Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: oMoses on June 13, 2007, 12:42:37 pm
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PRESS RELEASE
Franke & Heidecke News
Brunswick, June 12, 2007
"Routine? Consider it done! Working magic, though, may take a little longer…"
The first Hy6 cameras were delivered to Jenoptik, Laser, Optik, Systeme GmbH for their Sinar subsidiary as well as to our customer Leaf with a delay of six weeks. The cameras will now be fitted with Sinar and Leaf digital backs and subjected to exten-sive testing as Sinar Hy6 and Leaf Afi, respectively.
Kind regards,
Oleg (aka oMoses (http://www.pbase.com/omoses))
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Thanks, oMoses, for the english translation!
This is great news!
Best regards,
-Brad
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Is there a reason why the three models shown in the photograph all have waist level finders? Is that the standard configuration that the camera ships with? If so, when will the 45 deg. finder be available and how much will it cost?
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The Hy6 undoubtedly awaits a great future. Designed for the 6x6cm negative size, it is predestined to handle future high-resolution 48x48mm sensors used in digital backs.
Hehe, in any case the H3D will not take 48x48 sensors.
Edmund
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Is there a reason why the three models shown in the photograph all have waist level finders? Is that the standard configuration that the camera ships with? If so, when will the 45 deg. finder be available and how much will it cost?
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Isn't that pretty much the standard for all non-645 MF cameras? The Hassy V series come with waist level finders. All RB and RZ67s come with waist level finders. I'm sure the Bronica GS-1 came with a waist level finder. Nothing has changed. The 45 degree finder has always been something you buy separately.
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The prism finder will be available by the time the camera is commercially released.
The cameras shows, as stated in the PR, were given to Sinar and Leaf for integration, testing and demonstrations and as such they are pre-production units.
Yair
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right, as a standard, the Sinar Hy6 will come with the waist level.
I have had this camera in hands today and made the first tests/shots: I won't say much, since you would say it comes from a Sinar guy, but you shall be surprised by its handling.
Thierry
Isn't that pretty much the standard for all non-645 MF cameras? The Hassy V series come with waist level finders. All RB and RZ67s come with waist level finders. I'm sure the Bronica GS-1 came with a waist level finder. Nothing has changed. The 45 degree finder has always been something you buy separately.
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Hi, Thierry,
I, for one, would love to hear what my favourite "Sinar guy" has to say about the handling!
Also, I've seen the 48x48mm-sized sensor mentioned in the press release. Would you happen to know if the maximum sensor size the Hy6 could handle is 56mm square, just like film?
Kind regards,
Brad
right, as a standard, the Sinar Hy6 will come with the waist level.
I have had this camera in hands today and made the first tests/shots: I won't say much, since you would say it comes from a Sinar guy, but you shall be surprised by its handling.
Thierry
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Isn't that pretty much the standard for all non-645 MF cameras? The Hassy V series come with waist level finders. All RB and RZ67s come with waist level finders. I'm sure the Bronica GS-1 came with a waist level finder. Nothing has changed. The 45 degree finder has always been something you buy separately.
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Do you think buyers of MF cameras with MFDBs shoot primarily with waist level finders or 45 deg. prisms? My guess is that there are an awful lot of potential customers for the Hy6 who would be quite put off by having to spend an extra $1500 or so for a 45 deg prism if that's the only way they would ever use the camera. I personally shoot with a tripod and find it "challenging" using a waist level finder shooting off a tripod.
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I tried to focus a Hassy recently, with a waistlevel, and found I simply couldn't do it anymore.
Edmund
Do you think buyers of MF cameras with MFDBs shoot primarily with waist level finders or 45 deg. prisms? My guess is that there are an awful lot of potential customers for the Hy6 who would be quite put off by having to spend an extra $1500 or so for a 45 deg prism if that's the only way they would ever use the camera. I personally shoot with a tripod and find it "challenging" using a waist level finder shooting off a tripod.
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one of the advantages of a WLF is the much brighter image....of course tracking movement left/right is tricky......but for portrait i find it still the best....
i thought the Hy6 would accept the 6008 finders? there are several available and prices are not that bad (on ebay)....
of course because the back can be....."rotated" on the Hy6, the prism finder will have quite a bit of black surrounding the image, which might be distracting....none of the 645s (hass, mamiya, contax) have to deal with that.....i know this from shooting with the RZ and the prism....although the actual image is bigger? then on my 645afdII, it feels smaller because there is so much black around it...(of course the RZ is "worse" then the Hy6, it is 6x7 instead of 6x6, so even more black) using the flip-up finder works well, but at that point i feel like i am a foot away from the camera......nothing is perfect....
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one of the advantages of a WLF is the much brighter image....of course tracking movement left/right is tricky......but for portrait i find it still the best....
I have the WLF and 45 degree prism for the 6008 and find myself using the WLF at all times except when the camera is too high for me to look own into it. The image with the loop is so large and bright - it's a real pleasure to use.
i thought the Hy6 would accept the 6008 finders? there are several available and prices are not that bad (on ebay)....
I wish that were so. I think the new viewfinder layout means that the old viewfinders are not compatible. I seem to remember hearing this from someone at F&H last year. Don't rely on it yet.
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Right, Graham!
Best regards,
Thierry
I wish that were so. I think the new viewfinder layout means that the old viewfinders are not compatible. I seem to remember hearing this from someone at F&H last year. Don't rely on it yet.
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Right.
For me always was 35 and MF.
In the digital era, the same. Nothing has changed in my body. Still the same parts.
My EOS for fast, light work and MF in tripod, studio, with big, bright, contemplative, gorgeous WLF.
For 35, I'm set and totally happy (5D)
For MF now is either my beloved V or the temptress Hy6.
Thumbs down for the H3D
Congratulations all MF lovers. now we need sensor makers to follow suit and honor the efforts of this joint enterprise.
Eduardo
one of the advantages of a WLF is the much brighter image....of course tracking movement left/right is tricky......but for portrait i find it still the best....
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Folks,
Here you are a quick synopsis of the major Hy6 changes: the new camera is equipped with a new AF-sensor (cross), new battery Li-Ion 7.2 V, USB plug and some other features. You can fit all lenses from the 6000 system, as well extension tubes, interchangeable screens, magazine 4560. The finder system of the 6000 system will not fit as well the "old" magazines. The mirror will be moved by linear motors and no longer by a gear plate. The interface for digital backs was optimized.
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Hehe, in any case the H3D will not take 48x48 sensors.
Edmund
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What a mistake by Hasselblad, configuring the H3D so that it is optimized for a digital sensor that exists, rather than configuring it so that it is optimized for a 6x6 FILM BACK and a digital sensor that doesn't yet exist(and may never exist in commercially practical terms).
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Hehe, in any case the H3D will not take 48x48 sensors.
Edmund
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is that what you are waiting for? it seems like you have been wanting to get into DMF for a WHILE now....
but i really doubt that the 48x48 sensor will be anywhere near the ZD or the canons when it will be announced, so i would start saving up.....
it was easy for F&H to make the Hy6 a 6x6.....they just updated the 6008.....
IF a larger sensor comes out, hasselblad will simply build a new camera for it...making the lenses should not be too hard (they already used to make them)....yes it will be expensive and yes it will be incompatible, but by offering trade-ins they can deal with that....
but either way...the larger sensor (larger then 645) would probably not fit in the Hy6 either, i doubt anyone would make a larger sensor in square format....
a 6x7 sensor...now that sounds interesting.....for RZ, fuji 680 and all 4x5 cameras......
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IF a larger sensor comes out, hasselblad will simply build a new camera for it...making the lenses should not be too hard (they already used to make them)....yes it will be expensive and yes it will be incompatible, but by offering trade-ins they can deal with that....
Yes, but they'll have to invent a new term to describe their new camera since full-frame now means 36x48 for them
It's just that as a journalist I love the contortions the PR people have to jump through
Edmund
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Yes, but they'll have to invent a new term to describe their new camera since full-frame now means 36x48 for them
It's just that as a journalist I love the contortions the PR people have to jump through
Edmund
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no it will just be "really full frame this time.....honest".....
i am just amazed with what people are willing to put up with...in terms of hasselblad abandoning systems...but i guess to some it is worth it....
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Maybe it is just me, but since the anouncemt of the Hy6 in Kina last year, I feel 99% certain that eventually we will have a 6X6 sensor to whine about (really expensive).
I may be wrong, but I have the feeling that even Hasselblad, can't keep up coming with new systems just like that. Imagine the "rollercoaster-like marketing. Poor guys, giv'em a beak!
Eduardo
is that what you are waiting for? it seems like you have been wanting to get into DMF for a WHILE now....
but i really doubt that the 48x48 sensor will be anywhere near the ZD or the canons when it will be announced, so i would start saving up.....
it was easy for F&H to make the Hy6 a 6x6.....they just updated the 6008.....
IF a larger sensor comes out, hasselblad will simply build a new camera for it...making the lenses should not be too hard (they already used to make them)....yes it will be expensive and yes it will be incompatible, but by offering trade-ins they can deal with that....
but either way...the larger sensor (larger then 645) would probably not fit in the Hy6 either, i doubt anyone would make a larger sensor in square format....
a 6x7 sensor...now that sounds interesting.....for RZ, fuji 680 and all 4x5 cameras......
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=122864\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Sorry PSS, I'm not picking on you. I forgot.
You said, the Hy6 is just an updated 6008, are you sure? I thought it was designed from a totally different chassis.
Thierry !!! Please enlight.
Best
Eduardo
is that what you are waiting for? it seems like you have been wanting to get into DMF for a WHILE now....
but i really doubt that the 48x48 sensor will be anywhere near the ZD or the canons when it will be announced, so i would start saving up.....
it was easy for F&H to make the Hy6 a 6x6.....they just updated the 6008.....
IF a larger sensor comes out, hasselblad will simply build a new camera for it...making the lenses should not be too hard (they already used to make them)....yes it will be expensive and yes it will be incompatible, but by offering trade-ins they can deal with that....
but either way...the larger sensor (larger then 645) would probably not fit in the Hy6 either, i doubt anyone would make a larger sensor in square format....
a 6x7 sensor...now that sounds interesting.....for RZ, fuji 680 and all 4x5 cameras......
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=122864\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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it was easy for F&H to make the Hy6 a 6x6.....they just updated the 6008.....
Hmm....the lens mount is the same, yes. And the communication protocol is vaguely based on the 6008's.
New chasis, new finders, new controls, new power source and power management, new back mount, new RGB sensor, New mirror & dampening (and a good one at that), new AF sensor...
So NO, they haven't "just updated the 6008"...
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I would definitively like to "clean" this idea from the table that the Sinar Hy 6 is just an updated 6008. It is by far not that at all. The input and ideas to build this new camera came from Jenoptik's R&D, as wel as from Sinar's R&D.
And again, F&H have been the manufacturer of this Hy6 camera, nothing more.
best regards,
Thierry
it was easy for F&H to make the Hy6 a 6x6.....they just updated the 6008.....
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I would definitively like to "clean" this idea from the table that the Sinar Hy 6 is just an updated 6008. It is by not that at all. The input and ideas to build this new camera came from Jenoptik's R&D, as wel as from Sinar's R&D.
And again, F&H have been the manufacturer of this Hy6 camera, nothing more.
best regards,
Thierry
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sorry, i am not a technician or know anything about that.....what i meant was that they built on the same idea....the body, the grip...of course they took that idea and improved on it in every aspect....at least i hope....the Hy6 is a logical step up from the 6008....i did not mean to insult anyone here......the 6008 is a pretty amazing camera and if my P30 would fit on it, i would still be there......
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What's wrong with an updated 6008? It's a fantastic camera.
The hy6 is manufactured by the same company in partnership with two others.
It's almost as though Rollei/Jenoptik/Sinar skipped several generations of changes to the 6008 and applied it all at once.
Maybe it would be wiser to say that the hy6 is 'influenced' by the 6008 - it would seem to be a sensible starting point. Why start from scratch when there's a fully electronic medium-format camera that's had a proven record for decades to use as a point of departure? After all, it takes the same lenses and it's 6x6...
The result of three grown-up companies in dialogue with each other and sharing their combined skills.
Sounds sensible to me.
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nothing wrong at all and no offense from anybody. Yes, the Sinar Hy6 is obviously influenced somehow by the 6008, when some 6008 features like the positionable handgrip, the lenses and the 6x6 format have made their proves over the years. But beside this, the camera has been completely re-thought, without looking back at the 6008, and much input came from Jenoptik's and Sinar's people.
Best regards,
Thierry
What's wrong with an updated 6008? It's a fantastic camera.
The hy6 is manufactured by the same company in partnership with two others.
It's almost as though Rollei/Jenoptik/Sinar skipped several generations of changes to the 6008 and applied it all at once.
Maybe it would be wiser to say that the hy6 is 'influenced' by the 6008 - it would seem to be a sensible starting point. Why start from scratch when there's a fully electronic medium-format camera that's had a proven record for decades to use as a point of departure? After all, it takes the same lenses and it's 6x6...
The result of three grown-up companies in dialogue with each other and sharing their combined skills.
Sounds sensible to me.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=122930\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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What's wrong with an updated 6008? It's a fantastic camera.
The hy6 is manufactured by the same company in partnership with two others.
It's almost as though Rollei/Jenoptik/Sinar skipped several generations of changes to the 6008 and applied it all at once.
Maybe it would be wiser to say that the hy6 is 'influenced' by the 6008 - it would seem to be a sensible starting point. Why start from scratch when there's a fully electronic medium-format camera that's had a proven record for decades to use as a point of departure? After all, it takes the same lenses and it's 6x6...
The result of three grown-up companies in dialogue with each other and sharing their combined skills.
Sounds sensible to me.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=122930\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Nicely put.
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It is worrying to see that an "official" Sinar representative elects to repeatedly spread misinformation. Apart from the fact that the Rolleiflex Hy6 will be available alongside with the Sinar branded version in several parts of the world (Germany, just to mention one important country), there is a lot to be said about the history of this camera design that is bluntly denied here.
The development of the Hy6 was initiated by Rollei Fototechnic GmbH and was originally planned as a 4.5x6 camera long before Franke & Heidecke GmbH was founded. The motorized Rolleiflex 6000 4.5x6 cassette is a result of that early research. It is the same 4.5x6 cassette that is used on the Hy6 now. Under F&H the R&D work was continued with the same former Rollei engineers. The electronics were developed by Rollei in cooperation with an independent company in Switzerland (no daughter of Sinar or Jenoptik). Rollei searched for a partner from the digital back industry to complement the Hy6 development. Jenoptik joined (with a good sum of development finances), because they saw opportunities to use their daughter Sinar for distribution and for selling more digibacks with the new camera under the brand name Sinar. Later on Leaf joined the party as they were also interested to buy the camera for their own backs. This is the story. There was NO DEVELOPING from Sinar. Maybe just some wishes for features etc.
Best regards, EPd
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this goes along with what i have heard over the last years, when asking rollei people about future models.....i have mentioned this here as well but was told that this wasn't true.....
thanks....whoever you are...
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I won't reply on this but just refer to our Sinar m and suggest to have a close look on the features and menus of the 2 cameras. Further, I have never denied that the basics came from the 6008!
EPd: I don't think that it is worth to start a war here. The Hy6 was an order from Jenoptik to F&H.
Thierry
It is worrying to see that an "official" Sinar representative elects to repeatedly spread misinformation. Apart from the fact that the Rolleiflex Hy6 will be available alongside with the Sinar branded version in several parts of the world (Germany, just to mention one important country), there is a lot to be said about the history of this camera design that is bluntly denied here.
The development of the Hy6 was initiated by Rollei Fototechnic GmbH and was originally planned as a 4.5x6 camera long before Franke & Heidecke GmbH was founded. The motorized Rolleiflex 6000 4.5x6 cassette is a result of that early research. It is the same 4.5x6 cassette that is used on the Hy6 now. Under F&H the R&D work was continued with the same former Rollei engineers. The electronics were developed by Rollei in cooperation with an independent company in Switzerland (no daughter of Sinar or Jenoptik). Rollei searched for a partner from the digital back industry to complement the Hy6 development. Jenoptik joined (with a good sum of development finances), because they saw opportunities to use their daughter Sinar for distribution and for selling more digibacks with the new camera under the brand name Sinar. Later on Leaf joined the party as they were also interested to buy the camera for their own backs. This is the story. There was NO DEVELOPING from Sinar. Maybe just some wishes for features etc.
Best regards, EPd
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I won't reply on this but just refer to our Sinar m and suggest to have a close look on the features and menus of the 2 cameras. Further, I have never denied that the basics came from the 6008!
EPd: I don't think that it is worth to start a war here. The Hy6 was an order from Jenoptik to F&H.
Thierry
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As former 6008 professional user, after having the chance to hold the Hy6, I must say the new camera is very different from the 6XXX series. It is a lot lighter and smaller, the analog switch/dial/menu mostly stay on the lefthand side of the camera and can be easily access even wearing a glove (if out in the field in winter for example or in a lab) or in total darkness, this is something worth mentioning a camera designed to have the simplest layout for a new user to get start instantly. The aperture and speed control (wheel) on the grip that is also easily accessible. I would say I prefer the rotabale grip of Hy6 over the 6XXX since it is more ergonomic, and also because the camera is lighter (even with digital back attached, e75LV). I made a quick comparison against Contax 645+P45 and H3D39, I would put Hy6 and Contax 645 P45 few steps above H3D39. On the other hand, the Hy6 includes a quick access from its analog switch to let use to get into a depth of custom/optional functions is a more friendlier approach than the complicate menu from H3D.
As camera users as we all are, I guessed we need to focus on what a camera has became and look forward to spend some time to get use to the tool on hand and make good pictures. In this regard, I think Hy6 is a cleverly developed camera that almost anyone with basic understanding on today's camera can pick up and start shoot without spend much time on instructions.
I would say Hy6 is a camera came in time when there is a lot confusion on medium format and a very competitive platform for existing users and new users to consider. With the rich collection of existing Rollei/Zeiss/Schneider lenses already available or the AFD verisons to be converted, it might be the strongest digital platform today.
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The Hy6 is no more similar to a Sinar M than it is to a Hasselblad H or a Mamiya 645AF. Hasselblad and Mamiya did not do R&D for the Hy6 project either. The concept of the Hy6 has everything to do with the Rolleiflex 6000 series. The main bulk of that system was formed by the transport motor and the battery. By removing the motor and moving the battery from the body into the grip the basic shape of the Hy6 was formed. Problems to be solved were how to drive the mirror now that no drive in the body was available to do that and the transport of the film. A number of different Rollei patents regarding direct mirror drive mechanisms, dating from the late nineties/early 2000's, shows a trail of this development. And as said before: the self-driven 4.5x6 Rollei back was another development directly initiated by the future need for a camera without a built in motor. It's a design from the early/mid-nineties and also made motorized transport on the Rollei X-Act TS-camera possible.
Due to the lack of funds Rollei was not able to finish the 645 camera development on their own. When Jenoptik joined as a business partner the camera was code-named Rolleiflex JMF645AF. Until halfway 2006 this was the name of the camera, despite the fact that it could house a still non-existent 6x6 cassette as well. (The self driven 6x6 film cassette is under development now.)
Thierry, you say you don't want a war over this. Neither do I. But it would have been wise if you had not inflicted a lot of pain to the F&H engineers who made this entire camera possible by investing in it with their whole heart and soul for years. You denied their crucial role by saying: "F&H have been the manufacturer of this Hy6 camera, nothing more", as this is simply not true. I am posting here because these people have a right to be credited for what they did and not see their effort stolen by some salesman who puts them in a corner.
Regards,
EPd
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Well, I have no knowledge of the history behind the Hy6 but trying it, whoever did it and made it to the market deserve high credit. It cleverly put a camera that is both simple and sophisticated. And from what I can see, offer some great possibilities for future development of exciting functions.
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EPd,
Why not post under your real name since you seem to have so much knowledge about it?
"The Hy6 is no more similar to a Sinar m ....": we know that the basic concept comes from the 6008, but I was not speaking about this. It happens that I have some knowledge too.
Fact is that know-how from the Sinar m is behind the Hy6 (i.e. focus-trap and other features, without elaborating). Nobody wants to offend "your" engineers and they have done a great job with their 6000 series. But that you write that the whole concept of the Hy6 has everything to do with the Rolleiflex 6000 series will certainly offend some other engineers.
BTW: I am a photographer, not a salesman.
Best regards,
Thierry
The Hy6 is no more similar to a Sinar M than it is to a Hasselblad H or a Mamiya 645AF. Hasselblad and Mamiya did not do R&D for the Hy6 project either. The concept of the Hy6 has everything to do with the Rolleiflex 6000 series.
Regards,
EPd
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EPd,
Too easy, that way, to post anonymous. It has nothing to do with getting credit for ones own name, but rather with the possibility to be able to speak at the same "eye level", if you see what I mean.
No need also to remind my introducing post: I have it well in memory and don't feel having betrayed it in any way. As you, I have no doubt about my own words. Be assured that I have made sure that my information was correct, before posting it.
We agree on one point: live and let live it!
Best regards,
Thierry
Thierry,
I have no doubt that my words will hold true over time, but I'm not posting here to get any credit to my own name.
Maybe now and then you should have a look at your own initial statements when you introduced yourself to this forum in December 2006:
http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/lofive...php/t13504.html (http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t13504.html)
Oh, and please elaborate us if you have anything to say that might be of interest to us photographers. Only just make sure the information is correct. It is to nobody's interest to be misinformed, except for those who'd want the Hy6 would never see the light of day. So please live and let live.
Regards,
EPd
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(The self driven 6x6 film cassette is under development now.)
Regards,
EPd
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Is the 6x6 a definite future film back? Is it being discussed on the drawing board only or have feasable prototypes been built already? I still like to shoot film often but like many people on this thread have been watching the development of this camera very closely and will not sell some of my existing kit and buy this camera unless it has a 6x6 cassette. I like and shoot square a lot. It would seem a bit daft to NOT develop this cassette as the camera's shape is essentially square and was designed with square in mind. Or was the rotatable 6x4.5 back a higher priority design decision that influenced the square shape of this camera?
I also hope the film cassette is not as pricey as hasselblad's...
Thierry, I understand if you can't make any more comments about this then you have already.
Thanks
Nik.
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I seem to remember seeing a film cassette at Photokina. I assume it was 6x6.
Edmund
Is the 6x6 a definite future film back? Is it being discussed on the drawing board only or have feasable prototypes been built already? I still like to shoot film often but like many people on this thread have been watching the development of this camera very closely and will not sell some of my existing kit and buy this camera unless it has a 6x6 cassette. I like and shoot square a lot. It would seem a bit daft to NOT develop this cassette as the camera's shape is essentially square and was designed with square in mind. Or was the rotatable 6x4.5 back a higher priority design decision that influenced the square shape of this camera?
I also hope the film cassette is not as pricey as hasselblad's...
Thierry, I understand if you can't make any more comments about this then you have already.
Thanks
Nik.
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As a new owner of a Sinar M with the AF module and as a user of Rollei 6008 System , all I can say that Sinar AF and exposure control works MUCH better. If the Sinar M electronics was incorporated in the stripped 6008 body I cannot see how this Sinar Hy6 fails. It will make a modern camera with the best AF in Medium Format.
Yevgeny
I won't reply on this but just refer to our Sinar m and suggest to have a close look on the features and menus of the 2 cameras. Further, I have never denied that the basics came from the 6008!
E
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And here you see the Hy6 with a Sinarback and the 6x4.5 film back and adapter frame detached:
[attachment=2677:attachment]
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that 4560? back for the 6008 (and now the Hy6) is a brilliant solution.....no other film back comes even close to simple, elegant, small, perfect filmhandling.....also the included dark-slide....just way above what everybody else is doing...and was doing 10 years ago when the dark slide came out (or even longer?)
anyway....i am glad to see that the Hy6 is hitting the market...
to me it is obvious that it is a logical improvement to the 6008...trimmed of its motor on the bottom...added functionality on the handle, but keeping all controls where they just fall into your hands....same as with the 6008....
i am very excited about the new AF and the new dampened mirror....i wonder is there will finally be a worthwhile MF autofocus and if they dampened the slap from the 6008, handheld to about 1/15 should be absolutely possible.....add to that the fastest MF lenses with the best glass available......this IS the system to beat......
but i guess so was the 6008 when it came out...
i will say it again.....Hy6 phase support badly needed....
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who cares how fantastic the camera looks.....how is the focussing?? and what is it going to cost? In the end the back records the image and photoshop does the rest..if you suck as a photographer a better camera/back etc is not going to help you.
So:
1. how is the focusing (compared to hassy and afdII)
2. price (camera/lensen access)
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who cares how fantastic the camera looks.....how is the focussing?? and what is it going to cost? In the end the back records the image and photoshop does the rest..if you suck as a photographer a better camera/back etc is not going to help you.
So:
1. how is the focusing (compared to hassy and afdII)
2. price (camera/lensen access)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=124927\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
If the camera is about image making I think it does matter to some, the design of a camera is always a value to itself, it is a subjective issue but certain I will wish my camera looks good and can produce top quality.
From my experience with Hy6, the AF is without doubt as responsive as H3D and a tab better than Contax 645 for speed, although not as quiet. For me, Contax 645 is acceptable, so I am comfortable to comment Hy6 performance on AF is more than acceptable. And I think it is fair to say the Hy6 is at least as fast as H3D if not faster. I don't know about AFDII but from my earlier experience on the earlier model, I think Hy6 is faster. As on accuracy matter, I don't have enough experience on Hy6 to comment.
As for cost, it depends on how much a photographer can charge for his work to justify the cost and how dependable and durable the camera system and its warranty and so on, the photographer has to make justification by themselves. I do not know the suggested price for Hy6 system, but I guess if the price is around what other systems are charging, I think it is fair.
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Here some images of the Sinar Hy6 with the viewfinder.
Thierry
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Thank you Thierry,
Something with antenna + cable is attached to the hotshoe, what is it?
Billy
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hi Billy!
The Hy6 camera has been tested with the eMotion in un-tethered, as well as tethered modes: what you see is the FW cable to download the files.
Thierry
Thank you Thierry,
Something with antenna + cable is attached to the hotshoe, what is it?
Billy
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=125364\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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It's not a plain firewire cable I see. It looks to be some PocketWizard-type transmitter, or some theft prevention device that's attached to the side hotshoe.
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Dear Billy,
What you see is not a transmitter, but a "Ferrite Bead". It helps to suppress high frequency noise in electronic circuits.
We are providing such FW cables, beside the normal ones.
See also the Wikipedia explanation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrite_bead (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrite_bead)
and the other accessory on the hotshoe is a radio transmitter, for the flash powerpacks.
Best regards,
Thierry
It's not a plain firewire cable I see. It looks to be some PocketWizard-type transmitter, or some theft prevention device that's attached to the side hotshoe.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=125369\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Dear Billy,
What you see is not a transmitter, but a "Ferrite Bead". It helps to suppress high frequency noise in electronic circuits.
We are providing such FW cables, beside the normal ones.
See also the Wikipedia explanation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrite_bead (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrite_bead)
and the other accessory on the hotshoe is a radio transmitter, for the flash powerpacks.
Best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=125383\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Is the Hy6 very sensitive to frequency noise? Does it really need the bead? Or is it there just in case.
Another question. What kind of AF does the Hy6 have? Single center AF or multipoint? (My guess would be single center point otherwise it would have been shouted from the rooftops).
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Dear Dustback,
this "Ferrite Bead" has nothing to do with the Hy6. It is an additional protection of the data running through the FW cable, "just" in case frequency noise is created. Read the detailled explanation from Wikipedia.
AF in the Sinar Hy6: it is an Autofocus cross sensor (multi-zone), situated in the center. FYI: there is an integrated auxiliary red-light beam on the upper side of the camera, for AF metering in low-light conditions.
Thierry
Is the Hy6 very sensitive to frequency noise? Does it really need the bead? Or is it there just in case.
Another question. What kind of AF does the Hy6 have? Single center AF or multipoint?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=125427\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Dear Dustback,
this "Ferrite Bead" has nothing to do with the Hy6. It is an additional protection of the data running through the FW cable, "just" in case frequency noise is created. Read the detailled explanation from Wikipedia.
AF in the Sinar Hy6: it is an Autofocus cross sensor (multi-zone), situated in the center. FYI: there is an integrated auxiliary red-light beam on the upper side of the camera, for AF metering in low-light conditions.
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=125434\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Ah, I see. Ok. Makes sense.
Cross sensor (multi-zone), I guess no selectable multi zone AF so it has multiple zones to determine focus? Redlight for low light is nice.
No selectable zones outside of the center?
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AF in the Sinar Hy6: it is an Autofocus cross sensor (multi-zone), situated in the center. FYI: there is an integrated auxiliary red-light beam on the upper side of the camera, for AF metering in low-light conditions.
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=0\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
sounds like what my 645afdII has....which is better then one sensor, but still not even close to DSLR.....
why is it so hard to put in sensors everywhere? i mean we are talking about a camera body for about 3000$.....i remember a canon SLR i had years ago with eye controlled AF......don't know whatever happened to that concept, but it worked.....and the whole body was 400$.....
if the Hy6 had a canon/nikon like AF system with mulitple OFF CENTER sensors....even an extra 1000$ would not matter....
i am not an engineer, but is it really THAT hard?
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Dear Dustback,
Cross sensor (multi-zone), I guess no selectable multi zone AF so it has multiple zones to determine focus? ---> YES, RIGHT
No selectable zones outside of the center? ---> YES, RIGHT
Thierry
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Dear Dustback,
Cross sensor (multi-zone), I guess no selectable multi zone AF so it has multiple zones to determine focus? ---> YES, RIGHT
No selectable zones outside of the center? ---> YES, RIGHT
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=125439\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Hi Thierry,
Sorry for the mistake in the previous post. I have a dumb question that may or may not be worth responding to: Is there a reason that 'Predictive Autofocus' (as in AI Servo) was not considered in the formation of the AF system for the Hy6? Other than I'm the only MFD shooter who would actually have find any value in it. Thanks!
David
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Am I the only one here who believes that future digital backs will be able to take over the focus action on the Hy6 by means of LiveView ?
Edmund
Hi Thierry,
Sorry for the mistake in the previous post. I have a dumb question that may or may not be worth responding to: Is there a reason that 'Predictive Autofocus' (as in AI Servo) was not considered in the formation of the AF system for the Hy6? Other than I'm the only MFD shooter who would actually have find any value in it. Thanks!
David
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=131491\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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You probably are. There isn't much chance of focusing when the mirror is down for visual control of the image's focus. And apart from that, focus sensors are not the same as an image taking CCD.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=131664\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
For once I am in agreement with Edmund.
A camera could be made with a semi transparent mirror
LIght then falls onto the chip
software analises the image(s) and works out the sharp point usiong contrast and iteration between subsequent images
Data is then fed back to the lens and the AF controlled
at this point your focus zone could be selected anywhere across the chip with a trackpad style device
$400 compacts have auto face recogition NOW surely using a simlar process
I think the Hy6 and all current generation MF cameras were designed with a totaly 'analogue' head on
This is a real shame basically you should be able to properly control your camera using setups you make on the laptop
As I am investigating using my H1 underwater I realise exactly how archaic the controls of cameras like this are
I know the approximate distance of my subject and want to program the cameras AF to only hunt in that range for example - no way on anything MF
S
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Dear Sam,
the Sinar Hy6 can be remote controled from the computer, included the focus (like with the Sinar m), exactly the way you describe it below. Nothing to be compared with the H series.
Best regards,
Thierry
I think the Hy6 and all current generation MF cameras were designed with a totaly 'analogue' head on
This is a real shame basically you should be able to properly control your camera using setups you make on the laptop
As I am investigating using my H1 underwater I realise exactly how archaic the controls of cameras like this are
I know the approximate distance of my subject and want to program the cameras AF to only hunt in that range for example - no way on anything MF
S
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=131753\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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This is my dream camera: an Apla or something to put the best digital lenses on, an AF system, moving the back (the sensor) according to the data collected by the back (like the Contax AX did several yars ago. Contax AX body autofocuses by changing the lens-to-film distance. ). Then we can skip the Mirror, avoid mirror slap, expensive helicoid barrels and we can enjoy the best lenses ever. A Sinar-M shutter or in-lens shutters will be your option.
Yevgeny
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For once I am in agreement with Edmund.
A camera could be made with a semi transparent mirror ...
As I imagine you know, pellicle mirrors date back at least to 1965.
http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/compa...sources/pellix/ (http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/companies/canon/fdresources/pellix/)
They appear to have fallen out of favor, obvious benefits notwithstanding..
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Dear Sam,
the Sinar Hy6 can be remote controled from the computer, included the focus (like with the Sinar m), exactly the way you describe it below. Nothing to be compared with the H series.
Best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=131779\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I dont mean shooting tethered. (although that is interesting to know - sorry to mis understand/represent your product)
Iwant to build and load my own 'profiles'
e.g Profile One
auto ISO, but never go beyond 400, A focus between 2 and 3meters and meter using 250 speed priority using everything but the center to meter (!)
My experience in moving situations is that most automation end up not being used becuase it is not definable enough
Still I dont think there is integration between image anaysis from Live View and camera control - this is the fundamental step not currently present ??
IMO Live View data should be able to drive exposure focus and aperture
----
YNP yes it is indeed the gream (!)
S
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I am not sure if Thierry has covered this before or not, but another unique feature of the Sinar Hy6 is the "Focus Trap" feature. You set the focus distance and then when something comes into focus at that range, the camera fires. Great feature for fashion, kids, sports etc...
Sincerely,
Greg King
Sinar Bron Imaging
USA
"My experience in moving situations is that most automation end up not being used becuase it is not definable enough"
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Actually Greg, no one has ever mentioned the "Focus Trap" feature of the Hy6. If the focus trap feature is true, the marketing guys for the Hy6 really suck. Focus Trap would be a second cousin to Predictive IA Servo Focus. Not unlike the the focus trap feature first seen on the original Minolta 9000 from centuries ago. It could be reason enough me to buy a Hy6. Thanks for the input.
David
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The Rollei 6008AF has it btw too.
I've never used it though.
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Yeah, the 6008Af does indeed have that feature. When I had one, I never used this feature, however. It didn't seem all that useful.
The Rollei 6008AF has it btw too.
I've never used it though.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=131960\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Hi William and Carl, It doesn't surprize me that no one has ever used it Focus Trap. It wouldn't surprize me if this feature doesn't even work. The technology is archaic. But, it is more than what I have on the H1. If when I try Focus Trap on a production unit and it can actually provide in focus capture I understand I will be the only person to ever use it.
David
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Hi William and Carl, It doesn't surprize me that no one has ever used it Focus Trap. It wouldn't surprize me if this feature doesn't even work. The technology is archaic. But, it is more than what I have on the H1. If when I try Focus Trap on a production unit and it can actually provide in focus capture I understand I will be the only person to ever use it.
David
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=131971\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
the shutter would have to fast like the canon to be usefull- or the subject would be out of focus by the time the mirror is up. i doubt any med format camera would be fast enough.
paul
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David,
I did mention the "Focus Trap" feature, a long time ago however!
Another UNIQUE feature I did mention was the "Focus Braketing". Here what this feature does:
When "Focus Bracketing" is selected, the Sinar Hy6 makes a series of images (for the time being 5) in dependence of the current aperture.
The central image (nr. 3/5) is made exactly on focus target. Whereas image nr. 2/5 is half the depth of filed closer and image nr.1/5 is one depth of filed closer than the target focus. Image nr. 4/5 is half the depth of field farther away than target and image nr. 5/5 is one depth of field farther away than target.
Use:
Such a function can be of use when somebody is e.g. using the images for computer rendering.
Hope this helps,
Thierry
Actually Greg, no one has ever mentioned the "Focus Trap" feature of the Hy6. If the focus trap feature is true, the marketing guys for the Hy6 really suck. Focus Trap would be a second cousin to Predictive IA Servo Focus. Not unlike the the focus trap feature first seen on the original Minolta 9000 from centuries ago. It could be reason enough me to buy a Hy6. Thanks for the input.
David
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=131944\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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David,
this feature works well: it is also a feature of the Sinar m, working the same way, and I did use it to be able to say that it works well.
Best regards,
Thierry
Hi William and Carl, It doesn't surprize me that no one has ever used it Focus Trap. It wouldn't surprize me if this feature doesn't even work. The technology is archaic. But, it is more than what I have on the H1. If when I try Focus Trap on a production unit and it can actually provide in focus capture I understand I will be the only person to ever use it.
David
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=131971\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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thierry...please stop teasing us....get the damn thing out and make a phase adapter....thanks paul:)
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oh, am nottrying teasing anybody, just trying to get the right information out . As for release: just a few weeks patience and you shall see it. Demo units ship by mid of September and production units by mid of October.
Thierry
thierry...please stop teasing us....get the damn thing out and make a phase adapter....thanks paul:)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=132012\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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oh, am nottrying teasing anybody, just trying to get the right information out . As for release: just a few weeks patience and you shall see it. Demo units ship by mid of September and production units by mid of October.
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=132014\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
thierry...please stop teasing us....get the damn thing out and make a [span style=\'font-size:14pt;line-height:100%\']phase adapter[/span]....thanks Caracalla
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I repeat myself: this is certainly not an issue concerning Sinar. Please ask this question to Phase One. It has always been the manufacturer of a digital back to be concerned and decide about making an adapter for a certain camera platform, always.
Thanks and best regards,
Thierry
thierry...please stop teasing us....get the damn thing out and make a [span style=\'font-size:14pt;line-height:100%\']phase adapter[/span]....thanks Caracalla
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=132016\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Couple of things: Is this setup going to cause red-eye with the Hy6. The Metz 54 (which I use) looks pretty close to the lens. http://www.pbase.com/omoses/eq_rollei (http://www.pbase.com/omoses/eq_rollei) Also, I'd like to apoligize for my comment that Hy6 marketing people suck as Trap-Focus was mentioned very early on in this thread. Helps to read the entire thread, sorry.
David
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Oops, Heres the better Link: http://www.pbase.com/omoses/image/49980948 (http://www.pbase.com/omoses/image/49980948)
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IMO Live View data should be able to drive exposure focus and aperture
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=131806\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Interesting to see that the new nikon does this.
Surely the future for wide angle MF photography
S
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Had a very brief play with a pre production Leaf AFi this evening (and a 1Ds MkIII, it was a good night!). Very nicely put together. The rotating grip is fantastic! The AF is usefully fast. Both the stop down & mirror up actions were very quick, not to mention very easy to activate as the buttons are right there. The only awkward thing was how the battery on the 75S back protruded about 10mm below the base of the body, meaning the camera can't sit flat.
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Goes to show what I don't know. I was thinking Leaf was making a new back that got its power from the cameras battery grip. Heck, just change the mounting plate on the 75s. That was easy..
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Goes to show what I don't know. I was thinking Leaf was making a new back that got its power from the cameras battery grip. Heck, just change the mounting plate on the 75s. That was easy..
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=135028\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Speaking of mounting plates, I forgot. A rotating plate (no need to remove the back to change from vert to horz) is in the works at the moment.
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Also solves the problem of the camera sitting on the battery - rotate the back. Life's good again.