Luminous Landscape Forum

Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Digital Image Processing => Topic started by: bobrobert on November 10, 2007, 05:14:55 am

Title: Blend if
Post by: bobrobert on November 10, 2007, 05:14:55 am
Regarding the blend if sliders the information that I have read in the past is to move the end points on the top slider only to target the midtones Bruce Fraser in his book on sharpening he recommends moving the end points on both sliders Is this correct or are both methods Ok
Title: Blend if
Post by: Tim Gray on November 10, 2007, 07:38:06 am
For my 2 cents - moving the sliders isn't about targeting the mid tones, it's about minimizing the clipping that can occur as the edge contrast is being increased.  Since this affects both light and dark I move both sliders - using Alt to split each one and create a transition.
Title: Blend if
Post by: digitaldog on November 10, 2007, 10:21:30 am
You're both right depending on what you expect of the Blend If controls. Yes, using them on either end, with the option split for feather, targets the layer effect into the midtones (or where ever you decide NOT to apply the layer effect by virtue of their position. So you could think of this as targeting the midtones OR protecting either side of the tone curve.
Title: Blend if
Post by: Chris_T on November 11, 2007, 09:34:15 am
How best to apply Blend If depends on the layer it is applied to, and there can be lots of variations. For example, if Blend If is applied to an adjustment layer with a layer mask (i.e. selection) already, how you adjust the sliders can be dramatically different. Also, in addition to Gray, Blend If can be applied to a single rgb channel. The possibility is endless, and there is no single "best" way.

Unfortunately, this great feature is seldom addressed well in most of the PS books. Hint for those looking for a good PS book: flip through the chapters and index and see how many pages are dedicated to Blend If.
Title: Blend if
Post by: bjanes on November 11, 2007, 10:08:35 am
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Regarding the blend if sliders the information that I have read in the past is to move the end points on the top slider only to target the midtones Bruce Fraser in his book on sharpening he recommends moving the end points on both sliders Is this correct or are both methods Ok
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=151687\")

The blend if sliders are a bit complicated and I would suggest looking at this
[a href=\"http://retouchpro.com/tutorials/?m=show&id=123]Blend if tutorial[/url] and working through the examples to gain a better understanding of the process.

Bill
Title: Blend if
Post by: Mark D Segal on November 11, 2007, 06:12:03 pm
Katrin Eismann has a full six page section on "Blend If", done with her usual clarity and thoroughness, in "Photoshop Masking and Compositing".
Title: Blend if
Post by: Chris_T on November 13, 2007, 09:08:06 am
Eismann is one of the exceptions who wrote about Blend If. But she only wrote about the two sliders, and did not address the other options such as working with single channels, etc. She also skipped it in her more popular first book. Another book that spends some ink on the topic is the Artistry book by Barry Haynes.

None of the 500+ page books by Kelby, Evening, and the Geniuses would even mention it.
                                                                                                 
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Katrin Eismann has a full six page section on "Blend If", done with her usual clarity and thoroughness, in "Photoshop Masking and Compositing".
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=152022\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: Blend if
Post by: digitaldog on November 13, 2007, 09:23:11 am
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None of the 500+ page books by Kelby, Evening, and the Geniuses would even mention it.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=152402\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Geniuses? if you're referring to Pixel Geniuses, you're incorrect. Bruce Fraser mentioned it in great detail in his sharpening book as well as Real World Photoshop. I don't (it has nothing to do with color management). Jeff's book is about Camera Raw (and not out yet) so I doubt you'll see it mentioned, Seth doesn't have a book.
Title: Blend if
Post by: Mark D Segal on November 13, 2007, 09:26:37 am
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Eismann is one of the exceptions who wrote about Blend If. But she only wrote about the two sliders, and did not address the other options such as working with single channels, etc. She also skipped it in her more popular first book. Another book that spends some ink on the topic is the Artistry book by Barry Haynes.

None of the 500+ page books by Kelby, Evening, and the Geniuses would even mention it.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=152402\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You'll also find material on "Blend If" in Donnie O'Quinn's "Photoshop 6 Shop Manual". It's dated but I hang on to that book for its sheer practical utility. It's a shame New Rider's stopped carrying this particular series, because the up-dates would have been really useful - clear, straight description of what happens item by item.
Title: Blend if
Post by: Mark D Segal on November 13, 2007, 09:31:02 am
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Geniuses? if you're referring to Pixel Geniuses, you're incorrect. Bruce Fraser mentioned it in great detail in his sharpening book as well as Real World Photoshop. I don't (it has nothing to do with color management). Jeff's book is about Camera Raw (and not out yet) so I doubt you'll see it mentioned, Seth doesn't have a book.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=152409\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Andrew, yes, Real World Photoshop deals with it - but mainly in a sharpening context. Of course it has other uses too. BTW, JEff's book is apparently now on the market - he announced on this website in another thread, with a reference to his article in PSN describing the printing process. If Amazon.com is true to its word, our copies should arrive any time now.
Title: Blend if
Post by: digitaldog on November 13, 2007, 09:34:44 am
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Andrew, yes, Real World Photoshop deals with it - but mainly in a sharpening context. Of course it has other uses too. BTW, JEff's book is apparently now on the market - he announced on this website in another thread, with a reference to his article in PSN describing the printing process. If Amazon.com is true to its word, our copies should arrive any time now.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=152415\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

When I get a copy, it's out <g>.

Point is, its unlikely Jeff, a Pixel Genius will discuss Blend If in an ACR book. Point is, Bruce discussed it, maybe not to Chris's satisfaction but it was discussed.
Title: Blend if
Post by: Mark D Segal on November 13, 2007, 09:46:15 am
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When I get a copy, it's out <g>.

Point is, its unlikely Jeff, a Pixel Genius will discuss Blend If in an ACR book. Point is, Bruce discussed it, maybe not to Chris's satisfaction but it was discussed.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=152419\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You're right - it's not an ACR issue.

Yup - as I mentioned, it was discussed in Real World Photoshop - I was just making the point that there is more to be said about it. Katrin covered much of the other essentials very well. But I think Chris has a point - it's one of those nooks and crannies in Photoshop that deserves even a yet more fulsome treatment, all gathered together in one place, with examples, yada, yada.
Title: Blend if
Post by: bjanes on November 13, 2007, 03:19:27 pm
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Geniuses? if you're referring to Pixel Geniuses, you're incorrect. Bruce Fraser mentioned it in great detail in his sharpening book as well as Real World Photoshop. I don't (it has nothing to do with color management). Jeff's book is about Camera Raw (and not out yet) so I doubt you'll see it mentioned, Seth doesn't have a book.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=152409\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well, Bruce used the BLEND IF sliders in his sharpening work flow, and mentioned the same in Real World Photoshop PS2, but really does not discuss it for general editing in any detail. When I was reading Dan Margulis's Photoshop LAB book where he uses blending and blend if rather extensively, I sought further help in the Real World PSCS2 book and did not find it that helpful. I found the tutorial on the Retouching web site most helpful.
Title: Blend if
Post by: Neil Hunt on November 13, 2007, 05:50:57 pm
There is also a very good example by Michael Reichmann using the blend if sliders and illustrated by screenshots. It was in connection with using the overlay, multiply functions with gaussian blur layers. Can't seem to find it at the moment, but it will still be there somewhere - an excellent article.
Title: Blend if
Post by: Mark D Segal on November 13, 2007, 08:23:29 pm
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There is also a very good example by Michael Reichmann using the blend if sliders and illustrated by screenshots. It was in connection with using the overlay, multiply functions with gaussian blur layers. Can't seem to find it at the moment, but it will still be there somewhere - an excellent article.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=152549\")

I believe you are referring to the 2004 article by Glen Mitchell here: [a href=\"http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/glow.shtml]Blend If[/url]
Title: Blend if
Post by: Chris_T on November 14, 2007, 09:03:12 am
That's exactly what I meant to say. Thanks for taking the words out of my mouth.

Blend If has many features and not intuitive. It is one of those tools that many are unaware of. But those who learn about it often wonder how they ever live without it.

Since Blend If is rather complicated to explain well in full detail for different applications, perhaps that's why most of the PS authors dedcide to leave it out. Instead, every book would devote chapters on setting the preferences, etc., topics that are already beaten to death. These authors seem to be more interested in bulking up their books with these mundane topics than offering something special on topics rarely covered well to set themselves apart.

Yes, there are a few quite well written online tutorials on Blend If. That's how I learned about it. And yes, Margulis also covers it well (in a rather scattered manner). But I hesitated to bring his name up in fear of starting another mud flinging.

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But I think Chris has a point - it's one of those nooks and crannies in Photoshop that deserves even a yet more fulsome treatment, all gathered together in one place, with examples, yada, yada.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=152420\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: Blend if
Post by: digitaldog on November 14, 2007, 09:16:20 am
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I believe you are referring to the 2004 article by Glen Mitchell here: Blend If (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/glow.shtml)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=152602\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

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That's exactly what I meant to say. Thanks for taking the words out of my mouth.

Blend If has many features and not intuitive. It is one of those tools that many are unaware of. But those who learn about it often wonder how they ever live without it.

OK, I just looked over Glen's tutorial and I don't see where he says anything with respect to Blend If that's much different from what others have (how it uses tonality and splits to affect what does or doesn't get applied by the underlying layers). The overall concept seems straightforward. What am I missing? How is what Glen did with Blend If with the blur different from what Bruce did with Blend If with sharpening?
Title: Blend if
Post by: Mark D Segal on November 14, 2007, 09:33:33 am
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OK, I just looked over Glen's tutorial and I don't see where he says anything with respect to Blend If that's much different from what others have (how it uses tonality and splits to affect what does or doesn't get applied by the underlying layers). The overall concept seems straightforward. What am I missing? How is what Glen did with Blend If with the blur different from what Bruce did with Blend If with sharpening?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=152697\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Andrew, not much different. I was just being helpful pointing to the specific article Chris had difficulty finding. Bruce and Glenn cover similar territory. I've spent a bit of time looking into what a number of authors say about "Blend IF", and I come away with the observation that all of them essentially deal with those two sliders at the bottom of the Layer Styles dialog box. But that dialog box has a lot more stuff in it, and I think Chris has a point that it's hard to find a succinct exposition of the full potential of these options.
Title: Blend if
Post by: Schewe on November 14, 2007, 11:36:01 am
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Bruce and Glenn cover similar territory.[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=152707\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Well, of course, that's the way Glenn operates...take the work of others and regurgitate and claim it as his own. That's his MO. And, in some cases, the phraseology was so close as to be near plagiarism.

In fact, I can't recall Glenn EVER writing about a concept that was truely his own...(not sure he ever had one)
Title: Blend if
Post by: Mark D Segal on November 14, 2007, 03:05:16 pm
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Well, of course, that's the way Glenn operates...take the work of others and regurgitate and claim it as his own. That's his MO. And, in some cases, the phraseology was so close as to be near plagiarism.

In fact, I can't recall Glenn EVER writing about a concept that was truely his own...(not sure he ever had one)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=152739\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi Jeff - thanks for bringing that to surface - I wasn't aware of it.
Title: Blend if
Post by: Tim Gray on November 14, 2007, 03:18:49 pm
Another tutorial on blend-if,  basic (just the sliders), but well laid out...  

http://www.ronbigelow.com/articles/bend-if/blend-if.htm (http://www.ronbigelow.com/articles/bend-if/blend-if.htm)
Title: Blend if
Post by: Neil Hunt on November 14, 2007, 04:40:51 pm
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I believe you are referring to the 2004 article by Glen Mitchell here: Blend If (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/glow.shtml)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=152602\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You're right I was thanks, apologies for mis-attributing it.
Title: Blend if
Post by: bobrobert on November 15, 2007, 05:26:28 am
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Well, of course, that's the way Glenn operates...take the work of others and regurgitate and claim it as his own. That's his MO. And, in some cases, the phraseology was so close as to be near plagiarism.

In fact, I can't recall Glenn EVER writing about a concept that was truely his own...(not sure he ever had one)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=152739\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Don't all authors to a certain extent do the same? They read up on what has gone before them Quote it Agree with it Debunk it Change the style of writing and publish a "new" book that is 95% of what has already been done?
Title: Blend if
Post by: Tim Gray on November 15, 2007, 08:52:30 am
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Don't all authors to a certain extent do the same? They read up on what has gone before them Quote it Agree with it Debunk it Change the style of writing and publish a "new" book that is 95% of what has already been done?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=153004\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


...and credit the source...
Title: Blend if
Post by: gmitchel on March 22, 2008, 02:28:09 pm
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Well, of course, that's the way Glenn operates...take the work of others and regurgitate and claim it as his own. That's his MO. And, in some cases, the phraseology was so close as to be near plagiarism.

In fact, I can't recall Glenn EVER writing about a concept that was truely his own...(not sure he ever had one)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=152739\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I have been off all of the forums for several months as I finished both an e-book and video tutorials on sharpening photographs.

This sort of comment is unfortunate. Jeff persistently attacks me, whenever anyone references my tutorials, my scripts, etc. I'm not going to replay that history here or elsewhere.

I have stated before here on this forum and elsewhere, and I'll restate this: Jeff, you need to move past your hostility towards me. It does not do the digital photography world any good at all. Focus your energy on improving your products and teaching people about Photoshop tools and techniques *AND* stop the attempts at character assassination.

I never claimed originality to the discussion of the Blend If sliders. I don't think anyone can, except the Adobe Help authors (and they're anonymous).

What I claim is original is my style of presentation. I don't know who did the presentation in RealWorld Photoshop, David Blatner or Bruce Fraser, but I found it to be the most confusing prose description in a book that is very well written. Baskets catching eggs was an extended metaphor that left me confused.

Which Photoshop author goes through a long recitation of every book chapter and trade magazine articles they've read on something like Blend If sliders? No one.

I make references to the works of others, where such references are warranted. That is true in my tutorials. It is certainly true in my e-book and my video tutorials on sharpening. There are many references to Bruce Fraser, Michael Reichmann, Dan Margulis, Scott Kelby, Dave Cross, Matt Kloskowski, Deke McClelland,  Ben Willmore, Katrin Eismann, Barry Haynes, Wendy Crumpler, Sean Duggan, and others. There are even references to Jeff Schewe and Andrew Rodney in both the eBook and the video tutorials.

Cheers,

Mitch
Title: Blend if
Post by: Schewe on March 22, 2008, 08:11:28 pm
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I make references to the works of others, where such references are warranted.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=183540\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Uh huh. . .well, lookie at who showed up again after all this time.

In the grand scheme of things, you and your "references" and the way you work is simply not something particularly important anymore. With Bruce's passing, I suppose you are free to "characterize" history any way you want, but, I remember the way you behaved and I'll not forget (I actually have saved PDFs of the Adobe Forums posts you made and your outlandish behavior so I can remember and quote you if need be).

But to respond at length to you would give you far more relevance that is deserved...so, rather, I'll just add you to my Ignore User list here on LL.
Title: Blend if
Post by: Peter_DL on March 23, 2008, 05:26:08 am
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I have been off all of the forums for several months as I finished both an e-book and video tutorials on sharpening photographs.

This sort of comment is unfortunate....
... you need to move past your hostility towards me. It does not do the digital photography world any good at all.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=183540\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Mitch,

In a neutral sense: I think you will have to decide if you want to contribute here again on a regular basis.

Peter

--
Title: Blend if
Post by: stamper on March 23, 2008, 07:17:55 am
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Mitch,

In a neutral sense: I think you will have to decide if you want to contribute here again on a regular basis.

Peter

--
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=183680\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I don't know what went on before but doesn't most authors refer to previoisly published material and see if they can "debunk" or "improve" it I have over twenty ps books and I see in a few of them material which is similar or the same If someone accuses someone else of copying material is it not difficult to prove and the laws of libel come into play? Can any author put their hands on their heart and say that their books are original?
Title: Blend if
Post by: Mark D Segal on March 23, 2008, 09:09:13 am
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I don't know what went on before but doesn't most authors refer to previoisly published material and see if they can "debunk" or "improve" it I have over twenty ps books and I see in a few of them material which is similar or the same If someone accuses someone else of copying material is it not difficult to prove and the laws of libel come into play? Can any author put their hands on their heart and say that their books are original?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=183688\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Stamper, much information is open source public domain stuff which doesn't need any acknowledgement. Beyond that, it is normal and accepted professional ethics, which you will find implemented in a great many of these books and articles, that authors acknowledge the source of ideas they borrowed them from others. I think that's the main point at issue here.
Title: Blend if
Post by: gmitchel on March 23, 2008, 01:47:48 pm
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Mitch,

In a neutral sense: I think you will have to decide if you want to contribute here again on a regular basis.

Peter

--
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=183680\")

If I do understand you, I'm not about to let Jeff drive me off. Nor do I intend to let his presence moderate my comments.

I believe I was a contributor here before Jeff Schewe. I intend to continue to contribute here and even submit articles for Michael Reichmann to consider.

I don't intend to pick fights with Jeff. I replied on this thread because Jeff made a scurrilous personal attack. I wanted anyone who reads this forum to know that I do acknowledge previous authors in my Photoshop articles, tutorials, and videos.

If Jeff would stop the personal attacks, I'd give him no thought at all. He attacked me here when I had not even visited this site in several months. Jeff erupts like this somewhere every few months -- and like this with no precipitating message from me.

The interesting point is Jeff's chutzpah and hypocrisy on the very point for which he scolds me. Let me give you a couple of links from his own site:

[a href=\"http://www.pixelgenius.com/tips/schewe-color-bw.pdf]http://www.pixelgenius.com/tips/schewe-color-bw.pdf[/url]
http://www.pixelgenius.com/tips/schewe-sharpening.pdf (http://www.pixelgenius.com/tips/schewe-sharpening.pdf)

Was Jeff the first to propose using the Channel Mixer for B&W conversion? It would appear so. Jeff is certainly silent about anyone else having the idea.

Or, how about using the Luminosity information from L*a*b? Clearly not. Even Jeff says, "As some have recommended, the Lightness channel of a Lab mode image can have useful infromation for grayscale use." Who says that?! Jeff doesn't tell readers. Why not? If we're going to use the norms of scholarship, no peer-review process would allow that anonymous gesture. If we can agree that behavior is motivated, why would Jeff not mention names instead of saying "As some have recommended . . ."?

Likewise, was Jeff Schewe or Bruce Fraser the first to use or recommend an edge mask for USM sharpening? I can remember discussions and even tools like the actions from Fred Miranda that predated Bruce Fraser's articles for the creativepro.com site. Jeff makes no mention of the intellectual history for edge mask sharpening. If we apply Jeff's logic, that leaves the impression that he and Bruce were the first to write about the technique.

Or how about the occasional reference to anonymous engineers at Adobe that Jeff makes in his writings. If we're going to give due credit, why not mention the names of the engineers? One can argue that intellectual honesty requires those details. The citation rules for scholarship certainly do.

Now, I'm not arguing that the norms for citing other works is the same for trade publications as it is for scholarship. Or even that they should be the same. It is the comments of Jeff Schewe that I have been deficient in that regard. So I do believe it is fair to apply those same standards to Jeff's authorship and the published work of other Photoshop authors.

Even the umbrage that Jeff expresses over my forum comments is another example of hypocrisy. Just look at his comments yesterday on this forum about Dan Margulis, LCE, and HiRaLoAm sharpening. He certainly could have been more tactful in his comments. I don't quarrel about Jeff's interpretation that Dan Margulis was not the first to describe the technique and HiRaLoAm is not a great name. But, was it necessary to call is silly and stupid? Jeff frequently uses inflammatory language like that *AND* then has the gall to initiate a five year harrassment campaign against me because he didn't like my comments about Russell Preston Brown's campy presentation style!?

I have no control over Jeff's periodic eruptions on this or other forums. I can promise you that I have no intention of initiating such personal attacks. I will be sure, however, that forum readers do understand that I have been willing to acknowledge the ideas of others in my Photoshop articles, tutorials, and videos. Even those of Jeff Schewe! LOL.

You can now expect Jeff to point you to the archived comments from years ago. They were not and are not relevant to this thread, but Jeff I expect that will be aching to justify his personal attack that generated this controvery.

This is all regrettable. Jeff's personal attack had no place here. He has good ideas. We'd all be better off if he stuck to positive contributions.

(Oh, that's right. No worry. I'm irrelevant and on his ignore list. LOL.)

I've said enough on this point. I do have projects where time is better spent.  But do expect my voice on this forum -- occasionally sometimes, because I really do have a lot of ongoing projects.

Cheers,

Mitch
Title: Blend if
Post by: Schewe on March 23, 2008, 08:52:57 pm
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Was Jeff the first to propose using the Channel Mixer for B&W conversion? It would appear so. Jeff is certainly silent about anyone else having the idea.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=183770\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I'll make an exception from my ignore rule to answer this one question and let it stand as an example for some of the other questions raised and the ignorance of this individual...

Yes, I probably was the first person (outside of Adobe) to use Channel Mixer for B&W conversions after the feature engineer, Chris Cox of Adobe, put it in an early alpha build of Photoshop 6 back in the 1999 time frame. As I recall, the Monochrome checkbox wasn't in an early build and discussions with Chris resulted in the Monochrome button being put in specifically to do B&W conversions. The original design was to do color correction by blending color channel %'s that offered more flexibility than Apply Image and Calculations.

This is but one example of a newcomer to the industry not having a clue about what has gone on in the past and who has been involved in what development and who has developed what techniques. I've been doing this stuff since Aug 16, 1992 (I didn't actually start using Photoshop until version 2.0). The people I read and learned from were David Biedny and Bert Monroy (both who have become friends–I recently shot Bert's portrait for his new book). I met Bruce Fraser at a Seybold the week Photoshop 3 was released Sept 1994. I learned a lot from Bruce's Real World Photoshop 3 book coauthored with David Blatner which was released in 1996. BTW, it was on page 244 where Bruce first suggested a two-pass sharpening workflow approach.

As far as the Blend slider (to remain somewhat on topic) I remember Katrin Eismann teaching how to use blending option during a Photoshop Conference (sometime in 1997 I think using Photoshop 4) and how to use them to target the levels of the image when blending retouching and restorations.

The people this individual claims to credit in his writing (note, I've not read anything by him in a couple of years when he WASN'T so conscientious-I still have those early PDFs where he DOESN'T reference anybody else) are all friends and people with whom I share a collegial relationship–one in which we've all learned from each other over the years as well as learning at the feet of the engineers who actually write the code.

On the other hand Glenn E. Mitchell II, Ph.D. does not have a  collegial relationship (that I'm aware of) with them and certainly didn't have a collegial relationship with Bruce Fraser (who "Mitch" tended to antagonize over the years–it's pretty hard to piss of a Buddhist but he did) and this whole animus started on the Adobe Forums where "Mitch" attacked other forum users (not even me, mind you) for the mention that Russell Brown had developed a dual Hue & Sat layer B&W conversion technique before him. Seems "Mitch" doesn't much care for Russell and seemed to accuse Russell of having stolen the technique from somebody else–which since I was involved with Russell working on that technique the summer of 2001 before a joint Seybold appearance together in the weeks following 9-11, I knew to be false.

From that point on I've maintained an extreme dislike for this fellow...and yes, we do tend to have dustups from time to time. So be it. I can live my life knowing I'll never be friendly with him and make sure I point out to people just exactly who he is and how he operates. He's all loving and warmth while he's "giving" his knowledge away and people flower him with praise for his generosity but he turns very nasty very quickly if you question him. He's publicly stated that his motivation (or at least one of them) for the Lights Right Sharpening was to take Bruce's philosophies about sharpening and create a competing "product" to give away. I presume to have taught Mr. Fraser a lesson because Bruce was "mean" to him in an exchange on the Adobe Forums (and to have a negative impact on PixelGenius because he doesn't like any of us).

The fact that "Mitch" can't conceive of anybody actually being the first to create a technique gives you a clue as to how he thinks. Since he's not known for having broken new ground with new and innovative Photoshop techniques, he presumes everybody has simply taken from others. Which to a degree is true, but those early Photoshop pioneers actually knew and liked each other and shared freely amongst themselves and the synergy of working together has helped move this industry forward. So, it was more a sharing not a taking...

There is such a group, many of them Photoshop alpha testers who have developed what was then, new techniques–often while working with the engineers who developed features with the group's input–and going out and teaching those techniques in books and seminars over the years. By their standards, Glenn E. Mitchell II, Ph.D. doesn't fit in.

I'll try REAL HARD not go get further drawn into to a pissing match with this guy for the sake of the forums. But, you should know that it's not my experience that a Leopard can change his spots...
Title: Blend if
Post by: gmitchel on March 23, 2008, 10:12:27 pm
Let's be clear about this. I did not go to the effort of creating the TLR Sharpening Toolkit because of comments from Bruce.

(The Buddhist maneuver is cute, BTW. I've known several Buddhist converts with anger management issues. If you do much research on motivations for Buddhist conversion, anger management is a fairly common reason. Buddhists are not even universally non-violent, let alone unemotional. Just look at Sri Lanka.)

I created the TLR Sharpening Toolkit and decided to give it away because of comments by Jeff. The comments were not even directed at me in any way. Jeff quipped one day on DPReview, that if people did not like the way he and Bruce conduct business, they could go and read Bruce's articles and create their own tools.

I decided Jeff was right. I could read Bruce's articles and create my own tools. I could go one step further and give them away. Jeff knows all of this full well, too! It's just another attempt to demonize me through historical revisionism.

What happened here was a "dust up" that Jeff initiated. PERIOD. I had not even been active here for many months. I was not participating on this thread. Someone mentioned an article I wrote and Jeff Schewe used that as an opportunity to make a personal attack. He was settling an old score.

Regardless of what might have happened elsewhere long ago, I believe it is inexcusable for someone to drag stuff up from another forum and on a completely unrelated topic just to pick a fight!

Notice how Jeff still cannot promise not to do it AGAIN here. Even Jeff knows that he cannot moderate his behavior.

I can make that promise. If Jeff Schewe keeps his mouth off of me, I will not pick a personal fight with him. We might disagree on technical issues, etc. but those disagreements will be expressed with civility.

Cheers,

Mitch
Title: Blend if
Post by: DarkPenguin on March 23, 2008, 10:26:57 pm
Who cares?  Take it outside, ladies.
Title: Blend if
Post by: Mark D Segal on March 23, 2008, 10:54:14 pm
Nah! They should "Blend If";  
Title: Blend if
Post by: Mark D Segal on March 23, 2008, 11:42:07 pm
Quote
............(The Buddhist maneuver is cute, BTW. I've known several Buddhist converts with anger management issues. If you do much research on motivations for Buddhist conversion, anger management is a fairly common reason. Buddhists are not even universally non-violent, let alone unemotional. Just look at Sri Lanka.)...........

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=183843\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Joking aside, I find this diversion into amateur psycho-analytics on Buddhism to be of very questionable relevance to matters photographic, comments on the situation in Sri Lanka even less so, and these references in the context of this discussion both tasteless and disrespectful.
Title: Blend if
Post by: Jeremy Roussak on March 24, 2008, 04:26:41 am
Quote
I'll make an exception from my ignore rule to answer this one question and let it stand as an example for some of the other questions raised and the ignorance of this individual...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=183833\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

As someone of enormous perception wrote a while ago,

Quote
Both of you yahoos go stand in the friggin' corner...

If you don't have something useful to say, keep your friggin' fingers off the keyboard.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=140467\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Jeremy
Title: Blend if
Post by: Peter_DL on March 24, 2008, 06:24:14 am
Quote
Who cares?  Take it outside, ladies.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=183844\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
That’s what I meant: take it outside, but stay in here, and for the time being try to comment or answer questions in a friendly and unagitated manner.

Peter

--
Title: Blend if
Post by: bernie west on March 24, 2008, 08:37:01 am
I don't know anyone's history in all this, but to me, Jeff is like a redneck hillbilly, sitting on his porch, wildly taking pot shots at anything that comes by.  Half of what Jeff says isn't related to photography, so why should his victims have to live by different rules?

Anyway, if nothing else, Jeff's sprays are usually a bloody good laugh!
Title: Blend if
Post by: Mark D Segal on March 24, 2008, 09:08:11 am
Quote
I don't know anyone's history in all this, but to me, Jeff is like a redneck hillbilly, sitting on his porch, wildly taking pot shots at anything that comes by.  Half of what Jeff says isn't related to photography, so why should his victims have to live by different rules?

Anyway, if nothing else, Jeff's sprays are usually a bloody good laugh!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=183900\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Before you paint people as redneck hillbillies taking pot-shots (and I can see any "hillbillies" reading this being outraged) maybe you should immerse yourself in the history so you'll have a better understanding of who created what over time. I find Jeff's account of this development indeed relevant to photography, unlike comments about anger management, Buddhism and the civil struggle in Sri Lanka. Sorry.
Title: Blend if
Post by: Chris_T on March 24, 2008, 09:08:18 am
Quote
I have been off all of the forums for several months as I finished both an e-book and video tutorials on sharpening photographs.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=183540\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

To the users, how you arrive at your sharpening tool is irrelevant. What is relevant is how it measures up againts the Gurus'. Assuming that you are offering it as freeware, and would like users to try it, provide some links. Let them decide for themselves, and promote it for you if they should like it. It is far more effective than engaging in verbal battles, which benefit neither you nor the potential users.
Title: Blend if
Post by: bernie west on March 24, 2008, 09:16:46 am
Quote
Before you paint people as redneck hillbillies taking pot-shots (and I can see any "hillbillies" reading this being outraged) maybe you should immerse yourself in the history so you'll have a better understanding of who created what over time. I find Jeff's account of this development indeed relevant to photography, unlike comments about anger management, Buddhism and the civil struggle in Sri Lanka. Sorry.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=183908\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Jeff brought up Buddhism, by the way.

My comments about Jeff are related to his general posting etiquette, not this post alone.  He often only pipes up to give a spray and to add the sprayee to his ignore list.  When done by any old poster this behaviour, at least for me, is a bit of a laugh.  But when done by someone heavily associated with this site, it only serves to cheapen the luminous-landscape.

I now expect the usual cadre of genuflectors to step forth and flay me in the name of JEFF!
Title: Blend if
Post by: Mark D Segal on March 24, 2008, 09:21:05 am
Quote
Jeff brought up Buddhism, by the way.

My comments about Jeff are related to his general posting etiquette, not this post alone.  He often only pipes up to give a spray and to add the sprayee to his ignore list.  When done by any old poster this behaviour, at least for me, is a bit of a laugh.  But when done by someone heavily associated with this site, it only serves to cheapen the luminous-landscape.

I now expect the usual cadre of genuflectors to step forth and flay me in the name of JEFF!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=183910\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I think your characterization is inaccurate, and I'll have nothing more to say on this particular issue. It's OT.
Title: Blend if
Post by: michael on March 24, 2008, 09:41:54 am
I'd like to suggest to everyone concerned to not let these threads, which many have found valuable, degenerate into interpersonal pissing matches.

People read these to learn and advance their craft, and as "real" as some of the personal issues may appear to some participants, they are a distraction for many. I have received no less than five emails over the past day or so requesting that I intervene here.

So, I'm closing this thread. There is no last word.

If anyone would like to start a new thread focusing again solely on the topic of Blend If, that would be fine.

Michael