Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: TechTalk on April 10, 2008, 05:07:48 pm

Title: Hasselblad H2F Update
Post by: TechTalk on April 10, 2008, 05:07:48 pm
As no one has posted this information yet, this is the latest information on the H2F from Hasselblad.

"H2F: Good news for Hasselblad users

We are just about to ship the first unit of our H2F cameras, and you will be very pleased to know that owners of Hasselblad's other digital products, such as the CF-39 and CF-22 will be able to benefit from full functionality of the H2F that including:

*Digital Auto Corrections (chromatic aberration, vignetting, distortion) are now available for the H2D as well as CF digital backs on the H2F.

*UltraFocus Level 1 opens H2D and CF digital backs to make use of the HCD28mm lens and the digital viewfinder HVD 90X.

*Owners of an H1/H2 and a CF product will be able to update their equipment to H2F capabilities so that they can also achieve the same benefits as mentioned above."

So, if you have invested in a Hasselblad CF or CFH back and an H1/H2 body in the past, you will be able to obtain most of the H3D features and functions soon. You can also purchase the new H2F as a spare body with all of the features noted above.

H2F Data Sheet Link (http://www.hasselbladusa.com/media/993448/uk_h2f_datasheet_v3.pdf)
Title: Hasselblad H2F Update
Post by: Dustbak on April 10, 2008, 05:39:29 pm
That certainly is good news. I also thought there is no need for a sync cable? The product sheet says it is compatible with CF & CHF backs so I guess that will be the case.

What type of battery will it be able to use besides the  123batteries, any idea? I assume the same as the H2?

The H2F was also supposed to be a cheaper alternative for the H2 it was replacing.

Now, if that is all the case. As a CF owner I will be very happy. Where can I order my spare body & HC28 and when can I have it?  
Title: Hasselblad H2F Update
Post by: paul_jones on April 10, 2008, 06:15:10 pm
will it mean that you can use 3rd party backs with the 28mm?
Title: Hasselblad H2F Update
Post by: david o on April 10, 2008, 06:18:52 pm
Hasselblad world champ flip over
Title: Hasselblad H2F Update
Post by: Nick-T on April 10, 2008, 07:59:20 pm
Quote
That certainly is good news. I also thought there is no need for a sync cable? The product sheet says it is compatible with CF & CHF backs so I guess that will be the case.

What type of battery will it be able to use besides the  123batteries, any idea? I assume the same as the H2?

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=188539\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Correct
No sync cable required with CF or CFH backs.
It will use the same rechargeable batts as the H2.

Nick-T
Title: Hasselblad H2F Update
Post by: TechTalk on April 10, 2008, 08:03:11 pm
Quote
That certainly is good news. I also thought there is no need for a sync cable? The product sheet says it is compatible with CF & CHF backs so I guess that will be the case.

What type of battery will it be able to use besides the  123batteries, any idea? I assume the same as the H2?

The H2F was also supposed to be a cheaper alternative for the H2 it was replacing.

Now, if that is all the case. As a CF owner I will be very happy. Where can I order my spare body & HC28 and when can I have it? 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=188539\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
CF & CFH backs fully interface with the H2F without a sync cable.

The batteries are interchangeable through the entire "H" series including the H2F. The rechargeable battery grip and charger are an accessory for the H2F and not included.

The H2F is less expensive than the H2. Medium-format cameras are not profitable to manufacture and sell, so the camera is simply a necessary expense for supporting digital products which are profitable. This is why Leaf and Sinar are providing financial and logistical support for Rollei and the reason Phase One finally woke up and realized free rides from camera makers were over and began propping up Mamiya with some badly needed investment. Simple business and economic realities, no nefarious plots or evil schemes despite the conspiratorial fantasies that many seem to enjoy.

You can certainly enjoy being a happy CF owner as Hasselblad continues to expand the capabilities and technology of their digital back and digital camera products. They have done a great job over the years of adding new features and improvements to existing products through free firmware upgrades.
Title: Hasselblad H2F Update
Post by: Nick-T on April 10, 2008, 08:05:09 pm
Quote
CF & CFH backs fully interface with the H2F without a sync cable.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=188573\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Bit slow on the reply there TechTalk....

Nick-T
Title: Hasselblad H2F Update
Post by: TechTalk on April 10, 2008, 08:06:07 pm
Quote
will it mean that you can use 3rd party backs with the 28mm?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=188548\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
No.
Title: Hasselblad H2F Update
Post by: TechTalk on April 10, 2008, 08:09:41 pm
Quote
Bit slow on the reply there TechTalk....

Nick-T
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=188574\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Sorry Nick. I tend to be long winded and overly verbose. Except in my last reply (sometimes one word is enough).

Hope you are doing well!
Title: Hasselblad H2F Update
Post by: BlasR on April 10, 2008, 08:09:46 pm
Tech,


that is great news,

thanks for the info.


BlasR
Title: Hasselblad H2F Update
Post by: TechTalk on April 10, 2008, 08:17:13 pm
Quote
Hasselblad world champ flip over
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=188551\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Maybe you could start a fund to sponsor them in the gymnastic competition in the upcoming olympics.

Just make sure that if you photograph their performance, you shoot it with a Hasselblad back.
Title: Hasselblad H2F Update
Post by: david o on April 11, 2008, 12:24:30 am
Quote
Maybe you could start a fund to sponsor them in the gymnastic competition in the upcoming olympics.

Just make sure that if you photograph their performance, you shoot it with a Hasselblad back.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=188578\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


not too much appelaing to me...
Title: Hasselblad H2F Update
Post by: Dustbak on April 11, 2008, 07:05:37 am
Not so sure if it is not so appealing.

A back that can be fit on virtually all systems by means of an adapter plate, 22MP under 10K euros (soon), possible multishot, the cheapest available MF 28mm, lens corrections, etc..

and now a body that is one of the cheapest of MF bodies (new).

I think Hasselblad is racking up a pretty good package by now. Sure you might not like the company or the way it has gotten there but have a good look at the product package and I think for a lot of people it is very appealing.


BTW, I have never felt a big urge to go H3, still not. I am glad it now appears Hasselblad is still committed to those that like to mess around and tweak with various camera systems.
Title: Hasselblad H2F Update
Post by: samuel_js on April 11, 2008, 08:54:03 am
Still don't get it....
So now you have to buy an identical camera (with another name) to benefit of these advantages like correction etc...
Isn't a firmware update the logical step? Cheaper, faster.....

Oh my....
Title: Hasselblad H2F Update
Post by: Dustbak on April 11, 2008, 09:05:17 am
Not sure how the upgrade from H2 to H2F is going, might very well be a firmware upgrade. I have just asked a dealer. Or maybe the H2F is really different than the H2, who knows.

Question is, what happens to the ability of using, lets say a Leaf on your H2 when you upgrade it to a H2F. I don't own a Leaf anymore but does make me wonder. Maybe I should sell my H2 and just get a new H2F (when they are available).

Yes, the move has been made to lock out 3rd party backs but that has been discussed at length and is quite obvious.

For CF owners, like me, this is a good development.
Title: Hasselblad H2F Update
Post by: david o on April 11, 2008, 11:50:09 am
Quote
Not so sure if it is not so appealing.

A back that can be fit on virtually all systems by means of an adapter plate, 22MP under 10K euros (soon), possible multishot, the cheapest available MF 28mm, lens corrections, etc..

and now a body that is one of the cheapest of MF bodies (new).

I think Hasselblad is racking up a pretty good package by now. Sure you might not like the company or the way it has gotten there but have a good look at the product package and I think for a lot of people it is very appealing.
BTW, I have never felt a big urge to go H3, still not. I am glad it now appears Hasselblad is still committed to those that like to mess around and tweak with various camera systems.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=188668\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


the idea to shoot gym is not... not sure I could, I found the news itself pretty good...
Title: Hasselblad H2F Update
Post by: j.miller on April 11, 2008, 11:54:32 am
It is my understanding you will see these H2F features available for the H2, via a firmware upgrade.

According to recent Hasselblad news.... "Owners of an H1/H2 and a CF product will be able to update their equipment to H2F capabilities so that they can also achieve the same benefits..."

As most are aware, there have been firmware feature improvements for the H2 over the last year. Those firmware upgrades, and future firmware upgrades are installed by use of a Hasselblad CF-Series back on the H2 body, and connected to the current version of FlexColor / Phocus.

Regards,

Jordan Miller

Quote
Not sure how the upgrade from H2 to H2F is going, might very well be a firmware upgrade. I have just asked a dealer. Or maybe the H2F is really different than the H2, who knows.

Question is, what happens to the ability of using, lets say a Leaf on your H2 when you upgrade it to a H2F. I don't own a Leaf anymore but does make me wonder. Maybe I should sell my H2 and just get a new H2F (when they are available).

Yes, the move has been made to lock out 3rd party backs but that has been discussed at length and is quite obvious.

For CF owners, like me, this is a good development.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=188699\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: Hasselblad H2F Update
Post by: Streetshooter on April 11, 2008, 01:59:55 pm
Quote
Not so sure if it is not so appealing.

A back that can be fit on virtually all systems by means of an adapter plate, 22MP under 10K euros (soon), possible multishot, the cheapest available MF 28mm, lens corrections, etc..

and now a body that is one of the cheapest of MF bodies (new).

I think Hasselblad is racking up a pretty good package by now. Sure you might not like the company or the way it has gotten there but have a good look at the product package and I think for a lot of people it is very appealing.
BTW, I have never felt a big urge to go H3, still not. I am glad it now appears Hasselblad is still committed to those that like to mess around and tweak with various camera systems.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=188668\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I assume once you upgrade to the new body/firmware you won't be able to use any other back other than a Hasselblad on it?  

Pete
Title: Hasselblad H2F Update
Post by: j.miller on April 11, 2008, 02:23:07 pm
Pete,
    I do not believe that will be the case with the H2. That would require not only adding features and functionality via new firmware, but also disabling existing hardware and firmware functionality.

However, with the H2F, it is not entirely clear exactly how it will "work" with digital backs other than Hasselblad's. One might assume it will require the use of a sync cable (body to back), which is what was mentioned when the H2F was originally announced.

Once the H2F is in the hands of dealers and end-users, I believe most of these questions and concerns will be addressed.

Regards,

Jordan Miller

Quote
I assume once you upgrade to the new body/firmware you won't be able to use any other back other than a Hasselblad on it?  

Pete
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=188771\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: Hasselblad H2F Update
Post by: klane on April 11, 2008, 03:12:00 pm
Quote
Not so sure if it is not so appealing.

A back that can be fit on virtually all systems by means of an adapter plate, 22MP under 10K euros (soon), possible multishot, the cheapest available MF 28mm, lens corrections, etc..

and now a body that is one of the cheapest of MF bodies (new).

I think Hasselblad is racking up a pretty good package by now. Sure you might not like the company or the way it has gotten there but have a good look at the product package and I think for a lot of people it is very appealing.
BTW, I have never felt a big urge to go H3, still not. I am glad it now appears Hasselblad is still committed to those that like to mess around and tweak with various camera systems.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=188668\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Is there an upcoming price drop on the CF 22 that has been announced or is this speculation?
Title: Hasselblad H2F Update
Post by: BJNY on April 21, 2008, 09:57:05 pm
:Thinking out loud:

Is the H2F usable as a back-up body for an H3DII-xxMP ?
Title: Hasselblad H2F Update
Post by: Nick-T on April 21, 2008, 10:28:19 pm
Yes, the only thing you will miss out on is ultra-focus (where the body is matched to the back). You can however order a spare body at the same time of your H3D purchase and get it matched for ultra focus if you wish.
Nick-T
Title: Hasselblad H2F Update
Post by: TechTalk on April 21, 2008, 10:37:12 pm
Quote
:Thinking out loud:

Is the H2F usable as a back-up body for an H3DII-xxMP ?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=191111\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
No, but you can buy spare bodies for H3D/H3DII models. H3D models have the body and electronics for focusing calibrated and matched to the individual back and CCD in order to achieve the tightest possible tolerance and accuracy in focusing. You can order a spare body at the time an H3DII system order is placed or order a spare body at a later date by returning the original system for calibration and matching with the spare body.

The H2F is a generic body made to +/- tolerance specifications to be mated to a generic film or digital back that is also made to +/- tolerance specifications.
Title: Hasselblad H2F Update
Post by: TechTalk on April 21, 2008, 11:02:27 pm
Quote
Still don't get it....
So now you have to buy an identical camera (with another name) to benefit of these advantages like correction etc...
Isn't a firmware update the logical step? Cheaper, faster.....

Oh my....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=188696\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Sorry that you "still don't get it" Samuel.

How did you read the original post and come to the conclusion "So now you have to buy an identical camera (with another name) to benefit of these advantages like correction etc..."??

To repeat...  UltraFocus Level 1 opens H2D and CF digital backs to make use of the HCD28mm lens and the digital viewfinder HVD 90X. Owners of an H1/H2 and a CF product will be able to update their equipment to H2F capabilities so that they can also achieve the same benefits as mentioned above.

The only thing that has not been made clear yet by Hasselblad, is which components can have these capabilities added by a user performed firmware update or which may require a Hasselblad Service Center software/electronics update. That they are intent on offering broader features and functions to existing Hasselblad H bodies and CF backs is clear.

I'm not clear what the intent of the laughing face emoticon was that you added to your post Samuel, but it's good to know that you're a happy guy. A number of Hasselblad H and CF owners are happy now too! Oh My!
Title: Hasselblad H2F Update
Post by: TechTalk on April 21, 2008, 11:15:42 pm
Quote
I assume once you upgrade to the new body/firmware you won't be able to use any other back other than a Hasselblad on it? 

Pete
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=188771\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
There is no logical reason to update an existing H1 or H2 to H2F capabilities unless you own a CF series back. No other backs (Phase One, Sinar, Leaf) have the ability to utilize the additional data provided by H2/H2F bodies to the CF backs.
Title: Hasselblad H2F Update
Post by: TechTalk on April 21, 2008, 11:41:30 pm
One additional note. The following new products are currently shipping:

- H3DII-39 MS (Multi-shot)
- H2F
- Global Image Locater GPS Accessory (compatible with H1/H2/H2F + CF Series, H2D, H3D & H3DII)
- Phocus Public Beta
Title: Hasselblad H2F Update
Post by: Shedaoshai on June 07, 2008, 05:16:43 pm
Quote
Once the H2F is in the hands of dealers and end-users, I believe most of these questions and concerns will be addressed.

Regards,

any news about if this upgrade h2 -> h2f enables use of the 28mm and 3rd party backs?
Title: Hasselblad H2F Update
Post by: TechTalk on June 07, 2008, 06:46:07 pm
Quote
any news about if this upgrade h2 -> h2f enables use of the 28mm and 3rd party backs?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200336\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
An H2F or an H1/H2 Conversion to H2F will allow the use of the 28mm HCD with any Hasselblad CF back. The H2F/H2F Conversion bodies also allow use of the higher magnification (3.1x vs 2.7x) HVD90x prism designed for digital sensor coverage. 3rd party backs are not supported.

To convert an H1 or H2 to H2F requires a change of circuit boards. This can be done by Hasselblad USA in New Jersey at a cost of $500.
Title: Hasselblad H2F Update
Post by: Dustbak on June 08, 2008, 02:11:21 am
So, that is already possible? Great. Mine will go out pretty soon.
Title: Hasselblad H2F Update
Post by: erick.boileau on June 08, 2008, 08:26:08 am
but it will not work with Phase One backs ....
Title: Hasselblad H2F Update
Post by: Dustbak on June 08, 2008, 09:08:20 am
I thought a converted H1/H2 to H2F would still work with 3rd party backs? Anyone of the dealers want to shine some light on that?
Title: Hasselblad H2F Update
Post by: Shedaoshai on June 10, 2008, 06:11:42 am
Quote
Anyone of the dealers want to shine some light on that?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200415\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

 please!
Title: Hasselblad H2F Update
Post by: eronald on June 10, 2008, 06:16:08 am
Quote
please!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200707\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Y'know what ? all these model specs are getting a bit complicated.
Hassy has put more stuff out there than any one else, pretending different names meant different intrinsic capabilities, now nobody can really tell.


Edmund
Title: Hasselblad H2F Update
Post by: samuel_js on June 10, 2008, 06:26:53 am
Quote
I thought a converted H1/H2 to H2F would still work with 3rd party backs? Anyone of the dealers want to shine some light on that?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200415\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The H2F will work with 3rd party backs, but with a sync cable between lens and back. The firmware won't allow electronic connection with other brands.
Title: Hasselblad H2F Update
Post by: Dustbak on June 10, 2008, 08:11:13 am
You don't understand what I am referring at. I now own a H2 which can be used with a 3rd party back without sync cable.

If I have it upgraded towards the H2F will I loose this ability and need a sync cable or will the upgraded H2 still be able to use a 3rd party back without sync cable.

I would like to know that.
Title: Hasselblad H2F Update
Post by: TechTalk on June 10, 2008, 11:54:25 am
Quote
If I have it upgraded towards the H2F will I loose this ability and need a sync cable or will the upgraded H2 still be able to use a 3rd party back without sync cable.

I would like to know that.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200718\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
If you want H1/H2 compatibility with 3rd party backs, you don't need to do anything--keep the H1/H2 as it is now. If you convert the camera to an H2F it will be an H2F--and will not have compatibility with 3rd party backs.
Title: Hasselblad H2F Update
Post by: James R Russell on June 10, 2008, 12:42:20 pm
Quote
If you want H1/H2 compatibility with 3rd party backs, you don't need to do anything--keep the H1/H2 as it is now. If you convert the camera to an H2F it will be an H2F--and will not have compatibility with 3rd party backs.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200746\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


You know Tech, your on to something.  I think Ford should adopt the Hasselblad plan, but just for the sake of good, sound, business profitability.

If you trade in your Taurus for a new one you get the same car, except if you want to tow a non ford branded bass boat you have to put the trailer hitch on the front of the car.



JR
Title: Hasselblad H2F Update
Post by: TechTalk on June 10, 2008, 02:04:16 pm
Quote
You know Tech, your on to something.  I think Ford should adopt the Hasselblad plan, but just for the sake of good, sound, business profitability.

If you trade in your Taurus for a new one you get the same car, except if you want to tow a non ford branded bass boat you have to put the trailer hitch on the front of the car.
JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200751\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I'm not on to anything. I'm just letting people know what options are available. Companies make choices regarding the products they offer. Consumers make choices regarding which products they buy. I don't make choices for either one. I can only decide how I invest my own money.

In the case of the H2F, Hasselblad is offering a body that works with any CF series back to provide capabilities an H1 or H2 can't provide because they lack the internal electronics hardware required. CF back owners have the options of: 1) keep what they have now, 2) add an H2F body for $3,250 and gain additional capabilities with their current back or 3) update their current body with a circuit board change for $500 to convert to an H2F. Those are the options that CF back owners have available.

Owners of 3rd party backs will want to keep their H1 or H2 as the H2F does not support 3rd party backs. As you may recall, Hasselblad has decided to withdraw from the market of making cameras to support 3rd party backs.

Hasselblad and all other medium-format camera makers have had three options to consider in recent years: 1) continue to lose money on cameras to support products from which they derive no revenue, 2) make cameras at a loss to support products which are profitable and from which they derive revenue or 3) withdraw from the medium-format camera business completely. Hasselblad chose option #2. They could have chosen both options #1 and #2, but decided the best long term business decision was #2. This drained fewer limited resources and made it clear to consumers, sooner rather than later, that option #1 would not (and could not) continue indefinitely.

Now to get back to your hypothetical car example, if Ford lost money on every car they made with a universal bumper hitch and made money on cars with a proprietary bumper hitch--I think investors would demand that they drop the first option and focus their efforts on the second. But then again, you may feel more charitable and generous with your investment money than other investors do.
Title: Hasselblad H2F Update
Post by: JDG on June 10, 2008, 04:39:38 pm
Quote
I'm not on to anything. I'm just letting people know what options are available. Companies make choices regarding the products they offer. Consumers make choices regarding which products they buy. I don't make choices for either one. I can only decide how I invest my own money.

In the case of the H2F, Hasselblad is offering a body that works with any CF series back to provide capabilities an H1 or H2 can't provide because they lack the internal electronics hardware required. CF back owners have the options of: 1) keep what they have now, 2) add an H2F body for $3,250 and gain additional capabilities with their current back or 3) update their current body with a circuit board change for $500 to convert to an H2F. Those are the options that CF back owners have available.

Owners of 3rd party backs will want to keep their H1 or H2 as the H2F does not support 3rd party backs. As you may recall, Hasselblad has decided to withdraw from the market of making cameras to support 3rd party backs.

Hasselblad and all other medium-format camera makers have had three options to consider in recent years: 1) continue to lose money on cameras to support products from which they derive no revenue, 2) make cameras at a loss to support products which are profitable and from which they derive revenue or 3) withdraw from the medium-format camera business completely. Hasselblad chose option #2. They could have chosen both options #1 and #2, but decided the best long term business decision was #2. This drained fewer limited resources and made it clear to consumers, sooner rather than later, that option #1 would not (and could not) continue indefinitely.

Now to get back to your hypothetical car example, if Ford lost money on every car they made with a universal bumper hitch and made money on cars with a proprietary bumper hitch--I think investors would demand that they drop the first option and focus their efforts on the second. But then again, you may feel more charitable and generous with your investment money than other investors do.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200771\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Lets think about this, if Hasselblad is losing money on every H2 they produce then the solution to that problem is not to invest more money in a product line that will sell in lower number.  This however is what they have done so they must still be taking a loss on every camera.  (if not even more of a loss)

Why not simply charge a price that makes the camera profitable?  The financial aspects of their decision to "upgrade" the camera do not seem to jive their publicly announced reasoning.  I can understand that they want to force people into their back system based on the popularity of their cameras, but that doesn't make it a good marketing move.

Honestly I feel bad for Hasselblad dealers who have to try and make it sound like a good decision on Hasselblad's part.
Title: Hasselblad H2F Update
Post by: TechTalk on June 10, 2008, 04:47:16 pm
Quote
Y'know what ? all these model specs are getting a bit complicated.
Hassy has put more stuff out there than any one else, pretending different names meant different intrinsic capabilities, now nobody can really tell.
Edmund
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200708\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
- H1= Original Model (could be converted to H2 with circuit board change for $500). Supports film magazines and any digital back made for H1/H2 (except CFH which gets power from H2 body). Discontinued and replaced by H2.

- H2 = New circuitry to allow power from camera battery grip to power CFH back and transfer lens data into image file for automatic lens correction with CF series backs (can be converted to H2F with circuit board change for $500). Supports film magazines and any digital back made for H1/H2. Discontinued and replaced by H2F.

- H2F = New circuitry to enable use of 28mm (with CF series backs) and HVD90x viewfinder. Supports CF series backs and film magazines. No support for 3rd party backs. Current product.

- H1D/H2D/H3D/H3DII = Sold as complete DSLR packages only. H3DII is current with 22mp/31mp/39mp/39mp multi-shot versions.
Title: Hasselblad H2F Update
Post by: Dustbak on June 10, 2008, 04:49:11 pm
Quote
If you want H1/H2 compatibility with 3rd party backs, you don't need to do anything--keep the H1/H2 as it is now. If you convert the camera to an H2F it will be an H2F--and will not have compatibility with 3rd party backs.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200746\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

In which case it might be a better option to sell my H2 and just get a H2F or even 2.

Do you happen to know whether the H2F functions with an Ixpress back? (like the 384 & 528, the other backs that I will be using)

If it doesn't I better get the H2F next to the H2 but than I cannot use the 28 with the 384/528  
Title: Hasselblad H2F Update
Post by: TechTalk on June 10, 2008, 05:16:19 pm
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Lets think about this, if Hasselblad is losing money on every H2 they produce then the solution to that problem is not to invest more money in a product line that will sell in lower number.  This however is what they have done so they must still be taking a loss on every camera.  (if not even more of a loss)

Why not simply charge a price that makes the camera profitable?  The financial aspects of their decision to "upgrade" the camera do not seem to jive their publicly announced reasoning.  I can understand that they want to force people into their back system based on the popularity of their cameras, but that doesn't make it a good marketing move.

Honestly I feel bad for Hasselblad dealers who have to try and make it sound like a good decision on Hasselblad's part.
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An explanation to your questions that I posted several months ago is below. Please note that this was prior to the announcement of a Phase One/Mamiya joint venture. This was posted after Mamiya had been sold off to Cosmos Scientific Systems, Inc. for less than a million dollars in cash (about $800,000 cash) along with an transfer of an undisclosed amount of debt...

I understand the emotional attachment that people have to the tools that they use to create art. Whether the endeavor is considered commercial illustration or fine-art, the tools are part of the creative process and to some degree become an extension of the artist. I also, therefore, understand when emotions affect our attitudes about the direction that we would like to see companies, that make those tools, take and our desires for the tools we'd like to see them produce. There are, unfortunately, some cold hard financial and business realities at work in the medium-format photography market that are simply unavoidable and just starting to be fully realized.

First, there is no longer any profit to be made selling medium-format SLR cameras to the public. There is no balance or combination of volume and price that will make them profitable to sell for any company. The simple notions that a company can either reduce prices to increase volume or raise prices to increase profit do not work for this market. The factors limiting demand and volume for medium-format cameras are not directly related to the cameras themselves. The primary factor limiting medium-format camera demand is the high cost of digital backs compared to 35mm digital SLRs.

There was a healthy medium-format camera market when film was king. In the past, the cost of a medium-format camera was thousands of dollars higher than 35mm, but the cost of using one (film and processing) was comparable. As demand for digital cameras replaced demand for film cameras, the cost for a medium-format camera was still thousands of dollars higher, but the cost of using one for digital capture added tens of thousands of dollars to the cost! Demand plummeted for medium-format and once healthy manufacturers went out of business and they all lost money at a rapid rate. This is where we are today. Hasselblad, Mamiya and Rollei are left standing in the medium-format SLR market. All have been through severe financial problems and have been sold, merged or reorganized multiple times.

If there is no longer any profit in making medium-format cameras, how will the remaining market be sustained? The answer is that the cameras left will have to be subsidized and supported by the sale of digital backs. Medium-format cameras and backs have reached a symbiotic financial and market relationship. The reality is, medium-format camera manufacturing can only be sustained by the sale of the digital backs that are connected to them–not electronically, but financially. The other half of this financial/market mutual reliance is that digital backs need cameras to connect to, in order to have a purpose and survive.

The real-world proof, of all of this, is the past and present market. Those medium-format SLR makes and models that did not also have the sale of digital backs as a source of income are gone. Those remaining are all tied financially to digital back sales of their own make or in the case of the Hy6/AFi to others. Hasselblad has already indicated that they have little or no interest in the business of selling cameras that are not mated to their digital backs. The Sinar/Rollei/Leaf Hy6/AFi would not exist without the financial support of R&D, sales, marketing and service that are provided by Jenoptik and Leaf. The maker, Franke & Heidecke, no longer has the financial resources and has positioned themselves as a contract manufacturer. Mamiya has had very severe financial losses and it remains to be seen if their late entry into the digital back/camera market can return them to a healthy financial state. The plans of Mamiya's new owner, Cosmos Scientific Systems, Inc., remain unknown. I've left out Pentax, as they are missing-in-action in the medium-format digital business and are in the process of being absorbed by Hoya.

Given the financial reality as it exists now, I would anticipate that in the future medium-format cameras will follow the trend of camera and back being designed, marketed and sold as integrated units. There is simply no financial justification to make a money losing product, unless it supports income from a profitable one.

The business of selling digital backs has not always been profitable either. You may be surprised to discover that Phase One has operated at a loss in many of the past years. The current CEO was appointed in 2001 and given the task of turning the company around. The group of banks and venture capital firms that owned Phase One wanted to groom the company to take public or sell. In 2002, Phase One diversified by becoming a software company with Capture One for Canon, Nikon and many other cameras. After years of losses, in 2003 Phase One turned a small profit. 2004 was considerably better and by 2005, the owners were actively trying to find a buyer when they could show three straight years of profit. No buyer was found and in 2006 the company was sold to four current Phase One managers (75% share) and a danish venture capital firm (25% share).

The problem facing Phase One is not their current financial position, but future direction. As a software company they are going to be hit hard in market share by Adobe and Apple. DxO will take another slice.

In digital backs, Phase One is not providing any financial incentive for a camera maker to provide them with a platform. If I have made anything clear with this lengthy post, I hope it is the business necessity that is now emerging for medium-format camera manufacture to be financially supported by the sale of digital backs. Being offended by this fact, will unfortunately not change it. You can expect that Phase One is now actively searching for a camera to be tied to not just electronically, but financially as well–for their own future prosperity. The days of medium-format cameras and digital backs that are connected electronically, but not financially, is rapidly coming to a close–not because any of these companies are uncaring, evil or have bad intentions, but to survive into the future.
Title: Hasselblad H2F Update
Post by: TechTalk on June 11, 2008, 02:45:27 am
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In which case it might be a better option to sell my H2 and just get a H2F or even 2.

Do you happen to know whether the H2F functions with an Ixpress back? (like the 384 & 528, the other backs that I will be using)

If it doesn't I better get the H2F next to the H2 but than I cannot use the 28 with the 384/528 
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Sorry to report that Ixpress backs prior to the CF series are not supported by the H2F. I was hoping that would be possible, but there is too great of a difference in the internal electronics of the original Ixpress series and the CF series of backs. The 28mm and HVD90x finder require the circuitry of the H3D/H3DII or H2F body to function.

There is still a lot of good usage and life left in the original Ixpress models and the multi-shot models have image quality that is still enviable by the current crop of single-shot models. For these models an H1 or H2 will be required and there is still good availability in the market (you can still find new H2 bodies with a bit of searching). Service and even replacement will be provided by Hasselblad for H1 and H2 bodies for several years to come, so your older Ixpress system has a lot of life left in it.

An H2F is essentially an H3D in terms of circuitry, but without the body/back matching and calibration for enhanced focusing accuracy. Because body and back are not calibrated to each other, you can use any CF series back or film back.
Title: Hasselblad H2F Update
Post by: Dustbak on June 11, 2008, 02:53:24 am
That is a pity  I somehow expected this would be the case. It means I really do have to upgrade to CF39MS eventually.

To continue using a CF39 and Ixpress are 2 tracks that are starting to become too much separated where having more than 1 CF makes sense from a backup point of view.

I agree about the quality of the Ixpress backs. I did clothing last week with the CF39 where I would normally use the 384 for this. Jeans with the CF39 is horrible whereas multishot with the 384 is stunning.
Title: Hasselblad H2F Update
Post by: TechTalk on June 11, 2008, 03:32:01 am
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That is a pity  I somehow expected this would be the case. It means I really do have to upgrade to CF39MS eventually.

To continue using a CF39 and Ixpress are 2 tracks that are starting to become too much separated where having more than 1 CF makes sense from a backup point of view.

I agree about the quality of the Ixpress backs. I did clothing last week with the CF39 where I would normally use the 384 for this. Jeans with the CF39 is horrible whereas multishot with the 384 is stunning.
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The difference in quality that multi-shot offers is always noticeable and as you've found, sometimes very noticeable! There's an obvious advantage to having 3 times more raw data and zero interpolation from a sensor. I'm sure that you're also well aware that all of the "H" cameras were designed for multi-shot and it shows. I'm happy that Sinar and Hasselblad have chosen to continue offering a variety of multi-shot options.

Best regards from another multi-shot fan.
Title: Hasselblad H2F Update
Post by: thsinar on June 11, 2008, 04:31:19 am
TechTalk,

it is effectively good to see from time to time that there are still photographers out who can appreciate and see the differences a multi-shot back's true colour and without interpolation can create with static subjects in opposition to a single-shot with 1/3 of the colour information.

Best regards,
Thierry

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The difference in quality that multi-shot offers is always noticeable and as you've found, sometimes very noticeable! There's an obvious advantage to having 3 times more raw data and zero interpolation from a sensor. I'm sure that you're also well aware that all of the "H" cameras were designed for multi-shot and it shows. I'm happy that Sinar and Hasselblad have chosen to continue offering a variety of multi-shot options.

Best regards from another multi-shot fan.
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Title: Hasselblad H2F Update
Post by: JTFOTO on June 17, 2008, 10:48:52 am
It still sucks that it won't support Leaf, Sinar and Phase backs!!!

It is ridiculous!!
Title: Hasselblad H2F Update
Post by: Studio12NYC on June 22, 2008, 11:43:17 am
agreed
Title: Hasselblad H2F Update
Post by: TechTalk on June 22, 2008, 06:25:14 pm
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It still sucks that it won't support Leaf, Sinar and Phase backs!!!

It is ridiculous!!
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agreed
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And Hasselblad should use their finances and resources to support other companies products because... ?