Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: canmiya on October 11, 2007, 09:53:10 AM

Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: canmiya on October 11, 2007, 09:53:10 AM
i was just checking out michael's "what's new " page and came across this:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/whatsnew/ (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/whatsnew/)
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: Dustbak on October 11, 2007, 10:16:58 AM
It has also been mentioned in another thread. I am not sure where that leaves me at the moment.

I use a CF39 and H2. I was thinking about upgrading towards multishot but will be holding of that decision until I can get some confirmation that I am not on a dead track.

I specifically went for the CF because of the adapterplate system. Now, I just wonder when Hasselblad will be leaving the CF route

I might be tempted to upgrade the whole thing towards the H3DII39MS if I can get a decent upgrade price but I have heard figures of upgrading an H3D39 to a H3D39II of over 15K USD which I find ridiculous!
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: Caracalla on October 11, 2007, 10:43:52 AM
Quote
It has also been mentioned in another thread. I am not sure where that leaves me at the moment.

I use a CF39 and H2. I was thinking about upgrading towards multishot but will be holding of that decision until I can get some confirmation that I am not on a dead track.

I specifically went for the CF because of the adapterplate system. Now, I just wonder when Hasselblad will be leaving the CF route

I might be tempted to upgrade the whole thing towards the H3DII39MS if I can get a decent upgrade price but I have heard figures of upgrading an H3D39 to a H3D39II of over 15K USD which I find ridiculous!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145315\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I was thinking of the same thing but decided to upgrade anyway to H3DII39MS only  the price tag I got quoted today for the Complete Kit is US$40,680 less the 80mm lens I already own, Delivery January 2008. If I upgrade, there is more room for comfortable price difference.

I have to say after looking at the H3DII39 model I was immpressed,
esspecialy now with MS you are basically looking at complete camera to fit any occasion.

The H3DII39/H3DII39MS back will work on Mamiya RZ67, View Cameras... perhaps locked, but compatible enough!!!
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: Dustbak on October 11, 2007, 10:47:48 AM
Excuse me!!!????? 40K USD as an ugrade from the H2CF39 to the H3D39IIMS????

I know it works on quite a few bodies but the one I really like, it will not. I will have to get another back as well.

I got the CF for the plates and possibility to upgrade to multishot. Who in his right mind is upgrading towards a dead end and upgrading to the H3blablaMS is absurd for 40K!

It is starting to feel really painful somewhere in the back.
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: cerett on October 11, 2007, 10:52:01 AM
Any thoughts on how this will impact the sale of used H1/H2's?
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: MarkKay on October 11, 2007, 10:56:19 AM
This makes me very angry.  Every few months or so Hasselblad changes their strategy on equipment that costs more than many automobiles. This is absurd.  I remember less than a year ago, the  Hasselblad  CEO stated they were going to continue the H2 line as they developed their closed H3D systems.  However, this might drive the prices of the used H2s up since there are still a lot of folks who like the non-hassy digital backs.

Quote
It has also been mentioned in another thread. I am not sure where that leaves me at the moment.

I use a CF39 and H2. I was thinking about upgrading towards multishot but will be holding of that decision until I can get some confirmation that I am not on a dead track.

I specifically went for the CF because of the adapterplate system. Now, I just wonder when Hasselblad will be leaving the CF route

I might be tempted to upgrade the whole thing towards the H3DII39MS if I can get a decent upgrade price but I have heard figures of upgrading an H3D39 to a H3D39II of over 15K USD which I find ridiculous!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145315\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: Caracalla on October 11, 2007, 10:58:56 AM
Quote
Excuse me!!!????? 40K USD as an ugrade from the H2CF39 to the H3D39IIMS????
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145321\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I mean, US$40,680 is not the upgrade but the Complete Kit. However, I already own the lens, perhaps they can replace it with HC150mm N with no additional cost.

I always negotiate the price as if I'm buying Complete Kit, after I negotiate the upgrade to see if there are any benifits to returning customers.
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: samuel_js on October 11, 2007, 12:54:16 PM
[span style=\'font-size:14pt;line-height:100%\']There's already a thread about this here:
[/span]
http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=20194 (http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=20194)



/Samuel
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: Streetshooter on October 11, 2007, 01:20:27 PM
Well I must say this comes as no surprise, it's been on the cards for a while hasn't it ? What does surprise me is the anger of those photographers who knew it was coming and still bought the H2.

Just wait until they're the last man standing, and see how much their upgrade prices are then !  Quite frankly the new Canon 1Ds 111 is looking more appealing every day.

Pete
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: Dustbak on October 11, 2007, 01:33:17 PM
It is not so just the H2, it is also the fact that Hasselblad is closing out everybody that has a Hasselblad/Imacon back that is not a H3 back.

I own a Hasselblad back but find myself soon unable to mount it on a current Hasselblad body. There are a lot of people that are in the same situation. I was just starting to enjoy using the H. I guess for my next upgrade I will be seriously considering a Sinar Hy6 multishot (unless they want to drop the adapterplate system as well).

It feels like Hasselblad is screwing over everybody including their current customer base, everybody but new owners.

I can understand people to be upset.
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: ixpressraf on October 11, 2007, 02:02:52 PM
I do not agree with this vision.
First: hasselblad is now creating the best possible DSLR in Mf. In film days you could not mount a mamiya back on a bronica and others.
The HY6 platform also is a " closed " platform just in the way the H2F seems to be.
Phase is surely re-vitalising a well know medium format system that vanished some time ago, or they are building a new one themselves ( with carl zeiss i think as CZ has no possibillities anymore to sell their lenses but has the legal rights for the contax 645 stuff.)
mamiya will soon when their ZDII wil appear also close their system: that is the only way t survive.
Second: When you do an upgrade to a new back, the body-upgrade is almost always included. So i think it is not that bad thing as many like to think.
It is a very small and competative marked in wich we have to much players at the moment and some will have to go.....
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: Dustbak on October 11, 2007, 02:12:05 PM
We will see, when Hasselblad is on the level they should provide really appealing upgrade deals.

As I said. I might be tempted to swap my CF for a H3MS but it better be a good deal since that also means giving up a system that I rapidly grew in love with (the adapter plates.).

Otherwise I wished Hasselblad would make the CF fit the H3, now that would make me really happy.
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: Streetshooter on October 11, 2007, 02:39:47 PM
Quote
I do not agree with this vision.
First: hasselblad is now creating the best possible DSLR in Mf. In film days you could not mount a mamiya back on a bronica and others.
The HY6 platform also is a " closed " platform just in the way the H2F seems to be.
Phase is surely re-vitalising a well know medium format system that vanished some time ago, or they are building a new one themselves ( with carl zeiss i think as CZ has no possibillities anymore to sell their lenses but has the legal rights for the contax 645 stuff.)
mamiya will soon when their ZDII wil appear also close their system: that is the only way t survive.
Second: When you do an upgrade to a new back, the body-upgrade is almost always included. So i think it is not that bad thing as many like to think.
It is a very small and competative marked in wich we have to much players at the moment and some will have to go.....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145354\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

In the film days you could put any film you liked in your back, why would you put another camera back on your body ? That comparison can't be made here.

Hasselblad might be " creating the best possible DSLR in MF " but that's a matter of personal opinion. What they are undoubtedly doing is creating the most expensive. As their unit sales drop the prices are going to have to rise. They can't keep screwing around with their current users, the market is not that big. They are playing a dangerous game. The way all the MF makers are behaving at the moment is bad for the MF market in general. Prospective MFDB buyers are just going to buy the latest high megapixel SLR from Nikon or Canon at a fraction of the price and still be able to use their old lenses at the same time. Irrespective of the fact they will not be getting the MF look.

Not everyone is fooled by slick marketing bull.... all the time.

Pete
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: ixpressraf on October 11, 2007, 03:00:02 PM
Quote
In the film days you could put any film you liked in your back, why would you put another camera back on your body ? That comparison can't be made here.

Hasselblad might be " creating the best possible DSLR in MF " but that's a matter of personal opinion. What they are undoubtedly doing is creating the most expensive. As their unit sales drop the prices are going to have to rise. They can't keep screwing around with their current users, the market is not that big. They are playing a dangerous game. The way all the MF makers are behaving at the moment is bad for the MF market in general. Prospective MFDB buyers are just going to buy the latest high megapixel SLR from Nikon or Canon at a fraction of the price and still be able to use their old lenses at the same time. Irrespective of the fact they will not be getting the MF look.

Not everyone is fooled by slick marketing bull.... all the time.

Pete
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145357\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You still can perfectly use all your lenses and even more when time goes by. So why all the fuss. You upgrade every 3 to 5 years so there is no reason for panic. The upgrade possibilities are perfect and backs always get better. Perhaps you can upgrade to the new Phase camera....
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: josayeruk on October 11, 2007, 03:05:48 PM
Quote
But you could put any film of choice in your back. And everytime a new film emulsion came out you could upgrade at the cost of the new film only.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145356\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Its becoming pointless to keep comparing film to digital.
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: jonstewart on October 11, 2007, 03:28:35 PM
It's very interesting, in light of the other threads where I have expressed my dislike of such a closed system, to read other responses on this thread.

At the end of the day, Hasselblad are going to lock everybody who wants to shoot Hasselblad into 1 or 2 camera bodies, 1 small range of backs, 1 set of lenses, and then dictate when you upgrade and what you upgrade to, helping you in that choice by discontinuing your current system, and therefore sending resale prices though the floor, unless, of course, you spend huge amounts of money upgrading through their 'official upgrade path'.

This would be more acceptable if they were producing a camera system which was much better than any other camera at everything... but lets face it, it's the real world, and while the product will be very good, it won't be that good.

I got the impression some people thought I was being a little cynical about Hassleblad's developments, in light of apparent marketing strategies. I wonder do they think that now?

Anyway, it's only money...but not mine!  
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: godtfred on October 11, 2007, 03:28:43 PM
Quote
But you could put any film of choice in your back. And everytime a new film emulsion came out you could upgrade at the cost of the new film only.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145356\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
How much did the (film)back maker get every time you bought some Kodak or Fuji stock? And could you "upgrade" your film back when a new technology arrived (to one that held the film flatter, maybe with that cool new vacuum technology everybody was raving about?)

On another note, I don't support the "new" strategy from Hasselblad at all. There will always be full support for open standards from my camp. It just seems I will not have that luxury (sadly.)

-axel
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: PatrikR on October 11, 2007, 04:00:11 PM
Quote
You still can perfectly use all your lenses and even more when time goes by. So why all the fuss. You upgrade every 3 to 5 years so there is no reason for panic. The upgrade possibilities are perfect and backs always get better. Perhaps you can upgrade to the new Phase camera....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145361\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I believe that Phase One is simply too strong competition and such a power player in this camera war. Now that H1 and H2 has become the vehicle for Phase Ones recent success Hasselblad is cutting Phase One off.

Hasselblad knows that H2 is currently the best platform for Phase One backs. Just forcing people to use a sync cable is a dirty enough trick to handicap H2 as a Phase One platform of choice. Phase One probably sells more H-series systems than Hasselblad currently their DSLRs and this must be a big embarassement and scare for Hasselblad. Since Phase One is still the strongest and owned by some very rich people and companies, Hasselblad can't even buy them from distorting the market. Time will tell. These are ofcourse my guesses only.

But as a H1 user I feel totally betrayed, but who cares. Just some months ago avid Hassie defenders flagged here how Phase users can still buy H2 and so on but now we see that even this is no longer an option...
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: Streetshooter on October 11, 2007, 04:13:00 PM
Quote
You still can perfectly use all your lenses and even more when time goes by. So why all the fuss. You upgrade every 3 to 5 years so there is no reason for panic. The upgrade possibilities are perfect and backs always get better. Perhaps you can upgrade to the new Phase camera....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145361\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Can you use the new 28mm with your H1/2 ?  Also why do I have to upgrade every 3/5 years ? I didn't have to with my Hassleblad V system !

Pete
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: pss on October 11, 2007, 04:18:26 PM
here is a system for everybody:
available with ALL Dbacks

2 different bodies, one smaller, handheld, one more for studio use, neither need any cable to communicate with (most of) the backs...all can still use film

unparalelled range of lenses for both bodies, older style lenses still work with sometimes limited functionality, new lenses coming out

vast system including T/S, macro,...

dirt cheap compared to other systems

full integration with existing 4x5 systems

makes and sells its own Dback at much cheaper cost then all others

anything i am missing?
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: Eurotographer on October 11, 2007, 04:44:56 PM
Quote
Can you use the new 28mm with your H1/2 ?  Also why do I have to upgrade every 3/5 years ? I didn't have to with my Hassleblad V system !

Pete
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145377\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The 28mm can't be used with the H1/H2, but it also wasn't available when most people purchased their H1/H2's and when it did become available it was made very clear that it wouldn't.  Basically the functionality of your h1/H2 has not changed in a negative way ever.  There have been many refinements to the firmware for the H system that updates all h1's, H2's and the H3D's, so to say that H1 users have been left behind is nonsense.

You do not HAVE to upgrade, what you buy today or bought 3/5 years ago works just as it always has, just because a manufacturer comes out with soethign new doesn't mean your old stuff doesn't work anymore, and unlike the 35mm DSLR's at least you do have a path that isn't paying full price.
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: Streetshooter on October 11, 2007, 04:59:53 PM
Quote
The 28mm can't be used with the H1/H2, but it also wasn't available when most people purchased their H1/H2's and when it did become available it was made very clear that it wouldn't.  Basically the functionality of your h1/H2 has not changed in a negative way ever.  There have been many refinements to the firmware for the H system that updates all h1's, H2's and the H3D's, so to say that H1 users have been left behind is nonsense.

You do not HAVE to upgrade, what you buy today or bought 3/5 years ago works just as it always has, just because a manufacturer comes out with soethign new doesn't mean your old stuff doesn't work anymore, and unlike the 35mm DSLR's at least you do have a path that isn't paying full price.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145383\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Despite your reasoned arguments once again Hasselblad have upset more of their customers - me not included.

My contention is that Medium Format Digital needs as many customers as it can get and Hasselblad is going the right way to putting people off. Thank heavens for Mamiya is all I can say. A new DSLR is still cheaper than an upgrade to a new digital back !

Pete
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: samuel_js on October 11, 2007, 05:13:22 PM
Quote
You do not HAVE to upgrade, what you buy today or bought 3/5 years ago works just as it always has, just because a manufacturer comes out with soethign new doesn't mean your old stuff doesn't work anymore, and unlike the 35mm DSLR's at least you do have a path that isn't paying full price.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145383\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

This is no 100% true. If my H2 body breaks  there's no replacement from my dealer. Yes, an used one but do you know how much do they cost on Ebay? 4000 Euro or something? Just insane. You can buy a mamiya body for 500 € or a contax for about 800 on Ebay, but a Hasselblad H? Just no way...

All I can say is that my H2 arrived for one month ago. I've had H1, Contax 645, Mamiya AFDII and at least I decided to go with the H series again. WRONG DECISION!!
Ohh yes, Hasselblad is putting me off...
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: Eurotographer on October 11, 2007, 05:22:22 PM
Quote
This is no 100% true. If my H2 body breaks  there's no replacement from my dealer. Yes, an used one but do you know how much do they cost on Ebay? 4000 Euro or something? Just insane. You can buy a mamiya body for 500 € or a contax for about 800 on Ebay, but a Hasselblad H? Just no way...

All I can say is that my H2 arrived for one month ago. I've had H1, Contax 645, Mamiya AFDII and at least I decided to go with the H series again. WRONG DECISION!!
Ohh yes, Hasselblad is putting me off...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145390\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hasselblad has said they will continue to repair H series for at least 7 years.  You can still get an old V series repaired as well, seems they stand behind their products pretty well.  Too bad you bought the Contax, how do you get a new replacement for that now??
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: pss on October 11, 2007, 05:58:48 PM
Quote
Basically the functionality of your h1/H2 has not changed in a negative way ever.  There have been many refinements to the firmware for the H system that updates all h1's, H2's and the H3D's, so to say that H1 users have been left behind is nonsense.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145383\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

of course the functionality has changed with this announcement...your H1 and 2 you bought 2 months ago is obsolete for any other future back other then hasselblad...actually for those as well...do you really think that phase leaf or sinar will make their next back in a H mount?

defending hasselblads desicion from a financial and market position standpoint i up for debate and future will tell it it was the right one for them..... but saying that after todays announcement that H1 and 2 owners aren't left out in the rain is just crazy...sorry...

the writing was on the wall....anyone who bought a H camera to use with a non hasselblad back in the last year had their blinders on....
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: jpjespersen on October 11, 2007, 06:01:35 PM
Quote
Hasselblad has said they will continue to repair H series for at least 7 years.  You can still get an old V series repaired as well, seems they stand behind their products pretty well.  Too bad you bought the Contax, how do you get a new replacement for that now??
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145392\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Maybe this will teach prospective hasselblad users and current owners that their trusted company only cares about the financial bottom line, not the customer- IMO.  
I was considering Hasselblad until they released the H3D with lenses that only worked with the H3D and Hasselblad backs.
I ended up going with Phase one and a Mamiya system, hoping to upgrade to the Rollei HY6 when it becomes available.
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: Streetshooter on October 11, 2007, 06:19:12 PM
Quote
Hasselblad has said they will continue to repair H series for at least 7 years.  You can still get an old V series repaired as well, seems they stand behind their products pretty well.  Too bad you bought the Contax, how do you get a new replacement for that now??
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145392\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Anybody would think you worked for Hasselblad !  I wonder.......

Pete
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: hubell on October 11, 2007, 06:29:09 PM
Quote
Maybe this will teach prospective hasselblad users and current owners that their trusted company only cares about the financial bottom line, not the customer- IMO. 
I was considering Hasselblad until they released the H3D with lenses that only worked with the H3D and Hasselblad backs.
I ended up going with Phase one and a Mamiya system, hoping to upgrade to the Rollei HY6 when it becomes available.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145401\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

My guess is that you were only considering the Hasselblad H series as a platform for a Phase back; a Hasselblad back was never on the radar screen. And, that's exactly why Hasselblad did what it did. They apparently made a strategic business decision that they could not prosper in the future as a camera maker selling cameras and lenses for use with Phase and Leaf backs, while trying to compete with Canon. Becoming Contax or Mamiya was not acceptable. Who knows if the decision will pay off for Hasselblad. For end users, we may all wish that things were different in an ideal world. You could have an H platform that worked with all H lenses and all digital backs. Others could have a completely integrated Hasselblad product of camera, lenses and back that worked seamlessly with the Hasselblad software. However, assume that ideal world is off the table and the choice is between a market in which we have an H3D that works as a seamless package with new lenses, accesories and software or, alternatively, a market in which Hasselblad goes under and becomes a new version of Contax. Which alternative do you prefer? Is it so clear to you that the latter alternative is preferable for us as end users?
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: jpjespersen on October 11, 2007, 06:34:33 PM
No actually I was greatly considering a Hasselblad back only. but when I saw that they screwed over their H2D users I took this as a hint that maybe one day they might do it again.

Quote
My guess is that you were only considering the Hasselblad H series as a platform for a Phase back; a Hasselblad back was never on the radar screen.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145406\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: hubell on October 11, 2007, 06:53:18 PM
Quote
No actually I was greatly considering a Hasselblad back only. but when I saw that they screwed over their H2D users I took this as a hint that maybe one day they might do it again.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145408\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Did they screw over the H2D users? I though they were given a very favorable upgrade path to an H3D. (In contrast to the H3D owners who have to pay $15K to upgrade to an H3DII.)
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: jpjespersen on October 11, 2007, 06:58:04 PM
Quote
Did they screw over the H2D users? I though they were given a very favorable upgrade path to an H3D. (In contrast to the H3D owners who have to pay $15K to upgrade to an H3DII.)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145411\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Yes,  In my opinion.
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: Gary Ferguson on October 11, 2007, 07:01:04 PM
What's the implications for Phase One?

And if a photographer wants a detachable back to use on a technical camera as well as on a medium format camera can the detachable back from the H3D be used witha technical camera?
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: Photomangreg on October 11, 2007, 07:20:33 PM
Quote
What's the implications for Phase One?

And if a photographer wants a detachable back to use on a technical camera as well as on a medium format camera can the detachable back from the H3D be used witha technical camera?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145414\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


The back on an H3D can be removed and used on anything that will accept an H mount.
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: Mark_Tucker on October 11, 2007, 08:14:02 PM
Quote
The back on an H3D can be removed and used on anything that will accept an H mount.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145418\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Just to drive the point home, can we now not assume that the H4D will be Uni-Body Construction, like the Canon? Isn't it headed that way?
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: Nick-T on October 11, 2007, 10:01:22 PM
Quote
No actually I was greatly considering a Hasselblad back only. but when I saw that they screwed over their H2D users I took this as a hint that maybe one day they might do it again.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145408\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I'm sorry but what a load of rubbish.. H2D owners were offered upgrades to the H3D for 1000 euros or in many cases at no charge.

I do wish people would get their facts straight THEN start bashing Hasselblad.

Nick-T
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: Nick-T on October 11, 2007, 10:05:25 PM
Quote
Maybe this will teach prospective hasselblad users and current owners that their trusted company only cares about the financial bottom line, not the customer- IMO. 
I was considering Hasselblad until they released the H3D with lenses that only worked with the H3D and Hasselblad backs.
I ended up going with Phase one and a Mamiya system, hoping to upgrade to the Rollei HY6 when it becomes available.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145401\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Yeah apparently the Hy6 is completely open.. you can put any back on it (Phase, megavision, Bigshot etc) and their unique mounting system means you will be able to put ANY lens on the Camera. Also you will be able to take a Leaf Afi back and put it on a Sinar badged Hy6..

Nick-T
[span style=\'font-size:14pt;line-height:100%\']PLEASE NOTE THE ABOVE POST MAY CONTAIN TRACES OF SARCASM[/span]
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: pss on October 11, 2007, 10:18:17 PM
Quote
Yeah apparently the Hy6 is completely open.. you can put any back on it (Phase, megavision, Bigshot etc) and their unique mounting system means you will be able to put ANY lens on the Camera. Also you will be able to take a Leaf Afi back and put it on a Sinar badged Hy6..

Nick-T
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145440\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

a camera can only let backs get mounted on it...and most backs in circulation today have camera specific mounts, so the idea that the Hy6 will all of a sudden magically morph to accept all backs is ridiculous.....i think you should get your arguments straight before bashing people here....who by the way seem to have made the correct choice for their needs...even if they did not know why at the time....
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: nicolaasdb on October 11, 2007, 10:31:19 PM
I never liked the H2 camera anyways.....used it on 3 jobs and had problems on 2 of them...lens didn't connect, and other stupid issues.

So I am glad I decided for the Mamiya 645AFDII..works like a charm and never has any other problems than empty batteries (and AA's are available everywhere!) and as an added benifit I can use the same back on my other Mamiya 67 as well....if I need to shoot over 125
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: clayh on October 11, 2007, 10:35:58 PM
Well, I feel the perfect fool. I just got a new H2 and P45+ a few months ago. So now I have an orphaned camera. Thank goodness some of the view camera adapters can take an H mount. But the whole point of the Phase/Blad combo was that they were integrated and talked to one another electronically. So I guess it is a good thing that I am very happy with what this system does today, but hoping for any future firmware improvements to the camera is not terribly realistic.

Standing back from this a little bit, I'll bet that the people at Phase One are going to have some serious discussions over the next few days. This announcement leaves them with very few full MF system camera options at the moment.

Anyone know how easy it is to get phase to change the mount on a P45 to another system like the Mamiya?


Quote
a camera can only let backs get mounted on it...and most backs in circulation today have camera specific mounts, so the idea that the Hy6 will all of a sudden magically morph to accept all backs is ridiculous.....i think you should get your arguments straight before bashing people here....who by the way seem to have made the correct choice for their needs...even if they did not know why at the time....
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Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: AndreNapier on October 11, 2007, 10:41:18 PM
The quote I received a year ago was $2500 and it was about 4 weeks wait.
However I believe that with Phase you have an option to change the mount in the first year. I am just relying on my memory. Do not hold me to the last part.
Andre
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: ErikKaffehr on October 12, 2007, 12:37:53 AM
Quote
mamiya will soon when their ZDII wil appear also close their system: that is the only way t survive.


Hi!

I don't think so. Mamiya is going to sell a lot of cameras and lenses to photographers having third party digital backs. It may not be a high profit business, tough.

I think that the ZD backs and cameras are a low cost alternative to high end backs. If Mamiya would build a closed system it would need to compete head on with Hasselblad and compete on price. Keeping the system open makes them an alternative to Hasselblad.

Erik
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: thsinar on October 12, 2007, 03:14:40 AM
Dear Nick,

I noticed those "traces of sarcasm". Sorry to use this tread, but I have to correct.

The Hy6 is as open as it has been annouced, not more but also not less. There is no reason to mention "Bigshot", "Megavison", or whatsover. Why doing this? This is simply BS, sorry.

NO, you will not be able to put any lens, like on ANY MF camera BUT, you will be able to mount at least all exisiting Schneider 6008 AF or non-AF and 6008 Zeiss lenses, as well as the new Schneider AFD lenses, totally at least 21 lenses.

And there is no trace of sarcasm in my post.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote
Yeah apparently the Hy6 is completely open.. you can put any back on it (Phase, megavision, Bigshot etc) and their unique mounting system means you will be able to put ANY lens on the Camera. Also you will be able to take a Leaf Afi back and put it on a Sinar badged Hy6..

Nick-T
[span style=\'font-size:14pt;line-height:100%\']PLEASE NOTE THE ABOVE POST MAY CONTAIN TRACES OF SARCASM[/span]
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Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: samuel_js on October 12, 2007, 09:46:58 AM
All this is unofficial until Hasselblad announces it anyway isn't it? Is there any official source the confirm these news?
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: hubell on October 12, 2007, 10:50:33 AM
Quote
Dear Nick,

I noticed those "traces of sarcasm". Sorry to use this tread, but I have to correct.

The Hy6 is as open as it has been annouced, not more but also not less. There is no reason to mention "Bigshot", "Megavison", or whatsover. Why doing this? This is simply BS, sorry.

NO, you will not be able to put any lens, like on ANY MF camera BUT, you will be able to mount at least all exisiting Schneider 6008 AF or non-AF and 6008 Zeiss lenses, as well as the new Schneider AFD lenses, totally at least 21 lenses.

And there is no trace of sarcasm in my post.

Best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145472\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thierry:
Instead of focusing on the tone of Nick's message, why not answer, without double-speak, how the Hy6 is more or less "open" than the new Hasselblad H2F that allows  third party backs to be mounted on the camera and connected through a cable, with no ability for the back to directly interface with the camera's firmware? Perhaps I missed it, but I do not recall you ever saying that Phase backs cannot directly interface with the firmware of the Hy6 and a cable connection would be necessary IF Phase ever made a back with a mount to fit the Hy6.
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: thsinar on October 12, 2007, 11:20:23 AM
Dear hcubell,

I'm just trying to put things the right way, since they were not excatly. And am not hiding about adaptations on the Hy6. However, you really missed it, since it has been said and explained by myself at least 10 times on LL, and by some others involved.

But I have no problem to repeat it: Phase One IS NOT part of the Hy6 project, by no means, neither  technical, nor financial or elses. Sinar, as a back manufacturer, will not make any adaptation for third-party backs, only for its owns digital back models. As I said it many times, for the rest, it is up to Phase to communicate, not Sinar. I think I cannot be clearer as that, and that is the information I have.

Thanks and best regards,
Thierry

Quote
Thierry:
Instead of focusing on the tone of Nick's message, why not answer, without double-speak, how the Hy6 is more or less "open" than the new Hasselblad H2F that allows  third party backs to be mounted on the camera and connected through a cable, with no ability for the back to directly interface with the camera's firmware? Perhaps I missed it, but I do not recall you ever saying that Phase backs cannot directly interface with the firmware of the Hy6 and a cable connection would be necessary IF Phase ever made a back with a mount to fit the Hy6.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145516\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: jpjespersen on October 12, 2007, 11:22:21 AM
However don't forget about the Rollei Hy6, which phase will have a back for.
Quote
Dear hcubell,

I'm just trying to put things the right way, since they were not excatly. And am not hiding about adaptations on the Hy6. However, you really missed it, since it has been said and explained by myself at least 10 times on LL, and by some others involved.

But I have no problem to repeat it: Phase One IS NOT part of the Hy6 project, by no means, neither  technical, nor financial or elses. Sinar, as a back manufacturer, will not make any adaptation for third-party backs, only for its owns digital back models. As I said it many times, for the rest, it is up to Phase to communicate, not Sinar. I think I cannot be clearer as that, and that is the information I have.

Thanks and best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145522\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: LA30 on October 12, 2007, 11:42:39 AM
Anyone that thinks that this is a crap discussion please call

Hasselblad USA Inc. -Digital & Scanner service center
15209 NE 95th Street
Redmond, WA 98052
USA
Phone number +1-800-367-6434.

Talk to the Tech department and ask them about it.  I spoke to a tech last night and he had no knowledge of this, he kind of chuckled actually........He then called me back 3 minutes later apologizing stating that the cameras will be repaired for 7 years and they the new bodies will take a 3rd party back via a cable.  I told him that cables break and stink to shoot with handheld, oh and I need 3 of them when I go on location.  I bet they are $200 each, hahahahahah.  Not funny.

Call them for yourself if you have a doubt.

Great!...........going to get a second H2 body....................

Ken
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: SeanBK on October 12, 2007, 12:03:06 PM
Quote
Dear hcubell,

I'm just trying to put things the right way....... Phase One IS NOT part of the Hy6 project, by no means, neither  technical, nor financial or elses. Sinar, as a back manufacturer, will not make any adaptation for third-party backs, only for its owns digital back models. As I said it many times, for the rest, it is up to Phase to communicate, not Sinar. I think I cannot be clearer as that, and that is the information I have.

Thanks and best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145522\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
 May be I am just dumb old guy. If you substitute "Hasselblad" for "Sinar" in Thierry's statement, than that would/IS Hasselblad's current rumoured statement. I retired early from my very successful creative busines & pursued the Photographic field, but this business model IS what every successful business strives to achieve. If guys/customers got napping than it is their fault, don't blame Phase or Hasselblad. Writing was on the wall, when Phase did not pursue earlier this year to come up with their brand name, along with Leaf, Sinar, mamiya.. Obviously Phase knows something that we are not privy to why they are not pursuing to hook up with a camera manufacture? Usually very vocal @ Hasselblad's mistep & virtues of Phase, may be "Super M" should step out behind the curtain & tell us what Phase One's plans are, as he is so closely associated with them. This certainly would help all of us to "stop flying around like bunch of monkeys".  
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: hubell on October 12, 2007, 12:17:05 PM
Quote
Dear hcubell,

I'm just trying to put things the right way, since they were not excatly. And am not hiding about adaptations on the Hy6. However, you really missed it, since it has been said and explained by myself at least 10 times on LL, and by some others involved.

But I have no problem to repeat it: Phase One IS NOT part of the Hy6 project, by no means, neither  technical, nor financial or elses. Sinar, as a back manufacturer, will not make any adaptation for third-party backs, only for its owns digital back models. As I said it many times, for the rest, it is up to Phase to communicate, not Sinar. I think I cannot be clearer as that, and that is the information I have.

Thanks and best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145522\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Why is it so difficult to directly answer the question I asked without double-speak? I did not ask if Phase was "part of the project". I asked if the Sinar Hy6 was any more "open" to third party backs than the new H2F. And then you wonder why there is so much cynicism about the way the Hy6 is being marketed. Please take a look at the press release from Direct Source Marketing, which is marketing worldwide what everyone perceives  to be the exact same camera as the Sinar Hy6. The press release states that the Rolleiflex Hy6 is an open system that will accomadate digital backs from all manufacturers. Really? Do the adapters exist? Do you need a cable  to sync? Will the backs interface with the firmware? Your statements here have implied  that it was up to Phase to decide whether it wanted to build an adapter for its backs to fit the Sinar Hy6. That's all it took, and the Phase back would then work just as it would on an H2 or Mamiya AFDII.
The people on this forum are generally quite smart. If they keep asking the same question, it's because it is not being answered well.
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: Graham Mitchell on October 12, 2007, 01:39:00 PM
Quote
Why is it so difficult to directly answer the question I asked without double-speak?

Thierry works for, and writes on behalf of Sinar. Why do people keep expecting him to answer questions on behalf of other companies?
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: hubell on October 12, 2007, 02:31:44 PM
The question was about the Sinar Hy6. Now is it possible to provide an answer to whether the Sinar Hy6 is any more "open" to the use of Phase backs than the H2F?
I would also add that it is disingenuous to say that Thierry only speaks for Sinar and therefore cannot comment on how open or closed the Rollei and Leaf Hy6 cameras are. I believe that the parent company of Sinar has legal control over the decisions as to which digital backs will be allowed to connect directly with the firmware of all Hy6 cameras.
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: KAP on October 12, 2007, 02:53:22 PM
Quote from: ixpressraf,Oct 11 2007, 07:02 PM
I do not agree with this vision.
First: hasselblad is now creating the best possible DSLR in Mf. In film days you could not mount a mamiya back on a bronica and others.

Not for me it isn't, it only has 1/800th of a second top speed, the new Hy6/Leaf looks much better and you can get Zeiss lenses. There would be less to complain with the H series if it wasn't so exspensive for a quality that can be had for much less.

Kevin.
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: mcfoto on October 12, 2007, 04:04:58 PM
Hi
The way it is shaping up is that Hasselblad is going there own way, a closed loop system. No 28mm & now you have to use a cable with the H2F. It is there business & they can do what they like.

The Hy6 platform is for Sinar & Leaf.

Mamiya is open including there new 28 mm lens. The ZD camera is there only closed system but that is a true DSLR in MF. The AFDII accepts Phase, Sinar, Leaf, ZD & Imacon. Plus there is the RZ digital body.

Here in Sydney L&P is the agent for Phase One & Mamiya.
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: jpjespersen on October 12, 2007, 04:25:35 PM
Why does everyone seem to ignore the fact that Rollei also has a Hy6 coming and there are already people shooting with the Rollei Hy6 and Phase backs.  Please don't just say Hy6 anymore, distinguish between Sinar/Leaf and Rollei.

Quote
Hi
The way it is shaping up is that Hasselblad is going there own way, a closed loop system. No 28mm & now you have to use a cable with the H2F. It is there business & they can do what they like.

The Hy6 platform is for Sinar & Leaf.

Mamiya is open including there new 28 mm lens. The ZD camera is there only closed system but that is a true DSLR in MF. The AFDII accepts Phase, Sinar, Leaf, ZD & Imacon. Plus there is the RZ digital body.

Here in Sydney L&P is the agent for Phase One & Mamiya.
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Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: cerett on October 12, 2007, 04:29:48 PM
I am somewhat puzzled by all this hysteria/anger. For right now, I plan on using and enjoying my H2/P45 and not worrying about the next year or two. The system works quite well and meets my needs. Service will be available for seven years. The way this business changes, who knows what technological marvels lie ahead.

I am not thrilled with Hasselblad's decision, but I see no reason to change or be concerned with anything right now as long as I have a well functioning system that yields excellent results.

The issues are far more problematic for people considering an initial investment in MF digital or changing systems because they are unhappy with their current set-up.
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: thsinar on October 12, 2007, 04:50:52 PM
Would you please show respect for the answers I am giving here? That would be highly appreciated, instead of being focused on what means "open" or not and showing so much hysteria. It is at a stage where it starts to be ridiculous and I am not ready to play this game.

Thanks for your understanding and best regards,
Thierry

Quote
The question was about the Sinar Hy6. Now is it possible to provide an answer to whether the Sinar Hy6 is any more "open" to the use of Phase backs than the H2F?
I would also add that it is disingenuous to say that Thierry only speaks for Sinar and therefore cannot comment on how open or closed the Rollei and Leaf Hy6 cameras are. I believe that the parent company of Sinar has legal control over the decisions as to which digital backs will be allowed to connect directly with the firmware of all Hy6 cameras.
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Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: thsinar on October 12, 2007, 05:00:40 PM
Do simply ask DSM, if such has been said by them: they certainly have a contact number and should be ready to give more details. I am not in position to answer this.

Edited for ADDENDUM:

- quote "The press release states that the Rolleiflex Hy6 is an open system that will accomodate digital backs from all manufacturers": can you please provide your source/document stating this (digital backs from all manufacturers)?

Thanks and best regards,
Thierry

Quote
Why is it so difficult to directly answer the question I asked without double-speak? I did not ask if Phase was "part of the project". I asked if the Sinar Hy6 was any more "open" to third party backs than the new H2F. And then you wonder why there is so much cynicism about the way the Hy6 is being marketed. Please take a look at the press release from Direct Source Marketing, which is marketing worldwide what everyone perceives  to be the exact same camera as the Sinar Hy6. The press release states that the Rolleiflex Hy6 is an open system that will accomadate digital backs from all manufacturers. Really? Do the adapters exist? Do you need a cable  to sync? Will the backs interface with the firmware? Your statements here have implied  that it was up to Phase to decide whether it wanted to build an adapter for its backs to fit the Sinar Hy6. That's all it took, and the Phase back would then work just as it would on an H2 or Mamiya AFDII.
The people on this forum are generally quite smart. If they keep asking the same question, it's because it is not being answered well.
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Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: jpjespersen on October 12, 2007, 05:38:08 PM
It is being done by testers associated with the companies.  This is all I can say.
Quote
Where is this happening? Do you have a source that you can share?
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Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: Steve Kerman on October 12, 2007, 05:44:20 PM
Quote
... companies.
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That says a great deal right there.
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: jpjespersen on October 12, 2007, 05:52:04 PM
What does this mean. You do spell companies ies.
Quote
That says a great deal right there.
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Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: Steve Kerman on October 12, 2007, 06:01:10 PM
Quote
What does this mean. You do spell companies ies.
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That was not a comment about your spelling.  

If "the companies", plural, are testing this configuration, then Rollie/F&H must be actively participating in the development of a Phase/Hy6 configuration.
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: hubell on October 12, 2007, 06:45:12 PM
Quote
Would you please show respect for the answers I am giving here? That would be highly appreciated, instead of being focused on what means "open" or not and showing so much hysteria. It is at a stage where it starts to be ridiculous and I am not ready to play this game.

Thanks for your understanding and best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145584\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

This reminds  of what it is like trying to pin down a politician at a press conference when he keeps providing an answer to a question other than the one he was asked, and then when pushed, he complains that the questioner is being "disrespectful."
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: Steve Kerman on October 12, 2007, 06:52:32 PM
Quote
This reminds  of what it is like trying to pin down a politician at a press conference when he keeps providing an answer to a question other than the one he was asked, and then when pushed, he complains that the questioner is being "disrespectful."
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145605\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hcubell, Thierry is doing us a service by posting here with a great deal of inside information about what's happening at Sinar.  There are things that are inappropriate for him to talk about as a representative of Sinar.  Please don't drive him away by mistreating him for refusing to discuss things that would bring him into conflict with his position at Sinar.
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: samuel_js on October 12, 2007, 07:33:50 PM
Quote
It is being done by testers associated with the companies.  This is all I can say.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145591\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

How is this possible if the Rollei Hy6 won't be distributed or sold in Europe or USA?
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: jpjespersen on October 12, 2007, 07:36:11 PM
That is not what I have heard.  I have heard that it will be available next year, and the Phase back will rollei mount will be available when Phase releases the full new version of C1 sometime next year.
Quote
How is this possible if the Rollei Hy6 won't be distributed or sold in Europe or USA?
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Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: Mark_Tucker on October 12, 2007, 08:38:04 PM
This guy doesn't seem too troubled by Hasselblad. Why -- because he's out shooting pictures, and exploring the country, and living life, instead of worrying about whether he's got the latest/greatest gear. You think he gives one shit about the latest firmware?

http://www.syewilliams.com/sye/lightroom_sye.html (http://www.syewilliams.com/sye/lightroom_sye.html)

This is a loving, gentle Public Service Announcement, about staying tuned to what's important.
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: Graham Mitchell on October 12, 2007, 09:02:22 PM
So what are you doing in here, Mark?
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: hubell on October 12, 2007, 11:00:40 PM
Quote
Hcubell, Thierry is doing us a service by posting here with a great deal of inside information about what's happening at Sinar.  There are things that are inappropriate for him to talk about as a representative of Sinar.  Please don't drive him away by mistreating him for refusing to discuss things that would bring him into conflict with his position at Sinar.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145607\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Did you ever hear the expression: "Hi, I'm from the Government and I'm here to help you"?
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: SeanBK on October 12, 2007, 11:02:42 PM
Quote
This guy doesn't seem too troubled by Hasselblad. Why -- because he's out shooting pictures, and exploring the country, and living life, instead of worrying about whether he's got the latest/greatest gear. You think he gives one shit about the latest firmware?

http://www.syewilliams.com/sye/lightroom_sye.html (http://www.syewilliams.com/sye/lightroom_sye.html)

This is a loving, gentle Public Service Announcement, about staying tuned to what's important.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145627\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
 Thanks Mark, That is exactly what is needed. It is just a tool, so use it. Appreciate the link.  
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: Nick_T on October 13, 2007, 02:50:23 AM
Quote
Dear Nick,

I noticed those "traces of sarcasm". Sorry to use this tread, but I have to correct.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145472\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I would like to apologise to Thierry if I have caused any offense.

 Thierry has my greatest respect and IMO does a fantastic job explaining the fairly complicated (to my mind) Hy6 in it's many variants on this forum.

I truly hope that the Hy6 in whatever incarnation will succeed and give Hasselblad a solid competitor, and that when the product launches people will not be as quick to attack Sinar/Leaf/F&H as they have Hasselblad.

Nick-T
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: thsinar on October 13, 2007, 04:51:49 AM
Sinar is in nothing "associated" with "this". It would be appreciated not to spread rumours involving companies without reliable sources.

Thanks for your understanding and best regards,
Thierry

Quote
It is being done by testers associated with the companies.  This is all I can say.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145591\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: thsinar on October 13, 2007, 05:05:14 AM
Dear hcubell,

I am very patient, and I think I have shown this patience here. But I can't accept being insulted that way. I do not feel needing to be pin downed, as I have been clear and concise about this issue since the begin of this year.

I did ask for respect of my answers as such and only, as by opposition to my person ("show respect for my answers"). There is a slight difference.

You were saying yourself that people here are smart, therefore I guess that  most of them can understand what I am saying and do respect it as such.

But I will repeat it once again: Sinar will not manufacture an adapter for third-party backs (understand Phase One and Hasselblad). Now, to be more clear if this does not give sufficient indications: a Phase One back (as well as a Hasselblad back) will therefore not have a communication with the body if mounted on a Sinar hy6 (provided that there is such an adapter).

I can unfortunately not speak in the name of Leaf, but am ready to go as far as saying that Leaf would probably say the same.

As for F&H (or DSM), I am not entitled to speak in their name, and responses should be given by them directly. We cannot be responsible for their publications, claims and statements, provided that those have been made.

I hope this puts a final point to this issue as far as I am concerned.

Thanks for your understanding and best regards,
Thierry

Quote
This reminds  of what it is like trying to pin down a politician at a press conference when he keeps providing an answer to a question other than the one he was asked, and then when pushed, he complains that the questioner is being "disrespectful."
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145605\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: thsinar on October 13, 2007, 05:06:36 AM
Thanks Steve, good sense is much appreciated.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote
Hcubell, Thierry is doing us a service by posting here with a great deal of inside information about what's happening at Sinar.  There are things that are inappropriate for him to talk about as a representative of Sinar.  Please don't drive him away by mistreating him for refusing to discuss things that would bring him into conflict with his position at Sinar.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145607\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: thsinar on October 13, 2007, 05:09:01 AM
Could you extrapolate what is meant with this? I cannot follow your thoughts.

Thierry

Quote
Did you ever hear the expression: "Hi, I'm from the Government and I'm here to help you"?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145644\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: thsinar on October 13, 2007, 05:15:47 AM
There was no offence here, Nick.

I do hope like you that this new Hy6 camera is not criticized or the people speaking about it being "attacked" the way it is sometimes done. As much it does bother me concerning Sinar, it does also bother me concerning Hasselblad, when done in an unfair way.

Best regards,
Thierry

Edited for ADDENDUM: as a side-note, I feel sorry to hijack this tread starting and concerning primarily Hasselblad and their recent announcements.

Quote
I would like to apologise to Thierry if I have caused any offense.

 Thierry has my greatest respect and IMO does a fantastic job explaining the fairly complicated (to my mind) Hy6 in it's many variants on this forum.

I truly hope that the Hy6 in whatever incarnation will succeed and give Hasselblad a solid competitor, and that when the product launches people will not be as quick to attack Sinar/Leaf/F&H as they have Hasselblad.

Nick-T
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145668\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: hubell on October 13, 2007, 08:25:28 AM
Quote
Dear hcubell,

I am very patient, and I think I have shown this patience here. But I can't accept being insulted that way. I do not feel needing to be pin downed, as I have been clear and concise about this issue since the begin of this year.

But I will repeat it once again: Sinar will not manufacture an adapter for third-party backs (understand Phase One and Hasselblad). Now, to be more clear if this does not give sufficient indications: a Phase One back (as well as a Hasselblad back) will therefore not have a communication with the body if mounted on a Sinar hy6 (provided that there is such an adapter).

I can unfortunately not speak in the name of Leaf, but am ready to go as far as saying that Leaf would probably say the same.

As for F&H (or DSM), I am not entitled to speak in their name, and responses should be given by them directly. We cannot be responsible for their publications, claims and statements, provided that those have been made.

Thanks for your understanding and best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145681\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thierry:
If Sinar/Jenoptic(which for practical purposes are one and the same company)have legal control over the decision as to which MFDBs can electronically communicate with Hy6 cameras from Rollei, Sinar and Leaf, I do not feel it is candid to suggest that Rollei and Leaf are in control of those decisions and I should look to their statements on the subject. Moreover, the continuing confusion over this issue, fueled now by DSM's statements, is really bad for Sinar's efforts to market its version of the Hy6. DSM is creating the impression in the marketplace that it is offering a variant of the Hy6 that will be fully compatible with Phase backs.

You are perfectly free to decline to answer any question, and that I will "respect." However, I think it is unfair to accuse me of being "disrespectful" if you do provide an answer that is not responsive  to my question and I ask for you to try again.  This is an internet forum in which you are trying to sell cameras/backs, not a monarchy. [G]

BTW, your statement above about the lack of electronic communication between a Sinar Hy6 and a Phase back does clarify that that the Sinar Hy6 will provide the same, limited functionality  as a Hasselblad H2F with a Phase back(i.e., if Phase ever makes an adapter for a Sinar Hy6).
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: rainer_v on October 13, 2007, 09:14:54 AM
Quote
BTW, your statement above about the lack of electronic communication between a Sinar Hy6 and a Phase back does clarify that that the Sinar Hy6 will provide the same, limited functionality  as a Hasselblad H2F with a Phase back(i.e., if Phase ever makes an adapter for a Sinar Hy6).
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145695\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
at least the HY will be full compatible with two back makers ,not just with one. would be the same than the h2f would be fully compatible- without cables - to e.g. phase and imacon or leaf and imacon or sinar and imacon.
second: the hassy problem and anger for many is that they already have bought themself for good money in the H1/2 system and are looked out from the 28mm or other possible inventions which work only with the h3, and the h3 seems indeed to be closed totally except for imacon.
so i think the HY concept is much more open than the H concept, although not for all back makers at the same extent.
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: Dustbak on October 13, 2007, 09:36:18 AM
Quote
at least the HY will be full compatible with two back makers ,not just with one. would be the same than the h2f would be fully compatible- without cables - to e.g. phase and imacon or leaf and imacon or sinar and imacon.
second: the hassy problem and anger for many is that they already have bought themself for good money in the H1/2 system and are looked out from the 28mm or other possible inventions which work only with the h3, and the h3 seems indeed to be closed totally except for imacon.
so i think the HY concept is much more open than the H concept, although not for all back makers at the same extent.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145702\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


It is also closed for Imacon. It is only open for H3 backs. Many current Hasselblad/Imacon back owners have been closed out from the H system.

Still waiting for an answer from Hasselblad on what my options with the H2/CF39 are when I want to upgrade to multishot.

Meanwhile I just bought another older Multishot back so I have multishot until I decide where to go next.
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: bart alexander on October 13, 2007, 12:15:01 PM
Thanks for sharing Mark.
Great stuff. About half as cool as yours  
The Hasselblad must be a left over of his fashion era. A 5D would have done perfectly for his (mmmh most) stuff.


Quote
This guy doesn't seem too troubled by Hasselblad. Why -- because he's out shooting pictures, and exploring the country, and living life, instead of worrying about whether he's got the latest/greatest gear. You think he gives one shit about the latest firmware?

http://www.syewilliams.com/sye/lightroom_sye.html (http://www.syewilliams.com/sye/lightroom_sye.html)

This is a loving, gentle Public Service Announcement, about staying tuned to what's important.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145627\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: Mark_Tucker on October 13, 2007, 12:36:32 PM
Quote
Thanks for sharing Mark.
Great stuff. About half as cool as yours   
The Hasselblad must be a left over of his fashion era. A 5D would have done perfectly for his (mmmh most) stuff.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=145721\")

I shoot for money, and I shoot for personal. I do both. You've got to do both to maintain balance and keep the spark alive.

I am forced to keep up with this Tech Mess just like the next guy who shoots for money. I do not employ a full time Tech. If I don't keep up with the infinite amount of Daily Details That Might Bite You In The Ass, I risk getting in trouble on a job.

By the same token, this Tech Mess can totally get way out of hand, and can start to consume your (my) life. Every now and then, I just lose it, and want to unload it all, and go back to shooting 665 negs and clearing them in a bucket. Sometimes, your hands just need to touch something organic. You can't live your entire life engulfed in zeroes and ones, and firmware, and color profiles. It will snuff the spark.

I really love that Quicktime movie that that guy posted. It's great how it's not one of those Grab My Crotch, Look How Cool I Am type things that you see more and more lately. I won't name any names. I'd drink a beer with that Sye guy any time. Here's another very good editorial shooter -- I guarantee you her version of "firmware" is having a travel case that's hard enough so that her old-time cameras don't get dented. It's about the vision, not the gear.

[a href=\"http://www.cassbird.com]http://www.cassbird.com[/url]

Check out her Polaroid Book -- just try to get THAT kind of quality out of these forty thousand dollar digital cameras. I dare you.
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: izaack on October 13, 2007, 12:44:27 PM
Quote
This guy doesn't seem too troubled by Hasselblad. Why -- because he's out shooting pictures, and exploring the country, and living life, instead of worrying about whether he's got the latest/greatest gear. You think he gives one shit about the latest firmware?

http://www.syewilliams.com/sye/lightroom_sye.html (http://www.syewilliams.com/sye/lightroom_sye.html)

This is a loving, gentle Public Service Announcement, about staying tuned to what's important.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145627\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Seems to me that he'd have done just as well, if not better, with a Canon 1DM3, 1DsM3, 5D or a Nikon D2Xs or D3.

Ain't matter none what kinda of format he has in his purty little hands. Sheeiit! Them some mighty fine pitchures, I says.
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: thsinar on October 13, 2007, 02:06:53 PM
Dear hcubell,

Once again: I have no prerogative and absolutely no right  to speak in the name of Leaf, of F&H, of DSM or any other company than the one I am representing here, namely Sinar AG Switzerland, and this whatever are the agreements and/or contracts signed by the parties involved. I did nowhere say or suggest that those companies are in control of decisions, but that I do not wish and cannot speak for them. I simply ask here not being distorted in what I am writing and saying. Please do understand this situation and respect it as such.

Then, I wish to say it again, I have not accused you of being disrespectful of my person, but asked for respect of my answers given to you. Which in other words can be translated by "showing consideration and thoughtfulness in relation to my answers". I think I have the right to ask for this and that it is not at all agressive wording used against you.

And, my purpose is not being here to try to sell cameras, believe me. My sole reason to be here since nearly 1 year ago, is solely to try to give the right and accurate information to people in need of it, AND to correct misinformation and rumours spread by some others, with purpose or not. That is my main concern, nothing else.

Finally, if that is what you wanted to "prove", that the Sinar Hy6 does not provide more than the H2F, than you have now the information, and there is no need to continue this discussion any further.

Thank you and best regards,
Thierry

Quote
Thierry:
If Sinar/Jenoptic(which for practical purposes are one and the same company)have legal control over the decision as to which MFDBs can electronically communicate with Hy6 cameras from Rollei, Sinar and Leaf, I do not feel it is candid to suggest that Rollei and Leaf are in control of those decisions and I should look to their statements on the subject. Moreover, the continuing confusion over this issue, fueled now by DSM's statements, is really bad for Sinar's efforts to market its version of the Hy6. DSM is creating the impression in the marketplace that it is offering a variant of the Hy6 that will be fully compatible with Phase backs.

You are perfectly free to decline to answer any question, and that I will "respect." However, I think it is unfair to accuse me of being "disrespectful" if you do provide an answer that is not responsive  to my question and I ask for you to try again.  This is an internet forum in which you are trying to sell cameras/backs, not a monarchy. [G]

BTW, your statement above about the lack of electronic communication between a Sinar Hy6 and a Phase back does clarify that that the Sinar Hy6 will provide the same, limited functionality  as a Hasselblad H2F with a Phase back(i.e., if Phase ever makes an adapter for a Sinar Hy6).
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Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: eronald on October 13, 2007, 02:17:14 PM
Quote
Seems to me that he'd have done just as well, if not better, with a Canon 1DM3, 1DsM3, 5D or a Nikon D2Xs or D3.

Ain't matter none what kinda of format he has in his purty little hands. Sheeiit! Them some mighty fine pitchures, I says.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145725\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well, this has certainly been worth looking at ...

Edmund
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: H1/A75 Guy on October 13, 2007, 05:59:19 PM
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Well, this has certainly been worth looking at ...

Edmund
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145742\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Speaking about worth looking at.. It would be neat if LEAF looked at the beautiful LCD on the back of the H3DII. What a wonderful LCD, even in bright sunlight! For $30kUS it's a great camera, and very light. Too bad no Dalsa sensor.

David
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: izaack on October 14, 2007, 04:29:23 AM
Quote
Speaking about worth looking at.. It would be neat if LEAF looked at the beautiful LCD on the back of the H3DII. What a wonderful LCD, even in bright sunlight! For $30kUS it's a great camera, and very light. Too bad no Dalsa sensor.

David
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145778\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Leaf should be looking at the gobsmackingly beautiful one on the back of the Nikon D300 and ask itself how is it Nikon can squeeze that into a camera costing below $2000.00 and it can't. Mamma!
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: TechTalk on October 14, 2007, 09:59:36 PM
For those that read the "What's New" article regarding the H2 and H2F, I'd like to correct one bit of misinformation. The article stated: "Therefore anyone who currently owns an H series Hasselblad and a medium format back from another manufacturer will not be able to buy a new body in future, in the event their current H1 or H2 fails, which will mean having to abandon their back."

This is obviously not true. Anyone with an "H" mount digital back can use that back on the H2F with a sync cable. Using a sync cable seems far less drastic to me than "having to abandon their back".

More fact and less emotion would be a good thing in reporting news.
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: MarkKay on October 14, 2007, 10:05:02 PM
Does anyone know the specs on the H2F? Has this information been released?  How will it be different than the current H2 other than the need for the sync cable

Quote
For those that read the "What's New" article regarding the H2 and H2F, I'd like to correct one bit of misinformation. The article stated: "Therefore anyone who currently owns an H series Hasselblad and a medium format back from another manufacturer will not be able to buy a new body in future, in the event their current H1 or H2 fails, which will mean having to abandon their back."

This is obviously not true. Anyone with an "H" mount digital back can use that back on the H2F with a sync cable. Using a sync cable seems far less drastic to me than "having to abandon their back".

More fact and less emotion would be a good thing in reporting news.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146038\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: samuel_js on October 15, 2007, 07:45:40 AM
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Does anyone know the specs on the H2F? Has this information been released?  How will it be different than the current H2 other than the need for the sync cable
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146039\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The sync cable means A LOT! For exemple no data transfered from the lens or body to the back. No exif data or picture properties.
And in the H2F... No histogram, no info about battery time, remaining shots. No ISO info... ...
If my H2 breaks I see very difficult to dowgrade to a H2F. If replacements weren't avaible I think I'd change system.
I think maybe Michael has been a little "warm", but he's right. If my h2 is now discontinued I don't see the point of buying another hasselblad to hang my PhaseOne. Actually, even being 20% cheaper the H2F would cost me more than my H2 because of a great deal from my dealer.  And I'm not paying more to "downgrade". So my options would be to go H3D or to change direction with PhaseOne.

But if the H2 is dead then it's dead. I won't buy another dead system.
Right now I will go with the H2/P21 because I consider it the best MF camera in the market. I'm actually happy that I can afford it so I won't complain. If it breaks I hope it can be repaired and if not, well then will see.
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: michael on October 15, 2007, 09:06:09 AM
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Using a sync cable seems far less drastic to me than "having to abandon their back".

More fact and less emotion would be a good thing in reporting news.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146038\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

We'll, a cable is simply not a viable alternative, as has been well pointed out by Samuel-js. To accuse me of "misinformation" based on this is a bit over the top, don't you think? Apparently not.

One can always find an argument to counter another. But when that argument flies in the face of real-world needs its use rings hollow.

Why not just accept the fact that for some people with non-Hasselblad medium format backs that system has now become a dead end? If that's what Hasselblad wants to do, then they will eventually realize the consequences, one way or the other. But let's not posture and pretend that the emperor isn't stark naked. He most definitely is.

Michael
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: Dustbak on October 15, 2007, 10:21:19 AM
Quote
We'll, a cable is simply not a viable alternative, as has been well pointed out by Samuel-js. To accuse me of "misinformation" based on this is a bit over the top, don't you think? Apparently not.

One can always find an argument to counter another. But when that argument flies in the face of real-world needs its use rings hollow.

Why not just accept the fact that for some people with non-Hasselblad medium format backs that system has now become a dead end? If that's what Hasselblad wants to do, then they will eventually realize the consequences, one way or the other. But let's not posture and pretend that the emperor isn't stark naked. He most definitely is.

Michael
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146090\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Sorry to fall into repetition here but it is not just non-Hasselblad backs. It is also every other Imacon/Hasselblad back with the exeption of H3 backs.
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: clayh on October 15, 2007, 10:22:41 AM
I agree, and really think that Hasselblad may be shooting themselves in the foot with this move. I hope that Phase One is looking at another comparable MF system to get aligned with.

Quote
Why not just accept the fact that for some people with non-Hasselblad medium format backs that system has now become a dead end? If that's what Hasselblad wants to do, then they will eventually realize the consequences, one way or the other. But let's not posture and pretend that the emperor isn't stark naked. He most definitely is.

Michael
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146090\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: Morgan_Moore on October 15, 2007, 11:02:41 AM
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We'll, a cable is simply not a viable alternative[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146090\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

It think it will be not too much of a killer.

someone can make a rigid cable of exactly the right lenth with bends in all the right places

they  could even cast some form of shell for it

I take in it is from the PC socket on the side of the H to the bottom of the back

very different from lens cables which are a PITA

S
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: pprachun on October 15, 2007, 12:19:10 PM
Personally, I wish Hassy would physically meld the body and back --
just like my Canon 1Ds; although I would admit that sensor cleaning
might be a challenge. But, maybe the sensor wouldn't get as dirty?

Secondly, I'm waiting for my H3DII-39 to replace my H3D-39. I also
trade in my cars every 2-3 years; I'm always looking for newer
technology, even though at times it's not always better! I've never
expected to be able to use the engine, or the radio, or the seats from
the older vehicle for the newer.

I prefer an integrated united product rather than a mix & match
approach. That's possibly related to working with radiology equipment
for 30 years and seeing the long-term results of the mix & match
approach. I've shot with an H1+Phase P45: it functioned but was a
veritable PITA.

As someone said, "The market will dictate the outcome.", or something
to that effect.
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: bart alexander on October 15, 2007, 04:04:30 PM
Quote
I shoot for money, and I shoot for personal. I do both. You've got to do both to maintain balance and keep the spark alive.

I am forced to keep up with this Tech Mess just like the next guy who shoots for money. I do not employ a full time Tech. If I don't keep up with the infinite amount of Daily Details That Might Bite You In The Ass, I risk getting in trouble on a job.

By the same token, this Tech Mess can totally get way out of hand, and can start to consume your (my) life. Every now and then, I just lose it, and want to unload it all, and go back to shooting 665 negs and clearing them in a bucket. Sometimes, your hands just need to touch something organic. You can't live your entire life engulfed in zeroes and ones, and firmware, and color profiles. It will snuff the spark.

I really love that Quicktime movie that that guy posted. It's great how it's not one of those Grab My Crotch, Look How Cool I Am type things that you see more and more lately. I won't name any names. I'd drink a beer with that Sye guy any time. Here's another very good editorial shooter -- I guarantee you her version of "firmware" is having a travel case that's hard enough so that her old-time cameras don't get dented. It's about the vision, not the gear.

http://www.cassbird.com (http://www.cassbird.com)

Check out her Polaroid Book -- just try to get THAT kind of quality out of these forty thousand dollar digital cameras. I dare you.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145724\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Cass really rocks. Very natural and inspiring stuff. Thanks for sharing the url. She shows really well how simple photography can be done. No nonsense about resolution and or the "right" focuspoint. Photography as I like it.
Too bad a high profile photographer needs to keep up with what's less, to stay in business. Guess not all clients know what reak quality is about. But hey, what else is new. Can't wait to see a 16mp 5D show up and be done with the whole tech ratrace  
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: TechTalk on October 15, 2007, 08:19:21 PM
Quote
We'll, a cable is simply not a viable alternative, as has been well pointed out by Samuel-js. To accuse me of "misinformation" based on this is a bit over the top, don't you think? Apparently not.

One can always find an argument to counter another. But when that argument flies in the face of real-world needs its use rings hollow.

Why not just accept the fact that for some people with non-Hasselblad medium format backs that system has now become a dead end? If that's what Hasselblad wants to do, then they will eventually realize the consequences, one way or the other. But let's not posture and pretend that the emperor isn't stark naked. He most definitely is.

Michael
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146090\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
1) "We'll, a cable is simply not a viable alternative, as has been well pointed out by Samuel-js." Not a viable alternative?? Then using the back on a view camera with a Copal shutter is not a viable alternative? Don't people with Phase One and Leaf backs do that? You're obviously giving up some convenience features in where and how information is displayed or transferred and triggering the back with a cable on the H2F, but that does not prevent you from taking pictures with exactly the same image quality as before and seems far more reasonable, in my personal view, than telling people that they are "having to abandon their back". You're advising users to "abandon their back" rather than face the trauma of connecting a sync cable and making great looking images? Lets compare the options, abandon your digital back or connect a sync cable–I'm happy to allow the reader to decide which seems to be the more reasoned option.

2) "To accuse me of "misinformation" based on this is a bit over the top, don't you think? Apparently not." No, I think telling people that they must "abandon their back" is a bit over the top–don't you think? Obviously not, as you appear to believe that this is the only course of action.

You could have replied, "O.K, you don't really have to abandon your back. It still works with a cable, but I'm extremely unhappy with the loss of features with the replacement of the H2 with the H2F and I think it's an outrageous move by Hasselblad!" It is not my place, of course, to tell you what you should or shouldn't say, I'm just giving an example of what "could" be said that would at least be accurate, while still expressing a strong opinion. We can all say whatever we like, but I for one appreciate accuracy. So please let me repeat for those that still might believe otherwise, you do NOT have to "abandon your back" if you replace an H2 with an H2F, but you do have to give up some features. You do have a choice, what you decide is up to you.

3) "Why not just accept the fact that for some people with non-Hasselblad medium format backs that system has now become a dead end? If that's what Hasselblad wants to do, then they will eventually realize the consequences, one way or the other. But let's not posture and pretend that the emperor isn't stark naked. He most definitely is." I agree with your first sentence. For some people, Hasselblad's direction is a dead end. They are obviously headed in the direction of making integrated camera and back systems and away from the money losing proposition of  selling medium-format cameras to integrate with other products. No doubt about it.

I disagree that the emperor is naked. He's still wearing his underwear. Had Hasselblad discontinued the H2 with no replacement at all, that would be "stark naked" in my view. But then others have more vivid imaginations than I do.

4) Let me thank you for providing a forum for people to discuss and debate and even disagree on these topics. I should further say, that while we disagree and from my perspective the statement that I quoted and made a big fuss about is misinformation, I respect you as an individual and as a person (with strong views), while strongly disagreeing with your choice of words.
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: John Camp on October 15, 2007, 11:37:52 PM
Hey, Thierry,

I've seen ads for the HY6 in some magazines, but when are they actually going to come out? I thought they were supposed to be here a long time ago. (I don't keep track of this stuff, so this is an honest question.) Is there a firm date for shipping?

JC
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: thsinar on October 15, 2007, 11:52:38 PM
Dear John,

we have started shipment of the first 9 units to some of our distributors. Production is in its starting phase and will reach full capacity in a few weeks. We anyway plan to deliver more units in the coming and following weeks.

This means that depending where you are located, you might be able see the Sinar Hy6 or not. There will obviously be at least 2 units at the Photo Plus starting this 18th of October.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote
Hey, Thierry,

I've seen ads for the HY6 in some magazines, but when are they actually going to come out? I thought they were supposed to be here a long time ago. (I don't keep track of this stuff, so this is an honest question.) Is there a firm date for shipping?

JC
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146265\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: BernardLanguillier on October 15, 2007, 11:56:12 PM
Quote
1) "We'll, a cable is simply not a viable alternative, as has been well pointed out by Samuel-js." Not a viable alternative?? Then using the back on a view camera with a Copal shutter is not a viable alternative? Don't people with Phase One and Leaf backs do that? You're obviously giving up some convenience features in where and how information is displayed or transferred and triggering the back with a cable on the H2F, but that does not prevent you from taking pictures with exactly the same image quality as before and seems far more reasonable, in my personal view, than telling people that they are "having to abandon their back". You're advising users to "abandon their back" rather than face the trauma of connecting a sync cable and making great looking images? Lets compare the options, abandon your digital back or connect a sync cable–I'm happy to allow the reader to decide which seems to be the more reasoned option.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146227\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

It boils down to shooting styles.

For quick shooters used to working with a DSLR, the very idea that the ISO setting of the back will not be taken into account by the metering system of the body makes the whole thing look like it is unusable.

For those still used to shooting with 4x5, this is pretty much a non issue.

What would personnally prevent me from investing in the H system today (I am a previous H1 user) is the lack of support of their 28 mm lens for cameras other than the H3D. This is a complete/total/absolute show stopper for anyone trying to shoot landscape IMHO.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: ErikKaffehr on October 16, 2007, 12:58:20 AM
Hi,

"But let's not posture and pretend that the emperor isn't stark naked."

No he is naked, but got a big gun...

Erik
Quote
We'll, a cable is simply not a viable alternative, as has been well pointed out by Samuel-js. To accuse me of "misinformation" based on this is a bit over the top, don't you think? Apparently not.

One can always find an argument to counter another. But when that argument flies in the face of real-world needs its use rings hollow.

Why not just accept the fact that for some people with non-Hasselblad medium format backs that system has now become a dead end? If that's what Hasselblad wants to do, then they will eventually realize the consequences, one way or the other. But let's not posture and pretend that the emperor isn't stark naked. He most definitely is.

Michael
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Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: paulhu on October 16, 2007, 08:48:49 AM
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What would personnally prevent me from investing in the H system today (I am a previous H1 user) is the lack of support of their 28 mm lens for cameras other than the H3D. This is a complete/total/absolute show stopper for anyone trying to shoot landscape IMHO.

Cheers,
Bernard
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What happend to the days before 28mm lens was available?  Do photographers just don't shoot landscape, or do they use the 35mm?  Just my $0.02
Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: eleanorbrown on October 16, 2007, 10:25:08 AM
Thierry, do you have any detailed specs on the Hy6---measurements, weight, weight with 45 or 90 degree finder, etc.  Thanks, Eleanor



"we have started shipment of the first 9 units to some of our distributors. Production is in its starting phase and will reach full capacity in a few weeks. We anyway plan to deliver more units in the coming and following weeks.

This means that depending where you are located, you might be able see the Sinar Hy6 or not. There will obviously be at least 2 units at the Photo Plus starting this 18th of October."

Best regards,
Thierry
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Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: thsinar on October 16, 2007, 10:48:38 AM
Dear Eleanor,

Yes, I have a document with all the technical data, specs, etc ..., although without the weight of the 45° & 90° finders.

I will PM it to you, for not misusing this tread which does not "belong" to me.

Thanks and best regards,
Thierry

Quote
Thierry, do you have any detailed specs on the Hy6---measurements, weight, weight with 45 or 90 degree finder, etc.  Thanks, Eleanor

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Title: H'blad drops the other shoe...
Post by: rainer_v on October 16, 2007, 08:50:16 PM
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1) "We'll, a cable is simply not a viable alternative, as has been well pointed out by Samuel-js." Not a viable alternative?? Then using the back on a view camera with a Copal shutter is not a viable alternative? Don't people with Phase One and Leaf backs do that? You're obviously giving up some convenience features in where and how information is displayed or transferred and triggering the back with a cable on the H2F, but that does not prevent you from taking pictures with exactly the same image quality as before and seems far more reasonable, in my personal view, than telling people that they are "having to abandon their back". You're advising users to "abandon their back" rather than face the trauma of connecting a sync cable and making great looking images? Lets compare the options, abandon your digital back or connect a sync cable–I'm happy to allow the reader to decide which seems to be the more reasoned option.

its a differnet thing to use a view camera and a fixed mf camera. meanwhile it does not bother me at all to use a cable with my gottschalt, because the use of such a camera implies a quiet and slow way of shooting, in contrary it bothered me a lot when formerly i used my backs with old hasselblad 500 backs ( i already had them ),  i had to use them with sync cables. this was simply not comparable than using my backs later ( after changing the back-adapter ) with the contax 645, which is coupled with electronic information, although not 100%. but at least no sync cable is needed and iso settings are reflected in the metering.