Luminous Landscape Forum
Site & Board Matters => About This Site => Topic started by: John Camp on January 21, 2007, 10:13:00 pm
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Interesting article. Markets are always fascinating -- even the ones in London.
About the M8 switch, I just got mine back from Solms with The Fixes. I complained about the switch in November, that it moved too easily, and when I didn't intend it to move, and found that a variety of people had different experiences. Some said it was fine, others agreed it was too loose. When I got the camera back, I found the repair people had tightened the switch up quite a bit; it now *clicks* into each stop, and does not move unless you want it to.
JC
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Reichmann's article is a great reading, and the photographs are great.
I also found the power switch problem in my camera.
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I agree that Marrakech is a very attractive destination for photographers. I just hope the old part of town manages to retain its 'mystery' and avoids becoming westernised by the influx of tourists.
I was there in December 2005 and you can find an article on my website here. (http://www.vanruitenbeek.com/artmarrakech.shtml)
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It's good writing and good photos.
Marrakech is indeed an anachrinistic medieval bubble drifting in time. Wonder when it'll burst. For now it's thriving, I was there in November 06 and spent many mornings taking these photos in the alleys:
http://www.globalphotographic.net/MoroccoPreview.htm (http://www.globalphotographic.net/MoroccoPreview.htm)
Sincerely
Sune, Copenhagen
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I was there in November 06 and spent many mornings taking these photos in the alleys
Beautiful work; thanks for sharing! You may wish to change the title on the page, though, as it says 'Patagonia Preview'. Wrong continent!
Mike.
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I also enjoyed the article greatly. It's a welcome bit of relief from all the senselessly technical discussions going on here nowadays. Thanks!
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Good stuff!
I hope viewers of Sune's Morocco work check out the link "Buy a print" at the bottom of the page, to view a more eclectic collection. If I could be allowed to add a small criticism to this excellent work i would like to see the names of the people that feature in portraits. It signifies a respect that we often have , but may not give when we "take" a photograph.
I know where Macgyver is coming from, but many of us find the technical discussions very enjoyable. Like it or not , photography is a science and an art. In this is one of it's fascinations.
Photography transcends its facility as a recording mechanism at the interface of physics , philosophy and aesthetics. In this rare melding is a contact with the sublime. Technical discussions thus are not senseless. Unfortunately there are not many references to this sort of thinking. Minor White was an initiator for me from photography and a little book by Werner Heisenberg, "Physics and Beyond, Encounters and Conversations". If anyone wants something really challenging , I would suggest "Dialogues on Perception"by the brilliant Bela Julesz.
There is more but it's place would be in another thread.
Cheers,
Brian
www.pharoseditions.com.au
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Good stuff!
I hope viewers of Sune's Morocco work check out the link "Buy a print" at the bottom of the page, to view a more eclectic collection. If I could be allowed to add a small criticism to this excellent work i would like to see the names of the people that feature in portraits. It signifies a respect that we often have , but may not give when we "take" a photograph.
I know where Macgyver is coming from, but many of us find the technical discussions very enjoyable. Like it or not , photography is a science and an art. In this is one of it's fascinations.
Photography transcends its facility as a recording mechanism at the interface of physics , philosophy and aesthetics. In this rare melding is a contact with the sublime. Technical discussions thus are not senseless. Unfortunately there are not many references to this sort of thinking. Minor White was an initiator for me from photography and a little book by Werner Heisenberg, "Physics and Beyond, Encounters and Conversations". If anyone wants something really challenging , I would suggest "Dialogues on Perception"by the brilliant Bela Julesz.
There is more but it's place would be in another thread.
Cheers,
Brian
www.pharoseditions.com.au
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=97533\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I couldn't agree more. Photography has a technical side which has to be mastered. If someone is suffering from 'technophobia' then they should recogise it as such, and take remedial action.
The Marrakech report from Michael, as well as Sune's work, is interesting. I see that Michael is heading more towards the 'subtraction' process. Keep it as simple as possible. Sune's photos tend to emphasise lens quality and sharp beards in contrast with fuzzy noses and ears, and of course dazzlingly sharp patterns in the sand.
Ultimately, when all is said and done, I have to ask myself, 'Would I like to hang any of these prints on my wall?'
Michael's images are of a 'general' nature, have a certain mystery and an appealing simplicity. Sune's are much more 'in your face'. One is impressed with the technical quality (he probably used an 85/1.2 lens) but there's also a sense of ugliness there. I don't think I want one of those wizend, wrinkled faces permanently on my wall.
Just my honest impression .
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Here's some Marrakech photos from a Russian guy: click on the heading that looks like mapokko.
http://photo.designproject.com/ (http://photo.designproject.com/)
JC
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It's worthwhile looking at the rest of the site too.
Cheers
Brian
www.pharoseditions.com.au
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Here's some Marrakech photos from a Russian guy: click on the heading that looks like mapokko.
http://photo.designproject.com/ (http://photo.designproject.com/)
JC
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There are some interesting, striking and powerful images there. Well worth looking at. Some better than others of course, as will always be the case because this is a subjective process.
But one thing that strikes me, looking at these images of Morrocco and Marrakech; everyone seems to be just sitting around, doing nothing.
There was an exception in the 35 or so shots from the Russion photographer. Image 31, as I recall, is a shot of an old, overweight guy knitting. A good sign of at least some activity.
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Ray,
I'd have to agree with some reservation.
The people shots by Serge Danyshevsky fall into a portrait genre and are not documentary. Mona Lisa was not doing much . That said there is a sameness about the portraits. They are a little too homogenised for my liking.
What I liked about Danyshevsky's work was the observation of light in the landscapes- particularly the Canada stuff, and his technical ability to hold dynamic range- just look at his clouds.
Cheers
Brian
www.pharoseditions.com.au
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Stumbled across another Marocco gallery this morning (shot coincidentally with a Leica) here (http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder.tcl?folder_id=200150).
Mike.
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Humour of the unintentional variety is available, even here on LuLa.
I was having a cup of coffee this morning with my wife and we were chatting, thinking about some shoots we'd done together in the past, when I thought I'd broach the subject of Michael and his Marrakech trip.
I got as far as saying: 'that chap who runs LuLa, Michael, he's just been on holiday with his new Leica -' when she almost spilled her coffee with laughter. On my trying to find out what had inspired the burst of nervous mirth she sobbed out that she'd thought that I'd been going to say 'with his new wife' and the mental picture of this Michael sitting in his airplane seat with his new Leica beside him had just been too much to bear...
Oh well, women.
Ciao - Rob C
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Stumbled across another Marocco gallery this morning (shot coincidentally with a Leica) here (http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder.tcl?folder_id=200150).
What incredible pictures! The man must be invisible
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i went to Marrakesh when i was 20 about 8-9 years ago, unfortunately i only had a compact camera and 1 film, but i got quite a few images, however i dont have the negs anymore! duh.... so cant scan negs in, i would probably confirm after travelling all over it that those people sitting around are the same ones that were sat there when i went.... Morocco is hot, slow plus add kif and you have the ability to sit around, one thing though that is not shown is modern Morocco, if you truly wanted an accurate picture, then how about the air con buses in Marrakesh, how about the satellite dishes everywhere, and the Porsce 911 i saw parked on the street and all the coca cola signs, the main problem i have with Morocco photography is that it always tries to show it as old fashioned and biblical in nature, which in part it is but not the whole part, i went to an internet cafe and checked my email back in 1999 there, that's not old fashioned...
Infact i had my mobile telephone with me and when i was leaving the desert from a place called Erfurt, i was what seemed in the middle of nowhere i switched on my phone and got a signal, so i called my late father at work in the uk... I dont see that side of morroco portrayed in any photos which in my opinion misses the point, to be an accurate description it needs to show all sides of life which so far most of the photos have not. Yes it looks like that, but it also is modern at the same time so historical documentary photography i would say most of these don't come close... Record what is there not what you want your photos to look like? That is the problem with lots of photographers who come from the west they take pictures of "history," when infact they are taking pictures of what they don't have at home.
I would like to see some pictures by a Moroccan in our countries, i wonder what he would focus on? The poverty or the opulence? Most photos are nice for what they are but they are by no means an accurate description of what is there, which it seems is what most people miss.
Infact if you look at editorial photos on a stock website you will see a more accurate representation of reality, 90 percent are not artistic by most standards but they portray what is there, and if you go back 20 years, and look what they did then photos sometime start to come alive. We should stop trying to make history in the present by trying to make the present look like the past.
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I won't take this comment as "aimed" at me, but I'll make the following observation.
Photography has many faces. It all depends on the photographer's purpose and interests.
Yes, Marrakesh, like almost everywhere in the so-called third world today has two faces – the ancient and the modern. I've decribed it as having "snake charmers with cell phone". The same is true of Bangladesh and Tanzania, two other countries stradling the divide, which I've photographed in during the past two years.
If one is going to such countries to document the transition, or to try and provide insights into the current style of life, then fine – show the satelite dishes and mobile phones. But, and it's a big but, if one simply wants to create images that show others a world that is rapidly disappearing, that is exotic, that is mysterious, that is compelling and intruiging, then do so.
There are no "shoulds". There is simply art.
Michael
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I have similar feelings about how Japan is often portrayed. One would think that it is either full of ancient temples and geisha, or some weird neon lighted country that looks like something from the old "Jetsons" cartoon. So I generally make an effort to avoid any of the stereotypical subjects when I am taking photos around Tokyo or nearly anywhere else in the country.
But the fact is, most people aren't really interested in a documentary about Japan as it really is--very un-mysterious, modern, and quite boring in many ways. Most are interested in the exotic, the traditional, and things that show Japan as different. I have some photos on the web and the ones which show temples, geisha, or some other stereotypical, traditional view of Japan almost always get more hits or downloads than those not readily associated with it.
It is probably the same everywhere. I know if I went back to the States, to say, Montana, and had a choice of photographing a guy in a Mercedes wearing a suit in downtown Billings, and a guy in jeans and boots on his horse chasing cattle (could I even find such a guy) in most cases I'd go for the guy chasing cattle, even though it wouldn't really represent modern Montana, unless it has changed a lot since I left...
i went to Marrakesh when i was 20 about 8-9 years ago, unfortunately i only had a compact camera and 1 film, but i got quite a few images, however i dont have the negs anymore! duh.... so cant scan negs in, i would probably confirm after travelling all over it that those people sitting around are the same ones that were sat there when i went.... Morocco is hot, slow plus add kif and you have the ability to sit around, one thing though that is not shown is modern Morocco, if you truly wanted an accurate picture, then how about the air con buses in Marrakesh, how about the satellite dishes everywhere, and the Porsce 911 i saw parked on the street and all the coca cola signs, the main problem i have with Morocco photography is that it always tries to show it as old fashioned and biblical in nature, which in part it is but not the whole part, i went to an internet cafe and checked my email back in 1999 there, that's not old fashioned...
Infact i had my mobile telephone with me and when i was leaving the desert from a place called Erfurt, i was what seemed in the middle of nowhere i switched on my phone and got a signal, so i called my late father at work in the uk... I dont see that side of morroco portrayed in any photos which in my opinion misses the point, to be an accurate description it needs to show all sides of life which so far most of the photos have not. Yes it looks like that, but it also is modern at the same time so historical documentary photography i would say most of these don't come close... Record what is there not what you want your photos to look like? That is the problem with lots of photographers who come from the west they take pictures of "history," when infact they are taking pictures of what they don't have at home.
I would like to see some pictures by a Moroccan in our countries, i wonder what he would focus on? The poverty or the opulence? Most photos are nice for what they are but they are by no means an accurate description of what is there, which it seems is what most people miss.
Infact if you look at editorial photos on a stock website you will see a more accurate representation of reality, 90 percent are not artistic by most standards but they portray what is there, and if you go back 20 years, and look what they did then photos sometime start to come alive. We should stop trying to make history in the present by trying to make the present look like the past.
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There was no aiming intended! I should have worded it better, as i personally can not fault any image from Morocco i have seen by any photographer in this thread from a thats nice point of view, i was mearlly gibing at the idea of photographing places one doesn't normally go to or see from ones point of view , really, after looking at a photography book yesterday from a Pairis photographer over the years i saw photos that to him at the time were probably not spectacular but today look very interesting, and was trying to bring up the point that some of us try to emulate that feeling we get when looking at older stuff with modern stuff as if it was taken a while ago, if you get my drift?
Maybe im saying photography should be looked at in a fashion that yes the guy in the suit and Mercedes looks boring now, but what about in 20-30-40 years he may be interesting yet we didn't record it? To me and i thank my art teacher from school for this, i felt i had stumbled upon a cliche' that maybe at times i was trying to emulate, but which doesn't do justice to the place one is in. And yet i am seeing it reproduced quite a bit, (yet not detracting from the quality of the photos that have been taken.) Sorry if it wasn't that clear.... maybe i should go there and see what i get, and see if i am guilty of this paradigm of thinking. The question i suppose in my head was that after looking at this book what made it stand up as a fine piece of work nearly 30 years later and will our work, as discussed before, stand up in the same way?
hope that's clearer?
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An interesting exchange.
And it's not only true of the old world. There's a disappearing culture in the American midwest that is farm based, and includes activities like hunting and trapping, and commercial river fishing (for carp.) I would find it fascinating if somebody were to try to honestly document these things, but nobody really does -- there's always an implied agenda somewhere. The stock viewpoints are those of a vegetarian tree-hugger who suffers for the poor animals, or the kill-anything-that-moves semi-pro hunter with 9 million dollars worth of the latest gear. Don't see much about the farmer out with his one-and-only twelve guage picking up a couple of pheasants, and not much caring whether he shoots anything or not, but is basically out just enjoying his land; or a kid trapping muskrats because he lives in a small jobless town and it's the only way he can get money for an iPod. It is a sincere and long-standing life style, and it is going away, and there really isn't anybody documenting it whose agenda is sincere/artistic/historical rather than political.
JC
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An interesting exchange.
It is indeed. Don't have much to add, but it's one of the more intriguing discussions on this list for some time! As Alain wrote in his article 'Just Say Yes', there's a viewpoint among many people that a photograph has to be an accurate view of something, but the bottom line is that every image is manipulated in some way, whether it's from Photoshop or simply what's included or excluded in the viewfinder at the moment the shutter release button is clicked.
Mike.
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My first post on Luminous Landscape, so just to say Hi and to compliment
Michel for his effort including many of the Luminous-Landscape members for
their contributions to this site.
:: GREAT SOURCE ::
Danijela D. K
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There's something strange about wanting people to do something other than that which they choose to do; unless there is a commission involved, then do whatever turns you on. Some commissions even allow that.
Reference to photography of places like Paris by people working between the wars or just after WW2 is spurious: if one cares to read interviews with the likes of Doisneau, Ronis, HC-B et al. then it becomes clear that what happened then, what was permissible and possible in those years is gone forever; at best, today such attempts at people hunting will earn one a swift kick in the ass if not a bunch of fives. And why not? It's intrusion, colour it how you will; a camera in the hand gives no devine authority of use, however much such power might be craved.
Most of the photography of the type in question, which was shot in those early days, was for left-wing publications - does anyone think there was no political agenda, no axe to grind, that it was all some cosy artistic endeavour? Poverty and the exotically 'downtrodden' masses predominate in those photographs because it suited the publishers to depict such material. One could have shot something very similar in '50s Glasgow - indeed, some did - but there was bugger-all pleasant in the experience being pictured - different accents and languages but the same squalor. Funny how now we see it as quaint and, somehow, romantic.
There is certainly merit to the idea of documentation of now for the future. But that is a different animal, one that requires a specific agenda which is not necessarily to do with creating artistic documents in the manner of fine prints. I'd suggest that most of the pictures which people produce when without a paypacket at the end of the exercise are shot with the 'pretty picture' ethic somewhere at the back of the mind. There's nothing wrong with that. For some people it results in exactly what they had chased, for others it ends in disappointment; either way, it's always been their call. Frankly, documentation by the likes of the people I mentioned earlier on might have been more manipulated than today's somewhat brain-washed viewer likes to believe; was it art? Did the photographer really believe he was producing 'art'? Did such an idea ever cross his mind, I wonder.
Ciao - Rob C
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Art it all is and opinion it all is, what is important from my point of view is photos that stand the test of time, this is no mean feat if you can do it despite political agenda, maybe im hoping that i can think outside the box and produce something original, all photos are a point of view, yet all photos also should try to produce an accurate moment maybe if that is even possible of where we are, otherwise we start to distort reality and then maybe we don't help ourselves later as we cant really remember if it was that good/real?
Maybe only cctv images are real? or webcams if they are not controlled by people? Anyway good discussion
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a Quote from an earlier post:
"I just hope the old part of town manages to retain its 'mystery' and avoids becoming westernised by the influx of tourists."
I took this to mean that the poster didn't want to see these people take part in prosperity. I find that strange from a person with a digital camera and lens around their neck that would cost several year's wages for the "model." But this starts to sound political or religeous.
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Wakeboy:
Go nuts - spend yor time and money making a documentary of suburban Marrakech 2007, bet it would sell (?), be interesting (to some), photogenic (may well be). Same thing goes for New Ireland, Micronesia, Tajikistan - There's no limit to how mediocrely dull you could present every corner of the world if you're really into that.
Travel around the globe looking for black birds if you feel like it, I don't :-)
If you're prospecting for gold, your bag's content wont be representative of the mineralogy of the field you browsed through - would it.
I'm not saying you don't have a point - I'd just never waste my time making it.
Sincerely
Sune
www.globalphotographic.net
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sune
I was not detracting from the quality of your pictures, i was mearly talking about the ideas that all of us (we) use in our photos and was suggesting they were a bit cliche, mine included. Thus i am suggesting a paradigm change slightly to discover how can it be done differently yet original and interesting? After all it is all art.... there is no correct answer.
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I have finally read the article. Nice images, but it struck me that the M8 appears to be most inapropriate a tool for such a locale where people don't want to be photographed.
A D80 with a 18-200 VR would IMHO be much more versatile a tool.
Cheers,
Bernard
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"I just hope the old part of town manages to retain its 'mystery' and avoids becoming westernised by the influx of tourists."
I took this to mean that the poster didn't want to see these people take part in prosperity. I find that strange from a person with a digital camera and lens around their neck that would cost several year's wages for the "model." But this starts to sound political or religeous.
Odd, I took it to mean that he didn't want to see historically important settings destroyed by ugly commercial billboards. There are people who would gladly plaster the eastern face of the Rockies with ads for beer because "you can't eat scenery". That doesn't mean we should let them do it.
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a Quote from an earlier post:
"I just hope the old part of town manages to retain its 'mystery' and avoids becoming westernised by the influx of tourists."
I took this to mean that the poster didn't want to see these people take part in prosperity. I find that strange from a person with a digital camera and lens around their neck that would cost several year's wages for the "model." But this starts to sound political or religeous.
Only just read this post from last year. I wrote the original quote.
You totally misrepresent my point of view. I don't equate not being westernised with being poor. That would be very condescending. There are many ways people can be prosperous that do not involve being westernised. What I meant was that the old town is not spoilt by McDonalds, Starbucks, etc. It retains its own character and this has nothing to do with being poor. Venice has got its own character, Tokyo has, New York has. Yes, compared to most of the people living there I have a lot more money and an expensive camera, but that does not disqualify me from appreciating different cultures.