Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Digital Image Processing => Topic started by: Craig Murphy on November 18, 2007, 12:32:03 pm
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Two models that are supposed to display the colors in aRGB. The LaCie 526 and the Eizo ColorEdge CG221. The Lacie is $2100 w/ the blue eye colorimeter and the Eizo is $5000. Could someone explain to me if they see anything here that would justify a $3000 difference?
The major specs that I see are:
Lacie 526
Panel - H-ISP A-TW POL
Viewing Angle- 178 deg
Contrast- 800:1
Response time- 16ms
Pixel pitch- 287
Max Res- 1920x1200
Luminance- 400 cd/m2
Warranty - 3yrs
Eizo CCg221
Panel - TFT
View Angle - 170deg
Contrast - 400:1
Response Time - 30ms
Pixel Pitch - .249
Max Res - 1920x1200
Luminance - Eizo refers to Brightness of 200cd max and recommends 100cd
Warranty - 5 yrs
Yes the Eizo has other things like the auto brightness function, display mode functions but when you are sitting down and viewing the monitor I'm having a hard time seeing why I would spend $3000 more on one over the other. Can someone enlighten me? Is there anything in the specs that really increased the value of the Eizo over the LaCie by that much?
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Based on my experiences and more importantly, the results of thorough scientific testing by Karl Lang and his presentation at PPE on the subject, the unit to get is the NEC 2690 driven with SpectraView II software. Yes, 93% of Adobe RGB isn't the entire enchilada but at this price point and performance, its a real winner.
As for your question about price, well we are waiting on Eizo to get off the mat and send Karl units for testing so we can find out if this big, big price differences is justified or not. For whatever reason, they (Eizo) despite requests from Karl and Chris Murphy to have units sent for the PPE seminar and further testing were not fulfilled. We'd all benefit if some pressure were put on them to have an outside, independent test done on their products.
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If you're interested in the NEC 2690 check provantage.com. They have a non-advertised special. I just bought one from them. Setting it up soon!
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Thanks for the info. It was just such a tremendous price difference I had to ask the question. Will check out the NEC.
And thanks Andrew for sending the profile for the new canvas I am using back to me so quickly.
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Based on my experiences and more importantly, the results of thorough scientific testing by Karl Lang and his presentation at PPE on the subject, the unit to get is the NEC 2690 driven with SpectraView II software.
I assume the NEC 2190UXi and 2490UXi have the same image quality as the NEC 2690. Is this correct?
I like to work with two monitors, one 21 inch for just the image and a second monitor just for the image editor pallets. Hence my interest in the NEC 2190.
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I assume the NEC 2190UXi and 2490UXi have the same image quality as the NEC 2690. Is this correct?
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Should be. I don't know much about the 2190, I don't recall Karl testing it. The 2490 and 2190 are sRGB displays, his report on the 2490 was actually a tad better than the 2690, mostly due to the use of a colorimeter on a wide gamut unit where the filter set expects a more sRGB response. The 2690 is wide gamut. Its a larger unit too (26 inches versus 24). I expect the 2190 is just a bit smaller and should preform as well as the 2490 cost a bit less. But the key to getting the great results Karl reported were using the NEC SpectraView II software to drive it.
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But the key to getting the great results Karl reported were using the NEC SpectraView II software to drive it.
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Andrew, what settings do you use in the Spectraview II software for White Point, Intensity and Gamma?
Thanks.
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I thought the Lacie was a rebadge NEC ? and I doubt it is 100%aRGB where the EIZO IS 100%+ aRGB, any we do pay for those last percentages :-)
I do agree with Andrew, that the NEC is a good compromise 2690, that is! However, NEC also makes a 100% aRGB, Reference 21, there might be a newer one, again in the same price range as the EIZO.
Henrik
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has Karl Lang have a website so I can see what type of scientific test he does?
Thanks
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Andrew, what settings do you use in the Spectraview II software for White Point, Intensity and Gamma?
Thanks.
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150cd/m2, custom white using an EyeOne Pro Spectrophotometer (rest of calibration using a EyeOne Display), gamma 2.2.
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has Karl Lang have a website so I can see what type of scientific test he does?
Thanks
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Not up yet. It will be at lumita.com/
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150cd/m2, custom white using an EyeOne Pro Spectrophotometer (rest of calibration using a EyeOne Display), gamma 2.2.
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Thanks, Andrew. I have been using 120cd/m2 with my 2690. I will try 150cd/m2; how did you settle on that level?
Best.
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Thanks, Andrew. I have been using 120cd/m2 with my 2690. I will try 150cd/m2; how did you settle on that level?
Best.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154193\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
It was actually recommended to me by NEC. 120 (which is what I'd usually work towards) is at the very lowest end of the scale this unit, at least new can hit, so they suggested a bit higher so there's room to go lower if necessary in the calibration.
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So does anybody know what's the difference is with the Spectraview II and the software we get in Europe? I was at a photo trade show here in Sweden yesterday and the guy at NEC didn't know what the difference was. He asked another guy and he claimed that the calibration software we get in Europe was easier to use... So do you think I can use the software that is included or should I buy the US software?
Another question I have is about how you say you get to 150 cd/m2, you use a EyeOne Pro Spectrophotometer, would my EyeOne Photo work for that? Why do you use a different EyeOne for the rest of the calibration?
Håkan
It was actually recommended to me by NEC. 120 (which is what I'd usually work towards) is at the very lowest end of the scale this unit, at least new can hit, so they suggested a bit higher so there's room to go lower if necessary in the calibration.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154194\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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So does anybody know what's the difference is with the Spectraview II and the software we get in Europe?
The stuff in Europe is totally different, basically BasiCColor, not the stuff we're referring to, developed by NEC.
Another question I have is about how you say you get to 150 cd/m2, you use a EyeOne Pro Spectrophotometer, would my EyeOne Photo work for that? Why do you use a different EyeOne for the rest of the calibration?
You can use an EyeOne Pro Spectrophotometer or an EyeOne Display. I'm using both on the wide gamut (the Spectrophotometer just to make a custom target for white point, then the Colorimeter for all subsequent calibration and profiling). I don't think you can do this with the European stuff, not sure. I haven't looked at BasICColor in awhile. And I don't now if its identical to the OEM version you chaps have.
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So I should probably buy the US software online to get the best results? Or it might not matter?
The stuff in Europe is totally different, basically BasiCColor, not the stuff we're referring to, developed by NEC.
You can use an EyeOne Pro Spectrophotometer or an EyeOne Display. I'm using both on the wide gamut (the Spectrophotometer just to make a custom target for white point, then the Colorimeter for all subsequent calibration and profiling). I don't think you can do this with the European stuff, not sure. I haven't looked at BasICColor in awhile. And I don't now if its identical to the OEM version you chaps have.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154230\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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My EyeOne Photo is a Spectrophotometer? Or am I'm wrong?
The stuff in Europe is totally different, basically BasiCColor, not the stuff we're referring to, developed by NEC.
You can use an EyeOne Pro Spectrophotometer or an EyeOne Display. I'm using both on the wide gamut (the Spectrophotometer just to make a custom target for white point, then the Colorimeter for all subsequent calibration and profiling). I don't think you can do this with the European stuff, not sure. I haven't looked at BasICColor in awhile. And I don't now if its identical to the OEM version you chaps have.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154230\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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So I should probably buy the US software online to get the best results? Or it might not matter?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154231\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I'd say, if you can get the NEC software (SpectraView II), get that!
There are several EyeOne products. EyeOne Pro IS a Spectrophotometer. EyeOne Display is a Colorimeter. IF you can build printer profiles, you have a Spectrophotometer.
A colorimeter is a better device for display calibration and profiling due to its ability to handle very dark emissive measurements. The problem is, they have filter sets that are (ideally) mated for a display type or at the very least, a general assumption of the display. Most are expecting sRGB. So, with a wide gamut display, you'll get improved white point measurements with a Spectrophotometer, you'll get less than ideal dark measurements. The NEC software allows (via a clever trick) to use both. Note that Karl Lang's testing for PPE, using a Colorimeter with filters expecting sRGB, on a wide gamut (2690), the actual measurements were off about 500K which isn't unacceptable but, its off.
If you look at the really nice NEC very wide gamut LED device, NEC did the best thing, they OEM'ed a colorimeter from X-Rite with special filters for their device.
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I am a little confused here. When you buy the 2690 with SpectraView II it comes with its own special colorimeter that solves the problem of a colorimeter expecting to read an sRGB monitor. Correct?
Never mind. I read now that it "comes bundled with color calibration software and a co-branded NEC/Gretag Macbeth colorimeter".
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I am a little confused here. When you buy the 2690 with SpectraView II it comes with its own special colorimeter that solves the problem of a colorimeter expecting to read an sRGB monitor. Correct?
Never mind. I read now that it "comes bundled with color calibration software and a co-branded NEC/Gretag Macbeth colorimeter".
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The only special mated colorimeter I know of is when NEC sells the software with their LED Wide Gamut unit. The other's are EyeOne Display-2's.
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So with only the availability of the colorimeter and not a Spectrophotometer what is the best path with the 2690 to get a proper white point? I just ordered a 2690 w/Spectraview and of course want to profile it as accurately as possible.
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So with only the availability of the colorimeter and not a Spectrophotometer what is the best path with the 2690 to get a proper white point? I just ordered a 2690 w/Spectraview and of course want to profile it as accurately as possible.
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Use a good colorimeter. It will be fine. As I said, Karl, with a $20K spectroradiometer found the white point off 500K using an EyeOne Display-2. I didn't find months of using the display this way an issue at all. When I was told HOW to use both instruments, well, you know a color geek can't help himself so I did it. And as Colorimeters improve in expecting more than sRGB behavior, this will all be a moot point
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OK. Thanks for the reply. I can't wait to get this thing. Provantage is drop shipping these right from NEC. Hope it doesn't take too long. 26". Jeez. It's gonna feel like I'm at the movies.
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... When I was told HOW to use both instruments, ...
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Andrew,
I'm looking into the SpectraView 2690 as a replacement for my aging Artisan and all this sounds very interesting.
Can you tell us a bit more on how to use both instruments?
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Andrew,
I'm looking into the SpectraView 2690 as a replacement for my aging Artisan and all this sounds very interesting.
Can you tell us a bit more on how to use both instruments?
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Send me an email off list, I'll send you the recipe.
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Send me an email off list, I'll send you the recipe.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154946\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Got it. Thanks Andrew.
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Hi Murphy,
i'm using CG220 and CG221,both are good monitor,i don't have any experience on lacie montior, so i can't say it's not good.
but i can told you,CG22X both are good monitor,"cal mode" give me a very good grey scale without any banding and very good shadow(which basiccolor and CED can't give me),emu mode help me alot when using photoshop in aRGB mode.
one more,colornavigaotr can help you save a lot of time,check out the video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT34xF0G18I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT34xF0G18I)
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Two models that are supposed to display the colors in aRGB. The LaCie 526 and the Eizo ColorEdge CG221. The Lacie is $2100 w/ the blue eye colorimeter and the Eizo is $5000. Could someone explain to me if they see anything here that would justify a $3000 difference?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=153855\")
You may also want to take a look at the Samsung LED BLU range. Covers aRGB and, whilst not up to NEC/ Eizo quality, seems capable once calibrated (included in package). NB This use LED backlight, not CFL, and seems good value for money.
The XL20 - 20" 4:3 (1600x1200) is already available around Euro 1,300
The XL24 - 24" 16:10 (1920X1200) is available Dec 2007 for Euro 1,999
The XL30 - 30" 16:10 (2560X1600) is available Jan 2008 for Euro 4,299
(The last two prices should be lower by the time it hits the web stores)
Details are on the Samsung German website (though not elsewhere):
[a href=\"http://monitor.samsung.de/article.asp?artid=2AA18C62-B937-49ED-8741-E3C3369D35F3]Samsung DE Website[/url]
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Well. I got the 2690 today. Yeah. Can't believe how quick it got here. Its taking a little getting use to after looking at my 19" Lacie CRT for so long.
Andrew. Since you have one of these. I did my first calibration with Spectraview and the display calibrator that comes with it by choosing Broadcast video as the target setting. Right choice? This was the only one with D65 and gamma at 2.2. I did a second one after making a new target with the intensity set down to 150/cd. First calibration was pretty bright. It was looking to maximize. Up around 350 cd if I remember correctly.
Are you checking off 'Check Average Lowlight measurments' in the Preferences dialog? At 'Calibration Priority' in the same dialog box any preference for choosing Maximize Contrast Ratio or Best greyscale color tracking?
Also, since setting up the monitor Adobe Bridge CS3 (latest update) keeps crashing on me. Anyone ever had that happen with a monitor change? I am on Windows. Thanks for any info!
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Well. I got the 2690 today. Yeah. Can't believe how quick it got here. Its taking a little getting use to after looking at my 19" Lacie CRT for so long.
Andrew. Since you have one of these. I did my first calibration with Spectraview and the display calibrator that comes with it by choosing Broadcast video as the target setting. Right choice?
I'm using a custom target. Basically, I did this trick so I can measure white using the Spectrophotometer, apply that white point as a custom option. From there, my gamma is 2.2, my luminance is 150cd/m2. Contrast is Monitor Default.
In Preference's Average Low Light on. Max Contrast. These were recommended to me by NEC.
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Thanks for all the info Andrew.