Luminous Landscape Forum

Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: mjgakatr on January 29, 2007, 10:20:19 pm

Title: HP Z3100
Post by: mjgakatr on January 29, 2007, 10:20:19 pm
I received my printer 2 days ago and will give my initial feedback.  Some of my comments will address questions in other threads on issues and paper types.  It seems after I started writing my notes that it got very long so hopefully this will be helpful for new users.

Hardware/Software:
- Microsoft Windows XP SP2
- Ethernet connection (20 foot run)
- HP z3100 24"
- Software
     - HP Easy Printer Care version 2.0.1.2
     - HP Designjet Z3100 Series Raster Driver version 60.63.42.0
     - Firmware TR12-RO_4.0.0.4 => TR12-RO_4.0.0.6 (I will comment on update)
- Printing Software
     - Qimage v2007.151

Assembly:
- At a high level very good instructions and smooth construction.
- Around 60 minutes to construct.
- I had one other person to assist holding parts and flipping printer over.
- 1 extra screw from frame construction (I assume this is by design).
- 1 smaller screw found in basket bag (not sure where this screw came from).
- There is a desiccant bag taped to bottom of printer that you need to remove (not in instructions).
- The left printer foot that you attach the basket tube to is a bit loose and the weight of the basket pulls it out.  I had to use a screw driver to push down the tab to get it to lock into place.
- The stand and rollers are very nice.  I have the printer setup on carpet and it rolls very easy and makes accessing the back of the printer and loading rolls very easy.
- Ink installation very smooth (take your time to properly shake cartridges).
- I knew the 24" inch model only came with 69ml cartridges but I was expecting half filled 130ml cartridges versus mini 69ml cartridges.  No problems here just an observation.
- Print head installation very smooth (take your time to shake heads and clean the sensors with the included swabs)

Software Installation:
- I used the HP Start Up Kit disk supplied with the printer.
- Although the instructions recommend you start installing the software while the printer is initializing (about 20-30 minutes), I did not have success doing so
- I was running the setup for a networked environment.
- During initial installation you are left guessing if anything is getting installed because there is no window showing you progress or activity.  You just have to wait it out and a window eventually pops up to configure the network.
- Auto configuration automatically found my printer and assigned an IP address.
- Everything appears to install as it should but then you get a "Failed to install" message at the very end.  I tried installation about 3 times while the printer was initializing and got the same message.
- At that point I assumed I had to wait for the printer to finish initializing
- I was right.  Once the printer finished initializing I was able to run the software again and complete successfully.
- Upon reboot the software finalizes installation and asks to check for updates.  I choose yes and it automatically updated from the HP website (software only, not firmware as that is another process).
- At this point the printer was assembled and software was installed and ready to go.

Initial Alignment & Calibration:
- Although I had plenty of other roll paper to use for the initial prints I opted to utilize the included HP Premium Instant Dry Gloss Photo Paper included with printer.
- It is a 24" roll and about 15 feet long.
- One complaint is that HP uses masking tape to hold the roll shut.  This ruins the leading edge of roll and the subsequent paper on the other side of the roll that the tape contacts.  After peeling off the tape it obviously damages the paper and leaves a sticky mark.  The marks are readily evident when the printer puts ink down on those sections.  You should probably just trim back the roll past the tape marks before you start.
- Loading the roll on the spindle was straight forward and there is a nice graphic on the spindle that tells you the proper orientation for the paper.
- The sample paper is on a 2"core and the paper has some extreme contour to it when you open it up.  This contour made it a little difficult to get the paper feed into the printer.  It took several attempts for the printer to grab the paper but it finally worked (this was not an issue on any other rolls I have but they are also larger rolls and 3" cores).
- The LCD panel prompts you for roll or sheet as well as paper type which you need to choose for a list of options.  Since you are using HP paper it shows up in the list as it should.
- Since this is the first print with the new print heads you have to do a head alignment test.
- The test prints a bunch of lines and patterns and it looked pretty bad as it had gaps and missed lines and looked typical of nozzle clogs.  I assume this is normal since it is indeed a print head alignment test.
- I then ran a color calibration test.  You only need an A4 sheet of paper but I was lazy and used the roll paper.  I allowed for the default 2 minutes dry time.
- I observed the print pattern on the printer as it was drying and did not notice any marks or defects.
- I then observed the print pattern post printer scanning and did notice some marks on the test pattern.  Note that these where not present prior to the color scan process so I assumed the marks were from the spectrophotometer.  The marks ran vertical to the roll paper (opposite the head direction) and they just looked like water marks in perfectly parallel rows.   Note I have only seen this mark pattern after a scan procedure on the test charts.
- Once the color calibration process was completed I immediately performed a “Create and Install ICC Profile” procedure.
- While the Color Calibration procedure only required an A4 sheet of paper, the ICC Profile procedure requires at least an A3 sheet of paper.  Once again I just used the 24” roll paper that came with the printer and the test pattern was printed across the entire length of the paper to conserve paper.  I created the chart with GE on.
- I used the default 5 minute dry period.  While the pattern was drying I again observed the printed area to inspect for marks or defects.  Once again I did not see any marks prior to the scan process.
- After the 5 minute dry period the paper was pulled back into the printer and scanned.  After the paper was cut and ejected I observed the same marks on the test pattern as I saw on the color calibration chart after scanning.  Again, this seems to be the result of the scanning process and I have not seen on normal prints.

First Prints:
- Up to this point I have only seen a head alignment pattern that looked bad and a color calibration and profile test chart that had some marks on them from the spectrophotometer.  It was time for a normal print.
- To be conservative I printed out a 24” by 7” panoramic print.  I used the highest quality settings along with GE for whole print.  I printed from Qimage.
- Observing the print I did not notice any marks or issues with the print quality.  I am comparing the print to the same print off my Epson 4800 with ImagePrint v6.  Gloss differential and bronzing where much better on the Z3100 print and also seemed to have more detail in shadows.  The colors matched my calibrated monitor (6500K) so the calibration process appeared to work well.
- I then moved up to a 24” by 20” print to see how it handled larger prints.  I used the same settings as the initial print.  Once again the print came out flawless and looked very good.
- I then decided to move up to a full 24” by 36” print.  I used the same settings as the first two prints.
- About half way through the print the printer paused for about 5 minutes.  After the pause the printer decided to terminate the print and cut the roll paper.  I ended up with half the print.
- Up until now I had been running the default factory firmware 4.0.0.4.  After this first road bump I decided to do the firmware upgrade to see if that would fix this issue.

Firmware Update:
- Using the support tab from within the HP Easy Printer Care center I choose the Firmware upgrade icon.
- They provide a link to the HP website with the latest version of firmware.  They also show you what current version you are running.
- I selected the latest firmware to download (4.0.0.6) and saved the file to my computer.  It is worth noting that for the Windows download you have to add the extension .exe to the end of the file name in order to extract/unzip the file.  Once you have added the extension then all you have to do is unzip the file to a location you will remember.
- Back to the firmware upgrade page, it asked you to point to the file on your computer.  You browse to the proper location and click on the update button.  The file gets uploaded to the printer and once it verifies the file is valid it performs and upgrade.  The process takes about 20 minutes (this file is around 350MB).
- Once the firmware update was completed I decided to run another head alignment, color calibration and ICC profile test on the HP Premium Instant Dry Gloss Photo Paper provide with printer.  As noted in initial calibration prints, I observed the same spectrophotometer marks on the prints.

Second Prints:
- With the new firmware in place and freshly calibrated paper I decided to be agressive and print out the same 24” by 36” print that failed with the older firmware.
- This time the print came off flawless.  No pauses and no marks noted.  Again I printed with GE for whole page.
- I printed out 2 more 24” by 36” prints to ensure consistency and they printed without issue.  That was the end of the provided roll paper that came with the printer.

Other Papers:
- Now that I was confident with the print quality and consistency with the provided paper I decided to test some other papers
- For all papers tested I performed the same color calibration and ICC profile test chart steps.
- For non-HP papers I had to perform “Add Custom Paper” from the HP Color Center software.  This is very straight forward and walks you through the steps.  Depending on the paper category you choose you can choose to create the profile with or without GE.

- Red River UltraPro Gloss (17” roll; 260gsm)
     - Calibrated and created profiles with and without GE
     - Prints looked very good and the Red River paper is whiter and smoother than the HP gloss.
     - The Red River paper showed some very minimal signs of gloss differential versus the HP Premium gloss but you really have to struggle to find it in the highlights.
     - No roll marks or defects noted on prints.

- Ilford Galerie Smooth Pearl Paper (17” roll; 280gsm)
     - Calibrated and created profiles with and without GE
     - Prints look good and this paper if pretty glossy for a satin paper
     - Fairly deep texture on this paper compared to some other satins but colors looked good
     - Even with GE on this paper there seemed to be some slight bronzing but others that saw the prints did not point it out.
     - No roll marks or defects noted on prints

- Museo Silver Rag (17” roll; 300gsm)
     - Calibrated and created profiles with and without GE
     - This paper by far is the stiffest I tried yet and I figured if I was going to see any head strikes I would have seen them with this paper
     - I printed some B&W on this paper and they looked great.  Deep blacks and neutral tones.
     - Very smooth surface and not overly glossy.  GE creates more gloss obviously.
     - I did not observe any marks or head strikes and this paper looks great

- Innova F-Type Gloss (17” roll; 300gsm)
     - Calibrated and created profiles with and without GE
     - I did not get past the color calibration test charts with this paper.  I immediately noticed poor quality on the test chart.
     - It is hard to explain but I noticed some flat colors that progressively got worse across the paper.  It was almost like the paper was absorbing too much of the ink and causing variations in consistency.  It may also be interacting somehow with the coating on the paper.
     - In any case I decided not to waste anymore of this paper.  Reading the forums it looks like others are having similar issues with this paper.
     - It is possible that there is a custom paper configuration to fix this issue but I will need to investigate further.

- HP Professional Satin Photo Paper (24” roll; 300gsm)
     - Calibrated and created profiles with and without GE
     - This is really nice paper.  It is a very smooth satin with minimal porosity and almost looks like Epson Semi-Matte.
     - Great colors and gamut.  No gloss differential or bronzing noted.
     - You can almost get away with printing without GE with this paper

- HP Professional Matte Canvas (24” roll; 430gsm)
     - Calibrated and created profiles
     - It is worth noting that the cutter does not cut canvas and you have to do it manually.  I manually fed enough slack to use my rototrim to make a straight cut.
     - This is very thick media but is flexible so it lays very flat while printing.
     - I did notice that 2 of the polygon patches on the color calibrate pattern (1 green and 1 orange) showed more texture than the others and stood out as odd.  It was almost like not enough ink was laid down and it did not cover the texture.  This may be normal for the calibration to determine different amount of inks laid on the paper.
     - The ICC Profile chart looked good and I did not see the same phenomenon as I did on the color profile chart.
     - I have not dealt with a lot of canvas media but I did notice that some of the ink flaked off the print when I ran it through my rototrim.  Some of this may have been caused by the spectrophotometer as well.   I will need to be more careful with handling the canvas post print and maybe even have to spray them before displaying.
     - The colors however are very vivid and the media is very nice on normal prints.
     - No head strike marks on print

Epson 4800 Comparison Comments:
- Overall I am very happy with the printer.  It still does not match high gloss like a dye printer but looks much improved over the Epson 4800 with respects to Bronzing and Gloss Differential
- Obvious benefit to not having to switch Photo and Matte blacks
- Roll marks have not been an issue with the Z3100.  By this I mean if you leave a roll of paper in the printer for extended periods of time you do not get indentations on the paper like the Epson 4800.
- Much quieter than the 4800 mostly due to the lack of vacuum.
- I usually only print at the highest quality so the speed is slightly better than the Epson 4800.
- LCD menu very nice and intuitive.  Epson 4800 only has a one line LCD that is difficult to navigate.
- Using the 4800 with ImagePrint produces print quality on par with the Z3100 but I think the additional inks give better gamut and tones (qualitative not quantitative).

Gloss Enhancer Comments:
- In general the GE does its job to add gloss and minimize GE and Bronzing
- On bright papers the GE seems to decrease the brightness ever so slightly.
- If your prints are going under glass then you may not need to use the GE at all but that is a personal preference for you do decide.
- When using GE on whole page you go through the GE ink quicker than the other inks.  While most of the other inks where at 75%, the GE was down to 50%.  Of course I had been using whole page GE on all my prints accept the Canvas.

Other Comments:
- For 3” cores you need to add the adapters to the spindle.  I have noticed that it is pretty difficult to get the roll paper off the 3” adapters as they are pretty snug.
- I have invested in cotton gloves to avoid getting body oils on the media.
- The window on top of the printer scratches very easily so do not get in the habit of laying you prints on top of your printer and dragging them across the window (unless you don’t mind the scratches).
- I have not noticed any scratches due to the catch basket.  I typically try to catch the prints before they fall into basket.
- I have left the printer on continuously as recommended and it will occasionally do a self check but not very often.
- Even with the sturdy stand the printer tends to shake when printing.  Not a big deal but something inside the printer rattles when the printer shakes while printing.
- I have not tried any Hahnemuhle paper yet but may pick up a roll next week as I know folks are saying they have head drag issues with that paper.

That is it for now.
Title: HP Z3100
Post by: BernardLanguillier on January 29, 2007, 10:35:51 pm
Thanks a lot for this very detailed report. Very interesting stuff.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: HP Z3100
Post by: ternst on January 29, 2007, 11:05:12 pm
mjgakatr:

Thanks for your notes. WHERE did you get any of the HP Pro Satin paper? I've been trying to find some for a month and HP says it will be another month or two or three before they will have any to sell to the public. Did you purchase this paper or did HP give it to you? I would really love to be able to use this paper. Thanks for any info...

Tim Ernst in Arkansas
http://www.Cloudland.net (http://www.Cloudland.net)
Title: HP Z3100
Post by: Thomas Krüger on January 30, 2007, 04:13:35 am
Thanks a lot for your report.

Somebody in a german forum http://forum.fineartprinter.de (http://forum.fineartprinter.de) mentioned, that you can't continue the once started print if one cartridge runs out of ink and you have to change it during the printing process (Z2100).  This is instead no issue with his old HP 9600 printer.
Title: HP Z3100
Post by: Christopher on January 30, 2007, 05:03:13 am
Quote
Thanks a lot for your report.

Somebody in a german forum http://forum.fineartprinter.de (http://forum.fineartprinter.de) mentioned, that you can't continue the once started print if one cartridge runs out of ink and you have to change it during the printing process (Z2100).  This is instead no issue with his old HP 9600 printer.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=98260\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Now I think they talk about the Z2100, Ok they are quite similiar. I never tested it. But if it is so HO should be able to change it in the firmware.

I have pretty much the same result. Innova F-Type Semi-Matt is a lot better, but I don't have anything larger than A4, so I can't say something about it with 24 or 36in.
Title: HP Z3100
Post by: mjgakatr on January 30, 2007, 10:28:35 am
Quote
mjgakatr:

Thanks for your notes. WHERE did you get any of the HP Pro Satin paper? I've been trying to find some for a month and HP says it will be another month or two or three before they will have any to sell to the public. Did you purchase this paper or did HP give it to you? I would really love to be able to use this paper. Thanks for any info...

Tim Ernst in Arkansas
http://www.Cloudland.net (http://www.Cloudland.net)
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=98234\")

I purchased the HP Pro Satin at OfficeWorld.  Attached is the link.  I guess I was lucky to stumble upon the website will searching for the sku number.  I just purchased another roll yesterday so they should still have some in stock.

[a href=\"http://www.officeworld.com/-/q8759a]http://www.officeworld.com/-/q8759a[/url]
Title: HP Z3100
Post by: mjgakatr on January 30, 2007, 10:32:27 am
Another observation:

I left my HP Pro Canvas Matte roll paper loaded overnight and when I form feed it I noticed some roll marks on the paper.  I just figured I would mention this since in my initial comments I noted that I did not see any roll marks caused by the printer.

The obvious solution is to just unload the paper when not in use.
Title: HP Z3100
Post by: ternst on January 30, 2007, 09:56:38 pm
Hey, THANKS for the link - I wonder how come they have the paper when HP has NEVER had it available for sale to the public? I hope they still have a roll or two for my order...
Title: HP Z3100
Post by: PetterStahre on January 31, 2007, 04:43:14 am
Just wanted to thank the original poster - what a superb posting! Since I'm considering buying this printer this is very informative. Thank you for your time and effort. // Petter
Title: HP Z3100
Post by: mjgakatr on January 31, 2007, 07:44:18 am
Glad to hear some folks are finding this info useful.  Thanks for the kind words.

More Updates:

- I tested a few more papers.

- Epson Enhanced Matte (192gsm)
     - Color calibrated using Matte setting (no GE option for Matte)
     - Colors look great on this paper and is a nice look if you are not into glossy paper
     - Nice smooth surface on this paper with pretty much zero reflection
     - Used all quality settings maxed out and did not notice any issue with marks or defects.

- Pictorico High Gloss White Film (213gsm)
     - Color calibrated using Glossy setting with and without GE
     - This paper/film is the best I have seen if you like ultra glossy prints
     - Great colors and great glossy look.
     - I did not some bronzing without the GE on with this paper as well as some Gloss Differential
     - With GE on whole page this paper looks great.  I tried using it on my Epson 4800 in the past and GD was always a problem for me.  Not the case with the Z3100 with GE on.
     - If this stuff was not so expensive I would use it for all my glossy prints.  This paper is great if not putting behind glass.  If you plan on putting behind glass then you can probably get by with some cheaper paper.

- Epson Premium SemiMatte Photo Paper (250gsm)
     - Color calibrated using Matte setting as well as SemiGloss/Satin with and without GE.
     - Worth noting that when you choose a paper type of Matte that the color calibration chart prints with Matte Black.   Matte Black is not printed with glossy paper type is choosen.  Makes sense and just an observation.
     - If you have used this paper you know that it is more like a SemiGloss.
     - This was my standard on the Epson 4800 since it hid GD and Bronzing very well with the ultrachrome inks and has a decent thickness to it.
     - The SemiGloss setting looked the best and you dont really need the GE on for this paper.  Similar to the Epson 4800, this paper hides GD and bronzing very well on the Z3100.
     - This paper is also very similar to the HP Professional Satin but is much cheaper.  

First Head Cleaning:
- I experienced my first horizontal banding due to a print head.  I noticed the horizontal pattern in the Magenta ink while printing out color calibration charts.
- I have used a whole slew of papers from thick to thin and glossy to canvas so it is possible something got on the print head.
- Since I noticed the horizontal pattern I opted to try the image diagnostic print to troubleshoot the problem (keep in mind I already knew it was the Magenta print head based on the calibration charts but wanted to try the diagnostic feature).
- The diagnostic print does a very good job of assiting you with print head issues.  The test patterns are intuitive and easy to read.
- The diagnostic print concluded that the Magenta and Yellow printhead was the culprit and showed banding on the print.  Note that each print head has 2 colors associated with it so even though I only had issues with the Magenta, Yellow is paired with this printhead.
- I then wanted to clean the printhead so I navigated the LCD panel to select a cleaning.  At this point you have some options, you can clean all printheads or you can specify which printheads you want to clean.
- The most granular you can get is cleaning 2 printheads at a time.  Here are the options:
- Clean All
- Clean E-G and B-GN
- Clean M-Y and MK-R
- Clean LM-LC and PK-LG
- I choose the M-Y and MK-R option since it was M that was giving me problems.
- I also noted ink levels for the 4 colors to monitor how much ink was consumed during a printhead cleaning
- The process takes about 10 minutes and does not require paper.
- Upon completion I noted the ink levels and M used 3ml while Y, MK and R only used 1ml of ink.  Since it was M that was giving me issues I am thinking the printer figured this out during the test and thus did some more cleaning/purging on that head.
- Upon completion I printed out another color calibration chart and found that there was still some slight banding in the M pattern.  I decided to do another cleaning before physically removing head and cleaning with swab.
- This second round of cleaning only consumed 1ml per color.
- This time the cleaning worked and my next few prints showed no banding or signs of printhead issues.
- As mentioned in original post, I keep the printed on continuously so this printhead cleaning was probably the effect of use and multiple papers versus the printer being turned on and off.

Manual Paper Feed:
- I also tested the manual paper feed option to see how easy this is to use.
- The first couple of sheets (8x10) I tried to feed I aligned to far to the right past the marker.  If you go too far right then the printer feeds the paper out the front so you can align it with blue line markers and then feeds it back in.  During this process you need to pull the large blue roll release lever on the left while adjusting the paper and then pulling the lever back down signals the printer to take the sheet back in.
- It is worth noting that there are labels and lines marking paper sizes on the manual feed tray but there is no separate guide like on most smaller printers to align the paper.
- It seems that the manual feed is more forgiving if you feed the paper slightly to the left of the mark as the printer is able to slide it over internally to the proper position as long as it is not skewed.
- After a few tries I go the hang of it and now I rarely have to readjust the position of the sheet.  The key I think is to feed it just left of the marker on the tray and when you feed it into the printer making sure it is not skewed.
- All in all a pretty smooth process that just takes some getting used to.

Ink Usage:
- I am still using the 69ml cartridges that came with the printer.  I realize that ink usage depends on the types of prints and paper you use so treat some of this with a grain of salt.
- GE has taken the biggest hit and I may have to order some more soon
- Gray is the second in line to get replaced
- All other colors are about 20% behind the GE and Gray

Some numbers from the HP accounting log.  I will only show one paper for example purposes as each media will probably have different averages.
HP Premium Instant Dry Photo Gloss

     - Paper Usage - 1.16 ft2     Ink Used - 2.24 ml
     - Paper Usage - 3.26 ft2     Ink Used - 5.93 ml
     - Paper Usage - 3.26 ft2     Ink Used - 4.46 ml
     - Paper Usage - 5.99 ft2     Ink Used - 9.31 ml
     - Paper Usage - 5.99 ft2     Ink Used - 11.93 ml

Average ink usage - 1.72 ml per ft2
Lowest ink usage - 1.36 ml per ft2
Highest ink usage - 1.99 ml per ft2

- You can see that even the same print sizes have variable ranges based on print content.  If I really want to home in on usage I would choose a standard picture and print as different sizes and on different media to keep most variables the same.
- The HP accounting log allows you to export the info to Excel.  Although this function works nicely, they have the units of measure in the same cell as the values thus requiring you to run a macro or manually separate the value and unit of measure into separate cells.  There may be a way around this but I did not give it much thought at this point.

Thats it for today.
Title: HP Z3100
Post by: rdonson on January 31, 2007, 08:08:25 am
Thank you so much for these reports.  They are very helpful.  I'm hoping to buy the 24" Z3100 in the next two months.
Title: HP Z3100
Post by: mjgakatr on January 31, 2007, 10:27:59 am
Notes for my ink usage numbers above:

Paper - HP Premium Instant Dry Gloss Photo Paper
Settings
- Quality Best
- Maximum Detail
- More Passes
- GE on Whole Page

The numbers will obviously be higher if using GE.  Below is a quick example of GE on versus GE off for the same print.

GE On Whole Page
Print Usage 1.13 ft2     Ink Usage 2.06 ml

GE off
Print Usage 1.13 ft2     Ink Usage 1.62 ml

This simple quick and dirty test shows a significant increase which would account for my rapid use of GE ink.  Keep in mind this is only one test sample and statistically unsound but it gives you an idea of impact.
Title: HP Z3100
Post by: alesniak on January 31, 2007, 06:02:00 pm
I just want to concur with what  mjgakatr posted as his experience, I too have just recieved a new Z3100 this past weekend. And my setup/use has been almost identical.

my one observation to add is if your loading single sheets, when I used the very right
alignment mark almost always the paper would fail to load properly, but if you just
use the left mark as a guide, "11x17" ect... I have had 100% success in loading on the
first try.
Title: HP Z3100
Post by: mjgakatr on January 31, 2007, 07:27:34 pm
A few comments about borderless printing:

- The Z3100 does not handle borderless printing on Matte paper.  It will only do borderless on Glossy or Semi-Glossy papers.  I have confirmed this.
- When you print borderless the cutter will cut about 1/8th of an inch into the inked area to ensure borderless (automatic mode) and then it advances the paper 3 inches and makes another cut.  3 inches of wasted paper for borderless prints seems a bit wasteful and HP has confirmed that this is a firmware item and I cannot make any setting adjustments to minimize this second cut.  Hopefully they will incorporate a smaller cut in an updated firmware version.
Title: HP Z3100
Post by: mjgakatr on February 03, 2007, 03:02:55 pm
Below is the link to the HP Extreme Upgrade promotion that just started on Feb 1st.  If you have not bought this printer yet now would be the time to do it if you qualify.  I am a little upset I missed out on this offer as I could of saved $1,300.

http://www.hp.com/united-states/tradein/pr...eme/home_f.html (http://www.hp.com/united-states/tradein/promo/extreme/home_f.html)

Another paper:

HP Hahnemühle Smooth Fine Art Paper (265gsm)

- Calibrated color and created ICC profiles
- This paper is not overly bright and adds some warmth to your prints
- Even though they say smooth, this paper has some texture to it
- Prints up to 24 x 36 did not show any head strikes or marks
- Very nice blacks with this paper
- Nice results with this printer.  Only downside is price but you get what you pay for
Title: HP Z3100
Post by: tbonanno on February 03, 2007, 03:15:52 pm
mjgakatr,

Great  information. Thanks for sharing it.  I'm considering a 24" printer soon.  The HP does intrigue me, especially the Z3100.  Was curious though, if I need to print 20 11x17 of the same image on cut sheets, is there any way of handling that other than feeding the paper one sheet at a time ??

Thanks!

Tony Bonanno
Title: HP Z3100
Post by: mjgakatr on February 03, 2007, 05:49:33 pm
Tony-

There is no tray feed on the printer and the only option is 1 sheet at a time.

In my workflow if I wanted to print 20 11 x 17 of the same image I would use roll paper and with Qimage layout 20 of the prints and let it run.  I have a rototrim that I use to cut them once done printing.  The benefit is cheaper cost for roll paper and a downside would be having to trim them once they are done printing.

Hope that helps.
Title: HP Z3100
Post by: rdonson on February 03, 2007, 11:05:32 pm
Roll paper and Qimage makes a lot of sense.  I'm curious though how you remove the curl.
Title: HP Z3100
Post by: tbonanno on February 04, 2007, 12:40:00 am
Quote
Tony-

There is no tray feed on the printer and the only option is 1 sheet at a time.

In my workflow if I wanted to print 20 11 x 17 of the same image I would use roll paper and with Qimage layout 20 of the prints and let it run.  I have a rototrim that I use to cut them once done printing.  The benefit is cheaper cost for roll paper and a downside would be having to trim them once they are done printing.

Hope that helps.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=99068\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Thanks for clarifying the "sheet feed" question mjgakatr..
Title: HP Z3100
Post by: mjgakatr on February 04, 2007, 07:54:45 am
rdonson-

To handle paper curl I usually save the 3" cores from my rolls.  I typically let my prints sit for at least 24 hours and then I reverse roll the prints on the 3" core to get the curl out.  If the curl is really bad I will put a rubber band around the print while it is on the core and let it sit for a period of time.
Title: HP Z3100
Post by: kers on February 04, 2007, 10:02:40 am
Hello mjgakatr and all other readers to this z3100 forum,

I am working out a page on my website that will be dedicated to the z3100.
It will contain data off all papers used . ( ICC profiles and personal comments)

So Please send your data and Icc Profiles tot this email:   z3100@beeld.nu
The page will be online in about a week and the adress will be

 www.beeld.nu/z3100

In this way it will be easier to choose a paper and compare the icc profiles.


regards,

Pieter kers
Title: HP Z3100
Post by: DSaffir on February 04, 2007, 10:07:36 pm
All - I've written a new review article of the Z3100 which has been published by Rangefinder magazine. Please use the following link:

http://www.bigfolio3.com/print-archives/19...designjet-z3100 (http://www.bigfolio3.com/print-archives/19/hp-makes-it-fresh-the-designjet-z3100)

David Saffir
Title: HP Z3100
Post by: Colorwave on February 05, 2007, 12:59:11 am
Thanks for the review, David.  Have you, or anybody else on this thread tried this printer with a third party RIP yet?  Asside from additional page output options, think it is necessary for getting quality fine art prints out of this machine?

Thanks,
Ron
Title: HP Z3100
Post by: DSaffir on February 05, 2007, 01:13:26 am
i'm expecting a new version of imageprint for the z3100 soon.

given the built-in color profiling, the z3100 does a darned good job from the printer driver. we shall see what happens when i get the rip....

David
Title: HP Z3100
Post by: ricgal on February 05, 2007, 03:46:27 am
I have ordered the GP upgrade to get higher quality profiles from the built in spectro-  wondering if i would have been better spending the exta money on a full set of carts-  I shall relate when it turns up.
Very useful review-   thanks-  particuarly paper experiences
I am having trouble with HP Universal ID gloss
surface is really glossy with GE but I am getting the odd head strike-  i think it is too light weight and is cockling slightly-  I am trying on thick paper setting to see what happens

the HP pro stin is a fantastic paper-  really high gamut and great feel-  matches the ID Premium Gloss gamut exactly when viewed in Gamutworks
Title: HP Z3100
Post by: chris anderson on February 05, 2007, 12:17:21 pm
Mr Saffir,

Have you had any problems with head strikes?
                  Chris
Title: HP Z3100
Post by: DSaffir on February 05, 2007, 01:39:02 pm
only when i fall down

seriously, none at all w/ this printer.

David
Title: HP Z3100
Post by: chris anderson on February 05, 2007, 01:40:31 pm
Mr. Saffir,
   How do yu feel it compares to the epson and canon as far as print quality only??
 THANKS!!
 Chris
Title: HP Z3100
Post by: Christopher on February 05, 2007, 03:38:59 pm
Quote
Mr. Saffir,
   How do yu feel it compares to the epson and canon as far as print quality only??
 THANKS!!
 Chris
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=99317\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Now you didn't ask me :-P, but I nevertheless I will comment on it.

I can only compar it to the Eposn R2400 ( Because to the Epson 4000 wouldn't be fair), I think it produces better results. In some area more gamut in other a little less. Details are excellent and on the 1200dpi it is better than the output of my R2400.

Now One great thing is the GE. Glossy prints really make a diffrence ! This said I also prefer the prints on the HM Photo Rag from the Z3100.

Christopher
Title: HP Z3100
Post by: chris anderson on February 05, 2007, 03:45:14 pm
Quote
Now you didn't ask me :-P, but I nevertheless I will comment on it.

I can only compar it to the Eposn R2400 ( Because to the Epson 4000 wouldn't be fair), I think it produces better results. In some area more gamut in other a little less. Details are excellent and on the 1200dpi it is better than the output of my R2400.

Now One great thing is the GE. Glossy prints really make a diffrence ! This said I also prefer the prints on the HM Photo Rag from the Z3100.

Christopher
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=99327\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


sorry! I am asking you now!!
Title: HP Z3100
Post by: tbonanno on February 05, 2007, 07:51:51 pm
Quote
sorry! I am asking you now!!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=99330\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi Chris, you didn't ask me either, but...

I have the iPF5000, an Epson 3800 in studio and use to have 4000's.  I have also looked at the Z3100 closely hands on and examined a number of prints from the Z2100 and Z3100.

I would strongly suggest you take a look for yourself at a dealer or show where you can seriously examine all three manufacturer's output.

If you print WITHOUT the gloss enhancer, I think you will find the output VERY similar.  The HP has some bronzing and gloss differential just as the Epson and Canon does on luster/glossy papers.  The GE with the Z3100 makes those issues moot of course.  

AS far as other quality parameters, features, and functions, they all have their strengths and weaknesses.. For example, the HP would never work for me as I need to print "quantity" cut sheet and I'm not about to feed the paper one sheet at a time at the back of the Z series.  And I certainly don't have time as a working photog to gang them all on roll paper and cut them out with a paper cutter.. Geesh !  I really need the cassette on the iPF5000.  The Epson 3800 won't work for my large panoramas because it can't take roll paper.  On the other hand, the 3800 is my ideal "small cut sheet" printer as it will take cut sheets down to 4x6, something that NONE of the other 17" printers will do (that's why I have both the iPF5000 and the 3800 in the studio).  

The HP Z series of course are larger format (24" and 44") and I was looking at the Z3100 as a ideal 24" printer, but ideally I want a 24 inch printer that would "replace" the iPF5000, but the klugy cut sheet handling on the Z series eliminated that possibility (I think).

Right now, based on the tests that I've run, I do believe the 12 color inkset (11 + GE in the HP) does make a difference assuming you have custom profiles, a wide gamut colorspace file, and suitable subject matter.  In a not very well controlled test (generic profiles rather than custom), I circulated two 13x19 color prints made from a 16 bit RAW file in ProPhotoRGB, one printed on a new Epson 3800 and one printed on the iPF5000 to 100 photographers in the audience of a program I recently presented.  Both prints were gorgeous.  I labeled them and A & B and asked the audience to make a note as to which they preferred (they didn't know which printer was used).  98 out of 100 preferred the Canon print.  I suspect this was mostly a reflection of the inkset.  I suspect the HP would be similar to the Canon in this type of comparison.


Tony Bonanno
Title: HP Z3100
Post by: dkeyes on February 05, 2007, 09:24:45 pm
Quote
Mr. Saffir,
   How do yu feel it compares to the epson and canon as far as print quality only??
 THANKS!!
 Chris
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=99317\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You didn't ask me as well but I have done some comparisons with the Epson 9800 and z3100 44".
I've printed two different images on both machines. 9800 with ergosoft rip, 9800 without the rip (ie; Photoshop to printer) and z3100 without a rip (again straight from photoshop). Images were printed on Epson premium glossy. I also printed on HP Premium Instant dry gloss on the z3100 (as well as the Epson paper).

9800 with ergosoft made the best looking prints overall. Smooth shadows, good color gamut, no gloss differential and some bronzing in the blue sky at extreme viewing angles.

9800 (no rip) was similar to above but shadow areas weren't as smooth with black being built out of only one color in places making it stand out.

z3100 (no rip) was similar to 9800 with ergosoft but had no bronzing (printed with full gloss). There is some gloss differential in the highlights (off all places). It's odd, but the highlights seem to have more gloss due to less ink on the glossy substrate. I had the same result on two different images and two different papers. Not sure if a rip would help this. For me this is a big problem that needs to be resolved, as glossy paper tends to get the best dmax.

By the way, I tried Canon Premium photo satin on the z3100 and the gloss differential is gone. This type of substrate (along with many art/rag papers) seems to be where this printer shines. I'll be testing Hahnemuhle Fine Art Pearl and Innova F-type semi-matte here soon.

Doug
Title: HP Z3100
Post by: chris anderson on February 05, 2007, 10:17:48 pm
Sorry for not asking all of you guys!! : )  I had an Epson 9800 and was using the IP rip with it. I have had great results, just always looking for more. Just trying to decide beteween the IPF8000 or the Z3100. I am not worried about speed, or single sheet feed, etc.. I usually print on luster type papers, that is why I am starting to lean towards the Z.  the print head strike, is making me a bit nervous in going with the Z. Any help or guideance you guys might be able to give would be highly appreciated! I am now printerless, and am getting the itch to get one soon.
  Chris
Title: HP Z3100
Post by: marty m on February 07, 2007, 03:29:00 am
I own the Epson 4000.  Am considering using the rebate program to get the Z3100.

Someone said it would be unfair to compare the Z3100 to the 4000.  Why?

In terms of print quality for color, how big a difference?

For black and white?

General useability and features?  (Setting aside the print size)

Thanks very much for any responses.
Title: HP Z3100
Post by: Christopher on February 07, 2007, 08:19:03 am
Quote
I own the Epson 4000.  Am considering using the rebate program to get the Z3100.

Someone said it would be unfair to compare the Z3100 to the 4000.  Why?

In terms of print quality for color, how big a difference?

For black and white?

General useability and features?  (Setting aside the print size)

Thanks very much for any responses.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=99606\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I had an 4000 before the z3100 and my R2400. Sorry but in my eyes the 4000 is old. It can't really compete anymore. Yes it was a nice printer but both are far better. Especially the HP is fantastic compared to the old 4000. ( Extreme on Glossy but also pretty much on Matt papers)

I compared prints a lot and I think in that term the 4000 is really "old"
Title: HP Z3100
Post by: marty m on February 07, 2007, 10:47:01 am
Quote
I had an 4000 before the z3100 and my R2400. Sorry but in my eyes the 4000 is old. It can't really compete anymore. Yes it was a nice printer but both are far better. Especially the HP is fantastic compared to the old 4000. ( Extreme on Glossy but also pretty much on Matt papers)

I compared prints a lot and I think in that term the 4000 is really "old"
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=99633\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Christopher -- thanks very much, especially for comment on mat papers, since I primarily print on those cotton papers in color.

How, exactly, do you think the new z3100 is superior to the 4000 in color with mat papers?  Deeper blacks?  Better tones?

Is the difference using photo papers more pronounced, that it is in color?

I apologize for the number of questions below, but any response on any of these points would be greatly appreciated:

(1)  The other thread is discussing lots of problems with the z3100.  Is the consensus that these are isolated to a few individuals, or a common issue among all users?   Would you recommend that someone buy now or wait?  And if it is to wait, how long, since the rebate expires in May

(2)  Anyone know if Canon will provide a software update that will allow us to see the print que on the hard drive, so print jobs can be easily repeated?  That is a significant failure and dumb mistake on the part of HP.  Why spool jobs to the hard drive and then not allow us to access them?

(3)  Apparently the HP GL/2 upgrade does allow the viewing of the print que.  But would it work with jpeg or tiff photo files?  What is the cost of the HP GL/2 -- I can't find it on the web site

(4)  Any opinions on the long term reliability of HP as compared with Epson?  One issue is that HP depends on the hard drive.  Hard drives fail.  But that is clearly not a user replaceable part, and you can't access it to back up the contents.  I assume the drive might run constantly, since HP recommends leaving the printer on all the time.  I wonder what an on-site repair might cost if you don't have a service contract.  (3 years of next day service is $1500)

(5)  Has anyone purchased the Advanced Profiling Solution?  Cost?  I can't find it on the web site.  Usefulness?

(6)  There has been some discussion of USB versus slow ethernet connection.  One way to speed up ethernet is the Jetdirect 625n or 635n gigabit ethernet server to plug in to the printer.  The web site says that the 625n may not be compatible, but both are listed in the manual for the printer.  The 625 has EE or EP (?) which I think is necessary for bidirectional communications, the 635 does not.  Any opinions on either of those?

(7)  There has also been some discussion about problems loading sheets.  But the Epson 4000 is not trouble free in that regard, using 17x22 mat sheets.  Is the HP better or worse in that regard?

(8)  There are two models -- the Z3100, and a model with a letter following that.  What is the difference?  I wonder who sells both.  B&H only lists the standard model.

(9)  I think someone said that if an ink cartridge runs out in the middle of a print job, you lose the print?  Is that correct?  If so, that is a signficant failure as compared with the Epson 4000.  If you try to change cartridges based on software warnings or even a front panel indicator, you will do so prematurely, at least based on the 4000.  With the 4000 you can run them to the bitter end, the printer will stop half way through a print, and then resume right where it left off when you install a new ink cartridge.  How does the Z3100 compare in that regard?

(10)  Any views on HP versus Canon, and whether it makes sense to wait for the rumored new Canon 24" printer?
Title: HP Z3100
Post by: adiallo on February 07, 2007, 12:23:54 pm
Quote
(1)  The other thread is discussing lots of problems with the z3100.  Is the consensus that these are isolated to a few individuals, or a common issue among all users?   Would you recommend that someone buy now or wait?  And if it is to wait, how long, since the rebate expires in May
I have the Z3100 44 inch model in my studio for evaluation. The main issue of this board revolves around the zebra print/head strike. I have not experienced that at all and have loaded Hahnemuhle, Innova and of course HP media. Others have had poor results after upgrading firmware. I just updated mine this morning to troubleshoot a separate issue, so we'll see if I'm affected negatively also.
People post to forums more often for help with problems, so take that into account. By no means am I dismmissing the issue users are having here. Their problems are real and need to be addressed. Until an official solution is provided that's what makes web forums so useful. But it's hard to draw conclusions about whether something is widespread based on such a small sample of users. Check out the Apple discussion boards and you'd think they make the most unreliable and disaster-prone computer in the world.
Quote
(2)  Anyone know if Canon will provide a software update that will allow us to see the print que on the hard drive, so print jobs can be easily repeated?  That is a significant failure and dumb mistake on the part of HP.  Why spool jobs to the hard drive and then not allow us to access them?
Just a guess, but pretty sure the print jobs have to be wiped periodically to save disk space. There's also profile generating software in there. So a RIP might be a better option where spooled jobs could be stored on a larger user volume.
Quote
(3)  Apparently the HP GL/2 upgrade does allow the viewing of the print que.  But would it work with jpeg or tiff photo files?  What is the cost of the HP GL/2 -- I can't find it on the web site
(4)  Any opinions on the long term reliability of HP as compared with Epson?  One issue is that HP depends on the hard drive.  Hard drives fail.  But that is clearly not a user replaceable part, and you can't access it to back up the contents.  I assume the drive might run constantly, since HP recommends leaving the printer on all the time.  I wonder what an on-site repair might cost if you don't have a service contract.  (3 years of next day service is $1500)
No one can talk about long term reliability of a printer that has been out for only 2 months. The service contracts offered by HP, I'm happy to say are cheaper than what I'm paying to Epson and you can get up to 4 additional years (plus the included 1 year) warranty AND buy a warranty even after your original 1 year deal expires.
Quote
(5)  Has anyone purchased the Advanced Profiling Solution?  Cost?  I can't find it on the web site.  Usefulness?
A few posters on this forum have it if I remember correctly. From their accounts it seems to be a work in progress. You can only make CMYK profiles with the APS if you're driving the printer with a CMYK RIP. And the better ones come with a profiling option anyway, so I'm not sure about the value of APS unless you want to initiate monitor calibration and profiling through the HP print utility. Don't have the cost handy at the moment.
Quote
(6)  There has been some discussion of USB versus slow ethernet connection.  One way to speed up ethernet is the Jetdirect 625n or 635n gigabit ethernet server to plug in to the printer.  The web site says that the 625n may not be compatible, but both are listed in the manual for the printer.  The 625 has EE or EP (?) which I think is necessary for bidirectional communications, the 635 does not.  Any opinions on either of those?
I'm running via Ethernet and spooling speeds out of PSCS2 are sometimes very slow. But the firmware update, at 300+MB moved very quickly to the printer, so maybe the 100 Ethernet speed is not the bottleneck.
Quote
(7)  There has also been some discussion about problems loading sheets.  But the Epson 4000 is not trouble free in that regard, using 17x22 mat sheets.  Is the HP better or worse in that regard?
Sheet loading is working fine here. Coming from Epson LFs it did take some getting used to but after a couple of days I'm not getting paper skew messages. It is picky though, you definitely have better luck with well cut sheets. I haven't tried any deckled edges yet but I'm guessing those would present a problem. The paper sensor initially, at least, checks for even spacing along the long side of the paper versus slant along the front-fed edge.
Quote
(8)  There are two models -- the Z3100, and a model with a letter following that.  What is the difference?  I wonder who sells both.  B&H only lists the standard model.
(9)  I think someone said that if an ink cartridge runs out in the middle of a print job, you lose the print?  Is that correct?  If so, that is a signficant failure as compared with the Epson 4000.  If you try to change cartridges based on software warnings or even a front panel indicator, you will do so prematurely, at least based on the 4000.  With the 4000 you can run them to the bitter end, the printer will stop half way through a print, and then resume right where it left off when you install a new ink cartridge.  How does the Z3100 compare in that regard?
Still on my first set of carts (as most users would be) but the manual indicates you replace an empty cart to continue printing. The printing will pause until the cart is replaced.
Quote
(10)  Any views on HP versus Canon, and whether it makes sense to wait for the rumored new Canon 24" printer?
New technology is always sexy and tempting. but if you want to go into a purchase with no doubts hanging over your head, it's always a good idea to wait for us guinea pigs to find all the problems and get them resolved. Of course by then, a new printer may be out and you'll just have to start waiting all over again   The whole bleeding edge thing...
Title: HP Z3100
Post by: mcbroomf on February 07, 2007, 01:53:29 pm
Marty,
I'm also coming from an Epson 4000, the main reason so that I can start using pearl/satin finishes with better dmax.  At the moment with the issues I've had I have not been able to make that comparison.  With HP support though it looks like the printer is now ready and I'll give an update from test prints on HM PR 308 when I'm back from a trip in a couple of weeks.

The HM FAP issue looks like it's due to very low humidity (<20%) in conjunction with the normal head setting (which is default if you make the custom profile from the Photo semiglass/satin paper type).  In a conference call with HP in Barcelona today they told me that are going to work on a custom profile for this paper, so I may try it once more while it still cold and dry, then try again when humidity is up to 40 or more.  

In the mean time I'll explore other papers starting with HP Pro Satin that has been highly recommended.  I won't be using it on the Epson though as I don't want to get a custom profile made for it.
Title: HP Z3100
Post by: marty m on February 08, 2007, 02:30:02 am
Quote
The service contracts offered by HP, I'm happy to say are cheaper than what I'm paying to Epson and you can get up to 4 additional years (plus the included 1 year) warranty AND buy a warranty even after your original 1 year deal expires.
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The HP 3y NBD Designjet Z3100 HW Supp is $1500.  

The Epson 2 yr (3 yr total) is $1100.  

Are we correct to assume that the HP 3 year starts at the end of the one year warranty for a total of 4?  They don't explicitly say.

Does anyone know whether the HP-GL/2 upgrade works with standard jpeg or tiff photo files?  Specifically, "Job queuing means that all HP-GL/2 jobs sent to the printer are added to a queue that you can view and manage" -- does that work with tiff or psd files that are printed?

GP upgrade -- what is it and the cost?

Thanks for any responses!
Title: HP Z3100
Post by: adiallo on February 08, 2007, 10:21:01 am
Quote
The HP 3y NBD Designjet Z3100 HW Supp is $1500. 

The Epson 2 yr (3 yr total) is $1100. 

Are we correct to assume that the HP 3 year starts at the end of the one year warranty for a total of 4?  They don't explicitly say.

Does anyone know whether the HP-GL/2 upgrade works with standard jpeg or tiff photo files?  Specifically, "Job queuing means that all HP-GL/2 jobs sent to the printer are added to a queue that you can view and manage" -- does that work with tiff or psd files that are printed?

GP upgrade -- what is it and the cost?
Epson warranties list additional years of coverage. HP warranties list total years of coverage. On a new printer the Epson 2yr warranty is equivalent to the HP 3yr warranty in terms of the time covered. My bad on the HP being cheaper.For a 9800 Epson list is $1300 compared to HP list of $1500 for 3 total years of coverage. I initially compared it to Epson pricing on an old warranty for a 9500 printer. Epson's prices came down when the x600 printers arrived.

Now, say you don't buy an extended warranty within your inital year of ownership. Epson will not sell you an extended warranty. HP will not sell you a 3,4,or 5 year extended warranty but will sell you 1 year warranties that start on the date you buy them. You can renew these year-to-year post-warranty contracts.

GP is the printer with the APS bundle. You have to call HP for a price.
Title: HP Z3100
Post by: marty m on February 10, 2007, 01:48:33 pm
Thanks in advance for responding to two additional questions (#1 & 2).  I have also included two additional pieces of info that might be useful for this discussion (#3 & 4)

(1)  Those of you with the 24" model -- did you get it from standard retail channels or as a result of a special arrangement with HP?  I'm wondering how soon the 24" models will ship to retailers.  I have one on backorder (I am the first backorder on the list) with a major retailer.  HP small business thinks that retail channels will begin receiving them next week, but they aren't certain.  The HP small business division (in Canada) just received their first 24" unit in the last two days.

(2)  HP pre-sales send me the following in response some questions I sent them.  Is this correct?  This is a feature that is not mentioned in the manual, and none of you have mentioned it either.  As noted below, the following answer directly contradicts statements made by Reichmann in his review -- so both can't be correct.

"Reprinting jobs.  You may reprint jobs from the queue by selecting the desired job from the print queue via the front panel. The hard drive is intended to store jobs during printing, and is cleared when power to the printer is turned off. If jobs of different types, for example, PCL3GUI and HP-GL/2, are sent to the printer, all jobs will not appear in the queue. Please send jobs in only one language at a time if you wish them to remain in the queue."

If this is correct it means that jobs that were recently sent to the hard drive can be accessed and reprinted directly from the printer.  This would be a big advantage over the Epson models.  Reichmann reported that the Canon can do this -- but he said in his review that the HP can NOT do this.  

So someone is wrong -- either HP presales or Reichmann in his review.

(Unless HP presales is referring to using the HP-GL/2 upgrade.  I asked about using that to see the print queue with tiff or jpeg files, and they recommended against doing so, so I don't know why they could be confused in that regard.  In any case, that upgrade will cost $400 so it isn't worth it just to get that feature.)

Two last tips that might help all of you --

(3)  If you order extra spindles, they do NOT include the adapters for 3" cores.  In a really stupid marketing and design decision, HP requires you to buy them separately from a different division.  (Spindles are sold by small and medium business; the 3" adapters are sold by parts.)  The problem is that the 3" adapters are not even available yet, even though you can order spindles, although a supervisor in small and medium business promised me that they will be available very soon.  

(4)  I'm an advance amateur who won't be printing every day, and my use of the 3100 would be far less than a pro who is selling prints.  I also don't need next day service for a business.  That is what the really expensive extended warranty offered by HP is aimed at -- next day service for a time critical business.  So I've been trying to determine how likely it is that I might have a problem in the first 3 or 4 years, the life of an extended plan for $1500.  I learned that a single maintenance call, when HP sends out a factory technician, would cost at least $1,500.  It is possible that a local guy trained to do HP work might cost less.  (These are estimates based on other large format printers obtained from HP tech support.)

The supervisor (in small and medium business), as well as a guy in tech support (who did not appear to be very well informed) also said that the maintenance ink tank (not a user replaceable part) typically doesn't have to changed for 3 to 5 years or longer, and that assumes heavy pro use.  (The tank on an Epson 4000 would have to be changed twice as often from my experience, so HP must dump far less ink.)  

In terms of parts that might need replacement, the next candidate would be the hard drive, and how often it would have to be replaced.  The drives do go into sleep mode even when the unit is left on.  So who knows on that issue. We have all seen drives last that long, or far less.  

The supervisor felt that I am not likely after the first year to experience more than one problem requiring service -- the cost of the plan.  And I am, in fact, not likely to require even one call in the first three years according to the supervisor.  So it depends on your point of view.  If you  assume no problems after the first year and for the next two to three years (the life of an extended plan) then it would not be worth spending $1500.  Instead spend that if one problem develops.  And since I don't require next day service, I could wait for an HP trained tech guy in my local city to check it out.  On the other hand, one problem would cost the equivalent of the maintenance plan.  

So it really comes down to the likelihood of a single problem, and the supervisor thought that was very low based on his experience, and even more so for an amateur like me who is not printing everyday like a pro.

If anyone else has actual experience with HP large format printers, your view would be welcomed.
Title: HP Z3100
Post by: Mark D Segal on February 10, 2007, 06:03:02 pm
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All - I've written a new review article of the Z3100 which has been published by Rangefinder magazine. Please use the following link:

http://www.bigfolio3.com/print-archives/19...designjet-z3100 (http://www.bigfolio3.com/print-archives/19/hp-makes-it-fresh-the-designjet-z3100)

David Saffir
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=99204\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

David, I'd like to see this article but I get repeated Error 404 messages. Is the link perhaps corrupted or changed?
Title: HP Z3100
Post by: francofit on February 10, 2007, 08:43:30 pm
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.... Is the link perhaps corrupted or changed?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=100239\")
I have found the same article here:
[a href=\"http://www.aftercapture.com/print-archives/19/hp-makes-it-fresh-the-designjet-z3100]http://www.aftercapture.com/print-archives...designjet-z3100[/url]
Title: HP Z3100
Post by: Mark D Segal on February 10, 2007, 09:25:32 pm
Many thanks it worked - good article. A bit perplexing are the overall very positive reviews from Michael Reichmann, David Saffir and others (and I've seen it in operation and was impressed) contrasted with the problem reports that have been surfacing in these forums.
Title: HP Z3100
Post by: John_Black on February 11, 2007, 03:31:26 am
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Many thanks it worked - good article. A bit perplexing are the overall very positive reviews from Michael Reichmann, David Saffir and others (and I've seen it in operation and was impressed) contrasted with the problem reports that have been surfacing in these forums.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100258\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I think David's review is from an operational viewpoint.  He wrote more about the time and ink savings than he did gamut, quality, etc.  He also spent two pages on the delivery and set-up.  He strikes me as a "operations guy".
Title: HP Z3100
Post by: Mark D Segal on February 11, 2007, 08:40:18 am
What I meant by the article being good is that this well-known professional photographer reported an uneventful sequence of set-up, installation and use, and was pleased with the results based on the papers he tested. When this comes from some-one who knows print quality and has much prior experience using other professional printers, it has value regardless of the fact that it is not a very detailed analysis of all the aspects that combine to define and deliver "quality". If this kind of article came from an HP salesman I'd be less impressed.
Title: HP Z3100
Post by: u1022186 on February 12, 2007, 06:08:19 pm
I see that you are printing to 17 inch rolls. According to HP, the smallest width roll you can use with this printer is 18 inch. Is it Qimage that is allowing you to do this or is their a work around that you figured out.

Thanks,
Bob Simon
Title: HP Z3100
Post by: Christopher on February 12, 2007, 06:15:17 pm
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I see that you are printing to 17 inch rolls. According to HP, the smallest width roll you can use with this printer is 18 inch. Is it Qimage that is allowing you to do this or is their a work around that you figured out.

Thanks,
Bob Simon
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100557\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'm also printing on 13" and 8" rolls. The statement from HP is not correct. You can use ANY roll from A4/letter up. I use the normal HP drivber to print.
Title: HP Z3100
Post by: Mark D Segal on February 13, 2007, 05:47:52 pm
Has anyone noticed that HP has a Z310  promotion for US customers ONLY that takes up to 1300 dollars off the printer and inks as long as you have a serial number for another wide-format printer? One wonders why this promo is not being made available in Canada. Is this an HP USA decision or an HP Canada decision and why?