Luminous Landscape Forum

Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: Ken Tanaka on November 23, 2006, 07:20:33 pm

Title: I Wonder When the Epson 3800 Will Appear..
Post by: Ken Tanaka on November 23, 2006, 07:20:33 pm
Much chatter about the new Canons and HPs but little about the new, but as yet unreleased, Epson.  I wonder if Michael has one sitting on his desk chunking out "test" prints?

Whither art thou Epson 3800?
Title: I Wonder When the Epson 3800 Will Appear..
Post by: ericbullock on November 23, 2006, 07:29:30 pm
The 3800 will rear its head soon enough...but I would not expect anything ground breaking. The six droplet sizes are interesting, but will this give it any appreciable advantage over the new Canons and HP's?

I wonder when we'll see a 12 color Epson? I'd be all over that!

;o)

-eric-
Title: I Wonder When the Epson 3800 Will Appear..
Post by: michael on November 23, 2006, 08:32:16 pm
I was told a few days ago by Epson that it will start shipping in the US and Canada next week. I was told that I'd get a review sample shortly.

Michael
Title: I Wonder When the Epson 3800 Will Appear..
Post by: picnic on November 23, 2006, 09:19:49 pm
Quote
Much chatter about the new Canons and HPs but little about the new, but as yet unreleased, Epson.  I wonder if Michael has one sitting on his desk chunking out "test" prints?

Whither art thou Epson 3800?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=86801\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

They have been shipping in Europe for over a week--probably 2.  There have been several people on other forums who have been printing with them (UK, Switzerland, Finland--and they are readily available in stores there)--plus several that have printed with them in the US under special circumstances (the tech at inkjetart that had one for 12 hours at an Epson event--and Andrew Rodney has the one he used at PHoto Expo and others that used them there--at least one report on the DigitalB&W list).  

I'm patiently waiting for mine to replace a 2200---(which I may switch to Piezography K7 split tone/QTR--depends upon how I feel about printing toned monos without using ABW on the printer).

Diane
Title: I Wonder When the Epson 3800 Will Appear..
Post by: claskin on November 23, 2006, 11:49:17 pm
I am sure that someone will not be impressed with my following comments, but I am interested in feedback from those after they have the 3800.

Some background: I have always gone for the latest and greatest, when I could afford it. I have been a student of the technology arena since 1982. (My first PC was an IBM with a 16 K motherboard that I upgraded all the way to 64 K plus it had 2, count 'em, 2 5.25 floppy disk drives). I bought and sold PCs every 6-9 months so I was always current. I predicted the market accurately for many years selling the current system for about what I paid for it. To keep pace, you had to be prepared to go without for a few months and then could buy the newest kid on the block.

With such an "impressive" track record :-), I finally got burned when I bought an Epson 4000. Don't get me wrong, a great printer with much to its credit. However, I did not spot that this printer was to function as a stop-gap measure by Epson who soon released the 4800...within 10 months of the release of the 4000. In retrospect I should have seen this coming since the 4000 was a 17 inch release of the old technology represented by the 7600/9600. To add insult to injury, upon release of the 4800, Michael stated in the "What's New" section, "....Epson announced perhaps the worst kept secret new printer, the 4800...." [paraphrase]. Clearly, everyone kept the secret from me. Regardless, I had no regrets but I did get foiled in the bragging rights for the latest and greatest.

To my point: I think the 3800 is an interesting printer addressing the needs of many with a 17 inch printer that is smaller than the 4800, much lighter in weight and an upgrade to printing technology somewhat. They have addressed the black ink fiasco again to a great extend. They have sacrificed the roll option and the carts are smaller but there has to be some reason to get a 4800. As importantly, this printer is much less expensive than the 4800. There can be little doubt that this printer will cannibalize sales of the 4800.

The 3800 is lighter because it is all, or almost all, plastic. It is cheaper for the same reason. It introduces an improvement in the printing technology which will likely be passed on to a newer, higher end printer line. The 3800 does not compete with either the new "Z-series" HPs or the Canon ipf5000 (in spite of its warts). Both of these competitors have fired a salvo across Epson's bow. There is no way Epson will stand still with the current X800 line of K3 printers for much longer. Therefore, I believe the 3800 is a viable attempt to capture more of the wider carriage market but is only a temporary measure until they are ready to launch the new series of printers to compete with HP and Canon. The 3800 is another stop-gap measure whose lifespan may only be 6 months.

I really don't mean to rain on anyone's parade. The 3800 will be a good printer and do the job well. However, call it what it is, another stop-gap measure.
Carl
Title: I Wonder When the Epson 3800 Will Appear..
Post by: DavidRees on November 24, 2006, 03:04:22 am
Carl,

I'm interested in your comments, and they have caused me to think.

I'm an amateur photographer based in the far north of Scotland, who is just making the transition into professional work, and I have been using an Epson 1290 for 5 years. Now that I wish to sell prints, it is time to move to a printer with inks which will last appreciably longer, and also to have the capability of printing on 17"x22" paper. I am not flush with cash, and am pushed for space in my home office, which is also upstairs, so the cost, bulk and weight of the Epson 4800 and the Canon ipf5000 all put me off rather.

On the face of it, the Epson 3800 meets my needs nicely. The initial price of 1199UKP is already tumbling (dropped by 250UKP), so this printer is approaching affordable - now around 60% of the price of the ipf5000 or 4800.

The thought that the printer may be "transitonal" in some sense does make me wonder. However, there is nothing else on the market which meets my cost, weight and size restrictions at the moment, and though I'm sure HP and Canon will provide solutions for me in the future, I'd rather not have to wait another year or so. If the Epson 3800 is a capable printer, which we'll soon know when Michael gets his copy for review, then I think on balance I'll get one, and be happy to run it for a number of years. My view is that we're now at the point in the printer market where the products have matured enough that it is not necessary to have the latest technology; the changes each year now seem incremental, rather than revolutonary. However, if others differ from this viewpoint, please do feel free to express yourselves!
Title: I Wonder When the Epson 3800 Will Appear..
Post by: K.C. on November 24, 2006, 03:23:23 am
Every printer on the market is a 'stop-gap' product.

There is no arrival at 'This is it' and there never will be.
Title: I Wonder When the Epson 3800 Will Appear..
Post by: madmanchan on November 24, 2006, 09:41:10 am
Quote
Every printer on the market is a 'stop-gap' product.

There is no arrival at 'This is it' and there never will be.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=86825\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I agree 100% with this. Even if the 3800 is soon superceded by, say, a x900 series with K4 inks, if the 3800 is a wonderful printer then it's a wonderful printer.

Eric
Title: I Wonder When the Epson 3800 Will Appear..
Post by: picnic on November 24, 2006, 11:53:27 am
Quote
I agree 100% with this. Even if the 3800 is soon superceded by, say, a x900 series with K4 inks, if the 3800 is a wonderful printer then it's a wonderful printer.

Eric
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=86849\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Basically, that's what I've come to see--the recent improvements in all seem to be more evolutionary than revolutionary--and incremental.

 I printed with a 1280 for a number of years and bought the 2200 as soon as it came out--almost exclusively for archival reasons.  I"m more than ready to upgrade and had anticipated buying the 2400 since I really don't need a volume printer with large carts, huge size, etc.  Then--the HP9180 arrived--and it made me reconsider.  And then----the 3800 which has all the 2400 has and then some (and I really am anxious to have the capability to print on larger media when I choose--not all the time, but I do have clients for whom I've had to send to other printers).  I think its made for folks like me--lower volume printers who want excellent prints, little metamerism and when I use luster papers, as little 'bronzing' and GD as possible without resorting to the 'glop' printers (I CAN spray if necessary for GD if its overly offensive).  

 I'm interested mostly, I think, in finding a good solution for mono prints (I've used QTR in the past--and may still go to a dedicated b/w printer with the 2200), larger media, the better K3 inks---and a not huge printer with not huge carts.  At present there is no other alternative out there--if there was I would be in more of a dilemma.   Several of us that are happy about the 3800 being introduced were taken to task, more or less LOL (on another forum)---for not understanding that the 4800 or the Canon iPF5000 were the workhorses that we MUST need--they just don't get the fact that there are lots of people out there like me.

 I feel sure I can be happy with it for a number of years as I've been with my other printers--and it won't get hard knocks in my work area *smile* so it doesn't have to be a tank.  However, that being said, I'm anxious for more 'real life' reviews---the ones I've read have been excellent, so---hope Michael gets his, among others, before mine ships (preordered) as a bit more input to consider.

Diane
Title: I Wonder When the Epson 3800 Will Appear..
Post by: Ken Tanaka on November 24, 2006, 12:08:29 pm
Indeed, as others remarked above, all tech products are transitional and "stop gap".  Chasing the ultimate product is like a greyhound chasing a track rabbit.

If the 3800 produces prints as good as the 2400 and its K3 siblings, finally solves the silly PB/MK dance, and occupies a smaller footprint than the 4xxx printers it will be worth every penny.  The extra 4" of print width will, at least for me, be a nice but unnecessary bonus feature.  I outsource my very occasional large print jobs; it makes far more cost and space sense for me.  

I'm only interested in the latest technology to the extent that is solves real problems or provides genuinely useful new capabilities for me.  Contrary to what casual observation might often suggest this is about photography, not computers.
Title: I Wonder When the Epson 3800 Will Appear..
Post by: madmanchan on November 24, 2006, 12:37:37 pm
BTW, I'm assuming you've seen InkJetArt's report on the few hours they had to spend with a 3800 recently:

http://www.inkjetart.com/3800/report/index.html (http://www.inkjetart.com/3800/report/index.html)

It's obviously not comprehensive, given that they had limited time, but good reading anyways.

Eric
Title: I Wonder When the Epson 3800 Will Appear..
Post by: pflower on November 24, 2006, 03:39:48 pm
Well for what it's worth (and probably not much at this point) mine arrived yesterday.  I was planning on a 7800 but decided to wait until epson do something about the photo/matte black swapping fiasco.  In the UK the 3800 is about 45% cheaper than the IPF 5000 and half the size which prompted me to go for it.  Also the sample prints I got from the 5000 were truly dreadful so I was disinclined to go with the company that produced them.  Of course I am sure the printer is wonderful.

First thoughts - very easy to set up - 20 minutes to get it up and running (some of which was spent looking for a pair of scissors to open the cartridges).  Predominantly plastic and easily lifted by one person.  But much more substantial than my 2100.  Seems very well made and very solid.  Very quiet and _much_ quicker.  Possibly the first printer I have used which makes it feasible to even consider printing at 2880.

Only initial problem was that the first print was disasterous due to one of the blacks being clogged - possibly didn't shake the cartridge enough when installing.  Since then I have printed about 20 A3+ and a lot of proofs.  I print on Photo Rag but have been playing with Fine Art Pearl as well.  Using the canned profiles for Archival Matte and Enhanced Matte for photo rag the prints I am getting are very close in colour to those from a properly profiled 2100 with Lyson photochrome inks.   The colours are very close indeed - and what I want.  Will probably order some profiles next week but would expect only subtle improvements.

Not perhaps the truly dramatic improvement I had (half) hoped for, but the prints certainly have a little more bite to them and more detail than the 2100.  I don't think it has persuaded me to reprint my entire portfolio immediately, but definitely very good prints and an improvement.

I think that I heard someone else mention this - I printed a number of very dark prints - subtle (well I think so) detail in the shadows running to deep black with limited highlights.  Coming out of the printer the print didn't even begin to match the monitor - much too dark with no detail at all.  Half an hour later the print had changed considerably - the detail was back and (canned profile notwithstanding) was very close to the monitor.  Strange.  I will experiment a bit more on that next week.

B&W  on photo rag is very good with the AWB.  Even though these were converted digital colour images and I didn't really work at them.  Fine Art Pearl not so good, I suspect I have a lot more work to do on working out the best media settings and dpi to get separation in the shadows and look at the right profile to use with that paper.

Swapping from matte black to photo black painless but takes about 2 or 3 minutes.  Haven't monitored the ink loss but trust epson's assessment that it is minimal.


All in all a very solid printer.  Definitely happy with the purchase.
Title: I Wonder When the Epson 3800 Will Appear..
Post by: picnic on November 24, 2006, 04:20:19 pm
Quote
I think that I heard someone else mention this - I printed a number of very dark prints - subtle (well I think so) detail in the shadows running to deep black with limited highlights.  Coming out of the printer the print didn't even begin to match the monitor - much too dark with no detail at all.  Half an hour later the print had changed considerably - the detail was back and (canned profile notwithstanding) was very close to the monitor.  Strange.  I will experiment a bit more on that next week.

B&W  on photo rag is very good with the AWB.  Even though these were converted digital colour images and I didn't really work at them.  Fine Art Pearl not so good, I suspect I have a lot more work to do on working out the best media settings and dpi to get separation in the shadows and look at the right profile to use with that paper.


[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=86901\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'm not sure if I mentioned it on this forum or not, but David Tobie of IP mentioned that on the DigitalB&W list---and I did post it on the dpreview printer forum.   He, too, felt the prints were ruined but that as it dried (I think he said about 20 minutes but I would not want to be quoted on that LOL) the shadows opened, the print looked like the monitor.  This phenomen could scare those that haven't heard about it---but I"m wondering if other K3 printers do this also--the inks are the same--some other things not quite.

Thanks for the little review.  One of my strong interests is toned mono prints so I"m anxious to try it.  After years with the 1280, then the 2200 with QTR---I'm looking forward to seeing other possibilities.

I forgot to ask where, geographically, you are---assuming in Europe somewhere though.

Diane
Title: I Wonder When the Epson 3800 Will Appear..
Post by: Jonathan Wienke on November 24, 2006, 05:22:31 pm
You should let any inkjet print dry completely before critically examining it. 24 hours is not unreasonable for Epson prints, especially if they are going to be framed under glass (you can get fogging otherwise). When profiling, I let all prints dry 24 hours before measuring the patches; otherwise the profiles will not be as accurate.
Title: I Wonder When the Epson 3800 Will Appear..
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on November 24, 2006, 08:54:24 pm
Quote
I agree 100% with this. Even if the 3800 is soon superceded by, say, a x900 series with K4 inks, if the 3800 is a wonderful printer then it's a wonderful printer.

Eric
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=86849\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
How come I keep finding myself in complete agreement with people named Eric?  

Eric (M.)
Title: I Wonder When the Epson 3800 Will Appear..
Post by: claskin on November 24, 2006, 11:49:02 pm
The thought that the printer may be "transitonal" in some sense does make me wonder. However, there is nothing else on the market which meets my cost, weight and size restrictions at the moment, and though I'm sure HP and Canon will provide solutions for me in the future, I'd rather not have to wait another year or so. If the Epson 3800 is a capable printer, which we'll soon know when Michael gets his copy for review, then I think on balance I'll get one, and be happy to run it for a number of years. My view is that we're now at the point in the printer market where the products have matured enough that it is not necessary to have the latest technology; the changes each year now seem incremental, rather than revolutonary. However, if others differ from this viewpoint, please do feel free to express yourselves!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=86823\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
[/quote]


David,
My comments hold far less credibility than those made after especially the initial impressions of those that already have the printer. Yes I believe that this printer is the harbinger of perhaps a new series from Epson. However, no one has any printer this size, weight and price with outstanding output from an inkset with an excellent track record. I was speculating based upon what I believe to be some acurate insights. I may be wrong. However, whether I am right or wrong, if this printer fits your usage now, go for it. I don't think anyone will bring something out to compete with it. Remember HP and Canon simply don't have the long track record Epson has.

I hope that this answers your concerns.

Carl
Title: I Wonder When the Epson 3800 Will Appear..
Post by: madmanchan on November 25, 2006, 08:33:05 am
Now that we have multiple big players in the inkjet printer market now (Epson, HP, Canon) we might expect shorter upgrade cycles due to competition. Perhaps not on the same aggressive schedule as the DSLR market, but faster than it has been. This might pressure the consumer towards "upgradeitis" but on the plus side it will consumer better choices. On the negative side, a consumer might suffer from having too many choices!

Eric
Title: I Wonder When the Epson 3800 Will Appear..
Post by: DavidRees on November 25, 2006, 02:56:52 pm
Carl,

Your comment was very helpful to me, as have been the responses others have added. I happen to pretty much agree with you -- I think Epson are quickly going to have to upgrade the K3 inkset with additional inks, and the resulting printers will also incorporate some useful additional functionality, in order to stay competitive -- and if Epson have any desire to hold into the market share they've taken in the space, they'll move forward PDQ. So the 3800 will be shortlived, I think. Nonetheless it is the first printer which addresses my current needs. It is particularly annoying to me that here in the UK, the price of the 3800 is only a little less than the prices for a 4800 -- I could afford the extra £££, but have no place in my office where it could fit!

As I intimated in my earlier post, sites here in the UK are already offering the 3800 at quite a bit less than the recommended price from Epson, which sweetens the pill a bit. I've watched the printer market for a couple of years now, and I think early 2007 is when I have to make a purchase. Unless something really good appears on the horizon in the next couple of months, Epson will have one more sale.
Title: I Wonder When the Epson 3800 Will Appear..
Post by: thompsonkirk on November 25, 2006, 10:48:36 pm
Wasn't the 4800 was clearly "transitional" - designed to use the basic 4000 chassis & 8 ink cartridges, when what was called for was a 9-cartridge printer with ready MK-PK switch, & a new approach to non-clogging head design?  I thought these were 2 important reasons for not replacing a 4000.  

I appreciate the comments in this thread, because my 4000 is definitely up past its bedtime: still too much metamerism, & no way to make good glossy/luster prints, or use the new PK papers without obvious GD.  I'd planned on getting an Ipf 5000 before the end of the year, but have been concerned because its additional 6" width would cramp my fixed & limited workspace.  So I hope Michael can offer a review soon - nobody is in a better position to compare 3800 & Ipf 5000.

Kirk
Title: I Wonder When the Epson 3800 Will Appear..
Post by: thompsonkirk on November 25, 2006, 11:23:35 pm
Postscript:

The thread led me to read the IJA site & the 3800 brochure, & I found 3 interessting points:

Plus:

The footprint is only 27x15x10" - a real space-saver.

It will print larger sheets than 17x22", if you cut rolls into shorter lengths.  IJA tried this with their own version of luster paper, & I wonder if it'll work with a heavier paper like 308g HPR.  I've tried cutting rolls before & running them through sheet-feed printers, & the curl of heavy papers sometimes caused them to rub against the print head.  (Maybe Michael can try this for his review.)

Questionable:

The specs for system requirements for Mac say "OSX 10.4.7 or higher (universal binary)."  Does this mean the driver was written for, & only for, new G5 Macs?  If so, amazingly dumb - a straight shot to the foot?
Title: I Wonder When the Epson 3800 Will Appear..
Post by: John Hollenberg on November 25, 2006, 11:54:34 pm
Quote
'd planned on getting an Ipf 5000 before the end of the year, but have been concerned because its additional 6" width would cramp my fixed & limited workspace.  So I hope Michael can offer a review soon - nobody is in a better position to compare 3800 & Ipf 5000.

This doesn't directly answer your question, but I have put a comparison table showing the Canon IPF5000, Epson 3800 and Epson 4800 on the unofficial Canon IPF5000 Wiki:

http://www.canonipf5000.wikispaces.com (http://www.canonipf5000.wikispaces.com)

Look under the FAQ.

Of course, I don't have a 3800 to compare, but many of the specs are known, and the inkset is the same as the 4800.  There are some "Unknown" in the 3800 column, but still a good comparison.

PS I bought the IPF5000.

--John
Title: I Wonder When the Epson 3800 Will Appear..
Post by: JeffKohn on November 26, 2006, 01:15:35 am
While I do agree that it's likely Epson has something bigger and better in store (possibly just around the corner), I don't think that means the 3800 will be short-lived. My guess is that when/if Epson comes out with a new inkset and corresponding printers, they will be targeted squarely at the pro market and priced accordingly; ie the 17" model will be priced more along the lines of the Canon/HP models, not the 3800. My guess is whatever new technology they come out with won't "trickle down" to the price level of the 3800 until they either feel they can do so without hurting sales of the pro models or feel they have to respond to something from the competition.
Title: I Wonder When the Epson 3800 Will Appear..
Post by: thompsonkirk on November 26, 2006, 12:15:18 pm
Thank you, John.  Nice site!  The remaining quetion is whether 3800 driver can be used with Mac G4, or only with G5.  

Kirk
Title: I Wonder When the Epson 3800 Will Appear..
Post by: Ken Tanaka on November 26, 2006, 12:59:29 pm
Quote
Thank you, John.  Nice site!  The remaining quetion is whether 3800 driver can be used with Mac G4, or only with G5. 

Kirk
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=87168\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The (now-discontinued) Mac G4 and G5 processors are both of the same processor family.  The current Macs use Intel processors, a different family altogether.  The "universal binary" references you'll see in various programs refers to the program's ability to run natively (i.e. without on-the-fly processor translation) on either a G4/G5 processor or an Intel processor.

Bottom line:  Don't worry about the Epson drivers.  They're compatible with either G or Intel Macs.
Title: I Wonder When the Epson 3800 Will Appear..
Post by: xrogers on November 29, 2006, 12:58:04 am
Quote
While I do agree that it's likely Epson has something bigger and better in store (possibly just around the corner), I don't think that means the 3800 will be short-lived. My guess is that when/if Epson comes out with a new inkset and corresponding printers, they will be targeted squarely at the pro market and priced accordingly; ie the 17" model will be priced more along the lines of the Canon/HP models, not the 3800. My guess is whatever new technology they come out with won't "trickle down" to the price level of the 3800 until they either feel they can do so without hurting sales of the pro models or feel they have to respond to something from the competition.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=87103\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I agree.  The 4000/4800 change was largely (totally?) an inkset change---the 8 ink printer remained an 8 ink printer.

The 3800 is different, creating a new class of printer; low end pro, 9 inks with an 8 ink head, sharing inks with the 2400 (and likely with its replacement).  In fact, it seems like the 3800 could marginalize or even kill the 4800.  I simply don't believe that is Epson's plan.

At the high end, the replacements for the 4800 and up will get a new inkset (no more black switching, add some colors, maybe glop, etc.), new heads, and will aim to exceed the new high-end HPs.  This differentiates the 3800 and the 4800 replacement, making the 4800 replacement relevant and competitive again.

I expect that the short-lived printers today are the 4800 and up, not the 3800.
Title: I Wonder When the Epson 3800 Will Appear..
Post by: jjlphoto on November 29, 2006, 07:47:52 am
Quote
The specs for system requirements for Mac say "OSX 10.4.7 or higher (universal binary)."  Does this mean the driver was written for, & only for, new G5 Macs?  If so, amazingly dumb - a straight shot to the foot?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=87092\")

See here (scroll to page bottom): [a href=\"http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=13363]http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=13363[/url]
Title: I Wonder When the Epson 3800 Will Appear..
Post by: jjlphoto on November 29, 2006, 07:58:19 am
Quote
BTW, I'm assuming you've seen InkJetArt's report on the few hours they had to spend with a 3800 recently:

http://www.inkjetart.com/3800/report/index.html (http://www.inkjetart.com/3800/report/index.html)

It's obviously not comprehensive, given that they had limited time, but good reading anyways.

Eric
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=86878\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I read the link- good info, but where it shows screen shots of media types, and you are using non- Epson papers, they do not make any suggestions for what to select for Hahnemuhle Photo Rag, Crane Museo Silver Rag or Innova F-Type FibaPrint Gloss Ultra Smooth? Any suggestions on how to figure out what to select? When I make my own custom profiles, I guess I should be selecting a media type somewhat similar to what I am actually printing the target on.
Title: I Wonder When the Epson 3800 Will Appear..
Post by: picnic on November 29, 2006, 09:03:54 am
Quote
I read the link- good info, but where it shows screen shots of media types, and you are using non- Epson papers, they do not make any suggestions for what to select for Hahnemuhle Photo Rag, Crane Museo Silver Rag or Innova F-Type FibaPrint Gloss Ultra Smooth? Any suggestions on how to figure out what to select? When I make my own custom profiles, I guess I should be selecting a media type somewhat similar to what I am actually printing the target on.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=87681\")

I would start with the paper mfgs. pages, i.e.,  [a href=\"http://www.hahnemuehle.com/site/us/1014/epson.html]http://www.hahnemuehle.com/site/us/1014/epson.html[/url]  with handling instructions and profiles for all the pigment printers available now (3800 not included but the handling instructions should be general enough for the 2400 and 4800 that would give you what they consider the correct media choices).  Here is the Innova  http://www.anwcrestwood.com/innova/innova_icc.cfm (http://www.anwcrestwood.com/innova/innova_icc.cfm)  and the
Museo  http://www.crane.com/museo/profiles.aspx (http://www.crane.com/museo/profiles.aspx)


Diane
Title: I Wonder When the Epson 3800 Will Appear..
Post by: Quentin on November 29, 2006, 09:44:55 am
Quote
I expect that the short-lived printers today are the 4800 and up, not the 3800.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=87650\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The reason I kept my 4600 when the 4800 was introduced was because it seemed too small a step forward, with the old problems of two blacks that were not useable simulltaneously.  We also have a 4000 precisely because two blacks can be used at once.

The 3800 has both blacks loaded simutaneously and they switch automatically with almost no ink loss, a big step forward.  Problem is, try as I may, and apart from monochrome, I have concluded that I seriously dislike matte inkjet prints from the Epsons unless under glass. I have pretended otherwise for the last 3 years but its no good, I can't deal with the limitations any more.  The low dmax matte Epson thing is dead for me, along with the whole gamut (sic) of pretentious pseudo-art papers that are nothing of the kind.  OK, I exaggerate a bit, but you get the drift...

So I want top quality glossy or semigloss with ZERO bronzing, a bit like a cheap Canon Selphy dye sub printer manages for £40.  Can a 3800 do that?  I doubt it.

Quentin
Title: I Wonder When the Epson 3800 Will Appear..
Post by: jjlphoto on November 29, 2006, 09:53:51 am
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I would start with the paper mfgs. pages, i.e.,  http://www.hahnemuehle.com/site/us/1014/epson.html (http://www.hahnemuehle.com/site/us/1014/epson.html)  with handling instructions and profiles for all the pigment printers available now (3800 not included but the handling instructions should be general enough for the 2400 and 4800 that would give you what they consider the correct media choices).  Here is the Innova  http://www.anwcrestwood.com/innova/innova_icc.cfm (http://www.anwcrestwood.com/innova/innova_icc.cfm)  and the
Museo  http://www.crane.com/museo/profiles.aspx (http://www.crane.com/museo/profiles.aspx)
Diane
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Thanks!

I read the PDF's, and they recommend as follows:

Innova Fibaprint recommends the Epson Ultra Smooth Fine Art media setting, so you will be running Matte Black ink.

Hahnemuhle PhotoRag recommends the Epson Velvet Fine Art or Watercolor media setting, so this looks like Matte Black ink also.

Crane Museo Silver Rag recommends Epson Premuim Semi-Gloss or Premium Lusture media setting, so you will be running Photo Black ink.
Title: I Wonder When the Epson 3800 Will Appear..
Post by: jjlphoto on November 30, 2006, 09:19:08 am
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There is no arrival at 'This is it' and there never will be.
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The best printer is the one that fits in your office, does what you need it to do today, can be delivered in a timely manner within your budget, can be ramped up and fiqured out with a minimum of effort, and allows you to have access to a large experienced user base through on-line tech forums.

IMO, the Epson 3800 meets all these requirements. Not soley because I have been a loyal Epson user for over eight years, it is also that I just do not have the time to learn all the ins and outs of another companies print driver and paper/ink characteristics.
Title: I Wonder When the Epson 3800 Will Appear..
Post by: yoni on November 30, 2006, 09:46:52 am
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The best printer is the one that fits in your office, does what you need it to do today, can be delivered in a timely manner within your budget, can be ramped up and fiqured out with a minimum of effort, and allows you to have access to a large experienced user base through on-line tech forums.

IMO, the Epson 3800 meets all these requirements. Not soley because I have been a loyal Epson user for over eight years, it is also that I just do not have the time to learn all the ins and outs of another companies print driver and paper/ink characteristics.
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My take too.