Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: pprdigital on September 23, 2007, 01:13:48 pm

Title: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: pprdigital on September 23, 2007, 01:13:48 pm
This past Friday I attended the Hasselbald Dealer Summit for the Americas in Santa Monica, CA.

This is a hands-on report from my experience with the camera and my discussions with Hasselblad management:

H3D Camera Improvements

*New 3" Screen
I compared this to the screen from a Canon 40D outside. They are very similar. Similar brightness, similar feel and texture. The 40D seems to have a wee bit more resolution. This could be due more to the generated preview file itself, rather than a screen limitation, in fact I am told by Hasselblad this is the case. I haven't looked at the data sheet of the 40D, but they could indeed be the same screen. If not, they could be mistaken for each other. UPDATE: Both screens are 230,000 pixels.

There are actually very few manufacturers of screens in the world. It is much like the production of Blue Jeans or Flat screen TV's that get re-badged. This makes the task of buying these screens even more difficult. You can imagine Hasselblad calling up Dupont Screen Makers and trying to order 2,000 screens and being told that the minimum order is 15,000,000.

*There is a new and improved IR Filter.

*The Firewire port has been enhanced to make it easier to plug in the 800 firewire (via guides) and also more difficult for it to fall out (via additional gripping).

*The CF Door has been replaced by a sturdier version and the clasp has been significantly reinforced.

*The rubber covers over the flash  and sync ports are a  more robust material.

*Ultra Focus is now in it's second iteration.

Killer App 1
*GPS capability is now enabled with the GPS unit, which plugs into the left side of the camera body. While some may yawn at this feature (thinking aerial photography), there are actually quite a number of different applications for this feature. Scouting is an obvious one. The ability to GPS search for that street with the cool door you used as a background comes to mind, and I imagine users will find new uses for this feature. From the new Phocus software, Google Earth automatically launches from the software and the location can be mapped and all files shot with those coordinates can be brought up with a simple command. Very cool. The GPS unit is compatible with H3DII and backward compatible with the H3D, H2D and any Hasselblad CF or CFH on H2 camera. Pricing is not yet set but should be announced shortly.

*Enhanced menu access is now available by double clicking the release button. This enables complete control of the digital back menu in the back via the thumb-wheel dials surrounding the camera grip. Very nice. This is backward compatible to the original H3D. Also, the Drive button has been replaced with ISO/WB, so you can set ISO/WB directly without any menus. Not sure where Drive settings went. This function is backward compatible with every Hasselblad digital capture unit combined with any H camera.

*You can now display battery status by double clicking the light button on the camera. Not only does it show a graphical view of remaining battery life, it gives you the actual percentage. Yeah!

Phocus Software
I spent some time with Phocus. Like Capture One, it has also adopted a very Lightoom/Aperture look and approach. This, I think is a good thing in some ways, one being that learning curves for these software packages should be reduced due to familiarity with the latter applications.

Most of what you can do in Flexcolor seems to be present in Phocus. What is different is obviously, the interface, the ability to rez images 100% in preview mode, ability to compare multiple images, much more intensive metadata input mode, ability to operate from multiple folders, ability to drag -n-drop thumbnails to those folders, ability to freely re-size thumbnails just by grabbing and pulling, etc.

*Killer App 2
I was shown a new Anti-Moire tool. If this tool works the way that I saw it on all images with the problem, this is a true killer app for Hasselblad. What I saw was amazing in how color moire and pattern moire were eliminated. This is accomplished directly on the raw file - before any raw conversion takes place. What's more, this tool will be able to be used on any legacy .fff files from any Imacon/Hasselblad capture unit.

*Niche Killer App
With the new Phocus software, an H3D camera can be manually or auto-focused from the software. This then becomes a great solution when combined with Live Video for complete control of the camera from the software.

Phocus will enable exposure times up to 64 seconds and extend the ISO range by one stop on all Hasselblad products going back to the iXpress series. It is likely the lack of noise will be superior in the newer H-based product, but the fact that someone who bought an iXpress 132C four years ago now has ISO 800 and 64 second capability FOR FREE is, I think, very significant.

Other Goodies
Spare backup bodies are now an option for H3D-II, H2D. I assume H3D, but the data is unclear. Not sure why there would be available backup body for H2D and not H3D, so for now, I am assuming H3D too, but it is not confirmed.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
Title: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: jonstewart on September 23, 2007, 01:31:29 pm
Quote
This past Friday I attended the Hasselbald Dealer Summit for the Americas in Santa Monica, CA.

This is a hands-on report from my experience with the camera and my discussions with Hasselblad management:

H3D Camera Improvements

<snip>

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141424\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

So, basically, nicer to use....but what about improvements in image quality?
Title: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: pprdigital on September 23, 2007, 01:32:38 pm
Quote
So, basically, nicer to use....but what about improvements in image quality?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141427\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Jon:

Can you be more specific?

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
Title: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: Mark_Tucker on September 23, 2007, 02:14:30 pm
Quote
There are actually very few manufacturers of screens in the world. It is much like the production of Blue Jeans or Flat screen TV's that get re-badged. This makes the task of buying these screens even more difficult. You can imagine Hasselblad calling up Dupont Screen Makers and trying to order 2,000 screens and being told that the minimum order is 15,000,000.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141424\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Steve,

With all due respect, I've heard this argument, (ie, justification), for years now, and it's just a bullshit excuse. Either these companies need to get into the "screen reselling business" and buy the fifteen million upfront, and use good ones and resell the rest to some cell phone company, or else, they need to get into the Tony Soprano business, and buy two thousand "that fell off the back of a truck, somewhere in Queens".

While Canon, and every other Terry Richardson point-and-shoot companies are using 3 inch LCDs, and probably larger ones soon, these MF companies are crying like a baby, and using 2.2 inch units, and they're looking like fools. They can't see the forest for the trees. The size of the LCD is a BIG DEAL, and so is the quality of it. Not every job has the luxury of being able to shoot tethered, if you're out in a field somewhere and not able to drag a kart and a Honda.

Hasselblad finally bought enough off the back of a truck to equip the new back. Thank God, welcome to the year 2007. Let's not even discuss Phase, and their out-of-date mullet haircuts.

So can we stop this silly justification now, and agree that, if you're selling me a $32,000.00 digital back, that you can pony up enough money to buy a quality LCD? Because, if you don't, then Canon will. All these MF companies, wanting $32k for a back, and then they want you to listen to their violin music, as they cry about not being able to fit them with a modern LCD. Please.
Title: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: Mark_Tucker on September 23, 2007, 02:18:04 pm
...
Title: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: Morgan_Moore on September 23, 2007, 02:25:15 pm
Quote
Steve,

With all due respect, I've heard this argument, (ie, justification), for years now, and it's just a bullshit excuse. Either these companies need to get into the "screen reselling business" and buy the fifteen million upfront, and use good ones and resell the rest to some cell phone company, or else, they need to get into the Tony Soprano business, and buy two thousand "that fell off the back of a truck, somewhere in Queens".

While Canon, and every other Terry Richardson point-and-shoot companies are using 3 inch LCDs, and probably larger ones soon, these MF companies are crying like a baby, and using 2.2 inch units, and they're looking like fools. They can't see the forest for the trees. The size of the LCD is a BIG DEAL, and so is the quality of it.

Hasselblad finally bought enough off the back of a truck to equip the new back. Thank God, welcome to the year 2007. Let's not even discuss Phase, and their out-of-date mullet haircuts.

So can we stop this silly justification now, and agree that, if you're selling me a $32,000.00 digital back, that you can pony up enough money to buy a quality LCD? Because, if you don't, then Canon will. All these MF companies, wanting $32k for a back, and then they want you to listen to their violin music, as they cry about not being able to fit them with a modern LCD. Please.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=141432\")

They dont need to be in a market position to buy a truckload of screens

they could just buy some of these from thier local store..

[a href=\"http://www.letsgodigital.org/en/13159/face_recognition/]http://www.letsgodigital.org/en/13159/face_recognition/[/url]

And pull them apart for the screens.

They could grab the face recognition software too!

ps I am (half) joking

pps the H3D2 looks cool

S
Title: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: MarkKay on September 23, 2007, 02:32:44 pm
This is a severe dissapointment since in my opinion, the 40D LCD is horrible in terms of resolution.  It is not possible to get any indication if your shot is close to be focused.  I would rather have a smaller LCD with more reasonable resolution.

Quote
*New 3" Screen
I compared this to the screen from a Canon 40D outside. They are very similar. Similar brightness, similar feel and texture. The 40D seems to have a wee bit more resolution. This could be due more to the generated preview file itself, rather than a screen limitation, in fact I am told by Hasselblad this is the case. I haven't looked at the data sheet of the 40D, but they could indeed be the same screen. If not, they could be mistaken for each other. UPDATE: Both screens are 230,000 pixels.

TSteve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141424\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: jonstewart on September 23, 2007, 03:08:25 pm
Quote
Jon:

Can you be more specific?

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141428\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well, you just talked about features which seem to me to more related to making the system easier to use, perhaps to broaden appeal beyond the current audience, but you seemed to say nothing about how the image quality has improved. I am assuming that this new camera has better image quality than it's predecessor, and would be interested in YOUR opinion as to how it is better.

Perhaps I'm wrong in making any assumptions about improvement in image quality, but I would have thought that this (even for a small improvement) would be a priority, when releasing a new model (Thinking of Canon 1Ds 2/3 here).

Thanks in advance.
Title: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: pprdigital on September 23, 2007, 03:55:02 pm
Quote
Well, you just talked about features which seem to me to more related to making the system easier to use, perhaps to broaden appeal beyond the current audience, but you seemed to say nothing about how the image quality has improved. I am assuming that this new camera has better image quality than it's predecessor, and would be interested in YOUR opinion as to how it is better.

Perhaps I'm wrong in making any assumptions about improvement in image quality, but I would have thought that this (even for a small improvement) would be a priority, when releasing a new model (Thinking of Canon 1Ds 2/3 here).

Thanks in advance.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141441\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Jon:

Well, there are no new sensors that will be hitting the street for some time, so as has been the case with Leaf and with Phase One earlier in the year, Hasselblad has focused on making improvements in other areas.

Leaf increased speed, and Phase One increased long exposure, ISO and provided an improved LCD screen.

There will be ISO and noise improvements - ISO now going to max 1600 and long exposure to 64 seconds - you may also find noise overall is reduced in general. It is notable, that this improvement will cost nothing to existing Hasselblad users. All Hasselblad users from the 4 year old iXpress backs foreward will benefit from the extra stop of ISO, the longer exposures and the reduced noise.

I did not view any of this because these changes will be in association with the release of Phocus. In the past year, Hasselblad has increased capture speeds and (now) ISO and long exposure at ZERO cost to their existing users. These enhancements have all been produced through software/firmware upgrades which are free. I feel that is very significant.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
Title: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: pprdigital on September 23, 2007, 04:13:04 pm
Quote
Steve,

With all due respect, I've heard this argument, (ie, justification), for years now, and it's just a bullshit excuse. Either these companies need to get into the "screen reselling business" and buy the fifteen million upfront, and use good ones and resell the rest to some cell phone company, or else, they need to get into the Tony Soprano business, and buy two thousand "that fell off the back of a truck, somewhere in Queens".

While Canon, and every other Terry Richardson point-and-shoot companies are using 3 inch LCDs, and probably larger ones soon, these MF companies are crying like a baby, and using 2.2 inch units, and they're looking like fools. They can't see the forest for the trees. The size of the LCD is a BIG DEAL, and so is the quality of it. Not every job has the luxury of being able to shoot tethered, if you're out in a field somewhere and not able to drag a kart and a Honda.

Hasselblad finally bought enough off the back of a truck to equip the new back. Thank God, welcome to the year 2007. Let's not even discuss Phase, and their out-of-date mullet haircuts.

So can we stop this silly justification now, and agree that, if you're selling me a $32,000.00 digital back, that you can pony up enough money to buy a quality LCD? Because, if you don't, then Canon will. All these MF companies, wanting $32k for a back, and then they want you to listen to their violin music, as they cry about not being able to fit them with a modern LCD. Please.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141432\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Okay.

So then why do you think they stick with these inferior screens? Why, when the picture gets painted here and everywhere that it's so easy to do this - just buy a bunch from the local Best Buy or whatever - why do they not do it? Why, when putting a hot screen on the back of a MFDB would immediately give them an easily quantifiable edge over their competitors do they not do it?

I'd like to know what the theories are.

To me, first off, yes affordably buying these things in the quantities they do presents a challenge. And even if that is surpassed, it is also true that if you put a 3" - 4" screen on a MFDB, it will look like crap. There is insufficient resolution in those preview files to provide an image that looks as good as a Canon LCD preview does. With the extra intelligent controllers they have in their camera, they can provide a preview with sufficient resolution on these screens.

Perhaps the integration with the H camera has helped facilitate the enhancement of the preview on this 3" Hasselblad screen. I don't know. All I know is that I have a hard time assuming that these guys are idiots or stupid or just plain unwilling to have done anything about this knowing the advantage it would give them in the marketplace.

Every technology has it's limitations.

Why didn't Canon have an LCD like Nikon has with 900, something thousand pixels? That screen looks awesome. What the hell is wrong with Canon?

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
Title: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: SeanFS on September 23, 2007, 08:51:36 pm
I always thought the screen thing was a heat related issue - a significant change in all the backs seems to be heat management from CCD's as CMOS runs much cooler. I guess improved power management would help as well.
I'm looking forward to the iso increase on my 132, not that I would use it a lot but the 400 iso setting  which became viable a while back has proven useful a few times and capture speed took a leap recently ( virtually no more waiting for the buffer to clear ) but I thought that has something to do with a new laptop.

Thanks for the report Steve.



Quote
Okay.

So then why do you think they stick with these inferior screens? Why, when the picture gets painted here and everywhere that it's so easy to do this - just buy a bunch from the local Best Buy or whatever - why do they not do it? Why, when putting a hot screen on the back of a MFDB would immediately give them an easily quantifiable edge over their competitors do they not do it?

I'd like to know what the theories are.

To me, first off, yes affordably buying these things in the quantities they do presents a challenge. And even if that is surpassed, it is also true that if you put a 3" - 4" screen on a MFDB, it will look like crap. There is insufficient resolution in those preview files to provide an image that looks as good as a Canon LCD preview does. With the extra intelligent controllers they have in their camera, they can provide a preview with sufficient resolution on these screens.

Perhaps the integration with the H camera has helped facilitate the enhancement of the preview on this 3" Hasselblad screen. I don't know. All I know is that I have a hard time assuming that these guys are idiots or stupid or just plain unwilling to have done anything about this knowing the advantage it would give them in the marketplace.

Every technology has it's limitations.

Why didn't Canon have an LCD like Nikon has with 900, something thousand pixels? That screen looks awesome. What the hell is wrong with Canon?

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141452\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: marc gerritsen on September 23, 2007, 10:30:49 pm
Thanks as well for that report.
Just one thing regarding the new software phocus.
When I export an fff file to dng, I can recoup about 2-3x more blown highlights and shadows than
using flexcolor; do you know if there is any change on that front as well.
Do you actually know the reason for this
cheers
Marc


Quote
Okay.

So then why do you think they stick with these inferior screens? Why, when the picture gets painted here and everywhere that it's so easy to do this - just buy a bunch from the local Best Buy or whatever - why do they not do it? Why, when putting a hot screen on the back of a MFDB would immediately give them an easily quantifiable edge over their competitors do they not do it?

I'd like to know what the theories are.

To me, first off, yes affordably buying these things in the quantities they do presents a challenge. And even if that is surpassed, it is also true that if you put a 3" - 4" screen on a MFDB, it will look like crap. There is insufficient resolution in those preview files to provide an image that looks as good as a Canon LCD preview does. With the extra intelligent controllers they have in their camera, they can provide a preview with sufficient resolution on these screens.

Perhaps the integration with the H camera has helped facilitate the enhancement of the preview on this 3" Hasselblad screen. I don't know. All I know is that I have a hard time assuming that these guys are idiots or stupid or just plain unwilling to have done anything about this knowing the advantage it would give them in the marketplace.

Every technology has it's limitations.

Why didn't Canon have an LCD like Nikon has with 900, something thousand pixels? That screen looks awesome. What the hell is wrong with Canon?

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141452\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: Dustbak on September 24, 2007, 04:20:54 am
Quote
This past Friday I attended the Hasselbald Dealer Summit for the Americas in Santa Monica, CA.

This is a hands-on report from my experience with the camera and my discussions with Hasselblad management:

H3D Camera Improvements

*New 3" Screen
I compared this to the screen from a Canon 40D outside. They are very similar. Similar brightness, similar feel and texture. The 40D seems to have a wee bit more resolution. This could be due more to the generated preview file itself, rather than a screen limitation, in fact I am told by Hasselblad this is the case. I haven't looked at the data sheet of the 40D, but they could indeed be the same screen. If not, they could be mistaken for each other. UPDATE: Both screens are 230,000 pixels.

There are actually very few manufacturers of screens in the world. It is much like the production of Blue Jeans or Flat screen TV's that get re-badged. This makes the task of buying these screens even more difficult. You can imagine Hasselblad calling up Dupont Screen Makers and trying to order 2,000 screens and being told that the minimum order is 15,000,000.

*There is a new and improved IR Filter.

*The Firewire port has been enhanced to make it easier to plug in the 800 firewire (via guides) and also more difficult for it to fall out (via additional gripping).

*The CF Door has been replaced by a sturdier version and the clasp has been significantly reinforced.

*The rubber covers over the flash  and sync ports are a  more robust material.

*Ultra Focus is now in it's second iteration.

Killer App 1
*GPS capability is now enabled with the GPS unit, which plugs into the left side of the camera body. While some may yawn at this feature (thinking aerial photography), there are actually quite a number of different applications for this feature. Scouting is an obvious one. The ability to GPS search for that street with the cool door you used as a background comes to mind, and I imagine users will find new uses for this feature. From the new Phocus software, Google Earth automatically launches from the software and the location can be mapped and all files shot with those coordinates can be brought up with a simple command. Very cool. The GPS unit is compatible with H3DII and backward compatible with the H3D, H2D and any Hasselblad CF or CFH on H2 camera. Pricing is not yet set but should be announced shortly.

*Enhanced menu access is now available by double clicking the release button. This enables complete control of the digital back menu in the back via the thumb-wheel dials surrounding the camera grip. Very nice. This is backward compatible to the original H3D. Also, the Drive button has been replaced with ISO/WB, so you can set ISO/WB directly without any menus. Not sure where Drive settings went. This function is backward compatible with every Hasselblad digital capture unit combined with any H camera.

*You can now display battery status by double clicking the light button on the camera. Not only does it show a graphical view of remaining battery life, it gives you the actual percentage. Yeah!

Phocus Software
I spent some time with Phocus. Like Capture One, it has also adopted a very Lightoom/Aperture look and approach. This, I think is a good thing in some ways, one being that learning curves for these software packages should be reduced due to familiarity with the latter applications.

Most of what you can do in Flexcolor seems to be present in Phocus. What is different is obviously, the interface, the ability to rez images 100% in preview mode, ability to compare multiple images, much more intensive metadata input mode, ability to operate from multiple folders, ability to drag -n-drop thumbnails to those folders, ability to freely re-size thumbnails just by grabbing and pulling, etc.

*Killer App 2
I was shown a new Anti-Moire tool. If this tool works the way that I saw it on all images with the problem, this is a true killer app for Hasselblad. What I saw was amazing in how color moire and pattern moire were eliminated. This is accomplished directly on the raw file - before any raw conversion takes place. What's more, this tool will be able to be used on any legacy .fff files from any Imacon/Hasselblad capture unit.

*Niche Killer App
With the new Phocus software, an H3D camera can be manually or auto-focused from the software. This then becomes a great solution when combined with Live Video for complete control of the camera from the software.

Phocus will enable exposure times up to 64 seconds and extend the ISO range by one stop on all Hasselblad products going back to the iXpress series. It is likely the lack of noise will be superior in the newer H-based product, but the fact that someone who bought an iXpress 132C four years ago now has ISO 800 and 64 second capability FOR FREE is, I think, very significant.

Other Goodies
Spare backup bodies are now an option for H3D-II, H2D. I assume H3D, but the data is unclear. Not sure why there would be available backup body for H2D and not H3D, so for now, I am assuming H3D too, but it is not confirmed.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141424\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Steve,


I just got the peace to read through your post. Lets start by saying thanks! Very much appreciated you take the time to sum up new features.

Great to hear the new software has a killer anti-moire tool. This will save time for me on virtually every assigment!

The extended ISO range and exposure time is very welcomed! Any ideas about the noise reduction that has to come with both. Has that undergone any change (read: improvement)?

One other thing that is annoying the hell out of me. The histogram on the CF back. When I compare it with Leaf it is horrible. Leaf has a very nice and clear histogram together with the option of showing how much over or under you are. The CF has a histogram where it is very difficult to see where your endpoints are and can only show areas that are (almost) blown out. Any improvements in this? Probably when there is, this will not come along with the firmware update (hope..hope..hope..).
Title: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: Mark_Tucker on September 24, 2007, 07:46:14 am
Quote
So then why do you think they stick with these inferior screens? Why, when the picture gets painted here and everywhere that it's so easy to do this - just buy a bunch from the local Best Buy or whatever - why do they not do it? Why, when putting a hot screen on the back of a MFDB would immediately give them an easily quantifiable edge over their competitors do they not do it?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141452\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Steve,

Obviously, I'm just a bit sensitive when it comes to LCD screens. I started out, with digital, with a 1ds, and while it was small, when you looked at it, you could "feel" the light. Then I wrote a much larger check for Phase, and while the size of the check went radically up, the quality of the LCD went radically down.

Then, I see ads for Leaf, and Yair's stripping in images into the LCD area, and then later, he's actually got three-dimensional little people actually jumping out of the screens.

It just makes me wonder sometimes if these manufacturers really know the FEAR that surrounds the quality of the LCD. When you're doing major lighting situations, with six or eight heads, or if you're doing backlit situations, with window light flare, it's crucial that a photographer be able to perceive the subtleties in light quality. Sometimes I wonder if they don't just think, "Oh, they're shooting RAW; they'll be able to fix it in post; all they need to do is get close". This is true about the overall exposure, but where it gets tough is when you're judging window light, or the relation of one head to another, in a scene.

When you don't have Polaroid any more, you've got to be able to have a large quality screen. I'd love to give one of these manufacturers one of those old-timey NPC Polaroid backs that mounted onto a 35mm film camera, and let them shoot a lighting job, and light the set by using 35mm Polaroid. Maybe then, they'd understand the fear.

While shooting tethered is an obvious solution to this, sometimes you just don't want that Ball-And-Chain magliner cart behind you, fitted with the G5 or Imac, battery backups, backup drives, etc. At that point, the LCD becomes VERY IMPORTANT.

Don't get me wrong, I applaud Hasselblad for using their business acumen to acquire the 3" LCDs, whether they got them in Queens or wherever. The important thing is they GOT THEM. Hasselblad continues to make progress; my prediction is, they'll be the only man standing, in medium format.
Title: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: pss on September 24, 2007, 02:05:36 pm
the screen issue still amazes me....of course there are minimum orders...if you want to pay 1$/unit....if you are selling a 30000$ camera it really should not matter if you have to pay 50$ per unit....

looks like this is the P+ version of the H3D....which brings up what someone else asked here: how is the image quality? any better?....probably not, an extra stop (which means less noise) added features, a better (but still how much more useable, really?) screen...the real improvements will come with the next generation chips....

the GREAT news about all this is the free upgrades to loyal users and that all this does not seem to come at any added cost.....are you listening phase? if hasslblad can give older backs an extra stop, so could phase....the P20 could do 800....but phase chooses to charge 8000$! for this.....truly a joke.....

a moire removal that works sounds great.....i really haven't had any moire problems since i got the P30, but phase is lagging on this one as well.....i guess adobe will come up with something for LR anyway.....
Title: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: jonstewart on September 24, 2007, 02:42:55 pm
Quote
Jon:

Well, there are no new sensors that will be hitting the street for some time, so as has been the case with Leaf and with Phase One earlier in the year, Hasselblad has focused on making improvements in other areas.

Leaf increased speed, and Phase One increased long exposure, ISO and provided an improved LCD screen.

There will be ISO and noise improvements - ISO now going to max 1600 and long exposure to 64 seconds - you may also find noise overall is reduced in general. It is notable, that this improvement will cost nothing to existing Hasselblad users. All Hasselblad users from the 4 year old iXpress backs foreward will benefit from the extra stop of ISO, the longer exposures and the reduced noise.

I did not view any of this because these changes will be in association with the release of Phocus. In the past year, Hasselblad has increased capture speeds and (now) ISO and long exposure at ZERO cost to their existing users. These enhancements have all been produced through software/firmware upgrades which are free. I feel that is very significant.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141448\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'm happy that there are minor tweaks, and that those are considered to be an improvement. As someone else pointed out, it does seem similar to  the recent Phase upgrades. I also like the fact that loyal customers are getting some upgrade for nothing, but I wonder whether this promotes a culture of 'jam tomorrow' ie Buy a certain make not because of what it can do now, but the feature set it can have at some point in the future. Nice marketing strategy, if it doesn't backfire.

I wholeheartedly agree that little is going to change until bigger sensors arrive, and lastly, thanks for posting that summary: I did appreciate it, even if it didn't sound like that!
Title: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: godtfred on September 24, 2007, 04:39:54 pm
Quote
how is the image quality? any better?....probably not
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141598\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
There is a newly designed IR filter, it may change the image quality (for better or worse...)

Anyways, I don't see HB images standing back on IQ from any of the competitors. They all have their areas of "best performance" and their share of weaknesses.

-axel
Title: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: BernardLanguillier on September 24, 2007, 07:26:24 pm
Quote
the screen issue still amazes me....of course there are minimum orders...if you want to pay 1$/unit....if you are selling a 30000$ camera it really should not matter if you have to pay 50$ per unit....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141598\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

One more area where the MFDB manufacturers could benefit a lot from collaborating with each others instead of playing solo...

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: LA30 on September 24, 2007, 09:03:38 pm
When I look at the back of my P30+ I am looking to see if the eyes are open or closed, that's it.  The screen sucks.  I should just "polaroid" with my 5D.  What the hell phase?!!

Ken
Title: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: jjj on September 24, 2007, 11:14:15 pm
Quote
I always thought the screen thing was a heat related issue - a significant change in all the backs seems to be heat management from CCD's as CMOS runs much cooler. I guess improved power management would help as well.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141481\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
When I spoke to a Hasselblad rep in 2005 about the crappy screen that was on a par with a 2000 P+S camera, I was given some dubious sounding marketing woffle about heat. Didn't buy into it myself. Making camera back very slightly deeper woud have solved issue described and would have made very little, if any noticable difference to size.
Using a H3 this year, I could check framing but screen was a bit useless otherwise.

Mind you the Canon S60 Screen was better than a 5D's screen for for checking focus. That could be software related though. Both shooting RAW BTW.
Title: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: RobertJ on September 25, 2007, 12:32:51 am
The MF back makers need to learn how to make a screen like the new Nikons have.  Those screens are pure sex.
Title: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: Chris_Brown on September 26, 2007, 11:34:09 am
Quote
While Canon, and every other Terry Richardson point-and-shoot companies are using 3 inch LCDs, and probably larger ones soon, these MF companies are crying like a baby, and using 2.2 inch units, and they're looking like fools. They can't see the forest for the trees. The size of the LCD is a BIG DEAL, and so is the quality of it. Not every job has the luxury of being able to shoot tethered, if you're out in a field somewhere and not able to drag a kart and a Honda.[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=141432\")
I don't know who buys/design for the MFDB companies but Nikon's new LCD design blows Canon's away. A nice comparison is [a href=\"http://www.dpreview.com/previews/nikond3/page3.asp]here[/url] (scroll halfway down the page).
Title: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: Mark_Tucker on September 26, 2007, 12:54:07 pm
Quote
A nice comparison is here (http://www.dpreview.com/previews/nikond3/page3.asp) (scroll halfway down the page).
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141961\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'd love to see the Phase LCD and the Leaf LCD also photographed side by side, next to this new Nikon LCD.

Maybe then, Yair might think twice about the ads he's running for Leaf.

Because if you saw them side by side, the only thing jumping out of the Leaf's screen might be the customer's hand and middle finger, flipping off the Leaf company for running such ads.

Again, if you're lighting a room, and really needing to see how the light feels, and you don't want to shoot tethered, the quality and size of the LCD is vitally important. I can't stress that enough. I'm not sure any of these companies understand that. And in my opinion, they belittle the fact by running false advertising that is so laughable that it's an affront to most any professional photographer.
Title: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: Photomangreg on September 26, 2007, 03:25:42 pm
Quote
I'd love to see the Phase LCD and the Leaf LCD also photographed side by side, next to this new Nikon LCD.

Maybe then, Yair might think twice about the ads he's running for Leaf.

Because if you saw them side by side, the only thing jumping out of the Leaf's screen might be the customer's hand and middle finger, flipping off the Leaf company for running such ads.

Again, if you're lighting a room, and really needing to see how the light feels, and you don't want to shoot tethered, the quality and size of the LCD is vitally important. I can't stress that enough. I'm not sure any of these companies understand that. And in my opinion, they belittle the fact by running false advertising that is so laughable that it's an affront to most any professional photographer.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141978\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I almost find it unbelievable that I am reading this, if you are going to schlep lights, stands, tripod, grip equipment, camera and lenses, why not bring along a laptop???!!!  You're willing to give your client a second rate file because you're too lazy to bring along a laptop, and then you put your name on the image!!  I guess in time this will help all of us other photographers as you will start losing clients who don't give a damn about how the screen looks, they're going to actually care about the final file!
Title: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: TechTalk on September 26, 2007, 05:26:32 pm
Quote
This past Friday I attended the Hasselbald Dealer Summit for the Americas in Santa Monica, CA.

This is a hands-on report from my experience with the camera and my discussions with Hasselblad management:

*Killer App 2
I was shown a new Anti-Moire tool. If this tool works the way that I saw it on all images with the problem, this is a true killer app for Hasselblad. What I saw was amazing in how color moire and pattern moire were eliminated. This is accomplished directly on the raw file - before any raw conversion takes place. What's more, this tool will be able to be used on any legacy .fff files from any Imacon/Hasselblad capture unit.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141424\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Great report Steve. Thanks for taking the time and effort!

Two questions... 1) How is the anti-moire tool used? A brush? 2) Is the anti-moire tool for dealing with pattern moire a separate tool?
Title: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: pprdigital on September 26, 2007, 07:02:31 pm
Quote
Great report Steve. Thanks for taking the time and effort!

Two questions... 1) How is the anti-moire tool used? A brush? 2) Is the anti-moire tool for dealing with pattern moire a separate tool?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=142050\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

There is a simple slider - no selections are necessary, and color and pattern moire are removed with this one slider. I don't understand the slider concept if it works as well as it seemed to - either you want it gone or not. But it does apply itself to the raw image seamlessly and also can be used on legacy .fff files.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
Title: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: pprdigital on September 26, 2007, 07:37:23 pm
Quote
There is a simple slider - no selections are necessary, and color and pattern moire are removed with this one slider. I don't understand the slider concept if it works as well as it seemed to - either you want it gone or not. But it does apply itself to the raw image seamlessly and also can be used on legacy .fff files.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=142065\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Reconsulting my notes - the anti-moire tool will actually be a simple on/off - no slider.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
Title: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: thsinar on September 26, 2007, 08:40:04 pm
Captureshop has this feature built-in since ages, "Software Anti-Moiré": a slider which works like a filter over the WHOLE image. You have to be carefull not to use it too strongly and at the maximum, since it might de-saturate some colours (I guess this will be the same with this new Hasselblad feature).

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote
There is a simple slider - no selections are necessary, and color and pattern moire are removed with this one slider. I don't understand the slider concept if it works as well as it seemed to - either you want it gone or not. But it does apply itself to the raw image seamlessly and also can be used on legacy .fff files.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=142065\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: TechTalk on September 26, 2007, 08:46:51 pm
Quote
Captureshop has this feature built-in since ages, "Software Anti-Moiré": a slider which works like a filter over the WHOLE image. You have to be carefull not to use it too strongly and at the maximum, since it might de-saturate some colours (I guess this will be the same with this new Hasselblad feature).

Best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=142087\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thierry,

Does this remove pattern moire as well?

Steve Hendrix has seen both. Are they similar Steve?
Title: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: thsinar on September 26, 2007, 08:53:02 pm
Yes, this software tool is meant to remove Moiré

ADDENDUM: sorry, I misread the question. Yes, there are basically 2 tools to remove either "colour" Moiré or  "pattern" Moiré (Luminance Moiré).

The "pattern" Anti-Moiré tool is a harware anti-moiré feature which can be set with a slider, acting like a "softening" (or anti-aliasing) filter.

Best,
Thierry

Quote
Thierry,

Does this remove pattern moire as well?

Steve Hendrix has seen both. Are they similar Steve?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=142090\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: pprdigital on September 27, 2007, 12:21:39 pm
Quote
Yes, this software tool is meant to remove Moiré

ADDENDUM: sorry, I misread the question. Yes, there are basically 2 tools to remove either "colour" Moiré or  "pattern" Moiré (Luminance Moiré).

The "pattern" Anti-Moiré tool is a harware anti-moiré feature which can be set with a slider, acting like a "softening" (or anti-aliasing) filter.

Best,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=142092\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

While the Siinar tools can be effective, they work in a completely different way than the Hasselblad tool. I will certainly do some comparative testing. But what I saw from the Hasselblad Phocus moire remover was very impressive.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
Title: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: pprdigital on September 27, 2007, 12:23:31 pm
There is also something very important I neglected to mention with regard to the H3D-II.

The H3D-II is shipping now. Not seven months from the announcement. Now.

We expect our demo units within a week.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
Title: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: pss on September 27, 2007, 12:45:08 pm
Quote
Yes, this software tool is meant to remove Moiré

ADDENDUM: sorry, I misread the question. Yes, there are basically 2 tools to remove either "colour" Moiré or  "pattern" Moiré (Luminance Moiré).

The "pattern" Anti-Moiré tool is a harware anti-moiré feature which can be set with a slider, acting like a "softening" (or anti-aliasing) filter.

Best,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=142092\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

with all due respect...phase, leaf, sinar, hasselblad,....they have all always had some kind of pattern/moire sliders/button......the question is how well do they work? do they work on raw?.....after reading steve's report i was excited, it sounded like a really new and improved solution to a really old problem.....now it seems like steve isn't so sure and it is just a on/off button....not sure how that is supposed to work without color desaturation and all the other problems we have seen with the software solutions so far.....
i guess we will have to wait and see....but i am very scetical that a simple on/off switch can solve this.....
Title: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: TechTalk on September 27, 2007, 08:42:48 pm
Quote
not sure how that is supposed to work without color desaturation and all the other problems we have seen with the software solutions so far.....
i guess we will have to wait and see....but i am very scetical that a simple on/off switch can solve this.....
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=142234\")
We will have to wait and see.

As stated by Steve and by Hasselblad, it is a one click operation that works directly on the RAW data before any RAW conversion takes place. [a href=\"http://www.hasselbladusa.com/promotions/phocus.aspx]Link to Phocus[/url]

One passing thought on how software might be able to automatically detect and correct an unwanted pattern, like moire, is by pattern recognition. Work is being done in this area. Image Correction Pattern Recognition Link (http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20020150291.html)

I have NO idea what method is being used in what Hasselblad is developing. Based on Steve's report, I'll look forward to seeing the results.
Title: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: thsinar on September 28, 2007, 03:08:20 am
So it is, Paul, there can be no miracle with "Pattern" Moiré.

Since this kind of Moiré affects the Luminance channel (also called Luminance Moiré), it is therefore not that easy to remove this kind of Moiré simply by "bluring" without affecting the overall sharpness.

Colour Moiré is a completely other issue and can be dealt with more "easily". But desaturation of colours is here the danger, if applied too strongly.

While "Colour Moiré" appears only in 1-shot images (not in multishot mode), "Pattern Moiré" can appear in both 1- and multishot captures.

It would be interesting to know how this new software from Hasselblad deals with both types of Moiré with the same tool.

If anybody knows, please feel free to post.

Thanks and best regards,
Thierry



Quote
with all due respect...phase, leaf, sinar, hasselblad,....they have all always had some kind of pattern/moire sliders/button......the question is how well do they work? do they work on raw?.....after reading steve's report i was excited, it sounded like a really new and improved solution to a really old problem.....now it seems like steve isn't so sure and it is just a on/off button....not sure how that is supposed to work without color desaturation and all the other problems we have seen with the software solutions so far.....
i guess we will have to wait and see....but i am very scetical that a simple on/off switch can solve this.....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=142234\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: TechTalk on September 28, 2007, 11:58:24 am
Quote
So it is, Paul, there can be no miracle with "Pattern" Moiré.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=142370\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
So, if it does really work the way that Steve described, in the sample he saw, you will be describing that here as a miracle?

I'm afraid there may be some if Hasselblad developed a tool that removed color and pattern moire and at the same time made your morning coffee, freshened your breath and cured cancer–they still wouldn't see any value in it. (You, of course, would not be in that group Thierry)

Time, as always, will tell.
Title: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: pss on September 28, 2007, 09:10:01 pm
Quote
So, if it does really work the way that Steve described, in the sample he saw, you will be describing that here as a miracle?

I'm afraid there may be some if Hasselblad developed a tool that removed color and pattern moire and at the same time made your morning coffee, freshened your breath and cured cancer–they still wouldn't see any value in it. (You, of course, would not be in that group Thierry)

Time, as always, will tell.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=142445\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

hey...all it needs to do is get rid of moire..color and pattern.....not sure about you, but i have lived and dealt with this problem through several backs, cameras and manufacturers....with sometimes pretty great results...and i can say that if hasselblad did all of a sudden come up with a one button solution, it woul be a miracle....

the real question is: if this software solution is so smart that it can tell unwanted pattern from wanted and correct for different colors in different images differently and does all this intelligently and well.....why a button? who would want moire?
Title: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: thsinar on September 28, 2007, 10:24:40 pm
I wouldn't, since it is certainly possible to have such a tool "filtering" on BOTH Moiré types but then, is there an effect on general quality/sharpness/colours, etc ..., and how much?

I think it needs to be tested, as Steve mentioned.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote
So, if it does really work the way that Steve described, in the sample he saw, you will be describing that here as a miracle?

I'm afraid there may be some if Hasselblad developed a tool that removed color and pattern moire and at the same time made your morning coffee, freshened your breath and cured cancer–they still wouldn't see any value in it. (You, of course, would not be in that group Thierry)

Time, as always, will tell.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=142445\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: TechTalk on September 28, 2007, 10:53:48 pm
Quote
hey...all it needs to do is get rid of moire..color and pattern.....not sure about you, but i have lived and dealt with this problem through several backs, cameras and manufacturers....with sometimes pretty great results...and i can say that if hasselblad did all of a sudden come up with a one button solution, it woul be a miracle....

the real question is: if this software solution is so smart that it can tell unwanted pattern from wanted and correct for different colors in different images differently and does all this intelligently and well.....why a button? who would want moire?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=142530\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
It's really amazing that the RAW conversion software that we use is able to build a full RGB image from RAW data that is missing 75% of the needed red and blue information and half of the green. The ability of software to supply 2/3 of the color data in our images is remarkable, but imperfect. This is why we like to be able to store and work with untouched RAW data. No one setup or solution is right 100% of the time for every image for everyone.

The answer for why have an on/off button for any tool at our disposal is to preserve the RAW data. If the new anti-moire tool is effective in 70% or 80% or 90% of images, you would still want to be able to turn it off for those images where it is not effective.

Plus, if there were no on/off button to show before and after results. Some would say the moire was never there to begin with and accuse Hasselblad of insane marketing hype.
Title: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: TechTalk on September 28, 2007, 11:04:01 pm
Quote
I wouldn't, since it is certainly possible to have such a tool "filtering" on BOTH Moiré types but then, is there an effect on general quality/sharpness/colours, etc ..., and how much?

I think it needs to be tested, as Steve mentioned.

Best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=142540\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
You're correct of course. It does need to be tested and on a variety of images.

We wouldn't want to dismiss someting as impossible until we've seen it–would we? I wouldn't want to assume that however it works, that it is equally effective on every image.
Title: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: mtomalty on September 28, 2007, 11:15:43 pm
Steve

Thanks for the overview from last weeks event.

One thing that I haven't noticed mentioned anywhere is whether Hasselblad
brought forward any potential solutions or products in developpment that addressed
many MFDB users need for simple,compact tilt/shift corrections.

i.e.,any tilt/shirt lenses in the pipeline

Thanks,
Mark
Title: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: pprdigital on September 29, 2007, 10:20:08 am
Quote
Steve

Thanks for the overview from last weeks event.

One thing that I haven't noticed mentioned anywhere is whether Hasselblad
brought forward any potential solutions or products in developpment that addressed
many MFDB users need for simple,compact tilt/shift corrections.

i.e.,any tilt/shirt lenses in the pipeline

Thanks,
Mark
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=142551\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Mark:

I do have some information there, but all I could say at this time would be that it has been rumored and assumed that Hasselblad is attempting tilt/shift lens solutions, and it is quite possible we could see a product at some point, but at this stage - if the rumors were true - then that project would be considered still under development.

Couchy enough? At any rate, no announcement yet.

Steve Hendrix
www.ppratlanta.com/digital.php
Title: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: mtomalty on September 29, 2007, 04:19:06 pm
Fair enough.  Thanks
Title: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: pixelpro on September 30, 2007, 04:51:48 pm
Photomangreg says "you're too lazy to bring along a laptop"

I also don't understand what the fuss is about a 3" LCD screen on the H3DII. Firstly the laptop is essential to see the image properly. You see nothing on the tiny LCD screen. Its only good enough to see the histogram. In practical terms the size of the LCD screen is not material.
Title: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: jing q on September 30, 2007, 05:12:04 pm
Quote
Photomangreg says "you're too lazy to bring along a laptop"

I also don't understand what the fuss is about a 3" LCD screen on the H3DII. Firstly the laptop is essential to see the image properly. You see nothing on the tiny LCD screen. Its only good enough to see the histogram. In practical terms the size of the LCD screen is not material.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=142979\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

some of us shoot untethered, and humans. We try to avoid spending time looking at a laptop.
if you've used a DSLR and seen the screen before then you can't live without a good screen after that.
Title: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: pss on September 30, 2007, 07:21:09 pm
Quote
some of us shoot untethered, and humans. We try to avoid spending time looking at a laptop.
if you've used a DSLR and seen the screen before then you can't live without a good screen after that.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=142985\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

you can tell just as much from a crappy 2 or 3" (i agree, makes no difference, but if someone held a gun to my head i would take the 3":) ) screen then from a DSLR screen....the DSLR screen looks better, the files are more limited.....there is just no way that a screen that fits on a DMFB can show the subtelties the back can produce...heck my MBP screen can't show them....that is the whole point...
but i agree in general that all DMFBs should have a 5" OLED on the back....

the leaf valeo  solution i had with the bluetooth ipaq was actually pretty good...people love to hold the ipaq and see the previews come in...it was the closest thing to a polaroid and still a lot easier to manuveur then a laptop or imac.....of course there were some connection problems from time to time, but all in all it was a nifty little solution....
Title: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: Mark_Tucker on October 01, 2007, 09:13:55 am
Quote
.....there is just no way that a screen that fits on a DMFB can show the subtelties the back can produce...heck my MBP screen can't show them....that is the whole point...
but i agree in general that all DMFBs should have a 5" OLED on the back....
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=143016\")

I'll gladly settle for the 11" OLED LCD on the back of the next generation MFDB.

[a href=\"http://tinyurl.com/3xapp2]http://tinyurl.com/3xapp2[/url]

Seriously, what I'd love to see would be a refined version of that IPaq approach, where the unit would be like a tablet, and it would run on its own rechargeable battery, and there would be maybe a six foot (extendable) cable that would connect the tablet to the back, similar to the VideoOut function of the Canon.

Yes, for many paying jobs, no doubt you'd bring a laptop or an Imac. But on some personal work, with no client present, you still might want to go out far less emcumbered, with much more freedom. But even then, I could see the need to really SEE what you're shooting. I'd gladly pay an additional five or six grand for this tablet unit. It would be small enough to be stored right inside the camera bag, instead of requiring a whole other Pelican case to be checked on the plane, like the laptop and related cables do.

I'm not a software guy, and I have no idea how large the Preview file would have to be, to show detail. I'm assuming about 900 pixels by 600 pixels at 72dpi, roughly, if it was a JPG document. What I also like is that the same company would make both units -- the back and the tablet -- so it could be thoroughly tested, instead of, say, Phase making the back, but Apple making the laptop, and then when something goes haywire, you don't know who's at fault. If Phase made both the back and the tablet, the testing could be done by one company.

I just know, in my line of work, there are MANY times when you're out on location, on a rocky mountain or something, and the last thing you want to do is drag around a laptop and Honda generator.

Just a suggestion.
Title: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: Morgan_Moore on October 01, 2007, 02:12:21 pm
Quote
I'll gladly settle for the 11" OLED LCD on the back of the next generation MFDB.

http://tinyurl.com/3xapp2 (http://tinyurl.com/3xapp2)

Seriously, what I'd love to see would be a refined version of that IPaq approach, where the unit would be like a tablet, and it would run on its own rechargeable battery, and there would be maybe a six foot (extendable) cable that would connect the tablet to the back, similar to the VideoOut function of the Canon.

Yes, for many paying jobs, no doubt you'd bring a laptop or an Imac. But on some personal work, with no client present, you still might want to go out far less emcumbered, with much more freedom. But even then, I could see the need to really SEE what you're shooting. I'd gladly pay an additional five or six grand for this tablet unit. It would be small enough to be stored right inside the camera bag, instead of requiring a whole other Pelican case to be checked on the plane, like the laptop and related cables do.

I'm not a software guy, and I have no idea how large the Preview file would have to be, to show detail. I'm assuming about 900 pixels by 600 pixels at 72dpi, roughly, if it was a JPG document. What I also like is that the same company would make both units -- the back and the tablet -- so it could be thoroughly tested, instead of, say, Phase making the back, but Apple making the laptop, and then when something goes haywire, you don't know who's at fault. If Phase made both the back and the tablet, the testing could be done by one company.

I just know, in my line of work, there are MANY times when you're out on location, on a rocky mountain or something, and the last thing you want to do is drag around a laptop and Honda generator.

Just a suggestion.
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I dont know even if you need 11 inch screen

depend if you are checking sharpness or composition

software analysis of the image could

show the whole image and zoom into the sharp bit

so you would get the image then a sort of slide show of bits of it

with a D3 standard screen just half an inch bigger than the 'back would be cool

It could even be mounted with a small airgap to cut the mythical 'screen heat equals noise' mostly from the equation

Oh and a small sensor would turn it off as you moved your eye to the eyepeice unless live view was being used



S
Title: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: BJNY on October 01, 2007, 02:56:29 pm
Taking it a few steps forward, the screen should be like the ones in camcorders, able to be flipped out and twistable.  That would be incredibly useful for low camera angle situations, and for another party to be monitoring the captures.

Credit: I believe I first heard this idea from my friend, George F.
Title: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: josayeruk on October 01, 2007, 02:59:37 pm
Quote
Oh and a small sensor would turn it off as you moved your eye to the eyepeice unless live view was being used

S
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=143196\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

When you use an H2D/H3D bringing the camera back up to your eye and half pressing the shutter kills the display so it is not shining bright in your face.    

Jo S.x
Title: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: Kumar on October 01, 2007, 05:44:19 pm
Perhaps Sinar could bring back the CyberKit! http://www.matrix.cz/profifoto/PDFS/sinar_sinarback44.pdf (http://www.matrix.cz/profifoto/PDFS/sinar_sinarback44.pdf)

Cheers,
Kumar
Title: Re: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: amband on November 14, 2010, 02:24:22 pm
it could be the Hasselblad is not the camera it used to be.  Pentax 645D and the Mamiya a fine cameras.

Maybe Hasselblad survives on it's name?
Title: Re: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: fredjeang on November 14, 2010, 02:59:00 pm
I am very happy to see here Mark Tucker. He has been a strong influence in my work and still is.

Well, I was reading the all thread and it's been a long time now we, and we in all the world's forums, are asking for this mystical magical lcd.

But my question is, why MF makers would take the lcd seriously if their design is based on tether? (I hate tether).
Whatever tablets or computers, if we are "obliged" to tether or let's say gently invited to, and I wish we where not, what the lcd will bring? To be able to show the shot to the AD?
But the AD is already busy with the screen or the new gadgets, so LCD if the goal is to be free of devices I aplaude.

By the way, the Pentax 645D who has a decent lcd did not even took any interest for tether according to the infos here. To me, it is also a mistake. We should be able to choose the configuration and not obliged to.

Sorry...invited to...
Title: Re: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: eronald on November 14, 2010, 04:17:17 pm
I too am very happy to see Mark here under his full name. I learnt a lot from his RG posts.

Now, concerning LCDs etc, you know, I wonder whether big LCDs are really so necessary for *the photographer*. Yes, they allow one to see the shot. But maybe, just maybe, you shouldn't be seeing the shot, because once you've seen the shot you've killed the shot. I'm not sure I'm making sense here, so let me try again: A few years ago I suddenly realized I had mastered the technique of photography, within the limits of my boring imagination. I would have an idea, and I could go home, choose my gear, make the shot, and it would look like what I imagined. I really really hated that.

Edmund

Title: Re: Hands-on Report on Hasselblad H3D-II
Post by: Nick-T on November 14, 2010, 08:03:19 pm
Ahh 2007..

Nice to see Steve singing the praises of Hasselblad :D