Luminous Landscape Forum

Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: chris anderson on March 18, 2007, 06:30:36 pm

Title: Z3100 Test target
Post by: chris anderson on March 18, 2007, 06:30:36 pm
Were is the test target file located? I can't find it??
   C
Title: Z3100 Test target
Post by: Jim Cole on March 18, 2007, 06:40:30 pm
Chris,

Are you talking about the one with the strawberries, etc...?

Jim
Title: Z3100 Test target
Post by: chris anderson on March 18, 2007, 07:16:02 pm
the actual 500 patch target
Title: Z3100 Test target
Post by: Jim Cole on March 18, 2007, 08:20:41 pm
Sorry Chris, I don't know where that is. I realized after I answered before that you had said "Target" not photo.

Hope you find it.

Jim
Title: Z3100 Test target
Post by: Greg_E on March 18, 2007, 08:47:29 pm
It is possible that an image file does not exist, the software could simply send the numbers through the driver. Though there should be a reference file somewhere, or you could pull it out of a profile that was built from the HP software.
Title: Z3100 Test target
Post by: chris anderson on March 19, 2007, 10:26:02 am
Quote
It is possible that an image file does not exist, the software could simply send the numbers through the driver. Though there should be a reference file somewhere, or you could pull it out of a profile that was built from the HP software.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=107375\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]



can't find it...........................
Title: Z3100 Test target
Post by: neil snape on March 20, 2007, 11:00:39 am
When trying to open the profile in profile maker , it fails. So it may be a little more difficult. You can export the text data from Colorthink though.
The charts are however in the APS , including the ref file and tiff, of all the charts including the tc 9.18.

What do you want to do with the internal profile chart?
Title: Z3100 Test target
Post by: chris anderson on March 20, 2007, 11:11:44 am
Quote
When trying to open the profile in profile maker , it fails. So it may be a little more difficult. You can export the text data from Colorthink though.
The charts are however in the APS , including the ref file and tiff, of all the charts including the tc 9.18.

What do you want to do with the internal profile chart?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=107707\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]




profile my epson 3800  : )
Title: Z3100 Test target
Post by: neil snape on March 20, 2007, 02:30:36 pm
Quote
profile my epson 3800  : )
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=107710\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You can with APS. Print the chart out on the Epson, read it in the Z and profile.
Currently the page set ups though are not correct in APS. Epect an update quickly to allow 17" pages .
Title: Z3100 Test target
Post by: chris anderson on March 20, 2007, 02:40:40 pm
Quote
You can with APS. Print the chart out on the Epson, read it in the Z and profile.
Currently the page set ups though are not correct in APS. Epect an update quickly to allow 17" pages .
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=107738\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]



i was trying to be cheap and do it without aps : )
Title: Z3100 Test target
Post by: zirmedien on March 20, 2007, 02:53:03 pm
Quote
i was trying to be cheap and do it without aps : )
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=107739\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Yes, I would like this way to profile my others machines too, but I think the target is only on the printers harddisk and there's no ftp- or other account to read this file.
Title: Z3100 Test target
Post by: rdonson on March 20, 2007, 03:34:10 pm
Quote
You can with APS. Print the chart out on the Epson, read it in the Z and profile.
Currently the page set ups though are not correct in APS. Epect an update quickly to allow 17" pages .
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=107738\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Nothing smaller than a 17" wide page?  Couldn't this be accomplished on a 13" wide page?  It would sure be nice.
Title: Z3100 Test target
Post by: Greg_E on March 20, 2007, 04:51:38 pm
If someone with ColorThink or ColorshopX would pull the text data out of the profile, then you could build the target in photoshop and be all set. Not as easy as it seems at first, but also not that hard, it just takes a bunch of time and persistance.
Title: Z3100 Test target
Post by: neil snape on March 20, 2007, 05:38:59 pm
Quote
Nothing smaller than a 17" wide page?  Couldn't this be accomplished on a 13" wide page?  It would sure be nice.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=107745\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes it would be. I just requested the same today. It is possible to do, is the only news I have on that.
I have been using A3+ sheets for many years 13x19".  For posting charts though people usually sent me A4 or letter 3 pages of the 918 charts.
Title: Z3100 Test target
Post by: neil snape on March 20, 2007, 05:40:35 pm
Quote
If someone with ColorThink or ColorshopX would pull the text data out of the profile, then you could build the target in photoshop and be all set. Not as easy as it seems at first, but also not that hard, it just takes a bunch of time and persistance.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=107755\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes you'd have to reconstruct the bars that the red optical sensor runs over to tell the machine where it is in the chart/line.
Title: Z3100 Test target
Post by: chris anderson on March 20, 2007, 05:46:09 pm
anybody want to split the cost of aps and get it with me, hehe : )
Title: Z3100 Test target
Post by: Greg_E on March 20, 2007, 08:13:10 pm
Neil,

Again the bars would present little obstacle since they already have a print to measure from. Again, not the hardest task in the world, just time consuming. I did check the latest version of Xrite's Colorport, but it does not have anything about the Z series printers.

If someone will zip and send a profile from the HP "basic" software to me, I'll try using ColorshopX to pull the measurement file back out. It will then be up to someone else to build the target since I have no idea what it looks like. A picture of the printed target and maybe some measurements would be good too.

I'd bet there is a way to measure those patches with a hand held spectro and push it back into the software too (if you really try)
Title: Z3100 Test target
Post by: neil snape on March 21, 2007, 03:20:48 am
There will always be a hack but it will be  lot more work than it's worth. Since everyone that has a spectro will have a profiling app it would probably be better to just do it that way.
The APS is or will be exportable so it would be better to export, print, and measure in the Z than hacking the PRintProfiler set ups.
A side note. All measures on the Z are spectral. The results are in the profiles so there you can find lots of insights to colour.
Title: Z3100 Test target
Post by: Greg_E on March 21, 2007, 03:45:50 am
For all those people that want to try and make a hack, Neil sent me the text file for one of these profiles. You'll have to parse the data out of the file to make the target. I also noted that the measurements do not start until 410nm which means it is spectrally a little shorter than the Xrite instuments have been. This may become a problem with papers that have a lot of OBA in them as it will not see them as well as a device that goes down to 380nm or even 400nm. I wonder if the Isis has the same limitation?

The data is too large to put in a post, so if I have time tomorrow I'll try and distil it down to something more useful. If not I'll zip up the text and just give a link to download it. You will still have a lot of work ahead of you to make this target. I've done this same thing before, and it is very time consuming, but if you want it bad enough, then I guess you'll put in the effort. Since I don't have one of these printers, I'm not going to put in too much effort for you.

Here is a sample of what you might have to deal with:
Quote
BEGIN_DATA_FORMAT
 ID   RGB_R   RGB_G   RGB_B   MEASURED   SPECTRAL_380   SPECTRAL_390   SPECTRAL_400   
SPECTRAL_410   SPECTRAL_420   SPECTRAL_430   SPECTRAL_440   SPECTRAL_450   
SPECTRAL_460   SPECTRAL_470   SPECTRAL_480   SPECTRAL_490   SPECTRAL_500   SPECTRAL_510   
SPECTRAL_520   SPECTRAL_530   SPECTRAL_540   SPECTRAL_550   SPECTRAL_560   
SPECTRAL_570   SPECTRAL_580   SPECTRAL_590   SPECTRAL_600   SPECTRAL_610   SPECTRAL_620   
SPECTRAL_630   SPECTRAL_640   SPECTRAL_650   SPECTRAL_660   SPECTRAL_670   
SPECTRAL_680   SPECTRAL_690   SPECTRAL_700   SPECTRAL_710   SPECTRAL_720   SPECTRAL_730
END_DATA_FORMAT
BEGIN_DATA
 0   0   0   0   1   0   0   0   0.01063741744   0.02127483487   0.02303142101   
0.02213389613   0.0221980568   0.02217584848   0.0222490672   0.02234395035   0.02244795114   
0.02255921066   0.0226723142   0.0227853898   0.0228935685   0.02300041728   
0.023105748   0.02321596816   0.02334711142   0.02347011305   0.02354280651   
0.02362053469   0.02376078442   0.02391494438   0.02403546497   0.02417666279   
0.02441275306   0.02463648655   0.02471843921   0.02479936182   0.02502514981   
0.02525093779   0.02525093779   0.02525093779   0.02525093779
 1   0   0   43   1   0   0   0   0.02189087309   0.04378174618   0.04649745673   
0.04372559488   0.04372611269   0.04360675812   0.04324242845   0.04259163141   
0.04150215536   0.04018103331   0.03868666291   0.0373127237   0.03641371429   0.03586558625   
0.0356576629   0.0358043015   0.03634950891   0.03719362989   0.03843490034   
0.03952364996   0.03964309767   0.03969278559   0.04036279768   0.04146471992   
0.04326913133   0.04508911818   0.04623613134   0.04698566347   0.04720794782   
0.04743023589   0.04743023589   0.04743023589   0.04743023589
 2   0   0   85   1   0   0   0   0.03300821036   0.06601642072   0.07153562456   
0.06877535582   0.06913318485   0.06855603307   0.0667828694   0.06383511424   0.0592979081   
0.0542190671   0.04932828248   0.0451650694   0.04271586612   0.04136960953   
0.04083227366   0.04113919288   0.04224806279   0.04409779236   0.04714257643   
0.04979426414   0.04980152473   0.04960811138   0.05093384534   0.05369918048   
0.05919241905   0.06502982974   0.06905434281   0.0718742907   0.07272135466   
0.07356841862   0.07356841862   0.07356841862   0.07356841862
 3   0   0   128   1   0   0   0   0.05152605474   0.1030521095   0.112324208   0.1084652022   
0.1085634008   0.1064684391   0.1016528979   0.09433627129   0.08366829902   
0.07233079523   0.06260818243   0.05484238639   0.05059063435   0.04849139228   
0.04765665159   0.048223041   0.04997814819   0.05308108032   0.05867266282   
0.0635953024   0.06356818974   0.06310180575   0.06506066024   0.07010182738   
0.08151201904   0.09426686168   0.1043687612   0.1120241061   0.1143204048   0.1166167036   
0.1166167036   0.1166167036   0.1166167036

That also shows that 380nm-400nm are not measured. This may prevent the i1 from getting an LED light source. I would be interested to see what the Isis has for an output.
Title: Z3100 Test target
Post by: neil snape on March 21, 2007, 03:55:41 am
It's intentional tht there is not light emitted , nor read in the 380-410 range.
The spectro then has no UV to make or read.
Title: Z3100 Test target
Post by: Greg_E on March 21, 2007, 04:04:41 am
Quote
It's intentional tht there is not light emitted , nor read in the 380-410 range.
The spectro then has no UV to make or read.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=107821\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


But not all papers are missing info in that area, I would still consider 400nm important. Also just because it doesn't read it, doesn't mean that the paper isn't affected by the light. In order to get usable output at 410nm, there will still be some light emitted below that wavelength. LEDs are pretty tight, but not that tight when you really start looking at the graphs of their output. I would be very interested to see the specs on those LEDs (probably made by Nichia), and they could have very easily included LEDs that went down to 370nm, but I don't know if the output would have been enough without using several. But I guess this should really be discussed in a separate thread.
Title: Z3100 Test target
Post by: Greg_E on March 21, 2007, 04:07:56 am
Let's try this again. Here is just the RGB data (attached in CSV and in post) that you need (plus the patch number):
PatchNumber,R,G,B

0,0,0,0
1,0,0,43
2,0,0,85
3,0,0,128
4,0,0,170
5,0,0,213
6,0,0,255
7,0,43,0
8,0,43,43
9,0,43,85
10,0,43,128
11,0,43,170
12,0,43,213
13,0,43,255
14,0,85,0
15,0,85,43
16,0,85,85
17,0,85,128
18,0,85,170
19,0,85,213
20,0,85,255
21,0,128,0
22,0,128,43
23,0,128,85
24,0,128,128
25,0,128,170
26,0,128,213
27,0,128,255
28,0,170,0
29,0,170,43
30,0,170,85
31,0,170,128
32,0,170,170
33,0,170,213
34,0,170,255
35,0,213,0
36,0,213,43
37,0,213,85
38,0,213,128
39,0,213,170
40,0,213,213
41,0,213,255
42,0,255,0
43,0,255,43
44,0,255,85
45,0,255,128
46,0,255,170
47,0,255,213
48,0,255,255
49,43,0,0
50,43,0,43
51,43,0,85
52,43,0,128
53,43,0,170
54,43,0,213
55,43,0,255
56,43,43,0
57,43,43,43
58,43,43,85
59,43,43,128
60,43,43,170
61,43,43,213
62,43,43,255
63,43,85,0
64,43,85,43
65,43,85,85
66,43,85,128
67,43,85,170
68,43,85,213
69,43,85,255
70,43,128,0
71,43,128,43
72,43,128,85
73,43,128,128
74,43,128,170
75,43,128,213
76,43,128,255
77,43,170,0
78,43,170,43
79,43,170,85
80,43,170,128
81,43,170,170
82,43,170,213
83,43,170,255
84,43,213,0
85,43,213,43
86,43,213,85
87,43,213,128
88,43,213,170
89,43,213,213
90,43,213,255
91,43,255,0
92,43,255,43
93,43,255,85
94,43,255,128
95,43,255,170
96,43,255,213
97,43,255,255
98,85,0,0
99,85,0,43
100,85,0,85
101,85,0,128
102,85,0,170
103,85,0,213
104,85,0,255
105,85,43,0
106,85,43,43
107,85,43,85
108,85,43,128
109,85,43,170
110,85,43,213
111,85,43,255
112,85,85,0
113,85,85,43
114,85,85,85
115,85,85,128
116,85,85,170
117,85,85,213
118,85,85,255
119,85,128,0
120,85,128,43
121,85,128,85
122,85,128,128
123,85,128,170
124,85,128,213
125,85,128,255
126,85,170,0
127,85,170,43
128,85,170,85
129,85,170,128
130,85,170,170
131,85,170,213
132,85,170,255
133,85,213,0
134,85,213,43
135,85,213,85
136,85,213,128
137,85,213,170
138,85,213,213
139,85,213,255
140,85,255,0
141,85,255,43
142,85,255,85
143,85,255,128
144,85,255,170
145,85,255,213
146,85,255,255
147,128,0,0
148,128,0,43
149,128,0,85
150,128,0,128
151,128,0,170
152,128,0,213
153,128,0,255
154,128,43,0
155,128,43,43
156,128,43,85
157,128,43,128
158,128,43,170
159,128,43,213
160,128,43,255
161,128,85,0
162,128,85,43
163,128,85,85
164,128,85,128
165,128,85,170
166,128,85,213
167,128,85,255
168,128,128,0
169,128,128,43
170,128,128,85
171,128,128,128
172,128,128,170
173,128,128,213
174,128,128,255
175,128,170,0
176,128,170,43
177,128,170,85
178,128,170,128
179,128,170,170
180,128,170,213
181,128,170,255
182,128,213,0
183,128,213,43
184,128,213,85
185,128,213,128
186,128,213,170
187,128,213,213
188,128,213,255
189,128,255,0
190,128,255,43
191,128,255,85
192,128,255,128
193,128,255,170
194,128,255,213
195,128,255,255
196,170,0,0
197,170,0,43
198,170,0,85
199,170,0,128
200,170,0,170
201,170,0,213
202,170,0,255
203,170,43,0
204,170,43,43
205,170,43,85
206,170,43,128
207,170,43,170
208,170,43,213
209,170,43,255
210,170,85,0
211,170,85,43
212,170,85,85
213,170,85,128
214,170,85,170
215,170,85,213
216,170,85,255
217,170,128,0
218,170,128,43
219,170,128,85
220,170,128,128
221,170,128,170
222,170,128,213
223,170,128,255
224,170,170,0
225,170,170,43
226,170,170,85
227,170,170,128
228,170,170,170
229,170,170,213
230,170,170,255
231,170,213,0
232,170,213,43
233,170,213,85
234,170,213,128
235,170,213,170
236,170,213,213
237,170,213,255
238,170,255,0
239,170,255,43
240,170,255,85
241,170,255,128
242,170,255,170
243,170,255,213
244,170,255,255
245,213,0,0
246,213,0,43
247,213,0,85
248,213,0,128
249,213,0,170
250,213,0,213
251,213,0,255
252,213,43,0
253,213,43,43
254,213,43,85
255,213,43,128
256,213,43,170
257,213,43,213
258,213,43,255
259,213,85,0
260,213,85,43
261,213,85,85
262,213,85,128
263,213,85,170
264,213,85,213
265,213,85,255
266,213,128,0
267,213,128,43
268,213,128,85
269,213,128,128
270,213,128,170
271,213,128,213
272,213,128,255
273,213,170,0
274,213,170,43
275,213,170,85
276,213,170,128
277,213,170,170
278,213,170,213
279,213,170,255
280,213,213,0
281,213,213,43
282,213,213,85
283,213,213,128
284,213,213,170
285,213,213,213
286,213,213,255
287,213,255,0
288,213,255,43
289,213,255,85
290,213,255,128
291,213,255,170
292,213,255,213
293,213,255,255
294,255,0,0
295,255,0,43
296,255,0,85
297,255,0,128
298,255,0,170
299,255,0,213
300,255,0,255
301,255,43,0
302,255,43,43
303,255,43,85
304,255,43,128
305,255,43,170
306,255,43,213
307,255,43,255
308,255,85,0
309,255,85,43
310,255,85,85
311,255,85,128
312,255,85,170
313,255,85,213
314,255,85,255
315,255,128,0
316,255,128,43
317,255,128,85
318,255,128,128
319,255,128,170
320,255,128,213
321,255,128,255
322,255,170,0
323,255,170,43
324,255,170,85
325,255,170,128
326,255,170,170
327,255,170,213
328,255,170,255
329,255,213,0
330,255,213,43
331,255,213,85
332,255,213,128
333,255,213,170
334,255,213,213
335,255,213,255
336,255,255,0
337,255,255,43
338,255,255,85
339,255,255,128
340,255,255,170
341,255,255,213
342,255,255,255
343,43,21,0
344,64,21,0
345,64,43,0
346,64,43,21
347,85,21,0
348,85,43,21
349,85,64,0
350,85,64,21
351,85,64,43
352,106,21,0
353,106,43,0
354,106,43,21
355,106,64,0
356,106,64,21
357,106,64,43
358,106,85,0
359,106,85,21
360,106,85,43
361,106,85,64
362,128,43,21
363,128,64,21
364,128,64,43
365,128,85,21
366,128,85,64
367,128,106,21
368,128,106,43
369,128,106,64
370,128,106,85
371,149,43,21
372,149,64,21
373,149,64,43
374,149,85,21
375,149,85,43
376,149,85,64
377,149,106,21
378,149,106,43
379,149,106,64
380,149,106,85
381,149,128,21
382,149,128,43
383,149,128,64
384,149,128,85
385,149,128,106
386,170,64,43
387,170,85,64
388,170,106,43
389,170,106,64
390,170,106,85
391,170,128,64
392,170,128,106
393,170,149,43
394,170,149,64
395,170,149,85
396,170,149,106
397,170,149,128
398,191,85,64
399,191,106,64
400,191,106,85
401,191,128,64
402,191,128,85
403,191,128,106
404,191,149,64
405,191,149,85
406,191,149,106
407,191,149,128
408,191,170,64
409,191,170,85
410,191,170,106
411,191,170,128
412,191,170,149
413,213,106,85
414,213,128,106
415,213,149,85
416,213,149,106
417,213,149,128
418,213,170,106
419,213,170,149
420,213,191,85
421,213,191,106
422,213,191,128
423,213,191,149
424,213,191,170
425,234,106,85
426,234,128,85
427,234,128,106
428,234,149,85
429,234,149,106
430,234,149,128
431,234,170,85
432,234,170,106
433,234,170,128
434,234,170,149
435,234,191,85
436,234,191,106
437,234,191,128
438,234,191,149
439,234,191,170
440,234,213,85
441,234,213,106
442,234,213,128
443,234,213,149
444,234,213,170
445,234,213,191
446,255,128,106
447,255,149,106
448,255,149,128
449,255,170,106
450,255,170,149
451,255,191,106
452,255,191,128
453,255,191,149
454,255,191,170
455,255,213,106
456,255,213,149
457,255,213,191
458,255,234,106
459,255,234,128
460,255,234,149
461,255,234,170
462,255,234,191
463,255,234,213