Luminous Landscape Forum

Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: Min on October 09, 2007, 12:40:57 PM

Title: 3100 Woes
Post by: Min on October 09, 2007, 12:40:57 PM
Ive been using Hahnemuhle Photo Rag 308 for a while with my Z3100 with no problems. Now suddenly Im getting roller marks...from the rollers positioned just before the printheads. Called HP to discuss and was told that unless it occurs on an HP paper, they wont service it.

Buyers beware.

Has anyone had a similar experience?

Im printing a very broad black area, night sky, and thats where the marks are visible. I had another job 4 weeks ago - very similar with nights skies too...no problems then.

Another question...can i adjust how much ink is laid down on the paper?

Epson has a dialog box for that, ink limits i think....but I cant figure out how to do it with my 3100. I also seem to remember theres a way to adjust ink using photoshop...dotgain?

please...anyone...whats a girl to do...

min    
Title: 3100 Woes
Post by: rdonson on October 09, 2007, 12:52:59 PM
Tell HP you're using HP Hahnemühle Smooth Fine Art Paper 310 gsm and see what they say about the marks.

Quote
Another question...can i adjust how much ink is laid down on the paper?
There is no inkload adjustment in the HP drivers like there is in the Epson.  This is controlled by the selection of paper type.
Title: 3100 Woes
Post by: Charles Gast on October 09, 2007, 01:21:46 PM
You may need to clean the rollers. The starwheels are after the heads so if it is coming from the pre-head rollers you may benefit from cleaning them
Title: 3100 Woes
Post by: tomrock on October 09, 2007, 05:05:32 PM
I have a package of Hahnemuhle sitting right here and under the "Printing on the paper" section it says -- "After several sheets have been printed, transporting problems can arise due to the slight build-up of coating material, which can be easily removed by feeding a standard uncoated sheet through the printer."

Maybe that's the issue?
Title: 3100 Woes
Post by: Colorwave on October 09, 2007, 06:58:39 PM
I'm getting pretty frustrated with the paper transport on the Z3100 too.  

I had starwheel roller marks on the roll of paper that came with the printer, the Instant Dry Gloss, but didn't like the paper so figured that it was no big loss.  

Then I had issues with the HP Professional Satin Photo Paper having marks that were thought to be from the starwheels, but ultimately were from the transport rollers that grab the paper.  After replacing the starwheels, we discovered that the marks were coming from too much tension as it pulled the paper off of the roll in back.  Solution:  pull a bunch of paper off of the roll before each print.  PITA.

Now, I'm doing extremely prosaic printing, creating custom PMS color wrapping paper for a TV commercial using thin paper called HP Heavyweight Coated.  It seems to have a different issue.  The paper is getting ripples from the transport rollers that cause it to buckle just upstream of the head path.  I can see a raised ripple before the ink hits it, so it is not an ink load issue.  Because of the lump, I'm getting head strikes that leave the telltale zebra pattern.  The problem is intermittent and completely unpredictable, but very annoying.  

I love my printer when it works, but really think I would not buy another one unless there are significant changes in the paper transport system.  I'd love to run the new Harmon Baryta paper, but understand that it looks awful with roller marks when it passes through the Z3100.  The list of papers that are compatible with this printer is much smaller than Epson and Canon's, and it totally negates the selling point of APS if I can only run a handful of papers successfully.

Frustrated too,
Ron H.


[attachment=3529:attachment]
Title: 3100 Woes
Post by: Min on October 10, 2007, 10:35:49 AM
"Tell HP you're using HP Hahnemühle Smooth Fine Art Paper 310 gsm and see what they say about the marks."

When HP told me it had to happen on HP paper i told them they had to send me a roll of 42" (aargh its irritating their paper is only 42") and they obliged with a sample roll... should come today...but didnt think to tell them to be sure to send me the 310 gms. Friends and colleges here, DC area, say that HP will request I send them my test if I claim it happens on the HP paper.


"You may need to clean the rollers. The starwheels are after the heads so if it is coming from the pre-head rollers you may benefit from cleaning them"

It is the pre- head rollers...and I told HP that. But when they told me it was more than likely a hardware issue they didnt say anything about cleaning them, i think they are assuming its the star wheel assembly because they have had a lot of issues with it and it shows they weren't really listening...I find that astounding.


"I have a package of Hahnemuhle sitting right here and under the "Printing on the paper" section it says -- "After several sheets have been printed, transporting problems can arise due to the slight build-up of coating material, which can be easily removed by feeding a standard uncoated sheet through the printer."

This I will do this evening... or maybe I'll do it after I run HPs paper. If this works I wonder if HP wil ever think to sell cleaning sheets?


Ron H. - Have you spoken to HP about your rippled HP paper?

Since I was one of the 'first kids on the block' around here to have this machine there are many observing my progress... when i first had it and produced great prints they all wanted one.... now they are all just waiting for Epson to catch up before they buy.


"I love my printer when it works"

i've said the exact thing! Its a fine machine but unreliable and unpredictable, and who can make money with such a thing. I wont even go into the unbelivable software issues i've had. When i told HP about those they said they couldnt help and it was a Dell problem. So, what, now I have to buy an HP box to run my HP paper only HP printer?! Are they next going to require that I tattoo HPs logo on my... sorry....

thanks for the suggestions and support!

min
Title: 3100 Woes
Post by: rdonson on October 10, 2007, 10:56:03 AM
My 24" Z3100 has been a very reliable printer on a number of papers.  That said, I don't make my living printing with it so I'm sure you have an entirely different perspective.  

That last firmware/software update was a bit of a challenge and I hope that's why they're taking so long to release version 6.  I hope its a trouble free install.
Title: 3100 Woes
Post by: f64digital on October 13, 2007, 01:01:06 PM
Quote
"Tell HP you're using HP Hahnemühle Smooth Fine Art Paper 310 gsm and see what they say about the marks."

When HP told me it had to happen on HP paper i told them they had to send me a roll of 42" (aargh its irritating their paper is only 42") and they obliged with a sample roll... should come today...but didnt think to tell them to be sure to send me the 310 gms. Friends and colleges here, DC area, say that HP will request I send them my test if I claim it happens on the HP paper.
"You may need to clean the rollers. The starwheels are after the heads so if it is coming from the pre-head rollers you may benefit from cleaning them"

It is the pre- head rollers...and I told HP that. But when they told me it was more than likely a hardware issue they didnt say anything about cleaning them, i think they are assuming its the star wheel assembly because they have had a lot of issues with it and it shows they weren't really listening...I find that astounding.
"I have a package of Hahnemuhle sitting right here and under the "Printing on the paper" section it says -- "After several sheets have been printed, transporting problems can arise due to the slight build-up of coating material, which can be easily removed by feeding a standard uncoated sheet through the printer."

This I will do this evening... or maybe I'll do it after I run HPs paper. If this works I wonder if HP wil ever think to sell cleaning sheets?
Ron H. - Have you spoken to HP about your rippled HP paper?

Since I was one of the 'first kids on the block' around here to have this machine there are many observing my progress... when i first had it and produced great prints they all wanted one.... now they are all just waiting for Epson to catch up before they buy.
"I love my printer when it works"

i've said the exact thing! Its a fine machine but unreliable and unpredictable, and who can make money with such a thing. I wont even go into the unbelivable software issues i've had. When i told HP about those they said they couldnt help and it was a Dell problem. So, what, now I have to buy an HP box to run my HP paper only HP printer?! Are they next going to require that I tattoo HPs logo on my... sorry....

thanks for the suggestions and support!

min
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145093\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

This problem is HP's known issue. I have reported this problem to HP aboyt six months ago. The problem is the hard surface and excesive pressure of the puntch rolls, or transport rolls. I had the same problem on the same papers. The marks have nothing to do with the in limit, nor dirty surfaces (I cleaned the rolls with isoprophylic alcohol, and still the same problem, and had marks also with new transport rolls)

HP changed my transport rolls, but did not solve the problem. I reported it again and they said that the problem was the high relative humidity conditions in the Canary Islands, so they could not solve the problem. It is very important to print on HP hahnemühle papers.

I also owm an Epson7800, and never had this problem with any papers I used, even with third party papers, so I sent prints form the Z3100 and the Epson7800 to HP in Madrid... and two of them were printed on de HP Hahnemühle Smooth Fine Art paper. I told them that I dindn't understand why epson could print with no roller marks and HP could not on its own branded paper with no marks.

It is possible to print on Fibre-based glossy papers with no marks puttin some tape on the rollers, but I still had the marks on the smooth fine art paper...

The onlly solution that HP gave me was the "buy back option"... the HP has gone to HP France last week, and we are wating the money back from HP soon.

We are planning to buy another Epson as preplacement for the Z3100 44''. Will have problems on ink swapp if wy buy a 9880, or will have to pay a lot more to buy a 11880...

HP has done it right, they buyed this machine back, but I preffered they solved the problems with the marks. I think than on some conditions, specially living near the coast with high humidity, this machine thoes not work because is very agressive with the delicate surface of ther art papers....


The Z series need a lot of improvements... HP Barcelona has done it too fast... yes the HP Vivera claims 200 years, but... this inks have an extremelly poor scratch resistance compared to the K3 inks, Z2100 and Z3100 leave roll marks with high humidity conditions, and leave star wheel marks with low humidity conditions....


My English is not very good sorry.

Carlos E.
www.f64digital.com[attachment=3549:attachment]
Title: 3100 Woes
Post by: dandeliondigital on October 13, 2007, 05:16:10 PM
Quote
Called HP to discuss and was told that unless it occurs on an HP paper, they wont service it.

Buyers beware.

Has anyone had a similar experience?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=144845\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi,
I've gotten roller marks too. After running well over 20 different types of media through the printer I got around to trying the sample roll of HP Premium ID Instant Dry Glossy that came with the machine. I got roller marks that made the prints unacceptable. That shocked me because...

1) This paper was included as a sampler
2) Performance was unacceptable. Not just subtle but awful.
3) HP had no comments or interest in solving that one for me. (I have spent the better part of over 10 hours with HP tech on the phone regarding mainly other issues. They are clever).
4) I printed on a different day with a twist and got results that were fine on ID Glossy. I printed successfully on the ID Glossy by reprinting a job that had originally been printed on canvas and used canvas settings (if said settings are remembered in the file---I am guessing they are. Does anyone know for sure?) I tried to get clarification from HP Support but they would not comment.

So then I was ready for doing some exhibition style photo prints (not on RC type paper). So I wanted to try some papers that would lend themselves to B&W photos. Sad to report that on all Fiber Gloss RAG type photo papers I've tried, I've gotten bad marks. (Fiber RAG Glossy F-type surface papers - all that I have tried--3 different brands--LexJet-Innova-Moab). The paper litterally gets crushed by the rollers. HP Support - No response.

They held out hope for me with the firmware update (I have the Z3100ps GP version of the printer). I am waiting for delivery anytime between SEP>DEC, they said.

This threads interests me because it so shocking! Buy Back Program? Wow! This is big news? Xtreme~!

BTW, good photo f64 of how it looks in real life.

I like that comment..."I love my printer when it works." All I can say is "Me too."

It has been a grueling 4.5 months so far. Never boring and never less than challenging.

I just posted a thread RE: HP APS Error Help Needed, so if you know anything about HP APS please look into it. Thanks.

So long for now, TOM
Title: 3100 Woes
Post by: Roscolo on October 13, 2007, 09:12:28 PM
for f64digital

What is the climate like in your printing area? Do you have air conditioning? Seems putting the printer in a room with an AC unit or dehumidifier would solve the excess humidity that appears to be the cause of your problem.

I'm in the deep South of the United States. We have near tropical humidity here in the summer, but I have my printer in a sealed room and I haven't had these problems. The AC was almost always on on hot, humid days.
Title: 3100 Woes
Post by: Min on October 13, 2007, 10:30:48 PM
I was wondering about humidity too. I printed a job a month ago on hahnemuhle photo rag 308...the photos were of the wash dc monuments at night, very large areas of black and the prints were beautiful. a month later i go to print another job, more dc mons at night, big black areas, same paper, printer ink profiles etc, but then these horrible roller marks appear. The only diff was the humidity...it was very high a week ago when the problem started. I got the humidity in the room down to 55%...dont know where it was before that, i just cranked up the ac. but it didnt help the situation at all.

HP talked with me about it the marks but never asked about the humidity and i didnt volunteer. They literally said i was out of luck if the marks didnt appear on the HP hahnemuhle...said they would send me some but when i called back to ask if it had been shipped they said they cant send me paper so they wont send me paper unless i buy it. i had choice words for them.

so i bought it. and had the marks on it too (thank goodness!) although they arent as bad, but still unacceptable. the 'problem' paper is 308 gms and the hp paper is 310 gms with not a huge diff in thickness. i ran the hp paper with the profile i generated with for the problem paper and the marks were far worse...seems like a pressure problem.

i my opinion, if you cant get anywhere with a tech on the phone ask to speak with a supervisor...it worked with my battle with Alienware over a malfunctioning laptop and with HP (sorta)

I have an HP tech coming on monday.

what is ideal humidity? my friend who works at the national gallery doing all the digital magic there has the humidity at 50%...of course they are using all epsons.

so glad to hear that a buy back program maybe out there somewhere.

min
Title: 3100 Woes
Post by: Min on October 13, 2007, 10:38:22 PM
the photo from carlos is exactly what im getting.

min
Title: 3100 Woes
Post by: Colorwave on October 13, 2007, 10:51:21 PM
Since transport marks seem to be the number one issue with this printer we really need to keep enough heat on HP that they address this problem for this model, not the next Z iteration.  I know that it is quite different, but Adobe just caved in to the groundswell of negative feedback and reverted their forums to the old version, so user feedback can get results sometimes.  

I think that as many calls to tech support as you can stomach and continued reporting and exchange of information on forums is our only hope of keeping this issue on the front burner for HP.

-Ron H.
Title: 3100 Woes
Post by: f64digital on October 14, 2007, 03:55:22 AM
Quote
for f64digital

What is the climate like in your printing area? Do you have air conditioning? Seems putting the printer in a room with an AC unit or dehumidifier would solve the excess humidity that appears to be the cause of your problem.

I'm in the deep South of the United States. We have near tropical humidity here in the summer, but I have my printer in a sealed room and I haven't had these problems. The AC was almost always on on hot, humid days.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145795\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The relative humidity is between 35-65 %. Sometimes higher, sometimes lower... The temperature is about 22 ºC all year. I think the problem could be solved with an AC on all the time... too wastefull isn't it?.

The rolls of paper were stored on a separate room always inside their bags.

Nevertheless I have to say that I haven't had this roller marks with the epson.

Carlos E
Title: 3100 Woes
Post by: f64digital on October 14, 2007, 04:01:38 AM
Quote
Since transport marks seem to be the number one issue with this printer we really need to keep enough heat on HP that they address this problem for this model, not the next Z iteration.  I know that it is quite different, but Adobe just caved in to the groundswell of negative feedback and reverted their forums to the old version, so user feedback can get results sometimes. 

I think that as many calls to tech support as you can stomach and continued reporting and exchange of information on forums is our only hope of keeping this issue on the front burner for HP.

-Ron H.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145811\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I think they couls solve this problem easy... redesigning the rollers with a soft surface, and lower the pressure of the springs used to pressure the paper.

When I was talking to one of the HP technicians in Madrid, they told me that they tried to do this in Barcelona, but had problems with thin papers as normal paper for cad. They told me that the most of their market are CAD-clients and they mostly use thin paper....

Carlos E.
www.f64digital.com
Title: 3100 Woes
Post by: Rob C on October 14, 2007, 06:29:07 AM
Carlos E

I live in the Baleares where the humidity is very high too. I have the smaller B9180 fromm HP, and do not find your sort of problem  (yet - tocando madera) with papers. I use Hahnemuehle Photo Rag Bright White 310gsm.

I didn´t know which built-in profile to use with it, so I contacted Hahnemuehle and downloaded their profile for the HP printer and this paper: it was terrible, and produced what looked like banding. So, I used the built-in profile for HP Smooth Fine Art and it works well enough without any sign of banding.

The black/white prints from this printer are superb, and I speak with professional experience of printing my own b/w in a wet darkroom since 57´or so. I find the use of Jessops Heavyweight Photo Matt 230gsm gives lovely prints with this machine. I don´t think this paper is available in Spain - I have a neighbour bring it out from the UK - and it is manufactured in Germany by I don´t know whom. The only reason I do not use it for everything is that only the Hahne paper appears to have a long-life guarantee...

Don´t worry about your use of English - if only my Spanish were half as good!

Hasta luego

Rob C

Edit: I would remark that it takes Hahne papers a longish while to dry properly and to reveal their final colours. Printed one day, I find it is possibly two days later before colour seems settled. This COULD be due to high humidity... makes printing a frustratingly long process.
Title: 3100 Woes
Post by: uaiomex on October 14, 2007, 08:24:20 PM
I live in the Yucatan peninsula. It can get any more humid than here during the rainy season. Nontheless, my 7600 it's been flawless for 4 years. Sometimes the printer goes without use up for 3 weeks, No clogs after a rutine clean.
No marks, no dings, no banding , no issues.
Too bad Epson-Mexico is a distasteful joke.
Nice try for HP, but I guess they have to go back to the drawing board.
I'll keep my 7600 till Epson comes with a 24" model that does both blacks.
Vivid magenta... my butt!

Eduardo

...........

Quote
Carlos E

I live in the Baleares where the humidity is very high too. I have the smaller B9180 fromm HP, and do not find your sort of problem  (yet - tocando madera) with papers. I use Hahnemuehle Photo Rag Bright White 310gsm.

I didn´t know which built-in profile to use with it, so I contacted Hahnemuehle and downloaded their profile for the HP printer and this paper: it was terrible, and produced what looked like banding. So, I used the built-in profile for HP Smooth Fine Art and it works well enough without any sign of banding.

The black/white prints from this printer are superb, and I speak with professional experience of printing my own b/w in a wet darkroom since 57´or so. I find the use of Jessops Heavyweight Photo Matt 230gsm gives lovely prints with this machine. I don´t think this paper is available in Spain - I have a neighbour bring it out from the UK - and it is manufactured in Germany by I don´t know whom. The only reason I do not use it for everything is that only the Hahne paper appears to have a long-life guarantee...

Don´t worry about your use of English - if only my Spanish were half as good!

Hasta luego

Rob C

Edit: I would remark that it takes Hahne papers a longish while to dry properly and to reveal their final colours. Printed one day, I find it is possibly two days later before colour seems settled. This COULD be due to high humidity... makes printing a frustratingly long process.
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Title: 3100 Woes
Post by: Min on October 14, 2007, 10:24:47 PM
If the humidity is an issue, its an issue for the paper not the printer...theoretically. I just looked at the specs for the printer...

Humidity recommended operating range     20 to 80% RH
Recommended operating temperature (Celsius)    15 to 35 ° C
Recommended operating temperature (Fahrenheit)    59 to 95 ° F

that seems like a pretty broad range of conditions so even in the real high humidity areas (summer in wash dc is brutally humid) shouldn't be having these problems at all...according to the specs anyway

Too bad for HP...this machine made me money but it was because of the flexibility it offered...so wonderful to not have to purge! but whats the alternative? epson cant offer me that. Canon i guess.

but if its a pressure issue which changes depending on paper couldnt that be address with firmware? course v6 is long passed the promised delivery date....

min
Title: 3100 Woes
Post by: rdonson on October 15, 2007, 06:40:55 AM
From the manual for the base Z3100, HP Designjet Z3100 Photo Printer Series
"Using your printer"  click here (http://z3100users.wikispaces.com/space/showimage/c00820462_using_your_printer.pdf)



Table 17-10 Printer environmental specifications

Operating for optimal print quality 22°C to 26°C (72°F to 79°F) 30% to 60% RH

Operating for standard printing 15°C to 35°C (59°F to 95°F) 20% to 80% RH

Printer without consumables 5°C to 40°C (41°F to 104°F)

Non-operating packed consumables and printer: -40°C to 60°C (-40°F to 140°F)
Title: 3100 Woes
Post by: dkeyes on October 16, 2007, 02:59:13 AM
Quote
From the manual for the base Z3100, HP Designjet Z3100 Photo Printer Series
"Using your printer"  click here (http://z3100users.wikispaces.com/space/showimage/c00820462_using_your_printer.pdf)
Table 17-10 Printer environmental specifications

Operating for optimal print quality 22°C to 26°C (72°F to 79°F) 30% to 60% RH

Operating for standard printing 15°C to 35°C (59°F to 95°F) 20% to 80% RH

Printer without consumables 5°C to 40°C (41°F to 104°F)

Non-operating packed consumables and printer: -40°C to 60°C (-40°F to 140°F)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146077\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Wow, I haven't seen the "optimal print quality" specs. The temp range is very narrow and warmer than my studio ever gets. Might explain why I sometimes get a slightly milky looking gloss coat noticable in the blacks when I print near 59°F. It's just setting on top of the ink versus mixing in (on HP Pro Satin) I guess it might be time to heat my basement studio.
- Doug
Title: 3100 Woes
Post by: f64digital on October 16, 2007, 07:41:56 PM
Quote
Carlos E

I live in the Baleares where the humidity is very high too. I have the smaller B9180 fromm HP, and do not find your sort of problem  (yet - tocando madera) with papers. I use Hahnemuehle Photo Rag Bright White 310gsm.

I didn´t know which built-in profile to use with it, so I contacted Hahnemuehle and downloaded their profile for the HP printer and this paper: it was terrible, and produced what looked like banding. So, I used the built-in profile for HP Smooth Fine Art and it works well enough without any sign of banding.

The black/white prints from this printer are superb, and I speak with professional experience of printing my own b/w in a wet darkroom since 57´or so. I find the use of Jessops Heavyweight Photo Matt 230gsm gives lovely prints with this machine. I don´t think this paper is available in Spain - I have a neighbour bring it out from the UK - and it is manufactured in Germany by I don´t know whom. The only reason I do not use it for everything is that only the Hahne paper appears to have a long-life guarantee...

Don´t worry about your use of English - if only my Spanish were half as good!

Hasta luego

Rob C

Edit: I would remark that it takes Hahne papers a longish while to dry properly and to reveal their final colours. Printed one day, I find it is possibly two days later before colour seems settled. This COULD be due to high humidity... makes printing a frustratingly long process.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=145845\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I think that the transport mechanism of the 9180 is different from the Z2100-3100. I am sure that me presure of the transport mechanism on the desktop printers is a lot lower than the presure  on the wide format printers. I have had the springs of the Z3100 transport rolls on my hands... they are a lot longer and harder to expand.

About the jeesop paper, I am sure that it will be rolled-marked... I have used HP Hahnemühle smooth fine art, Epson Velvet Fine Art, Fuji Rag paper... all of them with marks. On RC papers I had marks on Fuji Gloss, Kodak Professional Glossy, Permajet Fibre-based, Fuji Baryte.... and some other that I don't remembar at this time... On dry time I had also pizza marks on HP ID gloss.

The HP Z series is very restrictive about the papers you can use with it... No problems about this issue on Epson machines, nevertheless the humidity on my area (Not talking about black ink swapp, and cleaning cycles)

HP engineers must remake the paper transport mechanism from the begining.... if not the new series of Z machines will have all this problems with the delicate surface of the fine art papers.

About the profile ou used for your prints... a bad RGB profile can cause color shifts, color casts, modify the overall contrast of the image, and also the brightness; but can't cause banding, ink-overload, modify ink limits (I am talking about RGB profiles, the ones that are used with the normal RGB drivers, no RIPs nor PS). Perhaps the banding you observed on your prints was a coincidence when changed the ICC profile.

PD... good Spanish

Carlos E
www.f64digital.com
Title: 3100 Woes
Post by: f64digital on October 16, 2007, 07:48:49 PM
Quote
the photo from carlos is exactly what im getting.

min
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The only solution for this is controlling the ambient conditions... humidity and temperature of the room where you print and store the paper... this is a very expensive and not ecological way...

Well you have another solution... wait for the Canon IPF 8100... or a new HP model without this problem, or wait for epson to introduce the 11880 head technology on the smaller wide format printer...

At this moment I haven't found an optimal solution for mate-glossy giclé printing on the same machine... I hope that the 11880 we are wating will be the anxious waited solution for us.

Carlos E.
www.f64digital.com
Title: 3100 Woes
Post by: f64digital on October 16, 2007, 08:15:50 PM
Quote
My 24" Z3100 has been a very reliable printer on a number of papers.  That said, I don't make my living printing with it so I'm sure you have an entirely different perspective. 

That last firmware/software update was a bit of a challenge and I hope that's why they're taking so long to release version 6.  I hope its a trouble free install.
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You should have a relative cold and low humidity ambient conditions... I am sure you haven't tried to print on any of the new fibre-based-glossy paper, like Permajet Fibre-based glossy, Innova Fibaprint, Fuji Baryte, Crane Museum silver rag... and others... the Z series paper transport mechanism leave roller marks on all this papers... on any conditions.

I have to say that this machine works lovely on HP papers... except on Hanhemühle papers... at least on my ambient conditions wich are into the range of HP operating conditions for the Z.

Another problem is the low scratch resistence of the Vivera inkset, mostly on RC papers, even on HP papers. This is not a problem if you are not going to manipulate big prints and just going to hang on a wall... I had to manipulate  10 prints sized 1x1,50 m. We had to laminate the copys for an extra UV and mechanical protection, because the prints were going to the walls of the Lanzarote airport... I had to reprint 5 because of scratches (we are very proud when laminating... never had problems with other inksets; most of the prints I have laminated were printed with K3 inks). If you print for example on HP ID Glossy, leave the print two days drying, and then pass a nail softly over the printed surface, you'll leave a white mark... it happens most on greens. I have observed that the most delicate ink is the gray. If you print on the same paper usink K3 inks, you'll find that is more difficult to scratch the surface of the paper, and more difficult to leave a white line on it.

About the new firmware v.6 it is said that the user will control the ink-limits. The problem is that the transport mechanism was no designed no have different levels of pressure. It has only one mechanical position and there is no way to lower the pressure of the rolls onto the paper; well there is one, but you'll have to change manually the springs for softer ones... I have dismounted it once whith the HP technician, so I sadly can confirm that there is no solution for the roller marks.

Carlos E.
www.f64digital.com
Title: 3100 Woes
Post by: Min on October 16, 2007, 09:01:55 PM
But what doesnt make sense to me is why would the roller marks appear suddenly? I've ruled out humidity and the such because I operate under the ideal conditions apparently. And if its a pressure issue wouldn't the marks have always been a problem?

I have a tech coming in the next day or so...

min
Title: 3100 Woes
Post by: rdonson on October 16, 2007, 09:15:19 PM
Quote
You should have a relative cold and low humidity ambient conditions... I am sure you haven't tried to print on any of the new fibre-based-glossy paper, like Permajet Fibre-based glossy, Innova Fibaprint, Fuji Baryte, Crane Museum silver rag... and others...

Carlos E.
www.f64digital.com
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=146480\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

True, I haven't printed on any of those papers.  I've been waiting for others to report their experiences with those on the Z3100.  

The non-matte papers I've printed on are:
- HP ID Satin
- HP ID Glossy
- Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Satin
- Epson Semi-Gloss

My environmental conditions fall within the HP ideal parameters.
Title: 3100 Woes
Post by: Roscolo on October 17, 2007, 02:10:07 AM
I'm leaning towards the theory that there are just a few defective z3100's out there as I've only seen a very few individuals having problems with paper marks, and some of those individuals were using wrong paper settings (some of those were solved here on the forums).

I've printed on about 8 papers (and canvas and vinyl), thick and thin, and have yet to see the first paper mark even though I'm in humid Georgia. I have seen marks on profiling charts, but I believe those marks are created when the printer pulls the profile back into the printer to read the color samples. I do keep the printer and my papers in an isolated room (formerly my darkroom!) and run the AC when necessary. My house is very well insulated, has exposed concrete floors and very high ceilings, so it doesn't get that hot even with no AC and my "printing room" even more so as it has no windows. Climate control of the printing environment isn't "very expensive and not ecological," it is a near necessity if one is aiming for consistent printing for business. This was true for film and chemistry and darkroom printing and it is just as important for digital printing. Paper will absorb humidity and it simply isn't going to perform the same when it is stored properly in plastic in a controlled environment as when it is left exposed to heat and high humidity. The same was true of traditional photographic papers and films. Extreme heat and humidity aren't just bad for papers, it's bad for your printers, computers, monitors, etc. Literally all computers, components, printers and electronics are shipped with silica gel precisely because humidity is the enemy of all the gizmos we expect to work all the time and, in shipping, manufacturers know these items are likely to endure some warehouse / shipping conditions that are less than ideal, i.e. hot and humid.

That said, I lean towards the "few defective z's" theory, because of the thousands of z's sold, I've seen maybe 10-12 individuals here and elsewhere with transport marks that don't appear to be the result of user error.

I haven't printed on any of the new baryta papers, but I'm unlikely to because I love my B&W's on HP's Photo ID Satin. I'm doing editions so consistency is critical and changing papers is a no-no. I can't imagine paying at least twice as much for the unproven baryta papers (I'm unaware of any archival testing data for any of these papers) when the HP ID Satin gives me the look of a traditional fiber B&W...not the feel, certainly, but the look is perfect. I have samples of the same image from the same 4x5 negs. printed on traditional Ilford Fiber Multi-Grade Glossy and HP Photo ID Satin and on the wall they are virtually indistinguishable as to which is digital and which is darkroom. I like that the HP Satin lies nice and flat also, much easier for framing, especially at the sizes I am printing - 32" x 40", 40" x 50".

I think a company could make a nice living just by offering a new paper of some sort every 3-6 months as there seems to be a market for the "new." It was inconsistency that drove me from Kodak films and B&W papers some years ago - every year something was "new" or "improved" with new processing times, look, packaging, etc. This made consistent results difficult if not impossible with Kodak products. Kodak's "strategy" practically gave the title of "reliable and consistent brand" to Ilford.

All that said, I hope HP can definitively solve the problems for those that have them. Some of you are getting paper marks and there has to be a reason for that. And it's quite possible my completely satisfactorily results with the z3100 are related to my more "consistency centered" approach in my workflow. I'm not trying a lot of papers, certainly not when they first hit the market. I stick to a stable of about 6-8, and for my own work, the vast majority of which is B&W, I'm set on HP Photo ID Satin because the look is outstanding, I've already committed quite a few editions of oversized prints to it, and I want consistency in appearance when I show these images, now and in the future.
Title: 3100 Woes
Post by: f64digital on October 17, 2007, 04:22:11 AM
Roscolo, I have printed in HP ID Satin with good results and no roller marks. I have also printed on HP Litographic Mate Paper, HP ID Gloss, Outdoor Vinyls, and mate canvas with no problems. Also the printer performs well on many third party satin or pearl papers with no roller marks. I have only observed a bad adherence on Fuji Pearl Paper, but worked well on Canson Satin, Epson Premium Semigloss, Permajet semigloss and Kodak Professional Lustre.

The problem appear when you need to print on many fine art papers, like HP Hanhemühle Smooth fine art, also when the paper and printer are in the ambient operating conditions suggested from HP.

I have also tested a Z2100 on HP Hanhemühle Smooth fine art paper on my dealer store with controlled ambien conditions, and the prints showed the same roller marks, so I think the problem is not a defective unit, but a design problem of the paper transport mechanism.

The printer performs very well with no roller marks when you use only the HP papers, except on HP Hanhemühle Smooth Fine Art. Some of us need to print on this range of fine art papers and also the new Fibre-based papers because our customers want this feeling. I can accept that the Z don't perform well on non HP papers; what made me upset was discovering roller marks o HP Hanhemühle Smooth Fine Art paper... from different stock roolls. HP said that this is a limitation on the machine, but I need to print on these papers.

Carlos E.
Title: 3100 Woes
Post by: ericbullock on October 17, 2007, 02:38:03 PM
Hello everyone. This is a known issue and I wanted to share with everyone the response from the developers in Barcelona:

Quote
The issue you are describing has been already identified and the solution is on their deployment phase. It is due to the material of the Pinch wheel, the printer mechanism that holds the paper. And, as you said, it appears more in thick papers or in environments with high humidity.
 
A new pinch wheel to solve the issue will be available during December as service kit, this means that a customer will call hp support and an on-site engineer will come and replace the part.

So while not a perfect answer, everyone should feel better that HP is aware of the problem and a solution is on its way.

Cheers,

Eric Bullock
Mac Business Solutions
www.mbsdirect.com (http://www.mbsdirect.com)
Title: 3100 Woes
Post by: rdonson on October 17, 2007, 03:28:18 PM
Thanks, Eric.  It very reassuring that HP is addressing the problem.
Title: 3100 Woes
Post by: Min on October 17, 2007, 03:33:06 PM
Yeah, Eric!

Thanks looking into it and for passing along my woes to HP!

talk to you soon!

min
Title: 3100 Woes
Post by: stevenh on October 17, 2007, 05:25:25 PM
thanks for the update.  i was printing on the hp hann. paper and would get the marks occasionally.

this past weekend i was printing on the pid glossy. the first two prints (different images) printed fine. the third image had the roller marks. this was all within about 1.5 to 2 hours.
of course this kind of stuff always seems to manifest when an edition is due....
good to hear that HP is coming with a fix.
Title: 3100 Woes
Post by: Colorwave on October 17, 2007, 06:48:25 PM
If you listen very carefully, you can hear the sound of the cavalry approaching from the distance . . .

Thanks, Eric, for the encouraging word from our friends in Barcelona.  This will hopefully be the resolution we have been waiting for with this problem, and as a side benefit it may put to rest the "operator error" theory espoused above.  A few too many "operators" seem to have this "error" to write it off as anything but a design flaw (intermittent or not).
-Ron H.
Title: 3100 Woes
Post by: f64digital on October 18, 2007, 03:05:19 AM
I've been fighting with HP about this issue since March..., until they recognized the problem on June; they where working on a solution since July... and it was on Septtember when HP decided not to repair my unit, but buy back it... Yes they told me textually "It is a limitacion of the machine". Now I have sent the Z3100 to France two weeks ago, and wating the money back.

I hope now it is true that they are really working on a solution for this marks. The problem was that I could not stay wating 2, 4, 6, 12 months for a solution. It is a lot of money for having roller marks.

Carlos E
www.f64digital.com
Title: 3100 Woes
Post by: marty m on January 13, 2008, 02:41:20 AM
I'm going through older threads to read about the problems with ink marks.  This thread discussed all of the problems with the Z3100 as compared with Epson.

My Epson 4000 used a vacuum.  Do the newer models of Epson use a vacuum?

I'm wondering if the issue is a fundamental difference in design approach.  A printer using a vacuum would not have to apply as much pressure with pinch rollers or star wheels.
Title: 3100 Woes
Post by: Christopher on January 13, 2008, 03:58:03 AM
Had the same problem on some Papers especially. Talked to HP a lot even with the people in Spain. They were here some time. But in the End after 6 months I had enough, sorry but HP doesn't even know there own printer. Went back to Epson and was never so happy. Funny thing, Printed on PK on the Epson with HM PhotoRag with good profiles is as good as any HP z3100 print ever on that paper. Isn't that kind of sad ^^

@ericbullock

HP knows of this problem for ONE year know, because I reported it one year ago, the same for the very poor red perfomrence on Matt papers. HP keeps talking that they gonna fix it. Perhaps if you get lucky you will see a fix with the next generation of printers.

All what HP is doing is playing tricks on ther customers. If you want you money back just get a little harsh and tell them you will take legal actions, if they don't take it back and give you the money back. You will see, you will get your money back quite fast....
Title: 3100 Woes
Post by: Geoff Wittig on January 14, 2008, 08:35:04 AM
I've had some of the same experiences, but I'm inclined to cut HP some slack here. After all, we're using a huge range of papers from independent vendors with widely differing coating technologies over which HP has absolutely no control. They can't know in advance every possible permutation of paper and coating the machine will have to deal with.

My experience so far is that the Z3100 (24") handles all of HP's papers without any problem at all—no scratches or roller marks. It handles most of Epson's papers with equal aplomb. I've had no trouble with most of Hahnemuhle's papers. The newer fiber/gloss papers are tougher. Crane silver rag goes through my machine just fine, provided I first de-curl it. Harman FB AL gloss does have problems; the printer leaves barely visible roller marks along the length of the page. I count this no great loss, however, as the paper just doesn't look very nice with my images; too glossy, and a distracting fine-textured sparkle in glancing light. To be honest, HP's professional satin looks nicer.
Title: 3100 Woes
Post by: rdonson on January 14, 2008, 11:13:01 AM
My experiences echo Geoff's.  I'm happy with the Z3100 for what I do.  

Christopher we know you were unhappy with the Z.  Glad to hear that you love your new Epson.
Title: 3100 Woes
Post by: dandeliondigital on January 14, 2008, 11:13:44 AM
Quote
I've had some of the same experiences, but I'm inclined to cut HP some slack here. After all, we're using a huge range of papers from independent vendors with widely differing coating technologies over which HP has absolutely no control. They can't know in advance every possible permutation of paper and coating the machine will have to deal with.

My experience so far is that the Z3100 (24") handles all of HP's papers without any problem at all—no scratches or roller marks. It handles most of Epson's papers with equal aplomb. I've had no trouble with most of Hahnemuhle's papers. The newer fiber/gloss papers are tougher. Crane silver rag goes through my machine just fine, provided I first de-curl it. Harman FB AL gloss does have problems; the printer leaves barely visible roller marks along the length of the page. I count this no great loss, however, as the paper just doesn't look very nice with my images; too glossy, and a distracting fine-textured sparkle in glancing light. To be honest, HP's professional satin looks nicer.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=167045\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi Geoff,
I have to ask if _your Z3100_ to which you are refering has had the rollers replaced with newly designed (larger softer) rollers that are part of the paper transport fix I have read about?

Mine has not. I am experiencing, since last July, amazingly pronounced marks on HP Premium ID Glossy which is shocking because this is a very RC-like plastic paper. Also, it chewed through 3 different fiberprint type papers I have tested. Bad for the photographer in me because I cannot use plastic papers and feel good about it.

HP's latest Technical Newsletter called ""How to profile Other Commercially available Paper on the Z Series - Updated for 6.0.0.8 FW doesn't ever mention any of these roller marks issues. The newsletter makes it sound like there shouldn't be a problem. It mentions proper settings for fibaprint type papers, and really makes me feel like my Cadillac Model Z3100ps GP has got a wheel in the ditch.

For a printer with the word "PHOTO" in it's moniker, so far it cannot successfully print out a successful print on too many diffrent PHOTO types of media because of this issue. I have been waiting over 6 months, and things are currently in play. I have my fingers crossed. Wish me luck.

I will be so happy on  the day I can report success. I actually love very many features of this printer, but this one problem is a killer.

So long for now, TOM
Title: 3100 Woes
Post by: Geoff Wittig on January 14, 2008, 11:24:07 AM
I'm using a plain vanilla (non-APS, non-Postscript) 24" Z3100 I've owned since early May 2007. I presume it has the original rollers; they're a kind of dark tan color if that helps. I settled on HP's professional satin paper early on, and never felt the need to experiment with the other satin permutations because the results were so good.
Title: 3100 Woes
Post by: Colorwave on January 14, 2008, 02:03:46 PM
Quote
I'm using a plain vanilla (non-APS, non-Postscript) 24" Z3100 I've owned since early May 2007. I presume it has the original rollers; they're a kind of dark tan color if that helps. I settled on HP's professional satin paper early on, and never felt the need to experiment with the other satin permutations because the results were so good.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=167074\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Geoff-
My original pinch rollers are black, as well as the ones that were recently sent as "new design" that turned out to be the same as the original rollers.  The black ones feel like a hard nylon.  The new rollers that were replaced at a local Calumet store are tan in color and soft enough that you can indent your fingernail in them slightly.  Would you mind checking to see if you can determine if your rollers are hard or slightly softer?
Thanks,
Ron
Title: 3100 Woes
Post by: Geoff Wittig on January 14, 2008, 09:00:01 PM
Ron-
My mistake. When I got home tonight I opened up the printer and looked around. The large driven roller beneath the paper is sort of charcoal grey with flecks, and has a bit of give to the fingernail. The smaller passive cylindrical rollers on top are black plastic and quite hard. So this is the original roller set.
Hope that helps.

Geoff.
Title: 3100 Woes
Post by: rdonson on January 14, 2008, 09:07:14 PM
Quote
HP's latest Technical Newsletter called ""How to profile Other Commercially available Paper on the Z Series - Updated for 6.0.0.8 FW doesn't ever mention any of these roller marks issues. The newsletter makes it sound like there shouldn't be a problem. It mentions proper settings for fibaprint type papers, and really makes me feel like my Cadillac Model Z3100ps GP has got a wheel in the ditch.

So long for now, TOM
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=167071\")

Tom, can you provide a link to this technical newsletter.  I can't find it despite a determined search.  

Can I mention again how much I hate the HP websites?

Update:
The HP websites are soooooo frustrating.  I think I finally found the doc Tom mentions.  Was it on the DesignJet HP website?  Nope.  It was on the HP Graphic Arts website.  I wish I could meet the moron in charge of putting info on the HP websites.  I'd love to hear the rationale for this nonsense.

[a href=\"https://h30267.www3.hp.com/hpp/country/us/en/designjet/iccmedia.html?cc=us&new_product=Z3100&profile_type=MEDIA&jumpid=reg_R1002_USEN&pageseq=13044]Click here.[/url]

As soon as I successfully download all the PDFs I'll put them up on the wiki where it will be easier to find.

update again:

Four tech newsletters dealing with paper presets and non-HP papers with fw 6.0.0.8 have been placed on the z3100 wiki (http://z3100users.wikispaces.com/)
Title: 3100 Woes
Post by: dandeliondigital on January 14, 2008, 09:48:38 PM
Quote
Tom, can you provide a link to this technical newsletter.  I can't find it despite a determined search. 

Can I mention again how much I hate the HP websites?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=167199\")

Hi r,
Well I logged onto HP's site (it is very confusing and hierarchical isn't it?), and first selected my products, and then Tips and Tricks section which brings up a list of PDF files. Old files here for v 5 firmware. This is where I thought I got it from, and when I clicked on a link that sounded promising the page comes up as inaccessible.

For a long pause, I cannot remember if I originally got my pdf via the old link which was at...
» Working with non HP papers (Update for firmware 5) (1.5 MB PDF)*
and now doesn't work, or through a newer link which sadly isn't showing as available. So...

I searched HP using part of the name of the newsletter "Profile Other Commercially available Paper" as the search term worldwide and got the following...

[a href=\"https://h30267.www3.hp.com/hpp/country/us/en/designjet/iccmedia.html?cc=us&new_product=Z3100PS&profile_type=MEDIA&jumpid=reg_R1002_USEN&pageseq=134734]https://h30267.www3.hp.com/hpp/country/us/e...&pageseq=134734[/url]

This is the page which has downloadable paper presets listed for my Model Z3100ps GP. Scroll down to the first break where you see the following text which contains the links. Not sure if these links will work or not, but you should be able to find it.

At the table break the text reads as follows (I added the links for you, YMMV)...

* Make sure you are using the latest firmware. If your paper selection is not on this list, use the paper type available in the front panel of your printer.

» How to download and install other Commercially-available Paper ver. 6.0.0.8 (388KB PDF)
https://h30267.www3.hp.com/hpp/country/us/e...&pageseq=657065 (https://h30267.www3.hp.com/hpp/country/us/en/designjet/pdf_refer.html?pdflink=Data/How_to_profile_other_commerciallyavailable_paper_6.0.0.8.pdf&pageseq=657065)

» How to profile other commercially - available paper ver. 6.0.0.8 (1.1MB PDF)
https://h30267.www3.hp.com/hpp/country/us/e...&pageseq=657065 (https://h30267.www3.hp.com/hpp/country/us/en/designjet/pdf_refer.html?pdflink=Data/How_to_profile_other_commerciallyavailable_paper_6.0.0.8.pdf&pageseq=657065)

» Working with other commercially-available paper ver. 6.0.0.8 (331KB PDF) https://h30267.www3.hp.com/hpp/country/us/e...f&pageseq=78935 (https://h30267.www3.hp.com/hpp/country/us/en/designjet/pdf_refer.html?pdflink=Data/Z2100_and_Z3100_Working_with_other_commercially-available_paper_6.0.0.8.pdf&pageseq=78935)

In true to the Zed HP form these links all refer to v6.0.0.8 Firmware and the Z3100 & Z2100 models, but its on the page for my printer. My printer, the Z3100ps GP uses firmware version 6.0.0.7. One has to assume that this applies to me as well as the Z3100 users, but HP doesn't make this clear, and they won't treat me with the respect I wish I could get. ;-)  I have asked them over and over for more clarity regarding the Z3100ps GP model vrs the rest of the Zed printers for over 6 months, and how it is referred to in their posting and web site and publications. Sigh.

I hope this helps.

So long for now, TOM
Title: 3100 Woes
Post by: dandeliondigital on January 14, 2008, 10:02:43 PM
Quote
Tom, can you provide a link to this technical newsletter.  I can't find it despite a determined search. 

Can I mention again how much I hate the HP websites?

Update:
The HP websites are soooooo frustrating.  I think I finally found the doc Tom mentions.  Was it on the DesignJet HP website?  Nope.  It was on the HP Graphic Arts website.  I wish I could meet the moron in charge of putting info on the HP websites.  I'd love to hear the rationale for this nonsense.

Click here. (https://h30267.www3.hp.com/hpp/country/us/en/designjet/iccmedia.html?cc=us&new_product=Z3100&profile_type=MEDIA&jumpid=reg_R1002_USEN&pageseq=13044)

As soon as I successfully download all the PDFs I'll put them up on the wiki where it will be easier to find.

update again:

Four tech newsletters dealing with paper presets and non-HP papers with fw 6.0.0.8 have been placed on the z3100 wiki (http://z3100users.wikispaces.com/)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=167199\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Doh! I wish I had read your post before doing all that heavy lifting on the HP site. Ouch!

Thanks for the wiki, it's a helpful resource.

So long for now, TOM
Title: 3100 Woes
Post by: Jim Cole on January 14, 2008, 11:39:01 PM
Hi all,

Has anyone managed to find the "Fine Art Barite" preset that in mentioned in the following document?

Z2100_and_Z3100_Working_with_other_commercially-available_paper_6.0.0.8.pdf

Thanks,
Jim
Title: 3100 Woes
Post by: Min on January 15, 2008, 12:20:17 AM
I got a fix from HP awhile back...new rollers (they arent really bigger, they have a different shape and are more spongy)...and since then no troubles there...for the most part...there was an ever so slight mark on solid black on the rag paper, but it doesnt show up in anything but solid black, which i dont print very often...the HP tech  is still communicating with Spain about that...I'm holding their feet to the fire.

 I was getting a bit of starwheel markings but when the tech replaced my rollers he oiled the springs holding the starwheel assembly... no marks since.

Dont tell HP but I hardly use any HP papers anymore... using Hahnemuhle Photo Rags, Ilford Smooth Pearl, Breathing Color canvases and fine art papers and Epson Enhanced matte with no problems with marks since my fix.

However, I discovered why HP doesnt make 44" papers for their 44" printers ... everything is 42" always wondered why, seemed so ridiculous and was causing me client issue. One day i was having very bad ink splotching along the far side on 44" Ilford pearl...think it was coming from the ink deposit area (or whatever the technical term for it is). I cleaned the area and the rollers and it seems to have solved the problem...although I know it will resurface and will be calling HP for a solution at some point I'm sure.

Im back to loving this printer again...however I have not upgraded the software or the firmware...it was such a nightmare last time that Im reluctant. And I cant say that if I was buying a printer today that I would buy another HP. I would however buy a printer that offered me the same flexibility with the inks and papers... I will never go back to purging ink.

min
Title: 3100 Woes
Post by: Colorwave on January 15, 2008, 12:23:28 AM
Since there are two similar threads going, you might be interested in my most recent missive on my struggles with tracking down the new roller design here:

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....38&#entry167238 (http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=21426&st=40&p=167238&#entry167238)

Geoff:  Thanks for looking at your rollers.  I was having a hard time processing your rollers being that old and being different from all the rest I've seen, but the same color as the new ones.

-Ron H.

On The Subject Of HP's Website:  It's a little different because it isn't designed by humans.  It uses an advanced fractal algorithm for organization that entirely replaces the typical site hierarchy.  Like cholera and the plague, eventually you get used to it . . .
Title: 3100 Woes
Post by: Christopher on January 15, 2008, 04:37:03 AM
I know there are some happy guys with there HP and if I would just print for my own sake I probably would have kept it, but I don't.

Another thing I find interesting, that you find 10times more post about z3100 problems compared to Canon or Epson.

I think in the end it just depends on what you expect from such a printer and to what you are used to.
Title: 3100 Woes
Post by: rdonson on January 15, 2008, 01:46:03 PM
Quote
On The Subject Of HP's Website:  It's a little different because it isn't designed by humans.  It uses an advanced fractal algorithm for organization that entirely replaces the typical site hierarchy.  Like cholera and the plague, eventually you get used to it . . .
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=167244\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

   
Title: 3100 Woes
Post by: Harry Carpenter on January 15, 2008, 06:17:15 PM
Quote
Another thing I find interesting, that you find 10times more post about z3100 problems compared to Canon or Epson.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=167278\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Not really.

I was looking to buy "A printer" last year and the make was unimportant.
Having used the Epsons for a few years their horrendous ink wastage and head clogging were enough to turn me away from them. I looked to Canon but the sheer volume of really dreadful user reviews on the ipf5000 and Canons complete lack of interest ensured that I was never going to be prepared to put up with that much grief.
I therefore went with the z3100.
I have had some roller marks and initial colour profile issues, but now they are all sorted I am more than happy and the ink usage is incredible.

I do however think that HP needs a slap to make more effort to resolve these remaining issues across the board as the unresolved problems can only be costing them business and making their "loyal" customers look elsewhere.