Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Digital Image Processing => Topic started by: kgross on March 18, 2008, 09:05:46 pm
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I'm looking for some feedback about what display to get, and so I want to ask you all, the "pros", what you think.
I'm considering either the Eizo color edge CG241w or the NEC LCD3090WQXi. I'm sure they are both great displays but I'd like to pick the best one. I live out in the middle of nowhere so I can't go someplace to directly compare them (the NEC hasn't even stated shipping yet). I've used an Eizo color edge at my office and have been quite impressed, but I've never used an NEC so I don't know what to think.
I know the displays are slightly different beasts (24" vs 30", 1920x1200 vs. 2560x1600 etc.), but they are priced about the same. Also, both have internal hardware color calibration features, which ought to be better than calibrating the color on the graphics card, right? Per pixel the NEC is a better deal, so is the Eizo worth it? The 30" Eizo is priced out of my league, so that's not an option.
I'll primarily be using the display for image processing stuff, and the occasional movie. I do HDR panoramic photography (32-bit per channel 12000x6000 pixel images), and so both have merits. The two most important things to me are the accuracy of the color and the size.
Does the Eizo really have significantly better color? The Eizo has 12-bit look-up tables and 16-bit internal processing but the NEC also has 12-bit LUTs ( I don't know about the processing) and they both claim to have a color gamut that covers nearly 100% of adobe rgb). The NEC is much larger (both in size and pixels), which would be nice for viewing/editing those monster-sized panoramas.
What do you Eizo fans think? How about you NEC fans? Any feedback would be appreciated.
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I've been using an Eizo ColorEdge CE240W for about a year. I love it! The hardware color calibration routine is awesome and easy to do. I use an EyeOne which is compatible with Eizo's color calibration software.
I'm looking forward to buying the 30" version once the prices drop a bit.
Bud James
North Wales, PA
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Since the NEC isn't out, the question can't be answered. You can run out and get the Eizo, probably spend a LOT more money but, no one yet can tell you if the money is well spent or not. You'll just have to wait for the NEC to ship or compare the 2690 to your choices.
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Hi, all -- just to throw another one into the equation, I'm considering both the Eizo CG 241 and the Samsung XL 24 (both a bit over 2000). Earlier, I was thinking the NEC 2690 WUXI SV might be a cheaper alternative, but it appears as if the luminance values may need to be at least 130 and probably 150 plus for good calibration, from what I've been reading, and even then there's the issue of calibrating w/out being restricted to the SV software.
In my case my primary purpose is to print to an HP 9180Pro (mostly landscapes but with a variety of subjects ranging from architecture to people as well) in a color managed environment under Solux 4700 K lighting for proofs. The folks over at Color Eyes Pro (that's what I use for calibration with an XRite DTP-94) monitor seem very excited about the new Samsung XL series, and I'm now favoring the XL 24 over the Eizo CG241 and the substantially lower priced NEC 2690WUXI SV. I do want the wider color gamut to see if I can effectively carry RGB gamut colors over onto the printer. For me, the printing is what it's all about. Any reactions (or maybe it's better to say predictions) concerning the XL 24 (ie, do people think it's a definite better bet than the NECs and Eizos in that price range ($2200), especially versus the CG 241? I've read Andrew's erudite comments about the problematic nature of an 8-bit pipeline with a wide-gamut display but think I've come to the conclusion that it will be best for me, especially as I'll be running it beside a conventional "sRGB" LCD display in dual display configuration. Any comments are appreciated, and I assume they may shed light on the original post as well.
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Earlier, I was thinking the NEC 2690 WUXI SV might be a cheaper alternative, but it appears as if the luminance values may need to be at least 130 and probably 150 plus for good calibration, from what I've been reading, and even then there's the issue of calibrating w/out being restricted to the SV software.
This is a problem how?
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I'm not sure that it will be a problem, quite honestly. I haven't figured out the exact luminance of my recently set up viewing situation yet (4 solux 50 watt 4700 K bulbs in a track about 6 feet above the viewing area). The luminance of the proofing area could be adjusted via the wattage plus adding or subtracting bulbs, as I work alone in my office w a window that can be blacked out. I'm going by the theory that greater flexibility in being able to adjust the display luminance down toward 100/110 is a good thing. It sounds as if you are impressed by the NEC 2690 WUXI SV (by inference and what I recall of your many postings)? If you believe it's as good or better a bet than the new LED Samsungs are likely to be, I'm certainly all ears and ready to be educated. Many thanks. -- Ian H.
PS: I guess I have the impression that the Color Eyes Display Pro software is more powerful and flexible than the SV but am hampered in comparing them by having the former and not the latter.
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PS: I guess I have the impression that the Color Eyes Display Pro software is more powerful and flexible than the SV but am hampered in comparing them by having the former and not the latter.
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Doubt it (here comes Jack). When the display manufacturer builds software to drive their own software, they usually have far less issues compared to building software that controls their hardware.
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Doubt it (here comes Jack). When the display manufacturer builds software to drive their own software, they usually have far less issues compared to building software that controls their hardware.
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Wow, you pull that out of an NEC marketing piece? If this were true Lacie would be at the top of the heap. They've been doing it longer than anybody. But alas I have not seen them mentioned here in ages. There are countless examples of third party companies making better software. Nikon scanners and Silverfast immediately comes to mind. Eizo Color Navigator and Coloreyes is another good example for many customers. Third party software support for many cameras makes me wonder why photographers aren't screaming about NEC. They certainly would if Nikon locked everyone out.
Monitor manufacturers provide us with sdks so we know how to talk to their displays. Some of them actually adhere to the ddc protocol so no sdk is required, few unfortunately. There are companies, like ICS who have banked their entire survival on monitor accuracy for soft proofing. It's possible that they may know far more about calibrating displays than a monitor manufacturer who's primary task is building monitors. Again the camera example is relevant. The use of ACR versus Canon DPP is I imagine 75%-25% if it's even that close.
I think we could probably find more examples of third party solutions being adopted in the Photo world than manufacturer based solutions.
I will restate my concerns with proprietary monitor calibration just so we're all clear and Andrew doesn't spin this into money.
First lets start with DNG. The argument here is partially against camera manufacturers having secret sauce that might leave you hanging if the manufacturer decided to stop doing what their doing. This could easily occur with monitors as well.
Second the proprietary choice leaves users with no way to really confirm which solution is actually better. How can the consumer possibly make an informed choice.
Third an existing user of a particular product may not find having to use multiple solutions a positive thing. I have said many times that this reason alone is a good one for manufacturers to look closely at. Large customers using flexible solutions are most likely not going to buy into NEC if they are forced to use two monitor calibration solutions instead of one. I have a fair amount of experience with this item, trust me it's true.
I don't think this is a good thing for the consumer the manufacturer or the industry. Just to shunt this one away, I don't think this has much impact on Coloreyes at all.
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Wow, you pull that out of an NEC marketing piece?
No need (if its even there). I own the product, and many others.
If this were true Lacie would be at the top of the heap. They've been doing it longer than anybody.
Longer? Who said anything about longevity (oh, you're doing that). Has nothing to do with the points made.
But alas I have not seen them mentioned here in ages. There are countless examples of third party companies making better software.
Indeed there are. And cases where it's not the case. Lets get specific, in this case SpectraView driving the NEC units. If you have some metric (not the marketing stuff you guys use in terms of "accuracy", lets not go down that rabbit hole again, its embarrassing for you), that you drive the NEC "better" than their product, bring it on.
Monitor manufacturers provide us with sdks so we know how to talk to their displays.
And some don't. And that has to be a pisser for you.
Some of them actually adhere to the ddc protocol so no sdk is required, few unfortunately. There are companies, like ICS who have banked their entire survival on monitor accuracy for soft proofing.
Survival? Sounds scary.
It's possible that they may know far more about calibrating displays than a monitor manufacturer who's primary task is building monitors.
Yes its possible. And it's possible they know more and do a lot better job (lets see, you recall Pressview, Barco Reverence V and Sony Artisan)? Add NEC to the group.
I will restate my concerns with proprietary monitor calibration just so we're all clear and Andrew doesn't spin this into money.
So in terms of money and spinning, that you don't have the ability to drive the NEC doesn't have bearing on your disappointment in proprietary monitor calibration?
First lets start with DNG. The argument here is partially against camera manufacturers having secret sauce that might leave you hanging if the manufacturer decided to stop doing what their doing. This could easily occur with monitors as well.
So what's the lifespan of an archived Raw image and the lifespan of a display? Just a bit of a difference? No, if I still had a Radius Pressview, one I had 10 years ago, I could not drive the software under OS X. But then I'd be hard pressed to be using a 10+ year old CRT anyway. My 10 year old Raw file? Yes, I do want access to that data today and in 10 years. Bad analogy Jack!
Second the proprietary choice leaves users with no way to really confirm which solution is actually better.
NOT if you use the silly accuracy yardstick you use. Its quite easy to do if you have the proper tools (a reference grade spectroradiometer and proper software).
How can the consumer possibly make an informed choice.
One thing they can do is read outside reviews conducted by people who know how to test these things, instead of the marketing hype of the manufacturer (in this case, even someone with a 3rd party software solution).
I don't think this has much impact on Coloreyes at all.
I'd hope so.
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In any event, you're not forced to use the NEC software to profile the NEC. I did my 2090uxi very nicely with the Eye One software until I got Spectraview. I like Spectraview much better, not only for the fact that it addresses the monitor's 12-bit LUTs directly, but also for its ease of use.
Nill
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www.toulme.net
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In any event, you're not forced to use the NEC software to profile the NEC. I did my 2090uxi very nicely with the Eye One software until I got Spectraview. I like Spectraview much better, not only for the fact that it addresses the monitor's 12-bit LUTs directly, but also for its ease of use.
Nill
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www.toulme.net
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Absolutely! I've also used EyeOne Match and even the new beta colorimunki software with that hardware product on the NEC. You're not forced to use the NEC software but considering the cost (a mere $99) and better, their bundle with a colorimeter if you don't have one, its a screaming deal. The NEC software is also far, far easier to use once you setup the target calibration(s) you wish. Yes, you can switch on the fly from multiple calibration and profiles which is, like the Artisan software, very useful.
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How can the consumer possibly make an informed choice?
This consumer spent $80 to listen to Dr. Karl Lang and Chris Murphy at their Color Management seminar at PhotoPlusExpo. There, Dr. Lang said his tests concluded that SpectraView software, when used on NEC monitors, out-peformed third party results. Call me a sucker for a cute geek in a ponytail jumping for joy but I'll follow Dr. Lang to the ends of Delta e.
They're not as cool looking as Apple Cinema Displays but I'll take performance over style any day (within limits). Ever since I've switched to NEC, I couldn't be happier with my monitor choice, its performance, its warranty, and the money I saved. I own SpectraView and the original Monaco Optix xr Pro. This consumer is armed and ready for anything.
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Call me a sucker for a cute geek in a ponytail jumping for joy but I'll follow Dr. Lang to the ends of Delta e.
He's single!
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Of course NEC displays work best with Spectraview. There is no way anyone can make a fair comparison since you can not compare apples with apples. Since no one but NEC can address the internal monitor lut it's a pretty sure bet they'll win every time. So let us not overly guild the lilly. They have prevented a fair comparison for what ever reason good or bad. There is really no way to know if any third party solution might be better.
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Of course NEC displays work best with Spectraview. There is no way anyone can make a fair comparison since you can not compare apples with apples.
Sure you can. You can use any number of other software products to compare. Now you're saying, of course NEC does it best (which I also believe is true). So you're now saying, the proprietary solution is best (I don't know how you personally made this discovery), but we all know there are a multitude of products and instruments besides SpectraView one can use. So you're saying that unless NEC opens an SDK for you, this is totally unfair?
NEC is best but despite the fact other products can calibrate it, its not a fair comparison. That makes no sense. If you simply could not use any other product to calibrate the unit, you'd have some grounds here but we all know, that's not the case.
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Of course NEC displays work best with Spectraview. There is no way anyone can make a fair comparison since you can not compare apples with apples. Since no one but NEC can address the internal monitor lut it's a pretty sure bet they'll win every time. So let us not overly guild the lilly. They have prevented a fair comparison for what ever reason good or bad. There is really no way to know if any third party solution might be better.
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In a matter of sense, SV profiler is a third party solution. It was developed by basICColor, and then only badged "NEC Spectraview profiler". You can buy it separetly, and, for example, "adress the internal monitor LUT" and hardware calibrate Eizo CE/CG monitor, some say it gives better results than Eizo's Color Navigator.
I suspect, that Quato's profiler is also a basICColor profiler, it has very familiar functions. So probably there are 3 professional graphics monitors manufacturers on the market (Eizo, Nec, Quato), and it seems that 2 of them use basICColor product (I ignore LaCie, it's NEC with LaCie sticker on it). Something tells me, that clever Germans just made a good product...
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In a matter of sense, SV profiler is a third party solution. It was developed by basICColor, and then only badged "NEC Spectraview profiler".
In Europe yes, in the states, no. SpectraView is all NEC's baby. Two totally different software packages.
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Cut the bull would ya. If you can not address the internal lut you can not make as good a profile particularly if the target values are a reach from the monitor's default state. This has nothing to do with Coloreyes. This is a FACT. How can you possibly compare 4 or 5 software solutions when only one has access to all the tools. It does not make any sense at all. You are not comparing apples with apples plain and simple. You can claim the the NEC software does the best job under these limited conditions but you can't say it is as good as it could be because you don't know and can't find out.
Or we could look at it this way. Of course it's better, everyone else has one hand tied behind their backs.
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There's one very good reason to use third-party software, namely calibrating multi-head systems.
And a good reason not to use ColorEyes' excellent product, namely that they aren't talking to me, ever since I said their evaluation module was not necessarily significant.
Edmund
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Cut the bull would ya.
The pot calling the kettle black I say....
If you can not address the internal lut you can not make as good a profile particularly if the target values are a reach from the monitor's default state.
Apparently there's another product from our friends in Europe who do.
And I would say that depending on the native state, you can do a valid comparison when the LUTs are not used. Is having high bit LUT useful outside that state? Yes. And the software I said does a better job than yours, something you've agreed to above is the point here.
This has nothing to do with Coloreyes. This is a FACT. How can you possibly compare 4 or 5 software solutions when only one has access to all the tools.
Unfair advantage, maybe. But we can and should be able to lump your software product with the rest and if the proprietary solutions are better, well end of story. I guess this might be a reason you have a distaste for the NEC product. And its a reason I stated, and you agreed that SpectraView software IS what users should be driving this display with.
You can claim the the NEC software does the best job under these limited conditions but you can't say it is as good as it could be because you don't know and can't find out.
No I can and I have. Even you agreed its better.
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There's one very good reason to use third-party software, namely calibrating multi-head systems.
And a good reason not to use ColorEyes' excellent product, namely that they aren't talking to me, ever since I said their evaluation module was not necessarily significant.
Edmund
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Nothing NEC has done stops you from doing this. One could suggest multiple NEC reference displays would be a far better solution (and cost effective when you look at the price difference in the two software products being discussed) than mix and match. But I can see why that's necessary and in fact, I have one NEC, one Apple Cinema, an iMac and a Laptop and I too have to use two solutions. But the facts are clear to my eye, of all the above units, the ONE I go to for the best color appearance is the NEC. Oh, I also have that old Artisan which I can't seem to part with, it too uses a proprietary solution, it doesn't match the NEC (it can't) and it works quite well. That's my last CRT and I suspect it will go away some time soon. The NEC and Artisan are working on the same system FWIW.
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Actually no I did not agree it is better. I did not say one way or the other what i thought about it. I own one too. You need to stop twisting the point as you always do. The statement was made that Spectraview worked better than the eye One software. My point...............DUH, how could it not. And that's all there is to it.
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... Since no one but NEC can address the internal monitor lut it's a pretty sure bet they'll win every time. So let us not overly guild the lilly. They have prevented a fair comparison for what ever reason good or bad. There is really no way to know if any third party solution might be better.
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What prevents a third party solution from addressing the NEC's internal LUTs?
Nill
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www.toulme.net
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Actually no I did not agree it is better.
Oh I must have misunderstood this:
Of course NEC displays work best with Spectraview.
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Oh I must have misunderstood this:
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Its an interesting trend, expressed in this post. We're talking about some display technology, in this case the NEC SpectraView and the words "ColorEyes" appears and along comes Jack (he must be searching).
The original post referencing this is:
PS: I guess I have the impression that the Color Eyes Display Pro software is more powerful and flexible than the SV but am hampered in comparing them by having the former and not the latter.
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I pointed out I didn't believe that was the case, then Jack comes along with such well behaved digs as:
Wow, you pull that out of an NEC marketing piece?
I will restate my concerns with proprietary monitor calibration just so we're all clear and Andrew doesn't spin this into money.
Cut the bull would ya.
Actually no I did not agree it is better.
Of course he did agree its better (after being caught, no word which is probably a good thing).
In times where we hear about transparency, it might not at all be obvious to all readers, but Jack (who's user profile and signature is copiously missing info) is in fact associated (owns? Is the president?) of Integrated Color, the MAKERS of ColorEyes:
[a href=\"http://www.integrated-color.com/contact/index.html]http://www.integrated-color.com/contact/index.html[/url]
Oh and Jack, I don't sell any hardware, I've never received a dime from NEC, my user profile is, as far as I'm aware, is pretty transparent although I'm sure you'll find a way to spin this into money....
Now, getting back to the topic.
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Gentleman (Jack and Andrew),
Please take your private dispute off line.
Thanks,
Michael
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I have recently bought a Eizo CE210W and I am very happy with it. I had a proffessional calibrating the monitor and the guy was surprised about the results of the monitor. He had never seen an LCD screen with such a good black level and such accurate colors (even before calibration). He was also suprised of the way he was able to fine-tune the colors, allowing very small adjustment increments and therefore making it possible to get the calibration almost spot on.
He told me it was a very good purchase, so I guess the CG241 will be about the same, if not better.
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I've been using the Eizo ColorEdge CE240W for about a year now attached to my MacPro 8-core (now running Leopard since introduction day). I keep it calibrated using ColorEdge's software and an EyeOne Display2 colorimeter.
I am very happy with the results. The display is very evenly lit and matches the output from my Epson R2400 using epson-supplied paper profiles very well. I also use ImagePrint 7 with their excellent profiles. The end results are stunning.
Now I'm waiting for either Apple to revamp their 30" Cinema display or for Eizo's new 30" ColorEdge display to drop in price (the better choice I think).
Cheers.
Bud James
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I'll just observe that what matters to most of us is what's on the market now (or coming very soon), not what might be achieved if a third party software company had access to an NEC developers' kit.
I've been using the NEC 2690 for two months now. I purchased it bare at first, with no calibration software, and started using it with my Spyder2Pro setup. I was very pleased with the results compared to my two year old Apple 23" display. Colors were more even in their saturation and lulminance, corner to corner. I was pretty pleased.
After reading threads like these for a while, however, I couldn't leave well enough alone, so I bought the Spectraview software and colorimeter (which at the time was on sale).
Well...
The difference is just startling. It's as if I clicked on a neutral gray card and a color cast came off the screen. The colors all just popped where they should pop and receded to neutral where they should be neutral. I've been calibrating digital displays for at least six or seven years now and haven't seen an improvement like this - it's a real breakthrough.
Most important, when I use the display in a color managed workflow that includes soft proofing, I am thrilled with the match between screen and paper. It can't be 100% of course, as transmitted light and reflected light are inherently different. But this is a leap ahead of the Apple/Spyder technology many of us have been using for a long time.
One feature I quite like is the ease of shifting among personally created calibration levels: I like to use a reduced brightness level for "general" computing - internet browsing, wordprocessing, etc. For Photoshop and related work, I shift up to a brighter level that I find a little more accurate for critical work at the extremems. Very nice.
Is the Eizo better? I don't know; it's probably as good from what I hear, but their products are much more expensive. On the other hand, if Andrew says the NEC is close enough, I'll take his word for it. I attended one of his "advanced" color management lectures back in the days of Photoshop 5 or 6 (can't remember which) and I know he's got no axe to grind. He's universally recognized as a neutral expert in color management, and he's recommending the less expensive device!
So if you get the NEC, buy the whole package (software and hardware) and relax for the next number of years, till the next breakthrough.
My two cents, as they say.
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A lot of us (myself, Karl Lang, Chris Murphy to name a few) would tell you about Eizo if they would send them upon request. They appear to ignore the need to seed people test units. I suspect the photo space is pretty small and not really on their radar. They have bigger fish (the medical industry) to fry. IF the units warrant the additional price, I don't know that Eizo has done much to prove why.
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The difference is just startling. It's as if I clicked on a neutral gray card and a color cast came off the screen. The colors all just popped where they should pop and receded to neutral where they should be neutral. I've been calibrating digital displays for at least six or seven years now and haven't seen an improvement like this - it's a real breakthrough.
Most important, when I use the display in a color managed workflow that includes soft proofing, I am thrilled with the match between screen and paper. It can't be 100% of course, as transmitted light and reflected light are inherently different. But this is a leap ahead of the Apple/Spyder technology many of us have been using for a long time.
Well said. This pretty much sums up my experience and satisfaction with the 2690WUXi SV.
Now I'm waiting for either Apple to revamp their 30" Cinema display...
So what's up with Apple? The wide gamut LCDs have been out for well over a year now and their prices have dropped down out of the unobtanium range (certainly at least for pros). Aside from the LED laptop screen, Apple's flat panel product line now seems to be lagging noticeably.
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Well said. This pretty much sums up my experience and satisfaction with the 2690WUXi SV.
So what's up with Apple? The wide gamut LCDs have been out for well over a year now and their prices have dropped down out of the unobtanium range (certainly at least for pros). Aside from the LED laptop screen, Apple's flat panel product line now seems to be lagging noticeably.
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Apple are going lower and lower in display quality.
As for Eizo,it's now pretty much pick and hope in their product line, some of the models are not that good, some are very good.
Regarding the calibrators for those wide-gamut displays, if using a colorimeter, I think I would prefer to use a bundled instrument -which might be 'tuned', rather than the stock Xrite model.
Edmund
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I've been using an Eizo CG211 for a couple of months now. It's expensive. I expect it to last five years. The color and luminance are spot-on accurate. Soft proofing for "pleasing color" is always right on. For soft proofing "accurate color" such as fine art repro, it's about as good as it gets. Instead of making three or four test prints, I now get by with one or two. I haven't seen a high-end NEC monitor up close, and I guess the 2690WUXi SV is about half of the price of the Eizo. But, if you are using a monitor every day, and it's the nerve center of all post-production decision-making, a thousand dollars isn't really much of a premium.
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I've been using an Eizo CG211 for a couple of months now. It's expensive. I expect it to last five years. The color and luminance are spot-on accurate. Soft proofing for "pleasing color" is always right on. For soft proofing "accurate color" such as fine art repro, it's about as good as it gets. Instead of making three or four test prints, I now get by with one or two. I haven't seen a high-end NEC monitor up close, and I guess the 2690WUXi SV is about half of the price of the Eizo. But, if you are using a monitor every day, and it's the nerve center of all post-production decision-making, a thousand dollars isn't really much of a premium.
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Yes, the CG211 is about as good as you can get in the sRGB-gamut range. This is the top of Eizo's most mature product line.
Edmund.
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> Regarding the calibrators for those wide-gamut displays, if using a colorimeter, I think I would prefer to use a bundled instrument -which might be 'tuned', rather than the stock Xrite model.
That's one approach. Correct me if I'm wrong, but these 'tuned' colorimeters are generally OEMed versions that include custom calibration/correction matrices.
EIZO (for their CG line AFAIK) and Quato include such custom calibration matrices for each supported (general purpose) measuring device in their software.
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EIZO (for their CG line AFAIK) and Quato include such custom calibration matrices for each supported (general purpose) measuring device in their software.
That's interesting, but it appears not all brands can be relied on in this regard. For example, NEC's SpectraView software, which can be purchased separately from its hardware, and which will work fine with many colorimeters out there, specifically warns the user not to rely on the Spyder 2, one of the most popular pieces in the marketplace, when running SV on wide gamut displays.
So if you do use someone else's hardware, at least check with the display manufacturer first, and see if their support folks have any comments about it.
Or just buy the matching hardware and worry about something else.
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> but it appears not all brands can be relied on in this regard.
Afaik *only* EIZO and Quato do this.
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Or just buy the matching hardware and worry about something else.
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I agree, getting the bundle instrument is strongly recommended if you don't own a spectro (not a colorimeter) already.
The argument militating for colorimeters and against spectros against spectros used to be the shadow noise, now the spikes of some monitor filters are also rumored to be a potential problem.
This is a bit exasperating just now as spectros are coming down in price -ColorMunki- and third party spectro-on-a-chip technology is apearing.
Anyway, I'd advise anybody here who is serious about color to get an i1Pro or ColorMunki spectro. Much more useful than a colorimeter, and still safer against obsolescence.
Edmund
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Well, I got the LCD2690WUXi-BK and it easily goes down to 100cdm. The profile looks pretty good compared to my CG19 when profiled with with the i1 pro and Eye-One Match. Both monitors have a little color banding in gray gradients with the i1 software. Of course the Eizo looks much nicer with the Color Navigator software. The gradients become much smoother and more neutral. I don't have the NEC software, but I expect the same will be true with the 2690 when that software arrives. I don't work at 100cdm but just wanted to see how low it would go. The lowest luminance number I got was 50cdm. The 100cdm profile does not appear to have any problems. I am a bit surprised at all the reports of this monitor's minimum luminance being 130cdm.
Can anyone tell me how to adjust the Colorcomp level? It goes from a setting of 1 up to 5 and I can't see what's changing.
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I am new to this forum, but I have pretty extensive digital and color photography and printing experience.
I just got a NEC 2690 with Spectraview II a few days ago. I'll echo the other reports. It looks fantastic. I tried profiling it at 50 cd/m2 and it seemed to be fine. Although awful dim for my use. So I also don't know why the original poster thought it had to be above 130. That is around the brightness I use. Although I bet many of my clients have their monitors set much brighter.
One thing I really like about it is I can use it as an extended gamut monitor for my photo work, and then quickly switch it to sRGB mode for software that isn't color managed. Right now I'm trying to use the monitor to see how much color I lose (if any) going from Adobe RGB to sRGB on various types of photos. A lot of my clients (even ad agencies) do not understand color management, so I prefer to keep it simple for them and provide sRGB files.
I do wonder how all of this extended gamut stuff will shake out. It seems we are very early in the process. I can't say that wider than sRGB gamut (93% of Adobe RGB they say) was a major feature for me at this time. But I am exploring its usefulness.
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One thing I really like about it is I can use it as an extended gamut monitor for my photo work, and then quickly switch it to sRGB mode for software that isn't color managed.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=190713\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Alan:
How easy is it to switch into the sRGB mode? Do you do this through the Spectraview software? Through the monitor's control button buttons? When in sRGB mode, is that like using a non wide gamut monitor?
Sounds like 2 for the price of 1.
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You can switch between wide gamut and sRGB using the monitor's control buttons.
There are several selections - for sRGB, native, custom, and presets.
There is also NEC NaViSet software that I downloaded that might let you do this via the keyboard but I haven't looked at it yet. Anway, it takes just a few seconds to do it via the control buttons and is clear and easy.
Yes it is like 2 for one. I don't think I'd be happy with a monitor that only works in wide gamut because most programs are not color aware and normal icons and sRGB photos viewed in wide gamut look very punchy.
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The sRGB switch isn't really providing you an sRGB display (it may match closer to an older such unit). There's no way to alter the actual chromaticity of the unit. And I don't believe when you do this you're getting a calibrated/profiled sRGB device (you can't calibrate it in this state).
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The sRGB switch isn't really providing you an sRGB display (it may match closer to an older such unit). There's no way to alter the actual chromaticity of the unit. And I don't believe when you do this you're getting a calibrated/profiled sRGB device (you can't calibrate it in this state).
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=190765\")
I believe that sRGB mode is factory set and can't be altered via calibration. Although I will say that sRGB images viewed casually in this way look about the same to me as in the calibrated full gamut mode when using color managed software.
But that is not the point. I use the calibrated high gamut mode for my critical photo work and only go to sRGB mode for surfing the web, using other programs, etc.
And I think having even an uncalibrated sRGB mode may be fine to simulate how a lot of my clients and web viewers will actually see the images.
I found this link with an explanation from NEC:
[a href=\"http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1006&message=27593688]http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp...essage=27593688[/url]
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But that is not the point. I use the calibrated high gamut mode for my critical photo work and only go to sRGB mode for surfing the web, using other programs, etc.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=190766\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
True and for some its useful. Even more will be a display technology that actually allows the ability to alter the true chromaticity. By then of course, sRGB may go the way of the dodo bird (if we're lucky).
The other issue is the granularity of editing on a high gamut display that's been discussed here in the past. If you're working on very subtle imagery that falls within the sRGB gamut, setting this wide gamut display into "sRGB" doesn't solve that issue whereby the differences in deltaE between two Neighbor levels is still farther than on a true sRGB device.
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The other issue is the granularity of editing on a high gamut display that's been discussed here in the past. If you're working on very subtle imagery that falls within the sRGB gamut, setting this wide gamut display into "sRGB" doesn't solve that issue whereby the differences in deltaE between two Neighbor levels is still farther than on a true sRGB device.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=190768\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I haven't seen this as a problem and likely never will. I shoot mostly architectural interiors and exteriors. When editing images, I am just trying to get an overall nice look. There is no way I actually know exactly what the colors of the scene are once I leave. I am just relying on my monitor calibration, white balance and overall methodolgy to establish a standard and maintain consistency.
Eventually all of this high gamut and color management will work out. I've got to say that everything seems fine for me at this point. I do have a 10 bit per color graphics card but can't make use of it yet. (And the NEC 2690 is just 8 bits as is the software.)
I used to share a studio with a photographer who did exacting digital product photography. He had a prepress expert who would convert images to CMYK and then fine tune the colors by looking at the CMYK numbers and comparing them to the actual products. They had a high end CRT monitor but he didn't rely on it at all. I really don't know how he did it. And Robert Bagby, my instructor for color printing at RIT somehow could look at a color negative and tell you how to print it.
Any opinion on scRGB?
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.... (And the NEC 2690 is just 8 bits as it the software.) ...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=190777\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
My understanding is that the 2690 (like all the 90uxi series) has 12-bit internal LUTs which are addressed directly by the Spectraview software.
Nill
~~
www.toulme.net
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I haven't seen this as a problem and likely never will. I shoot mostly architectural interiors and exteriors. When editing images, I am just trying to get an overall nice look. There is no way I actually know exactly what the colors of the scene are once I leave.
Its not necessarily the colors of the scene (that's scene referred and by the time you end up editing, its output referred). More so the gamut of the output referred data. If it falls within sRGB and you need to do very subtle editing, its simply more difficult to see these areas on a wider gamut display.
It may not at all be an issue for some. But it can be for others. IOW, a wide gamut display has significant advantages to those working with wider gamut images (wider than sRGB) but could equally be an issue for those working with lower gamut images doing very subtle color work. There's no free lunch with the current technology.
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I used to share a studio with a photographer who did exacting digital product photography. He had a prepress expert who would convert images to CMYK and then fine tune the colors by looking at the CMYK numbers and comparing them to the actual products.
Any opinion on scRGB?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=190777\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
UNLESS the document is going out to that CMYK device, this is a pretty stupid idea!
I don't know too many color geeks I respect who think we need yet another RGB working space. So scRGB is not anything to worry about, especially since its not installed by Adobe applications for one.
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Apple are going lower and lower in display quality.
As for Eizo,it's now pretty much pick and hope in their product line, some of the models are not that good, some are very good.
Regarding the calibrators for those wide-gamut displays, if using a colorimeter, I think I would prefer to use a bundled instrument -which might be 'tuned', rather than the stock Xrite model.
Edmund
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=187483\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I just bought a NEC LCD 2690WUXi monitor and the Spectraview2 software with the NEC Eye one colorometer.I already had an Eye One display 2 that came with HP APS.
I was told by NEC sales that the colorometer was tuned for the Monitor.Maybe Digital Dog can tell us if the Eye One colorometer is tuned for Just the NEC or did I buy another Eye One Display2 Colorometer for nothing?
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UNLESS the document is going out to that CMYK device, this is a pretty stupid idea!
I don't know too many color geeks I respect who think we need yet another RGB working space. So scRGB is not anything to worry about, especially since its not installed by Adobe applications for one.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=190789\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Well of course it was going out to a CMYK device - a printed catalog. He was the color prepress guy.
As for the other person's statement abut the 12 bit LUT. This is not the same as controlling each color in 10 bits from the software through the graphics card to the monitor. That way the screen could actually show each color at 10 bits giving a total of over 1 billion possible colors displayed at one time, rather than the current 16.7 million. That would pretty much take care of any concern about high gamut monitors not having as fine a gradient for photos whose colors fall within the sRGB gamut. (Because all of those 16.7 million colors are spread out over a wider gamut in Adobe RGB they are a bit further apart.)
I'm not sure if the 12 bit LUT helps this situation as I am really just learning about this subject. I think this is just an advantage for the calibration. But it at least should assure you that all shades and colors are available for use.
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Maybe Digital Dog can tell us if the Eye One colorometer is tuned for Just the NEC or did I buy another Eye One Display2 Colorometer for nothing?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=190807\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Its the same instrument. The only tuned unit was for their LED unit which has been discontinued but still available.
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Well of course it was going out to a CMYK device - a printed catalog. He was the color prepress guy.
Then for anyone else working on an RGB master, its not at all useful.
As for the other person's statement abut the 12 bit LUT. This is not the same as controlling each color in 10 bits from the software through the graphics card to the monitor.
We don't have high bit support in the OS or applications. So this at least contains the high bit adjustments to the display, a start.
That would pretty much take care of any concern about high gamut monitors not having as fine a gradient for photos whose colors fall within the sRGB gamut. (Because all of those 16.7 million colors are spread out over a wider gamut in Adobe RGB they are a bit further apart.)
It will when the entire system is hight bit, its not at the moment.
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Then for anyone else working on an RGB master, its not at all useful.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=190812\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
My point was that this color expert did his fine adjustments to the color numbers and not visually based on what he saw on the monitor. So not everyone tries to match the monitor to the output. He was able to envision the final print based on the CMYK numbers. I'm sure he could have done the same with RGB.
I just thought it was an unusual observation. I wasn't recommending the technique - I don't expect anyone to become that good.
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My point was that this color expert did his fine adjustments to the color numbers and not visually based on what he saw on the monitor.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=190821\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Its real old school and yes, anyone who KNOWS the output numbers can work this way in RGB. But its severely impractical once you start working with more than one output device.
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We don't have high bit support in the OS or applications. So this at least contains the high bit adjustments to the display, a start.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=190812\")
But the 2690 monitor is not capable of 10 bit input from the graphics card even if the OS and applications support it.
Whereas this NEC does support 10 bit input:
[a href=\"http://www.necdisplay.com/Products/Product/?product=6eec56b3-7ee7-4487-9e3f-9dd308215618]http://www.necdisplay.com/Products/Product...3f-9dd308215618[/url]
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My point was that this color expert did his fine adjustments to the color numbers and not visually based on what he saw on the monitor. So not everyone tries to match the monitor to the output.
That's sort of like driving while blindfolded while someone describes the passing scenery to you. It's only useful if all your output goes to one device; as soon as you switch to a different printer or press all your carefully memorized numbers are useless. It's an interesting circus trick, but not very useful compared to a properly color-managed workflow, which eliminates much of the need to fix color errors in the first place.
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But the 2690 monitor is not capable of 10 bit input from the graphics card even if the OS and applications support it.
Exactly. Its 8-bit in and 8-bit out. Having the higher bit is useful for altering the behavior of the device (so to speak) using a high bit LUT. But until we have a full high bit path, the issues of working with wider gamut displays on narrow gamut images is such that we find a far higher colorimetric difference in working with smaller gamut images.
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> Regarding the calibrators for those wide-gamut displays, if using a colorimeter, I think I would prefer to use a bundled instrument -which might be 'tuned', rather than the stock Xrite model.
That's one approach. Correct me if I'm wrong, but these 'tuned' colorimeters are generally OEMed versions that include custom calibration/correction matrices.
EIZO (for their CG line AFAIK) and Quato include such custom calibration matrices for each supported (general purpose) measuring device in their software.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=187587\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
One is tempted to just place the sensor on the monitor and run the software to calibrate the monitor in the default mode. If you look deeper, there are a number of ways the calibration software can be set in addition to white balance, gamma, and brightness.
I read the NEC 2690 and Spectravision II manual pretty carefully and they advise when calibrating their wide gamut monitors to set the software to use "Factory Presets" for color calibration rather than have the sensor measure the color while calibrating. Apparently it is not capable of reading all of the colors that the high gamut monitors produce. So I guess it is just being used to measure the brightness values. Maybe they should have marked that a bit more clearly on the sensor or monitor itself.
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I read the NEC 2690 and Spectravision II manual pretty carefully and they advise when calibrating their wide gamut monitors to set the software to use "Factory Presets" for color calibration rather than have the sensor measure the color while calibrating. Apparently it is not capable of reading all of the colors that the high gamut monitors produce. So I guess it is just being used to measure the brightness values. Maybe they should have marked that a bit more clearly on the sensor or monitor itself.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=190975\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Depends on the sensor. For measuring the white, a Spectrophotometer is preferable, for measuring the dark areas, a colorimeter is preferable. You could if you wished, used BOTH (that's what I do). Measure white with Spectrophotometer, build a custom white point from that measurement and then calibrate from there with the colorimeter.
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Exactly. Its 8-bit in and 8-bit out. Having the higher bit is useful for altering the behavior of the device (so to speak) using a high bit LUT. But until we have a full high bit path, the issues of working with wider gamut displays on narrow gamut images is such that we find a far higher colorimetric difference in working with smaller gamut images.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=190827\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I've read someone quoting Karl Lang saying that the Nec 2180WG actually has true 10bit DVI support (a 10-10-10 bit path). But as you say, there is no operating system or graphics card that supports this today.
Just curious how Nec themselves tested this feature
Maybe they just tried it with a modded old Matrox card or some of the special greyscale cards for the 10bit greyscale displays that Eizo has..
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I've read someone quoting Karl Lang saying that the Nec 2180WG actually has true 10bit DVI support (a 10-10-10 bit path). But as you say, there is no operating system or graphics card that supports this today.
Just curious how Nec themselves tested this feature
Maybe they just tried it with a modded old Matrox card or some of the special greyscale cards for the 10bit greyscale displays that Eizo has..
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=191068\")
Yes that monitor is 10 bit and it costs about $3500. And there are a number of 10 bit graphics cards. I have one (ATI X1300) and didn't even know it was 10 bit when I bought it. So they might be more common than you think.
See this quote:
"Witness a billion more colors in all of your graphics applications than you would with competing graphics boards
ATI’s Radeon™ X1000 series employs a 10-bit-per-color display engine that renders in excess of a billion more colors than competing graphics cards."
Then in fine print it says you need a ten bit monitor. It makes no mention of operating sytems and applications software.
The X1950 also says, "Maps any input format to 10 bit per channel output."
It could be that somehow the card and 10 bit monitor will display more than a billion colors to reduce banding by filling in between the 8 bit colors. This card is sold mostly for gaming and video so maybe there is a way for it to work for some things. I don't know what happens when you adjust a photo on it with a 10 bit monitor. In any case, I don't know if there are 10 bit printers so what can you do but look at the image? (I'm really out of my field of knowledge so excuse me for speculating.)
Here a link to the card's specs:
[a href=\"http://ati.amd.com/products/radeonx1950/specs.html]http://ati.amd.com/products/radeonx1950/specs.html[/url]
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You can switch between wide gamut and sRGB using the monitor's control buttons.
There are several selections - for sRGB, native, custom, and presets.
There is also NEC NaViSet software that I downloaded that might let you do this via the keyboard but I haven't looked at it yet. Anway, it takes just a few seconds to do it via the control buttons and is clear and easy.
Yes it is like 2 for one. I don't think I'd be happy with a monitor that only works in wide gamut because most programs are not color aware and normal icons and sRGB photos viewed in wide gamut look very punchy.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=190755\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thank you, Alan, for your response. Sorry for the delay in this acknowledgement, but have been busy with family stuff over the last couple of days. And I pretty much figured out, as Andrew pointed out, that the sRGB mode is for viewing, only, not for calibration. Too bad. Maybe that's down the road.
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Yes that monitor is 10 bit and it costs about $3500. And there are a number of 10 bit graphics cards. I have one (ATI X1300) and didn't even know it was 10 bit when I bought it. So they might be more common than you think.
See this quote:
"Witness a billion more colors in all of your graphics applications than you would with competing graphics boards
ATI’s Radeon™ X1000 series employs a 10-bit-per-color display engine that renders in excess of a billion more colors than competing graphics cards."
Then in fine print it says you need a ten bit monitor. It makes no mention of operating sytems and applications software.
The X1950 also says, "Maps any input format to 10 bit per channel output."
It could be that somehow the card and 10 bit monitor will display more than a billion colors to reduce banding by filling in between the 8 bit colors. This card is sold mostly for gaming and video so maybe there is a way for it to work for some things. I don't know what happens when you adjust a photo on it with a 10 bit monitor. In any case, I don't know if there are 10 bit printers so what can you do but look at the image? (I'm really out of my field of knowledge so excuse me for speculating.)
Here a link to the card's specs:
http://ati.amd.com/products/radeonx1950/specs.html (http://ati.amd.com/products/radeonx1950/specs.html)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=191090\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
That's interesting and odd, considering that there is one monitor (afaik) that supports 10-bit input, which normally isn't bought by gamers. Getting more information from ATI can be cumbersome from my experience.
Nothing will happen if you adjust a photo on it with a 10 bit monitor, as there is no support in photoshop etc for this sort of thing. You probably have to make a special surface in the application using a ATI SDK to be able to take advantage of this feature.
I'm going to see if I can find out more about this..
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That's interesting and odd, considering that there is one monitor (afaik) that supports 10-bit input, which normally isn't bought by gamers. Getting more information from ATI can be cumbersome from my experience.
Nothing will happen if you adjust a photo on it with a 10 bit monitor, as there is no support in photoshop etc for this sort of thing. You probably have to make a special surface in the application using a ATI SDK to be able to take advantage of this feature.
I'm going to see if I can find out more about this..
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=191430\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Actually, some models from Formac also feature 10 bit output. They advertise them as "panels capable of embracing video cards, which support 10bit and above look-up tables allowing you to choose extended colour palette’s to more than 1 billion as well as adjust Gamma control" - but I'd rather be sceptical about that (I'm not sure if any profiler supports 10 bit video card LUT calibration?).
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How do these monitors compare for uniformity, the NEC & Eizo? Eizo make a big deal in their marketing about the uniformity of their panels. This is what is driving me crazy about my Samsung 214T, the left hand side is noticeably brighter than the right which makes correcting double-page spreads very frustrating. If I knew the NEC was going to be perfectly even I'll buy one in a blink. Anyone had any problems with evenness of illumination on the 2690? Just thought I would ask before buying, thanks in advance,
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How do these monitors compare for uniformity, the NEC & Eizo? Eizo make a big deal in their marketing about the uniformity of their panels. This is what is driving me crazy about my Samsung 214T, the left hand side is noticeably brighter than the right which makes correcting double-page spreads very frustrating. If I knew the NEC was going to be perfectly even I'll buy one in a blink. Anyone had any problems with evenness of illumination on the 2690? Just thought I would ask before buying, thanks in advance,
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=191540\")
My NEC 2690 looks perfectly even. It has a feature that automatically adjusts it to make it even. Also, being an IPS panel, the image is even regardless of the viewing angle.
"ColorComp™ reduces uniformity imperfections by compensating for differences in color and luminance across the screen area. "
There is a complete review of the 2690. In the section on "Image Quality" it shows the how ColorComp works and calls the evenness "amazing." Reading this review and seeing the monitor sold me.
[a href=\"http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2007/review-nec-lcd2690wuxi.html#Introduction]http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2007...ml#Introduction[/url]
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My NEC 2690 looks perfectly even. It has a feature that automatically adjusts it to make it even. Also, being an IPS panel, the image is even regardless of the viewing angle.
"ColorComp™ reduces uniformity imperfections by compensating for differences in color and luminance across the screen area. "
There is a complete review of the 2690. In the section on "Image Quality" it shows the how ColorComp works and calls the evenness "amazing." Reading this review and seeing the monitor sold me.
http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2007...ml#Introduction (http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2007/review-nec-lcd2690wuxi.html#Introduction)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=191546\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thanks for the link. The ColourComp feature looks amazing. I'm sold!
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Another vote here for the 2690. Ive had mine for about 6 months and love it. Its stunning to work with images on this monitor.
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Another vote here for the 2690. Ive had mine for about 6 months and love it. Its stunning to work with images on this monitor.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=191553\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hi Josh,
But where to buy In Australia? Made a few calls and none available!
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Note that ColorComp was turned off by default on my 2090uxi. You have to enable it via the OSD controls.
Nill
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www.toulme.net
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Hi Josh,
But where to buy In Australia? Made a few calls and none available!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=191559\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
In Europe there's a funny situation - you can't buy 2690UXi + Spectraview II separetly, and if you need a hardware calibration, you must buy a much more expansive "Spectraview 2690", that is basically a 2690WUXi with a "Spectraview optimized" sticker, a hood (that falls off), and a "Spectraview Profiler 4".
"Spectraview Profiler 4" can't be bought separetly, but - as a matter of fact - it's a rebranded basICColor Display 4. AFAIK, 2690WUXi users from Europe buy basICColor Display 4, and after a small menu settings change, hardware calibration of 2690WUXI becomes possible.
You may download basICColor profiler 14 day trial, and give it a try.
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In Europe there's a funny situation - you can't buy 2690UXi + Spectraview II separetly, and if you need a hardware calibration, you must buy a much more expansive "Spectraview 2690", that is basically a 2690WUXi with a "Spectraview optimized" sticker, a hood (that falls off), and a "Spectraview Profiler 4".
"Spectraview Profiler 4" can't be bought separetly, but - as a matter of fact - it's a rebranded basICColor Display 4. AFAIK, 2690WUXi users from Europe buy basICColor Display 4, and after a small menu settings change, hardware calibration of 2690WUXI becomes possible.
You may download basICColor profiler 14 day trial, and give it a try.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=191595\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
But you still can't buy the Spectraview software separately and use it on a "non-Spectraview" EU model like you can in the US (and perhaps elsewhere), can you? I understand that at least on previous NEC model lines, the EU models actually had a firmware cripple that kept them from being able to use the Spectraview software. That never made any sense to me at all, and still doesn't.
I don't know about the EU Spectraview software — it's a completely different product — but the US version of Spectraview II is truly excellent and worth the freight.
Nill
~~
www.toulme.net
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But you still can't buy the Spectraview software separately and use it on a "non-Spectraview" EU model like you can in the US (and perhaps elsewhere), can you? I understand that at least on previous NEC model lines, the EU models actually had a firmware cripple that kept them from being able to use the Spectraview software. That never made any sense to me at all, and still doesn't.
I don't know about the EU Spectraview software — it's a completely different product — but the US version of Spectraview II is truly excellent and worth the freight.
Nill
~~
www.toulme.net
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=191597\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
European software is not bad, either. BasICColor display seems to be the base for Nec Spectraview Profiler, and Quato iColor Display. And there's a menu trick that turns the firmware cripple off.
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Ah, OK ... but does the non-OEM version address the monitor's internal 12-bit LUTs directly like Spectraview does? Seems unlikely.
Nill
~~
www.toulme.net
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Ah, OK ... but does the non-OEM version address the monitor's internal 12-bit LUTs directly like Spectraview does? Seems unlikely.
Nill
~~
www.toulme.net
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=191609\")
100% - it's the same software. Besides... you must buy it only if you want to be 200% legal:
[a href=\"http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=105510]http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/forum...ic.php?p=105510[/url]
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Since there's been no mention of basICColor's calibration software, I thought I'd give it a mention.
http://www.basiccolor.de/ (http://www.basiccolor.de/)
http://www.basiccolor.de/english/Datenblae...d_E/squid_E.htm (http://www.basiccolor.de/english/Datenblaetter_E/squid_E/squid_E.htm)
Been using it for two years with an Eye-One and I love it.
Also, slightly off topic, but their neutral grey card is outstanding. It is truly neutral. Lab of 60, 0, 0, or RGB of 143. Worth its weight in gold. Typically German, very Vorsprung Durch Technik! ;-)
http://www.basiccolor.de/english/Orderform...isTargets_E.htm (http://www.basiccolor.de/english/Orderforms_E/orderTargets/PreisTargets_E.htm)
Any views on the Apple 23" Display? Only reason I ask is that I can buy one for peanuts from a shop that's stuck with one.
Thanks.
D.
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Hi Josh,
But where to buy In Australia? Made a few calls and none available!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=191559\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I bought mine direct from NEC Australia and yes the spectraview II software does work on the Australian model. I have been using it for 6 months.
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I bought mine direct from NEC Australia and yes the spectraview II software does work on the Australian model. I have been using it for 6 months.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=191688\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Do you happen to know if the Spectraview software is compatible with either XP pro 64 bit or Vista x64?
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Do you happen to know if the Spectraview software is compatible with either XP pro 64 bit or Vista x64?
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I am running it on Vista 32 bit - no problems
Have not tried it on XP or Vista 64.
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Do you happen to know if the Spectraview software is compatible with either XP pro 64 bit or Vista x64?
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EDIT: for the record, SPECTRAVIEW WORKS ON VISTA64, but you have to ignore an ominous dialog box during installation, see my second message a few posts down.
original post...
Nope, Spectraview wouldn't install on my new Vista 64 bit system, tried the latest download just a few days ago.
However, Gretag Eye One Match 3 in combination with my Eye-One Display 2 runs OK on Vista64, but requires manual calibration with my LCD2690WUXi in order to get a decent profile at anything less than about 200 cd/m2. OTOH under XP32 Spectraview can automatically knock out a good 140 cd/m2 profile in about a minute.
Made me appreciate what a great package Spectraview is. Hopefully the approach of 64 bit PS will force the issue in the not too distant future.
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SpectraView II is compatible with Vista x64, and signed x64 drivers for the iOneD2 and iOnePro are included. For others sensors you will need to install x64 compatible drivers manually.
When you say it wouldn't install, what exactly happened? What kind of video card and sensor do you have?
Nope, Spectraview wouldn't install on my new Vista 64 bit system, tried the latest download just a few days ago.
However, Gretag Eye One Match 3 in combination with my Eye-One Display 2 runs OK on Vista64, but requires manual calibration with my LCD2690WUXi in order to get a decent profile at anything less than about 200 cd/m2. OTOH under XP32 Spectraview can automatically knock out a good 140 cd/m2 profile in about a minute.
Made me appreciate what a great package Spectraview is. Hopefully the approach of 64 bit PS will force the issue in the not too distant future.
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When you say it wouldn't install, what exactly happened? What kind of video card and sensor do you have?
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Thanks WillH, I needed that.
I stand corrected. I tried again and this time Spectraview installed and ran (beautifully) on Vista64 with my EyeOne Display 2 puck.
But for the record, during install I got this scary MessageBox...
[attachment=6577:attachment]
However, installation completed and everything works fine. Nec needs to do a little rewording on that dialog.
Good software though, very sweet looking calibration on the NEC2690. About 140, 160 cd/m2 is the minimum brightness needed to get a good report on the "Validate" graph.
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... About 140, 160 cd/m2 is the minimum brightness needed to get a good report on the "Validate" graph.
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That's interesting, and disappointing. I'd have a very hard time using a monitor that bright in my work environment.
Nill
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www.toulme.net
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That's interesting, and disappointing. I'd have a very hard time using a monitor that bright in my work environment. [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=195734\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I initially had some trouble with that brightness level as well. I brought up the ambient light in proportion, now everything seems fine. After years or working in the murk I find I prefer a brighter workspace, although it seemed sort of immoral at first.
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I'd have to buy some lights. ;-)
Nill
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www.toulme.net
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So you see a message about NaViSet when you install SpectraView? I know NaViSet is not compatible with x64 Windows, but you shouldn't need it to install and run SpectraView II.
I stand corrected. I tried again and this time Spectraview installed and ran (beautifully) on Vista64 with my EyeOne Display 2 puck.
But for the record, during install I got this scary MessageBox...
[attachment=6577:attachment]
However, installation completed and everything works fine. Nec needs to do a little rewording on that dialog.
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From where the error message occured during automatic installation, I assumed "NaViSet" was the USB puck driver, and that "Setup will now terminate" referred to the whole process, not just whatever NaViSet is. No matter, this is the best monitor calibration package ever!
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I am addressing this post to WillH at NEC. (If you are still following this forum.)
I have the 2690SV and like it a lot. Thanks NEC! Since you are here, I thought I'd ask you for confirmation of the best way to calibrate it. At first I simply used the default settings and the screen looked fine.
Then I read in the manual and it advises when calibrating a wide gamut monitor to set the SVII software to use "Factory Presets" for color calibration rather than have the sensor measure the color while calibrating.
I feel that if this is the way this monitor should be calibrated, it would be a good idea to make that information more prominent. (Or somehow have the software automatically use the factory presets when calibrating a wide gamut monitor.) As it is, one has to read the Spectraview II manual pretty thoroughly before one might realize this. And does everyone read the manual?
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Alan
I agree the setting is not very well documented. We are going to change it to default to the recommended setting based on the monitor and color sensor combination being used.
It was primarily aimed at the LCD2180WG-LED model when used with colorimeters since that combination can have a high measurement error unless the custom calibrated colorimeter or a spectral device is used.
Thanks for your feedback.
Then I read in the manual and it advises when calibrating a wide gamut monitor to set the SVII software to use "Factory Presets" for color calibration rather than have the sensor measure the color while calibrating.
I feel that if this is the way this monitor should be calibrated, it would be a good idea to make that information more prominent. (Or somehow have the software automatically use the factory presets when calibrating a wide gamut monitor.) As it is, one has to read the Spectraview II manual pretty thoroughly before one might realize this. And does everyone read the manual?
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