Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Digital Image Processing => Topic started by: stewarthemley on February 01, 2008, 05:46:48 am
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I'm considering moving to Mac after many years with PC and I wonder if the grass is really greener or just seems that way. I really DON'T want to start a platform war!!! I'm simply looking for real-life experience from people who have made the change, and also from people who can tell me some of the disadvantages of Macs. There must be some.
At the moment, I think I'll get a macbook pro and also a hefty tower jobby- a macpro. I'll be working with big files (39mp, 16bit, MFDB) often with quite a few layers, as I do now with my PC. At present, all my programs are PC and one or two of them I will hope to use on the Mac using Parallels (if that's the best way), programs like Qimage and my accounting program, etc. I And will be asking Adobe if I can change CS3/Bridge/LR to Mac.
I know there have been some teething troubles with Leopard but that's normal and probably no worse, or slightly better, than Vista (I'm still on XP) so I'm not put off by that. Any advice would be most welcome.
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We were a multi-platform office until a few months ago. Had to be -- the vast majority of the university is PC-based, and we needed PC's to do accounting work, and test website development. All the creatives worked on Macs, but there were PC laptops sprinkled around the office.
No more. We recently purchased new Macbook Pro laptops for about half the staff. They run Parallels to do any work that requires a PC, and this works seamlessly. The designer and photographer (me) are still Mac-only, but everyone else is able to run their PC apps right on their Macbook Pros.
I don't know how well the specialized apps will work -- like Qimage -- but an accounting app should be no problem at all.
Other than that, it's just a different operating system. Though they seem similar, PCs and Macs to work differently, and you'll just have to get used to it. I am trying to move my spouse from her old Vaio to a new Macbook, and she's having a hard time with the transition. But my teenage daughter picked up the Mac like she was born to it (after many years on a PC).
Good luck. Our designer has a new Mac Pro tower, and it just screams. I'm jealous.
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The main issue is whether any software that you need is PC only, as Parallels, VMWare, CrossWeaver are not perfect, so do not rely on them solving the problem.
However, you can simply have a dual boot set up and use the Mac as a PC [which is what is is anyway]. That may be a good thing in one way as you don't try and do all things at once. Having to turn off from photoediting and concentrate just on office work is not a bad thing. You can also simply keep the PC and use that as a machine for PC only software.
As for whether it's better. Both Windows and OSX are very good and if you know what you are doing there's nothing in it. They are both good and rubbish, albeit in different places. I was at a collegues yesterday and he's only ever used a Mac and I cannot stand warching him work, as it's so remarkably inefficient and slow. And it's not the Mac that's at fault. I see the same thing with people using Windows, though not quite as bad. Most computer issues are PEBKAC.
My pet hate with OSX is Finder. I absolutely loathe it. In Windows I use a programme called Directory Opus as my Windows Explorer replacement and it is so powerful, customisable and good at making life easy. Explorer is better than Finder and DOpus is so many leagues above that. Not found a Finder replacenment any where near as good. But once you are in most programmes you won't notice much difference anyway. Though where Macs may well catch you out is trying to resize a window - only the bottom right [duh!] and trying to find a programme as it's open but nowhere to be seen, because the desktop is visible through the programme. I like to have all my progs open full screen and I do not want to see the desktop through them. Others love it. Each to his own.
I'd say the grass just seems greener, both are very good, if you know what you are doing, both are a bit pants otherwise. But if you do web work, being able to test sites in OSX and Windows natively and at the same time is very handy.
But if you need a new PC and are prepared to spend enough to afford a MacPro and the new Macs are currently reasonable value [they certainly weren't before update] and you can use which ever OS you want. Do not buy memory, hard drives etc from Apple, they will gouge you horrendously. They'll charge more than double for an identical item sourced elsewhere. even the staff at the local Apple shop suggest buying memeory from Crucial. The default MacPro setup is the best buy. Also remember there is no monitor included.
The above post just reminded me, a friend who is a lecturer and has always used Macs, recently changed to PCs as the dept stopped using Macs [couldn't get the software to run on Macs]. Once he got used to the different look and feel, he was perfectly happy. I think he now prefers it.
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... I'm simply looking for real-life experience from people who have made the change, and also from people who can tell me some of the disadvantages of Macs. There must be some.
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Well, since I had to use Windows at work, I decided never to pay personal money for any Microsoft product, so my own computers have been Mac´s from the start. And while i COULD imagine a situation where I would switch to Linux, nothing would ever drive me back to Windows...
My present Mac´s are a 2x2 Intel MacPro with 30" Apple Cinema Display, and a 15" PowerBook that´s now just over 2 years old. I´m still on Tiger; tried Leopard, but decided to wait for one or two further updates (10.5.2 should come any day now; it might be what´s needed).
As for disadvantages of Mac´s, I can only think of one significant: let´s call it the "minority effect". Whenever buying third part equipment or software, you´ll meet the attitude "Did you say Mac? I only know Windows..." from salespersons or service desks. So you´re on your own whenever you have a problem (well, there are several excellent web pages and discusswion groups that will be of great help).
That said, as long as I´ve read the specs before buying things, I´ve never really had to give up on anything I´ve bought. And the time spent on solving such problems is learning time: you´ll settle the next one far faster.
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I am trying to move my spouse from her old Vaio to a new Macbook, and she's having a hard time with the transition. [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=171479\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Mac don't make an equivalent to my Vaio, as it is a 13", that is powerful, has a DVD, a full set of Connectors a nice big, non compromised keyboard and is lovely to use. MacBook Pros are too big for my needs and Mac Books are too underpowered/compromised. MacAir! HotAir morelike. So that's the big drawback with Macs, very little choice. I'm going to have to use my old Logitech keyboard with my new MacPro as it's wireless yet has all the keys. With the new Mac keyboards, you get wired with all keys or wireless without a lot of keys I always use. I want wireless but with no keys missing. How hard is that?
My Girlfriend's VAIO also has a 1600X1200 Screen which is bigger than the 17" Mac Pro and is not as big physically and comes with a much much better keyboard too. This is cost cutting by Apple, using the same cramped keyboard on the massive 17" tea tray as on the old [discontinued] 12" and why their profit margins are so high.
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I also hate those passionate wars between Mac and Pc users and I would not like it. To begin with I say I use both Macs and Pcs, I own both and I am no fanatic of either. All I care is to do my work properly and cost effectively. So I like Macs, they look nice, they work real nice, they are stable, generally speaking. But... IMO, maybe... (don't get me wrong), they cost a lot. So to speak with facts, I recently bought a Mac Pro basic with 3gb ram, which cost me 2800Euros. I also wanted a second engine for the studio, but I did not have the budget for an other Mac, so I contacted a friend who builds Pcs for designers and he put together a nice beast. It runs a Quad Core, 3gbs of Ram and Two Raptors 150Gb each at 10000rpm! It is mad fast, I only run CS3 photoshop on it, it does not look very nice and I honestly cannot detect speed differences with my mac. Best thing though, was the cost: 1300Euros...
If it gets built by a good mechanic, I believe a PC can be very stable. For PC users one can say they can find software on the net more easily, if you know what I mean... (please say I never said that ).
In other words if you don't mind using a PC for any reason, you can get away with a smaller expence and for sure you ll do things fast and reliably. On the other hand if you feel you have the money for the Mac, then go for it, you will not regret.
If you know how both platforms work, you will have no trouble doing your workflow smoothly. If you have never used a Mac before, then for sure you will find it a bit strange at the beggining, ut soon you'll get used to it.
Oh I forgot to mention I ve used both engines on 39mpxls files.
It is a huge conversation to get into, but for me it is very simple. Ask your pocket first.
George
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Around 18 months ago I made the switch from PC to Mac and have never looked back. I used PCs for around 15 years but was sick of my pcs constantly crashing (I've owned everything from super cheap to high-end custom builds), and thus losing files and time and inducing large repair costs. Took me absolutely no time to learn the OS X operating system and it's so much more intuitive than the PC OS. No going through menu after menu, just one click and you're there.
If you want to run PC applications on a Mac, you could consider getting Boot Camp installed. You'll then be able to use your pc applications in tandem with OS-X but have the Mac reliability. Since Adobe released CS3, Photoshop and other design softwares run as smoothly if not smoother than I've used on PC.
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At the end of last year, I very nearly tumbled for Macs. I have had a 12 inch PowerBook for about four years and desktop PCs of a similar vintage. The Powerbook has been very reliable. I have had no bad problems with PC stability, but I have replaced a lot of power supplies. The PCs were home built and you get what you pay for in terms of hardware quality.
In the end, I plumped for PCs, Vaio laptops (a 17 inch and an ultra-portable TZ series) and an HP XW4400 workstation with 30 inch Dell ultrasharp monitor and a Mesh desktop that had had very good reviews. I looked very hard at the Macs and I was certainly very tempted, but the real deal breaker for me was the cost and the limited choice. The tower macs are probably reasonable value, but are over specified (IMV) for still photographic processing and so the cost cannot be justified. The iMac is a gorgeous product, but I do not want hardware inextricably linked to the display. The Powerbooks are expensive and not ultraportable (the 17 inch Vaio was well under half the cost of a 17 inch Powerbook). So as well as limited choice, not much bang for your buck either. The only other thing that struck me is that it no longer seems to make sense to build your own PC desktop. Both the Mesh and the HP machines cost about the same as the parts and the software bought individually, but obviously came without assembly hassles and with proper warranties. So far, Vista seems fine to me. I pointed all this out to my brother who remains an absolute fanatic where Macs are concerned and for once, he really did not seem to have any good alternative reasoning for going down the Mac route. Photoshop et al looks the same on both platforms.
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Super bowl commercial:
Mac Guy: "Leopard is better than Vista"
PC Guy: "I use Vista fine... no software is perfect"
Mac Guy: "Leopard is better than Vista"
PC Guy: "What's better about it?"
Mac Guy: "Leopard is better than Vista"
PC Guy: "Oh wait that's right you're still waiting for Apple to ship their computers"
This post is meant in jest not to start the "less filling/better taste" argument as I'm patiently waiting, over a year, for Apple to ship their new MacPro with a decent video card
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OSX's GUI is one thing you may be annoyed with. Finding where you can turn things off can be frustrating because each GUI behavior can have preferences in different places. The bouncing and swooshing animated icons in the Dock can be turned off either in System Preferences or by using a special keyboard combination within the interface itself except for the swoosh animation opening folders and closing windows which there is no preference. This all can be can be hard to remember as well and makes my 2004 G5 20" iMac seem slow.
Went to OSX Hints website, copied a boolean based command line straight off the web page and pasted it in Terminal, a Unix based system utility, hit return while in Administrator User Mode and quit Terminal.
No more animations. Double clicked on an empty folder that spans the entire screen I use to check white luminance and the folder instantly opened as fast as turning on a light switch. Closing it was just as instantaneous.
I was terrified of Terminal and the Unix subsystem having no experience at all from being on Mac OS Classic for 8 years. I stopped troubleshooting computers because it all seemed so endless. My motto became-"If it doesn't work get rid of it." Fortunately the three Macs I've bought online since 1998 are all still working within their own OS version and all run compatible versions of Photoshop flawlessly.
The only positive experiences I've had using Windows PC's has been for surfing the web on huge networked systems at two local libraries. Screaming fast and stable. No Photoshop work though.
I've been on about five home based and custom built PC's belonging to friends and relatives since I seriously got into digital imaging in '98 and they always had trouble with streaming content off the internet and/or printing out of either Photoshop or Word. I've yet to be work on a really nicely put together PC system using Photoshop. I've always felt like I'ld have to find some guy with a lot of experience putting systems together to really trust a PC for working in Photoshop.
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Besides price and compatibility, the main disadvantage of the Mac is that it doesn't work as well as Apple would you believe. I've been using Macs as my main platform since the switch to OS X. I recently took delivery of a new Mac Pro early 2008, and without going into details, it has been nothing less than a calamity (the Apple tech support own word), requiring hours on the phone and eventually a complete system re-install that wiped out all applications and custom settings that took me days to install and tune. Just to give an example of minor annoyance, in Photoshop CS3, under Leopard (Mac OS 10.5), something as basic as the crop tool does not work properly: when you input numbers to constrain proportions, they remain free.
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Just to give an example of minor annoyance, in Photoshop CS3, under Leopard (Mac OS 10.5), something as basic as the crop tool does not work properly: when you input numbers to constrain proportions, they remain free.
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No problem with crop tool here under 10.4.10.
As far as I am concerned, the main pain was in migrating the software from PC to Mac. Since it is done, i have had very few problems with my high speced Mac Pro. I only have the feeling that all those cores are sadely under-used because of limitations of the OS/applications.
Hopefully 10.5 will help with some applications, but I am still concerned about stability and applications issues like the one you mention above.
Cheers,
Bernard
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First, thanks for all the replies and it's great that nobody started "the war"...
And what a mixed set of views. I was sort of hoping people would come down heavily for the Mac so I could justify all that outlay but it seems more balanced than I was expecting. Maybe PCs have progressed in the last few years, maybe Macs have slipped. Maybe at the higher end, where I suppose I have to be for the big files, Mac still has the edge? My view is that Macs can accept and use much more RAM which has to be a big factor.
One area I feel Mac has the edge is in some minor but useful touches. Eg, I often use my PC laptop in a dark theatre and can't see the keys. (I've now bought a USB LED light) but one of the directors had a Mac and his keys were lit up. Small things like that make me believe that Mac designers are more on the ball.
Clearly I need to spend more time checking out the basics like relative speed, stability and workflow. I know you have to try things for yourself, we all have different requirements, but still its useful to hear from people's experience. Thanks again to eveyone.
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Macs haven't slipped, they are much better than they were, as are PCs, but the area where Apple has always really excelled is marketing. The reality is that Mac mags have much the same content as PC mags, both full of tips on how to optimise your computer and letters from readers asking for solutions to all the problems thay have. Several photographers I know use Macs and have had problems, just like PC users do. The main problem with PCs is that anyone can build them including you and I. The chance of them working smoothly is much less compared to say a Vaio or a Mac, but there are probably a lot more of these cheap builds than there are Macs, so all PCs get a bad rep.
For every great idea/design Apple have, they also have an equally stupid design/idea. Magnetic laptop connector, brilliant, a screeen that tilts back half as far as my Vaios, very annoying/limiting. I'm typing this on my lap with my knees up using a Vaio. Something I find very hard to do with a MacBook Pro. Most of the time, I stand at my desk for better ergonomics and again a Macook Pro laptop is frustrating to use as the screen doesn't tilt back far enough to see properly.
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If you are thinking of moving from PC to MAC and you use Epson professional printers, you may wish to first do some careful research on the user-friendliness of the Epson driver with the Apple operating system you will be using.
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As a recent Mac user my 2 yen:
I expect to buy an MFDB within the next six months, hopefully a Sinar. Exposure 6 will be supported for Windows at some point, but I'm not holding my breath. I bought a cheap used iBook G4 12" with 640MB RAM running 10.3.9. This is certainly not the latest and greatest, but was bought simply to get used to the OS.
I currently use it to tether to my Betterlight scanback on location and for web browsing. No image editing is done on this machine.
The good:
Great battery life. I get 3 to 4 hours on a single charge. If I'm careful with the sleep settings, it lasts a whole day. This is pretty good for a machine of this vintage.
The bad:
Window resizing: It's a pain to have to drag every single window to maximize it to full screen.
Creation date: When I transfer files from the Betterlight, the creation date changes to the date the file was transferred. I then have to change the date using another program. This is stupid, to say the least.
File numbering: I name files this way Date_Location_Number. On the Mac, the Betterlight software does not accept numbers starting with 0, so for every folder I have to rename the first 9 files to add a zero. I don't know whether it has to do with OSX or Betterlight.
No right-click: Copy-paste, context menus are a pain with OSX.
No backspace key: On Windows, the delete key deletes characters after the cursor, the backspace key deletes those before.
No IrfanView: I haven't found a replacement for this great free program. Where are all the creatives who only use Mac when it comes to writing great, small, free programs?
Opera is my choice of browser. In Windows, I can click on a tab to minimize it. I see no such option on the Mac.
The ugly: The Finder, the Dock.
It's possible that some of these problems have been resolved in the latest versions of OSX, or I may simply not know how to use OSX. I would be glad if someone could point me in the right direction.
I shoot perhaps a maximum of twenty images a day, so I have no particular need for 8 core machines. I hope Sinar gets out the Windows support before I buy the back!
Cheers,
Kumar
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Macs haven't slipped, they are much better than they were, as are PCs, but the area where Apple has always really excelled is marketing. The reality is that Mac mags have much the same content as PC mags, both full of tips on how to optimise your computer and letters from readers asking for solutions to all the problems thay have. Several photographers I know use Macs and have had problems, just like PC users do. The main problem with PCs is that anyone can build them including you and I. The chance of them working smoothly is much less compared to say a Vaio or a Mac, but there are probably a lot more of these cheap builds than there are Macs, so all PCs get a bad rep.
For every great idea/design Apple have, they also have an equally stupid design/idea. Magnetic laptop connector, brilliant, a screeen that tilts back half as far as my Vaios, very annoying/limiting. I'm typing this on my lap with my knees up using a Vaio. Something I find very hard to do with a MacBook Pro. Most of the time, I stand at my desk for better ergonomics and again a Macook Pro laptop is frustrating to use as the screen doesn't tilt back far enough to see properly.
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You note "anyone can build a PC" but all your other posts have been mentioning laptops. You really can't build a PC laptop, so this whole point is moot.
Some things about the Mac, in particular the lack of a registry, mean it really is TONS easier to maintain a Mac than a PC. You can move from one Mac to a new one in about an hour. With Windows, you have to re-install every application (gag).
There are pluses and minuses to each platform -- I've spent a lot of time on both -- and I definitely prefer the Mac. It's a minority platform still, but the market share is around 7% these days and increasing continuously -- there are many fewer people that have no idea how one works these days.
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Some things about the Mac, in particular the lack of a registry, mean it really is TONS easier to maintain a Mac than a PC. You can move from one Mac to a new one in about an hour. With Windows, you have to re-install every application (gag).
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It depends. If you are migrating from one computer to another using the same version of the Windows operating system there are mirror porgrams which are supposed to avoid the kind of re-install you are talking about. But it is very limited. Even a migration from Windows XP Home to Windows XP Professional cost me three days of time re-installing the whole system. That will also happen to any one migrating between platforms. And the up-grade from OS9 to OSX I understand was no picnic. The people who migrate from one machine to the next within OSX have a real advantage in this regard, but does it work migrating from one "animal" to the next, and is Apple committed to this functionality going forward? If so, it would be a strong plus, becase we find ouselves up-grading our computers a least every several years these days.
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The bad:
Window resizing: It's a pain to have to drag every single window to maximize it to full screen.
The standard window in OSX has a green button top left - that should fill the screen with the window - there are exceptions, however
No right-click: Copy-paste, context menus are a pain with OSX.
I got used to option-clicking until I got a multi button mouse (even Apple sells that functionality, finally!
No backspace key: On Windows, the delete key deletes characters after the cursor, the backspace key deletes those before.
I learned something today - the delete key next to the += key does indeed delete to the left of the insertion point BUT the delete key under the "help" key above the left arrow key deletes to the right of the insertion point (all these years...)
No IrfanView: I haven't found a replacement for this great free program. Where are all the creatives who only use Mac when it comes to writing great, small, free programs?
You mean like BreezeBrowser and QImage that I think a lot of us would like to be able to use
Opera is my choice of browser. In Windows, I can click on a tab to minimize it. I see no such option on the Mac.
Both Safarai and Firefox have tabbed browsing - what are you missing? Is it that the Mac version of Opera doesn't have tabbed browsing?
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The standard window in OSX has a green button top left - that should fill the screen with the window - there are exceptions, however
Not with Preview at least.
I got used to option-clicking until I got a multi button mouse (even Apple sells that functionality, finally!
No mouse on location. And to get that function, I need to buy something??
I learned something today - the delete key next to the += key does indeed delete to the left of the insertion point BUT the delete key under the "help" key above the left arrow key deletes to the right of the insertion point (all these years...)
I have only one delete key, under the F12 key. So OSX is intuitive?
You mean like BreezeBrowser and QImage that I think a lot of us would like to be able to use
The Betterlight files are huge and my usual procedure is to convert them to jpegs to do an intial selection. IrfanView does this quickly with great quality. It also reads many kinds of RAW files. I'm currently using Graphic Converter, but the quality of the jpegs isn't great.
Both Safarai and Firefox have tabbed browsing - what are you missing? Is it that the Mac version of Opera doesn't have tabbed browsing?
It does have tabbed browsing. In Windows, there's an option to let you minimize a tabbed window by simply clicking on the tab. It then remains minimized until you want to see it again. Not so on the Mac.
Cheers,
Kumar
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As far as I'm concerned, the Intel Macs have removed the debate. You get one and you run both OS-X and Windows (and/or Linux if you desire). Done.
I post screenshots and examples of both Mac and Windows-only software on my website, and I use only Macs to do it (Parallels option for running Windows). Works great, and the Windows system files can easily be copied/backed up to additional Macs as needed. No more installing Windows! Drag and drop files between the OS's; simply minimize or quit Windows when you're done with it.
I work in higher-ed IT and we have four Intel Mac labs, two with the option of running Windows XP Pro (via Boot Camp) for apps like EZNews and SPSS. In speaking with students who use Windows, I haven't found any who actually like Vista. Same with my Windows-using relatives, and even Dell whom I understand requested an extension of shipping their machines with XP installed. I think Vista looks way better than XP, but I haven't used it for any period of time yet (aside from the RC1). Customer reaction doesn't bode well for Microsoft's future, though they always seem to find a way around such things ;-).
So I can't imagine buying a Windows-only machine and being excluded from using OS-X (hacks notwithstanding). However, I do like the concept of building your own machine from scratch. If you have an older Mac (G4 or G5 tower), you can do this to some degree, but you miss out on the Intel advantages. I have a MacPro tower at work but haven't cracked it open to see what's expandable (seems fine the way it is!).
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Not with Preview at least.
No mouse on location. And to get that function, I need to buy something??
I have only one delete key, under the F12 key. So OSX is intuitive?
The Betterlight files are huge and my usual procedure is to convert them to jpegs to do an intial selection. IrfanView does this quickly with great quality. It also reads many kinds of RAW files. I'm currently using Graphic Converter, but the quality of the jpegs isn't great.
It does have tabbed browsing. In Windows, there's an option to let you minimize a tabbed window by simply clicking on the tab. It then remains minimized until you want to see it again. Not so on the Mac.
Cheers,
Kumar
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Seems like Preview needs the scale (Actual Size, Zoom to fit, Zoom out etc) to be set large enough for the image to fill the screen before the green button will fill the screen (i.e. Application trumps OS). It really is only intended to, well, Preview. Sounds like you should try to find an old copy of something like Elements to look at and convert your BetterLight files to jpeg with an Adobe(?) engine
Newer Apple mice have multiple buttons, non-Apple USB mice have always been usable with your "preferred" style - multibutton, scroll wheel etc. I have a [a href=\"http://www.targus.com/us/product_details.asp?sku=PAUM01U]MiniMouse[/url] ($20odd tiny USB optical twobutton scrollwheel retractable cord) Note that the trackpad can be updated to allow two-finger scrolling, option (I mean right-) clicking, tapping etc etc (look for something like SideTrack (http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/20854&page=9))
The issue with the "other" delete key is a limitation of the laptop not the OS There are almost certainly keypad mapping mods out there if you need the "delete right of cursor". I'm by now used to rightarrow(to move the cursor)-delete
I'm still not sure about the issue with tabs in Opera. Click on another tab, does not the one you had open get minimized into a tab itself? I just downloaded Opera and find it unintuitive on my Mac ( ) - my rightMouse click and keyboard option-click don't do anything (Sounds like an Opera thing, rather than an OSX thing)
It's really what you're used to, that you normally call "intuitive". If I ever tried to use a PC, I'm sure there'd be lots of things, even simple things, that it would take me a while to learn, just the way you will need to learn how to do them in OSX. There are forums for using Macs just like there are photography forums (fora???) to help find these things out. Just because a lot of folks feel more comfortable and at home with the OSX interface (and often say it feels more intuitive as a result) doesn't mean there is no learning curve. BTW - I started on a Mac in '85 and never used a PC, so I have no grudge against their OSes just no experience Hope these hints help
Andy
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Let me add that Apple and MS often borrow from each other, and I understand to do this is an actual legal agreement between them, stemming from '90s-era lawsuits regarding OS GUI intellectual property.
For instance, on the Mac you can app-switch by using Command-Tab. In XP you use Alt-Tab (IIRC). Maybe MS offered that feature first; I'm not sure. Apple's implementation is nicer, though ;-).
One thing I like about OS-X's Finder is the column view, which even Vista doesn't seem to have. I hate large icon views and don't like simple lists much either. Columns are easy to navigate quickly using the arrow keys.
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You note "anyone can build a PC" but all your other posts have been mentioning laptops. You really can't build a PC laptop, so this whole point is moot.
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Duh! How is that moot, just because I happened to talk about laptops in previous posts? It certainly doesn't mean I was in this. And as I was talking about self builds it should be blindingly obvious I wasn't talking about laptops.
The point still stands, anyone can build a [desktop] PC, but you can only buy a complete Mac, so you don't get the problems associated with rubbish self builds which Apple like to attack, whilst ignoring that a Sony machine is as good as an Apple machine. Actually their laptops have better ergonomics/keyboards.
Now as Apple control the hardware and the software, then Macs should be much, much better than PCs, when it comes to bugs, software/hardware issues, yet the reality is there is no real difference, both are equally problematic, just in differeng areas.
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Let me add that Apple and MS often borrow from each other, and I understand to do this is an actual legal agreement between them, stemming from '90s-era lawsuits regarding OS GUI intellectual property.
I believe Apple sued MS for stealing look and feel, but lost as they'd themselves nicked the attributes in question from Xerox PARC.
MS also helped prop up Apple financially when Apple looked like they were going down the tubes, as MS needed the competition to avoid being broken up by the Government. So that may have some bearing on it.
For instance, on the Mac you can app-switch by using Command-Tab. In XP you use Alt-Tab (IIRC). Maybe MS offered that feature first; I'm not sure. Apple's implementation is nicer, though ;-).
Apple borrowed from Windows as much as the other way around, though Apple would never admit it and deliberatly do it differently even if it's less efficient. Though the recent trackpad changes have finally caught up with 5 year old PC ones and surpased them with the more advanced gestures. Still not second button, which is easier than Apple's way of saving face by using 3 fingers rather than 1. I find I have to use the mouse a lot more in OS-X than XP, a lot more. Generally I find Windows has the edge with er window's handling, 4 edges and 3 corners more in fact. Much easier + simpler to deal with.
Alt+tab for switching between apps was used in Windows first [Cntrl+Tab switches between windows in a Window's app]. And I prefer the Windows way as you can Alt+Tab between each iteration of a say Explorer, whereas you have to Cmd+Tab and then switch between windows using Cmd+' to get to separate Finder windows.
I quite like Expose, but I find Cmd+Tab quicker + easier. Expose is for those who can't work out Cmd+Tab, but with fancy graphics.
One thing I like about OS-X's Finder is the column view, which even Vista doesn't seem to have. I hate large icon views and don't like simple lists much either. Columns are easy to navigate quickly using the arrow keys.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=172063\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Finder is still pathetic and clumsy in so many ways, including the column view. You need an enormous screen size to deal with deeply nested folders and long names. It's the antithesis of what Macs purport to be. Not easy or inutitive, certainly not good, simplistic maybe. I've also asked very basic questions about using Finder in Apple stores and the 'Geniuses' there have no idea how to answer.
Oh and you can navigate Explorer using keys too, though I can't recall quite how as I've not used it for ages.
Finder + iTunes are the two worst programmes I can recall using. Though at least one doesn't have to use iTunes.
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Agreed; I like Windows windows that can be expanded from the bottom or sides. It's such a minor but helpful thing; surely Apple will nick it sometime.
As for working in the Finder, I seem to handle that alright, though I'm aware of many peoples' complaints about it. I routinely have two Finder windows open at the same time so I can drag things between them in column view (in lieu of a large screen, just scroll sideways). When in Windows' Explorer, I feel constricted and have a hard time getting around (plus the need to open one just to locate/access your drives and mounted volumes).
When I first used Leopard I was shocked to find I couldn't compare two audio files with each other using the two-window method (checking back and forth along the length of the song to see which of two similar songs had the better sound, etc.). Leopard does not offer the audio file scrub view in the Finder itself, just a play button. But, if you hit the selected file with the spacebar, it opens in large scrub view (with album art too!)--but you can't easily A/B compare two files that way.
But when going back to Tiger I miss the QuickLook option I just described, which is useful for any file format, so I've gotten over it.
Oh, and did you know Leopard's TextEdit handles .docx documents now? I find that useful for students who use Office 2007/Windows at home and try to open their files in Office 2004/Mac in the labs (Tiger). I had been using DocXConverter (not free) and NeoOffice (free) to handle this.
Oh, and in a related topic--I've noticed the free email services (Hotmail, Yahoo, etc.) seem to reject students' Word document attachments due to "viruses" (even when initially created on the Mac). I've gotten around this by using TextEdit to quickly resave them as .doc, and all is well (??).
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[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=172062\")
Seems like Preview needs the scale (Actual Size, Zoom to fit, Zoom out etc) to be set large enough for the image to fill the screen before the green button will fill the screen (i.e. Application trumps OS). It really is only intended to, well, Preview. Sounds like you should try to find an old copy of something like Elements to look at and convert your BetterLight files to jpeg with an Adobe(?) engine
I'll try this out with Preview. But IMHO, there's nothing to beat IrfanView for speed and quality.
Newer Apple mice have multiple buttons, non-Apple USB mice have always been usable with your "preferred" style - multibutton, scroll wheel etc. I have a [a href=\"http://www.targus.com/us/product_details.asp?sku=PAUM01U]MiniMouse[/url] ($20odd tiny USB optical twobutton scrollwheel retractable cord)
Like I said, no mouse on location.
Note that the trackpad can be updated to allow two-finger scrolling, option (I mean right-) clicking, tapping etc etc (look for something like SideTrack (http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/20854&page=9)) The issue with the "other" delete key is a limitation of the laptop not the OS There are almost certainly keypad mapping mods out there if you need the "delete right of cursor". I'm by now used to rightarrow(to move the cursor)-delete
Buying software for things Apple left out doesn't cut it for me.
I'm still not sure about the issue with tabs in Opera. Click on another tab, does not the one you had open get minimized into a tab itself? I just downloaded Opera and find it unintuitive on my Mac ( ) - my rightMouse click and keyboard option-click don't do anything (Sounds like an Opera thing, rather than an OSX thing)
In Windows, there's an option for when you click on the tab you're reading, it gets minimized, and stays that way until you click on it again. This is great for stuff like reading mail or watching an auction. It doesn't keep popping up as you cycle through the tabs. On the Mac, it's keyboard control click to get the context menu.
It's really what you're used to, that you normally call "intuitive". If I ever tried to use a PC, I'm sure there'd be lots of things, even simple things, that it would take me a while to learn, just the way you will need to learn how to do them in OSX. There are forums for using Macs just like there are photography forums (fora???) to help find these things out. Just because a lot of folks feel more comfortable and at home with the OSX interface (and often say it feels more intuitive as a result) doesn't mean there is no learning curve. BTW - I started on a Mac in '85 and never used a PC, so I have no grudge against their OSes just no experience Hope these hints help
Andy
I guess you're right about "intuitive", but I thought it meant that most people would find it easy. Perhaps I'm in the minority But right now my iBook is simply a more sophisticated Hyperdrive. I have no need for an IntelMac laptop to run Windows - I already have a PC laptop that does what I need. In the end it's each to his own!
Cheers,
Kumar
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Agreed; I like Windows windows that can be expanded from the bottom or sides. It's such a minor but helpful thing; surely Apple will nick it sometime.
I doubt it, as that would be admitting they'd got it wrong all these years. Though if they could think of a way that involved core graphics or a fiddly gesture..... The same way they finally added alt click to the trackpad, or added right click to the mouse. But then hid the fact, so that most long term Apple users don't even realise these Windows features had been added.
As for working in the Finder, I seem to handle that alright, though I'm aware of many peoples' complaints about it. I routinely have two Finder windows open at the same time so I can drag things between them in column view (in lieu of a large screen, just scroll sideways).
A very clumsy and unnecessary workaround. Workarounds like that simply mean the programme is broken.
When in Windows' Explorer, I feel constricted and have a hard time getting around (plus the need to open one just to locate/access your drives and mounted volumes).[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=172093\")
Not quite sure what you mean by need to open one. ?
How do you find a tree directory hard to get around?
If you still use Windows, I cannot recomend this programme enough [a href=\"http://www.gpsoft.com.au/]D.Opus[/url] and an introduction to how powerful it is, can be found here Info (http://nudel.dopus.com/opus9/)
A very clever and powerful programme. Makes Finder seem even worse.
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It's really what you're used to, that you normally call "intuitive". If I ever tried to use a PC, I'm sure there'd be lots of things, even simple things, that it would take me a while to learn, just the way you will need to learn how to do them in OSX. [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=172062\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Uninuitive Mac things - ejecting a CD by dragging to Trash. Eh? How unobvious is that. Invisble programmes - you can see the desktop, but where's the damn window?
Uninuitive PC things - Hitting the Start button to stop it.
There are probably more for both, but cannot remember offhand
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My pet hate with OSX is Finder. I absolutely loathe it. In Windows I use a programme called Directory Opus as my Windows Explorer replacement and it is so powerful, customisable and good at making life easy.
IF you want to be fair, and its OK to compare a Windows finder replacement, there are a number of Mac finder replacements too. You may want to look into Path Finder. Now we can get back to apples to apples (no pun intended) comparisons. Another product that's quite popular is DragThing.
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I'll try this out with Preview. But IMHO, there's nothing to beat IrfanView for speed and quality.
Like I said, no mouse on location.
Buying software for things Apple left out doesn't cut it for me.
In Windows, there's an option for when you click on the tab you're reading, it gets minimized, and stays that way until you click on it again. This is great for stuff like reading mail or watching an auction. It doesn't keep popping up as you cycle through the tabs. On the Mac, it's keyboard control click to get the context menu.
I guess you're right about "intuitive", but I thought it meant that most people would find it easy. Perhaps I'm in the minority But right now my iBook is simply a more sophisticated Hyperdrive. I have no need for an IntelMac laptop to run Windows - I already have a PC laptop that does what I need. In the end it's each to his own!
Cheers,
Kumar
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=172161\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
You are right, there are some useful programs out there that don't run on Macs - Preview is very good at what it was designed for - you need something else.
No mouse - seems like that's your choice/option, nothing to do with the computer!
You bought an older computer - the newer ones have what you're complaining is absent in the trackpad.
It is Opera that is the problem, not OSX - in Safari or Firefox you just click on tabs to access the window - no need to cycle anything
The iBook can do a lot more than you have learned but you are only using it as if it were just a Hyperdrive. As I said, it would take me a long time to get to the same state of proficiency on a PC as I am on a Mac It would take some effort on my part to learn, and a bit of shareware too, I suspect, if I bought an older PC laptop.
May still come down to your last comment : horses for courses
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jjj, regarding the CD eject, you can:
1) Drag it to the Trash (this scares students when dealing with memory sticks!)
2) Right-click to invoke the contextual menu eject option (just like Windows)
3) Select the disc icon and use Command-E
4) Select the disc icon and use the File>Eject option
5) Push the keyboard Eject key
6) Hold the mouse button down during bootup
7) Use Roxio Toast's disc eject option
By "file tree" do you mean using the + signs in Windows to open-open-open-open-open nested folders until you arrive at the one you want? I prefer the OS-X column view where you can slide quickly from one level to the next, with no need to manually collapse everything when you're done.
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jjj, regarding the CD eject, you can:
1) Drag it to the Trash (this scares students when dealing with memory sticks!)
2) Right-click to invoke the contextual menu eject option (just like Windows)
3) Select the disc icon and use Command-E
4) Select the disc icon and use the File>Eject option
5) Push the keyboard Eject key
6) Hold the mouse button down during bootup
7) Use Roxio Toast's disc eject option
Or far more intuitively [which was the point], simply push eject onCD/DVD player.
By "file tree" do you mean using the + signs in Windows to open-open-open-open-open nested folders until you arrive at the one you want? I prefer the OS-X column view where you can slide quickly from one level to the next, with no need to manually collapse everything when you're done.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=172249\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
No need to manually colapse folders as they can be spring loaded, so open when you want and close afterwards. And having them left open if you want means, you don't need a second window of Explorer open like you do with Finder at times.
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IF you want to be fair, and its OK to compare a Windows finder replacement, there are a number of Mac finder replacements too. You may want to look into Path Finder. Now we can get back to apples to apples (no pun intended) comparisons. Another product that's quite popular is DragThing.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=172203\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I've looked into Finder replacements and a common thing comes up, shame they aren't as good as Opus. The main problem is they try to be Mac like, which is the fundamental problem with Finder IMO.
I've heard good things about Drag Thing, though I seem to recall Leopard now did some of what DT does or there's an issue with Leopard. I forget now.
Though Finder is so much a major part of the OS it's still an Apple thing.
Cheers for the suggestions anyhow. I was curious if anyone would mention that option. Once the builders have left and the house is usuable again, I shall be spending some worktime on computers rather than just using for email and the odd browsing inbetween site managing and Path finder is something on list of software to be trialed.
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You are right, there are some useful programs out there that don't run on Macs - Preview is very good at what it was designed for - you need something else.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=172219\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Preview is very annoying compared to the windows version as with windows viewer you can simply go to next picture in folder by cllicking buttons or using arrow keys. With Preview, you have to open each image individually. Very annoying and clunky to use if you want to scan through a folder of images.
Is there an easier way to look at all images in folders, that I've not yet found, not thumbies?
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There are at least two cool things you can do to quickly view images in Leopard itself:
1) Select a folder and use the CoverFlow option, and flip through the contents like a diner juke box. The bigger you make the window, the bigger the image size is. Use the scroll wheel or arrow keys to browse.
2) Select all images in a folder, right-click and use the QuickLook option (you can choose full-size slide show or contact sheet formats).
Screenshots attached, in reverse order.
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It is Opera that is the problem, not OSX - in Safari or Firefox you just click on tabs to access the window - no need to cycle anything
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=172219\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
What I mean is that in Windows, you can simply click on an open tab to minimize it, and it stays minimized until you click on it again. That's something I miss on the Mac.
Cheers,
Kumar
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There are at least two cool things you can do to quickly view images in Leopard itself:
2) Select all images in a folder, right-click and use the QuickLook option (you can choose full-size slide show or contact sheet formats).
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=172305\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thanks - Kumar this works in OSX 10.4 too (also has a "fit to screen" or actual size option)
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There are at least two cool things you can do to quickly view images in Leopard itself:
1) Select a folder and use the CoverFlow option, and flip through the contents like a diner juke box. The bigger you make the window, the bigger the image size is. Use the scroll wheel or arrow keys to browse.
2) Select all images in a folder, right-click and use the QuickLook option (you can choose full-size slide show or contact sheet formats).
Screenshots attached, in reverse order.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=172305\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Duh, I'd forgotten about coverflow!
I'm getting a new MacPro [with Leopard] in next week or so, hopefully after the 10.5.2 bug fix. The current Mac here is still OSX 10.4, so that's my excuse.
Didn't know about tip 2 though. So ta for that. Still not as easy or as intuitive as Viewer on Windows!
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Don't forget Preview has Preference options for how large images display when first opened.
In Panther's Preview Preferences you can't get any more obscure with these instructions listed in the Image section...
Default image scale:
•Scale large images to fit display
•Actual size
•Respect image DPI for "Actual Size"...(Uh!? Is actual size considered large?)
•Scale down large images to fit printed page.
Large? How large?...Uh..I don't have a printer so what page size are you referring to?
The PDF section is just as clear.
I don't know how it is in Tiger or Leopard.
Why do I need to install more software to get the intuitive GUI experience I originally paid Apple to provide.
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I want to say thanks again to everyone for a really useful discussion. My summary so far would be that both Mac and PC are getting better, both have irritating features and both are adequate for the work most of do.
At the moment, I'm drifting steadily towards a MacPro for the serious work at base and a smallish PC laptop for field work where I can use it tethered for checking shots (MFDB screens being as near useless as they are) and showing clients. I prefer this because I can get the power I need at a much smaller size, meaning portability, with a PC laptop. And it's much cheaper.
This isn't a perfect solution: eg, can't see Adobe letting me use a Mac version of PS/LR on one machine and then a windows version on another, even if not at the same time, unless I pay twice. But for me I think it will work because I can use Flexcolor and other conversion/previewing options on either platform.
In terms of "cameraspeak" it strikes me that the Mac is an open system, ie, it can also run windows, but the PC is not. Interesting to know why Mac went that route.
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In terms of "cameraspeak" it strikes me that the Mac is an open system, ie, it can also run windows, but the PC is not.
Actually I'd say it's completely the opposite, you can run Windows on any hardware you want. You can run Apple OS only on Apple hardware, which sounds pretty restrictive/closed to me. Not to mention stupid. So I have to use Apple hardware to use OSX. I think Apple hardware puts looks way above usability and even though I like things to look good, when it interferes with function, that very poor design. At least with a desktop I can change the keyboard/mouse/screen, but with an Apple laptop, you're stuck with the poor ergonomics and very limited choice. They still don't make a non compromised small laptop, which is my requirement for a laptop. I have a 13" VAIO, good screen, good keyboard, DVD writer, all the connectors I need, powerful [the most powerful laptop at the time, at any size]. The current version comes works out $1200/£600 cheaper than the closest specced 15" MBP. Now if the Vaio was allowed to dual boot OSX, that would be my preferred Laptop.
Interesting to know why Mac went that route.[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=172416\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
They had no choice, The chips Apple were using were woefully outdated. The laptops were G4s when the desktops were G5s. G5s being too hot to run in a laptop. AMD were making faster chips than Intel whose chips were faster than Motorola's [the ones used by Apple].
So after years and years of slagging off Intel in double page ads, suddenly, they were Apple's best friend. And as Apples were now PCs, Windows would run on them. They were mostly PCs before but with windows incompatible chips.
Though OSX will only work on Intel chips in a Mac as they have a key type thang to allow it to run.
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... Now if the Vaio was allowed to dual boot OSX, that would be my preferred Laptop.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=172425\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
That's my point...it won't, but the Mac will dual boot so in that sense it's open, ie dual, whereas the PC is singular. But it's not a big thing either way.
Incidentally, I have enjoyed reading your posts and learnt quite a bit from them. Thanks! (Also think you've got some great stuff on your website.) I like that you're not a Mac sycophant but note you have still decided to get a Macpro (in another thread.) I take the same attitude towards equipment: I don't owe it anything, it's there to work for me and if it doesn't, I'll say so. But I do like the look of Macs.
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Actually I'd say it's completely the opposite, you can run Windows on any hardware you want. You can run Apple OS only on Apple hardware, which sounds pretty restrictive/closed to me.
I think Apple hardware puts looks way above usability
Does anyone else see a conflict of logic here? You can run Windows AND OS X on a good looking designed Apple machine but, Apple puts looks above usability?
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This isn't a perfect solution: eg, can't see Adobe letting me use a Mac version of PS/LR on one machine and then a windows version on another, even if not at the same time, unless I pay twice. [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=172416\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
As a point of fact, the Lightroom licence is cross platform. Hopefully Adobe will see the sense of doing so for Photoshop too - after all, how silly would it be a licence to let you run Photoshop on two Dells or two HPs but not on one of each?
John
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As a point of fact, the Lightroom licence is cross platform. Hopefully Adobe will see the sense of doing so for Photoshop too - after all, how silly would it be a licence to let you run Photoshop on two Dells or two HPs but not on one of each?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=172477\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Interesting thought that hadn't occured to me. I just assumed it would not be possible. So does that mean I CAN use LR on a Mac and (at a separate time) a PC? If so, and I dload the mac version from the Adobe site, I wonder what would be the process for registering it?
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So after years and years of slagging off Intel in double page ads, suddenly, they were Apple's best friend. And as Apples were now PCs, Windows would run on them. They were mostly PCs before but with windows incompatible chips.
Though OSX will only work on Intel chips in a Mac as they have a key type thang to allow it to run.
I'm not sure criticizing a company for past ads is warranted, what were they supposed to do? The fact remains that the current Mac Pro outperforms and has better specs *at this time* than any other machine. A platform with a 1600MHz FSB and DDR2-800 RAM is *not* available anywhere else.
I'm a Windows Application developer, but even I can see that Apple clearly "gets it". They know they are now competing on a commodity platform, available everywhere, and are producing a product with excellent build quality, and top notch performance. Pricing? Go config a system at Apple and Dell and see for yourself.
-John
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Interesting thought that hadn't occurred to me. I just assumed it would not be possible. So does that mean I CAN use LR on a Mac and (at a separate time) a PC? If so, and I dload the mac version from the Adobe site, I wonder what would be the process for registering it?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=172483\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I do just that. Registration isn't by computer brand - you just download and install the versions you need.
Another thought. Though I didn't get it for this reason, I'm glad my main laptop is a Mac as it's the laptop that people see, not my PC desktops. It can fool some folk into thinking you're more creative than you are, and Maccies think you're one of them.
John
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Hot off the press (ah web):
http://www.macworld.com/article/131949/200...proeight28.html (http://www.macworld.com/article/131949/2008/02/macproeight28.html)
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A platform with a 1600MHz FSB and DDR2-800 RAM is *not* available anywhere else.[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=172485\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
John - you may not have seen some of the recent releases, but there are a number of motherboard manufacturers producing 1600 FSB capable boards that take DDR2 and have been for some months. You can even get DDR3 although we're at that interesting point where DDR3 is not always out performing DDR2.
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That's my point...it won't, but the Mac will dual boot so in that sense it's open, ie dual, whereas the PC is singular. But it's not a big thing either way.
Only because Apple lock other machines out, an Apple is a PC BTW. It's the OS that's restrictive, not the hardware that's open, an important distiction. Apple are doing the controloing, therefore they are being restrictive. You have to look at who's preventing what. Dell wanted to sell, the Apple OS on their boxes, but Apple wouldn't let them.
Incidentally, I have enjoyed reading your posts and learnt quite a bit from them. Thanks! (Also think you've got some great stuff on your website.) I like that you're not a Mac sycophant but note you have still decided to get a Macpro (in another thread.) I take the same attitude towards equipment: I don't owe it anything, it's there to work for me and if it doesn't, I'll say so. But I do like the look of Macs.[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=172443\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
They can look nice, but you can get nice looking PC boxes. I've got a lovely Aluminium case for my PC which predates the MacPro casing. Macolytes [which obviously I'm not ] can be a bit tedious, like any other fanboy. Computers are tools, just like Canons and Nikons are, to raise another rabid Fanboy area.
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Does anyone else see a conflict of logic here? You can run Windows AND OS X on a good looking designed Apple machine but, Apple puts looks above usability?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=172452\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I'm talking about physical interfaces like mice, keyboards, laptop design, where looking pretty comes above working well. Oh and having so few options/variations in things like keyboards/mice is a cheap cost cutting measure, which helps Apple have the best margins in the business.
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I'm not sure criticizing a company for past ads is warranted, what were they supposed to do?
Not continually denigrate competitors as when they get into bed with them, they look like hypocrites! . Apple have a history of slagging off competitors and not exactly sticking to the truth. They've been forced to withdraw ads in the UK, as they were telling porky pies [That's rhyming slang for lies, for the non Brits]. I dislike them for it and I know other people also hate their ads. I believe the Mac Vs PC ads were dropped here as the Mac character was seen as a smug prick and people preferred the PC.
Actually, the pair that got to play the parts here were best known for 'The Peep Show', a show about excruciating embarassingness [is that even a word?] where neither actors' character could be descibed as endearing. Very bad casting. Someone obviously heard they were hip and didn't look too hard as to why.
The fact remains that the current Mac Pro outperforms and has better specs *at this time* than any other machine. A platform with a 1600MHz FSB and DDR2-800 RAM is *not* available anywhere else.
The previous MacPro was also the fastest PC ever tested in PCPro and then was equalled by a PC that cost less than half the price in the next issue. I refused to buy a MacPro until the recent update as they were not good value and well overdue an update. I saved £1000/$2000+ by doing so.
I'm a Windows Application developer, but even I can see that Apple clearly "gets it". They know they are now competing on a commodity platform, available everywhere, and are producing a product with excellent build quality, and top notch performance. Pricing? Go config a system at Apple and Dell and see for yourself.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=172485\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
If I was to comptete on price I wouldn't use Dell. Dell are always chosen as they are expensive as PCs go. And as I mentioned above a £4,3000 Mac was equalled by a £1,900 PC.
I'd hardly say available everywhere either.
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Just thought I'd mention that I got fed up with overseeing the builders [house is being gutted, top to bottom] and went out and bought a shiny new MacPro.
Just got to work out where to put the damn thing as office occupies top floor and is still being rearranged after making more space. So MP may stay in it's [very large] box a little longer.
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I'm talking about physical interfaces like mice, keyboards, laptop design, where looking pretty comes above working well. Oh and having so few options/variations in things like keyboards/mice is a cheap cost cutting measure, which helps Apple have the best margins in the business.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=172656\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Exactly what USB or FireWire or SATA device are you referring to? There's nothing that forces you to use an Apple mouse instead of one made by Microsoft. You're stretching (again).
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Not continually denigrate competitors as when they get into bed with them, they look like hypocrites! .
They do a pretty good job of denigrating Microsoft (even though they sell a LOT of copies of Office).
Meanwhile, their market share (of actual computers) raises and raises. Seems like their marketing is working quite well thank you.
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Exactly what USB or FireWire or SATA device are you referring to? There's nothing that forces you to use an Apple mouse instead of one made by Microsoft. You're stretching (again).
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=172709\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Did you not notice the phrase laptop design? You're stuck with whatever keyboard/trackpad/monitor is specced when you buy a laptop. Besides you completely missed the point, which was about ergonomics and beauty, not that the were no other options regarding say keyboards/mice....if you buy a tower and not a laptop.
They do a pretty good job of denigrating Microsoft.. .
and that's to be admired? Negative advertising tends to be used by those that have run out of ideas and appeals to the lowest common denominator of voter/purchaser. The Republicans are master of the negative spin. Drifting a little OT here though.
And they've been censured for their misleading ads in the UK. Maybe you can get away with more in the US.
... (even though they sell a LOT of copies of Office).
Funny and there's little ol' me think MS sold Office and Apple sold iWorks.
Meanwhile, their market share (of actual computers) raises and raises. Seems like their marketing is working quite well thank you.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=172710\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
What from 3.5 to 4%? Besides it's more that MS has fumbled with Vista, than Apple's ads, that may have increased Apple's market share.
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Did you not notice the phrase laptop design? You're stuck with whatever keyboard/trackpad/monitor is specced when you buy a laptop.
Maybe you are. At this very moment, I'm typing on a full sized keyboard from my Macbook Pro. You simply plug in a USB device. I'm also using a Kensington Trackball on the same machine (and a 23" Cinema).
Are you suggesting that non Apple laptops have some provisions for removing the keyboards and putting something else in there? I think not.
Besides you completely missed the point, which was about ergonomics and beauty, not that the were no other options regarding say keyboards/mice....if you buy a tower and not a laptop.
Well unless I'm still misunderstanding you, I have both "beauty" and the ability to plug in any input device I want, as long as its' FireWire or USB (various flavors of each).
What from 3.5 to 4%?
Currently at 7.3%. But that's a HUGE increase in a few years. And its getting bigger all the time. The facts are that lots and lots of Windows users are switching and their market share continues to go up, not down like others.
http://apple20.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/...r-iphone-up-33/ (http://apple20.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/01/01/survey-mac-os-hit-record-73-share-in-december-iphone-up-33/)
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Maybe you are. At this very moment, I'm typing on a full sized keyboard from my Macbook Pro. You simply plug in a USB device. I'm also using a Kensington Trackball on the same machine (and a 23" Cinema).
I use a laptop as a laptop and a desktop as a desktop, so all the nonsense about plugging in other devices are of no relevence. I use my laptop as a self contained unit when travelling or sometimes sitting on my lap in lounge. Besides the keyboard is good enough not to have to plug in an external keyboard. The fact you are doing just that only reinforces my comments about Apple's poor ergonomics. I can use my 13" laptop keyboard quite happily and wouldn't bother with plugging in an external keyboard if I was to use it at home as a main machine.
Are you suggesting that non Apple laptops have some provisions for removing the keyboards and putting something else in there? I think not.
Whoosh, straight over your head, struggling with English again it seems, as I specifically said the oppositeNowhere did I imply or say you can swap laptop keyboards. Though now you mention it, in fact you could actually replace a Mac laptop keyboard with a Fingerworks keyboard, a company Apple now own. The gestures Mac trackpads are now implementing and the iPhone touch control, come from that very company.
Fingerworks (http://www.fingerworks.com/MacNTouch_product.html)
I'm hoping Apple use the whole concept as I really like gestures. They been in Opera for many years now.
So to explain again - One of the factors when choosing my laptop was good monitor and good keyboard. As it was going to be a Windows laptop, I could chose the best out of a very large selection of different form factors and layouts. Whereas Apple assume bizarrely assumes everyone is identical. 'Think Different', surely one of the most ironic ad taglines ever? It so happened that the best of each was found on a single machine and in the size I wanted - a size Apple didn't even make.
Well unless I'm still misunderstanding you, I have both "beauty" and the ability to plug in any input device I want, as long as its' FireWire or USB (various flavors of each).
Yup still missing the point completely. You shouldn't need to plug in an external device if it was designed better in the first place. Apple place beauty first, then ergonomics. Hardly form follows function. Apple used the same pokey keyboard on all sizes of its MBPs [a cost cutting measure], whereas say Sony design the keyboard to make maximum use of space for each size laptop.
Currently at 7.3%. But that's a HUGE increase in a few years. And its getting bigger all the time. The facts are that lots and lots of Windows users are switching and their market share continues to go up, not down like others.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=172736\")
I was talking worldwide, not the US [a distinction that seems to escape most Americans, 'World' Series my arse! ], Apple's share has always been a lot bigger in the US than elsewhere. Poor countries cannot afford expensive Macs. In Oct 2007 it was nearly double the worldwide usage, 6.1 Vs 3.2.
This site has an alternative take on the dubious stats you quoted, unsurprisingly he's a Windows person, but one who welcomes Mac growth, so not a slavish fanboy.
[a href=\"http://community.winsupersite.com/blogs/paul/archive/2008/02/03/the-mac-s-market-share-is-not-7-57-percent-sorry.aspx]Mac market share[/url]
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I use a laptop as a laptop and a desktop as a desktop, so all the nonsense about plugging in other devices are of no relevence.
You're proving you have no relevance. You bitch about Laptops (presumably Maclap tops) not having the ability to use certain devices which is nonsense, now you tell us that anyone who wishes to use such devices on their Mac's isn't relevant. Get your story straight. It just so happens that a Macbook Pro is a great business machine you can hook up to a larger display and keyboard (and other devices), then take on the road. Oh, running more than one or two OS's too! That you decided for us here that we should only use laptops for one use and desktops for another shows you're not willing to discuss this logically, you have a prejudices against Apple and just want to make what was a useful thread, another silly "Mac versus Windows" slug feast. No thinks, you've proven to me so far that there's no reason to continue talking to you as an adult about this subject.
I use my laptop as a self contained unit when travelling or sometimes sitting on my lap in lounge. Besides the keyboard is good enough not to have to plug in an external keyboard. The fact you are doing just that only reinforces my comments about Apple's poor ergonomics.
No, it only reinforces to me that you don't have a good idea how to use these tools. The Intel chip in this Macbook Pro is fast enough for Lightroom and Photoshop work indeed. But its still got a 15" display (I could go 17" but that's too large to haul around for me, but at least that's another option). I have the Macbook driving a 23" display which if you understand the math here, is considerably larger and for occasional image editing, easily calibrated and profiled. I also have no issues with the MacBook Pro keyboard on the road, but why NOT have a full sized keyboard? Its as easy as plugging in a USB device. And I have the Macbook taking up virtually no desk space since it fits VERTICALLY off to the side in a stand. If I go on the road with it, its about 24 seconds to unhook everything, get up and go. I still have a superb albeit smaller display and keyboard. So your so called point about poor ergonomics is all in your mind.
I can use my 13" laptop keyboard quite happily and wouldn't bother with plugging in an external keyboard if I was to use it at home as a main machine.
Well good for you bud, so can I. But my display is a full 10" bigger than yours <g>.
So to explain again - One of the factors when choosing my laptop was good monitor and good keyboard.
Well when you can use a 23" or better, a 26" wide gamut LCD, let me know. I can currently do that today with the Macbook, then go back to the 15" for travel. I can tell you with absolute certainly, whatever laptop you have, its display isn't anywhere the quality of the NEC I have that I can drive from the MacBook. When the NEC 30" comes in, the NEC wide gamut 26" will replace the 23" Cinema display. Yup, the card in the Macbook can drive it just fine. Oh, I should just use the 15" display because you say I can't make the Laptop mutlitask? Bull crap.
Yup still missing the point completely. You shouldn't need to plug in an external device if it was designed better in the first place.
You're really being ridiculous. I can sit on the couch and surf the web just like you, but for lots of work, there's no way you can tell anyone here that driving a display nearly twice is large is a poor idea IF YOU WISH.
We're done here. You want to be "right" despite pretty piss poor logic and a troll like negative attitude towards Apple products, great.
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I was hoping (but to be honest, not really expecting) people to discuss this in an adult and USEFUL way. I guess we did well to hold out so long before the fighting broke out.
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You're proving you have no relevance. You bitch about Laptops (presumably Maclap tops) not having the ability to use certain devices...
Nope never did. I said they were not as ergonomic due to beauty coming before usage and were also cost cutting in using the same size keyboard in all MBPs.
.....which is nonsense, now you tell us that anyone who wishes to use such devices on their Mac's isn't relevant. Get your story straight.
I did, you are the one with reading problems, so unless you can learn to read a post correctly before replying in future, I shall simply ignore your nonsense from now on. You're the one who brought in irrelevent devices that one can attach to laptops at home. Who cares, not me as I don't use a laptop at home for work? and as I said before, needing to plug external input devices to a largish laptop only reinforces my point, not good enough in the first place.
It just so happens that a Macbook Pro is a great business machine you can hook up to a larger display and keyboard (and other devices), then take on the road. Oh, running more than one or two OS's too! That you decided for us here that we should only use laptops for one use and desktops for another shows you're not willing to discuss this logically, you have a prejudices against Apple and just want to make what was a useful thread, another silly "Mac versus Windows" slug feast.
No, I just described how I use a laptop. Didn't tell anyone else what to do, which is what you seem to be doing. I simply think VAIO laptops have better keyboards than Apple laptops. What heresy!!!!!! I must go off and whip myself with barbed wire.
No thinks, you've proven to me so far that there's no reason to continue talking to you as an adult about this subject.
What childish behaviour and delightfully ironic. You are the one who cannot read and started talking about using laptops as destop machines and all the gadgets you can plug into it to make up for the inherent deficiencies I commented on when using them as laptops, not desktop replacements. I use a laptop when travelling and have no need to add anything to it let alone a 23" display, which only a complete idiot would suggest. Which you do! Duh!
Well good for you bud, so can I. But my display is a full 10" bigger than yours <g>.
Boastfull + innacurate. I have dual displays at home and a 30" is slightly bigger, but not enough to warrant buying one. Unless I use that as part of a 3 monitor desktop.
No, it only reinforces to me that you don't have a good idea how to use these tools. The Intel chip in this Macbook Pro is fast enough for Lightroom and Photoshop work indeed.
Just like my 30 month old 13" Vaio and that has what relevence to ergonomics? Oh yes, none. And how is prefering to use a desktop at home, not knowing how to use tools. Are you implying that anyone who doesn't use an laptop for everything is an incompetent? And as the max RAM for laptops is only 4G, a desktop [max 32G]up kind of beats it for sheer grunt power, especially an 8 core machine.
But its still got a 15" display (I could go 17" but that's too large to haul around for me, but at least that's another option).
but no usuable 13", which is my preference for travelling.
I have the Macbook driving a 23" display which if you understand the math here, is considerably larger and for occasional image editing, easily calibrated and profiled. I also have no issues with the MacBook Pro keyboard on the road, but why NOT have a full sized keyboard? Its as easy as plugging in a USB device. And I have the Macbook taking up virtually no desk space since it fits VERTICALLY off to the side in a stand. If I go on the road with it, its about 24 seconds to unhook everything, get up and go. I still have a superb albeit smaller display and keyboard. So your so called point about poor ergonomics is all in your mind.
BTW "Ergonomics is the science of people-machine relationships. An ergonomically designed product implies that the device blends smoothly with a person's body or actions. I.e. without adding extra kit to make it usuable.
And I don't use a laptop at home for work and the MBP keyboard is way inferior to my my 13" VAIO even the one on the enormous 17" MBP. In fact I'd be as happy writing a script on my laptop as my desktop keyboard.
Well when you can use a 23" or better, a 26" wide gamut LCD, let me know. I can currently do that today with the Macbook, then go back to the 15" for travel. I can tell you with absolute certainly, whatever laptop you have, its display isn't anywhere the quality of the NEC I have that I can drive from the MacBook. When the NEC 30" comes in, the NEC wide gamut 26" will replace the 23" Cinema display. Yup, the card in the Macbook can drive it just fine. Oh, I should just use the 15" display because you say I can't make the Laptop mutlitask? Bull crap.
You're really being ridiculous. I can sit on the couch and surf the web just like you, but for lots of work, there's no way you can tell anyone here that driving a display nearly twice is large is a poor idea IF YOU WISH.
Learn to read you moron, before you make yourself look any dumber. I use a laptop for travelling or rarely on couch downstairs. I doubt I've even used it at home this year, other than to unload info. I never said anything about multitasking, you're just ranting now.
We're done here. You want to be "right" despite pretty piss poor logic and a troll like negative attitude towards Apple products, great.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173111\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
You are an illiterate fool, who seems to ignore what was actually written and appear to have gone a bit crazy as I dared to not fawn at the altar of Apple. I just use whatever tool is best for the job. Such as a laptop when out and dual monitors and a desktop when home and even though I own Apple gear, I'm not blind to their many flaws like some pathetic fanboy.
If you want to use a laptop as your main computer , I don't mind in the slightest, if that suits your needs, great. Your needs are not mine and I prefer to use a desktop. Not sure why you need to froth at the mouth about me using a laptop just for it's primary purpose?
In case you missed it, yet again.
[span style=\'font-size:21pt;line-height:100%\']I use a laptop when travelling and not for work at home[/span]
[span style=\'font-size:21pt;line-height:100%\']I use a laptop when travelling and not for work at home[/span]
[span style=\'font-size:21pt;line-height:100%\']I use a laptop when travelling and not for work at home[/span]
[span style=\'font-size:21pt;line-height:100%\']I use a laptop when travelling and not for work at home[/span]
[span style=\'font-size:21pt;line-height:100%\']I use a laptop when travelling and not for work at home[/span]
[span style=\'font-size:14pt;line-height:100%\']So wittering on about 23" monitors and external keyboards/trackballs etc is of no use or relevence. At all[/span]
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I was hoping (but to be honest, not really expecting) people to discuss this in an adult and USEFUL way. I guess we did well to hold out so long before the fighting broke out.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173284\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The problem was actually not reading posts correctly, which is the usual issue with forums, just like people do not listen carefully in real life.
Andrew[DigitalDog] is better at maths than reading.
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I was hoping (but to be honest, not really expecting) people to discuss this in an adult and USEFUL way. I guess we did well to hold out so long before the fighting broke out.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173284\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Me too but if you look over JJJ's posts (whoever the heck he is), its apparent he's got an agenda and is ill mannered. Is there one where he didn't go out of his (or her) way to go OT and slam Apple*, despite my original intentions of aiding him (Finder replacements). The troll has issues, I'm not even going to reply, let alone read his rants. Can someone please refill his meds.
*More posts of our boy JJJ behaving badly:http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=22859&hl=
And now for something completely different....
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An additional observation on merits of each OS.
I've just got a new Mac Pro and it's hooked up to my dual monitors. Now I've been using Macs on and off for years, but never with a dual monitor setup before. Sadly I have to say I really hate it.
The reason, the file menu options [File, Edit, Window, Tools, Help etc] are disassociated from the programme. I was never that keen on this way of working, but with duallies, urgh! If your programme is open on the screen that doesn't have the File options you have to go back and fore quite unneccessarily. With Windows the File options are always next to the programme.
Also it's very confusing if you have different apps open full screen on each as the File menu options my relate to the programme that isn't under the file menus.
I'd do some annotated screen shots to demo what I mean on each OS, but I'm leaving house in next few minutes, so maybe next week.
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Go into Display Control panel, select Arrangement and move the menu (white line) to the screen you wish. Easy.
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An additional observation on merits of each OS.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173290\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
This is more of an observation on "your familiarity with each OS" and not their "merits" Andrew's post shows you how to customize the setup for dual monitors, that you admit to not being familiar with.
My original posts were trying to help you learn some aspects of the OS with which you are less familiar, as I think Andrew's were. You'll likely receive a more positive/helpful response once you've gotten over the "It's different from what I'm used to, therefore it's bad/stupid" stage
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This is more of an observation on "your familiarity with each OS" and not their "merits" Andrew's post shows you how to customize the setup for dual monitors, that you admit to not being familiar with.
My original posts were trying to help you learn some aspects of the OS with which you are less familiar, as I think Andrew's were. You'll likely receive a more positive/helpful response once you've gotten over the "It's different from what I'm used to, therefore it's bad/stupid" stage
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173376\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Well said!
It appears we have someone that is new to the Mac but with a pretty strong bias based mostly on misunderstandings which may explain the frustration but not unnecessarily the ill tone. Sometimes you can't help people who have developed a strong opinion based mostly on ignorance.
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I'm surprised that color management differences haven't been discussed in this thread!
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I was hoping (but to be honest, not really expecting) people to discuss this in an adult and USEFUL way. I guess we did well to hold out so long before the fighting broke out.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=173284\")
To get back to a useful discussion:
All these questions pertain to an iBook G4 12", 10.3.9, 640MB RAM.
1. I have not received a response to my query regarding IrfanView. Would any of you kind souls who have Windows installed on your Macs download IrfanView
[a href=\"http://www.irfanview.com/]http://www.irfanview.com/[/url] Tell me what you think, and whether a similar freeware program exists for the Mac. This is what I want to do: convert my Betterlight Tif files to Jpeg in a batch operation with speed and quality. I'd also like to move from one image to the other via next/previous arrow keys, which function does not seem to exist in Preview or Graphic Converter.
2. Is there a way to ensure that windows open at maximum size to fill the screen? Can the dock be always hidden?
3. How do I ensure that I get the correct creation date when I download images from the Betterlight to the Mac? I've been busy the last few days, and now I have to change the dates on a hundred files before I copy them to another HDD and DVD.
Has this changed on later versions of OSX? If not, how do you handle it?
4. I'd like the trash icon to appear on the sidebar, so that I don't have to go back and forth. Can this be done?
Thanks in advance.
Cheers,
Kumar
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I'm surprised that color management differences haven't been discussed in this thread!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173529\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hi TechTalk. Another interesting comment, thanks. I wonder if this implies that one platform handles colour management better than the other and my guess would be that the Mac wins. Am I right?
Although I should say since going digital in a serious way, maybe 7 years ago, I have always had a calibrated monitor (PC) and not one single problem with matching screen image to that on my prints at all sizes up to about 60" wide (of course, allowing for the fact that prints are a reflective medium compared with a screen). I have used various Epson and HP printers, several monitors, including CRT and now LCD, and a wide variety of papers so maybe I have been lucky.
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I used to use Macs about 15 years ago, but had to switch to PCs when I changed careers to become a Certified Financial Planner™. However, the creative side of me (the side with the expensive dslrs) always longed for a Mac.
For 3 years before Jan 07, I used a maxed-out Dell Precision Workstation for Photoshop and Lightroom in addition to the ACT!, MS Office and other business apps. It worked very well, but the foibles of Windows XP Pro were always present (printers and apps sometimes just stopped working for no apparent reason).
My friend owns 2 Apple retail stores. In Jan 07 he showed me Windows XP running in Parallels on a MacBook Pro 15". I was sold right there. I purchased a MacBookPro 15" and 2 months later purchased a MacPro 8-core to replace my Dell workstation as my creative photo and video editing machine. Both of these run WinXP in Parallels.
I since did cross-platform upgrades through Adobe for PS and LR. I just installed the new Mac Office 2008 in addition to the current versions of iWorks and iLife. My life has gotten a lot easier since making the switch. The quality of my work is the same as before, it's just that the Mac platform makes it so much more fun, easier and faster to get things done. As advertised, it all works well together. Macs are not perfect, but I have a lot less issues with printers (a Dell color laser, HP laser and Epson R2400) and connectivity with my network and NAS devices since switching. When my daughter needed a laptop for school, I did not hesitate to buy her a white MacBook. She loves it!
For the PC-only apps that I must have for my business, they work great on my Macs running Parallels/WinXP Pro. ACT! 2008 Premium is a resource hog, but it runs fine in the Parallels environment. I do all of my business scanning, word processing, spreadsheets, etc. on the Mac side because it works better together as a system as compared to equivalent programs that I used to run on my PCs. The only issue now, is that since I run both WinXP and Mac OS X Leopard side-by-side at the same time during my work day, I have become much more appreciative of how fluid the Mac OS is compared to Windows.
Now, anyone want to buy a really nice Dell Precision 470 workstation?
Cheers.
Bud James
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Kumar, use Command-Delete [larger button] to send any selected file(s) to the Trash. No need to manually drag stuff to it, thus the default location on the Dock doesn't matter. There's also a shortcut to empty the Trash (look under the Finder menu).
___________________
4. I'd like the trash icon to appear on the sidebar, so that I don't have to go back and forth. Can this be done?
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To get back to a useful discussion:
All these questions pertain to an iBook G4 12", 10.3.9, 640MB RAM.
1. I have not received a response to my query regarding IrfanView. Would any of you kind souls who have Windows installed on your Macs download IrfanView
http://www.irfanview.com/ (http://www.irfanview.com/) Tell me what you think, and whether a similar freeware program exists for the Mac. This is what I want to do: convert my Betterlight Tif files to Jpeg in a batch operation with speed and quality. I'd also like to move from one image to the other via next/previous arrow keys, which function does not seem to exist in Preview or Graphic Converter.[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173647\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Sorry, I don't do Windows. It seems you are looking for freeware to do this. Seems like the job for a digital assets management program (which you might have to, ugh, buy) - I use iViewMedia to ingest (automatically sets creation date based on capture date in EXIF) cull organize batch rename etc. The built-in program on the iBook (iPhoto) did NOT contemplate folks with the technical/financial means to acquire huge BetterLight images - and yes, there are, as noted previously, more freeware programs for the PC out there. Like I said, I'd also be interested in BreezeBrowser, IrfanView and Qimage equivalents for the Mac
Plugsnpixels' hint for QuickLook lets you fill the screen and has Next/Previous arrows but doesn't convert. BTW if you don't know anyone who got a copy of PS Elements with a camera recently but who has PS already, it will only set you back $50-60 if you have to, you know , buy it - it'll batch process tiffs to jpegs and you can even add some editing into the automated workflow
2. Is there a way to ensure that windows open at maximum size to fill the screen? Can the dock be always hidden? [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173647\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Quicklook will do that (or do you mean 100% so each screen pixel is an image pixel??) Go to System Preferences to set the dock up as YOU would like it - mine is always hidden but you can put it left, bottom or right of the main screen, and it will become visible when you mouse over it.
3. How do I ensure that I get the correct creation date when I download images from the Betterlight to the Mac? I've been busy the last few days, and now I have to change the dates on a hundred files before I copy them to another HDD and DVD.
Has this changed on later versions of OSX? If not, how do you handle it? [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173647\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Does BetterLight include a capture date in EXIF?
4. I'd like the trash icon to appear on the sidebar, so that I don't have to go back and forth. Can this be done?
Thanks in advance.
Cheers,
Kumar
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173647\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
If you move the dock, you might be better off, but cmd-delete sounds even better
A book on OSX sounds like it would be a wise investment too
Perhaps someone else can chip in with a recommendation on the cheapest way to batch convert a bunch of tiffs to jpegs? However, I confess I'm still a little puzzled why you have the iBook when you said " I already have a PC laptop that does what I need." a few pages back!
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Kumar, use Command-Delete [larger button] to send any selected file(s) to the Trash. No need to manually drag stuff to it, thus the default location on the Dock doesn't matter. There's also a shortcut to empty the Trash (look under the Finder menu).
___________________
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173773\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thanks for that tip!
Cheers,
Kumar
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Sorry, I don't do Windows. It seems you are looking for freeware to do this. Seems like the job for a digital assets management program (which you might have to, ugh, buy) - I use iViewMedia to ingest (automatically sets creation date based on capture date in EXIF) cull organize batch rename etc. The built-in program on the iBook (iPhoto) did NOT contemplate folks with the technical/financial means to acquire huge BetterLight images - and yes, there are, as noted previously, more freeware programs for the PC out there. Like I said, I'd also be interested in BreezeBrowser, IrfanView and Qimage equivalents for the Mac
Um, I'm not looking for a digital assets management program. I simply want to see the images quickly and select the keepers. All the other stuff can happen later. I'm not talking of iPhoto. I use Preview to see the images on location as they are captured, and Graphic Converter to convert them to jpegs once I'm back home.
Plugsnpixels' hint for QuickLook lets you fill the screen and has Next/Previous arrows but doesn't convert. BTW if you don't know anyone who got a copy of PS Elements with a camera recently but who has PS already, it will only set you back $50-60 if you have to, you know , buy it - it'll batch process tiffs to jpegs and you can even add some editing into the automated workflow
QuickLook is for Leopard only? I think I may have a copy of PSElements somewhere. I've bought a few scanners and printers in the last few years! I like IrfanView because it's a small program, doesn't take up too much memory and has a great interface.
Quicklook will do that (or do you mean 100% so each screen pixel is an image pixel??) Go to System Preferences to set the dock up as YOU would like it - mine is always hidden but you can put it left, bottom or right of the main screen, and it will become visible when you mouse over it.
I mean that when I open any window, I'd like it to fill the screen and not have to drag the corner.
Does BetterLight include a capture date in EXIF?
Yes, it does. I can also add my notes, which appear as User Comment.
If you move the dock, you might be better off, but cmd-delete sounds even better A book on OSX sounds like it would be a wise investment too Perhaps someone else can chip in with a recommendation on the cheapest way to batch convert a bunch of tiffs to jpegs? However, I confess I'm still a little puzzled why you have the iBook when you said " I already have a PC laptop that does what I need." a few pages back!
I bought the iBook to learn the OS for when I buy an MFDB, which might be a Sinarback. Sinar has promised support for Windows, but that's a big if and when question. To learn both the Sinar workflow and the OS at the same time would be a little difficult for me. I'm sure a MacBook Pro isn't necessary to learn the OS? Leopard has many more features, but the basic underpinning and feel of the OS would be the same?
Cheers,
Kumar
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QuickLook is for Leopard only? I think I may have a copy of PSElements somewhere. I've bought a few scanners and printers in the last few years! I like IrfanView because it's a small program, doesn't take up too much memory and has a great interface.
Check out Post#38 in this thread - QuickLook is in Tiger also, but doesn't allow you to do anything other than, well, look quickly. With current memory management, using Elements won't hobble your machine
I mean that when I open any window, I'd like it to fill the screen and not have to drag the corner.
Don't know of any way to do that for ALL windows ALL the time - sort of defeats the concept of the desktop. The default in OSX is for the green button to fill the screen, but some programs will constrain that, the way Preview does. A couple of cmd-+ will scale an image up then the green button will fill the screen - no dragging required
I bought the iBook to learn the OS for when I buy an MFDB, which might be a Sinarback. Sinar has promised support for Windows, but that's a big if and when question. To learn both the Sinar workflow and the OS at the same time would be a little difficult for me. I'm sure a MacBook Pro isn't necessary to learn the OS? Leopard has many more features, but the basic underpinning and feel of the OS would be the same?
Cheers,
Kumar
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173831\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
OK I understand the need for the learning of the OS - I didn't mean to suggest you get a MacBook Pro , I meant to get a printed book to help with learning OSX. Leopard extends the OS , it doesn't change it a whole lot, apparently - but I've not upgraded yet. Hope you get your workflow sorted soon
Andy
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Thanks for taking the time to reply, Andy.
Check out Post#38 in this thread - QuickLook is in Tiger also, but doesn't allow you to do anything other than, well, look quickly.
I have 10.3.9 - Panther. And if QuickLook does not let me navigate from one image to the next, a little pointless, no? I hope someone with Windows on a Mac can take a look at IrfanView and let us know how it compares to similar Mac programs.
Don't know of any way to do that for ALL windows ALL the time - sort of defeats the concept of the desktop. The default in OSX is for the green button to fill the screen, but some programs will constrain that, the way Preview does. A couple of cmd-+ will scale an image up then the green button will fill the screen - no dragging required
I wanted a way to NOT have to press any buttons OR drag the corner. If it can't be done, I have to live with it.
OK I understand the need for the learning of the OS - I didn't mean to suggest you get a MacBook Pro , I meant to get a printed book to help with learning OSX.
I will certainly get a printed book. My answer was in response to your comment
However, I confess I'm still a little puzzled why you have the iBook when you said " I already have a PC laptop that does what I need." a few pages back!
Cheers,
Kumar
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I will certainly get a printed book.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=173854\")
You can also go here for info:
[a href=\"http://www.apple.com/findouthow/macosx/]http://www.apple.com/findouthow/macosx/[/url]
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You can also go here for info:
http://www.apple.com/findouthow/macosx/ (http://www.apple.com/findouthow/macosx/)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173858\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I just bought a Mac Pro.And don't know how to use a Mac quite yet.So mostly I use Bootcamp and run Windows XP Pro. I also have Photoshop CS3 and CS2 Windows version. I tried to take the FREE classes at the Apple Retail store , but found it a nightmare.I have ADHD and can't focus mentally too well. (No Pun intended ). They have their classes in the Apple store with about 50 people in the store coming and going and no place to sit. NOT a classroom to me!
I bought a book called (Mac OS X Leopard Edition, The Missing Manual, by David Pogue published by Pogue Press/ O'REILLY.) Works for me.I like to be alone and read.I talk to myself when I read too.Helps me focus.
But it's ok, I talk to my dog when I walk her too.
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Thanks for taking the time to reply, Andy.
I have 10.3.9 - Panther. And if QuickLook does not let me navigate from one image to the next, a little pointless, no?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173854\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
It does let you look at and navigate from one to the next (or previous) so it's better than Preview but it doesn't let you delete, convert or (re)save etc. Elements actions/batch etc should help with that...
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If you want to empty the Trash after hitting Command+Delete, hit Shift+Command+Delete.
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You can also go here for info:
http://www.apple.com/findouthow/macosx/ (http://www.apple.com/findouthow/macosx/)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173858\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Useful link, Lightstand. Thanks.
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Go into Display Control panel, select Arrangement and move the menu (white line) to the screen you wish. Easy.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173317\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I have it on the screen I want, but if you'd read post properly you'd realise that wasn't the problem. As there's only one menu bar and two screens.
This is more of an observation on "your familiarity with each OS" and not their "merits" Andrew's post shows you how to customize the setup for dual monitors, that you admit to not being familiar with.
My original posts were trying to help you learn some aspects of the OS with which you are less familiar, as I think Andrew's were. You'll likely receive a more positive/helpful response once you've gotten over the "It's different from what I'm used to, therefore it's bad/stupid" stage
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173376\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Actually I knew how to rearrange monitors and the menu bar, the problem has nothing to do with lack of familiarity of Macs [I've used them for some time in fact, though not with Leopard, which is why I overlooked coverflow], but the issue is simply down to how OSX works. And in this respect it is markedly inferior to Windows, due to the disassociation of menu bar and the programme window.
As for Andrew, he misread posts [not for the first time], got all fanboyish and defensive before talking pure bollox, arguing about stuff of no relevence to the original point I made about ergonomics and looks. And pathetically blamed me for his errors.
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I have it on the screen I want, but if you'd read post properly you'd realise that wasn't the problem. As there's only one menu bar and two screens.
So you want two (cloned) menu bars on two screens?
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Well said!
Thopugh sadly off the mark
It appears we have someone that is new to the Mac but with a pretty strong bias based mostly on misunderstandings which may explain the frustration but not unnecessarily the ill tone. Sometimes you can't help people who have developed a strong opinion based mostly on ignorance.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173378\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
We appear have someone who is new to English and cannot read posts and behaves like a childish foolish fanboy.
I also have little patience with illiterate fools.
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Look, you clearly "don't get it" JJJ.
You're NOT running two monitors, you're running one big one, you're simply spanning one desktop using two devices.
So Windows allows you to clone two identical menu's to two displays (cause that's pretty dumb).
Lastly, if you really want a more intelligent fix (not that you'd find it intelligent), you can try DejaMenu which is a lot smarter about handling this than popping a cloned menu on a secondary (actually spanned) display:
http://homepage.mac.com/khsu/DejaMenu/DejaMenu.html (http://homepage.mac.com/khsu/DejaMenu/DejaMenu.html)
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Um, I'm not looking for a digital assets management program. I simply want to see the images quickly and select the keepers. All the other stuff can happen later.
Photomechanic is very fast for looking through images and crossplatform too, so may be ideal for what you want.
I used it a lot before LR appeared. Not free though.
I mean that when I open any window, I'd like it to fill the screen and not have to drag the corner.[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=173831\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The green button is not like Windows as sadly it's not maximise, it's make bigger or make smaller. The only workaround is to drag window to size manually when you first open each programme you want full screen.
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Look, you clearly "don't get it" JJJ. You're NOT running two monitors, you're running one big one, you're simply spanning one desktop using two devices.
Gosh really, no! </Sarcasm> Funny I'd actually spotted that. Probably as I've done the same for many years now with Windows. And the Windows taskbar can actually span the two monitors [if you want], as opposed to simply having an extra monitor next to the one with the dock/menu.
So Windows allows you to clone two identical menu's to two displays (cause that's pretty dumb).
That's not what I was refering to. Pay attention for once. Have you even used Windows?
Though like the Mac, Windows can also mirror displays, which is actually very handy at times for doing presentations on a second larger screen.
Lastly, if you really want a more intelligent fix (not that you'd find it intelligent), you can try DejaMenu which is a lot smarter about handling this than popping a cloned menu on a secondary (actually spanned) display:
http://homepage.mac.com/khsu/DejaMenu/DejaMenu.html (http://homepage.mac.com/khsu/DejaMenu/DejaMenu.html)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=174396\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I don't want a cloned menu. I want the Menu to be at top of every programme window, not the opposite end of a very large desktop, which Deja Menu appears to sort of do. Interesting that you recommend something that's trying to emulate MS behaviour, to make up for OSX's poor ergonomics. I thank you for the reference if not the misplaced abuse. That 'intelligent' fix as you call it, is to specifically fix what I originally pointed out as being broken.
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That 'intelligent' fix as you call it, is to specifically fix what I originally pointed out as being broken.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=174403\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Right, got it. Any 3rd party utility for the Mac is there because the initial OS is broken, ill designed because Apple spends all its time making pretty, non functional toys. Meanwhile, the slew of such products for Windows isn't to fix likewise broken OS design but more choices for Windows users.
Yes, I run Windows (on a Mac). I do so as infrequently as humanly possible.
I think you're right all along. We Mac users are just confused by all this eye candy, real macho users run Windows (one could suggest you're trying to compensate elsewhere...) Thanks too for describing your needs so elegantly, you're obviously an English professor and one who really knows his Mac's.
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Photomechanic is very fast for looking through images and crossplatform too, so may be ideal for what you want.
I used it a lot before LR appeared. Not free though.
The green button is not like Windows as sadly it's not maximise, it's make bigger or make smaller. The only workaround is to drag window to size manually when you first open each programme you want full screen.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=174397\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thanks, jjj. I knew about Photomechanic. I wish someone with a Mac and Windows would try out IrfanView and see how powerful it is. And then maybe they could appreciate at least something on the dark side I do not want to buy any software for the Mac right now, until I get comfortable using it. When I get my Sinarback, I will probably buy a better Mac laptop and then I can decide what I want. And perhaps Sinar will support Windows soon, so all this will be unnecessary
The window maximising is something I find annoying on the Mac. I did the workaround, at least for the programs I use frequently.
Cheers,
Kumar
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Guys (no need for names - just read above a few posts) PLEASE take your childish bickering somewhere else. This was a useful thread til you two polluted it. It still could be helpful to people like me who are trying to direct a good amount of money and want some advice. Both of you have often given freely of your time and experience and I'm sure helped many people ( me included) but this display of bad manners does neither of you credit. Re-read your posts and ask yourself what impression people gain.
I will not waste time responding to any verbal abuse as a result of this post so please don't make me your next "playmate".
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The green button is not like Windows as sadly it's not maximise, it's make bigger or make smaller. The only workaround is to drag window to size manually when you first open each programme you want full screen.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=174397\")
here is a free 3rd party utility that will make the green button maximise to fill your momitor's screen. it is called Stoplight
[a href=\"http://lifehacker.com/software/mac-os-x/download-of-the-day-stoplight-mac-202621.php]http://lifehacker.com/software/mac-os-x/do...-mac-202621.php[/url]
now cross that off your immature "macs cant do this list"
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Guys (no need for names - just read above a few posts) PLEASE take your childish bickering somewhere else.
Agreed, I'm done.
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Thanks, ecpny. On the page you linked, there*s a comment that says:
Warning: this program can REALLY REALLY mess up your system. This stopped Quicksilver, Endnote, and a few other programs from opening on my system. Be warned: this program is buggy as all hell.
Do you use this utility yourself? Being new to the Mac, I*m a little apprehensive.
Cheers,
Kumar
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Thanks, ecpny. On the page you linked, there*s a comment that says:
Warning: this program can REALLY REALLY mess up your system. This stopped Quicksilver, Endnote, and a few other programs from opening on my system. Be warned: this program is buggy as all hell.
Do you use this utility yourself? Being new to the Mac, I*m a little apprehensive.
Cheers,
Kumar
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=174671\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Kumar
Works fine for me, I use Quicksilver and have never had any compatibility issues.
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Kumar
Works fine for me, I use Quicksilver and have never had any compatibility issues.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=174674\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thanks, I*ll give it a try today. I*m sure a lot of longtime Mac users might also like that they can tweak things the way they want. Please pass on any other tips you may have.
Cheers,
Kumar
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Thanks, I*ll give it a try today. I*m sure a lot of longtime Mac users might also like that they can tweak things the way they want. Please pass on any other tips you may have.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=174676\")
I used Quicksilver for awhile, no issues. Its quite nice. In the end, I preferred LaunchBar for launching just about anything you can imagine installed on your hard drive. It learns as you use it, so you can type "App" and if the first time you select Apple Script Editor instead of Application Folder, next time it will default to that. QS had a nice clipboard extender but I ended up finding PTHPasteboard more powerful and useful. But I'd certainly encourage you to look into QuickSilver, it has a loyal following:
[a href=\"http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/22549]http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/22549[/url]
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here is a free 3rd party utility that will make the green button maximise to fill your momitor's screen. it is called Stoplight
http://lifehacker.com/software/mac-os-x/do...-mac-202621.php (http://lifehacker.com/software/mac-os-x/download-of-the-day-stoplight-mac-202621.php)
Thanks for that tip. Much appreciated.
now cross that off your immature "macs cant do this list"
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=174550\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Not without a fix for this 'annoyance' by a third party, they cannot.
And admitting that Mac aren't perfect is mature, it's maintaining they are beyond criticism isn't.
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Guys (no need for names - just read above a few posts) PLEASE take your childish bickering somewhere else. This was a useful thread til you two polluted it. It still could be helpful to people like me who are trying to direct a good amount of money and want some advice. Both of you have often given freely of your time and experience and I'm sure helped many people ( me included) but this display of bad manners does neither of you credit. Re-read your posts and ask yourself what impression people gain.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=174449\")
I simply tried to give a balanced view of both systems [I think both are good and both are flawed, albeit in different ways] and was attacked by someone who repeatedly failed to read my posts correctly and not for the first time either sadly.
Illiteracy/hasty reading was the issue here [not Mac vs PC] and is all too often the real problem with many thread disputes. I always try to take my time to carefully read and reread a post before responding to try and avoid these misunderstandings. But if the other person doesn't reciprocate..... I now have little patience with repeated stupidity.
Unlike like some, I'm certrainly not a rabid fanboy of Macs/PCs or Canon/Nikons and will use whichever brand does the best job at the time, regardless of how good they may have been previously. I have no brand loyalty in that respect, it's not like big companies really care about me or you. On that note, this is an interesting read [a href=\"http://www.amazon.com/Corporation-Pathological-Pursuit-Profit-Power/dp/0743247442] The Corporation[/url]. Maybe Apple is the 'The Boston Strangler' and M$ 'The Yorkshire Ripper'!
And if you anyone still thinks Apple are cuddly and nice [part of their carefully cultivated USP] this is worth a look.
Apple try to control/censor/spin news (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44w-RYurbN4)
And if you think MS is run by staid execs
Steve Ballmer going completely loopy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvsboPUjrGc) Quite scary!
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I am a proud, f*****g fanboy, go MAC. They've made smart decisions when they've needed to and the boys at Microsoft are still sitting in rooms trying to figure out how to catch some of that fire.
JJJ, you played the game, qualified explanations are boring and wimpy. Kiss and make up.
: )
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I've been thinking about buying a MacPro, but when I think about it, I say to myself, "Why?"
I was customizing a MacPro on the Apple website. Two 3.2GHZ Quad Core Xeon processors (NICE), up to 32GB RAM (NICE), lots of hardrive space available, and really crappy video cards for really awesome Apple 30 inch monitors. But the price was too high for me.
Then I went to the Dell website and customized a WORKSTATION with 2 Quad Core processors and a video card that blows the mac cards out of the water, and it's still cheaper.
Then I went to the Alienware website, made myself a PC with an Intel Core Extreme with TRI (yes, 3) 768MB Nvidia top of the line video cards (uh, 2.3GB of Video Memory, anyone?). The price was high, but not much more than the Mac. I'd say the price was almost equal, and the alienware would blow the mac away for video performance if you can configure Windows to perform perfectly (like I can).
I've noticed the "windows crashes and locks up and has viruses, blahblah" has become the stereotype for PCs. And don't get me started on those commercials.
Let me say this:I have an "old" Dell computer. It stays on 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 12 months a year, without constant restarting, no lockups, blue screens of death, viruses, or any performance issues. This bitch keeps working and working.
I don't know what to think with people who have PC problems and go running to the Mac.
Perhaps you keep too many of those preinstalled programs that come with your computer running in the background? (Something that a Mac won't have, most likely).
Anyway, I'm still on the fence about getting a Mac, but I'd rather just get a super powerful Dell Workstation instead.
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I was customizing a MacPro on the Apple website. Two 3.2GHZ Quad Core Xeon processors (NICE), up to 32GB RAM (NICE), lots of hardrive space available, and really crappy video cards for really awesome Apple 30 inch monitors.
There are at least three video cards available, and what makes the least expensive one crappy? You want to drive more than two 30" Cinema's (which are just so-so displays)?
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The MacPro is capable of being so powerful, and I guess for performance close to the Nvidia 8800 Ultra x3, you'd have to get the Nvidia Quadro FX 5600 for $2850 more.
But those ATI cards aren't quite in the same league as a top Nvidia card in Tri mode.
I'm not thinking about more than one monitor. I'm thinking about gaming (I'm a PC guy, remember?)
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T-1000, I don't understand exactly what 3 high-end video cards with 2.3 GB of VRAM is actually going to GIVE you. Is it going to improve your ability to edit photos in any way? What applications on the PC side actually LEVERAGE 3 video cards?
Now if you're talking about SLI gaming that's one thing -- gaming on the PC is better than it is on the Mac. That's really not too much of a debate. But for photographic purposes, is this really a specification war?
The NVIDIA 8800GT is a very good graphics card, and OS X can actually USE it to do everyday things (Core Image, Core Video, etc.,).
As far as Windows has viruses... well that's true. Sure, if you're diligent you can avoid them. But then again there are approximately 10 MILLION PCs in the US alone that are spam sending zombies (this information from a friend of mine who is an AV product manager at Symantec, who has to provide nightly updates to their corporate customers so they can block IP ranges that these machines switch to). The fact that there are MILLIONS of these machines means that many people are NOT diligent at running AV updates, eh?
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Indeed, I'm thinking gaming. Everything is pretty equal in terms of media editing I suppose.
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But those ATI cards aren't quite in the same league as a top Nvidia card in Tri mode.
To do what?
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Indeed, I'm thinking gaming. Everything is pretty equal in terms of media editing I suppose.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=176494\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The pierced face and genitals set (er, "creatives") seem to vehemently prefer Macs to work on Photoshop/Illustrator/etc. I can't speak for them (no piercings TYVM ;-) ) but there's a reason they prefer the Mac I reckon.
I also know when I was on the Antarctic trip that the entire staff Michael brought along ran Lightroom on the Mac. Not sure whether it was causative or correlative :-)
Again, gaming is something separate and I won't argue that you can game better on a PC. There is no Mac that supports SLI. You *can* stuff 4 video cards in a Mac and run 8 30" displays off one... if that's something that floats your boat.
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To do what?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=176495\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Play a high spec 3D game or work in a demanding graphics/3D application at a resolution of 2560x1600.
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The fact that there are MILLIONS of these machines means that many people are NOT diligent at running AV updates, eh?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=176493\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
That's exactly the issue, plus they are targetted. As Mac grows its market share, so too will they be targetted more and more as it becomes worthwhile to do so.
Mac has an advantage so long as Mac users don't take the ostrich approach - there's time to build the defences before that critical mass takes hold and be ready for the onslaught when it comes. Could be a real point of distinction - ahead of the game instead of behind it - but only if the fanboys stop insisting they're invulnerable. The relatively closed hardware architecture gives tremendous advantages over Windows having to try to deal with a squillion different hardware iterations.
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If you are thinking of moving from PC to MAC and you use Epson professional printers, you may wish to first do some careful research on the user-friendliness of the Epson driver with the Apple operating system you will be using.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=171884\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
When Leopard first came out, the Epson drivers wouldn't work with my 3800. the new drivers work quite well.
Steve
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I've been vacillating about getting a new tower and this was enough to get me to pull the trigger (a really great deal on Amazon):
Apple Mac Pro 8-Core 3GHz Xeon Workstation for $2,600 after rebate + free shipping
Amazon.com offers the Apple Mac Pro 8-Core 3GHz Xeon Workstation for $2,799.99. This $200 mail-in rebate cuts it to $2,599.99. With free shipping, that's the lowest total price we could find for this configuration; for comparison, Apple charges about $1,000 more. This Mac Pro features two Intel Xeon 3GHz quad-core processors, 2GB RAM, 320GB hard drive, SuperDrive, ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT 256MB video card, and more. Deal ends March 11.
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As I may be migrating one of my windows workstations to a Mac Pro, I read this thread with interest .
Can I ask a question?
The main applications that will be run on the Mac Pro are Lightroom and Photoshop. I had been considering a 8 core machine, but from what I've read elsewhere there does not seem to be a significant increase in speed over 4 core units with the same processor speed for these applications.
The tests I have been able to find were run under Tiger not the latest Leopard OS.
My question is obvious. With Photoshop and Lightroom are 8 cores really a waste of money?
Thanks
John C
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As I may be migrating one of my windows workstations to a Mac Pro, I read this thread with interest .
Can I ask a question?
The main applications that will be run on the Mac Pro are Lightroom and Photoshop. I had been considering a 8 core machine, but from what I've read elsewhere there does not seem to be a significant increase in speed over 4 core units with the same processor speed for these applications.
The tests I have been able to find were run under Tiger not the latest Leopard OS.
My question is obvious. With Photoshop and Lightroom are 8 cores really a waste of money?
Thanks
John C
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=176862\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
As soon as I saw a demo of Windows XP running on a Mac using Parallels in Jan 07, I instantly bought a MacBook Pro to replace my Dell Dimension laptop. It runs Windows faster and more reliably than my Dell. I have to run Windows for my financial planning practice to use ACT! CRM and IE 6.0 for IE specific secure web sites. When I'm in my home office, I have this docked to a Dell 27" wide screen display to have the benefit of dual monitors.
I bought a MacPro 8 Core from my friend's Apple store when they first became available in Mar 08. Mine was the first one that he sold. Since upgrading to Leopard (did a clean install upon his recommendation) the system cranks. I use LR and PS3 along with the usual iLife, iWork and MS Office 2008 apps. I also run Windows XP Pro using Parallels. It all works very well together.
I have a 1GB drive for OS and regular docs and files, 2x750 GB drives in a RAID 0 config (1.4TB) for my photo and video files, and a 750GB drive for a mirror backup of my 1TB drive using SuperDuper. Via Firewire 800, I have a 1.4TB Iomega UltraMax RAID external drive to back up my internal RAID and an older Lacie Bigger Disk Extreme 1.2TB dedicated for Time Machine backups that exclude the RAID disks. This system drives a 24" Eizo ColorEdge CE240W display that is calibrated using an Eye One colorimeter.
After installing Leopard, I upgraded the RAM from 2GB to a total of 12GB. That made it quicker too.
That said, since I was coming from a 3 year old Dell Precision 470 workstation running WinXP Pro for LR and CS2, any new mac would seem faster and easier to use.
The only problem that I've had is that because I run Windows every day for work next to the Mac OS, I am constantly reminded by how inelegant Windows is compared to the Mac OS. It seems that 99% of my tech problems stem from the Windows environment.
Anyone want to buy a pristine condition Dell Precision 470 workstation?
Cheers.
Bud James
North Wales, PA
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My question is obvious. With Photoshop and Lightroom are 8 cores really a waste of money?
Perhaps. See this:
http://www.macworld.com/article/59022/2007...pro8.html?t=205 (http://www.macworld.com/article/59022/2007/07/macpro8.html?t=205)
FIY, that amazing deal on Amazon ended up being a mistake on their part. Figures. Few hours after I ordered it, got an email that it was a mistake and the would not honor it.
Between that issue, and the above article, I might just go with a 3ghz dual core referb that's a pretty good deal ($2299).
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And now for something completely different....
http://blip.tv/file/340692/ (http://blip.tv/file/340692/)
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Great movie! Says it all!
I finally switched last year. After more years than I care to remember managing networks with thousands of Windows nodes and a hundred+ Windows servers, I had had enough. Sure, Windows can be stable if you never add and remove software from it, but once you start doing that, it is all downhill.
Unfortunately, Microsoft chose to stick with their central registry and DLL concepts, the Achilles heels of Windows platforms. I had Unix-based systems that had been up for a couple of years without a restart despite adding, updating and removing software.
On the other hand, I do love Windows systems for the same reason that my auto mechanic loves Jeeps. Lots of business and income.
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BTW Something that may catch out those new to Macs is when you move folders to a drive with a folder with the same name, it simply replaces the entire folder, without regard to content. [span style=\'font-size:12pt;line-height:100%\']This could easily lose you lots of data/images[/span] if you expect it to work the way PCs do. and is something I've only ever seen mentioned once, with regard to OS differences. Which is odd as it's probably the most important/dangerous difference.
This may sound trivial but one of the things I like best about the Apple OS is that you can elect turn the cap lock key off.
I was in the Apple store yesterday to ask about eSata drives [got a blank look] and every MacAir I had a look at whilst there managed to lock up when you tried to look at tackpad preferences - I wanted to try out the new trackpad, but as usual the default is everything turned off!? Plus it may be thin, but its still bigger than my Vaio. So a bit disapointing.
My brand new MacPro also managed to lose one of my hard drives. Pathfinder could still see and access it, but Finder [and hence the OS] was completely stumped. I originally had two 1TB disks mirrored, but decided to un-mirror them and dupe externally as I needed more than 1TB storage internally, but after a couple of days of using them independently, Finder suddenly forgot that's what I'd done. So after trying everything else Time Machine/OS Reinstall I had to flatten the drives using Disk Utility and start all over again, including recopying 800G of data. Nothing lost as new machines/kit always goes through a probationary period.
So if you expect Macs to never crash, work flawlessly etc, don't get your hopes up as they are in fact no better than PCs, probably as they are only a rebadged PC anyway.
And where Andrew learnt his err 'social' skills
http://www.binaryaspects.com/2007/12/08/7-...e-a-mac-fanboy/ (http://www.binaryaspects.com/2007/12/08/7-easy-steps-to-become-a-mac-fanboy/)
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Mac's folder behavior is different is certain aspects - here's a nice article explaining the difference. Interestlingly - MS's .NET framework supports application deployment that *exactly* mimics Mac's Replace Existing folder behavior
http://www.xvsxp.com/files/copying.php (http://www.xvsxp.com/files/copying.php)
I originally had two 1TB disks mirrored, but decided to un-mirror them and dupe externally as I needed more than 1TB storage internally, but after a couple of days of using them independently, Finder suddenly forgot that's what I'd done.
Why anyone would "unmirror" a RAID volume then continuing to use the degraded partition is beyond me, irrespective of OS
So after trying everything else Time Machine/OS Reinstall I had to flatten the drives using Disk Utility and start all over again, including recopying 800G of data. Nothing lost as new machines/kit always goes through a probationary period
Yup! Thats the way to do it! Again under any O/S
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And now for something completely different....
http://blip.tv/file/340692/ (http://blip.tv/file/340692/)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=176904\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hilarious! After I stopped laughing, I forwarded this link to my friend who owns 2 Apple retail stores.
Andrew, thanks for sharing.
Bud James
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And now for something completely different....
http://blip.tv/file/340692/ (http://blip.tv/file/340692/)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=176904\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Good find Andrew!
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Why anyone would "unmirror" a RAID volume then continuing to use the degraded partition is beyond me, irrespective of OS
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=176974\")
I didn't use the degraded partition. It was flattened and all repartitioned afresh. So it was once again simply two hard drives, used as two hard drives.
Mac's folder behavior is different is certain aspects - here's a nice article explaining the difference. Interestlingly - MS's .NET framework supports application deployment that *exactly* mimics Mac's Replace Existing folder behavior
[a href=\"http://www.xvsxp.com/files/copying.php]http://www.xvsxp.com/files/copying.php[/url]
Odd as the new version [Mac Vs Windows] of that site is blank on the OSX bit where it compares Filecopying.
Anyone know of any Mac File copying/moving utilities that is better than Finder's mext to useless [for my needs] method?
Directory Opus has got it spot on. The bold type shows you the file difference and even has a picture for image files and gives you several behavioural options. No Mac version sadly.
(http://nudel.dopus.com/opus9/wino9/2320_replace_skipidentical.png)
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As I may be migrating one of my windows workstations to a Mac Pro, I read this thread with interest .
Can I ask a question?
My question is obvious. With Photoshop and Lightroom are 8 cores really a waste of money?
Thanks
John C
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=176862\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I asked an Apple rep the same question....he said yes...go for more RAM.
Steve
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FWIW, I just made the switch after being a dedicated PC user since the "new" 8088
Transitioned my laptop to a MacBook Pro (2.6, 4G RAM) in December, then my desktop to one of the new MacPros (3.2x8, 10 G RAM) in January. I ported all of my images over to Mac format drives across a gig-LAN wire and that went perfectly well. Set up of the MacPro was a breeze since the OS lets you copy programs and preferences form another Mac --- I ported everything over from my MBP and this worked perfectly too. I went from dumb box with fresh OS install (on a faster/bigger drive) to a fully-loaded and ready to use Mac Pro in less than an hour total, INCLUDING the fresh instal of the OS. CS3 even activated automatically(!)
Problems were: 1) My favorite printing program, Q-Image is not Mac compatible. I have fusion and a copy of Win XP sitting on my desk, but have not yet installed it... 2) If you are a power user of Quicken on the PC, the transfer interface to Mac ABSOLUTELY SUCKS! It will NOT remember ANY of your scheduled or memorized actions and only ports over the raw data itself. Not only that, the UI is totally different, half the things that the PC version does automatically, like insert a current date, you have to do manually on the Mac version -- so plan on spending a week getting up to speed with QuickenMac...
Other than those two issues, I can honestly say I don't know why I waited so long. Everything else works better and runs better
Oh, and PS: Yes, 8 cores are a waste for CS and LR for NOW, but I suspect that with the introduction of CS4, both will fully utilize all 8...
Cheers,
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Any multithreaded application will make use of multiple cores. Multiple cores also help with other background applications, services, etc. and allow them some CPU time without choking your main app.
You will always have a reducing rate of return on multiple cores unless you're running multiple apps or those apps have a large number of threads running simultaneously (at which time you will see a more steady return from the additional cores).
If you want to listen to MP3s, browse the web, work on Photoshop, have email in the background, and FTP app for loading up to the web, a virus scanner, Lightroom, some widgets, and another utility or plug-in or something running, then the multiple cores will help deal with when all of those want a slice of time at once.
With some operating systems, you can even lock an executable to a particular core and force a spread.
New versions aren't going to benefit from more cores in and off themselves to any great extent (not in the ratio of 8 being twice as good as 4). But as we do more and more simultaneously on our computer of choice, more cores will help to a greater extent.
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FWIW, I just made the switch after being a dedicated PC user since the "new" 8088
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=177263\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
You must be a relative newcomer to computing. My first Intel processor was the 4004 with a paper tape reader for reading in my programs. As I recall, it did seem a bit faster than Vista.
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Again, I want to thank everyone who took the trouble to respond to my question. There were some really useful, thought provoking replies. It’s easy to forget just how incredibly useful this forum is and I think we should thank Michael for keeping it running the way he does.
So, is the grass greener? Well, for me it is (so far) but only by a little. I was due to upgrade my systems and that was a big factor. I bought the new Macbook Pro for location and tethered, and will get a Macpro tower in a couple of weeks.
The learning curve for the Mac way was/is not so bad as I expected. Sure, at times it’s frustrating, but once you find out how, it soon feels just as easy. Re speed: the Macbook pro (2.5, 2gb ram, maybe 4 soon) is about as fast as my PC (dual core, 2gb ram) so that’s ok for location work, but I expect the Macpro to be significantly faster. And now I’m getting the hang of it all, it does feel a slightly better, ie, more logical, way of working. But of course, I could be simply justifying the hassle and expense!
Adobe’s customer service team were most helpful and friendly, and the only cost for switching CS3 and LR was the minimal charge of shipping a couple of new DVDs. I’ll keep the old pc laptop, which still performs respectably, and probably also the desktop for some Windows apps. You get so little when selling it’s usually worth keeping the stuff as backup.
My “bottom line advice”: if your PC gear is working well and doing the job you want it to, it’s probably not worth the expense and learning curve to change. But if you’re ready to upgrade, I’d recommend the Macs.