Luminous Landscape Forum

Site & Board Matters => About This Site => Topic started by: azmike on December 10, 2007, 08:41:04 pm

Title: Mont-St-Michel Shadow
Post by: azmike on December 10, 2007, 08:41:04 pm
Just a wonderful image of one of France's most touristic attractions.

Think like America's Grand Canyon....it's been shot front, back, at dawn, at sunset, and with the moon......but I have never seen a shadow!

And not one of you LL readers commented.

We should be asking Michael to share with us his vision.....how it comes to him to look at this abbey in a tidal flat as a shadow.....rather than asking him endlessly and (recently) endlessly about the camera he used or might pass a glance at.

A decade from now his shared wisdom of vision will benefit us all, while the discussion about gear is obsolete in the near term. Everybody has just so much time, we would be better off if we privileged the photography.

Does anyone agree with me?

Mike Coffey
Title: Mont-St-Michel Shadow
Post by: Tim Gray on December 10, 2007, 09:23:12 pm
well, it's certainly better than this shot

http://www.wallpaper4computer.com/gal/stmi...chel-78db26.jpg (http://www.wallpaper4computer.com/gal/stmichelbay/thumbb/mt-st-michel-78db26.jpg)

I think it's an abstract where the emotional impact (which you obviously experience) is related to the context that the viewer is able to provide.  If I had a clue what Mont_St_Michel was, I might have reacted differently.  Particularly since this image translates to the web less well than, for example, the previous Madagascar abstract.

So I guess that's a no from me.  
Title: Mont-St-Michel Shadow
Post by: Rob C on December 11, 2007, 12:35:14 pm
I´m sure Alain will know better than I, but I believe that the mount is getting less and less isolated as the years move on - in other words, I´ve heard the area is silting up and starting to defeat the tides. Makes a change - it´s usually the other way around: the sea eats up the land. Perhaps it´s also a show of the devine balance in nature - she gives with the one and takes with the other.

This might make us ponder what she might have in store for us, what with us causing so much wilful damge and all...

Few pics will match the mad Madagascan(?) dancers!

Rob C
Title: Mont-St-Michel Shadow
Post by: CatOne on December 11, 2007, 12:48:16 pm
Quote
well, it's certainly better than this shot

http://www.wallpaper4computer.com/gal/stmi...chel-78db26.jpg (http://www.wallpaper4computer.com/gal/stmichelbay/thumbb/mt-st-michel-78db26.jpg)

I think it's an abstract where the emotional impact (which you obviously experience) is related to the context that the viewer is able to provide.  If I had a clue what Mont_St_Michel was, I might have reacted differently.  Particularly since this image translates to the web less well than, for example, the previous Madagascar abstract.

So I guess that's a no from me. 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=159787\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Tim, you made the direct linking gods very angry  
Title: Mont-St-Michel Shadow
Post by: francois on December 11, 2007, 01:03:35 pm
Quote
I´m sure Alain will know better than I, but I believe that the mount is getting less and less isolated as the years move on - in other words, I´ve heard the area is silting up and starting to defeat the tides. Makes a change - it´s usually the other way around: the sea eats up the land. Perhaps it´s also a show of the devine balance in nature - she gives with the one and takes with the other.

This might make us ponder what she might have in store for us, what with us causing so much wilful damge and all...

Few pics will match the mad Madagascan(?) dancers!

Rob C
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=159884\")
Actually, they are about to start some major work to free Mont St-Michel from the silt. You can read more [a href=\"http://www.projetmontsaintmichel.fr/en/]here[/url].
Title: Mont-St-Michel Shadow
Post by: Martin Ocando on December 11, 2007, 03:41:53 pm
I do. I think is a breathtaking image. I wonder what came to his mind when he visualized this image in his mind. I just hope someday I will have a similar level of abstraction and inner eye.

Quote
A decade from now his shared wisdom of vision will benefit us all, while the discussion about gear is obsolete in the near term. Everybody has just so much time, we would be better off if we privileged the photography.

Does anyone agree with me?

Mike Coffey
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=159783\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: Mont-St-Michel Shadow
Post by: michael on December 11, 2007, 04:59:38 pm
Thanks to those of you with the kind words.

All I can add is that when I am in an over-photographed place what I try and do is search for the unphotograph. In other words, something that resonates but isn't obvious.

This isn't all that conscious. I was just wandering around like any other tourist with a camera, but seeing the shadow clicked with me, and I just waited for a figure to complete the composition. I guessed that with the low angle of the sun someone walking on the sand would step into the shadow to shield their eyes so that they could see the building against the glare, and when they did I was ready.

Michael
Title: Mont-St-Michel Shadow
Post by: Martin Ocando on December 12, 2007, 02:05:08 am
Quote
I guessed that with the low angle of the sun someone walking on the sand would step into the shadow to shield their eyes so that they could see the building against the glare, and when they did I was ready.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=159936\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Jeez, That is fast thinking, Michael. Definitively, one have to have our eyes open and our minds clear when roaming around familiar places for not so obvious situations.
Title: Mont-St-Michel Shadow
Post by: Ralph Eisenberg on December 12, 2007, 08:35:32 am
Add me to the list of those who greatly appreciate this image, in its own right, irrespective of where it was taken. I find it striking.
Title: Mont-St-Michel Shadow
Post by: Rob C on December 12, 2007, 10:49:47 am
Quote
Actually, they are about to start some major work to free Mont St-Michel from the silt. You can read more here (http://www.projetmontsaintmichel.fr/en/).
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=159890\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Francois

Thank´s for the link - interesting to read and goes to show that this site is a gateway to a lot more information than just photography.

Merci - Rob C
Title: Mont-St-Michel Shadow
Post by: Rob C on December 12, 2007, 10:56:25 am
Not to detract from the picture in the least, nor from Michael for taking it, but I do have to say that I find the amazement at the taking of the picture amazing!

Surely, in the name of everything you hold holy, isn´t that just what photography is, and has always been, all about? In the studio or out of it, you keep your bleedin´eyes open and shoot when it happens, whatever it  might be. That´s not skill, that´s just being a photographer!

Rob C
Title: Mont-St-Michel Shadow
Post by: Morris Taub on December 12, 2007, 10:59:13 am
Not to take anything away from Michael's image, it's just great...here's something similar by Michael Kenna...1994

http://www.michaelkenna.net/html/montstmichel/16.html (http://www.michaelkenna.net/html/montstmichel/16.html)

Here's the series...I wonder if Michael Reichmann will share more of his visit?...

http://www.michaelkenna.net/html/montstmichel/index.html (http://www.michaelkenna.net/html/montstmichel/index.html)


Just as an aside...there's this series of the Ratcliffe Power Station that is a fav of mine...MK is good...

http://www.michaelkenna.net/html/rcliff03/index.html (http://www.michaelkenna.net/html/rcliff03/index.html)

kind regards

M
Title: Mont-St-Michel Shadow
Post by: Kirk Gittings on December 12, 2007, 12:39:46 pm
Nice image Michael, but in reference to the first poster, shooting the shadow is not new. William Clift did one of his classic images of that shadow.
Title: Mont-St-Michel Shadow
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on December 12, 2007, 12:39:49 pm
Quote
Tim, you made the direct linking gods very angry 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=159887\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
And the screen that came up didn't look much like Mont_St_Michel at all.  
Title: Mont-St-Michel Shadow
Post by: Martin Ocando on December 12, 2007, 01:04:29 pm
Quote
Nice image Michael, but in reference to the first poster, shooting the shadow is not new. William Clift did one of his classic images of that shadow.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=160126\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Might be not new, but is the first time I see it, and I'm sure will happen the same to many people, when someone enters his gallery and sees the print hanging on the wall. Is the first impression that counts  

Besides, the other images I've seen doesn't include a person, which in this case I think is the key to the success of the image. It adds a dimension and a sense of size that the other images doesn't have. It may well be a sand castle projecting the shadow.
Title: Mont-St-Michel Shadow
Post by: Kirk Gittings on December 12, 2007, 03:39:24 pm
Quote
Might be not new, but is the first time I see it, and I'm sure will happen the same to many people, when someone enters his gallery and sees the print hanging on the wall. Is the first impression that counts 

Besides, the other images I've seen doesn't include a person, which in this case I think is the key to the success of the image. It adds a dimension and a sense of size that the other images doesn't have. It may well be a sand castle projecting the shadow.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=160137\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes, but the original poster was talking about how unique it was to shoot the shadow. It simply isn't. Its a simple straight forward point, that does not diminish the strength of Michael's image.
Title: Mont-St-Michel Shadow
Post by: Martin Ocando on December 12, 2007, 05:32:48 pm
Quote
Yes, but the original poster was talking about how unique it was to shoot the shadow. It simply isn't. Its a simple straight forward point, that does not diminish the strength of Michael's image.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=160179\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Oops, my mistake. You are right  
Title: Mont-St-Michel Shadow
Post by: Rob C on December 13, 2007, 05:35:42 am
Quote
Not to take anything away from Michael's image, it's just great...here's something similar by Michael Kenna...1994

http://www.michaelkenna.net/html/montstmichel/16.html (http://www.michaelkenna.net/html/montstmichel/16.html)

Here's the series...I wonder if Michael Reichmann will share more of his visit?...

http://www.michaelkenna.net/html/montstmichel/index.html (http://www.michaelkenna.net/html/montstmichel/index.html)
Just as an aside...there's this series of the Ratcliffe Power Station that is a fav of mine...MK is good...

http://www.michaelkenna.net/html/rcliff03/index.html (http://www.michaelkenna.net/html/rcliff03/index.html)

kind regards

Thanks for the link - I´ve not looked at the Kenna site for quite a while; it was certainly time to catch up once more!

Thanks again - Rob C

M
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=160102\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: Mont-St-Michel Shadow
Post by: Morris Taub on December 13, 2007, 12:07:08 pm
Quote
Thanks for the link - I´ve not looked at the Kenna site for quite a while; it was certainly time to catch up once more!

Thanks again - Rob C

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=160314\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Hi Rob...I just love his work...the subtle gradations, the minimalist compositions for the most part...i go back to photographers like this for the sense of calm...some of Michael Reichmann's landscapes do that for me as well...

kind regards

M

Ps...followed that discussion on Briot's 'style'...the creative vs. business end...the life of the artist can be hard...a good agent can help...but you were right on the money, at least I felt you were expressing things i myself felt but it does go away from talking about photography...more psychological life or philosophical life of a person...very interesting stuff...
Title: Mont-St-Michel Shadow
Post by: Rob C on December 14, 2007, 01:53:42 pm
Quote
Hi Rob...I just love his work...the subtle gradations, the minimalist compositions for the most part...i go back to photographers like this for the sense of calm...some of Michael Reichmann's landscapes do that for me as well...

kind regards

M

Ps...followed that discussion on Briot's 'style'...the creative vs. business end...the life of the artist can be hard...a good agent can help...but you were right on the money, at least I felt you were expressing things i myself felt but it does go away from talking about photography...more psychological life or philosophical life of a person...very interesting stuff...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=160383\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

In order to escape punishment for temporary off-roading, let me get back to photographic observation. Looking again at the MK site (which is downloading VERY slowly today), I realise more than ever that he has absolutely no fear of dark, empty shadows. In some funny way, that might well be because (I believe!) he is still using film and has not had his head filled with the new-speak of photography.

Since dipping my reluctant toes into the new iteration of the medium, though only in very shallow waters, I admit, I have discovered a fear of the dark. This is not something that hits me in the eye through my prints off the HP B9180, it is something that has crept into my subconscious from reading/trying to learn from internet sites such as this one - well, perhaps only this one; further advice comes from private interchanges with others who have more experience in the medium than I.  But however it has come, the damn thing is in my head to the extent that I  now worry about making any dark shadowy areas dark shadowy prints!

Perhaps this is an example of the dangers of not working alone - totally alone, in the sense of not listening to any gurus!

Ciao - Rob C
Title: Mont-St-Michel Shadow
Post by: sojournerphoto on December 14, 2007, 03:41:00 pm
Quote
In order to escape punishment for temporary off-roading, let me get back to photographic observation. Looking again at the MK site (which is downloading VERY slowly today), I realise more than ever that he has absolutely no fear of dark, empty shadows. In some funny way, that might well be because (I believe!) he is still using film and has not had his head filled with the new-speak of photography.

Since dipping my reluctant toes into the new iteration of the medium, though only in very shallow waters, I admit, I have discovered a fear of the dark. This is not something that hits me in the eye through my prints off the HP B9180, it is something that has crept into my subconscious from reading/trying to learn from internet sites such as this one - well, perhaps only this one; further advice comes from private interchanges with others who have more experience in the medium than I.  But however it has come, the damn thing is in my head to the extent that I  now worry about making any dark shadowy areas dark shadowy prints!

Perhaps this is an example of the dangers of not working alone - totally alone, in the sense of not listening to any gurus!

Ciao - Rob C
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=160681\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Oh yes, the danger of the herd:) I looked through Bare Witness, a retrospective of the work of Gordon Park today. Nothing is sharp and there is little 'detail' but the photos are powerful, telling their own stories. The received wisdom will make everything the same if we can't hold on to our own vision of what we love.

Actually, another thought springs to mind that whilst there is an argument that if you capture everything you have the choice to lose the detail and let the shadows sink into blackness, for example, I wonder if it's so much harder to do when the information is there?

Mike
Title: Mont-St-Michel Shadow
Post by: Rob C on December 16, 2007, 11:01:39 am
Quote
Oh yes, the danger of the herd:) I looked through Bare Witness, a retrospective of the work of Gordon Park today. Nothing is sharp and there is little 'detail' but the photos are powerful, telling their own stories. The received wisdom will make everything the same if we can't hold on to our own vision of what we love.

Actually, another thought springs to mind that whilst there is an argument that if you capture everything you have the choice to lose the detail and let the shadows sink into blackness, for example, I wonder if it's so much harder to do when the information is there?

Mike
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=160709\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Mike

I don´t think that it is hard to lose detail in shadow if you want to - digitally printing, of course - because there is so much control, so many steps available... I think the problems are more in the mind and the uncertainly felt about capturing digitally with the intention of losing shadow detail.

Partly, I supose, it´s the thought that a viewer might feel you´d made an error somewhere along the line if you have strong shadows. But then, as I mentioned before, perhaps that idea, if you share it, might come from too many forums laying down too many rules! For my part, I´ve given up on most of the others - can´t think of a single open, alternative photographic (or other) chat place to which I turn - my inspiration now comes from professional photographers´ agents sites, where they show the best of their best, and some is pretty good too!

Keep on clickin´- Rob C
Title: Mont-St-Michel Shadow
Post by: sojournerphoto on December 16, 2007, 02:19:29 pm
Quote
Mike

I don´t think that it is hard to lose detail in shadow if you want to - digitally printing, of course - because there is so much control, so many steps available... I think the problems are more in the mind and the uncertainly felt about capturing digitally with the intention of losing shadow detail.

Partly, I supose, it´s the thought that a viewer might feel you´d made an error somewhere along the line if you have strong shadows. But then, as I mentioned before, perhaps that idea, if you share it, might come from too many forums laying down too many rules! For my part, I´ve given up on most of the others - can´t think of a single open, alternative photographic (or other) chat place to which I turn - my inspiration now comes from professional photographers´ agents sites, where they show the best of their best, and some is pretty good too!

Keep on clickin´- Rob C
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=161019\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Rob,

My thought exactly - the hard part is in the mind. Probably fortunately, I don't frequent any other photographic forums. Similarly, I gave up on my local photographich club as after sitting through the end of year competition results (after only a few weeks attendance) I found that I couldn't bear to submit myself to the shallow views of the 'expert' judges.

For inspiration I love to see good work that shows me a different way of seeing, but at the end of the day I can only photograph the things I love, and if other people don't like what I do I can't really change it. I don't need it to eat, so I'm pretty free to make a  few mistakes:)

Mike
Title: Mont-St-Michel Shadow
Post by: Rob C on December 16, 2007, 03:49:14 pm
Quote
Rob,

My thought exactly - the hard part is in the mind. Probably fortunately, I don't frequent any other photographic forums. Similarly, I gave up on my local photographich club as after sitting through the end of year competition results (after only a few weeks attendance) I found that I couldn't bear to submit myself to the shallow views of the 'expert' judges.

For inspiration I love to see good work that shows me a different way of seeing, but at the end of the day I can only photograph the things I love, and if other people don't like what I do I can't really change it. I don't need it to eat, so I'm pretty free to make a  few mistakes:)

Mike
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=161045\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hey - keep making the mistakes! As you say, if you don´t need it to eat, then you have it on the best possible terms.

I wish, sometimes, that it was a realistic hope to get to that happy position having once spent a career doing it for the eating purpose, but it seems that if you have been there, then it can´t ever be the same for you again, which is somewhat sad, I think. Perhaps other photographers have been able to retire from the fight and still retain the original enthusiasm, but I have a sneaky feeling that more often than not we stay tuned because there´s not a lot else left out there that interests us much.

Ciao - Rob C
Title: Mont-St-Michel Shadow
Post by: Ken Tanaka on December 17, 2007, 11:12:20 am
This really is a splendid image, Michael.  An excellent solution to the over-photographed scene.  Bravo!

Quote
Nice image Michael, but in reference to the first poster, shooting the shadow is not new. William Clift did one of his classic images of that shadow.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=160126\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Indeed he does, Kirk.  In fact, William Clift has been visiting and photographing this site almost annually for (I believe) 20+ years with a variety of camera formats.  Nothing beats the kind of insight that such familiarity can produce, particularly when it's demonstrated in photographs.  

Not long ago I had the good fortune to meet William and spend an evening looking at some of his terrific work.  He's a rather quiet modest fellow with a sharp sense of humor that comes through on some of his work.  If you get a chance, take a look at some of his SX70 work.  (Yes, that cheap little Polaroid instant camera.)  It's jaw-dropping.
Title: Mont-St-Michel Shadow
Post by: Kirk Gittings on December 17, 2007, 12:17:44 pm
Ken,

Oddly, even though I live in the same state and have been in a couple of group shows together a while back (I think he still lives in New Mexico?) we have never met. But he is one of my all time favorite photographers. He just had a show I saw in Chicago last summer at the Art Institute, all vintage images. I did not know that he even did Sx-70 work!
Title: Mont-St-Michel Shadow
Post by: Ken Tanaka on December 17, 2007, 01:04:40 pm
Quote
Ken,

Oddly, even though I live in the same state and have been in a couple of group shows together a while back (I think he still lives in New Mexico?) we have never met. But he is one of my all time favorite photographers. He just had a show I saw in Chicago last summer at the Art Institute, all vintage images. I did not know that he even did Sx-70 work!
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=161256\")

Kirk,
I think that, rather like most U.S. money managers eventually draining to Florida or the South of France, many photographers eventually drain to New Mexico!      William Clift does, indeed, live in Santa Fe, New Mexico so you should bump into him eventually.  (BTW, here is his Mont Saint Michel shadow image, or at least the one I've seen: [a href=\"http://www.williamclift.com/image3.htm]http://www.williamclift.com/image3.htm[/url] .  It's a large-format negative.)

William was just in the final stages of printing a monograph of his SX-70 work.  He brought some of the proof prints during his visit.  They were printed expertly using an Epson K3 on Hahnemuhle 310 gsm Photo Rag.  These were small, precious images, mostly casual portraits, that just had a look that made you want to just keep looking.  I believe his plan was to only print perhaps 100 copies of the monograph, most of which he said were already spoken for.  But he was holding some in reserve.  If you every meet him it's worth asking about.
Title: Mont-St-Michel Shadow
Post by: bertiep on December 19, 2007, 09:14:25 am
Quote
I´m sure Alain will know better than I, but I believe that the mount is getting less and less isolated as the years move on - in other words, I´ve heard the area is silting up and starting to defeat the tides. Makes a change - it´s usually the other way around: the sea eats up the land. Perhaps it´s also a show of the devine balance in nature - she gives with the one and takes with the other.

This might make us ponder what she might have in store for us, what with us causing so much wilful damge and all...

Few pics will match the mad Madagascan(?) dancers!

Rob C
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=159884\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I visited in September of this year and there is a project in process to divert a nearby river in order to scourge the silt away and reinstate the original isolation.  

Bob P