Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Landscape & Nature Photography => Topic started by: Goodlistener on December 30, 2007, 04:36:01 pm
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This is a hard one... But, I will be on vacation this summer in a truly lovely place. Of course there will be lots of beauty and I will take sunsets, golden evening light on rolling hills, weathered stone buildings, of gnarled old trees silouhetted against the evening sky, cute little animals, children, old people and so on. On these I will follow my heart and my eye where it may lead and its all nice.
But the real question is: How do i avoid cliche's? I think part of the answer is to tell a story and to put in people, with emotions.
Does anybody have some views on this?
PS you are welcome to view my galleries on www.pbase.com/goodlistener
(And I hope you don't see cliche's <grin>.
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You mean like starting threads about avoiding cliches?
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But the real question is: How do i avoid cliche's? I think part of the answer is to tell a story and to put in people, with emotions.
Does anybody have some views on this?
Yes. Follow your heart and your eye, and make photos that appeal to you. If you want to stretch your wings, so to speak, then challenge yourself to see differently, to find a new perspective on something. If you like, make a 'traditional' photograph the way you normally would, then ask yourself, 'How can I make this different?' Could be a different perspective, a different FOV, a different lens or filter... the possibilities are endless.
One of the exercises in 'Photography and the Art of Seeing' is to walk out your front door and shoot an entire roll of film without moving your feet - and make each shot interesting. Another is to shoot an entire roll of film using one object as a subject. The average CF card holds more than 36 images, but you get the idea. Photography may be about 'drawing with light', but it starts with the eye and the imagination of the photographer and no one else will ever see the world as you do.
Mike.
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All generalities are false.
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[Thanks Wolf. I think I can use this. BTW, I ran across the Peterson book you refer to. Need to get it from the public library and digest it.
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But the real question is: How do i avoid cliche's? I think part of the answer is to tell a story and to put in people, with emotions.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=164096\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
1/ Don't worry about what is, or is not, a cliche. Instead do what you enjoy with a specific emphasis on achieving perfection (technically and aesthetically).
and/or
2/ Give yourself some objectives or a theme - global warming, animals of the country, wildflowers, tourism, local people. And use that as a tool to focus on a specific aspect of the area you are visiting.
Most important is not to get too hung up on what others think and make sure that you enjoy yourself. This will encourage you to take more pictures, and probably better ones. Your heart will lead you in the right direction.
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Trouble, of course, is that all the well-intentioned advice is, of itself, cliché.
There is but one solution: don´t ask yourself the question. Then, whatever comes of the photography, at least it will be your own.
Rob C
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Look at a lot of photos.
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Shoot the cliche shots anyway. They'll be staring you in the face, get them out of the way. Then you'll be free to see further, or differently.
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I agree with others who say, don't worry about cliches. You may choose not to show them in a gallery or online, but don't worry and shoot to your heart's content. Who knows, you may be making a photo that you think is cliche and then realize that you have created something new and different.
Never put limits on what you will shoot. There are too many reasons NOT to make photographs. If you let those reasons (excuses) control you, you will not make any photos.
Of course there is the rather trite sentiment that cliches are cliches because there is some truth to them.
I like the comment that someone said above "shoot the cliche shots away."
Besides, someday you too might just want a picture standing in front of the eifel tower.
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I agree with mbridges..... I find I have to shoot the 'straight' or cliche shots to get them out of my mind. Then I can focus on finding something more interesting or creative.
Julian
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As a huge supporter of cliches, I can't seem to get enough of them. And luckily they're everywhere.
I guess the reason is, is that humans are very predictable, know what we like, get comfort from routine, and pretty much enjoy warm fuzzies.
On top of that if you live long enough, there isn't much that's new.
So if you want to rise above the herd, shoot stuff that you hate, is edgy, contains murder and mayhem, kinky sex, or boring celebrities, you can be an artiste, famous, rich, moody, rude, progressively reclusive and ultimately a cliche of yourself.
Then we can all come visit your grave when you self medicate and expire prematurely or end up a broken man in some insane asylum mumbling incoherently about how you really set the world on fire, but were completely misunderstood.
I prefer cliches.
Michael
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Then we can all come visit your grave when you self medicate and expire prematurely or end up a broken man in some insane asylum mumbling incoherently about how you really set the world on fire, but were completely misunderstood.
To most people on earth, that would a step up.
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Yes. Follow your heart and your eye, and make photos that appeal to you. If you want to stretch your wings, so to speak, then challenge yourself to see differently, to find a new perspective on something.
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Try using a lens you seldom use. I was on vacation one year and my 70-200 broke down and my next lens was a 17-35 (I always use two bodies so my 24-105 was in use too). I got some of my best shots on that trip using a lens I don't use that often.
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Try reading this essay:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/done_that.shtml (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/done_that.shtml)
and see if you feel better!
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Personally, I think "avoiding cliches" has become a bit cliche. Some people try to make doing "something different" an end unto itself which can be even more empty than the cliches they're trying to avoid.
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nice thread... I agree with those who opt to embrace the cliche- there's a very good reason that you see a million photos of half-dome etc.... they're uniquely appealing to the eye. If you have a good eye, you'll see more. If you get bored, put the camera down and go for a swim! When you're in a creative mood the creative shots will come to you.
-Mark
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It's only a cliche if you try to make art out of it. If you stand in front of the sunset and wave back at the camera, then its a perfectly good snapshot and can go in the family album, and you'll remember the place/time for the rest of your life...
JC
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Sometimes one has to do the cliches in order to get them out of the way and move on to creating personal images. Creating personal images with a new subject can be challenging, especially when one hasn't developed a personal style yet. How do you approach the subject then? You have to have something to go with, and the cliches offer just that.
On a sidenote it's interesting to note that "cliche" also means "photograph" in French. It's not slang, just a synonym. I'm not sure if it's in the dictionary.
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This is a hard one... But, I will be on vacation this summer in a truly lovely place. Of course there will be lots of beauty and I will take sunsets, golden evening light on rolling hills, weathered stone buildings, of gnarled old trees silouhetted against the evening sky, cute little animals, children, old people and so on. On these I will follow my heart and my eye where it may lead and its all nice.
But the real question is: How do i avoid cliche's? I think part of the answer is to tell a story and to put in people, with emotions.
Does anybody have some views on this?
PS you are welcome to view my galleries on www.pbase.com/goodlistener
(And I hope you don't see cliche's <grin>.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=164096\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I just enjoy the cliches - one of my favourite shots is some reeds with a sunset lit cloud reflected in the water:)
Mike
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Sunsets and flowers and the half-dome are not necessarily cliches.
If you want to create an image of, say, the half-dome that has artistic merit, you could either
a) look at what's been done and what flaws other images have had, and try to eliminate those flaws and perfect the traditional approach to the image or
look at what's been done, and once there figure out what hasn't been done, and try to find a new approach to the image that makes it fresh, rather than cliche.
Of course, there's nothing wrong with a typical flawed cliche photograph for the purpose of memory.
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the problem with viewing lots and lots of other peoples' photo beforehand is that ALL tourism photos tend to seem like clichees after a while. Then you end up with little else to shoot.
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I find the easiest way for the world to open up into amazing vistas, the light to do wonderful things is to go out without your camera!!!!!
In fairness, a lot depends on how much time you have. I like to hang around some place and after about 30 minutes the best ideas and shots often come without "forcing" them too much.
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You may not want to worry about avoiding cliches. Instead, ask yourself why you are making the image in the first place. If you are a professional with the intention of making money, the question shouldn't be "is it cliche?" but "will it sell?". Thomas Kincaide has been repeatedly berated for being "cliche". However, he is also one of the best selling artists of recent years.
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I agree that one should shoot the cliches, along with everything else. Living in Las Vegas, it's hard to see anything that hasn't been (isn't being) shot to death. For my shot of the Paris fountain, I waited until there were no people in the frame.
The subject has been well covered so far, and I agree with most of it, except for looking at a lot of other peoples' shots of the same thing. Maybe it's just me, but I tend to confuse the memory of someone else's' work with my own confirmation of a good shot, and end up shooting a copy. For me, spontaneity is important. A lot of potential shots present themselves, and I pass them over. Part of "vision" is to pause and look at the scene as a still, and shoot for yourself.
I also disagree with shooting things that abhor me. Driving a cab in 'Vegas, I see corpses, crashes, fights and fires and mayhem. What good is that? If a scene from life is not aesthetically pleasing, why would I wish to record it? My studies in light must remain free of those dark views, if I am to remain true to my own photographic aims. In presenting images for others to see, I should hope that it helps to turn their view away from the darkness in their own life view.
Shoot it all, and when you go back to edit later on, ask yourself what compelled you to pause, and notice that scene.
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Shoot anything you want.
Except...
1. Antelope Canyon.
2. The Wave.
3. The place with the black, dried up trees and the red sand.
4. The place with the black sand and the bleached white trees.
I may be missing a few, but those are the biggies.
Since Jan 1, 2008 those places have been declared World Cliche Heritage Sites, it is now a misdemeanor to take new ordinary photographs in any of those locations, and a second degree felony to take HDR photos.
Other than that, go for it.
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Shoot anything you want.
Except...
1. Antelope Canyon.
2. The Wave.
3. The place with the black, dried up trees and the red sand.
4. The place with the black sand and the bleached white trees.
I may be missing a few, but those are the biggies.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=171713\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
5. Any nude woman sitting on what appear to be sharp rocks, next to a stream.
6. A cowboy with a weathered face next to the weathered boards of a shack.
7. Your girlfriend, in any state of undress. (Although these might not *necessarily* be cliches; if you would like to post those, we could make a judgment here.)
8. A really big cloud hanging over phone poles and the tops of nearby houses.
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My advice to you.
Shoot what you enjoy shooting.
If it's good and it's not a cliche, then it soon will be.
Andy
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First of all, THANK YOU everyone. The discussion has been truly useful. I was surprised for the vigorous and intelligent defense of "cliches" but the advice I think is best can be summed up as "If it feels (looks) good - do it".
If the assembled colleagues may kindly look at my online galleries and run up my hit count numbers, leave pithy comments and links to cool stufff, preferably of their own, that would be great. The welcome mat is open at www.pbase.com/goodlistener.
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First of all, THANK YOU everyone. The discussion has been truly useful. I was surprised for the vigorous and intelligent defense of "cliches" but the advice I think is best can be summed up as "If it feels (looks) good - do it".
If the assembled colleagues may kindly look at my online galleries and run up my hit count numbers, leave pithy comments and links to cool stufff, preferably of their own, that would be great. The welcome mat is open at www.pbase.com/goodlistener.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=174725\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thanks for the invitation to visit, but does the site meet John Camp´s item no. 7?
Ciao - Rob C