Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: rdonson on September 07, 2007, 08:43:19 pm
-
I just wanted to let Z3100 users know about a wiki for the printer that Sean Pucket created.
Z3100 wiki (http://z3100users.wikispaces.com/)
I think its a great place to store information about the printer so that its easier to find than searches of this forum.
With Sean's help I've started to add some content. I just added pages on APS, Tech Newsletters and Z3100 docs. I'm hoping that other Z3100 owners will add content or comments or suggest things to me that they'd like to see in the wiki. There's a lot of good info in the forum that I'd like to capture and place in the wiki.
Once the new firmware arrives I think there's going to be a flurry of learning and the desire to share info on paper types, ink limiting, profiles etc.
Comments, suggestions?
-
The Z3100 Wiki looks really useful, you have a good start.
I have been saving tips from the forum in a database and would be happy to add some of them to the Wiki if that is OK?
Gary
-
The Z3100 Wiki looks really useful, you have a good start.
I have been saving tips from the forum in a database and would be happy to add some of them to the Wiki if that is OK?
Gary
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=138083\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Gary, please feel free to add content. That's what wiki's are all about. Let me know if you run into any problems. I'll be happy to help.
-
Wiki looks great and something that was missing.
Ron, do you think you should be having different sections for the Z3100 different models, like ps non ps and on top of that different firmware, operating systems, ethernet or USB? Or maybe users of the wiki after each tip or problem they can mention printer model, firmware and operating system...
George
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=138143\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
That's a number of good ideas, George. In the "Media Results" Sean already included firmware but I think its a great idea to make sure that we reference OS, firmware, models, etc. in what we add there.
-
Ron -
Thanks for this. It's a good start.
One thing needs addressing though, given the issues we’ve seen with the oil being sold by PartsHere, you may want to delete that link and redirect to the HP web site instead.
Mike
-
Ron -
Thanks for this. It's a good start.
One thing needs addressing though, given the issues we’ve seen with the oil being sold by PartsHere, you may want to delete that link and redirect to the HP web site instead.
Mike
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=138430\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Good idea, Mike. I'll do that tonight.
-
Hey Ron -
I just downloaded the tif images of the two types of profile targets you put up on the Wiki -
Wow - what a huge difference in the amount of colors. That is really helpful to be able to see the difference.
So a question:
How small a sheet can the APS profile on?
Thanks for posting that - and I noticed the Epson Enhanced Matte profile as well - great.
Mark
-
Hey Mark,
I'm glad you found the posted targets helpful. I was hoping that people might see the difference just as you did.
APS 1.3 can profile using A3 sheets, I believe. Neil Snape has more knowledge on exactly how small it can go. I can't imagine trying to profile a TC9.18 target from many sheets of letter sized paper but someone may think that's a good idea.
I was going to create another Epson Enhanced Matte profile using with Litho-Realistic or Fine Art paper types to improve the reds but decided to wait as its being reported that the new firmware is very close to being released.
After the new firmware I hope to share more profiles.
-
How small a sheet can the APS profile on?
Mark
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=140088\")
In another thread Neil reports he can print down to A4 (basically 8.5x11).
This [a href=\"http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=19619]thread.[/url]
-
In another thread Neil reports he can print down to A4 (basically 8.5x11).
This thread. (http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=19619)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=140246\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Yes - I saw that - very cool.
I'm trying to decide if I should go for the APS - it's very tempting.
Appreciate the help you guys are giving-
Mark
-
APS 1.3 can profile using A3 sheets, I believe. Neil Snape has more knowledge on exactly how small it can go. I can't imagine trying to profile a TC9.18 target from many sheets of letter sized paper but someone may think that's a good idea.
I was looking for some inexpensive paper to practice with so I bought a box of HP Advanced Photo Paper (Glossy) and a box of HP Everyday Matte, both 8 1/2 x 11. I profiled both papers using the largest APS target (TC9.18?).
Here's how APS handles small paper: it prompts you for one sheet at a time until it's printed the entire set of colors, then prompts you to feed them back in one at a time to scan them. For 8 1/2 x 11 paper, that's 6 sheets per profile. I think it's great that the system is smart enough to do this.
This may be obvious, but when you feed the printed sheets back in to the printer, they go in the same way they came out when you were printing them - with the color edge first and the edge nearest the printing last. This is the opposite of the direction implied by the diagram displayed by APS. If you feed them the wrong way, no harm is done - the system is smart enough to error out and you get to try again.
The advantage of profiling small sheets is that you learn patience, and the paper has lots of time to dry between printing and scanning. The printer apparently warms up its light source before each sheet is scanned, which takes several minutes.
I doubt if anyone here is interested in cheap paper profiles, but you never know. I’ll be glad to share them if you tell me which files you need and how to put them on your Wiki.
-
Thanks so much for sharing the experience. It may be practical as sometimes its easier to test new paper in 8.5x11 sheets and as long as you get at least 25 sheets you've got enough to profile and play with.
Add your profiles to the wiki shouldn't be hard. You're already a member so the drill should be:
- go to the "Profiling and Profiles" page
- click on "edit this page"
- input your info into a row in the table - add your profile
- save the page
To upload the profile:
1. Press the green tree icon to insert images or files
2. A new window (images & files) pops up providing you the opportunity to find the file on your machine
3. Upload the file
4. Double click the new file (your profile) in the images & files window to add it to the page
(http://www.shutterfreaks.com/albums/album156/wiki_file_upload.jpg)
Let me know if this isn't clear. I'm happy to help.
-
I added a profile in the files section as in Safari the Wiki page doesn't look like Windows.
I would be glad to upload any APS profiles you like.
Ps the spectro doesn't actually warm up the lights which are LEDs. It does however a deep calibration including dark count , known as zeroing. A few other proprietary things necessary for the unique Z application of the spectro.
-
Thanks so much for sharing the experience.
You're welcome. And thanks to you for the Wiki!
It may be practical as sometimes its easier to test new paper in 8.5x11 sheets and as long as you get at least 25 sheets you've got enough to profile and play with.
These were 100-sheet boxes. Before my printer arrived I ordered samples from several different companies. I was disappointed to see that most companies included only 2 or 3 sheets of each type. Pretty useless as it turns out. Since they charged me for the samples, I wish they would have given me the option of paying a bit more and getting enough paper to be useful.
Let me know if this isn't clear. I'm happy to help.
I'm not sure what to enter for 'Perceptual Rendering' and 'Light Source'. I don't remember having to make either of these choices, and don't know enough yet to have made an intelligent choice anyway.
As I recall, perceptual rendering relates to intent in mapping from one color space to another, and light source would represent something like sunlight, incandescent , tungsten, etc. I'm not sure how D-number map to these (or if they do). Is this right?
I'm totally confused about color spaces and how RGB values relate to them. Once I've had a chance to read 'Color Confidence', which will be a while, I'll probably be back to ask pesky questions.
When I got into this, I knew there would be a lot of learning but I really had no idea how much! Good thing I can take my time and learn as I go...
-
Ps the spectro doesn't actually warm up the lights which are LEDs. It does however a deep calibration including dark count , known as zeroing. A few other proprietary things necessary for the unique Z application of the spectro.
Thanks for clearing that up, Neil.
-
I'm not sure what to enter for 'Perceptual Rendering' and 'Light Source'. I don't remember having to make either of these choices, and don't know enough yet to have made an intelligent choice anyway.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=140404\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
If you created profiles in APS the default for Perceptual Rendering is "neutral gray" and the default for Light Source is "D50". That's probably what you used.
-
As I recall, perceptual rendering relates to intent in mapping from one color space to another, and light source would represent something like sunlight, incandescent , tungsten, etc. I'm not sure how D-number map to these (or if they do). Is this right?
I'm totally confused about color spaces and how RGB values relate to them. Once I've had a chance to read 'Color Confidence', which will be a while, I'll probably be back to ask pesky questions.
When I got into this, I knew there would be a lot of learning but I really had no idea how much! Good thing I can take my time and learn as I go...
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=140404\")
The beauty of the Luminous Landscape is that we have a number of top notch CM gurus who follow some of these forums. I'm sure if you've got questions they'll get answered by some of the best brains around.
Perceptual rendering is about how to map colors that are out of gamut not from one color space to another.
[a href=\"http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/color-space-conversion.htm]Rendering Intents link 1[/url]
Rendering Intents link 2 (http://www.newsandtech.com/issues/2004/03-04/pt/03-04_rendering.htm)
D50 refers to the color temp of the light for example, D50 can be thought of as a 5000K light source. Wikipedia on color temp (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_temperature)
-
rdonson: Thanks for the information and pointers. Like I said, I've got a lot to learn . Luminous Landscape's a treasure!
I've uploaded my profiles:
HPAdvancedPhotoGlossGEOff.icc
HPEverydayPhotoMatte.icc.
Each of these files was 1,636 KB.
When I was looking for the profiles, I found 3 other files that I did not (conciously) create:
HP_Z3100_HPAdvancedPhotoGloss,GEON.icc
HP_Z3100_HPAdvancedPhotoGloss,GEOFF.icc
HP_Z3100_HPEverydayMatte.icc
Each of these files was severl hundred KB smaller than the profiles I uploaded. They were created on the same days that I profiled my paper.
Did I upload the right files (I think I did)? Do you know what these other files are for?
Thanks!
-
Thanks so much!!! You've uploaded the proper profiles. I'm not sure about the other profiles. The look about the same size as though supplied by HP. You can look at them as a text file and poke around to see what you learn about them.
-
Every time you calibrate or add a new media , two base profiles (GE on+GE off)are created if on a photo type surface. When creating APS profiles it's best to put APS in the title if you have room.
All APS rgb Tc9.18 profiles will be about 1800Kb or more. HP easy profiles are less than half of this, and have less precision in the grid tables.
-
Thanks, Neil!!! Great info.
-
I added a profile in the files section as in Safari the Wiki page doesn't look like Windows.
I would be glad to upload any APS profiles you like.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=140387\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Got it, Neil. Thanks! I got fooled for a little bit until I figured out it was a zip file. Can you edit the rest of the row with info now that I've placed it in the table?
I'll try Safari for Windoze and see how it works with the wiki.
-
OK, I can't speak for Safari on the Mac but Safari for Windoze doesn't work worth a dang on the wiki.
Neil, if you give me the info for the row with the Bamboo profile I'll put it in there.
Thanks again!!!
-
Every time you calibrate or add a new media , two base profiles (GE on+GE off)are created if on a photo type surface. When creating APS profiles it's best to put APS in the title if you have room.
Thanks, Neil. Do these files hold the calibration data?
In Windows, if you right click on an ICC file that has been installed, the context menu will have an item 'Uninstall Profile'. If the profile has not been installed, that item will be replaced with 'Install Profile'.
These 3 files display 'Install Profile', so I guess they're not installed (the APS profiles I created *are* installed). Should I install these 3 files as well or is everything as it should be?
-Leroy
-
I have done some reorganization on the Z3100 Wiki and linked to some of the critical LL threads to make it easier to find everything in one place. Since I am researching out the Z3100 vs Canon iPF6100 I figured I might as well update with the stuff I found while I was at it.
Since I am very familiar with Wikispaces (I created the Canon iPF5000 Wiki) I also made some improvements to the Navigation bar to the left so that you can more easily get around from any page.
--John
-
Every time you calibrate or add a new media , two base profiles (GE on+GE off)are created if on a photo type surface.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=140489\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
A question: If two profiles are created when making a new paper profile, why do I need to specify GE on or GE off when I create the profile with APS? Since it only prompts me to create one name after each profiling session, how am I able to get two distinct profiles out of the process to use later? Is the correct methodology to generate one profile and then use it with or without gloss enhancer? I currently make one profile with and one without as separate processes, if on a paper that might be used either way. Is this redundant?
Thanks, as always,
Ron H.
-
A question: If two profiles are created when making a new paper profile, why do I need to specify GE on or GE off when I create the profile with APS? Since it only prompts me to create one name after each profiling session, how am I able to get two distinct profiles out of the process to use later? Is the correct methodology to generate one profile and then use it with or without gloss enhancer? I currently make one profile with and one without as separate processes, if on a paper that might be used either way. Is this redundant?
Thanks, as always,
Ron H.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=143065\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
With APS you need to choose your mode, GE or not. When you save out the profile by default the name should indicate GE or not (unless that changed). In Print Center it is different. There , the profile will be printed, measured and created according to your mode choice, but there will be a fudged second profile by applying some math at run time when creating the profile to give you a quasi on/off secondary profile. In my testing I find the secondary profile to be of mediocre quality compared to the same made on the correct settings. Yet for networked computers it is just the same useful as an approximation for occasional use.
-
BTW Safari on Mac doesn't like Wiki much. I used Firefox to update the info. Looks like it is shaping up to a very useful place for info on the Z series.
-
BTW Safari on Mac doesn't like Wiki much. I used Firefox to update the info. Looks like it is shaping up to a very useful place for info on the Z series.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=143118\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thanks Neil. Safari on Windoze doesn't work well either. I use Firefox on Windoze and it works fine.
The wiki is shaping up. We've got more members and more people adding content now.