Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: Nick_T on January 24, 2007, 01:33:40 pm
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Hasselblad have released the H3D 31 (Same chip as the P30)
Press release here:
http://www.adcomms.co.uk/cpressr2.aspx?prid=6923 (http://www.adcomms.co.uk/cpressr2.aspx?prid=6923)
Nick-T
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$25,000 seems awfully high, in light of the competing products from Leaf and Phase....(yes, I realize that you get a camera along with the back with the H3D, but still)
Hasselblad have released the H3D 31 (Same chip as the P30)
Press release here:
http://www.adcomms.co.uk/cpressr2.aspx?prid=6923 (http://www.adcomms.co.uk/cpressr2.aspx?prid=6923)
Nick-T
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=97334\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Hi
The cature rate with the 31 is 1.2 f/s and this is the smaller chip. The new Aptus series backs will be .8 .9 and 1.1 f/sec ( 22mp, 28mp and 33mp). Like in TOP GUN " I feel the need fo speed"
LOL Denis
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$25,000 seems awfully high, in light of the competing products from Leaf and Phase....(yes, I realize that you get a camera along with the back with the H3D, but still)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=97341\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Regarding the competing products from Leaf and Phase:
MSRP prices:
Phase One P30 & H2 kit: $25K
Leaf Aptus 65 & H2 Kit: $26K
Hasselblad H3D-31: $25K
I don't see any issue with the price.
Steve Hendrix
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I don't see any issue with the price.
Steve Hendrix
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=97371\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
other then that the prices listed are retail h2 prices (8000? for a body+80mm)....and it would be a chance for them to undercut other prices....
besides: hass is again one step behind...this H3/31 is announced, i doubt it will ship before the p30+ which is the "next generation" of this back.....
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other then that the prices listed are retail h2 prices (8000? for a body+80mm)....and it would be a chance for them to undercut other prices....
besides: hass is again one step behind...this H3/31 is announced, i doubt it will ship before the p30+ which is the "next generation" of this back.....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=97377\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Not following you there, Paul. All the prices are retail. P30's for instance are frequently sold well below $17K by dealers, and H3D-31's can also be sold below the $25K retail.
And sorry, but you're wrong on being behind. The H3D-31 is shipping NOW. Um, when is the P30+ shipping? It's nice to have a product announcement when you can actually see and feel the product the day it's announced instead of waiting 6 months or longer.
The H3D-31 already shoots faster than the P30+ (1.2 seconds per frame vs 1.25 seconds per frame), so I would say it's a step ahead, rather than behind.
Steve Hendrix
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What about if Hasselblad come with another h4, 6 months from now, and more lents just for the h4,not for h3. them you get stock, again, with h3 lens, Like I'm stock with my h1? with phase one, you wait 6 month but you get it right.
BlasR
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What about if Hasselblad come with another h4, 6 months from now, and more lents just for the h4,not for h3. them you get stock, again, with h3 lens, Like I'm stock with my h1? with phase one, you wait 6 month but you get it right.
BlasR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=97393\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
BlasR:
Your H1 lenses will work just fine with the H3D-31.
Steve Hendrix
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Steve,
But not the lens for the h3 will work for my h1.
So I need to change to h3 ?
BlasR
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Steve,
But not the lens for the h3 will work for my h1.
So I need to change to h3 ?
BlasR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=97395\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Lenses made specifically for the H3D (designated HCD lenses) will only work with H3D-39, H3D-31 or H3D-22. If you have an H1, and upgrade to an H3D, all the HC lenses you currently own will work with the H3D, as well as future HCD lenses.
Steve Hendrix
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Not following you there, Paul. All the prices are retail. P30's for instance are frequently sold well below $17K by dealers, and H3D-31's can also be sold below the $25K retail.
And sorry, but you're wrong on being behind. The H3D-31 is shipping NOW. Um, when is the P30+ shipping? It's nice to have a product announcement when you can actually see and feel the product the day it's announced instead of waiting 6 months or longer.
The H3D-31 already shoots faster than the P30+ (1.2 seconds per frame vs 1.25 seconds per frame), so I would say it's a step ahead, rather than behind.
Steve Hendrix
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=97386\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Steve,
C'mon now. Awfully snappy aren't you?
Lets talk apples to apples here.
From what I am hearing the H3D only ships with the Back and a H2/H3 Body.
H2 body = $3,120
This makes the H3D-31 back list for approx. $21,875
New P30 = $16,990 list
Price difference at list = $4,885
Steve, this is a huge difference. And from what I can tell all the specs are pretty much identical. I can't believe that you are snapping at paul about 5/100ths of a second capture rate. I can't remember the last time a photographer said "you know, i really wish that this back shot 5/100ths faster. That would really help my shooting style."
OK, good for hasse for shipping when the product is announced. I will give them credit for that. But wouldn't you, as a reseller, have appreciated this announcement at the end of the tax year of 2006 rather than 3rd week of January?
We have been shipping P30's for 14 months now. That is an eternity in the digital age. I would have to lean towards agreeing with Paul thinking that Hasse is just one step behind Phase One again. Couple that with the fact that the +'s will be shipping in just 6 weeks, and Hasse is playing catch up in my opinion.
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Steve,
If I need to upgrade to h3 can I used my Phase One p25= p25+, (I just pay today for the upgrade).
Or I just need to used Hasselblad digital Back?
I think i'm stock with h1/h2, because i'm very happy with my p25.
Oh well, I will keep using canon, for more choise of lenses
BlasR
Lenses made specifically for the H3D (designated HCD lenses) will only work with H3D-39, H3D-31 or H3D-22. If you have an H1, and upgrade to an H3D, all the HC lenses you currently own will work with the H3D, as well as future HCD lenses.
Steve Hendrix
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=97398\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Steve,
C'mon now. Awfully snappy aren't you?
Lets talk apples to apples here.
From what I am hearing the H3D only ships with the Back and a H2/H3 Body.
H2 body = $3,120
This makes the H3D-31 back list for approx. $21,875
New P30 = $16,990 list
Price difference at list = $4,885
Steve, this is a huge difference. And from what I can tell all the specs are pretty much identical. I can't believe that you are snapping at paul about 5/100ths of a second capture rate. I can't remember the last time a photographer said "you know, i really wish that this back shot 5/100ths faster. That would really help my shooting style."
OK, good for hasse for shipping when the product is announced. I will give them credit for that. But wouldn't you, as a reseller, have appreciated this announcement at the end of the tax year of 2006 rather than 3rd week of January?
We have been shipping P30's for 14 months now. That is an eternity in the digital age. I would have to lean towards agreeing with Paul thinking that Hasse is just one step behind Phase One again. Couple that with the fact that the +'s will be shipping in just 6 weeks, and Hasse is playing catch up in my opinion.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=97402\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Well, Dave, it's a public forum, and everyone's entitled to their opinion, you as well as Paul. As for snappy, well you may call it snappy. It's spirited, I'll give you that. I see nothing inappropriate about the tone of my response, Paul and I know each other, and if he feels I'm "snappy", I'm sure he'll point it out to me.
My point was not that .05 seconds faster is a bragging statistic, just illustrating the point that the H3D-31 is certainly not behind the P30, Plus or no.
I have no confirmation of the H3D shipping "body only". I'm pretty sure it will need some sort of viewfinder? I expect the H3D-31 to ship with the body, viewfinder and the stock 80mm. Perhaps the rumors of "body only" refer to potential optional skus where they un-bundle the 80mm. But if that turns out to be the case, then I would expect lower prices for those options. That will have to wait until more information is available. If for some reason the H3D-31 is body only and still at $25K, that would raise my eyebrow as well.
Again, I don't see the behind Phase angle at all. Right now, spec-wise, the H3D-31 is all over the P30. In 6 weeks, or whenever, with the P30+, we'll see. But my point is that even against the P30+, the H3D-31 compares quite well.
Steve Hendrix
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Steve,
Hasse announces a back 14 months after Phase One's P30 ships with almost identical specifications and you don't think they are a step behind? I don't think that you are being honest with yourself.
My estimate is that they have been losing so many sales to the P30 is that they decided to use the same chip, match the stats, add the price of a H2 kit to Phase's $16,990 price and put it out on the street.
Then on top of that ist the quote of "near full frame" and Hasse just seems to insult the public with marketing BS once again.
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Steve,
Hasse announces a back 14 months after Phase One's P30 ships with almost identical specifications and you don't think they are a step behind? I don't think that you are being honest with yourself.
My estimate is that they have been losing so many sales to the P30 is that they decided to use the same chip, match the stats, add the price of a H2 kit to Phase's $16,990 price and put it out on the street.
Then on top of that ist the quote of "near full frame" and Hasse just seems to insult the public with marketing BS once again.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=97410\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Regardless of when Phase One or Hasselblad began their Kodak sensor 31MP projects, the fact remains that in 6 weeks as you say, Phase One will begin shipping a Kodak 31MP product that will be no further ahead of Hasselblad's H3D-31. The P30+ brightens the dismal LCD screen, enhances the capture speed, expands the ISO, and adds Live Video? With the exception of the exanded ISO, the H3D-31 already matches those features and is shipping today. And it's been rumoured that Hasselblad will expand the ISO as well as the long exposure times via a free software upgrade. Add to that the no-crop viewfinder and lenses, Ultra focus, and Digital APO Corrections, and again, sorry, but I don't see that as a step behind.
But you're right on the "near full frame". More medium format marketing BS.
Steve Hendrix
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Not following you there, Paul. All the prices are retail. P30's for instance are frequently sold well below $17K by dealers, and H3D-31's can also be sold below the $25K retail.
And sorry, but you're wrong on being behind. The H3D-31 is shipping NOW. Um, when is the P30+ shipping? It's nice to have a product announcement when you can actually see and feel the product the day it's announced instead of waiting 6 months or longer.
The H3D-31 already shoots faster than the P30+ (1.2 seconds per frame vs 1.25 seconds per frame), so I would say it's a step ahead, rather than behind.
Steve Hendrix
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=97386\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Steve,
That's true, but the H3D-31 doesn't come with a software suite like C-1 and talking software, well, let's not mention leaf software at all.
Actually if your going for what is shipping and proven today, the P-30 is very good and solid and has been for a while.
The last few days I have shot thousands of frames on location, tethered and non tethered, with the P-30 without any real issues and after a job like this will not mind one bit batching out in C-1.
Also, right now the P-30 is available in almost any mount with no waiting and goes to 800 iso well.
As far as speed, the Aptus S series may be fast, but nobody has answered if they can reach this speed non compressed, which for now shooting compressed with a Leaf pretty much locks you into LC-10. Shooting hundreds to thousands of files to that software is very diffiuclt to process in any significant numbers.
I do agree that using something that is stable and available today is a wise move, rather than wait for promises from any manufacturer.
As far as numbers, I'm not pimping Contax or Phase but take the fact that a P-30 can be had for under $17,000 and a new or like new Contax kid (with lens) can be bought for $2,800, puts the P-30 and the Contax thousands of dollars under the price of the H3d-31.
JR
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Steve,
That's true, but the H3D-31 doesn't come with a software suite like C-1 and talking software, well, let's not mention leaf software at all.
Actually if your going for what is shipping and proven today, the P-30 is very good and solid and has been for a while.
The last few days I have shot thousands of frames on location, tethered and non tethered, with the P-30 without any real issues and after a job like this will not mind one bit batching out in C-1.
Also, right now the P-30 is available in almost any mount with no waiting and goes to 800 iso well.
As far as speed, the Aptus S series may be fast, but nobody has answered if they can reach this speed non compressed, which for now shooting compressed with a Leaf pretty much locks you into LC-10. Shooting hundreds to thousands of files to that software is very diffiuclt to process in any significant numbers.
I do agree that using something that is stable and available today is a wise move, rather than wait for promises from any manufacturer.
As far as numbers, I'm not pimping Contax or Phase but take the fact that a P-30 can be had for under $17,000 and a new or like new Contax kid (with lens) can be bought for $2,800, puts the P-30 and the Contax thousands of dollars under the price of the H3d-31.
JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=97422\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
James:
Yes.
Who mentioned Leaf software?
No, H3D's don't come with C1 (nor do they come with Leaf software, thank goodness) . What it doesn't come with means nothing. All that has meaning is what it does come with. And it does come with Flexcolor, which is a mature, stable and full featured software that rivals C1 in functionality. Nearly everything you've mentioned C1 does, Flexcolor also does, and does well.
You make a good point with regard to your Contax kit. For now, I'm not aware that Hasselblad has announced a CF-31, which would mount to any camera system - even multiple camera systems. So, for now if someone is opting for 31MP sensor on Contax kit, the P30 is the way to go. For 31MP on H system, well that's a different story.
Steve Hendrix
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Steve,
Is Hasselblad offering upgrade of H1 to H3D-**? and what is the cost to upgrade? U can PM me, if U want to.
Thanks.
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James:
Yes.
Who mentioned Leaf software?
No, H3D's don't come with C1 (nor do they come with Leaf software, thank goodness) . What it doesn't come with means nothing. All that has meaning is what it does come with. And it does come with Flexcolor, which is a mature, stable and full featured software that rivals C1 in functionality. Nearly everything you've mentioned C1 does, Flexcolor also does, and does well.
You make a good point with regard to your Contax kit. For now, I'm not aware that Hasselblad has announced a CF-31, which would mount to any camera system - even multiple camera systems. So, for now if someone is opting for 31MP sensor on Contax kit, the P30 is the way to go. For 31MP on H system, well that's a different story.
Steve Hendrix
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=97423\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Steve,
Since all the prices of an A-65, P-30 and HD3 are not that far apart, you have to consider useability which means workflow and speed (iso and shoot rate)
Competition should drive better products and hopefully more competitive pricing and it does suprise me that no manufacturer (including the dslrs) has come up with software as useable as C-1.
Flexcolor is better than Leaf software, C-1 is better than Flexcolor and for batching and large editing jobs C-1 is the standard by a long margin.
My point is all things being equal it's the workflow that makes a difference.
As far as mentioning it, I believe the software offering should be mentioned and discussed.
This week I will walk away with 5,000 frames all in mixed light and moving clouds. Probably every 10 frames have to be adjusted in some way.
Having to do this with LC10 is impossible, Flexcolor less difficult, but C-1 it is just another function that really takes no thought.
As I keep saying it's the workflow.
JR
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Steve,
Since all the prices of an A-65, P-30 and HD3 are not that far apart, you have to consider useability which means workflow and speed (iso and shoot rate)
Competition should drive better products and hopefully more competitive pricing and it does suprise me that no manufacturer (including the dslrs) has come up with software as useable as C-1.
Flexcolor is better than Leaf software, C-1 is better than Flexcolor and for batching and large editing jobs C-1 is the standard by a long margin.
My point is all things being equal it's the workflow that makes a difference.
As far as mentioning it, I believe the software offering should be mentioned and discussed.
This week I will walk away with 5,000 frames all in mixed light and moving clouds. Probably every 10 frames have to be adjusted in some way.
Having to do this with LC10 is impossible, Flexcolor less difficult, but C-1 it is just another function that really takes no thought.
As I keep saying it's the workflow.
JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=97456\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
James:
I agree software should be mentioned, I was only referring that Leaf software - and it's failures - has nothing to do with Flexcolor.
Most software for capture is really poor - especially 35mmDSLR software. C1 does what it should do and does it well. And it's to Phase One's credit that they have updated C1 consistently and maintained it's performance while expanding it's capabilities.
Hasselblad has done the same with Flexcolor. It's extremely easy and fast to batch and edit with Flexcolor. Make an adjustment, select the images that are to be modified with that adjustment, click ok. That's it. As a true, multi-threaded application it will apply those modifications in the background quickly and easily.
Flexcolor is also free, chocked full of features, is updated frequently, and can be used on as many computers as you like with no licensing restrictions.
You and I agree that workflow is key. I don't agree that Flexcolor takes a back seat there.
Steve Hendrix
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You and I agree that workflow is key. I don't agree that Flexcolor takes a back seat there.
Steve Hendrix
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=97481\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I have to agree with Steve on this, I have tried C1 several times, and am now using Flexcolor daily. I fail to see where Flexcolor comes short of C1, unless we are talking learning curve where I think its slightly steeper in flex, yet that means little in the long run.
Flex also offers some stuff that C1 does not, an example of this is the excellent DAC II funtions that takes care of a lot of lens defects, something that in my opinion is far more important than a clean modern user interface (C1 certainly is better in this respect than the old interface flex has going...)
On another note in this discussion, where HB is again mentioned for the H3D and some of the backward compatibility issues, one should not forget other back makers and their promises. A lot of the things that I got from dealers when I considered Phase (and had several loaners to test) was the "wireless device is just around the corner", "Cheap upgrades makes it a secure future investment", "C1 will have lens correction software any moment", "Phase One is the best integration with H-bodies" etc. Most if this was/is severely premature information, and some just does not appear on the model that was being presented to me at the time, but may come in future product releases... I think that HB is no worse in this aspect, as a promise of a future that does not appear, or a promise from the past abandoned, is not so different.
I think its time to aknowledge that Hasselblad (imacon) is not behind Phase One. It is my honest opinion that these digital back makers are about equal and have different things going to set them apart, but not take the lead.
-axel
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the P30 has been shipping for over a year and has the same specs as the new! amazing! almost fullframe! cheap! hass H31...and in my book the speed is the same, sorry but i am sure it feels the same, i am also sure i could not time the difference without fancy equipment...so the speed is the same....
i won't say what i paid for my P30 a couple of months ago, but it was a lot less then the price quoted for the H31...
the P30+ will be shipping in a few weeks and is faster then the P30 and has one extra stop...add to that (what could be considered marketing speak) better color, better DR and cleaner shadows and the P30+ is clearly one year ahead of the H31.....just like the shipping date suggests....
not sure where the confusion can be....
i have compared the hass backs to the phase backs and they are good, but not quite as good, especially after the files come out of C1...flexcolor is a very very solid software, but not quite C1....which btw will be upgraded as well and should be out not long after the P+ series ships and with my experience with phase products, i will get better color and better DR and cleaner shadows...and blazing speed with C1v4......at "almost full frame" as well
a story on the side: i had to watch a situation at a store a couple of weeks ago....
a photographer came into the store as i was there as well, she ha dbeen shooting hass V for 30 years....was looking into digital....of course she first asks for the hass solution, gets handed a H body with Hback (probably H3, not sure)...is obviously very very confused, the dealer patiently explains some basics, she looks at all the hass logos, posters,...takes a flier....listens to the price, of course the body is so much, hass quality,bla,bla, bla,...leaves...
i am sure if she does buy a system, she will buy the H with a H back...will she be happy? i am sure, it is a great product....could she buy a cheaper product better suited for her? probably....i am sure she does not have the time or really the interest to dive into one of these forums and get her head twisted...she will buy the brand that has helped her in the last 30 years and she probably does not have any reason to change now....
i guess i am way too much of a geek and pixelpeeper and have invested waaaaaaay too much time to not spend my money on the best (or what i regard as the best) solution for me....i am pretty sure most of the people in this forum are in the same situation as me...which is why it sometimes gets heated and irrational....
but just like giving your client too many options often isn't a good thing....if she would have walked out with leaf, phase, sinar, hass, but only on hass, the others on only H1/2, others on contax, mamiya, but only up to 1/125, but wait, the Hy6 is on the horizon, so maybe emotion (i thought that was sinar, yes it is, but there is also sinar) and that is not even mentioning the software...do you print on epson, canon or HP? the new ones calibrate themselves.....she would have left with her head spinning....
anyway i hope i made a point, got a little carried away.... as always.....
my new years resolution, spend less time reading the LL forum, especially the posts that really don't even concern me, but i know will get my blood boiling....
PS: i just read through my post and hope nobody reads this as some kind of sexist statement...this just happened to be a woman...go to any counter, there are just as many men in the same situation.....
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the P30 has been shipping for over a year and has the same specs as the new! amazing! almost fullframe! cheap! hass H31...and in my book the speed is the same, sorry but i am sure it feels the same, i am also sure i could not time the difference without fancy equipment...so the speed is the same....
i won't say what i paid for my P30 a couple of months ago, but it was a lot less then the price quoted for the H31...
the P30+ will be shipping in a few weeks and is faster then the P30 and has one extra stop...add to that (what could be considered marketing speak) better color, better DR and cleaner shadows and the P30+ is clearly one year ahead of the H31.....just like the shipping date suggests....
not sure where the confusion can be....
i have compared the hass backs to the phase backs and they are good, but not quite as good, especially after the files come out of C1...flexcolor is a very very solid software, but not quite C1....which btw will be upgraded as well and should be out not long after the P+ series ships and with my experience with phase products, i will get better color and better DR and cleaner shadows...and blazing speed with C1v4......at "almost full frame" as well
a story on the side: i had to watch a situation at a store a couple of weeks ago....
a photographer came into the store as i was there as well, she ha dbeen shooting hass V for 30 years....was looking into digital....of course she first asks for the hass solution, gets handed a H body with Hback (probably H3, not sure)...is obviously very very confused, the dealer patiently explains some basics, she looks at all the hass logos, posters,...takes a flier....listens to the price, of course the body is so much, hass quality,bla,bla, bla,...leaves...
i am sure if she does buy a system, she will buy the H with a H back...will she be happy? i am sure, it is a great product....could she buy a cheaper product better suited for her? probably....i am sure she does not have the time or really the interest to dive into one of these forums and get her head twisted...she will buy the brand that has helped her in the last 30 years and she probably does not have any reason to change now....
i guess i am way too much of a geek and pixelpeeper and have invested waaaaaaay too much time to not spend my money on the best (or what i regard as the best) solution for me....i am pretty sure most of the people in this forum are in the same situation as me...which is why it sometimes gets heated and irrational....
but just like giving your client too many options often isn't a good thing....if she would have walked out with leaf, phase, sinar, hass, but only on hass, the others on only H1/2, others on contax, mamiya, but only up to 1/125, but wait, the Hy6 is on the horizon, so maybe emotion (i thought that was sinar, yes it is, but there is also sinar) and that is not even mentioning the software...do you print on epson, canon or HP? the new ones calibrate themselves.....she would have left with her head spinning....
anyway i hope i made a point, got a little carried away.... as always.....
my new years resolution, spend less time reading the LL forum, especially the posts that really don't even concern me, but i know will get my blood boiling....
PS: i just read through my post and hope nobody reads this as some kind of sexist statement...this just happened to be a woman...go to any counter, there are just as many men in the same situation.....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=97545\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Paul:
It's certainly a good illustration of the difficulty in determining an appropriate path with MFDB's these days. That is one of the challenges in selling multiple systems (with more on the way) - show too much, and confuse the issue, show too little, and unnecessarily limit the appropriate solutions.
I believe if someone has been shooting with Hasselblad for years (V-series Hasselblad) as the lady in your story has, then their options are putting a DB on their V-system, or looking at a new DB/Camera combo. And just because it says Hasselblad on an H3D, does not mean that they should naturally go in that direction. Compared to where Hasselblad has been traditionally, it's only a name.
Paul - you're a credit to the forum here, because you bring it with enthusiasm and passion.
But I do have to note that your statement about the P30+ shooting faster than the H3D-31 is not correct. (1.2 spf vs 1.25) That's virtually a dead-heat. But it's right on the data sheets, so it's a statistical comparison, not subjective. It does have an extra stop - so until Hasselblad expands that, edge there to the P30+. Although the P30+ is not shipping today. As of today, the H3D-31 matches the P30. When the P30+ ships, we'll see where Hasselblad is at that time with respect to ISO. Regarding color, dynamic range, cleaner shadows, well, those are more subjective and susceptible to opinion. My opinion holds that the color, DR and shadows on an H3D-31 do not take a back seat to the P30. But that is just my opinion. No one, including me has yet compared a P30 to an H3D-31. That will be happening starting right now, and then we'll see.
I don't agree about year behind or behind at all. Ultimately, though, the market will decide. And that's the way it should be.
On a side note, I did confirm today that the H3D-31 will ship with the standard kit, including body, viewfinder and 80mm lens. This is in the USA, the rumors of body only may be from another part of the globe, and I'm sure the price will reflect that.
Steve Hendrix
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a story on the side: i had to watch a situation at a store a couple of weeks ago....
a photographer came into the store as i was there as well, she ha dbeen shooting hass V for 30 years....was looking into digital....
....i am sure she does not have the time or really the interest to dive into one of these forums and get her head twisted...she will buy the brand that has helped her in the last 30 years and she probably does not have any reason to change now....
i guess i am way too much of a geek and pixelpeeper and have invested waaaaaaay too much time to not spend my money on the best (or what i regard as the best) solution for me....i am pretty sure most of the people in this forum are in the same situation as me...which is why it sometimes gets heated and irrational....
anyway i hope i made a point, got a little carried away.... as always.....
my new years resolution, spend less time reading the LL forum, especially the posts that really don't even concern me, but i know will get my blood boiling....
PS: i just read through my post and hope nobody reads this as some kind of sexist statement...this just happened to be a woman...go to any counter, there are just as many men in the same situation.....
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I think I understand how that photographer felt (and I'm male). I had a similar experience. I walked into a Calumet store to pick up a 70-200mm f/2.8 VR lens for a D2x and asked about medium format digital. I've been shooting medium format film (on an amateur basis) since 1972, been using Photoshop since it was on floppy disks, and using a DSLR since the Nikon D100 came out. MF digital is a whole 'nother animal, it seems. There are many issues with MFD that a Nikon DSLR user doesn't face. I felt like a fish out of water while trying to understand the issues the Calumet store manager was talking about. She let me play with an H3D and one of the appealing aspects was the sense that it seemed like a well integrated system. This could entirely be illusion, but I got the sense that Hasselblad had really thought this system out well and covered most of the pitfalls.
There was sort of a comfortable feeling with the H3D. The questions and issues that occurred to me had been taken care of. Rather than feeling like I would be trying to make a complex digital back work with a camera designed for film. The H3D seemed like my D2x, a digital camera system. So, I can see that a busy professional, who knows little about MFD, but needs to assimilate the technology quickly, would find the HD3 very appealing. I don't know that the H3D would smoothly in integrate into a workflow without caveots, but that is how it felt.
This sort of thing seems to be typical of our times. Technology has provided us with amazing tools and toys, but they can be very complex. Someone wanting to make use of new tools can face a steep learning curve. Want to upgrade your TV to High Def. with surround sound? Sorting out all the issues with HD, Blu-Ray DVD vs. HD-DVD, HDMI connections, receivers, speakers, etc. is like doing a PhD thesis. A lot of people end up with Bose DVD/sound systems that would make an Home Theater geek cry. Why, because Bose puts together a system that minimizes the amount of thinking a buyer has to do, and they market the heck out of it. I'm not equating Hasselblad to Bose. I'm just saying that taking the mental strain out of a high-tech purchase decision will have great appeal to those who don't have the time or inclination to become scholars on the subject.
Me, I'm enough of a geek that I'm going to read forums for awhile and try and get an understanding of the issues and opinions in MFD before I take the leap. However, if the H3D had been the price of a D2x, I probably would have walked out of Calumet with one and not bothered to look at the other possibilities.
Regards,
Robin Casady
[a href=\"http://www.robincasady.com]http://www.robincasady.com[/url]
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Hasselblad is preparing its lineup from the inminent release of the new 20mp+ Canon 1Ds "mk3". The H3D-22 wont make much sense (marketing wise) after Canon releases its new flagship model.
Buying into MF digital is VERY confusing like has been mentioned and even today one can get burned and get the wrong system. Hasselblad really seperates itself from the rest by offering the integrated solution. For better or worse its nice to have an MFG taking that approach so there is a choice for those who dont want research their minds out in finding the right combination of camera and MFDB.
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Hasselblad is preparing its lineup from the inminent release of the new 20mp+ Canon 1Ds "mk3". The H3D-22 wont make much sense (marketing wise) after Canon releases its new flagship model.
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The H3D 22 will still have appeal as the chip is larger and will therefore have still a better viewing experience, less DOF and higher synch speed than the Canon
Buying into MF digital is VERY confusing like has been mentioned and even today one can get burned and get the wrong system. Hasselblad really seperates itself from the rest by offering the integrated solution. For better or worse its nice to have an MFG taking that approach so there is a choice for those who dont want research their minds out in finding the right combination of camera and MFDB.
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The main drawback of H3 seires is surely lack of any lenses with Rise/Fall and the limited range of second hand lenses and the extra costs implied by this
SMM