Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Digital Image Processing => Topic started by: Schewe on November 08, 2007, 05:25:34 pm
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Folks,
Just a quick ping to let you know that Real World Camera Raw with Adobe Photoshop CS3 is shipping. I got my copy today (but hey, I'm the co-author, I'm supposed to get mine early).
:~)
I've done a story on PhotoshopNews.com about the book shipping and a feature story about the printing of the book.
See: It’s Shipping–Real World Camera Raw with Adobe Photoshop CS3 (http://photoshopnews.com)
And: Printing RWCR CS3 (http://photoshopnews.com/feature-stories/printing-rwcr-cs3/)
Now, back to your regularly scheduled programing....
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Well it's ABOUT TIME (cue righteous indignation ) Mr. Schewe! I've had my Amazon order in for months.
Seriously, I look forward to reading it. Congratulations on what I'm sure will be a fine continuation of the work Mr Fraser began.
BTW, your online article about the printing of the book was very interesting, and brought back memories. My dad was peripherally involved in the printing business, and my first summer job as a kid was at the print shop of one of his business associates. I have since held a keen interest in anything to do with printing.
It was my job back in those dark ages before computerized typesetting and platemaking--among other thankless tasks-- to gather up the bits of waste lead spat out by the shop's two ancient Linotype [typesetting] machines (complete with grumpy unionized Linotype operators, the prima donnas of the shop), along with ink-covered used lead type, and haul it all to the smelter out behind the shop. There I'd plop it into the 800 ºF smelter, in 100 ºF 100% humidity Louisiana summer heat, so that it could be recast into lead ingots for the Linotypes to use. All the while, I'm inhaling fumes from the smelter containing god knows what. As you have now guessed, I didn't belong to the union!
But as a treat I did get to make offset plates with the shop's process camera, and watch the pressmen run the shop's tiny offset presses. As much art and black magic as science. Skilled pressmen are a treasured resource and got paid pretty well, as I recall (1970's).
A friend owns a factory in southern Indiana (it must be the place to be due to its central location) that makes the printing cylinders for giant gravure presses that run 24/7 printing millions of cereal boxes and package labels in a single press run. The thing about these giant presses and machines is that something so huge, and fast, should be capable of such precise work.
Anyway, thanks for the story and for the book, and best of luck with it.
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Hey, congratulations!
Bruce's original book on CS2 RAW really turned on the lights for me about ACR. I had been blindly trying things without really knowing what I was doing. With all the changes in the new ACR, I'm sure your book will be equally valuable. I'll pick up a copy as soon I see it on the shelf.
Rick
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Folks,
Just a quick ping to let you know that Real World Camera Raw with Adobe Photoshop CS3 is shipping. I got my copy today (but hey, I'm the co-author, I'm supposed to get mine early).
:~)
I've done a story on PhotoshopNews.com about the book shipping and a feature story about the printing of the book.
Mine's on order and should be here next week!
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Congratulations! Great news!
I'll order mine as soon as I finish posting this.
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Yes congratulations Jeff, I'm also off to check out amazon. Wayne
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Congrats and thanx for providing such an interesting story about the press-run.
Cheers,
J
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I pre-ordered it a long time ago... I can't wait to have in hands.
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Congrats and thanx for providing such an interesting story about the press-run.
Cheers,
J
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151505\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Yes indeed. Jeff's "travelogues" are always fascinating and this was no exception.
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*Great* article about the book's printing! With the your, Michael, and Bill Atkinson's publishing experiences, perhaps a forthcoming "From Camera to Coffee Table" piece?
-John
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Folks,
Just a quick ping to let you know that Real World Camera Raw with Adobe Photoshop CS3 is shipping. I got my copy today (but hey, I'm the co-author, I'm supposed to get mine early).
:~)
I've done a story on PhotoshopNews.com about the book shipping and a feature story about the printing of the book.
See: It’s Shipping–Real World Camera Raw with Adobe Photoshop CS3 (http://photoshopnews.com)
And: Printing RWCR CS3 (http://photoshopnews.com/feature-stories/printing-rwcr-cs3/)
Now, back to your regularly scheduled programing....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151392\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Congratulations Jeff. I ordered mine back in August from Amazon.com, then in early october I got a delay notice telling me I should expect to receive it between November 15th~21st. Considering it will be shipped from the USA to Canada this is consistent with today's announcement. Looking forward to reading it.
Cheers,
Mark
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Jeff,
Just finished reading the printing article. FASCINATING. The technology embodied in that job looks QUITE impressive - that plant muat have invested a tidy sum. Do you know how long the printing job took from start to finish of the first run? Also interesting - one gets the impression that there isn't really a very large number of staff.
Mark
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Just finished reading the printing article. FASCINATING. The technology embodied in that job looks QUITE impressive - that plant must have invested a tidy sum.
As I said in the article, the press I was on was MAN 3, they had two other presses running that day as well. I saw some interesting stuff coming out of the other presses and a lot of other books in various stages of assembly, but part of the deal with them letting me shoots was that I only shoot MY stuff and keep what else was in-plant confidential. I will say that other Peachpit books are printed there...Courier is Peachpit's premier book printer.
Do you know how long the printing job took from start to finish of the first run? Also interesting - one gets the impression that there isn't really a very large number of staff.
Well, I was there for the entire print run (ok, I slipped out midway through form 9, the last form because I had to drive back to Chicago that note). The total time for the print run was under 13 hrs, but I'm precluded from stating what the actual press run count was (Peachpit didn't want to let any other publishers know how they buy print runs).
For the main printing, there were three pressmen and two catchers binding the printed signatures. We also had the press manager stop by during the day and a few others showed up from time to time. Total number of people at the plant was, of course, much higher. There were many people working in the bindery and they have an entire plate making department (that was hidden behind doors I wasn't allowed to go through because they keep it in a "dust free" environment.
Then, of course, there are a lot of office workers up front. I think total at Kendallville is 475 employees. So, it's a bigger company than it looks from the shots. The press guide said something about the Kendallville plant doing 40,000 tons of printing making up 50 million books in 2005.
But that was before they got their third LITHOMAN press so I suspect they could do more now. Their expansion in 2006 cost about $21 million–don't know what part the presses played–I never could get a straight answer to what the press costs–I'm not sure anybody knows what just the press costs there as there is a lot more to a "press" than the press; inks systems, paper handling, heater/dryer/folder, chopper, etc.
It actually was a really fun field trip, but in the grand scheme of things, by the time the book got on press, there really wasn't much left to chance. They already had nailed color even before I got there that morning. Every time I found a registration thingie to mention Vinnie or Kurt were already working on it. So, I was pretty much just there for the ride.
Now, I'm also planning on doing a story on how we did profiles for the book. That's an interesting story too. But I have to get permission from Martin to disclose a method he used that I picked up for doing double seps and then assembling them to use dual GCR settings within an image. I do know that Peachpit was impressed with the way I ended up doing all the CMYK separations and the same technique is being used by Conrad Chavaz for Real World Photoshop as well. I'll also admit I had the help of three top color geeks working with me; Andrew Rodney, Karl Lang and Chris Murphy who ended up making my profiles for me based on the SWOP 2006 spectral data. Chris was Bruce's co-author of Real World Color Management and Karl Lang did the ColorMatch RGB color space as well as designing the Sony Artisan. So, I had a lot of help (sometimes too much help in the beginning).
But the whole process of writing and producing the book was actually enjoyable. Yes, it was a lot of work...it's how I spent June-August of this year working every day like it was a real job. But it will be very gratifying if the revision is well received. I've already started thinking about the next edition...I already know a lot of stuff Thomas and Zalman want to put in Camera Raw 5.0 and I'll tell ya, the next version will have to be even longer. This time we went from 304 to 384 pages and it was real work to keep the page count that low. But all the effort is really dedicated to the memory of Bruce...I'm just batting the cleanup unfortunately.
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Jeff, many thanks for this added insight - most interesting. I think an article on the colour management aspect of the book production would make a good contribution to the literature, especially given the progressive evolution of this science. I think your focus, taking-up where Bruce left-off, on Camera Raw. is right on target. Needless to say I have no idea what's coming in 5.0, but my sense of the general direction and impetus given by Lightroom and 4.x is that this technology is "taking-off" and has a very fruitful future.
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I'm really looking forward to getting this book and preordered it from Amazon; unfortunately it shows a shipping date of mid-January.
I actually spoke to a "service representative" at Amazon about this, but got nowhere.
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I'm really looking forward to getting this book and preordered it from Amazon; unfortunately it shows a shipping date of mid-January.
I actually spoke to a "service representative" at Amazon about this, but got nowhere.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=152861\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
This is no good. I see my delivery has been backed-up to late December also. But the book is published. There is obviously a problem between the publisher and Amazon.com. Jeff should be made aware of this.
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Folks,
Just a quick ping to let you know that Real World Camera Raw with Adobe Photoshop CS3 is shipping. I got my copy today (but hey, I'm the co-author, I'm supposed to get mine early).
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=151392\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Jeff, if the book is "shipping" it damn-well ain't shipping from Amazon.com, the place from which *most of the world* orders their books - I have a new delivery estimate of late December-early January. Another poster here just mentioned the same thing. "Sumting ain't right."
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Jeff, if the book is "shipping" it damn-well ain't shipping from Amazon.com, the place from which *most of the world* orders their books - I have a new delivery estimate of late December-early January. Another poster here just mentioned the same thing. "Sumting ain't right."
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=152865\")
Believe me, it's Amazon...Scott Kelby had the same issue on a recent book, see: [a href=\"http://www.scottkelby.com/blog/2007/archives/682]A Note From The Book Publisher[/url].
I've got my books–I even gave Micheal one that he received today–and as of yesterday, Amazon US HAS received some shipments in some of their warehouses but their system is still screwed...
I've been asked by Nancy NOT to go into a major public slam of Amazon because she and Amazon are working to fix Amazon's system....more about that when I get it.
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Congrats, Jeff.
Edmund
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Believe me, it's Amazon...Scott Kelby had the same issue on a recent book, see: A Note From The Book Publisher (http://www.scottkelby.com/blog/2007/archives/682).
I've got my books–I even gave Micheal one that he received today–and as of yesterday, Amazon US HAS received some shipments in some of their warehouses but their system is still screwed...
I've been asked by Nancy NOT to go into a major public slam of Amazon because she and Amazon are working to fix Amazon's system....more about that when I get it.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=152886\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
There have been similar issues with Amazon in the not too distant past. I'm glad to hear they are actually receiving some books - perhaps they will surprise us with some shipments well ahead of the dates in the emails - but really Jeff, one wonders specifically what's going on - whether Amamzon ordered enough copies, whether Peachpit shipped them all, whether there are transport delays, whether the problem is Amazon receiving and cataloguing their inventory for release, etc. It's probably a bit more complicated under the hood than we consumers realise, but anything Nancy can do to help unstick it and get the books moving will be great. Tell Nancy you've got a bunch of *eager-beavers* (remember this is Canada calling) wanting to read that book!
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Schewe
hello
what are you thoughts on DC RAW
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Jeff, if the book is "shipping" it damn-well ain't shipping from Amazon.com, the place from which *most of the world* orders their books - I have a new delivery estimate of late December-early January. Another poster here just mentioned the same thing. "Sumting ain't right."
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=152865\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I also got a note from Amazon that they expect to ship the second half of December! That came two days after they sent a message that I would receive it the 15th of November!
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but really Jeff, one wonders specifically what's going on - whether Amamzon ordered enough copies, whether Peachpit shipped them all, whether there are transport delays, whether the problem is Amazon receiving and cataloguing their inventory for release, etc.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=152906\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
It ain't just Peachpit...there were similar problems with O'Reilly's Photoshop Lightroom Adventure...it's all an Amazon problem and an automated system that once enabled, takes over....the problem is that if the data entry is faulty (as it was with the REAL ship date of RWCR CS3-Peachpit ALWAYS said "Fall 2007") everything else happens with no human intervention including the sending of bogus emails...and it ain't only Peachpit that is clamoring for Amazon to get their act together...
Course, once it actually ships, people tend to forget about the initial problems..but not me. I don't get mad, I get even.
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what are you thoughts on DC RAW
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=152914\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I have no thoughts on dcRAW...other than Dave Coffin has done the industry a service but I have no need for a conversion tool that results in linear files.
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OK, if it is an Amazon problem, can anybody recommend a retailer where we can purchase the book now or in the near future?
PS to Jeff S. - see how excited we are to get your book.
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It ain't just Peachpit...there were similar problems with O'Reilly's Photoshop Lightroom Adventure...it's all an Amazon problem and an automated system that once enabled, takes over....the problem is that if the data entry is faulty (as it was with the REAL ship date of RWCR CS3-Peachpit ALWAYS said "Fall 2007") everything else happens with no human intervention including the sending of bogus emails...and it ain't only Peachpit that is clamoring for Amazon to get their act together...
Course, once it actually ships, people tend to forget about the initial problems..but not me. I don't get mad, I get even.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=152961\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I hear you - I have enough experience ordering books from Amazon.com to relate to that. But I have to say, it wasn't always like this. Back in the 90s when they started-up and introduced to the world the concept of large scale e-commerce in books - and they were losing money hand-over-fist - their merchandising control and service were excellent. Things happen over time. Perhaps they've gotten too big and diversified and too short on properly qualified staff to manage it all correctly.
I also got one of those emails announcing delivery this week, and I had to go into my account to see it is even further delayed. But like you, I'm not *angry* - just disappointed. And as for getting "even" - Jeff - do tell us - how does one "get even" with Amazon.com? Should I have visions of you driving your bike straight into the CEO's office, revving the engine and telling him to get his act together? Back to reality, I'm going to write them this morning - sometimes when a customer pitches the right kind of message to the right level it gets listened to and things happen.
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OK, if it is an Amazon problem, can anybody recommend a retailer where we can purchase the book now or in the near future?
PS to Jeff S. - see how excited we are to get your book.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=152977\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
You can order it directly from Peachpit at www.peachpit.com.
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I have no thoughts on dcRAW...other than Dave Coffin has done the industry a service but I have no need for a conversion tool that results in linear files.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=152962\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
DCRaw can output linear files (gamma = 1.0), which is not something that can't be done with ACR to the best of my knowledge. Setting contrast, brightness and black point to zero in ACR will produce a linear tonal response curve, the the resulting file is still gamma encoded. DCraw can also render into aRBG, sRGB, and ProPhotoRGB. However, its command line interface is not conducive to large volume work.
In a recent test where I calibrated ACR with the Fors script for my Nikon D200, I found that DCRaw produced a smaller ΔE*94 than either ACR or Nikon Capture NX. Since DCRaw uses the Adobe coefficients for converting from the camera space to the working space (at least when I last reviewed the source code), the smaller ΔE*94 is somewhat surprising.]
Bill
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...can anybody recommend a retailer where we can purchase the book now or in the near future?[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=152977\")
[a href=\"http://www.peachpit.com/store/product.aspx?isbn=0321518675&rl=1]This[/url] is the link Jeff provided readers of PhotoshopNews.com to buy direct from Peachpit at a discount. I paid $31.49 plus state tax and it shipped free. Its scheduled to arrive tomorrow.
Thank you Jeff.
Fred
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Course, once it actually ships, people tend to forget about the initial problems..but not me. I don't get mad, I get even.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=152961\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Jeff,
I hope somebody gets some good photos of you biking up to Amazon with your sledge hammer in hand.
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Is anything in the book not covered in the LL C2P vids?
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Congrats, Jeff - Loved your writeup on the printing process!
Mike
(who researches book titles 'n' things on Amazon but orders them through a local independent bookshop)
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Is anything in the book not covered in the LL C2P vids?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=153094\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Uh, YEAH....the C2P was really about printing and optimizing for print. But in the case of the RWCR CS3 book, it's _ALL_ about Camera Raw, Bridge CS3 and Photoshop CS3...Check out the TOC to grok the topics covered...
But I will also say that Michael and I are discussing the possibility of doing a RWCR vid tut as well. More on that if/when...
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Great! Ordering a copy.....
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This (http://www.peachpit.com/store/product.aspx?isbn=0321518675&rl=1) is the link Jeff provided readers of PhotoshopNews.com to buy direct from Peachpit at a discount. I paid $31.49 plus state tax and it shipped free. Its scheduled to arrive tomorrow.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=153064\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
ditto here. Preodered from Amazon early August. Latest Amazon proposed ship date Dec 28. Cancelled amazon and on board with Peachpit. Peachpit ships out tomorrow.
There is a serious sickness at Amazon
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I just received a response to my complaint to Amazon.com. They tell me the book is back-ordered but they do not know when it will become available. This of course is complete rubbish, therefore I shall escalate the issue and see where that gets me. As well, I tried to order the book from Peachpit Press. Their website appears to be incompatible with Internet Explorer 7 and Windows XP. I have yet to succeed getting beyond step 1 in their order process before the whole thing gets stuck. Same thing today. I've complained to them about this in the past but they could care less. They have taken no interest in diagnosing where the problem may be. I don't have this difficulty with other websites. So it looks as if I'll just have to do without the book for a while unless I succeed in shaking-up Amazon.com a bit harder. Very frustrating.
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Follow-up. Tried Peachpit again. The site worked this time. Hallalujah. BUT to ship to Canada they want 18 dollars and only ship on the 19th. Crazy. So I have a choice of sweating it with Amazon for a delivered cost of 36 bucks, or switching to Peachpit for a delivered cost of 50 bucks - even with a 30% discount on the book. I'll give Amazon another several days to get their act together.
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Peachpit Press. Their website appears to be incompatible with Internet Explorer 7 and Windows XP. I have yet to succeed getting beyond step 1 in their order process before the whole thing gets stuck. Same thing today. I've complained to them about this in the past but they could care less. They have taken no interest in diagnosing where the problem may be. I don't have this difficulty with other websites. So it looks as if I'll just have to do without the book for a while unless I succeed in shaking-up Amazon.com a bit harder. Very frustrating.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=153229\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I experienced the same issues as you. Either enable cookies in your IE tools menu or specifically enter the Peachpit web page into your allowed sites in IE under tools/Internet options/privacy/sites - allow. Worked great for me.
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Follow-up. Tried Peachpit again. The site worked this time. Hallalujah. BUT to ship to Canada they want 18 dollars and only ship on the 19th. Crazy. So I have a choice of sweating it with Amazon for a delivered cost of 36 bucks, or switching to Peachpit for a delivered cost of 50 bucks - even with a 30% discount on the book. I'll give Amazon another several days to get their act together.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=153230\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
It cost me a few bucks to abandon Amazon to; but at least I know I am getting the book in a few days rather than the end of next month and do not have to waste time and effort sleuthing around about Amazon's availability and delivery problems.
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I experienced the same issues as you. Either enable cookies in your IE tools menu or specifically enter the Peachpit web page into your allowed sites in IE under tools/Internet options/privacy/sites - allow. Worked great for me.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=153243\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I do accept their cookies. I think they have inadequate server capacity and their site simply gets overwhelmed. Must be Jeff Schewe's popularity doing it to them
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Just checked my order at Amazon and found they weren't planning to ship until sometime in January. Needless to say I have cancelled that order and placed it with Peachpit, who say it should ship in 24 hrs.
I also ordered another book from Amazon 3 days ago which is in stock, and their expected shipping (as in leaving them) is between 19 & 28th Nov. Seems like an opportunity for other bookshops who ship quick.
David
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Anyone who thinks there is free trade between Canada and the USA, or that price discrimination between the two countries isn't alive and well should think again. As for Amazon.com - it's pretty hopeless. As for Peachpit Press - it's also pretty hopeless if you're living in Canada and great if you're living in the USA. I'll explain:
I spoke to Amazon.com over the phone - they simply refuse to acknowledge they are any part of the problem. They can't get supply, they are back-ordered with their supplier, end of story. Well, I told them it is not end of story and I referred them to this website to see if they wish o learn how their customers are deserting them to buy directly from Peachpit. At that point the lady on the phone got interested and told me she would follow-up on the matter, but the situation remains as they said: for now back-ordered and no supply till at least mid-December.
So I phoned Peachpit. Trying to get a human voice at Peachpit is probably as difficult as phoning George Bush, but I finally succeeded - not with George Bush but with Peachpit. The problem I raised with them is that if they insist on using FedEx it will cost me 18 dollars to get a 31 dollar book, which doesn't make sense. She agreed and said she thought I could do better by ordering from their Canadian company: Pearson Education Canada and transferred me to them. They quoted me a price of 48 dollars with no discount for my Peachpit membeship, plus shipping. So I would be paying about 57 Canadian dollars which is now more US dollars. She agreed it makes no sense but has no authority to match prices with their US company.
So I called back Peachpit USA and asked them if they could send the book by the US Post Office, because that would only cost a few bucks. No dice. They have a contract with FedEx which requires them to ship only with FedEx. Dead-end.
So there we are: three options for Canadians: (1) wait for Amazon and pay 36 US; (2) Order from Pearson Canada and pay around 57 bucks CAD. (3) Order from Peachpit US and pay 49 US.
None of this is a happy outcome.
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So there we are: three options for Canadians: (1) wait for Amazon and pay 36 US; (2) Order from Pearson Canada and pay around 57 bucks CAD. (3) Order from Peachpit US and pay 49 US.
None of this is a happy outcome.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=153400\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
And you wonder why the book thing is still popular. Lets see, it takes a long time to print the damn things (and there's paper, worse nasty ink involved), they are heavy and updating them is a nightmare. One wonders when PDF will take off as a far better way to communicate to others. Yes, I know that reading a book on a low rez screen is a drag. I guess you can output on your end. Searching content is way faster in PDF. You can provide hot links. You can embed video. You can update and supply to the audience in no time at all. As an author of a book, I ask myself all the time "what was I thinking"? Lets not even talk about the cut the publisher (who I admit does have some bucks to burn in the process) gets.
Frankly, I prefer in many cases to get a nice video like Michael is producing to learn a lot of this stuff. Books are so 20th century <g>
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Well, yes - to a certain extent you have a point. Nonetheless, maybe it's old fashioned die-hard habit, but I still like the idea of being able to lay down a book beside my keyboard and follow stuff from the page to the computer. Or to sit back in a comfortable reading chair with the book in hand, browse and read. There's still something to be said for this 20th century habit if the suppliers would only get their act together like it used to be in the late 20th century!
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Mark,
If you come visit me in Boston, I'll let you borrow my copy for a few hours to read. We have a nice, comfortable reading chair. I'm expecting my (discounted) copy from Peachpit in a couple of days.
Eric
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Mark,
If you come visit me in Boston, I'll let you borrow my copy for a few hours to read. We have a nice, comfortable reading chair. I'm expecting my (discounted) copy from Peachpit in a couple of days.
Eric
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=153471\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Mine arrived yesterday from Peachpit. Jeff did us all a big favor. The book is almost a complete rewrite, lots of new material written in an easy to read style. Jeff, you had some good editors.
Fred
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Mark,
If you come visit me in Boston, I'll let you borrow my copy for a few hours to read. We have a nice, comfortable reading chair. I'm expecting my (discounted) copy from Peachpit in a couple of days.
Eric
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=153471\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
That's very hospitable of you Eric - but a long trip from Toronto even to read the wise words of Jeff Schewe. I'll just stew a bit longer! When the book finally comes it will be like old vintage wine.
Cheers,
Mark
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Ordered from Amazon on Nov. 11. Checked status today in response to the discussion here and found that my shipping date was Jan. 10!! So I cancelled and ordered from Peachpit. The invoice indicated that this item usually ships within 24 hours. So we'll see. Makes me wonder about ordering Christmas presents from Amazon.
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And you wonder why the book thing is still popular. Lets see, it takes a long time to print the damn things (and there's paper, worse nasty ink involved), they are heavy and updating them is a nightmare. One wonders when PDF will take off as a far better way to communicate to others. Yes, I know that reading a book on a low rez screen is a drag. I guess you can output on your end. Searching content is way faster in PDF. You can provide hot links. You can embed video. You can update and supply to the audience in no time at all. As an author of a book, I ask myself all the time "what was I thinking"? Lets not even talk about the cut the publisher (who I admit does have some bucks to burn in the process) gets.
Frankly, I prefer in many cases to get a nice video like Michael is producing to learn a lot of this stuff. Books are so 20th century <g>
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=153406\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I think video and content developed in tools like Adobe Captivate will grow too. I used to think it a pain though and preferred books as they looked nice on my shelves and showed my obvious good taste. Yes, there is a copy of "Color Management for Photographers" there.
Now that I have two monitors digital content is much nicer and I can put the video or book on one monitor and follow along in Photoshop, Lightroom, etc on the other monitor.
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Anyone who thinks there is free trade between Canada and the USA, or that price discrimination between the two countries isn't alive and well should think again. As for Amazon.com - it's pretty hopeless. As for Peachpit Press - it's also pretty hopeless if you're living in Canada and great if you're living in the USA. I'll explain:
I spoke to Amazon.com over the phone - they simply refuse to acknowledge they are any part of the problem. They can't get supply, they are back-ordered with their supplier, end of story. Well, I told them it is not end of story and I referred them to this website to see if they wish o learn how their customers are deserting them to buy directly from Peachpit. At that point the lady on the phone got interested and told me she would follow-up on the matter, but the situation remains as they said: for now back-ordered and no supply till at least mid-December.
So I phoned Peachpit. Trying to get a human voice at Peachpit is probably as difficult as phoning George Bush, but I finally succeeded - not with George Bush but with Peachpit. The problem I raised with them is that if they insist on using FedEx it will cost me 18 dollars to get a 31 dollar book, which doesn't make sense. She agreed and said she thought I could do better by ordering from their Canadian company: Pearson Education Canada and transferred me to them. They quoted me a price of 48 dollars with no discount for my Peachpit membeship, plus shipping. So I would be paying about 57 Canadian dollars which is now more US dollars. She agreed it makes no sense but has no authority to match prices with their US company.
So I called back Peachpit USA and asked them if they could send the book by the US Post Office, because that would only cost a few bucks. No dice. They have a contract with FedEx which requires them to ship only with FedEx. Dead-end.
So there we are: three options for Canadians: (1) wait for Amazon and pay 36 US; (2) Order from Pearson Canada and pay around 57 bucks CAD. (3) Order from Peachpit US and pay 49 US.
None of this is a happy outcome.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=153400\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Mark,
I received an e-mail from Amazon today stating that my RWCRPSCS3 has just shipped. It appears that Amazon has a very poor system for shipping date estimates, but if you ordered it from Amazon, you should have it soon.
Bill
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Mark,
I received an e-mail from Amazon today stating that my RWCRPSCS3 has just shipped. It appears that Amazon has a very poor system for shipping date estimates, but if you ordered it from Amazon, you should have it soon.
Bill
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=153608\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
"very poor" is the word. I've got no email yet. I'll complain some more. Soon they'll get sufficiently tired of me to ship the darn thing!
Mark
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I'm very pleased to inform the group interested in this thread that I have now received a shipping advice from Amazon.com saying the book is shipped. It took three email exchanges and a telephone call to achieve this, but it happened. Means there's hope.
Based on the content of these exchanges, it appears there are more than two actors involved. It is not only Peachpit and Amazon. Amazon gets the books from third-party "suppliers" - not directly from Peachpit Press. Seems like a process chain that goes Peachpit>Supplier>Amazon. When their supplier doesn't have stock, they issue back-order advisories to their customers. In my case they told me they now found a supplier with stock. I do hope the same happens for the rest of you waiting to be provided.
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Mark,
I ordered mine directly from Peachpit several days after you ordered yours from Amazon. Let's see who gets it first.
Eric
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Mark,
I ordered mine directly from Peachpit several days after you ordered yours from Amazon. Let's see who gets it first.
Eric
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154145\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
No question you will - mine needs to cross the US:Canada border. It's become a real mess for tourists and transporters alike.
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Amazon gets the books from third-party "suppliers" - not directly from Peachpit Press. Seems like a process chain that goes Peachpit>Supplier>Amazon.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154137\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Actually, I'm pretty sure that 3rd party you mention is Courier Printing that handles bulk shipping (trucking) from the printing plant in Kendallville, IN...I'm also pretty darn sure that the books _DID_ ship from Courier on the 8th and I'm almost 100% sure amazon _DID_ receive their first shipments starting Nov. 12th...and I'm convinced it's completely an Amazon problem, not Preachpit, not Courier, not other publishers but 100% the fault of Amazon, and it's getting worse. But I'm also sure that Peachpit (in the form of Nancy Ruenzel, the publisher) is trying to get Amazon to fix itself...
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I just got this from Nancy (she also posted on PSN)
" I’m Jeff’s publisher and I apologize for the inconveniences you’ve experienced. If you’re still experiencing problems ordering — and this goes for all PSN readers — please send me a personal email (nar@peachpit.com) with your complete contact info/mailing address and number of copies you’d like to order and I will ensure your order is expedited. Please put RWCR/PSN in the subject header, so I can spot them quicker.
It pains me to no end to think that Jeff and my team here in Berkeley, CA have worked so very hard to to get the book finished, only to have customers experience such problems. The fundamental issue with Amazon, as I understand it today, is that even if some of their warehouses have it in stock, if all warehouses haven’t received it and flipped the switch to start shipping, an automated response with an algorithmic setting pushes the date of expected delivery out a number of weeks, and it is that communication that is misleading.
There is no way to block that message except manually, which is what we’ve asked Ammazon to do asap for RWCR. But because this has been happening with a number of titles of late, we and Amazon are changing the process and I’ve been assured it will be fixed as soon as possible, and I’m checking in on this daily. I appreciate everyone’s patience with this process."
–Nancy Aldrich-Ruenzel, Publisher, Peachpit Press and New Riders
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Actually, I'm pretty sure that 3rd party you mention is Courier Printing that handles bulk shipping (trucking) from the printing plant in Kendallville, IN...I'm also pretty darn sure that the books _DID_ ship from Courier on the 8th and I'm almost 100% sure amazon _DID_ receive their first shipments starting Nov. 12th...and I'm convinced it's completely an Amazon problem, not Preachpit, not Courier, not other publishers but 100% the fault of Amazon, and it's getting worse. But I'm also sure that Peachpit (in the form of Nancy Ruenzel, the publisher) is trying to get Amazon to fix itself...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154156\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Jeff, this is kind of important - not only for your book, but for other forthcoming photography titles that could suffer a similar fate.
I'm wondering whether the physical movement of the books you describe reflects the way the business is done - it could be two separate channels - i.e. the books get shipped in the way you say they do, but behind that activity there may well be a paper transaction between the Publisher (Peachpit) and a Book Distributor on the one hand, and the the Book Distributor and Amazon on the other. That is, there could be two buy-sell transactions governing Courier's trasnportation of the books from the printing plant to Amazon.com's warehouses. I suggest this, because it is not the first time I have come accross the matter of Amazon having a number of separate suppliers for the same item.
Anyhow, in whatever way it works, it would seem to boil down to two questions: (1) Did Amazon.com order enough copies from whoever their sources to meet the order queue they had at the time they needed to place their order plus some, and (2) did Peachpit make a large enough press run to meet all the accumulated demand - plus some - by publication date? I know you can't talk numbers over the internet, but I think these may be the generic issues. When you say it is 100% an Amazon problem, that would seem to suggest the issue is lodged with question (1), and if so, it raises the further question about how they could allow this to happen with all the computerized systems these folks have to manage the relevant business processes. It's not a good sign for either authors of Photoshop books or their readers.
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Anyhow, in whatever way it works, it would seem to boil down to two questions: (1) Did Amazon.com order enough copies from whoever their sources to meet the order queue they had at the time they needed to place their order plus some, and (2) did Peachpit make a large enough press run to meet all the accumulated demand - plus some - by publication date?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154166\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Yes to both questions...
In fact, in the email from Nancy she said: "The book got to the Amazon warehouse on the 9th and started shipping out on the 12th." The fact that shipments come into different warehouses at different times is natural because of distance from the plant. But Amazon for SURE had SOME books in SOME warehouses as early as Nov 9th and SOME books from THOSE warehouses actually shipped to end buyers on the 12th. Yet some people still got automated emails saying that the book was delayed and stated dates in Dec and Jan for delivery–which was both wrong and completely Amazon's fault.
I know you like to get to the bottom of things, so do I. But it's completely and totally Amazon's fault. Amazon started shipping some books as early as Nov 12th. The fact that nobody at Amazon can give a straight answer is due to the fact that nobody at Amazon HAS a straight answer because their system is flawed...
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Yes to both questions...
I know you like to get to the bottom of things, so do I. But it's completely and totally Amazon's fault. Amazon started shipping some books as early as Nov 12th. The fact that nobody at Amazon can give a straight answer is due to the fact that nobody at Amazon HAS a straight answer because their system is flawed...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154168\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Seems we were both posting at the same time so I didn't see Nancy's material while I was composing and sending mine.
Indeed, getting to the the bottom of things is usually the most effective route to getting them resolved. Glad it is all starting to come together and may eventually be improved for future business.
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Seems we were both posting at the same time so I didn't see Nancy's material while I was composing and sending mine.
Indeed, getting to the the bottom of things is usually the most effective route to getting them resolved. Glad it is all starting to come together and may eventually be improved for future business.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154173\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I do not know why all these posts to get to the bottom of things. Just canel your Amazon order and purchase from Peachpit. Let Jeff and his publisher sort out there Amazon problem. If you really want the book now, just order from Peachpit.
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I do not know why all these posts to get to the bottom of things. Just canel your Amazon order and purchase from Peachpit. Let Jeff and his publisher sort out there Amazon problem. If you really want the book now, just order from Peachpit.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154209\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
If you would read before you react you would see that my book is on the way from Amazon.com. If you read my earlier post before reacting you would see what my options were. If you understood that I live accross the border and that situation constrains options, you would understand why I did what I did. If you stop long enough to think about the strategy I undertook for helping to stimulate the correction of a problem that will also help other people in the same predicament you will understand why I posted seveal times on this subject. When I was in grade three more decades ago than I care to think about we had a workbook called "Think and Do". The idea stuck and I recommend it.
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If you would read before you react you would see that my book is on the way from Amazon.com. If you read my earlier post before reacting you would see what my options were. If you understood that I live accross the border and that situation constrains options, you would understand why I did what I did. If you stop long enough to think about the strategy I undertook for helping to stimulate the correction of a problem that will also help other people in the same predicament you will understand why I posted seveal times on this subject. When I was in grade three more decades ago than I care to think about we had a workbook called "Think and Do". The idea stuck and I recommend it.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154220\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I have read your posts on this thread. My reaction is that you hijacked the thread so you (1 guy) could get the book at the most internet affordable price to you. I am sure all are glad your order has been fulfilled. I look forward to comments on this thread about Jeff's work rather than the Amazon.com order process.
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I have read your posts on this thread. My reaction is that you hijacked the thread so you (1 guy) could get the book at the most internet affordable price to you. I am sure all are glad your order has been fulfilled. I look forward to comments on this thread about Jeff's work rather than the Amazon.com order process.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154461\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Nothing I wrote prevented you or anyone else from writing-in anything you or they wished on this subject. It's impossible to "hijack" a thread. The example of the problem I had is being experienced by many others and if what I did - more than you know about - will help unstick this problem for many others, it will have made a substantial contribution. The Amazon order process is important to all people - especially in Canada - who will need to have the book before they can use this thread to comment on what is inside it.
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Dear member 29,338,
I cannot be sure how long you may have observed LL forums prior to joining.
LL forums are highly respected contributions to the global conversation on photography.
Many contributors, and none more so than Mark Segal , give much of their valuable time to assist their fellow image makers. Generally they follow understood conventions of rhetoric. Alain Briot , who has a PhD in this area , might correct me on this , if I am in error.
As I see it the value of conversation is that new knowledge is derived from the the mutivalencies of thought patterns. That is, in this case, that a thread announcing a book that many members will want to read, has been difficult to obtain, and that efforts are being made to ascertain the reasons for this and to take corrective action. The solution to a specific problem often has wider implications. For better or worse , many members , throughout the world , purchase books from Amazon. It is very possible that solving this problem may facilitate an increased level of service to all.
Mark's always well reasoned and generous comments , are greatly appreciated .
His restrained and reply indicates the level of etiquette most of us wish maintained.
I note that Jeff Shewe, who started this thread and who co-authored the book has made considerable effort to act in the direction of the thread , which is, in any case, about supply , not content.
Brian Gilkes
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...about supply , not content.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154474\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Well, when people actually start getting books in their hands, I hope to answer questions about content as well. But for that, they need the books!
:~)
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Well, when people actually start getting books in their hands, I hope to answer questions about content as well. But for that, they need the books!
:~)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154480\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Jeff, Yes Indeed! It's even more self-evident than love and marriage, ain't it?
Brian, thanks for those generous comments. I appreciate it, and I would like to think that between the efforts of Jeff, Nancy Ruentzel, myself and indeed anyone else who took some time to occupy the minds at Amazon.com on this issue that it will be generally helpful to the community as a whole - not only for this book but for a string of others coming down the pike - two of which to watch out for in particular will be David Blatner's "Real World Adobe Photoshop CS3" and Katrin Eismann's new book "The Creative Digital Darkroom", both of which are available from Amazon on a pre-order basis, much as was Jeff's.
I should conclude by saying that I shall remain a customer of Amazon.com, because when their system works it is by far the least expensive and most efficient way to buy these books that I know of. It can be a great resource and they owe it to themselves and to their customers to keep it that way. I think by giving them a bit of a going-over this time around, perhaps we've been more helpful to them than they themselves may appreciate
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Well, when people actually start getting books in their hands, I hope to answer questions about content as well. But for that, they need the books!
:~)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154480\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
As recommended by another poster last week, I canceled my Amazon order placed many months ago and ordered from Peachpit. Having received the book already, I look forward to a good read over the Thanksgiving weekend!
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Well, when people actually start getting books in their hands, I hope to answer questions about content as well. But for that, they need the books!
:~)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154480\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Just FYI
I had ordered the book through Amazon and also got the e-mail one week ago about the delay. At that point I had the option to accept their new estimated delivery date, or cancel the order. I had until Dec. 14 to decide. Since the original order involved another book, which was shipped immediatly, I was in no dire rush to elevate my blood pressure over something that was out of my hands. I decided to wait and see what would happen.
Today, I was notified that it was shipped and should arrive the 23rd.
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Well, when people actually start getting books in their hands, I hope to answer questions about content as well. But for that, they need the books!
:~)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154480\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
So, then, will Michael host the official RWCR Q and A? Should there be a separate forum for this and the (warning, thinly veiled request ahead) upcoming video?
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So, then, will Michael host the official RWCR Q and A? Should there be a separate forum for this and the (warning, thinly veiled request ahead) upcoming video?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154547\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
No need for a separate forum I wouldn't think (unless Michael thinks so) and yes, there is discussion of a Camera Raw vid tut in the not too distant future...
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Well, when people actually start getting books in their hands, I hope to answer questions about content as well. But for that, they need the books!
Yip.
And an apology for the typo, Jeff
BG
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Last week, I posted that I had cancelled an Amazon order and ordered directly from Peachpit Press. They (and FedEx) came through -- book arrived today.
-- Bob D.
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In case someone's interested:
Located in Germany, I ordered Jeff's RWCR CS3 (along with two other books) via Amazon.com (U.S. site) on Nov 11th, 2007 and got an estimated shipping date of Jan 11th, 2008. Actual shipping date: Nov 20th, 2007 (i. e. yesterday); estimated delivery date: Dec 7th, 2007.
So the book was shipped almost two months earlier than initially estimated. Currently it's on its way across the Big Pond via Standard Int'l Shipment. I could have ordered it at Amazon.de but there it is still marked as "not yet released, accepting pre-orders"---and when ordering in Germany the book is more than twice as much (EUR 44 = $64 US) as when ordered in the USA ($30 US) even though it's the very same book, no German translation.
Now I hardly can wait for the book to arrive. I already have Bruce's RWCR CS2---and RWIS CS2, too---and appreciate them very much.
-- Olaf
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Hey Mark,
Mine came today. I hope yours comes soon. But it's only fair that I should get mine first, since you already know so much more about this stuff than I do. So this will give me some time to catch up.
Eric
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Hey Mark,
Mine came today. I hope yours comes soon. But it's only fair that I should get mine first, since you already know so much more about this stuff than I do. So this will give me some time to catch up.
Eric
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154751\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thanks Eric - not yet in my case. Shipped on the 18th from somewhere in the USA. It's probably stuck in some morass at the border.
Mark
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Thanks Eric - not yet in my case. Shipped on the 18th from somewhere in the USA. It's probably stuck in some morass at the border.
Mark
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154764\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I think they need to quarantine it for at least 72 hours at the border and then inspect every page for possible hidden terrorist messages.
Good luck. Go out and take some pictures while you're waiting.
Eric
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I think they need to quarantine it for at least 72 hours at the border and then inspect every page for possible hidden terrorist messages.
Good luck. Go out and take some pictures while you're waiting.
Eric
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154795\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Well, ya never know who ya can trust these days, eh?
Anyhow, I'm working down a huge back-log of image processing - will be nice to see once that book arrives what moves and combos of moves I may have been missing!
Have a good Thanksgiving Holiday.
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Update - my copy arrived this evening. I've been eagerly browsing through and reading sections of key interest as they caught my eye. Systematic reading starts tomorrow. I've seen enough to know that this book is HUGELY important. It has tremendous coverage, real technical depth, and the added bonus of chapters on Bridge, DNG and Metadata. The layout and print job are very, very good. Congratulations Jeff, and would that we could congratulate Bruce as well. I'm sure he's smiling on it from up there.
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Just FYI
I had ordered the book through Amazon and also got the e-mail one week ago about the delay. At that point I had the option to accept their new estimated delivery date, or cancel the order. I had until Dec. 14 to decide. Since the original order involved another book, which was shipped immediatly, I was in no dire rush to elevate my blood pressure over something that was out of my hands. I decided to wait and see what would happen.
Today, I was notified that it was shipped and should arrive the 23rd.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=154545\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Just an update. My copy arrived as promised this morning and I quickly thumbed through it. Having previously read Bruce's earlier editions, my initial take on this version is as if Mr. Fraser was writing through Jeff's hand. Very nicely done Jeff.
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I have posted a review of Real World Camera Raw on the Amazon.com website. You can see it here: RWCRwPSCS3-Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/review/product/0321518675/ref=pr_sims_cm_cr_acr_img?%5Fencoding=UTF8&showViewpoints=1), 3rd review.
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Picked up both RWCR and Light, Science and Magic. Haven't figured out which to read yet.