Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: elitegroup on February 29, 2008, 11:22:07 pm

Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: elitegroup on February 29, 2008, 11:22:07 pm
Hi,

I've just joined the forum as a new/emerging photographer and had the chance to use the Hasselblad H3DII-39 for the 2008 Australian kooey Swimwear Campaign.

 

View video footage, click the Kooey thumbnail on the top right corner of the movie flashplayer @ http://elitegroup.blip.tv (http://elitegroup.blip.tv/)

NOTE: At the end of the closing credits....... I've included an epilogue and brief footage of the Prime Ministers apology to the stolen generation.

The Australian governments acknowledgement of past colonial policies is the first step in the healing process of one of the oldest continuing cultures in human history.

Young indigenous model 'Emily Cattermole' is one of the rising talents here in Australia and I look forward to watching her career blossom    

 

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c213/poata/A0397s.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c213/poata/A0424s.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c213/poata/A0539s.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c213/poata/A0685s.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c213/poata/A0476s-1.jpg)

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c213/poata/A0556s.jpg)
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: bradleygibson on February 29, 2008, 11:35:08 pm
Welcome, elitegroup!

Lovely work!  

-Brad
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: elitegroup on February 29, 2008, 11:54:22 pm
Quote
Welcome, elitegroup!

Lovely work! 

-Brad
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=178374\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


CHeers mate  
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: David Anderson on March 01, 2008, 02:01:21 am
You left NZ for WA ?  

What about the trout fishing !  

Nice shots.
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: canmiya on March 01, 2008, 06:04:21 am
beautiful work!!! welcome!
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: Graham Mitchell on March 01, 2008, 06:30:20 am
Awful. I think I will have to reshoot it, spending weeks on that boat with the model if necessary
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: thsinar on March 01, 2008, 06:36:12 am
... and I think that you did not yet well integrate the e75 workflow, and that you need an assistant there!

I'm available!

 

Thierry

Quote
Awful. I think I will have to reshoot it, spending weeks on that boat with the model if necessary
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=178420\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: AndrewDyer on March 01, 2008, 12:03:35 pm
You Lucky Bastard!!
I am allowed to call you that, because I am an Aussie... and that can be given in
a complimentary way in Australia...
Nice work, and welcome to the forum
A
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: Ed Jack on March 01, 2008, 12:06:29 pm
Quote
... and I think that you did not yet well integrate the e75 workflow, and that you need an assistant there!

I'm available!

 

Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=178423\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Wonderfull pictures. From a pure heath and safety perspective and as an avid sailor myself, I do have to question whether wearing stilletos on deck is sensible  

Ed
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: elitegroup on March 01, 2008, 09:43:10 pm
Quote
Awful. I think I will have to reshoot it, spending weeks on that boat with the model if necessary
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=178420\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

O.K. as long as I get be 1st assistant  
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: elitegroup on March 01, 2008, 09:48:55 pm
Quote
You Lucky Bastard!!
I am allowed to call you that, because I am an Aussie... and that can be given in
a complimentary way in Australia...
Nice work, and welcome to the forum
A
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=178463\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

G'day, nice to see another Aussie on LL
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: elitegroup on March 01, 2008, 09:52:39 pm
Quote
... and I think that you did not yet well integrate the e75 workflow, and that you need an assistant there!

I'm available!

 

Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=178423\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

O.K. but only if you bring the new Sinar eMotion 75 LV and HY6 for me to play with  
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: elitegroup on March 01, 2008, 09:54:04 pm
Thanks for the comments everybody  
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: paulhu on March 02, 2008, 12:33:59 am
It's cold this time of the year in Georgia, outdoors is out of the question. We'll just have to shoot indoors, if you don't mind.  Somehow, I just love the color yellow.

H3D-31 w/HC 80mm lens

(http://76.162.32.232/images/A0904_web.jpg)
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: david o on March 02, 2008, 12:38:34 am
Quote
It's cold this time of the year in Georgia, outdoors is out of the question. We'll just have to shoot indoors, if you don't mind.  Somehow, I just love the color yellow.

H3D-31 w/HC 80mm lens

Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: paulhu on March 02, 2008, 01:07:26 am
Quote
it looks like that actually you don;t like yellow that much because it seems she won't keep it that long and I am afraid someone asked her to do so... 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=178575\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


You are absolutely right, how did you guess?  It was so HOT inside the house, so something had to be done.  I just can't show the rest of this series in case it may cause a few heart attacks.  Remember the subject of this thread is SWIMWEAR.

(http://76.162.32.232/images/A0933_web.jpg)
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: HarperPhotos on March 02, 2008, 01:53:31 am
Gidday,

I know its not swimwear, but close enough.

A few years ago now.

Nikon D100, Nikon 60mm macro.

Cheers

Simon
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: elitegroup on March 02, 2008, 03:15:38 am
Quote
It's cold this time of the year in Georgia, outdoors is out of the question. We'll just have to shoot indoors, if you don't mind.  Somehow, I just love the color yellow.

H3D-31 w/HC 80mm lens

Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: elitegroup on March 02, 2008, 03:24:13 am
Quote
Gidday,

I know its not swimwear, but close enough.

A few years ago now.

Nikon D100, Nikon 60mm macro.

Cheers

Simon
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=178587\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Kia Ora,

Great capture Simon.

I also like the look of your fully enclosed cyclorama. Just wondering what your studio and lighting day hire rates are, I may be in Aotearoa at the end of the year to scout locations and talent for an upcoming project.

I'm still waiting to hear from you  

David
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: jecxz on March 02, 2008, 07:05:41 am
<deleted>
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: Mark Regan on March 02, 2008, 01:36:07 pm
Outstanding! Great pictures. Maybe the reflections of the upper leg on the boat are a little wide,
just kidding...

Question to all you H3DII shooters:
Is the dynamic range of the 22 and 39 (or the 31) mega
backs the same? Or is there less dynamic range available in the 39 vs the 22?
Thanks for any answers.
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: josayeruk on March 03, 2008, 08:50:57 am
Quote
Hi,

I've just joined the forum as a new/emerging photographer and had the chance to use the Hasselblad H3D-39 II for the 2008 Australian kooey Swimwear Campaign.

I loved the intuitive ergonomics of the cameras menu. I found it very similar to an SLR in terms of use and handling. The AF lenses pretty much nailed it 95% of the time as I was shooting fairly quickly.  

The only real issue was FlexColor v.4.8.4 this has got to be the worst RAW processing program I've ever used, though I've heard good things about the forth coming Phocus Software. I've just downloaded the tutorial and it's looking like a vast improvement over FlexColor.

I'd love the opportunity to work with the upcoming Phase One P+/Mamiya MK III and Rolleiflex 6008 AF/Phase One P+ combo.

I'll post a link to Behind the Scenes video footage in a week or so  


[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=178368\")

Extremely nice lighting.  

Looks like you didn't have the lens corrections on in the image below.  Any reason why?

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c213/poata/A0539s.jpg)

Give FlexColor a chance - it is very powerful - just get somebody to show you the ropes.  You could also talk to...

[a href=\"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Flexframe/]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Flexframe/[/url]

Jo Sx
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: elitegroup on March 03, 2008, 10:51:10 am
Quote
Extremely nice lighting.   

Looks like you didn't have the lens corrections on in the image below.  Any reason why?

 

The lighting was from a 22" silver beauty dish connected to an Elinchrom Ranger RX  AS battery with S head (I love this pack, consistent color temp even after constant use, fast recharge, light and easy to operate) I opened up a couple stops to achieve the high key effect.

I'll definitely check out the link you've kindly posted.

Cheers  
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: pprdigital on March 03, 2008, 11:18:29 am
Quote
I used the 28mm for this shot.

To be honest I didn't know whether the lens correction function was on and I don't know how to turn it on. It was my first time with the camera and I had no instruction manual, the operator gave me a quick 5 minute lesson and I just improvised from there   

The lighting was from a 27" silver beauty dish connected to an Elinchrom Ranger RX  AS battery with S head (I love this pack, consistent color temp even after days of constant use, fast recharge, light and easy to operate) I opened up a couple stops (ISO 100 to 400) to over expose/achieve that high key effect.

I'll post a link to the Kooey Swimwear behind the scenes video footage once the editing is complete. (should be ready in a couple of days)

I'll definitely check out the link you've kindly posted.

Cheers 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=178852\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I think it can be hard to tell if DAC was on for a shot of this type - especially the distortion because of the plane angle of the model as she's pushing herself towards the lens.

For most recent versions of Flexcolor (including the current 4.8.4) all DAC corrections are turned on by default.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: elitegroup on March 03, 2008, 11:25:08 am
Quote
I think it can be hard to tell if DAC was on for a shot of this type - especially the distortion because of the plane angle of the model as she's pushing herself towards the lens.

For most recent versions of Flexcolor (including the current 4.8.4) all DAC corrections are turned on by default.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=178855\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks for the info, it's good to know DAC is turned on by default in FlexColor 4.8.4
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: psvedberg on March 03, 2008, 12:40:05 pm
...hmm - in fact when shooting people with the 28 I prefer to have the DAC turned OFF in postproduction - otherwise like in this case the model will have even MORE distorted head/hair and feet as they are nearer the edges of the frame... But here it´s just cool.
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: josayeruk on March 03, 2008, 02:07:57 pm
Quote
I used the 28mm for this shot.

To be honest I didn't know whether the lens correction function was on and I don't know how to turn it on. It was my first time with the camera and I had no instruction manual, the operator gave me a quick 5 minute lesson and I just improvised from there   

The lighting was from a 27" silver beauty dish connected to an Elinchrom Ranger RX  AS battery with S head (I love this pack, consistent color temp even after constant use, fast recharge, light and easy to operate) I opened up a couple stops (ISO 100 to 400) to over expose/achieve that high key effect.

I'll post a link to the Kooey Swimwear behind the scenes video footage once the editing is complete. (should be ready in a couple of days)

I'll definitely check out the link you've kindly posted.

Cheers 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=178852\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

In that case, you improvised pretty well!

The link I posted should put you in touch with a lot of people who use the equipment.  You might be interested to know it was also setup by a Kiwi.    

Jo S.x
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: elitegroup on June 07, 2008, 01:18:55 pm
Quote
In that case, you improvised pretty well!

The link I posted should put you in touch with a lot of people who use the equipment.  You might be interested to know it was also setup by a Kiwi.   

Jo S.x
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=178899\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I applied to join this group but because I do not own an H3DII my application was rejected  
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: josayeruk on June 07, 2008, 01:59:30 pm
Quote
I applied to join this group but because I do not own an H3DII my application was rejected 
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=200299\")

Oh I see.  I didn't think of that!

Yes, the group is for owners only.  It has just gone onto a web version now...

[a href=\"http://www.hasselbladdigitalforum.com/]http://www.hasselbladdigitalforum.com/[/url]

...and there is a forum for prospective purchasers so you can interact with the owners, pros and cons etc etc.

Hope that helps instead!

Jo S.x
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: jonstewart on June 07, 2008, 03:19:11 pm
So, not only are Hasselblad going for a completely closed system, they are also going for closed forums as well!
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: James R Russell on June 07, 2008, 03:40:30 pm
Quote
So, not only are Hasselblad going for a completely closed system, they are also going for closed forums as well!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200323\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Nick T's a good guy so I doubt if the idea of a closed forum was his idea, though I don't know this as fact.

Regardless, any maker that closes there forum to me is just not worth the effort.

A maker's forum can tell you a lot about a purchase, how they respond, do they repsond fully, how they resolve issues.

An open forum allows for a lot of good cross exchange from all types of users and normally can avoid the risk of the one hand clapping syndrome.

JR
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: josayeruk on June 07, 2008, 05:46:06 pm
Quote
So, not only are Hasselblad going for a completely closed system, they are also going for closed forums as well!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200323\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


For a start Hasselblad is not completely closed.  CF Back? - Like Sinar works with multiple medium format cameras via changing an adapter.  Is that closed?

And have you considered the advantages of the H3D?  Its a short sighted perspective to be always negative.

Anyway as usual we could go round in circles.  Back to the point in hand...

The forum is run by Nick T and has his reasons for keeping it closed which is supported by the members.

The web forum was started up to give non-users a better way to communicate with owners, which wasn't possible with the email list.

Jo S.x
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: jonstewart on June 07, 2008, 05:50:43 pm
Hi James,
My first thought was that they wanted any dirty washing to stay as private as possible. I wasn't referring to Nick T, just Hasselblad's apparent philosophy in this respect.

When I go to buy equipment (and I'm sure it's the same for many others) I don't want to know what it can do, I want to know what it can't, and exactly where the limits are.

The fact that they were closing down their system was enough to persuade me not to buy into it in the first place!

Cheers
Jon
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: jonstewart on June 07, 2008, 05:56:46 pm
Quote
For a start Hasselblad is not completely closed.  CF Back? - Like Sinar works with multiple medium format cameras via changing an adapter.  Is that closed?

And have you considered the advantages of the H3D?  Its a short sighted perspective to be always negative.

Jo S.x
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200338\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi,
Don't want to get into a whole wrangle over very little here, but my thoughts are as follows:

1. At the moment Hasselblad is not completely closed, as you state, but look at the direction they're headed in the past while.

2. The only advantage to me would be an MS back: I wonder how many years will Phase One (I own)  take to actually deliver one of these, if ever, and I doubt they will. (I seem to shoot mostly large format, so I wouldn't see much advantage, to me, of the integration levels of the H system. I can see how it might be of value to others.)

Short sighted? I don't think so, but I can appreciate why we can disagree here, and that's fine.

Cheers
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: josayeruk on June 07, 2008, 06:45:06 pm
Quote
Hi James,
My first thought was that they wanted any dirty washing to stay as private as possible. I wasn't referring to Nick T, just Hasselblad's apparent philosophy in this respect.

When I go to buy equipment (and I'm sure it's the same for many others) I don't want to know what it can do, I want to know what it can't, and exactly where the limits are.

The fact that they were closing down their system was enough to persuade me not to buy into it in the first place!

Cheers
Jon
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200339\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The forum has no association with Hasselblad.
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: TechTalk on June 07, 2008, 07:06:00 pm
Quote
Nick T's a good guy so I doubt if the idea of a closed forum was his idea, though I don't know this as fact.

JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200325\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The Yahoo FlexFrame Users Group was created by Nick T and he wanted a closed forum. The smaller group allows owners of the equipment to discuss their questions, answers and experiences in a far less chaotic environment than would be possible in open forums like this. It is an additional option to open forums, not a replacement. There are complaints aired and opinions get argued, but the smaller group provides for a more supportive familial atmosphere.

I think he's still a good guy.
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: TechTalk on June 07, 2008, 07:15:33 pm
Quote
So, not only are Hasselblad going for a completely closed system, they are also going for closed forums as well!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200323\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
No they aren't.  It isn't their forum.    

Didn't really care about responding to your post. Just wanted to try out the faces. I've never used them before. Don't think I will again. They make me feel like I'm back in 6th grade.
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: jjj on June 07, 2008, 07:56:40 pm
Quote
Give FlexColor a chance - it is very powerful - just get somebody to show you the ropes. [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=178840\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Why? It's absolutely wretched.  Really difficult to use and looks like in was designed in 1994 and never updated subsequently.
Phocus is a huge improvement [if you have a Mac, tough if you use PCs], but is still rather clumsy and seriously lacking when you compare in to Bridge/ACR and Lightroom. Workflow seems a bit sad next to Adobe's stuff and considering the price of the cameras, you'd expect, top notch software to go with it, which is sadly not the case. Phocus seems somewhat unfinished to my mind. Roll on v2, but probably not this decade.  

Nice shots BTW
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: dwdallam on June 08, 2008, 02:41:18 am
Quote
Young indigenous model 'Emily Cattermole' is one of the rising aboriginal talents here in Australia and I look forward to watching her career blossom   

 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=178368\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


You are kidding right? I mean about the "aboriginal" part?

The word aboriginal, appearing in English since at least the 17th century and meaning "first or earliest known, indigenous," (Latin Aborigines, from ab: from, and origo: origin, beginning),[9] has been used in Australia to describe its Indigenous peoples as early as 1789.--wikipedia.

That model, while pretty, looks like a European, and if not that, she has lots of European in her. I would not call her aboriginal. Unless I'm forgetting my history and anthropology classes on Australian Aboriginal peoples, that's quite and insult.

Very nice work though. Also, there is a dedicated MF thread you may want to post these in. But those MF guys are snottier than us lowly "full frame" dudes. They drink "wine" and eat "cheese" and we drink "beer" and eat "chips."  

Anyway, welcome.
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: AndrewDyer on June 08, 2008, 04:29:20 am
Quote
I would not call her aboriginal. Unless I'm forgetting my history and anthropology classes on Australian Aboriginal peoples, that's quite and insult.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200396\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well, dwdallam.... you might not call her Aboriginal, but thankfully that doesn't mean she can't identify
herself as one. Do you know who her parents are?
I guess it shows that studying a subject and actually living and experiencing a subject
are 2 very different things.
A
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: jonstewart on June 08, 2008, 06:30:52 am
Quote
No they aren't.  It isn't their forum.    

Didn't really care about responding to your post. Just wanted to try out the faces. I've never used them before. Don't think I will again. They make me feel like I'm back in 6th grade.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200352\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Maybe it's important once in a while to fell like we're in 6th grade.    

The smiley in my original post was intended to indicate some humour. Not everything on this board is a life or death issue, and I certainly didn't mean to give offence to Nick T on the matter!

Cheers
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: dwdallam on June 08, 2008, 07:25:29 am
Quote
Well, dwdallam.... you might not call her Aboriginal, but thankfully that doesn't mean she can't identify
herself as one. Do you know who her parents are?
I guess it shows that studying a subject and actually living and experiencing a subject
are 2 very different things.
A
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200400\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The fact that I live as an aboriginal does not mean that I understand objectively what it is to be an aboriginal. In order to understand what I am, I have to study myself. That's why we study things, even if we are the object of our own study--and we are. Studying and experiencing are not mutually exclusive.

This doesn't have anything to do with the woman.

I think it's important to remember what "aboriginal" means because there are very important issues that may be lost with the glossing over of what "original people" really means.
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: josayeruk on June 08, 2008, 07:36:51 am
Quote
Well, dwdallam.... you might not call her Aboriginal, but thankfully that doesn't mean she can't identify
herself as one. Do you know who her parents are?
I guess it shows that studying a subject and actually living and experiencing a subject
are 2 very different things.
A
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200400\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Very well said.

Jo S.x
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: josayeruk on June 08, 2008, 07:41:09 am
Quote
Why? It's absolutely wretched.  Really difficult to use and looks like in was designed in 1994 and never updated subsequently.
Phocus is a huge improvement [if you have a Mac, tough if you use PCs], but is still rather clumsy and seriously lacking when you compare in to Bridge/ACR and Lightroom. Workflow seems a bit sad next to Adobe's stuff and considering the price of the cameras, you'd expect, top notch software to go with it, which is sadly not the case. Phocus seems somewhat unfinished to my mind. Roll on v2, but probably not this decade. 

Nice shots BTW
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200356\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well actually FlexColor has had numerous updates and additions.

As I said, it is just as powerful in workflow as many others - you just need to learn it.

Agreed Phocus was needed in terms of a fresh new interface and it certainly delivers on that front.  The Live Video with electronic focus shows what's possible and what more will come in the future.

Jo S.x
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: jjj on June 08, 2008, 09:45:26 am
Quote
Well actually FlexColor has had numerous updates and additions.
And it still has the hideous look and clunky feel of an early 90s piece of software. Yuck.  

Quote
As I said, it is just as powerful in workflow as many others - you just need to learn it.
Even if you know how to use a piece of crap well, it is still a piece of crap.  
I'm also intrigued as to what programmes it's workflow it's as 'powerful' as.  

Quote
Agreed Phocus was needed in terms of a fresh new interface and it certainly delivers on that front.  The Live Video with electronic focus shows what's possible and what more will come in the future.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200410\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Seeing as Phocus came along a long time after Aperture and Lightroom, it's interesting as to how much better the older software is, especially LR. IF you want to make the best cameras in the world, second class software [which the camera depends on], dilutes the brand somewhat.
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: James R Russell on June 08, 2008, 09:46:32 am
Quote
No they aren't.  It isn't their forum.    

Didn't really care about responding to your post. Just wanted to try out the faces. I've never used them before. Don't think I will again. They make me feel like I'm back in 6th grade.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200352\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


So Tech, does hasselblad have a forum? . . . is it open to the public? and if it's not their forum then their name is on it so I assume they have some say in how what is presented, at least I would if my name brand was on the masthead.

It doesn't matter to me, other than I find it strange how Hasselblad markets their product and through the years they have sent out a mixed message over close open platforms and now even closed or open information.

You mentioned earlier that the other back makers were getting a free ride from the Hasselblad camera but I understand that one back maker was instrumental is writing a lot of the firmware information that went into the h-1 and remember, the H series was originally sold and advertised as an open system which I believe went a long way into making the camera popular.

You can't blame some photographer's for feeling duped because if you bought, lets say a Leaf back and an H-1 waiting for the 28mm to come available, it probably was somewhat of a shock to find it it only is offered with a hasselblad back.

Personally I have no stake in any of this, but the moment Blad and Imacon came together you could just tell this was coming and even if the H-1-F or whatever it's called (BTW, what does F stand for  ?, it's still a step back for a 3rd party back user from the original h1-2.

If people don't like Blad, well they do it to themselves.

JR
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: elitegroup on June 08, 2008, 12:04:58 pm
Quote
You are kidding right? I mean about the "aboriginal" part?

The word aboriginal, appearing in English since at least the 17th century and meaning "first or earliest known, indigenous," (Latin Aborigines, from ab: from, and origo: origin, beginning),[9] has been used in Australia to describe its Indigenous peoples as early as 1789.--wikipedia.

That model, while pretty, looks like a European, and if not that, she has lots of European in her. I would not call her aboriginal. Unless I'm forgetting my history and anthropology classes on Australian Aboriginal peoples, that's quite and insult.

Very nice work though. Also, there is a dedicated MF thread you may want to post these in. But those MF guys are snottier than us lowly "full frame" dudes. They drink "wine" and eat "cheese" and we drink "beer" and eat "chips." 

Anyway, welcome.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=200396\")

Thanks Doug for sharing your perception.

There is a lot of history associated with the word aboriginal here in Australia. The word in it self is just a definition as you described for 'first or earliest known'.

You mentioned that the association of the word aboriginal is an insult, this saddens me  

To understand where this negative connotation was derived we must look back into historic colonial policies of this great wide land. At Edith Cowan University in 2003 I enrolled in the Photomedia Major where I studied a unit on the mechanics and effects of Colonialism. One of the major points for me was the formula the colonials used to inhabit a new continent. First the native peoples must be conquered systematically through a campaign of somatic warfare, the most effective form of  suppression was to take away their culture, language, traditions and sense of identity. A vanquished people are easier to manipulate, allowing free access to seize the land, its wealth and resources etc.
 
Unfortunately a lost, suppressed and broken people are susceptible victims of the lower socio economic class structure and face the debilitating effects of low self esteem and loss of self worth etc.

As an indigenous native of Aotearoa (the land of the long white cloud or New Zealand) I have an understanding of the process as my own people seek to restore their language, culture, values and more importantly their sense of self identity.

The negative association of the word aboriginal is a reflection of old colonial policies e.g. disempowering, marginalizing, silencing, subordinating, less than and so on.

With the prime ministers apology to the indigenous nation, the first great step in the healing process of the collective consciousness of the care takers of this great land I hope that finally the association of this word will expound a new meaning of pride and self worth.

As an artist/photographer I stand witness to a time of change in this country, there is opportunity to contribute to this movement through ones talents/abilities. I hope to shoot a Dreamtime Fashion editorial out in the The kimberlies in Western Australia infusing the ancient culture & stories of the indigenous peoples embodied in young Emily Cattermole's unique European/Australian and Aboriginal heritage. All I need now is the funding  

I honor Emily's heritage and wish her well on her personal and rising Fashion career  

A short youtube clip of Prime Minister Kevin Rudd's apology to the indigenous nation [a href=\"http://youtube.com/watch?v=uERSO_9M75k&feature=related]http://youtube.com/watch?v=uERSO_9M75k&feature=related[/url]
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: TechTalk on June 08, 2008, 05:58:04 pm
Quote
So Tech, does hasselblad have a forum? . . . is it open to the public? and if it's not their forum then their name is on it so I assume they have some say in how what is presented, at least I would if my name brand was on the masthead.

It doesn't matter to me, other than I find it strange how Hasselblad markets their product and through the years they have sent out a mixed message over close open platforms and now even closed or open information.

You mentioned earlier that the other back makers were getting a free ride from the Hasselblad camera but I understand that one back maker was instrumental is writing a lot of the firmware information that went into the h-1 and remember, the H series was originally sold and advertised as an open system which I believe went a long way into making the camera popular.

You can't blame some photographer's for feeling duped because if you bought, lets say a Leaf back and an H-1 waiting for the 28mm to come available, it probably was somewhat of a shock to find it it only is offered with a hasselblad back.

Personally I have no stake in any of this, but the moment Blad and Imacon came together you could just tell this was coming and even if the H-1-F or whatever it's called (BTW, what does F stand for  ?, it's still a step back for a 3rd party back user from the original h1-2.

If people don't like Blad, well they do it to themselves.

JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200420\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
So Tech, does hasselblad have a forum? No. if it's not their forum then their name is on it so I assume they have some say in how what is presented No. They don't. It is a user group effort. But you can make all the assumptions you like. If you make enough assumptions, you'll eventually hit on one where you assume correctly. This isn't one of them.

It doesn't matter to me Really? I find it strange how Hasselblad markets their product and through the years they have sent out a mixed message over close open platforms The marketing (advertising, brochures, events to promote current products) seems pretty conventional. Since you weren't specific, I'm forced to assume (I hate to assume, so please correct me if I'm wrong) that what you find strange are the choices they've made regarding what products to sell and which to discontinue. Hasselblad could have chosen to continue to shoot themselves in the foot financially by making money losing products to support other companies profitable products or they could have done what Kyocera did with Contax and simply withdraw from the medium-format camera market completely. They chose a path that made long-term business sense and continued to make a camera system to strengthen and support products on which they could make a profit and survive. The benefit of continuing to produce a camera system to Hasselblad back owners is that the integrated system has provided a wider range of features (auto lens corrections, GPS, more camera control abilities from the capture software, enhanced focusing accuracy, integrated power from body to back, ability to control back functions and menu from camera controls, a revolutionary optical design in the 28mm that incorporates auto digital lens correction into the optical design). The benefit to 3rd party back owners of their decision not to follow Contax, Bronica and Fuji to the graveyard of completely dead medium-format SLR systems is the continued availability of new lenses and accessories for their discontinued camera models. The H1 and H2 were offered until they became too much of a drain on finances and resources and were discontinued. That's how product life cycles tend to work. they have sent out a mixed message over... closed or open information I've never seen any message of any kind from Hasselblad regarding internet message board forums. They have no involvement in any forum and don't appear to have any past or current interest in them. What mixed message is it that you're referring to?

I understand that one back maker was instrumental is writing a lot of the firmware information that went into the h-1 A myth. Teleca Systems in Sweden supplied the electronics, camera software and communications interface for the H1. In the early stages of development Hasselblad invited Kodak, Phase One and other digital back makers to provide input as to what they would like to see in the way of interface design, contracted with Teleca to design and implement the interface and protocols and back makers wrote firmware for their own products that allowed interfacing with Hasselblad/Teleca's design. That individuals and companies develop an exaggerated sense of their own self-importance and contributions to a project is pretty common. Fish always seem to grow bigger the more time that passes after they're caught and consumed. and remember, the H series was originally sold and advertised as an open system which I believe went a long way into making the camera popular I remember the H1 system attracting attention and buyers due to having the most modern design available in medium-format with noticeable improvement in autofocus, electronics and integration. The new leaf shutter system designed and made by Hasselblad also helped draw buyers that didn't want focal plane shutter Contax and Mamiya 645 cameras. The quality and variety of the lenses including the 35mm, zoom and after a long wait the 120mm macro with autofocus from infinity to 1:1 were major considerations in buyer decisions. I don't recall that it was any more "open" than other cameras that it competed with at the time, so I'm not sure how that contributed to whatever popularity it enjoyed. Were other brands and models less "open" making them less attractive and less popular?

You can't blame some photographer's for feeling duped because if you bought, lets say a Leaf back and an H-1 waiting for the 28mm to come available Who buys a camera based on speculation of a future lens that doesn't exist from any maker, has never been attempted by any maker because it is extraordinarily complex, difficult and expensive to design and make (especially for a very limited market) and wasn't leaked or even hinted at by the maker prior to debut? I can certainly recall people wishing that someone would make a lens that wide for a medium-format SLR, but I don't recall any suggestion by Hasselblad they were going to do so prior to the announcement at Photokina. I congratulate Mamiya and Hasselblad for the effort required to create such a difficult focal length lens for a medium-format SLR. Mamiya chose a traditional optical design approach and though the lens is bigger, heavier, slower, lacks a filter mount, and is more expensive compared to Hasselblad's design--they did pull it off, giving competition to Hasselblad and that's a good thing. The Hasselblad design was unconventional, being the first consumer lens designed with some optical aberrations being corrected through automatic digital operations in image processing, rather than by the centuries-old tradition of using optical methods. Such a radical departure was bound to create discussion, but the discussion has revolved around what capture devices the lens is compatible with, rather than the unique new path in lens design that has now been opened. As for anyone feeling "duped", making a purchase based on something that doesn't exist, but perhaps-maybe-could be available in the future, could leave one being "duped" by their own speculations. Did you buy your Contax with the speculation that they would continue making camera bodies, and lenses and accessories and maybe someday a 28mm lens? If so, do you feel duped? I don't know, maybe you purchased after it became a dead camera system. That would be one sure way not to be disappointed by end-of-life product decisions and speculation of future products.

the moment Blad and Imacon came together you could just tell this was coming Actually, if you were following what was happening in the medium-format camera business (it is a real business, by the way, requiring tough financial decisions) you could see what was coming well before Hasselblad and Imacon merged. With manufacturers going belly-up and Hasselblad, Mamiya and Rollei facing severe financial losses--potential bankruptcy, sale, or reorganization--due to severe decline in demand and market for all medium-format cameras resulting in continual and growing debt loads. Either medium-format cameras would cease to exist or be partnered with revenue streams from profitable partners or products. Such is life in the world of business investment. Investors invest to get a return and will only tolerate losing money for a limited (though variable) period of time. BTW, what does F stand for  ? Your smile is nice, but you may have jaundice... or perhaps just a jaundiced view. it's still a step back for a 3rd party back user from the original h1-2 Yes. It is. And a step forward for Hasselblad back users.

If people don't like Blad, well they do it to themselves. That could be read as people cause themselves not to like Hasselblad--but I don't think that's what you meant to imply. Of course there are people in the world that are so focused on their own desires that they are unable to see beyond them and though these folks are often rather vocal when their desires are not met, they are not the majority. However, some very reasonable people are upset with Hasselblad because they don't understand why they would discontinue products they own or may wish to buy--or because there is a product they want to buy which is not compatible. I understand this and Hasselblad would be wiser, in my opinion, if they simply had a more straightforward dialogue with customers. I would have preferred to have them tell the simple truth, that medium-format cameras are money losers and they can't afford to keep making them to support revenue streams for other companies. But it seems that few manufacturers are that open or specific about what is profitable and what's not in their product offerings--Hasselblad is no exception, but I wish they were. It would save me a great deal of time and typing. Anyway, as you see... I've given my last few words on this post to lend weight to whatever low opinions you have formed of Hasselblad. I think they are a bright group of people that love photography and try hard to produce great products. Often they succeed in their many and varied efforts and sometimes fall short--as do I.

Best wishes to you and yours.
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: eronald on June 08, 2008, 06:21:55 pm
Anecdote:
 At the photokina press conference, the H CEO speaks about the perceived value of the H product. Later, sipping champagne with a stylish photographer and a model on the H booth; I believe both have just given a "performance" of  what a shoot looks like. We discuss the  H and one issue at the time being their high pricing compared to 35mm systems. And now the smart blond model pipes up: In every area there needs to be an elite product . Somehow  I think she perfectly got it.

Fashion is best understood by the fashionistas, no ?



Edmund
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: Sean H on June 08, 2008, 06:43:11 pm
David,

that was thoughtful and well said. Thanks for doing that.

BTW, your photos on the boats were stunning.


Sean
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: josayeruk on June 08, 2008, 06:52:04 pm
Quote
So Tech, does hasselblad have a forum? No. if it's not their forum then their name is on it so I assume they have some say in how what is presented No. They don't. It is a user group effort. But you can make all the assumptions you like. If you make enough assumptions, you'll eventually hit on one where you assume correctly. This isn't one of them.

Best wishes to you and yours.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200473\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Bravo.

Jo S.x
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: SeanFS on June 08, 2008, 06:57:53 pm
Quote
Why? It's absolutely wretched.  Really difficult to use and looks like in was designed in 1994 and never updated subsequently.
Phocus is a huge improvement [if you have a Mac, tough if you use PCs], but is still rather clumsy and seriously lacking when you compare in to Bridge/ACR and Lightroom. Workflow seems a bit sad next to Adobe's stuff and considering the price of the cameras, you'd expect, top notch software to go with it, which is sadly not the case. Phocus seems somewhat unfinished to my mind. Roll on v2, but probably not this decade. 

Nice shots BTW
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200356\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I have used flexcolour for a couple of years now and it is very powerful. it took a while to get used to it but I find it far easier to use than capture one( which I use all the time with Canon cameras) - and, and far more stable, in fact , rock solid( capture one 4 has unexpectedly quit should be changed to predictably quit!) with a real depth to colour and file quality. It has also been constantly upgraded to the point it produces  state of the art images out of my four year old Imacon back.
Phocus only runs on Leopard, which I haven't upgraded to yet for various reasons so I haven't had a  chance to really compare, but it looks like it has addressed all the handling quirks Flexcolour is supposed to have - I think its all the floating palates that annoy most people , I always seem to have the wrong ones up!
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: elitegroup on June 08, 2008, 08:24:50 pm
Quote
David,

that was thoughtful and well said. Thanks for doing that.

BTW, your photos on the boats were stunning.
Sean
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200484\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You are very welcome and Thank you  
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: jjj on June 08, 2008, 08:30:03 pm
Quote
I have used flexcolour for a couple of years now and it is very powerful. it took a while to get used to it but I find it far easier to use than capture one( which I use all the time with Canon cameras) - and, and far more stable, in fact , rock solid( capture one 4 has unexpectedly quit should be changed to predictably quit!) with a real depth to colour and file quality. It has also been constantly upgraded to the point it produces  state of the art images out of my four year old Imacon back.
Phocus only runs on Leopard, which I haven't upgraded to yet for various reasons so I haven't had a  chance to really compare, but it looks like it has addressed all the handling quirks Flexcolour is supposed to have - I think its all the floating palates that annoy most people , I always seem to have the wrong ones up!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200489\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hmmm Capture1 another bit of clunky software by another image back company who cannot even make a Mac and a PC pro version with the same features.  

And even though you've used Flexcolur for several years Sean, you say you still constantly make errors. As I said before old fashioned and a badly designed interface, as if it wasn't, you wouldn't keeep making such basic mistakes.
Phocus is better, but things like no scrolling on the adjustments tab is simply amateurish.
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: SeanFS on June 08, 2008, 11:57:26 pm
Quote
Hmmm Capture1 another bit of clunky software by another image back company who cannot even make a Mac and a PC pro version with the same features.   

And even though you've used Flexcolur for several years Sean, you say you still constantly make errors. As I said before old fashioned and a badly designed interface, as if it wasn't, you wouldn't keeep making such basic mistakes.
Phocus is better, but things like no scrolling on the adjustments tab is simply amateurish.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200499\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes , true . I don't consider myself an real whiz at using any of the Raw conversion software I use as it keeps changing - at least Flexcolour has been consistent. ACR really is probably the best handling wise, but I don't use it unless really pushed for time as I don't like the way it clips subtle shades in highlight areas( on my Canon  1ds2 + 3 files anyway ).

Anyway , Getting back on track. Just want to chuck in my 2c of praise ( make that $100! )for David's  stunning pictures. They are  really impressive and it isn't just the camera.
I reckon the reason he had to leave NZ to go to Aus and produce work like that is no one much has the imagination to commission work like that here any more - too busy padding those head office expense accounts.
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: SeanFS on June 08, 2008, 11:59:37 pm
Quote
Hmmm Capture1 another bit of clunky software by another image back company who cannot even make a Mac and a PC pro version with the same features.   

And even though you've used Flexcolur for several years Sean, you say you still constantly make errors. As I said before old fashioned and a badly designed interface, as if it wasn't, you wouldn't keeep making such basic mistakes.
Phocus is better, but things like no scrolling on the adjustments tab is simply amateurish.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200499\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes , true . I don't consider myself an real whiz at using any of the Raw conversion software I use though as it keeps changing - at least Flexcolour has been consistent. ACR really is probably the best handling wise, but I don't use it unless really pushed for time as I don't like the way it clips subtle shades in highlight areas( on my Canon  1ds2 + 3 files anyway ).Not to mention it doesn't work with Hasselblad files anyway.

Anyway , Getting back on track. Just want to chuck in my 2c of praise ( make that $100! )for David's  stunning pictures. They are  really impressive and it isn't just the camera.
I reckon the reason he had to leave NZ to go to Aus and produce work like that is no one much has the imagination to commission work like that here any more - too busy padding those head office expense accounts.
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: James R Russell on June 09, 2008, 12:50:12 am
Tech,

Well, your obviously more in the know than I am and that's good, because the small amount of information I receive is from manufacturers, reps or dealers, usually when I'm buying something.

What I've been told are from people I know and I believe to be the truthful, but I'll admit it's second or third hand information.

I'm not implying your information is not valid, or not correct, in fact I appreciate your honest contribution,  though I would be interested to know who techtalk is and who we are speaking with.

Everybody has a reason to be on this forum.  Me, because I find some of it interesting, sometimes informative, or usually because it just gives me a 5 minute break from my varied duties.

I do see a turn in this  medium format section where it has become less about photography and more about the makers and sellers specific interests and I think that lessens photographer's contributions.

Some of this section is interesting, but there is more and more instances where it's occupied by  sales messages (not to imply your post was about sales because I don't believe it is).

I as well as anyone understand business and Hasselblad or any company can run theirs the way they see fit.

Whether anyone buys a blad or any camera makes no contribution to my financial or artistic well being.

Still I do expect any day to open this section and find it's it's only occupied by dealers, reps, techs, and manufacturer point people.  

JR

P.S.  I apologize for having a hand in taking the direction away from David's nice photography.
that's really where it should have stayed.





Quote
So Tech, does hasselblad have a forum? No. if it's not their forum then their name is on it so I assume they have some say in how what is presented No. They don't. It is a user group effort. But you can make all the assumptions you like. If you make enough assumptions, you'll eventually hit on one where you assume correctly. This isn't one of them.

It doesn't matter to me Really? I find it strange how Hasselblad markets their product and through the years they have sent out a mixed message over close open platforms The marketing (advertising, brochures, events to promote current products) seems pretty conventional. Since you weren't specific, I'm forced to assume (I hate to assume, so please correct me if I'm wrong) that what you find strange are the choices they've made regarding what products to sell and which to discontinue. Hasselblad could have chosen to continue to shoot themselves in the foot financially by making money losing products to support other companies profitable products or they could have done what Kyocera did with Contax and simply withdraw from the medium-format camera market completely. They chose a path that made long-term business sense and continued to make a camera system to strengthen and support products on which they could make a profit and survive. The benefit of continuing to produce a camera system to Hasselblad back owners is that the integrated system has provided a wider range of features (auto lens corrections, GPS, more camera control abilities from the capture software, enhanced focusing accuracy, integrated power from body to back, ability to control back functions and menu from camera controls, a revolutionary optical design in the 28mm that incorporates auto digital lens correction into the optical design). The benefit to 3rd party back owners of their decision not to follow Contax, Bronica and Fuji to the graveyard of completely dead medium-format SLR systems is the continued availability of new lenses and accessories for their discontinued camera models. The H1 and H2 were offered until they became too much of a drain on finances and resources and were discontinued. That's how product life cycles tend to work. they have sent out a mixed message over... closed or open information I've never seen any message of any kind from Hasselblad regarding internet message board forums. They have no involvement in any forum and don't appear to have any past or current interest in them. What mixed message is it that you're referring to?

I understand that one back maker was instrumental is writing a lot of the firmware information that went into the h-1 A myth. Teleca Systems in Sweden supplied the electronics, camera software and communications interface for the H1. In the early stages of development Hasselblad invited Kodak, Phase One and other digital back makers to provide input as to what they would like to see in the way of interface design, contracted with Teleca to design and implement the interface and protocols and back makers wrote firmware for their own products that allowed interfacing with Hasselblad/Teleca's design. That individuals and companies develop an exaggerated sense of their own self-importance and contributions to a project is pretty common. Fish always seem to grow bigger the more time that passes after they're caught and consumed. and remember, the H series was originally sold and advertised as an open system which I believe went a long way into making the camera popular I remember the H1 system attracting attention and buyers due to having the most modern design available in medium-format with noticeable improvement in autofocus, electronics and integration. The new leaf shutter system designed and made by Hasselblad also helped draw buyers that didn't want focal plane shutter Contax and Mamiya 645 cameras. The quality and variety of the lenses including the 35mm, zoom and after a long wait the 120mm macro with autofocus from infinity to 1:1 were major considerations in buyer decisions. I don't recall that it was any more "open" than other cameras that it competed with at the time, so I'm not sure how that contributed to whatever popularity it enjoyed. Were other brands and models less "open" making them less attractive and less popular?

You can't blame some photographer's for feeling duped because if you bought, lets say a Leaf back and an H-1 waiting for the 28mm to come available Who buys a camera based on speculation of a future lens that doesn't exist from any maker, has never been attempted by any maker because it is extraordinarily complex, difficult and expensive to design and make (especially for a very limited market) and wasn't leaked or even hinted at by the maker prior to debut? I can certainly recall people wishing that someone would make a lens that wide for a medium-format SLR, but I don't recall any suggestion by Hasselblad they were going to do so prior to the announcement at Photokina. I congratulate Mamiya and Hasselblad for the effort required to create such a difficult focal length lens for a medium-format SLR. Mamiya chose a traditional optical design approach and though the lens is bigger, heavier, slower, lacks a filter mount, and is more expensive compared to Hasselblad's design--they did pull it off, giving competition to Hasselblad and that's a good thing. The Hasselblad design was unconventional, being the first consumer lens designed with some optical aberrations being corrected through automatic digital operations in image processing, rather than by the centuries-old tradition of using optical methods. Such a radical departure was bound to create discussion, but the discussion has revolved around what capture devices the lens is compatible with, rather than the unique new path in lens design that has now been opened. As for anyone feeling "duped", making a purchase based on something that doesn't exist, but perhaps-maybe-could be available in the future, could leave one being "duped" by their own speculations. Did you buy your Contax with the speculation that they would continue making camera bodies, and lenses and accessories and maybe someday a 28mm lens? If so, do you feel duped? I don't know, maybe you purchased after it became a dead camera system. That would be one sure way not to be disappointed by end-of-life product decisions and speculation of future products.

the moment Blad and Imacon came together you could just tell this was coming Actually, if you were following what was happening in the medium-format camera business (it is a real business, by the way, requiring tough financial decisions) you could see what was coming well before Hasselblad and Imacon merged. With manufacturers going belly-up and Hasselblad, Mamiya and Rollei facing severe financial losses--potential bankruptcy, sale, or reorganization--due to severe decline in demand and market for all medium-format cameras resulting in continual and growing debt loads. Either medium-format cameras would cease to exist or be partnered with revenue streams from profitable partners or products. Such is life in the world of business investment. Investors invest to get a return and will only tolerate losing money for a limited (though variable) period of time. BTW, what does F stand for  ? Your smile is nice, but you may have jaundice... or perhaps just a jaundiced view. it's still a step back for a 3rd party back user from the original h1-2 Yes. It is. And a step forward for Hasselblad back users.

If people don't like Blad, well they do it to themselves. That could be read as people cause themselves not to like Hasselblad--but I don't think that's what you meant to imply. Of course there are people in the world that are so focused on their own desires that they are unable to see beyond them and though these folks are often rather vocal when their desires are not met, they are not the majority. However, some very reasonable people are upset with Hasselblad because they don't understand why they would discontinue products they own or may wish to buy--or because there is a product they want to buy which is not compatible. I understand this and Hasselblad would be wiser, in my opinion, if they simply had a more straightforward dialogue with customers. I would have preferred to have them tell the simple truth, that medium-format cameras are money losers and they can't afford to keep making them to support revenue streams for other companies. But it seems that few manufacturers are that open or specific about what is profitable and what's not in their product offerings--Hasselblad is no exception, but I wish they were. It would save me a great deal of time and typing. Anyway, as you see... I've given my last few words on this post to lend weight to whatever low opinions you have formed of Hasselblad. I think they are a bright group of people that love photography and try hard to produce great products. Often they succeed in their many and varied efforts and sometimes fall short--as do I.

Best wishes to you and yours.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200473\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: TechTalk on June 09, 2008, 01:42:42 am
Quote
Even if you know how to use a piece of crap well, it is still a piece of crap.  
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200419\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Oh there are more possibilities than the pearl of wisdom that you have blessed us with.

There are craftsmen and artists who, when faced with an unfamiliar tool, will take time, exercise patience, and learn how to get the most from any tool that is being used.

There are others who, when faced with an unfamiliar tool, will plunge ahead relying on their current knowledge and skill and if the tool doesn't function in the manner expected--they blame the designer of the tool for their frustration.

We have probably all met both of the above, but it is the later which lends credence to the old proverb "A poor workman blames his tools".

I've read all of your previous posts on the Phocus 1.0 thread and the ones that you posted here in regard to Capture One, FlexColor and Phocus. I wish you the best of luck in your future attempts to use and evaluate the tools that you encounter and require.

I'd like to congratulate David on the beautiful work. All the more remarkable for the use of new equipment and software with little training. You did a great job of making it all (camera, lighting, model, composition) work for you.
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: TechTalk on June 09, 2008, 01:56:20 am
Quote
P.S.  I apologize for having a hand in taking the direction away from David's nice photography.
that's really where it should have stayed.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200522\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'd like to join you in that sentiment. Enjoyed the video of the shoot also!
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: mcfoto on June 09, 2008, 02:43:32 am
Hi
When it comes to the software that comes with digital backs & with the success of LR how can they compete? Even Phase One hasn't released there new pro version which I think is only a few months away. Having talked to the Phase rep from Denmark last week in Brisbane they are excited to have some type of relationship with Microsoft which could be a real plus for Phase One. I feel Leaf has done an excellent job with version 11. And when the new Phase SW comes out, I hope it will support both the Canon 1Ds3 & ZD in  tethered. I was at the launch of the H3DII last Oct in Sydney & they showed Phocus. It looks like LR & 7 months later there is only a beta version? LR will have 2.0 out by August. Will LR go tethered, who knows & there are many waiting.  I thought with the ZD that the MAC group was smart to give a full version of LR with each purchase. Sinar is just coming out with there new SW.

Denis
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: dwdallam on June 09, 2008, 03:36:38 am
That's a nice explanation and I agree with it. I only meant that the aboriginal peoples lives were very different in colonial days compared to the descendants of aboriginal people, especially as time flows along and all people, European included, become more homogenized and less homogeneous. We have no idea how it must have been for those original people to be conquered as they were. That's all I meant really. I mean I live in the United States and we have the same history with our "Indians." But I agree that the damage done lingers still today in many ways for the descendants of original people who suffered colonialism.

So I see your point for sure.

Quote
Thanks Doug for sharing your perception.

There is a lot of history associated with the word aboriginal here in Australia. The word in it self is just a definition as you described for 'first or earliest known'.

You mentioned that the association of the word aboriginal is an insult, this saddens me   

To understand where this negative connotation was derived we must look back into historic colonial policies of this great wide land. At Edith Cowan University in 2003 I enrolled in the Photomedia Major where I studied a unit on the mechanics and effects of Colonialism. One of the major points for me was the formula the colonials used to inhabit a new continent. First the native peoples must be conquered systematically through a campaign of somatic warfare, the most effective form of  suppression was to take away their culture, language, traditions and sense of identity. A vanquished people are easier to manipulate, allowing free access to seize the land, its wealth and resources etc.
 
Unfortunately a lost, suppressed and broken people are susceptible victims of the lower socio economic class structure and face the debilitating effects of low self esteem and loss of self worth etc.

As an indigenous native of Aotearoa (the land of the long white cloud or New Zealand) I have an understanding of the process as my own people seek to restore their language, culture, values and more importantly their sense of self identity.

The negative association of the word aboriginal is a reflection of old colonial policies e.g. disempowering, marginalizing, silencing, subordinating, less than and so on.

With the prime ministers apology to the indigenous nation, the first great step in the healing process of the collective consciousness of the care takers of this great land I hope that finally the association of this word will expound a new meaning of pride and self worth.

As an artist/photographer I stand witness to a time of change in this country, there is opportunity to contribute to this movement through ones talents/abilities. I hope to shoot a Dreamtime Fashion editorial out in the The kimberlies in Western Australia infusing the ancient culture & stories of the indigenous peoples embodied in young Emily Cattermole's unique European/Australian and Aboriginal heritage. All I need now is the funding   

I honor Emily's heritage and wish her well on her personal and rising Fashion career   

A short youtube clip of Prime Minister Kevin Rudd's apology to the indigenous nation http://youtube.com/watch?v=uERSO_9M75k&feature=related (http://youtube.com/watch?v=uERSO_9M75k&feature=related)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200432\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: dwdallam on June 09, 2008, 03:40:00 am
I have a question because I read the MF thread a lot, but I don't usually post, since I don't own one and they seem to be a completely different world. Still, I am drawn to MF, and maybe because I am shooting more people these days and less of other things, and MF is suppose to be "the thing" for people type photography of this sort.

So in a very simplified way, what would be the visual difference between these shots if they were taken side by side with a 1DS3 using the same type of lighting, given correct exposures for both cameras?

Thanks
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: Dustbak on June 09, 2008, 03:42:46 am
Quote
Hmmm Capture1 another bit of clunky software by another image back company who cannot even make a Mac and a PC pro version with the same features.   

And even though you've used Flexcolur for several years Sean, you say you still constantly make errors. As I said before old fashioned and a badly designed interface, as if it wasn't, you wouldn't keeep making such basic mistakes.
Phocus is better, but things like no scrolling on the adjustments tab is simply amateurish.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200499\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I still work with Flexcolor. It looks old, the GUI is not in fashion with what is currently commonplace. Some functionality has been implemented akwardly but it works. Without hickup and errors.

I like Flexcolor over Phocus at this moment. I find Phocus sluggish, error prone (but that is probably because I tried using it with my 384 which I shouldn't and se the CF39 instead). I probably need some more time with it and a couple of more updates.

Point is, I cannot have hickups, errors or other delaying stuff when I am working and having people looking over my shoulder.

This is also exactly why it took a long time before I switched from LC8 to LC10 when I still used Leaf.

Now if Phocus would be; faster, carry the promised firmware upgrades (ISO800/60sec exposure) and as stable as Flexcolor I would start to try it now and than during shoots where I work alone.

I don't make mistakes with Flexcolor even if I have only been using it for about a year now. To be frank I don't know why people are so negative about Flexcolor. Yes it misses some things I would like but it is dependable.

I am more upset about not being able to read native Hasselblad files in ACR or the fact I cannot generate DNG's with the chosen amount of DAC into the DNG file. This is effectively blocking my PS workflow or at least with the best possible quality of file.

How in heavens name did I get sofar OT?      

Sorry about that.
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: Streetshooter on June 09, 2008, 04:11:42 am
"Still I do expect any day to open this section and find it's it's only occupied by dealers, reps, techs, and manufacturer point people."

I wholeheartedly agree on this sentiment. For anybody promoting or defending a particular brand it would inspire a bit more confidence if we knew where the posters were coming from. TechTalk and JoeSayer can we see your work, please ?

Best

Pete
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: thsinar on June 09, 2008, 06:10:39 am
Thanks for this very interesting historical explanation of what was and is the meaning of "aboriginal".

Thierry

Addendum: and yes, I join my voice to the others for your outstanding shots.

Quote
....

There is a lot of history associated with the word aboriginal here in Australia. The word in it self is just a definition as you described for 'first or earliest known'.
 
....

A short youtube clip of Prime Minister Kevin Rudd's apology to the indigenous nation http://youtube.com/watch?v=uERSO_9M75k&feature=related (http://youtube.com/watch?v=uERSO_9M75k&feature=related)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200432\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: josayeruk on June 09, 2008, 10:23:42 am
Quote
"Still I do expect any day to open this section and find it's it's only occupied by dealers, reps, techs, and manufacturer point people."

I wholeheartedly agree on this sentiment. For anybody promoting or defending a particular brand it would inspire a bit more confidence if we knew where the posters were coming from. TechTalk and JoeSayer can we see your work, please ?

Best

Pete
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200537\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Actually no you can't.  I am new to the business with few clients and I doubt they would be happy if I posted commercial material.

If you wanna see pictures of my horses then you are more than welcome?  

If it becomes mandatory to do so then I will happily unregister.  I get enough spam as it is without leaving myself more open.

Okey dokey?

Jo S.x

PS And its Jo, not Joe.  Important difference.  
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: TMARK on June 09, 2008, 11:08:03 am
Wow.  This was a nice place to take a break while running a batch but the snide bullshit ruins it for me.  Really.
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: jonstewart on June 09, 2008, 11:36:27 am
Quote
Actually no you can't.  I am new to the business with few clients and I doubt they would be happy if I posted commercial material.

If you wanna see pictures of my horses then you are more than welcome? 

If it becomes mandatory to do so then I will happily unregister.  I get enough spam as it is without leaving myself more open.

Okey dokey?

Jo S.x

PS And its Jo, not Joe.  Important difference. 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200567\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I feel I have to support Jo here, partly because I'm in a similar commercial position. It's always a cheap fallback to ask to see photos (sort of thing happens on dpreview!), and not consider the merits of the arguments being put forward, because that's too cognitively demanding.

I might disagree with Jo on a number of issues  but I respect her (?) right to put such issues and have considered opinions whether I agree with them or not.
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: eronald on June 09, 2008, 11:54:34 am
Quote
Actually no you can't.  I am new to the business with few clients and I doubt they would be happy if I posted commercial material.

If you wanna see pictures of my horses then you are more than welcome? 

If it becomes mandatory to do so then I will happily unregister.  I get enough spam as it is without leaving myself more open.

Okey dokey?

Jo S.x

PS And its Jo, not Joe.  Important difference. 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200567\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Actually, I'd be quite happy to see images of your horses, your dog, or the street in front of your house -  Not as an obligation but because it gives us a sense of the fact that what we do here in the end is making images.

I have systematically asked people who want my Phase profiles to send me images (under non-release). I have found that those who send the images are usually extremely interested in color quality and carefully evaluate the profiles, others are geerally a dead loss.

The "Recent Works" thread here is now at about 200 000 views, which shows that we are here as much for the art as for the tech stuff.

Edmund

Edmund
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: James R Russell on June 09, 2008, 12:08:45 pm
Quote
I have a question because I read the MF thread a lot, but I don't usually post, since I don't own one and they seem to be a completely different world. Still, I am drawn to MF, and maybe because I am shooting more people these days and less of other things, and MF is suppose to be "the thing" for people type photography of this sort.

So in a very simplified way, what would be the visual difference between these shots if they were taken side by side with a 1DS3 using the same type of lighting, given correct exposures for both cameras?

Thanks
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=200535\")


To only speak to my work, not much difference, but that depends on the subject, the lens, the workflow, the expectations.

This is an approx. crop of the different formats

(http://www.russellrutherford.com/formats.jpg)

It would make you think that the difference in format size is 200% and in some instances, viewing one to one on a monitor you can lean back, light up a cigar and feel pretty good about your medium format purchase.

Then those moments pass and you have that day when you start viewing this as a client.   When you select for your website, an awards ceremony, a print showing, then you don't look 1 to 1 you look for "the shot".

At that point the shot is all that matters and just like a client , you probably won't care if the pants stitching has 25% more detail, but you will notice if you missed the smile, or didn't catch the emotion.

You also have to remember that medium format is not true medium format anymore.  It's at best close to a 645 frame which from the film days was the smallest of the medium formats though we are still working off legacy lens sizes which don't always translate well to cropped frames.

This would be different if the sensor sizes were 6x7 or even full frame 645 and the lenses were faster and more comprehensive.  F 2.0's, tilt shifts in all multiple formats would make the almost 645 digital formats more useable, but once again, we are still working from legacy film sizes, with new digital formats.

Where I see a difference in the "look" of medium format vs. a Canon dslr is less in the format and more in the overall sharpness from Canon's agressive AA filter.

The Leica M-8 has no filter and gives a sharper look, though not really a more detailed image if that makes any sense.

[a href=\"http://www.russellrutherford.com/final_leica.jpg]http://www.russellrutherford.com/final_leica.jpg[/url]

Still, that doesn't mean that medium format doesn't have a place as in my work the main reason I use it is for it's ability to tether, though overall in the final look of the photograph, there is not that much difference between a cropped 645 and a full frame 35mm.

Others will see this differently.

JR
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: rsmphoto on June 09, 2008, 05:41:21 pm
deleted
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: josayeruk on June 09, 2008, 06:23:37 pm
Quote
Actually, I'd be quite happy to see images of your horses, your dog, or the street in front of your house -  Not as an obligation but because it gives us a sense of the fact that what we do here in the end is making images.

I have systematically asked people who want my Phase profiles to send me images (under non-release). I have found that those who send the images are usually extremely interested in color quality and carefully evaluate the profiles, others are geerally a dead loss.

The "Recent Works" thread here is now at about 200 000 views, which shows that we are here as much for the art as for the tech stuff.

Edmund

Edmund
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200580\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Ok!  Its a deal, Ill post up the boys at the weekend.  
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: jjj on June 09, 2008, 11:17:24 pm
Quote
There are craftsmen and artists who, when faced with an unfamiliar tool, will take time, exercise patience, and learn how to get the most from any tool that is being used.
And there are those who quickly realise that some tools are not as good as others and will prefer to use the better tools.    

Quote
There are others who, when faced with an unfamiliar tool, will plunge ahead relying on their current knowledge and skill and if the tool doesn't function in the manner expected--they blame the designer of the tool for their frustration.
Quite correctly in the case of Hasselblad software IMO, esp. as there are other superior tools all ready on sale.   And being different is certainly not synonymous with being better.
The fact that Phocus lacks things as basic as scroll bars on the adjustments tab just shows how unnecessarily clumsy it is. But it is a version 1.0, so if they improve it like Adobe improved LR from 1.0, then there is hope, I didn't use LR for work until v1.3 as there were too many annoying faults within programme and it was a bit slow too.  

Quote
We have probably all met both of the above, but it is the later which lends credence to the old proverb "A poor workman blames his tools".
You are forgetting that some tools are simply not very good. Even for the 'good' workman. On a similar note, I hated QuarkXpress with a passion as it was so awful and very rarely improved, simply because there was no real competition. InDesign gave Quark a well needed kicking up the fundament and the new version [Q8]out soon seems so much better than Quark used to be, mainly as a result of a superior product arriving and capturing large parts of its market. More Quark point updates in the last 6 years than the previous 16!

Quote
I've read all of your previous posts on the Phocus 1.0 thread and the ones that you posted here in regard to Capture One, FlexColor and Phocus. I wish you the best of luck in your future attempts to use and evaluate the tools that you encounter and require. [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200526\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Part of the problem in understanding Phocus, is that it behaves oddly, not better, oddly. Sorry for my not being dumb enough to realise that you have to import images that are already clearly visible in the programme, which is is anything but obvious or intuitive. A well designed programme shouldn't need very careful persual of the manual, in fact I seem to recall it doesn't even mention that you have to import images already on your machine and already visible in programme, which caught a few people out.
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: jjj on June 09, 2008, 11:20:17 pm
Quote
I still work with Flexcolor. It looks old, the GUI is not in fashion with what is currently commonplace. Some functionality has been implemented akwardly but it works. Without hickup and errors.
 
 I like Flexcolor over Phocus at this moment. I find Phocus sluggish, error prone (but that is probably because I tried using it with my 384 which I shouldn't and se the CF39 instead). I probably need some more time with it and a couple of more updates.
 
 Point is, I cannot have hickups, errors or other delaying stuff when I am working and having people looking over my shoulder.
 
 I don't make mistakes with Flexcolor even if I have only been using it for about a year now. To be frank I don't know why people are so negative about Flexcolor. Yes it misses some things I would like but it is dependable.
I dislike it as it is poorly designed. I resent the amount of time I have to spend at the computer and anything that decreases that time is good [take a bow Lightroom 1.3+] and  anything that sucks time deserves a good kicking.
 
 
Quote
I am more upset about not being able to read native Hasselblad files in ACR or the fact I cannot generate DNG's with the chosen amount of DAC into the DNG file. This is effectively blocking my PS workflow or at least with the best possible quality of file.[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200536\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
That's my main caveat with Hasselbald/Phocus. If one could use DAC with say LR/ACR, then so much time could be saved and also hard drive space. Ending up with 3 RAW files per image is untidy, shall we say.
 Not even sure why Hasselblad even waste money developing free software that will always be lacking compared to say what Adobe produces. Give Adobe, Apple etc the Algorithms and use the money elsewhere.
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: dwdallam on June 10, 2008, 04:20:32 am
Quote
To only speak to my work, not much difference, but that depends on the subject, the lens, the workflow, the expectations.


JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200583\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Thanks for that explanation. The image you offered just looks different to me than my 1DS3, but that may be processing too. It just looks like there is so much detail, like the detail your eye captures. It's as if there is so much detail it looks fake, because my mind says, "That's not a camera picture" because it's too "real." Interesting stuff.

What would be the best way to "fake" the look of a MF with my 1DS3? I'm thinking maybe turn all sharpening off in ACR and then use clarity only to sharpen, with some more subtle post, post processing in PS?

I get VERY inspired to do more people type photography when I see your MF guys stuff. I wish I were 30 again, not 46, just to explore this new found obsession of mine.
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: TechTalk on June 10, 2008, 03:30:26 pm
Quote
A well designed programme shouldn't need very careful persual of the manual, in fact I seem to recall it doesn't even mention that you have to import images already on your machine and already visible in programme, which caught a few people out.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200667\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
See attached... [attachment=6977:attachment]
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: pprdigital on June 10, 2008, 04:57:11 pm
Quote
A well designed programme shouldn't need very careful persual of the manual, in fact I seem to recall it doesn't even mention that you have to import images already on your machine and already visible in programme, which caught a few people out.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200667\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

In addition to it actually being in the manual, the notion that a well designed program shouldn't require someone to read a user manual is...hmmm...a questionable viewpoint in my mind. I can hardly think of any advanced, complex and powerful programs that allow the user to flourish without reading a manual or having hands-on training from an experienced resource.

They write the manual for a reason. Or would you rather they just not include one?    

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: Dustbak on June 10, 2008, 05:00:37 pm
Quote
In addition to it actually being in the manual, the notion that a well designed program shouldn't require someone to read a user manual is...hmmm...a questionable viewpoint in my mind. I can hardly think of any advanced, complex and powerful programs that allow the user to flourish without reading a manual or having hands-on training from an experienced resource.

They write the manual for a reason. Or would you rather they just not include one?   

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200798\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I cannot remember when I have last read a user manual for any software program not even Flexcolor

The only things I did do were to follow video courses for photoshop (hundreds of hours BTW).
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: pprdigital on June 10, 2008, 05:39:10 pm
Quote
I cannot remember when I have last read a user manual for any software program not even Flexcolor

The only things I did do were to follow video courses for photoshop (hundreds of hours BTW).
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200801\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well there you go.

I have to confess also, as much as I would like to champion the cause, I am not a manual reader. I hate reading them. But that doesn't mean that a program will be easy to pick up if I don't read it. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. Little differences that are not complicated and are sometimes actually easier than someone is used to, can really throw you, just because it's not what you're familiar with.

I never read the Flexcolor manual, but I know what every single tool does, and I know how to combine those tools for certain workflows which are not in the manual anyway - not by a long shot. I've never seen anyone demonstrate Flexcolor who understood how to show what you can do with it and provide the depth and the context in how and when you would use that particular tool or combination of tools.

I actually did read the Phocus manual....line by line. I think it might be the first time I've ever done that. And you know what? I am glad I did. I found the Phocus manual extremely well written, and easy to read. One of the reasons people don't like reading the manual is because the vast majority are poorly written or dense and complex (same thing). Who wants to try and wade through something like that?

We're all time stressed and we don't want to have to read manuals. And that's fine. As far as Phocus is concerned, it is modeled (loosely) after Lightroom, so many first time users will be familiar with it, at least to some extent. But sometimes little details or differences can throw you that are actually covered in the manual, as JJJ discovered.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: Nick-T on June 10, 2008, 11:46:14 pm
Quote
I have to confess also, as much as I would like to champion the cause, I am not a manual reader. I
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200810\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I read the manuals on other peoples' behalf

Nick-T
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: James R Russell on June 11, 2008, 12:14:50 am
Quote
I read the manuals on other peoples' behalf

Nick-T
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200853\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Nick,

Of course you do.

Most photographers can't read.

JR
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: Dustbak on June 11, 2008, 02:09:11 am
That's why we Hasselblad users do not have to read manuals Nick. We have got you
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: dwdallam on June 11, 2008, 07:14:28 am
Quote
Actually no you can't.  I am new to the business with few clients and I doubt they would be happy if I posted commercial material.

If you wanna see pictures of my horses then you are more than welcome? 

If it becomes mandatory to do so then I will happily unregister.  I get enough spam as it is without leaving myself more open.

Okey dokey?

Jo S.x

PS And its Jo, not Joe.  Important difference. 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200567\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


How come it's ok for other commercial photographers to post their work online and in books? Do they get special permission from Donald Trump and AMD, as Joe McNally, Brian Peterson, et al. comes to mind?
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: josayeruk on June 11, 2008, 08:53:34 am
Quote
How come it's ok for other commercial photographers to post their work online and in books? Do they get special permission from Donald Trump and AMD, as Joe McNally, Brian Peterson, et al. comes to mind?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200891\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I've no idea.

I'm simply explaining my circumstances.

Jo S.x
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: TMARK on June 11, 2008, 10:48:35 am
Quote
How come it's ok for other commercial photographers to post their work online and in books? Do they get special permission from Donald Trump and AMD, as Joe McNally, Brian Peterson, et al. comes to mind?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200891\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Its a question of contract.  I can publish, for self promotion only and limited to my web site and limited run comp cards, within the first year that the ad is first published.  I can also publish the entire ad for self promotion, which is a sort of limited license to reproduce the client's copyrighted derivitive work, which is of course derivitive of my copyrighted photo I shot for the client.  

I show commercial work in my commercial book, but I don't think commercial work shows much because you are shooting someone elses comp.  Would you or anyone want to see a lifestyle ad for a cell phone carrier?  I don't want to see it and I shot it.  Editorial work is often "embargoed", which means it can't be published for a certain amount of time, including on the web.  Hell, I rarely post anything in the forums because these are gear forums, not photo forums.  Even the "recent works" thread is usually about the gear, not the image.  Which is why no women post.  They don't care about the gear, much.  They just like the picture.  

There is also the question of remaining anonamous.  If you post an ad you shot, it is much easier to figure out who you are by searching PDN's "who's shooting what" etc.  I've witnessed the inner workings of an ad agency as they researched a photographer on the web.  They found some forum entries that were, well, negative and argumenative, then asked why he spent so much time on forums and they laughed at him.  He didn't get the gig.  A very nice female photographer who has NO web presence other than her web site, awards, news stories and interviews got the job.
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: samuel_js on June 11, 2008, 02:14:57 pm
Quote
Its a question of contract.  I can publish, for self promotion only and limited to my web site and limited run comp cards, within the first year that the ad is first published.  I can also publish the entire ad for self promotion, which is a sort of limited license to reproduce the client's copyrighted derivitive work, which is of course derivitive of my copyrighted photo I shot for the client. 

I show commercial work in my commercial book, but I don't think commercial work shows much because you are shooting someone elses comp.  Would you or anyone want to see a lifestyle ad for a cell phone carrier?  I don't want to see it and I shot it.  Editorial work is often "embargoed", which means it can't be published for a certain amount of time, including on the web.  Hell, I rarely post anything in the forums because these are gear forums, not photo forums.  Even the "recent works" thread is usually about the gear, not the image.  Which is why no women post.  They don't care about the gear, much.  They just like the picture. 

There is also the question of remaining anonamous.  If you post an ad you shot, it is much easier to figure out who you are by searching PDN's "who's shooting what" etc.  I've witnessed the inner workings of an ad agency as they researched a photographer on the web.  They found some forum entries that were, well, negative and argumenative, then asked why he spent so much time on forums and they laughed at him.  He didn't get the gig.  A very nice female photographer who has NO web presence other than her web site, awards, news stories and interviews got the job.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200910\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'm 100% sure they gave her the job because they liked her pictures better.
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: TMARK on June 11, 2008, 02:34:55 pm
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I'm 100% sure they gave her the job because they liked her pictures better.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200953\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That too!  She is a fantastic photographer, shoots with an old Mamiya AF and an OLD 500 EL.  But the first guy was essentially ruled out as a candidate from his web presence (they didn't even ask him to submit a bid) which had them looking at other people. In fairness, his stuff was pretty good too.
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: Dale Allyn on June 11, 2008, 05:26:52 pm
Quote
I've witnessed the inner workings of an ad agency as they researched a photographer on the web. They found some forum entries that were, well, negative and argumenative, then asked why he spent so much time on forums and they laughed at him. He didn't get the gig. A very nice female photographer who has NO web presence other than her web site, awards, news stories and interviews got the job.

Quote
That too!  She is a fantastic photographer, shoots with an old Mamiya AF and an OLD 500 EL.  But the first guy was essentially ruled out as a candidate from his web presence (they didn't even ask him to submit a bid) which had them looking at other people. In fairness, his stuff was pretty good too.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200954\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Sounds like more of an argument for using good etiquette and treating others with respect on forums, rather than an argument for hiding one's real name.

 
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: TMARK on June 11, 2008, 07:31:23 pm
Quote
Sounds like more of an argument for using good etiquette and treating others with respect on forums, rather than an argument for hiding one's real name.

 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200974\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Perhaps, but my take away is that the only face I want to present to a client is one I craft, and I'd like to post without worrying about how it reflects in a google search.
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: Dale Allyn on June 11, 2008, 07:38:04 pm
Quote
Perhaps, but my take away is that the only face I want to present to a client is one I craft, and I'd like to post without worrying about how it reflects in a google search.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200995\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I wasn't being critical of your anonymity (although for some people it can lead to less-the-stellar posts), but suggesting that one's on-line "personality" ought to be polite and respectful as though people were sitting in a room and talking with each other.

Wishful thinking, I know.

Cheers,

Dale
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: TMARK on June 11, 2008, 07:45:59 pm
Quote
I wasn't being critical of your anonymity (although for some people it can lead to less-the-stellar posts), but suggesting that one's on-line "personality" ought to be polite and respectful as though people were sitting in a room and talking with each other.

Wishful thinking, I know.

Cheers,

Dale
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200996\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I didn't take it as criticism at all, and I agree that people should keep it polite, even when others aren't.  Really.  This place has (mostly) avoided the nasties due to, in my opinion, the fact that many of the people here are professionals or are somehow more evolved than the broader net of a dpreview.

T
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: jjj on June 11, 2008, 07:56:52 pm
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See attached... [attachment=6977:attachment]
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200783\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Seeing as I said
"A well designed programme shouldn't need very careful persual of the manual, in fact I seem to recall it doesn't even mention that you have to import images already on your machine and already visible in programme, which caught a few people out."
and as that page of manual is about importing files to your machine [which is what you would expect] from an card/camera/imagebank and does not mention anything about importing images already on your computer, it simply illustrates my point.
Now if Phocus did not display the images on my computer within programme, one would think, maybe it's like Aperture/Lightroom and you need to import images into the software. But it does display your images that are on your hard drive and that is why it is subsequently a tad confusing. Besides it's not actually imorting, but converting the files to an editable form, which is not the normal way of dealing with camera files.
The problem with many manuals is they are written by people who are very familiar the programme and they often forget to mention funamental things which can be very important and which are not known by new users.
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: jjj on June 11, 2008, 08:09:29 pm
Quote
In addition to it actually being in the manual,
Where? It's not on page linked above.

Quote
the notion that a well designed program shouldn't require someone to read a user manual is...hmmm...a questionable viewpoint in my mind.
I didn't say one shouldn't read manuals, I was talking about a very, very basic attribute/operation of the  programme that is not obvious. For a more thorough understanding of programmes, yes a manual read is invaluable. But when the basics are confusing it's a good litmus test of the thought that went into a programme. Obviously if it's an area you don't anything about at all, then that's a different issue. Photoshop which apparently is insanely complicated, I managed to use that when I was still new to computers, so 15years later, I don't expect to stumble on getting an image into a programme. Having said that I asked an Apple chap a few ago on how one imported all your images on one's hard drive without doing it one folder at a time and he said it couldn't be done. And he was someone certified to train users in the programme, yet he didn't lknow what I consider to be a basic function.

Quote
They write the manual for a reason. Or would you rather they just not include one?    [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200798\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Well you obviously didn't bother to read my posts properly either, as I complained about something missing from manual, so rather obviously I read it. So why then infer I'm against manuals?
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: jjj on June 11, 2008, 08:23:35 pm
Quote
I didn't take it as criticism at all, and I agree that people should keep it polite, even when others aren't.
Online and real world arguments usually occur simply when people don't read posts carefully enough before replying or listening to what is said before answering. To illustrate, my two responses directly above were to people who didn't read carefully enough before responding.

Quote
This place has (mostly) avoided the nasties due to, in my opinion, the fact that many of the people here are professionals or are somehow more evolved than the broader net of a dpreview.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=200997\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Or that that most people here don't hide their identity!
Any photographer who comes up with weak excuses as to why they cannot show their work [and ones on another thread were really pathetic], is not someone who can be taken as seriously as those who who show their work, after all for all we know it's the pet cat posting.    
Besides, there's nothing to stop you showing  say personal work if your commercial work is 'sensitive' or too 'boring'. Though saying nothing you do professionally can be shown online is somewhat hard to believe. And if you are worried about being seen in a bad light via what you say on forums, be nice and there's no problem.  
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: TechTalk on June 11, 2008, 10:10:14 pm
Quote
Online and real world arguments usually occur simply when people don't read posts carefully enough before replying or listening to what is said before answering. To illustrate, my two responses directly above were to people who didn't read carefully enough before responding.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=201002\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Oh my poor dear friend. You struggle so valiantly to illuminate the world about you so that the blind may see what you see with such keen clarity.

But you struggle on despite being surrounded. Surrounded by the careless and clueless.

You're under siege my friend by careless and clueless software designers, careless and clueless technical writers, careless and clueless responders to your posts. How do you manage to tolerate so much mindless indifference to your mighty efforts to enlighten?

Give me some time to catch up with my other obligations and I'll see if I can join in your noble cause. I'll be back soon. I promise.
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: pprdigital on June 12, 2008, 12:04:19 am
Quote
Where? It's not on page linked above.

 I didn't say one shouldn't read manuals, I was talking about a very, very basic attribute/operation of the  programme that is not obvious. For a more thorough understanding of programmes, yes a manual read is invaluable. But when the basics are confusing it's a good litmus test of the thought that went into a programme. Obviously if it's an area you don't anything about at all, then that's a different issue. Photoshop which apparently is insanely complicated, I managed to use that when I was still new to computers, so 15years later, I don't expect to stumble on getting an image into a programme. Having said that I asked an Apple chap a few ago on how one imported all your images on one's hard drive without doing it one folder at a time and he said it couldn't be done. And he was someone certified to train users in the programme, yet he didn't lknow what I consider to be a basic function.

Well you obviously didn't bother to read my posts properly either, as I complained about something missing from manual, so rather obviously I read it. So why then infer I'm against manuals?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=201000\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You know, jjj, I started to write that I....respectfully....disagree. But upon further consideration, I'm gonna give you a point. File>import seems to have a certain level of acceptance in our industry. It is by no means universal, though. On that level, anything other would appear alien I suppose. There is a File>import in Phocus, but thus far, it has been greyed out in my use of the program. Perhaps someone has seen it enabled? Or maybe File>import is in place, awaiting activation in Phocus 1.1 for some reason.

I'm going to open my perspective and say that seeing files on a cf card in the program show up and not being able to do anything with them without reading the manual has....some merit. Is it a sin? I don't know. Maybe it could be more intuitive.  But now that you know, I don't see the big deal. I don't feel it means the program is poorly thought out - hardly the case. And, it's version 1.0. It's a start, and I feel it's a very good start. Some pretty considerable programs that are now considered smooth running machines fared about the same on V1.0 releases.

And yes, I did bother to read your post. Since the item you site is not actually missing from the manual, I think it's logical to presume you haven't read it.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: James R Russell on June 12, 2008, 12:37:06 am
Quote
You know, jjj, I started to write that I....respectfully....disagree. But upon further consideration, I'm gonna give you a point. File>import seems to have a certain level of acceptance in our industry. It is by no means universal, though. On that level, anything other would appear alien I suppose. There is a File>import in Phocus, but thus far, it has been greyed out in my use of the program. Perhaps someone has seen it enabled? Or maybe File>import is in place, awaiting activation in Phocus 1.1 for some reason.

I'm going to open my perspective and say that seeing files on a cf card in the program show up and not being able to do anything with them without reading the manual has....some merit. Is it a sin? I don't know. Maybe it could be more intuitive.  But now that you know, I don't see the big deal. I don't feel it means the program is poorly thought out - hardly the case. And, it's version 1.0. It's a start, and I feel it's a very good start. Some pretty considerable programs that are now considered smooth running machines fared about the same on V1.0 releases.

And yes, I did bother to read your post. Since the item you site is not actually missing from the manual, I think it's logical to presume you haven't read it.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=201046\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Steve,

Obviously you have a vested interest in learning all that is possible with the respective softwares to the brands you represent and should be commended for that.

Also for all of us that do professional imaging of our own photography we know that no single program, either propiretary to the manufacturer or 3rd party is perfect.

Still, if I understand the Hasselblad system correctly (and I'm not an expert on Hasselblad), for the files to work in 3rd party programs they need to be first converted to a dng . . . am I corrrect in this assumption?

Also if I understand this correctly, Hasselblad has multiple file formats for their previous legacy cameras?

Now this may seem like a small matter, but if your busy and work with a variety of clients and retouchers the first thing you find that workflow doesn't really stop at the processing stage.

Many clients and retouchers require a universal raw file even if the finished image is 90% ready for publication.

I routinely use multiple retouchers in our work, even on one image.  One is good on skin, the other hair, or even a third in image recontruction and manipulation.

Though a processed tiff can and should suffice, the added advantage of having a raw file available allows the retoucher to add detail in highlights or pull out some extra shadow if needed, or even do a mild form of hdr.

Even if I do all the post work myself, I also use other processors for a specific look.

RD is different than C-1 which is also different than lightroom.  Having to convert one or many dozens of files under deadline is more than a small issue.

As Hasselblad goes forward with their focus software I suggest they keep this in mind and change the original raw format so it will work in lightroom, photoshop, RD, C-1 and all the third party processors.

If I'm wrong on the hasselblad file format then I stand corrected.

JR
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: pprdigital on June 12, 2008, 01:07:04 am
Quote
Steve,

Obviously you have a vested interest in learning all that is possible with the respective softwares to the brands you represent and should be commended for that.

Also for all of us that do professional imaging of our own photography we know that no single program, either propiretary to the manufacturer or 3rd party is perfect.

Still, if I understand the Hasselblad system correctly (and I'm not an expert on Hasselblad), for the files to work in 3rd party programs they need to be first converted to a dng . . . am I corrrect in this assumption?

Also if I understand this correctly, Hasselblad has multiple file formats for their previous legacy cameras?

Now this may seem like a small matter, but if your busy and work with a variety of clients and retouchers the first thing you find that workflow doesn't really stop at the processing stage.

Many clients and retouchers require a universal raw file even if the finished image is 90% ready for publication.

I routinely use multiple retouchers in our work, even on one image.  One is good on skin, the other hair, or even a third in image recontruction and manipulation.

Though a processed tiff can and should suffice, the added advantage of having a raw file available allows the retoucher to add detail in highlights or pull out some extra shadow if needed, or even do a mild form of hdr.

Even if I do all the post work myself, I also use other processors for a specific look.

RD is different than C-1 which is also different than lightroom.  Having to convert one or many dozens of files under deadline is more than a small issue.

As Hasselblad goes forward with their focus software I suggest they keep this in mind and change the original raw format so it will work in lightroom, photoshop, RD, C-1 and all the third party processors.

If I'm wrong on the hasselblad file format then I stand corrected.

JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=201054\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

James:

Hasselblad (and formerly Imacon) has provided .FFF files as the eventual raw file format from very early on. 3FR has been an in-camera format (and DNG also, briefly) that utilizes a lossless compression scheme. So the actual raw file format has maintained itself up through today.

DNG was abandoned as an in-camera raw format due to write limitations and proved more resource-needy than was desired for rapid camera operation. Instead, the DNG format became an upon import option (or save to DNG at a later stage also). The DNG save still exists in Phocus.

Currently, the .FFF file is supported by Aperture - I'm not sure about Raw Developer. It's been a while since I've checked in with Brian. I do know that he supported the iXpress products in the past.

I agree universality (is that a word?) is a positive, and I hope that all of the medium format participants continue to strive for this. Slowly, slowly, it is becoming more universal. Not so long ago, none of the file formats from medium format products were compatible with any program but their own.

I also hope they continue to develop their own software programs.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: BJNY on June 12, 2008, 01:23:06 am
deleted
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: James R Russell on June 12, 2008, 01:26:57 am
Quote
James:


I agree universality (is that a word?) is a positive, and I hope that all of the medium format participants continue to strive for this. Slowly, slowly, it is becoming more universal. Not so long ago, none of the file formats from medium format products were compatible with any program but their own.

I also hope they continue to develop their own software programs.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=201057\")


Maybe, but with every Leaf, Phase, Canon and Leica file I have and presently use the files have worked in almost every processor I've tried  and I currently use CS1, CS3, LR, RD, C-1v4, so at this stage I wouldn't say, Canon, leaf, Leica, Phase files are an issue with 3rd party converters.

(Well I haven't tried Leaf in CS4 but the rest work as described.)

I know that anytime anyone says anything lately about hasselblad it's considered a big knock and it comes with a lot of blowback from certain people, but my comments are based on working with a lot of experience with varied client requests.

In fact on of the few retail projects we shoot is all processed in house by the retailer's pre press division (and they do a very good job).

They primarily work in C-1,  sometimes CS3 and will accept shot settings or side car files for refernce as they try very hard to match the vision the photographer intended.

To have to convert, then process, then deliver to a client like this adds days to the workflow and I think you can see the liability to hasselblads file formats.

Regardless, my point of this is to be constructive because it seems that since hasselblad is chaning their software, the logical step would be to develop a file format that is more universal, rather than proprietary.

I think you of all people know how overwhelmed most of us are with post production and anyting to make it easier is more than a plus, today it's mandatory.

This shoot was with two different cameras and processed mostly in lightroom, some in C1 V4 and  I could process the files side by side to match.

[a href=\"http://www.russellrutherford.com/desert_editorial/]http://www.russellrutherford.com/desert_editorial/[/url]

JR
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: TechTalk on June 12, 2008, 03:03:00 am
Quote
You know, jjj, I started to write that I....respectfully....disagree. But upon further consideration, I'm gonna give you a point. File>import seems to have a certain level of acceptance in our industry. It is by no means universal, though. On that level, anything other would appear alien I suppose. There is a File>import in Phocus, but thus far, it has been greyed out in my use of the program. Perhaps someone has seen it enabled? Or maybe File>import is in place, awaiting activation in Phocus 1.1 for some reason.

I'm going to open my perspective and say that seeing files on a cf card in the program show up and not being able to do anything with them without reading the manual has....some merit. Is it a sin? I don't know. Maybe it could be more intuitive.  But now that you know, I don't see the big deal. I don't feel it means the program is poorly thought out - hardly the case. And, it's version 1.0. It's a start, and I feel it's a very good start. Some pretty considerable programs that are now considered smooth running machines fared about the same on V1.0 releases.

And yes, I did bother to read your post. Since the item you site is not actually missing from the manual, I think it's logical to presume you haven't read it.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=201046\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The fine distinction that jjj is attempting to make is that the manual details the importing of 3FR files from the original storage device (CF card or Image Bank) into Phocus, but does not specify that 3FR files simply copied to the hard drive also need to be imported into Phocus. To quote jjj... "and as that page of manual is about importing files to your machine [which is what you would expect] from an card/camera/imagebank and does not mention anything about importing images already on your computer, it simply illustrates my point".

This is what the manual states in big bold type under the even bigger and bolder header title of IMPORTING CAPTURES... "Imported captures appear in the Thumbnail Browser as 3FR files for browsing. Selected files are then converted and stored as 3F files for editing and export." This is all contained in the large header for the page and is followed in the body with..."To import captures from a camera / CF card reader / ImageBank-II, proceed as follows:".

Since hard drive is not in the list, jjj assumes that for some reason the 3FR files that were copied over to the hard drive from the CF card no longer need to be imported into Phocus. He tries to make this appear logical with "that page of manual is about importing files to your machine [which is what you would expect]". The only problem is there is absolutely no logic whatever to his assertion or assumption. Let me explain: 1) Why do you need to "import" "files to your machine" when  they have already been copied from the CF card to the hard drive? They don't need to be "imported" to your hard drive if they are already there. So... 2) The Phocus manual is referring to importing compressed 3FR files into Phocus for editing as uncompressed 3F files. No special software is required to copy image files or any other document files to a hard drive. That is an operating system function and anyone with passing familiarity with using a computer knows this. But...3) jjj insists that this "is what you would expect." Well no, I don't think this is what would be expected and I'm surprised that jjj wants us to believe that is what he assumed. Because... 4) jjj is a fan of Lightroom. Lightroom also has an import function. It is used to import images into Lightroom--not to import images to the hard drive. The Lightroom manual chapter on importing starts with "Importing photos into the Adobe® Photoshop® Lightroom™ library is the first step in working with your photos. You can import photos directly from a camera, memory card reader, or other storage device." So... 5) What is the basis for jjj to claim "that page of manual is about importing files to your machine [which is what you would expect]"? The manual says "Phocus will import the selected files and process them into 3F files (thumbnails now lose the 3FR icon), automatically storing them in the selected folder" and "Imported captures appear in the Thumbnail Browser as 3FR files for browsing. Selected files are then converted and stored as 3F files for editing and export". Seems pretty clear to me that "import" in Phocus or Lightroom refer to importing images into the program and not the copying of images to the hard drive.

I really don't have any more time available for this now. I don't mind discussing and debating at some length with people that have put forth some effort to learn something about the topic of discussion, but doing it with someone that has glossed over a subject can be pretty tiring and boring.


[attachment=7008:attachment]  [attachment=7010:attachment]
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: TechTalk on June 12, 2008, 03:09:11 am
Quote
I know that anytime anyone says anything lately about hasselblad it's considered a big knock and it comes with a lot of blowback from certain people
JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=201061\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Not if it's accurate. If, however, statements are made that are inaccurate, misleading or debatable--a differing opinion or point of view might be put forth. It's still OK to disagree is it not?
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: pprdigital on June 12, 2008, 09:14:33 am
Quote
The fine distinction that jjj is attempting to make is that the manual details the importing of 3FR files from the original storage device (CF card or Image Bank) into Phocus, but does not specify that 3FR files simply copied to the hard drive also need to be imported into Phocus. To quote jjj... "and as that page of manual is about importing files to your machine [which is what you would expect] from an card/camera/imagebank and does not mention anything about importing images already on your computer, it simply illustrates my point".

This is what the manual states in big bold type under the even bigger and bolder header title of IMPORTING CAPTURES... "Imported captures appear in the Thumbnail Browser as 3FR files for browsing. Selected files are then converted and stored as 3F files for editing and export." This is all contained in the large header for the page and is followed in the body with..."To import captures from a camera / CF card reader / ImageBank-II, proceed as follows:".

Since hard drive is not in the list, jjj assumes that for some reason the 3FR files that were copied over to the hard drive from the CF card no longer need to be imported into Phocus. He tries to make this appear logical with "that page of manual is about importing files to your machine [which is what you would expect]". The only problem is there is absolutely no logic whatever to his assertion or assumption. Let me explain: 1) Why do you need to "import" "files to your machine" when  they have already been copied from the CF card to the hard drive? They don't need to be "imported" to your hard drive if they are already there. So... 2) The Phocus manual is referring to importing compressed 3FR files into Phocus for editing as uncompressed 3F files. No special software is required to copy image files or any other document files to a hard drive. That is an operating system function and anyone with passing familiarity with using a computer knows this. But...3) jjj insists that this "is what you would expect." Well no, I don't think this is what would be expected and I'm surprised that jjj wants us to believe that is what he assumed. Because... 4) jjj is a fan of Lightroom. Lightroom also has an import function. It is used to import images into Lightroom--not to import images to the hard drive. The Lightroom manual chapter on importing starts with "Importing photos into the Adobe® Photoshop® Lightroom™ library is the first step in working with your photos. You can import photos directly from a camera, memory card reader, or other storage device." So... 5) What is the basis for jjj to claim "that page of manual is about importing files to your machine [which is what you would expect]"? The manual says "Phocus will import the selected files and process them into 3F files (thumbnails now lose the 3FR icon), automatically storing them in the selected folder" and "Imported captures appear in the Thumbnail Browser as 3FR files for browsing. Selected files are then converted and stored as 3F files for editing and export". Seems pretty clear to me that "import" in Phocus or Lightroom refer to importing images into the program and not the copying of images to the hard drive.

I really don't have any more time available for this now. I don't mind discussing and debating at some length with people that have put forth some effort to learn something about the topic of discussion, but doing it with someone that has glossed over a subject can be pretty tiring and boring.
[attachment=7008:attachment]  [attachment=7010:attachment]
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=201067\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Ah. I did miss that fine distinction. Ok, point deducted. I'm going to have to withdraw my grudging award of merit to that point, jjj.

TT - things are quite slamming lately, and I'm finding I only have time for skimming. Thanks for pointing that out.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: Dustbak on June 12, 2008, 10:44:02 am
Now, not to be bitching about it too much but I do find it annoying 3FR files are not supported by ACR. I understand FFF files are supported by Aperture which is the only one that does support them at this time. This does mean the files from your CF card still have to go through either Phocus or Flex to be converted from 3FR to FFF only to be supported by just 1 program (besides Flex/Phocus).

Now, you could convert them from 3FR to FFF and than to DNG but in that case you loose DAC.

Only when you have your entire workflow in Flex or Phocus you have no problems/delays. I might be fine with that if I could invoke batch processing in either one with the ability to invoke PS actions or droplets.

Now, that would really make me happy.

While they are at it, maybe even the possibility to batch process towards different file formats while running several actions consecutively before saving. Preferably at the same speed Adobe does.

Getting 3FR supported with DAC in Adobe might be a sensitive issue to Hasselblad (but isn't this the reasons NDA's are used?) but at least have Phocus/Flex generate DNG's with all options or add the posibility of more integration/automation with PS.

Or am I one of the few that has been automating lots of stuff? I that case I can understand it is not interesting to implement features like that, too small of a user group/market.
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: JDG on June 12, 2008, 11:26:07 am
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Getting 3FR supported with DAC in Adobe might be a sensitive issue to Hasselblad (but isn't this the reasons NDA's are used?) but at least have Phocus/Flex generate DNG's with all options or add the posibility of more integration/automation with PS.

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Ultimately file support is up to Adobe.

The problem with DAC corrections and similar proprietary file information (black calibration data for phase, and I believe gain on Leaf?) is not necessarily that the manufacturers will not disclose it, but rather that Adobe does not wish to invest the development time and money for what they see as a small customer base.
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: Dustbak on June 12, 2008, 11:38:24 am
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Ultimately file support is up to Adobe.

The problem with DAC corrections and similar proprietary file information (black calibration data for phase, and I believe gain on Leaf?) is not necessarily that the manufacturers will not disclose it, but rather that Adobe does not wish to invest the development time and money for what they see as a small customer base.
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You are right but at least with the Leaf files you can generate new .Mos files with the gain applied which can be read by ACR. I wish this could be done with Hasselblad's files as well. Generate DNG files with DAC applied for all I care. I also agree this is not the most elegant solution (which would be total support by Adobe) but it is something.

Not sure about Phase, I haven't been working long enough with Phase files.

On another level. P1 files as well as Leaf files can be read by ACR. These markets are as small as Hasselblads maybe even smaller?
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: James R Russell on June 12, 2008, 01:15:58 pm
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You are right but at least with the Leaf files you can generate new .Mos files with the gain applied which can be read by ACR. I wish this could be done with Hasselblad's files as well. Generate DNG files with DAC applied for all I care. I also agree this is not the most elegant solution (which would be total support by Adobe) but it is something.

Not sure about Phase, I haven't been working long enough with Phase files.

On another level. P1 files as well as Leaf files can be read by ACR. These markets are as small as Hasselblads maybe even smaller?
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I don't know what ACR or Lightroom reads from a Phase, a Leica or a Canon file, but it doesn't look like the maker's software, well except the leica because you never know what color that thing is going to make.

I don't understand Adobe.  They make an amazing product but how hard is it to read all the information in the file, or better yet how hard is it for the makers to make thier file format translate exactly to adobe products?  It's a heart stopper to drop a file into lightroom and see orange faces.

Sure, we can do presets, changes, etc. but that's just another step in a long line of workflow steps nobody needs.

I originally wasn't a fan of dng because as far as I could tell all dngs are not created equal, but if that's what it takes to get the native look from a file then I guess they should all go this way.

As far as aperture, well unless they've changed it 400% then forget it because I tried it and it was the most unintuitive product Apple has ever produced.

JR
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: Studio12NYC on June 12, 2008, 03:18:58 pm
I second that on Aperture.  It was boxy and horrible!

Not sure who they left to design and engineer that horrible piece of software.

LR & C1 are really my only options at the moment
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: samuel_js on June 12, 2008, 04:01:17 pm
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I second that on Aperture.  It was boxy and horrible!

Not sure who they left to design and engineer that horrible piece of software.

LR & C1 are really my only options at the moment
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And it doesn't read Phase One raws. Just the previews.
Title: Swimwear Shoot with Hasselblad H3D II
Post by: JTFOTO on June 17, 2008, 10:34:18 am
Great work David!!!  I have been away for a while and it is nice to see new work.  Congrats with your career! I am sure that girl didn't cost $40k   to shoot.