Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: cesarrojo on April 06, 2007, 09:09:56 am
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Hello all,
This is my very first posting (but hope not last) I'm about to purchase one of this two digital backs, H3D22 or the p25 along with an H2 and before doing a demo shoting with both of them (I have one next week with phase one and 80% also with hasselblad distributor also) what are you recommendations?
My main type of shooting is motorcycles for mags and brands, also some fashion but for not very important magazines, but I'm starting in photography so will like to invest on a nice camera.
Have in mind that easy of upgrade to new back is important (H3D22 to 39 or to a fture model... same for phase one), also will be working 90% on location.
Also for my own pleasure i will be doing street portraits so how's about ISO i know H3d has 400 and p25+ has 800, but how compare in 400?
Is there visible difference in image quality? Or any other aspects that I have to think about? Have both same dynamic range(this is very important to me as shooting outdoors I cannot control light as much as in the studio)?
Actually I use a D2x, should the difference in quality be huge? Also from a 1Ds?
Thanks so much
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Hello cesarrojo,
I would go for the H3D 22 MP solution and if possible for the H3D 31 Mp. Hassies integrated system works so wonderfull between lenses, body and back. The digital APO correction was for me almost THE reason to go for the H3d platform. Many people do not like the hassie software but once you get used to it it becomes a second nature. But rumours are that Hasselblad soon will be coming with a complete new version of Flexcolor, wich would have the possibilities of PS raw converter combined with flexcolors apo correction and colour engine. It cant get any better......
Go for it and enjoy your images.
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Hello cesarrojo,
I would go for the H3D 22 MP solution and if possible for the H3D 31 Mp. Hassies integrated system works so wonderfull between lenses, body and back. The digital APO correction was for me almost THE reason to go for the H3d platform. Many people do not like the hassie software but once you get used to it it becomes a second nature. But rumours are that Hasselblad soon will be coming with a complete new version of Flexcolor, wich would have the possibilities of PS raw converter combined with flexcolors apo correction and colour engine. It cant get any better......
Go for it and enjoy your images.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111011\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
i am also quite very pleased with my h3d22 which i received last nov together with 3 lenses.
very good handling indeed and no major problems wether with the hardware as with the software.
2 weeks ago my local hassyrepresented for south germany promised me this new software should come out in may- actually i am happy with flex- but the new one could be more handy as it should come with a better browser .
anyway the back is great- 400 iso is usable- but i cant compare it to the p25.
dont like the cropping with the p30 or h3d31
cheers
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For some type of photography i really like the little crop factor of the H 31D ...but most of all the perfectly clean 400 iso and still good 800 iso made me go for the 31. I am now in the market to find a good 100mm 2,2 HC lens ( i really miss my 110 F2,0 rollei planar and hope to replace that with the 100HC)
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Thank you so much for all the information. I was expecting everyone pointing me to the H2+P25 but the hassy was more what had in mind. I'm looking forward now to test it next week!
I will keep you informed!
Hello cesarrojo,
I would go for the H3D 22 MP solution and if possible for the H3D 31 Mp. Hassies integrated system works so wonderfull between lenses, body and back. The digital APO correction was for me almost THE reason to go for the H3d platform. Many people do not like the hassie software but once you get used to it it becomes a second nature. But rumours are that Hasselblad soon will be coming with a complete new version of Flexcolor, wich would have the possibilities of PS raw converter combined with flexcolors apo correction and colour engine. It cant get any better......
Go for it and enjoy your images.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111011\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Thank you so much for all the information. I was expecting everyone pointing me to the H2+P25 but the hassy was more what had in mind. I'm looking forward now to test it next week!
I will keep you informed!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111044\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Dont forget to consider the image bank: it gives you an almost unlimited amount of space to shoot hundreds of images. Also try the digital APO correction and play a bit with flexcolor. Flexcolor is a no nonsense software, initially created for the professional scanner operator and later also adapted for the ixpress. The interface is not as colorfull as the phase one but it does the job extremely well. ( the next upgrade will bee colorfull and super functional) I think it was this way because it originated from a professional application software, used by die hards in opposite tho the phase one solution wich aimed to pursuade digital slr and not digital camera users to go for their system.( in wich they succeeded very wel). I am using some different ixpress backs on contax/h1-2-3/fuji 680 and rollei now and i am very pleased with the results( as are my clients )
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Thanks for all the info, regarding the H3d is the longest exp 30secs? Or can go 1h as the P25+? Is DR the same in both systems? Thanks!
Dont forget to consider the image bank: it gives you an almost unlimited amount of space to shoot hundreds of images. Also try the digital APO correction and play a bit with flexcolor. Flexcolor is a no nonsense software, initially created for the professional scanner operator and later also adapted for the ixpress. The interface is not as colorfull as the phase one but it does the job extremely well. ( the next upgrade will bee colorfull and super functional) I think it was this way because it originated from a professional application software, used by die hards in opposite tho the phase one solution wich aimed to pursuade digital slr and not digital camera users to go for their system.( in wich they succeeded very wel). I am using some different ixpress backs on contax/h1-2-3/fuji 680 and rollei now and i am very pleased with the results( as are my clients )
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111051\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Hi there,
Just one basic question. Are you sure that your business plan is solid enough to invest into such high end gear from the very beginning?
Regards,
Bernard
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sure!
Hi there,
Just one basic question. Are you sure that your business plan is solid enough to invest into such high end gear from the very beginning?
Regards,
Bernard
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111084\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Hello all,
This is my very first posting (but hope not last) I'm about to purchase one of this two digital backs, H3D22 or the p25 along with an H2 and before doing a demo shoting with both of them (I have one next week with phase one and 80% also with hasselblad distributor also) what are you recommendations?
My main type of shooting is motorcycles for mags and brands, also some fashion but for not very important magazines, but I'm starting in photography so will like to invest on a nice camera.
Have in mind that easy of upgrade to new back is important (H3D22 to 39 or to a fture model... same for phase one), also will be working 90% on location.
Also for my own pleasure i will be doing street portraits so how's about ISO i know H3d has 400 and p25+ has 800, but how compare in 400?
Is there visible difference in image quality? Or any other aspects that I have to think about? Have both same dynamic range(this is very important to me as shooting outdoors I cannot control light as much as in the studio)?
Actually I use a D2x, should the difference in quality be huge? Also from a 1Ds?
Thanks so much
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=110966\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
i would strongly recommend looking at the Phase 30/30+ or even the H3D31 (if you want to go the hasselblad route)....more resolution, cleaner iso up to 1600 (p30+), faster shooting and cheaper....the only advantage of the larger sensors is the ability to handle T/S, which you can't use with the H anyway.....compare the finders and you will see that the difference in sensor size is mostly on paper....and with the H3D31 the finder makes up on it anyway with magnification....
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i would strongly recommend looking at the Phase 30/30+ or even the H3D31 (if you want to go the hasselblad route)....more resolution, cleaner iso up to 1600 (p30+), faster shooting and cheaper....the only advantage of the larger sensors is the ability to handle T/S, which you can't use with the H anyway.....compare the finders and you will see that the difference in sensor size is mostly on paper....and with the H3D31 the finder makes up on it anyway with magnification....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111181\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
definitly test them out . look at the workflow and direction of companies. also two resellers I know told me that the new screens are a huge improvment. that is one thing that has been lacking on the hassy.
have a happy holiday.
dg
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definitly test them out . look at the workflow and direction of companies. also two resellers I know told me that the new screens are a huge improvment. that is one thing that has been lacking on the hassy.
have a happy holiday.
dg
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111216\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
yes..definitely check out the workflow.....worlds between phase c1 and hasselblad's software.....also have you ever worked with a H1/2? have you ever walked around with one? i am asking because you mentioned "street shooting"...maybe you should consider mamiya or contax as well....
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Before you buy any system test out all those that you are considering. Be sure before you buy.
That said, do you dare buy a system that, should you decide to change, requires you to change everything. The Hasselblad H3 says you must. Can you afford this?
i.e. what to do if a better chip comes along? You know one will.
So, decide carefully, very carefully, your long term requirements before you buy. In my humble opinion (well maybe not so humble) open systems are the only way, unless your requirements are, and will continue to be, very confined. Caution is the watchword, IMO.
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The nice thing about Hassies H3 is that it is the futere line of hasselblad and fully upgradable with newer backs. Also you can benefit from all firmware upgrades and the unique integration of body and back. If you should go for the H3d31 you will be safe for years to come.
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The nice thing about Hassies H3 is that it is the futere line of hasselblad and fully upgradable with newer backs. Also you can benefit from all firmware upgrades and the unique integration of body and back. If you should go for the H3d31 you will be safe for years to come.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111278\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
as long as you want to stay with hasselblad bodies, backs, lenses and software.....are you sure hasselblad is and will be the best solution for ALL these?
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as long as you want to stay with hasselblad bodies, backs, lenses and software.....are you sure hasselblad is and will be the best solution for ALL these?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111338\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hasselblad is at the moment the most sophisticated system there is. Rollei is at the moment only talking in riddles about the HY6 ( and already people are dreaming of it and even pretending they will buy the camera( one that until now even doesn't exist in real life)).
mamiya isn't a real competition because of the limitations of their lens quality and an uncertain future.
Plus, you can always upgrade your back to a CF product wich fits all camera on the market.
But why would you go for an other cameraplatform since H3 is so nice and more beautifull lenses are coming soon....?
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What I most like about the Hassy system is the upgradeability (don't know if this word even exists(I'm spanish)). Because talking with a rep of phase one some time ago while I was firstly thinking of the change to MF there is no upgrade policity, you just need to sell the back and get a new one... an this represents a lot of money. Now in spain is an offer h2d to h3d for 1000€, so it's way cheaper than selling a p25 to get the plus version.... So if there is no huge difference in quality I think i will go for the h3d22 or 31... have to think and test both....
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What I most like about the Hassy system is the upgradeability (don't know if this word even exists(I'm spanish)). Because talking with a rep of phase one some time ago while I was firstly thinking of the change to MF there is no upgrade policity, you just need to sell the back and get a new one... an this represents a lot of money. Now in spain is an offer h2d to h3d for 1000€, so it's way cheaper than selling a p25 to get the plus version.... So if there is no huge difference in quality I think i will go for the h3d22 or 31... have to think and test both....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111374\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I think you are comparing apples to oranges. When you upgrade the p series to a plus, you get a whole new camera, not just an upgrade to firmware and a message on the display that tells you it is not a 'real'h3d, but an upgrade. Also with the plus upgrade your warranty starts back at day one, you get a brand new display, live preview and many other enhancements.
I believe that this program is worldwide for Phase.
Also with the plus upgrade you can use your current system until your new upgrade arrives. I think that with the h2d to h3d upgrade you must send back your whole system for a minimum of a 2 weeks I heard. So what do you do when your system is out for the upgrade, rent one?
dg
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I think you are comparing apples to oranges. When you upgrade the p series to a plus, you get a whole new camera, not just an upgrade to firmware and a message on the display that tells you it is not a 'real'h3d, but an upgrade. Also with the plus upgrade your warranty starts back at day one, you get a brand new display, live preview and many other enhancements.
I believe that this program is worldwide for Phase.
Also with the plus upgrade you can use your current system until your new upgrade arrives. I think that with the h2d to h3d upgrade you must send back your whole system for a minimum of a 2 weeks I heard. So what do you do when your system is out for the upgrade, rent one?
dg
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111384\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Just take a look through the viewfinder of a H3d and you will understand why it is the camera of today and tomorrow.
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Thanks for the info!!! didn't know that i spoke with phase one so i know how they work, but i'm waiting for next week to have a chat with hasselblad and talk about what you are telling me. Because didn't know that the upgrade from H2 to H3 is only a firmware... I need to get all the info next week
I think you are comparing apples to oranges. When you upgrade the p series to a plus, you get a whole new camera, not just an upgrade to firmware and a message on the display that tells you it is not a 'real'h3d, but an upgrade. Also with the plus upgrade your warranty starts back at day one, you get a brand new display, live preview and many other enhancements.
I believe that this program is worldwide for Phase.
Also with the plus upgrade you can use your current system until your new upgrade arrives. I think that with the h2d to h3d upgrade you must send back your whole system for a minimum of a 2 weeks I heard. So what do you do when your system is out for the upgrade, rent one?
dg
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111384\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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When you upgrade the p series to a plus, you get a whole new camera,
Interesting. I did not know that.
Which shutter,viewfinder,and optic comes with a + series back :>)
Mark
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When you upgrade the p series to a plus, you get a whole new camera, not just an upgrade to firmware and a message on the display that tells you it is not a 'real'h3d, but an upgrade. [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111384\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
When you upgrade from a Pxx to a Pxx+, you get a new back, not a new camera.
Regards,
Bernard
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The upgrade from H2 to H3 is not a firmware upgrade but a complete different camerabody with a complete different viewfinder, both especially dedicated to their Hd backs only. Also it is the only body to accept the new 28mm and the upcoming tilt and shift lenses ( they will not work on the H1/H2 platform)
The upgrade from a H1 to H2 was one part firmware on and the other hand new power supply for the digital backs, directly powered by the camera battery.
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The upgrade from H2 to H3 is not a firmware upgrade but a complete different camerabody with a complete different viewfinder, both especially dedicated to their Hd backs only. Also it is the only body to accept the new 28mm and the upcoming tilt and shift lenses ( they will not work on the H1/H2 platform)
The upgrade from a H1 to H2 was one part firmware on and the other hand new power supply for the digital backs, directly powered by the camera battery.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111443\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Not exactly, its somewhere in the middle. They give you a brand new back, but if your old back is in a H mount, and you therefore naturally have a H-series body, you have to send this in as well where they change some parts inside and send it back as a H3 body (upgraded H1/H2.)
The viewfinder part is correct, they take your old and give you a new.
-axel
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Hasselblad is at the moment the most sophisticated system there is. Rollei is at the moment only talking in riddles about the HY6 ( and already people are dreaming of it and even pretending they will buy the camera( one that until now even doesn't exist in real life)).
mamiya isn't a real competition because of the limitations of their lens quality and an uncertain future.
Plus, you can always upgrade your back to a CF product wich fits all camera on the market.
But why would you go for an other cameraplatform since H3 is so nice and more beautifull lenses are coming soon....?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111372\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
if you consider automatic lenscorrection for the 28 the ultimate, then yes the H3 is the most sophisticated system....but the backs are one step behind phase and the camera body is not everybody's dream by far....horizontal only shooting(vertical is a major pain handheld), poor ergonomics and questionable weightdistribution are not really high on my list when i look for a camera system....add to that the most limited of all lens ranges available and the by far highest price....
i am glad you are happy with yours, but there are options out there and i would strongly recommend testing different systems.....
about mamiya: just compared 2 shoots, one shot with the H2/ 55-110 zoom/P30 one with the mamiya 645afdII 55-110 zoom/P30....i would not consider the mamiya a great lens but it easily kept up with the hasselblad, but with the extra 5? pounds of the hasselblad set-up only about 1/3 of the shots were uesable although i already compensated by shooting at a highe iso....in combination with mirrorshake it was not a pretty edit.....and i remember being exhausted and having to put the camera down in between shooting because f the small grip and the enomous weigh hanging from it.....this is all vertical shooting...in comparison the mamiya feels like a slr....with cleaner files (400 instead of 800) and more to choose from....again i owuld not consider each of the lenses great....they are decend zooms, any fixed focus is better......
i am not saying the 645afd lenses are better then hasselblad, they are comparable, the RZ lenses are better then the hass lenses....noticeable....
but all this is personal opinion and everybody should really look into these things....different things work for different people....
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What I most like about the Hassy system is the upgradeability (don't know if this word even exists(I'm spanish)). Because talking with a rep of phase one some time ago while I was firstly thinking of the change to MF there is no upgrade policity, you just need to sell the back and get a new one... an this represents a lot of money. Now in spain is an offer h2d to h3d for 1000€, so it's way cheaper than selling a p25 to get the plus version.... So if there is no huge difference in quality I think i will go for the h3d22 or 31... have to think and test both....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111374\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
phase has a complete upgrade program....step up program , whatever oyu want to call it....of course they don't deal with bodies, but the backs can always be traded in....or the mount switched....
also worth considering is that the P30 with a mamiya 645afd costs about1/3 less then the H3D31 with comparable specs (other then sync speed) and better files (in my opinion...) the extra money buys a lot of lenses, and a complete RZ set-up which takes care of the sync speed issue.....
look into your options and really make sure you check out the workflow....
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Thanks for the information. For me the body option is hassy or hassy I shot quite much sports so the speed sync is a must. I can deal now with 1/200 but when panning is not possible (motorcycle coming towards you for example) and just want fill flash to kill shadows i get some blur where the flash is not hiting the subject so i have to dismiss using the flash... and here is where the sync of the hassy opens some doors...
So I am concentrating on the IQ, ISO, DR and easy to upgrade...
Any has done a side by side comparison for p25 and h3d? I will try to get the same object for the demos but it will be hard to use same light everything to make a fair comparison...
phase has a complete upgrade program....step up program , whatever oyu want to call it....of course they don't deal with bodies, but the backs can always be traded in....or the mount switched....
also worth considering is that the P30 with a mamiya 645afd costs about1/3 less then the H3D31 with comparable specs (other then sync speed) and better files (in my opinion...) the extra money buys a lot of lenses, and a complete RZ set-up which takes care of the sync speed issue.....
look into your options and really make sure you check out the workflow....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111518\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Thanks for the information. For me the body option is hassy or hassy I shot quite much sports so the speed sync is a must. I can deal now with 1/200 but when panning is not possible (motorcycle coming towards you for example) and just want fill flash to kill shadows i get some blur where the flash is not hiting the subject so i have to dismiss using the flash... and here is where the sync of the hassy opens some doors...
So I am concentrating on the IQ, ISO, DR and easy to upgrade...
Any has done a side by side comparison for p25 and h3d? I will try to get the same object for the demos but it will be hard to use same light everything to make a fair comparison...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111529\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
have you thought about how you want to focus? motorcycles coming at you? the af with the H system (or with the mamiya as well, althoug at least has a wider zone) in general autofocus with medium format is pretty much useless unless :all you objects are alway deadcenter in the frame or : they don't move at all...does not sound like your work would be in either category.....i shoot people and i gave up on AF some time ago....even if people sit still, constantly focus, recompose, focus, recompose,...you just miss all the moments trying to concentrate on moving the camera up and down.....manual focus is the only way......for what you are talking about the canons are much better, especially with their waaaaaaaaaaaaay better fill flash in combination with the autofocus....and much faster shooting in general.....
just think about it: any MF back is useless in a runway situation with a model WALKING towards you besides the autofocus, one shot every 1.2 seconds!!!!!and you are even thinking about the P25? 1 shot every 2 seconds?even if oyu set it up perfectly (focus set, flash set) you get one shot and the moment is gone and i doubt you can time it right to hit the fraction of a second when the bike is in the right place.....that is what the new 8frames/sec raw canon is for.....it will nail that shot every time....
when you test the H3, try and follow a bird and get 2 crisp shots....and then think about shooting sports...
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I do it much of the time manually, my d2x cannot keep the speed so no problem for the focus and never ever use sequence shooting always one frame each time... I tried long time ago sequence but is really hard to get the good one because it just depends on luck... so i prefer to trust my finger... But anyway i will try autofocus
have you thought about how you want to focus? motorcycles coming at you? the af with the H system (or with the mamiya as well, althoug at least has a wider zone) in general autofocus with medium format is pretty much useless unless :all you objects are alway deadcenter in the frame or : they don't move at all...does not sound like your work would be in either category.....i shoot people and i gave up on AF some time ago....even if people sit still, constantly focus, recompose, focus, recompose,...you just miss all the moments trying to concentrate on moving the camera up and down.....manual focus is the only way......for what you are talking about the canons are much better, especially with their waaaaaaaaaaaaay better fill flash in combination with the autofocus....and much faster shooting in general.....
just think about it: any MF back is useless in a runway situation with a model WALKING towards you besides the autofocus, one shot every 1.2 seconds!!!!!and you are even thinking about the P25? 1 shot every 2 seconds?even if oyu set it up perfectly (focus set, flash set) you get one shot and the moment is gone and i doubt you can time it right to hit the fraction of a second when the bike is in the right place.....that is what the new 8frames/sec raw canon is for.....it will nail that shot every time....
when you test the H3, try and follow a bird and get 2 crisp shots....and then think about shooting sports...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111538\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Hey - do you own an H2 or H3?
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Also for flash i use bowens explorer 1500. Thats why i get only 1/200 sync
have you thought about how you want to focus? motorcycles coming at you? the af with the H system (or with the mamiya as well, althoug at least has a wider zone) in general autofocus with medium format is pretty much useless unless :all you objects are alway deadcenter in the frame or : they don't move at all...does not sound like your work would be in either category.....i shoot people and i gave up on AF some time ago....even if people sit still, constantly focus, recompose, focus, recompose,...you just miss all the moments trying to concentrate on moving the camera up and down.....manual focus is the only way......for what you are talking about the canons are much better, especially with their waaaaaaaaaaaaay better fill flash in combination with the autofocus....and much faster shooting in general.....
just think about it: any MF back is useless in a runway situation with a model WALKING towards you besides the autofocus, one shot every 1.2 seconds!!!!!and you are even thinking about the P25? 1 shot every 2 seconds?even if oyu set it up perfectly (focus set, flash set) you get one shot and the moment is gone and i doubt you can time it right to hit the fraction of a second when the bike is in the right place.....that is what the new 8frames/sec raw canon is for.....it will nail that shot every time....
when you test the H3, try and follow a bird and get 2 crisp shots....and then think about shooting sports...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111538\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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nope
Hey - do you own an H2 or H3?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111541\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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also worth considering is that the P30 with a mamiya 645afd costs about1/3 less then the H3D31 with comparable specs (other then sync speed) and better files (in my opinion...)[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111518\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Can you point us to the files you have compared between the P30 and the H3D31?
Nick-T
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have you thought about how you want to focus? motorcycles coming at you? the af with the H system (or with the mamiya as well, althoug at least has a wider zone) in general autofocus with medium format is pretty much useless unless :all you objects are alway deadcenter in the frame or : they don't move at all...does not sound like your work would be in either category.....i shoot people and i gave up on AF some time ago....even if people sit still, constantly focus, recompose, focus, recompose,...you just miss all the moments trying to concentrate on moving the camera up and down.....manual focus is the only way......for what you are talking about the canons are much better, especially with their waaaaaaaaaaaaay better fill flash in combination with the autofocus....and much faster shooting in general.....
just think about it: any MF back is useless in a runway situation with a model WALKING towards you besides the autofocus, one shot every 1.2 seconds!!!!!and you are even thinking about the P25? 1 shot every 2 seconds?even if oyu set it up perfectly (focus set, flash set) you get one shot and the moment is gone and i doubt you can time it right to hit the fraction of a second when the bike is in the right place.....that is what the new 8frames/sec raw canon is for.....it will nail that shot every time....
when you test the H3, try and follow a bird and get 2 crisp shots....and then think about shooting sports...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111538\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
i was shooting a model jumping 3/4 towards the camera last week. the h1 has a lot of delay in the shutter as well. i use to own a canon, and have had no problems in the past. but the h1, i had to release the shutter half a meter before the model actually jumped. it was quite tricky.
the focus is pretty much useless for this type of situation as well.
paul
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Can you point us to the files you have compared between the P30 and the H3D31?
Nick-T
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111544\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
a friend told me that he had shot with the H3D and i asked to see a couple of raw files....i am not saying they looked bad at all, but overall i thought color was still a bit of an issue..noise seemed on par with the P30, it is always hard if oyu can't compare the same scene shot with 2 backs....i would say that it looked about 95% (almost) as good as the P30....i expected that..same chip....but the P30 has been out for a while and the P30+ is shipping soon, which should widen the gap again....
i am sure the H3D31 is extremely capable, but there are other options out there...better and cheaper ones in my opinion...
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I can deal now with 1/200 but when panning is not possible (motorcycle coming towards you for example) and just want fill flash to kill shadows i get some blur where the flash is not hiting the subject so i have to dismiss using the flash... and here is where the sync of the hassy opens some doors...
Even the hassie that syncs at 1/800 (correct me if im wrong) woudnt serve you too much in that situation.
For example: you set your lights to do a fill flash, that means low output flash is normally done, 1/1500 to up, you sync your camera to 1/800, one part of the "thing" will frozen to 1/1500 another to 1/800, the ghost image is still there.
So, in best of cases you will have to check your lights if you can go to 1/800 and still do a fill light, some systems have velocity control but i think that if you want that low velocity output you have to power up your unit pretty hard, and that reminds too much light to do a fill flash.
So after encountering with those problems time before, my only advice is light subjects perfectly, the easiest way is on camera flash, ringlight and pretty frontal kind of lightind, if you want backlight or side lighting do it accurately!!
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Yes I know what you mean about the ghosting that appears, but what i was talking is more about the blurring that will ocurr even with no flash, because normally with no flash i use speeds of 1/500 or 1/1000 to avoid bluring due to the bike speed.
Even the hassie that syncs at 1/800 (correct me if im wrong) woudnt serve you too much in that situation.
For example: you set your lights to do a fill flash, that means low output flash is normally done, 1/1500 to up, you sync your camera to 1/800, one part of the "thing" will frozen to 1/1500 another to 1/800, the ghost image is still there.
So, in best of cases you will have to check your lights if you can go to 1/800 and still do a fill light, some systems have velocity control but i think that if you want that low velocity output you have to power up your unit pretty hard, and that reminds too much light to do a fill flash.
So after encountering with those problems time before, my only advice is light subjects perfectly, the easiest way is on camera flash, ringlight and pretty frontal kind of lightind, if you want backlight or side lighting do it accurately!!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111577\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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cesarrojo,
MF cameras were never designed to handle action shots. Period.
I am not saying it is impossible to use these cameras, but it won't be as straight forward as pulling 8 frames/ sec with a snappy multi-point auto focus...
Here is an example, taken with a 11MP Leaf Valeo back, on a 553ELX with 500/f8 lens and a WLF, wide open @ 100iso...
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cesarrojo,
MF cameras were never designed to handle action shots. Period.
I am not saying it is impossible to use these cameras, but it won't be as straight forward as pulling 8 frames/ sec with a snappy multi-point auto focus 35mm...
Here is an example, taken with a 11MP Leaf Valeo back, on a 553ELX with 500/f8 lens and a WLF, wide open @ 100iso...that might be the other extreme...today's portable backs are much more capable with faster capture rates, built in screens and higher iso...
[attachment=2275:attachment]
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Thanks for the input, actually my main income comes from motorsports (almost 60% shoots are static) but for action never ever use sequence, always one frame each time rider passes by... As I am not doing races its not important to miss a crash sequence or something like that.. Also if doing races sure I will take my D2x, but even with that I am not thinking on sequence because its hard to get the right frame....
Can't see the pic big size, but looks like Sete, isn't he?
cesarrojo,
MF cameras were never designed to handle action shots. Period.
I am not saying it is impossible to use these cameras, but it won't be as straight forward as pulling 8 frames/ sec with a snappy multi-point auto focus...
Here is an example, taken with a 11MP Leaf Valeo back, on a 553ELX with 500/f8 lens and a WLF, wide open @ 100iso...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111751\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Right, now i can see it!
By the way I have a test for the thursday night.... I got a really good offer on the H3D39 + 80mm, same price here in spain than the p25 with H2 + 80mm. I think I will go that way... H3D31 is quite good price but as stated on the luminous landscape test looks like the microlenses made the back loosing some quality...
cesarrojo,
MF cameras were never designed to handle action shots. Period.
I am not saying it is impossible to use these cameras, but it won't be as straight forward as pulling 8 frames/ sec with a snappy multi-point auto focus 35mm...
Here is an example, taken with a 11MP Leaf Valeo back, on a 553ELX with 500/f8 lens and a WLF, wide open @ 100iso...that might be the other extreme...today's portable backs are much more capable with faster capture rates, built in screens and higher iso...
[attachment=2275:attachment]
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111752\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Cesar
Just for curiosity,where do you anticipate the quality gains of a MFDB to give you an advantage
over the type of quality available to you from either a high end Nikon or Canon DSLR?
As a Canon 1DsMkll owner and frequent MFDB user it's abundantly clear that the sheer
quality of almost all MFDBs trumps my Canon files.
It's also clear that the 'right' equipment should be used for the right task and it's here,
knowing that your primary shooting subject is motorsports,that I don't see the practical
advantage that the backs could provide for this subject.
I have to assume that the majority of your competition will be nailing tack sharp images
with 300-600mm lenses (even if they are exposing one frame at the peak moment and not
relying on a 10 FPS motor to provide some 'security') and I think you will be handicapped
more often than not when considering the areas of strength of a MFDB
I'd think very carefully on this decision and if your local DB reps are aware of your area
of expertise and are still pushing a DB over a DSLR then I believe you are getting poor advice
Good luck,
Mark
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Sorry, maybe you missundestod me, I am not doing any competitions, so when I shoot in a circuit i get into the grass or even in a safe place in the asphalt. I shoot almost 90% of my shoots with a 28-70mm. And sometimes i go a bit further with a 105mm macro lens or a 200mm (but i find out that going longer makes more and more difficult shooting in slow shutter speeds, I magane to get a bike sharp at 1/60 or so and that makes an incredible sense of movement than with a telephoto is almost impossible to get...), but as i told i am not stacked behind a fence.
Cesar
Just for curiosity,where do you anticipate the quality gains of a MFDB to give you an advantage
over the type of quality available to you from either a high end Nikon or Canon DSLR?
As a Canon 1DsMkll owner and frequent MFDB user it's abundantly clear that the sheer
quality of almost all MFDBs trumps my Canon files.
It's also clear that the 'right' equipment should be used for the right task and it's here,
knowing that your primary shooting subject is motorsports,that I don't see the practical
advantage that the backs could provide for this subject.
I have to assume that the majority of your competition will be nailing tack sharp images
with 300-600mm lenses (even if they are exposing one frame at the peak moment and not
relying on a 10 FPS motor to provide some 'security') and I think you will be handicapped
more often than not when considering the areas of strength of a MFDB
I'd think very carefully on this decision and if your local DB reps are aware of your area
of expertise and are still pushing a DB over a DSLR then I believe you are getting poor advice
Good luck,
Mark
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111765\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Hasselblad is at the moment the most sophisticated system there is. Rollei is at the moment only talking in riddles about the HY6 ( and already people are dreaming of it and even pretending they will buy the camera( one that until now even doesn't exist in real life)).
mamiya isn't a real competition because of the limitations of their lens quality and an uncertain future.
Plus, you can always upgrade your back to a CF product wich fits all camera on the market.
But why would you go for an other cameraplatform since H3 is so nice and more beautifull lenses are coming soon....?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111372\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Where you say "mamiya isn't a real competition because of the limitations of their lens quality", what do you mean exactly? What are you basing this on? Can you back this up with any hard facts? Dissing gear for the sake of it isn't very imaginative, is it? Mamiya has been making top lenses for professionals for a very long time...
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Where you say "mamiya isn't a real competition because of the limitations of their lens quality", what do you mean exactly? What are you basing this on? Can you back this up with any hard facts? Dissing gear for the sake of it isn't very imaginative, is it? Mamiya has been making top lenses for professionals for a very long time...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111784\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
i tested the sharpness of both the 35mm and 80mm of the mamiya and hc lenses side by side (inc contax), the mamiya was sharper by a noise. i also checked the results with a fussy car photographer techo friend of mine, and he concluded the same.
he had done a similar test a few years back with the contax and mamiya, and found the mamiya sharper.
i bought the h1 because of the leaf shutter, but i still find the sharpness suspect in some situations- ie the zoom when its in the 60mm to 90mm range is soft. the only lens thats blown me away has been the 100 2.2.
paul
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i tested the sharpness of both the 35mm and 80mm of the mamiya and hc lenses side by side (inc contax), the mamiya was sharper by a noise. i also checked the results with a fussy car photographer techo friend of mine, and he concluded the same.
he had done a similar test a few years back with the contax and mamiya, and found the mamiya sharper.
i bought the h1 because of the leaf shutter, but i still find the sharpness suspect in some situations- ie the zoom when its in the 60mm to 90mm range is soft. the only lens thats blown me away has been the 100 2.2.
paul
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111787\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The Mamiya 35 mm isn't perfect, but it is a very decent lens indeed.
I was never impressed by the HC 35 mm. That lens is really large, heavy and pricey but it didn't appear to perform significantly better than the Mamiya, although the latter is twice cheaper, smaller and lighter.
Regards,
Bernard
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Where you say "mamiya isn't a real competition because of the limitations of their lens quality", what do you mean exactly? What are you basing this on? Can you back this up with any hard facts? Dissing gear for the sake of it isn't very imaginative, is it? Mamiya has been making top lenses for professionals for a very long time...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=111784\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hi
I agree & on a job last year I ended up shooting with both the Mamiya 645 AFD/150 & H2/150 on an Aptus 22. Same lighting, f stop... & for me I thought the Mamiya had better tonality. It was very close and really you are comparing two Japanese lens makers Mamiya & Fugi (Hasselblad). It is your personal choice which system you like the best & they both have excellent lenses.
Denis
www.montalbetticampbell.com
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Finally this morning I did an test for the H3d22, 39 and also put my d2x.
The main conclusion is that for color hassy wins hands down and also resolution, but enlarging the 22mpx to 39mpx its hard to tell on some parts of the picture where there is not massive detail, but anyway, difference is just not super huge.
But then i tried enlarging the 22mpx to the maximum until i can see picture pixelated. The 22 i could get up to 74Mpx and with the 39 i got up to 145Mpx. Also looking 400% zoom without interpolation you can see quite much difference.
Where I got really disaponted is with 32secs exp, its just horrible with so much hot pixels on the image, a lot of noise reduction on the image also.. This made me a bit confused because for sure a 10secs is a bit noisy and for shooting with a RIG this could be a problem as you need long exp always... Anyone has found this issues?
Here you can see H3D22, 39 and D2X all enlarged to 39MPx. To be fair I have to say that tripod was a bit closer on the H3D22. Let me know what you think.
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Finally this morning I did an test for the H3d22, 39 and also put my d2x.
The main conclusion is that for color hassy wins hands down and also resolution, but enlarging the 22mpx to 39mpx its hard to tell on some parts of the picture where there is not massive detail, but anyway, difference is just not super huge.
But then i tried enlarging the 22mpx to the maximum until i can see picture pixelated. The 22 i could get up to 74Mpx and with the 39 i got up to 145Mpx. Also looking 400% zoom without interpolation you can see quite much difference.
Where I got really disaponted is with 32secs exp, its just horrible with so much hot pixels on the image, a lot of noise reduction on the image also.. This made me a bit confused because for sure a 10secs is a bit noisy and for shooting with a RIG this could be a problem as you need long exp always... Anyone has found this issues?
Here you can see H3D22, 39 and D2X all enlarged to 39MPx. To be fair I have to say that tripod was a bit closer on the H3D22. Let me know what you think.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=112045\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Try to up the bit depth to 16 on the H3D images when exporting from flexcolor.
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Thanks! but as main comparison is between the 22 and 39 (the d2x has not much to do) i think is fair this way also.
Try to up the bit depth to 16 on the H3D images when exporting from flexcolor.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=112055\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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If your work is about shooting moving subjects, I'd test again in those conditions.
My guess is that a D2x/1Ds2 in AF mode properlly used will deliver an image with more absolute detail than any MFDB used in AF/MF mode.
You migtht be able to do better from time to time with the MFDB from time to time, but think average image quality per hour of shooting.
Just my 2 cent.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Cesar, one question? Who is your dealer of choice in Barcelona? Arpi or Casanova?
Regrds
Heinrich
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those are shops, I'm talking directly to the official dealer of phaseone (danishphoto) and hassel (tetenal)
I will go for a phaseone finally almosts for sure, have to do a final test, but the phase one offers long exp that is a must for some type of shooting like RIG.... (also for fun i like doing star trails)
Cesar, one question? Who is your dealer of choice in Barcelona? Arpi or Casanova?
Regrds
Heinrich
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=112641\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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those are shops, I'm talking directly to the official dealer of phaseone (danishphoto) and hassel (tetenal)
I will go for a phaseone finally almosts for sure, have to do a final test, but the phase one offers long exp that is a must for some type of shooting like RIG.... (also for fun i like doing star trails)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=112642\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Okay! But why, did you have a look at the offers from them as well? Or are they shitty ( I mean the shops) from ground on?