Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: oMoses on November 15, 2006, 04:35:06 PM

Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: oMoses on November 15, 2006, 04:35:06 PM
There was some blame on color design of new Rollei Hy6 when it was announced couple of months back at Photokina 2006. Here you are few images of this camera in new and, most likely, final appearance:
(http://www.pbase.com/omoses/image/70176043/original.jpg)
(http://www.pbase.com/omoses/image/70176041/original.jpg)
(http://www.pbase.com/omoses/image/70176042/original.jpg)
(http://www.pbase.com/omoses/image/70176044/original.jpg)

The same Rollei Hy6 pictures (along with Hy6 initial, concept design & Rollei 6008 AF pictures) might be seen at oMoses Rollei equipment (http://www.pbase.com/omoses/eq_rollei)
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: david o on November 16, 2006, 08:31:32 AM
looks good...
next step availability and price...
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: Kenneth Sky on November 16, 2006, 09:41:12 AM
I disagee. From a visual inspection it appears "clunky" - a throwback to 50 years ago. The ergonomics - specifically the handle - don't seem to take into consideration the shape of the human hand. It would be nice to see a prism viewfinder as well.
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: kendal on November 16, 2006, 10:06:50 AM
I call it timeless design! "form follows function" in perfection  
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: oMoses on November 16, 2006, 11:54:49 AM
I was fortunate enough to hold Rollei Hy6 and was surprised how well it sits at my hands - the ergonomic (grip including) is almost prefect. Most likely you would be interested in reading this Rolleiflex Hy6 (also Sinar Hy6 & Leaf AFi) - first impressions report (http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00IErf) by Erik de Goederen  from Holland.

The price is not fixed yet but according to my sources at Rollei the camera body will cost under 5000 (in Germany) including tax; availability - April-May 2007.

By the way, the third picture from the top shows Rollei Hy6 with 4.5x6 film magazine from the 6008 integral line. A new direct driven magazine for Hy6 currently is under construction.

On the accessory side, you can use all the accessories of the 6000 system with Hy6. The exception is the standard magazine 6x6, Polaroid magazine, release cables, NiCad-battery, charger and interchangeable finders. Soon Rollei will make a new 90-degree prism finder, very stylish and modern like this one:
(http://www.pbase.com/omoses/image/67673483/original.jpg)
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: charles_m on November 16, 2006, 12:00:19 PM
How will PocketWizard mount onto this camera body? Will it be forced to stick out the side? I fear it accident waiting to happen. It will snap off in middle of job? Made of cheap plastic. Very awkward, to have this design, with side mount. Left hand is focusing, but also hitting PocketWizard too? Is this camera for Tungsten only? Seems like oversight.
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: Graham Mitchell on November 16, 2006, 12:31:21 PM
Charles, the 6000 series has always had the flash mount there. I doubt they would have continued this design for so many years and into the new model if people were finding it problematic. I imagine that the left arm would go under or over the PW. You could also get a short extension lead to avoid the problem.

What is made of cheap plastic?
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: BJNY on November 16, 2006, 12:32:46 PM
Quote
How will PocketWizard mount onto this camera body? Will it be forced to stick out the side? I fear it accident waiting to happen. It will snap off in middle of job? Made of cheap plastic. Very awkward, to have this design, with side mount. Left hand is focusing, but also hitting PocketWizard too? Is this camera for Tungsten only? Seems like oversight.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=85612\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I normally double stick tape my PocketWizards horizontally to the prism when using Hasselblad 503cw or Mamiya RZ67II.
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: william on November 16, 2006, 12:34:18 PM
It'll work fine.  The hotshoe's in the same position as on the 6008 and I never had any problems with that.  If you must have the Pocketwizard/flash in the upright position, there are brackets/adapters that will accommodate that.

Quote
How will PocketWizard mount onto this camera body? Will it be forced to stick out the side? I fear it accident waiting to happen. It will snap off in middle of job? Made of cheap plastic. Very awkward, to have this design, with side mount. Left hand is focusing, but also hitting PocketWizard too? Is this camera for Tungsten only? Seems like oversight.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=85612\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: RicAgu on November 16, 2006, 01:28:20 PM
You can also buy velcro strips and place it on the prism or on the front of the waist level finder.  PW's come with velcro and you just need to buy a small 10ft roll of Velcro to add to other products.  I use it on all of my Profoto power packs.

They make different grades of Velcro and you can buy one that would not allow the pocket wizard to fall off at all.  You have to tear it off.

We've been making adjustments in photography for years.

The camera to me looks great and I am Super PSYCHED about this system.  I'll be one of the first to get  this sytem once it is tested and working properly.

 
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: Kenneth Sky on November 16, 2006, 01:41:31 PM
I stand corrected. After looking at pictures from another angle, two things stand out:
 1) the styling is retro - classic much like a Porsche 911
 2) the handle was rotated to allow it to be photographed sitting flat on a table but can be repositioned at a more comfortable angle for the wrist when using an eye-level viewfinder
That takes care of the ergonomics. What remains to be seen is how well the digital sensors will handle lenses that were designed for film , especially at the edges.
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: Carl Glover on November 16, 2006, 01:53:52 PM
Kenneth,

The lenses are brilliant!

I use a lot of Rollei glass and the eMotion 22 hasn't shown anything nasty at the edges yet...


Carl

www.alephstudio.co.uk
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: BJNY on November 16, 2006, 02:20:56 PM
Quote
lenses that were designed for film

I didn't notice any artifacts or chromatic abberation in the Aptus75 files I captured a couple of months ago when I had to use a 25-30 year old black metal barrel Hasselblad 50mm Zeiss Distagon lens.
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: eronald on November 16, 2006, 02:39:24 PM
Quote
I didn't notice any artifacts or chromatic abberation in the Aptus75 files I captured a couple of months ago when I had to use a 25-30 year old black metal barrel Hasselblad 50mm Zeiss Distagon lens.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=85643\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The combined shutter/diaphragm design is a bit strange. One can just hope the apertures are circular enough to ensure decent bokeh.

Edmund
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: pss on November 16, 2006, 02:42:15 PM
the lenses (especially the schneiders) are better then anything else out there...and they are coming out with a whole new line...there is no system with that many available lenses out there...not even close...
the ergonomics are phantastic..anyone who has ever held a 6008 knows....i just had to shoot with a H2 with the 55-110....whoever designed this camera should be forced to hold it vertical for just 2hours straight....total weight with the lens almost 10pounds, horribly distributed, all held by a smallish grip, you don't know what is worse..holding it grip down and breaking you wrist or letting it hang from your wrist grip up and doing some permanent damage that way....add the mirror slap to it....amazing....i used to get sharp shots handholding a 680GX at 1/15th...with the H2, the 1/125th look a little off....
add to that the 15 lock ups during one afternoon of shooting (grip off, grip on...) and the fact that this camera uses non-rechargeable batteries!!!!! are they nuts?


anyway...i hope the world wakes up and sees that the emperor has no clothes at all...
both contax and mamiya have vastly superiour ergonomics and much simpler, more intuitive controls, the 645afdII better af...combined with excellent glass for both at less then 25% of the price....
the rollei will have no problems taking over from the H1/2/3/4/5 if the (non existend) marketing dept doesn't mess it up....
i mean, a completely new camera that still takes all lenses, finder attachments, even some film backs? and still looks to be the best, most versatile and open digital platform? how can it not succeed?
but i guess judging from the success of the H1, the priorities lie elsewhere...
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: pss on November 16, 2006, 02:45:56 PM
Quote
The combined shutter/diaphragm design is a bit strange. One can just hope the apertures are circular enough to ensure decent bokeh.

Edmund
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=85652\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
how can you even tell from these pics? how do you come up with this stuff?
by the way: a simple solution: why don't you check it out...all the lenses have been available for a while....
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: Graham Mitchell on November 16, 2006, 03:14:32 PM
Here is a sample of Rollei bokeh: http://www.pbase.com/sikario/image/70183437/original.jpg (http://www.pbase.com/sikario/image/70183437/original.jpg)

See this thread: http://oomz.net/mf/viewtopic.php?id=3386 (http://oomz.net/mf/viewtopic.php?id=3386)
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: mkravit on November 16, 2006, 04:14:04 PM
Quote
how can you even tell from these pics? how do you come up with this stuff?
by the way: a simple solution: why don't you check it out...all the lenses have been available for a while....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=85656\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You are correct, I owned these lenses years ago with my 6008AF.
I am truly amazed at some the stuff that is said here.
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: eronald on November 16, 2006, 04:29:18 PM
Quote
how can you even tell from these pics? how do you come up with this stuff?
by the way: a simple solution: why don't you check it out...all the lenses have been available for a while....
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=85656\")

Why should I limit myself to these pics for information ? The Rollei documentation is much more interesting, and as I posted the link floating around fm I assumed you'd seen it.

They seem to have some new technology in the carbon-fiber shutter of the new lenses - see bottom of page 2 of the link I posted earlier.

 [a href=\"http://s_gravesen.perso.libello.com/HY6%20engl..pdf]http://s_gravesen.perso.libello.com/HY6%20engl..pdf[/url]

I have the impression there are some novelties there. Am I right that flash sync speeds are going up compared with the 600x lenses ?

Edmund
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: oMoses on November 16, 2006, 04:30:56 PM
Thank you, pss and foto-z - I completely agree with you on Schneider optics and have nothing to add. It is simply The Best (but expensive   ) lenses ever.
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: pss on November 16, 2006, 04:43:40 PM
Quote
Why should I limit myself to these pics for information ? The Rollei documentation is much more interesting, and as I posted the link floating around fm I assumed you'd seen it.

They seem to have some new technology in the carbon-fiber shutter of the new lenses - see bottom of page 2 of the link I posted earlier.

 http://s_gravesen.perso.libello.com/HY6%20engl..pdf (http://s_gravesen.perso.libello.com/HY6%20engl..pdf)

I have the impression there are some novelties there. Am I right that flash sync speeds are going up compared with the 600x lenses ?

Edmund
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=85678\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
no, you don't have to limit yourself to these pics at all, but if make remarks based on information that is not mentioned, people will wonder....but thanks for answering my question (where you come up with this stuff) i have seen that pdf...
the pic you are referring to has been in every rollei pdf since the 6001 came out, mostly because that shutter is built into all schneider lenses....the lenses are the 180 and the 50, the 180 has been out for 10? years.....
i think it has been mentioned in these forums 100s of times that the PQS lenses synch up to 1/1000 sec....and have for a while....
and in case you missed that info as well (it is only mentioned in every single post and release about this camera), you don't have to compare these lenses to the 600x lenses.....THESE ARE THE 600X LENSES.....
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: oMoses on November 16, 2006, 04:49:01 PM
Edmund,

The internal shutter of Schneider lenses buying you flash sync with incredible speed - up to 1/1000 sec. In general Rollei will optimize the current line of  AF lenses for digital and there will be a "D" behind the lens name. It is planned to deliver these lenses with a black bayonet mount  instead chrome (availability: IV quarter of year 2007). Optimization means a higher resolution.
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: eronald on November 16, 2006, 05:06:21 PM
Quote
Edmund,

The internal shutter of Schneider lenses buying you flash sync with incredible speed - up to 1/1000 sec. In general Rollei will optimize the current line of  AF lenses for digital and there will be a "D" behind the lens name. It is planned to deliver these lenses with a black bayonet mount  instead chrome (availability: IV quarter of year 2007). Optimization means a higher resolution.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=85685\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks for clearing that up for me. I guess no one can complain about a 1/1000 flash synchro being too low, or about the lenses being vaporware  

BTW, I have seen and handled the protos, and my feeling is that a lot of people are going to like this camera very much. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me to see a stampede of guys going for it.

Edmund
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: oMoses on November 16, 2006, 05:13:12 PM
Quote
it wouldn't surprise me to see a stampede of guys going for it.

I hope so!      
I am still not quite understand US situation around Hasselblad while Rollei is obviously better. My only guess is better Hasselblad marketing...
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: david o on November 16, 2006, 06:11:11 PM
considering the poor concurence in MF digital camera, I would go with that one instead of the close H# system...
And I don't really care about the design of the camera itself, just need quality, and the ergonomy seems good enough to me.
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: damien on November 16, 2006, 06:15:57 PM
The Rollie has great lenses if not a bit heavy. I also like my HC glass and I expect that at the end of the day it will be the ergonomics that win users. It's good to see such investment and passion go into this project.

Damien.
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: william on November 16, 2006, 06:51:29 PM
Man, that coffee cup image really has me regretting selling my 6008AF last year.  Maybe I should pick one up and some Velvia...

Quote
Here is a sample of Rollei bokeh: http://www.pbase.com/sikario/image/70183437/original.jpg (http://www.pbase.com/sikario/image/70183437/original.jpg)

See this thread: http://oomz.net/mf/viewtopic.php?id=3386 (http://oomz.net/mf/viewtopic.php?id=3386)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=85661\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: marc gerritsen on November 16, 2006, 07:57:05 PM
I am happy to see that another dmf camera option will be on the market soon. That will only drive all players to be more competive. If that camera was available 5 months ago I might have opted for it, instead went for a H2D with which I have shot close to 10.000 frames and will put that amount on it again probably before the Hy6 will come out.
One thing though.
I would advice you to urge your back/lens/camera manufacturer to come up with good software, since using the new hasselblad lens correction software I have safed so much time and can deliver 100% perfect files. Although I am sure the Rollei lenses are fantastic I have yet to see a lens that has absolutely no barrel distortion.
Hope you have that camera in your hand sooner than later!
Marc
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: BJL on November 17, 2006, 02:38:31 PM
Quote
the lenses (especially the schneiders) are better then anything else out there...and they are coming out with a whole new line...there is no system with that many available lenses out there...not even close...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=85654\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Can you point me to a list of the coming lenses? One thing that stands out to me is Rollei's very slow progress so far on auto-focus lenses (three or four so far?), but maybe now there has been an infusion of capital and Rollei/Schneider will catch up with Fuji/Hasselblad, Mamiya and Pentax for AF MF lenses.
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: pss on November 17, 2006, 02:46:15 PM
the new lenses are jenoptic, i think schneider is coming out with new ones as well......there is plenty in this forum on these new lenses...the jenoptic line was announced just about the same time as the Hy6....the schneiders are coming out slowly, so far there are 50, 80, 180 and 2? zooms....there was a 100macro in the works, but the jenoptic announcement might have shelved that...
as far as i know the jenoptic lenses are 35, 60, 150 (for some reason i think there are 2 150s?) and one more
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: samuel_js on February 05, 2007, 04:58:29 PM
Hi,
will the design update also affect the Hy6 branded Sinar? Also, are they going to be indentical?
I ask this because as we all now, the hy6 labeled Rollei won't be sold in Europe or USA. I will be sold as Sinar, and I personally find the Sinar awful compared to this last Rollei.

SINAR HY6
(http://www.sinarcameras.com/file_uploads/preview/97_0_hy6_vorne.jpg)

ROLLEI HY6
(http://www.pbase.com/omoses/image/70176043/original.jpg)



Thank's
Samuel
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: rethmeier on February 05, 2007, 06:35:28 PM
The Hy6(Sinar) image is still the prototype and the Rollei Hy6 is a more recent version.
In a few more months we will know more about the final result.
Cheers,
Willem.
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: thsinar on May 12, 2007, 09:42:42 AM
The answer is on Sinar's Homepage: www.sinarcameras.com

No red knobs or commands anymore: this was the first prototype.

Thierry

Quote
Hi,
will the design update also affect the Hy6 branded Sinar? Also, are they going to be indentical?
I ask this because as we all now, the hy6 labeled Rollei won't be sold in Europe or USA. I will be sold as Sinar, and I personally find the Sinar awful compared to this last Rollei.

SINAR HY6
(http://www.sinarcameras.com/file_uploads/preview/97_0_hy6_vorne.jpg)

ROLLEI HY6
(http://www.pbase.com/omoses/image/70176043/original.jpg)
Thank's
Samuel
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=99348\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: James Russell on May 12, 2007, 12:01:57 PM
Quote
Thanks for clearing that up for me. I guess no one can complain about a 1/1000 flash synchro being too low, or about the lenses being vaporware 

BTW, I have seen and handled the protos, and my feeling is that a lot of people are going to like this camera very much. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me to see a stampede of guys going for it.

Edmund
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=85690\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Edmund,

I think you really need to define what you mean by the phrase stampede.

If I could buy this camera as a Rolleiflex and IF it would accept my Aptus and Phase backs without upgrade, without modification then maybe.

But that is not the case.  Right now Sinar/Leaf are the only options and when you cost out the price of upgrading or switching brands, plus what it costs to buy a mixture of the new D lenses and the older 6000 series lenses you looking at a lot of cash for a camera that doesn't reallly have a clear agenda.

Is the HY6 a truly universal camera platform or is it just a marketing tool for Leaf and Sinar to sell more backs?  

Does it have full functionality today with the 645 and smaller sensors or will it only really be funcitonal once a square sensor is announced?

The fact the back only rotates by removing it tells me that it's not really there until we see new sensors.

Personally I don't understand why digital has to be so limiting and proprietary.

Why not just buy a camera and then chose your back or multiple backs to fit it?  That worked well with film and was the reason I use the Contax and was originally a big selling point of the Hasselblad.

Now it seems instead of more options, even with the introduction of a new camera, we are given less options.

As far as a "stampede" from Contax and Hasselblad users, I see that more as a trickle at best and even if everyone switched today, that's only a small portion of the market.

What Rollei or whoever makes this camera needs is a true stampede from Canon users and at the current price points and the somewhat vague information on what backs work with this camera, I don't see that happening.

They also need wide acceptance from Phase users, because without that this camera becomes a small niche part of a small niche market, just like the 6008 was.


JR
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: ixpressraf on May 12, 2007, 12:45:49 PM
I dont see why people are still nagging about the closed hasselblad system: there is only one lens that needs the H3 for the moment, the 28mm and for good reasons. For all the rest you can use the H1 or H2 body with all backs you like. But however, the Phase backs are great ( not better then hassies but only a bit different) the apo correction really works extremely well and makes for me hassieback's the better choice.
The Hy6 will be a perfect tool but it will have to be an extreme well designed and perfect functioning camera to come close to the hassie system.
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: pss on May 12, 2007, 01:56:50 PM
Quote
The answer is on Sinar's Homepage: www.sinarcameras.com

No red knobs or commands anymore: this was the first prototype.

Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=0\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

thierry...go to www.sinarbron.com and check out the Hy6 there....someone did not get the memo.....

typical sinar marketing.....unfortunately.....i WANT that camera, but the first thing i thought was too bad they did not change that ugly colorscheme.....
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: samuel_js on May 12, 2007, 03:51:41 PM
Could someone post some real pictures of the camera please?  

Thank's
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: Ben Rubinstein on May 12, 2007, 06:47:33 PM
Quote
I dont see why people are still nagging about the closed hasselblad system: there is only one lens that needs the H3 for the moment, the 28mm and for good reasons. For all the rest you can use the H1 or H2 body with all backs you like. But however, the Phase backs are great ( not better then hassies but only a bit different) the apo correction really works extremely well and makes for me hassieback's the better choice.
The Hy6 will be a perfect tool but it will have to be an extreme well designed and perfect functioning camera to come close to the hassie system.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=117136\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

And when your H2 dies mid shoot? Do they still make them? So it's a possibility for use as an open system just as much as Contax, i.e. until you can't replace it anymore. Not an exciting prospect for a pro photographer who needs backup and rentals...
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: pss on May 12, 2007, 07:31:26 PM
Quote
Could someone post some real pictures of the camera please?  

Thank's
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=0\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


this is just comical....sinar is showing different cameras on different websites....
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: Graham Mitchell on May 12, 2007, 07:57:36 PM
Quote
you looking at a lot of cash for a camera that doesn't reallly have a clear agenda.

what do you mean by no clear agenda?

Quote
Is the HY6 a truly universal camera platform or is it just a marketing tool for Leaf and Sinar to sell more backs?

I think Thierry has made it clear (more than once) that Phase is free to go ahead and make a Hy6 version of the Phase One backs. No-one is stopping them. Same goes for Hasselblad. In that respect the Hy6 is totally open - no-one is locked out. Do you think Hasselblad supplied Sinar with ready-to-go adapters to fit the eMotion backs onto the H series cameras?

Quote
Does it have full functionality today with the 645 and smaller sensors or will it only really be funcitonal once a square sensor is announced?

What functionality could possibly depend on the sensor size?

Quote
The fact the back only rotates by removing it tells me that it's not really there until we see new sensors.

You could always turn the whole camera, as with the Hass H, Contax or Mamiya. Or you have the choice of rotating the back - a choice the others don't give you. Why complain about having more choice?
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: Mort54 on May 12, 2007, 08:27:03 PM
There's a lot to admire about this forum. But the one aspect of it that is just plain childish is all of the brand bashing. It's a sign of insecurity, I think. People defending their choice, and bashing the choices of others, but secretly wondering did they make the right choice. Maybe the cost of these systems has addled everybodies brains :-)

None of the current crop of MF offerings are perfect. Every one of them has it's share of warts. After looking long and hard at all of the current offerings, I ended up going with a P45+ and a Mamiya AFD II system. Is it perfect? NO. Does it have all of the features I want? No, but it has enough of the features I want. Do I like it so far? Yes, very much. But there were aspects of every single system that gave me pause, and other things about each system that I dearly wished would be available in other systems.

I came within a whisker of getting the H3D-39. I would have been very happy with it, and I have no doubts it would have served me well. And I certainly wish I had some aspects of it's control interface on my AFD II. I would have also been perfectly happy with a Hy6. Unfortunately, their schedule didn't match up with my schedule. But I'm sure I would have been well served by it had I waited a little while longer for it. If Contax had still been in production, I might have gone that way. So it goes.

Weigh the pros and cons and select the system that works for you. They'll all do a fine job. And they'll all give you fits at one time or another. But bashing everybody elses choice is just plain childish.

Just my $0.02 worth.
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: thsinar on May 12, 2007, 10:20:57 PM
Paul,

I know and have seen it, that's why I have informed about it.

I am sorry about that, but it is somehow not avoidable, when so many images have been posted everywhere since last Photokina.

Thierry

Quote
thierry...go to www.sinarbron.com and check out the Hy6 there....someone did not get the memo.....

typical sinar marketing.....unfortunately.....i WANT that camera, but the first thing i thought was too bad they did not change that ugly colorscheme.....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=117149\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: thsinar on May 12, 2007, 10:31:51 PM
so it is:

I wonder why the same questions/remarks/critics have not been asked/made when the H system was launched, years back.

It was Sinar (and other manufacturers) who made THEIR adaptations for THEIR backs, without Hasselblad being involved (in the contrary).

The same applies here and there are 2 DIFFERENT things to be looked at:

- the camera project itself: it has been clearly communicated who is the project owner, who is the manufacturer and who is selling this camera. Phase One is out of this process, as well as Hasselblad (obviously).

- the adaptation to this camera: this is another issue. But also here we have clearly commmunicated our position, since the begining and without changing this communication.

Thierry

Quote
I think Thierry has made it clear (more than once) that Phase is free to go ahead and make a Hy6 version of the Phase One backs. No-one is stopping them. Same goes for Hasselblad. In that respect the Hy6 is totally open - no-one is locked out. Do you think Hasselblad supplied Sinar with ready-to-go adapters to fit the eMotion backs onto the H series cameras?

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Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: thsinar on May 12, 2007, 11:15:37 PM
Thanks, for yor always fair and "non-bashing" comments.

Like you, I wish to see and read sometimes a bit more respectful posts, respectful of all persons, choices and brands.

We are all here to learn, to give or to get information, and also a little bit for "fun": not to get bashings.
When I am posting something under my and Sinar's name, it is with the best of my knowledge and the respect of others views. Mistakes happen and we all make mistakes: it should not be used against each other.

Thierry

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There's a lot to admire about this forum. But the one aspect of it that is just plain childish is all of the brand bashing.

Weigh the pros and cons and select the system that works for you. They'll all do a fine job. And they'll all give you fits at one time or another. But bashing everybody elses choice is just plain childish.

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Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: James Russell on May 13, 2007, 12:17:31 PM
We all know medium format is a small market.

Given that, medium format seems to have develeoped into a closed end system, in other words one brand of back for one specific brand of camera.

Hasselblad started it with the H-3 and regardless of claims after Photo East most people know that all future H developement will go to the all in one H camera and H back.

I don't fault Leaf and Sinar for doing the same with the HY6, but as far as more options those options come with a qualifier.  

Where do you buy the Rolliflex version of this camera outside of Russia or Japan and does Sinar sell the camera, lenses only without their digital back, because I have seen no pricing to suggest this?

If you like those brands great, your set, but things change fast in the digital world and what is the favored digital back today can be quickly limiting or problematic tomorrow.

I can list some compelling reasons to own more than one brand of digtial back and unless the camera platform accepts all brands easily, I do believe that is limiting.  

After all in the film days would you buy a AGFA only RZ or a Kodak only V system?

In regards to the cameras functionality, the HY6 has been advertised as a square format, waist level camera from the beginning and though it now shows a prism finder, since it doesn't have a right angle grip like a Canon or Contax, it seems clear that the designed way to change orientation is by rotating the back.

That isn't brand bashing, that's just the information that has been given to us from the start by the manufacturers and from Sinar's own press release they make mention of future square format sensors, so it's just logical to assume that's the intended direction for this camera.

I'm glad this camera is coming to market but would be much happier if Iknew that it was available as a stand alone camera that was sold at a competitive price without a digital back.  Maybe it will be but so far I have yet to see any information regarding this.

Obviously your a fan of Rollei and Sinar and predesposed to be positive towards that brand.

That's your choice and the current business model of digital backs will probably suit you just fine, though I find all of the new medium format offerings to come with an asterick at the bottom of the page which reads, to buy our camera you must buy our back.

That just seems to be the way the industry is headed and once you buy into one brand of digital backs, it's difficult and costly to swtich.  The manufacturer's want you to stay with their brand for your career.  Why else does every  db maker have a schedule to trade in your back (or in hasselblad's case your older H-1) and receive huge discounts for the next model.

I guess that is the reason you see very few modern digital backs for sale on E-bay and I have to assume that this system is in place to protect the db market.

What does Leaf and Hasselblad do with all the used Aptus 17's and H-1's?  They can't really be worth that much to them in parts so I assume it's to keep the resale market closed.

Personally, I'm not a fan of any camera, not to the point of positively pushing that brand.

I use a Contax and obviously have no agenda to spread the Contax word as they are out of business, though I am sure that if they were in business today deals would be in place for their cameras to be proprietary to one or two single brands of backs.

I boght the Contax(s) way before I bought a digital back and at the time could compare and put any of the 4 db makers backs on the camera (actually still can).

Try that with the new H3 or the HY6, buy the camera first and then compare all backs.

For the record I use Contax not for the camera but because of the focal plane design I can and do use a variety of lenses from Pentax, Contax, Hasselblad and Harteblei.

All produce a different look and once again since Contax is out of business there is no agenda to lock any digital back out of their system and other than the Mamiya 645 the Hasselblad and this new Rollei doesn't seem to be headed in the direction of 3rd party lens options.

The bottom line is nobody wants to selll just cameras, that's not where the money is.


JR





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you looking at a lot of cash for a camera that doesn't reallly have a clear agenda.

what do you mean by no clear agenda?

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Is the HY6 a truly universal camera platform or is it just a marketing tool for Leaf and Sinar to sell more backs?

I think Thierry has made it clear (more than once) that Phase is free to go ahead and make a Hy6 version of the Phase One backs. No-one is stopping them. Same goes for Hasselblad. In that respect the Hy6 is totally open - no-one is locked out. Do you think Hasselblad supplied Sinar with ready-to-go adapters to fit the eMotion backs onto the H series cameras?

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Does it have full functionality today with the 645 and smaller sensors or will it only really be funcitonal once a square sensor is announced?

What functionality could possibly depend on the sensor size?

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The fact the back only rotates by removing it tells me that it's not really there until we see new sensors.

You could always turn the whole camera, as with the Hass H, Contax or Mamiya. Or you have the choice of rotating the back - a choice the others don't give you. Why complain about having more choice?
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Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: ixpressraf on May 13, 2007, 12:40:55 PM
The only brand that constantly gets burned down is hasselblad's H system. Mostly based on non realistic information and by people who don't even own one.
The h3 is indeed a closed system, and for good reasons, as is the mamiya ZD. Nevertheless, you can put every back on the H2 or H1 without limitations.
Why do so many people keep on spreading so much nonsens about a completely closed system and constant problems with hassie ?????
I own a hassie H2, contax 645, fuji 680 and mamiya RZ on wich I use my 39CF and 384C back without problems or failures..... day in , day out and they all serve different purposes and they are all wonderfull systems.....
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: Ben Rubinstein on May 13, 2007, 01:32:39 PM
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Nevertheless, you can put every back on the H2 or H1 without limitations.
Why do so many people keep on spreading so much nonsens about a completely closed system and constant problems with hassie ?????[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=117292\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Because as I said earlier, those cameras are no longer current or available. Limitations are when you can't use your P1 back anymore because your H2 died and you can only rent or buy an H3.
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: ixpressraf on May 13, 2007, 01:41:46 PM
Why do peolple keep on spreading this false information, is it because they want to create a hype or worse.... or is it because they simply refuse to accept the facts.
The hasselblad H2 is here with us and will not go away ( at least not without being replaced by a successor wich accepts all different back's).
The hasselblad H2 is still out there in production and will stay!!! Only the H2D is replaced by the H3D wich is quite a wonderfull camera.
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: Dustbak on May 13, 2007, 02:01:05 PM
It is not just one brand that gets bashed. Every DB maker has had flak at one time or another.

What I feel really uncomfortable about is the idea you cannot trust the party you have trusted with your business. DB makers appear to be trying to keep customers locked in by limiting their options.

In every aspect I feel things are implemented or omitted to make it hard for me to switch to another brand.

This is not in my best interest as a photographer, no party has my best interest highest on its agenda.

This is the thing that really worries me about all DB makers. What will be the next thing to block me from more or other options.

Or am I just a bit paranoid and are these things just coincidences?

I much rather stick with vendors because I feel they have my business high on their agenda. It is coming from the other way but just might work as well.
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: pss on May 13, 2007, 02:09:37 PM
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Because as I said earlier, those cameras are no longer current or available. Limitations are when you can't use your P1 back anymore because your H2 died and you can only rent or buy an H3.
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you don't see that his forum's only reason to exist is to bash hasselblad? how dare anyone reporting problems they have with their cameras or lenses.....or that someone is voicing their astonishment that a system that they bought into does not support their back from one day to the next.....

there are a lot of people out there who own H1 or 2s with phase or leaf backs and they are very happy but just like with any system there are problems and i don't see why posting them in a forum like this is bashing.....this is why this forum exists in the first place....people ususally don't spend their days gushing about how great their system is....they come here because something does NOT work.....

go look at the printer forum and look at the threads.....oh no, there is some serious HP bashing going on in there!.....or maybe it is just people having problems, vicing them any trying to work through them and hopefully at some point the manufacturer fixing what is wrong in the first place.....

open and closed systems: the H3D is a completely closed system.....hasselblad says that it has to be in order to build in lens correction in the software....sounds great....hope it works....power to them and everybody who buys into this hoping that they will be able to provide the best solution for the next 2, 4, 6, 10 years...best camera, lenses, backs, software, and all in all best combination of all.......my personal opinion is that they won't be able to do it.....this is based on th experience that it hard enough to build the best camera and lenses, so coming up with the best backs and software on top of it.....i would not (and don't) buy into it.....this has nothing to do with hasselblad....i would not buy into anything like that coming from rollei, mamiya or phase.....

i understand that everybody is trying to sell the back with the camera these days....to make sure that people will buy the next version of the camera and more lenses.....thank god i don't have to....i can pick and choose.....i guess i wish i would really have liked the hasselblad CF solution the best when i did my tests....i would be able to use 6008,H, RZ, 680,...everything....but to me the phase was a better solution...so much better that i gave up shooting with the rollei to shoot phase....i have no regrets at all....i can use my 645 and my RZ and just got a new toy, the lensbaby 3g for my 645afd....

regardless of open or closed, i would never drop everything just to get in line to buy a camera that nobody has shot with yet.....don't get me wrong....the Hy6 looks amazing, if i had unlimited funds i would buy one right away....the emotion back is great....but for me to use it as a tool, it has to prove itself first....problems, technical, mechanical, logistical.....i am sure most of it will be fine, the 6008 is a great camera, so by the time someone makes a phase adapter, i will have to take the plunge....i hope i get at least a year....
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: bradleygibson on May 13, 2007, 02:54:13 PM
Bravo, Mort!  I couldn't agree with you more.

Congratulations on your purchase!  I'm glad it is working for you.  (I've been following in your footsteps, and hope to make my purchase this month.)  As you mentioned, my research is turning up both pluses and minuses with every solution--it's comes down to a matter of which ones each individual prefers to live with.

Best regards,
Brad
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: pprdigital on May 13, 2007, 03:10:48 PM
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open and closed systems: the H3D is a completely closed system.....hasselblad says that it has to be in order to build in lens correction in the software....sounds great....hope it works....power to them and everybody who buys into this hoping that they will be able to provide the best solution for the next 2, 4, 6, 10 years...best camera, lenses, backs, software, and all in all best combination of all.......my personal opinion is that they won't be able to do it.....this is based on th experience that it hard enough to build the best camera and lenses, so coming up with the best backs and software on top of it.....i would not (and don't) buy into it.....this has nothing to do with hasselblad....i would not buy into anything like that coming from rollei, mamiya or phase.....

i understand that everybody is trying to sell the back with the camera these days....to make sure that people will buy the next version of the camera and more lenses.....thank god i don't have to....i can pick and choose.....i guess i wish i would really have liked the hasselblad CF solution the best when i did my tests....i would be able to use 6008,H, RZ, 680,...everything....but to me the phase was a better solution...so much better that i gave up shooting with the rollei to shoot phase....i have no regrets at all....i can use my 645 and my RZ and just got a new toy, the lensbaby 3g for my 645afd....

regardless of open or closed, i would never drop everything just to get in line to buy a camera that nobody has shot with yet.....don't get me wrong....the Hy6 looks amazing, if i had unlimited funds i would buy one right away....the emotion back is great....but for me to use it as a tool, it has to prove itself first....problems, technical, mechanical, logistical.....i am sure most of it will be fine, the 6008 is a great camera, so by the time someone makes a phase adapter, i will have to take the plunge....i hope i get at least a year....
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There's nothing stopping anyone from selling an H3D or H4D down the road and moving into a different system. Traditionally, digital back manufacturers have always made it easier to stay in their family by providing generous upgrade options to loyal users......and thereby making it more expensive to switch out of their brand. This is nothing new with regards to Hasselblad HXD owners, that option will continue to be open to them just as it has been for Sinar, Leaf or Phase owners.

The notion of "closed systems" doesn't hold with me. Is a Leaf Aptus a "closed system". No, it's a digital back that you can put on different cameras, although there are limitations (closed?). For instance, you can't put a Leaf or Phase One digital back on a Contax and a 503CW. Is that "closed"?

What if you don't wish to use your P25 any longer and want to switch? It costs less to stay with Phase. Is that "closed" pressure? I want to use a D2X, but I own a 1DS. Am I being "closed out"?

The old film models no longer apply. Our industry (for better or worse) is moving towards MF Digital Cameras. Hasselblad was there first, Sinar and Leaf are next, Phase very likely trying to be next. Photographers today do indeed have fewer, and more limited options with regard to medium format cameras in terms of taking (an extremely low cost) piece of film and putting it on whatever camera they want. The (digital) film is extremely high cost, and it's just a different world for these companies, and as a result, for us. On the other hand, these MF Digital Cameras - or "closed systems" as some prefer, have shown that they can provide better performance and enhanced features and quality than stand-alone digital backs. Two years from now, after Phase One buys Contax  , the Phontax P55D Camera will be a better product than the P55 Digital Back. It simply won't be quite as versatile.

But you'll still have the option of switching.

Steve Hendrix
Professional PHotographic Resources
www.ppratlanta.com
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: ixpressraf on May 13, 2007, 03:21:42 PM
Thats well spoken Steve! It's simply an economical reality.
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: thsinar on May 13, 2007, 09:59:52 PM
Hi James,

some precisions about the Sinar Hy6 system:

- The system currently allows 2 brands of backs, and that there are more in the future is not Sinar's decision (see my previous explanation).

- Yes, Sinar does sell the camera alone, without back: the prices have been communicated to our distributors already. So YES, it is available from Sinar as a standalone camera, and NO, you must not buy our back.

- I have myself listed here on LLF all the accessories which will be available for this camera system, including the prism finder. It has been "advertised" and showed mostly with a waist level, since this is part of the delivery scope of this camera, when purchased alone, together with battery and its charger.

- I have also said, a few times and here on LLF, that we are currently checking the possibility to have revolving adapters, and that if it is mechanically possible, then we will manufacture and provide them.

Best regards,
Thierry

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Given that, medium format seems to have develeoped into a closed end system, in other words one brand of back for one specific brand of camera.

Where do you buy the Rolliflex version of this camera outside of Russia or Japan and does Sinar sell the camera, lenses only without their digital back, because I have seen no pricing to suggest this?

In regards to the cameras functionality, the HY6 has been advertised as a square format, waist level camera from the beginning and though it now shows a prism finder, since it doesn't have a right angle grip like a Canon or Contax, it seems clear that the designed way to change orientation is by rotating the back.

That isn't brand bashing, that's just the information that has been given to us from the start by the manufacturers and from Sinar's own press release they make mention of future square format sensors, so it's just logical to assume that's the intended direction for this camera.

I'm glad this camera is coming to market but would be much happier if Iknew that it was available as a stand alone camera that was sold at a competitive price without a digital back. Maybe it will be but so far I have yet to see any information regarding this.

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Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: John Camp on May 13, 2007, 10:33:15 PM
There are two different problems involved with buying a high-end digital back: the technical and the business. The technical can be worked out on a camera-by-camera basis. One size doesn't fit all, and after some diligent research, most people can make a decision that they are satisfied with.

The business problem is much murkier. You could make an argument that the Hy6 system, however good it is, is simply too late. Both Canon and Nikon are expected to announce their new high-end models fairly soon, and Nikon is expected to announce a revised line of high-end pro lenses. There are not many photographic problems that can't be solved adequately by these systems, especially after they get past ~20mps, and as their noise control and DR get beter and better. That means that the MF backs are going to become even more of a niche, and under more pressure. Buying an Hy6 -- one body, plus the several necessary lenses and back, will cost what? $45,000-50,000? That's a substantial risk for most people, if there's any possibility at all that the system will fail as a business project. And how many shoots are you going to have that couldn't have been done with a Canon or Nikon for 1/5 the capital cost?

Obviously, there are some people who will need the MF quality -- but enough to support three or four different manufacturers? I don't know. But I wouldn't want to be the guy left holding the bag.

IMHO, James Russell is right: the stampede to the Hy6 is going to be a small stampede, made even smaller by the expansion of the Canon-Nikon duopoly.

Counter-argument: the expensive and not-necessarily most-practical M8 seems to be doing quite well for Leica. Although the money involved is much, much smaller.

JC
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: william on May 21, 2007, 01:21:47 PM
Thierry,

Could you please tell us the actual price in US dollars of the standalone camera (not with the digital back)?  Communicating it to your distributors is one thing, but communicating it to us is another.

Thanks!

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- Yes, Sinar does sell the camera alone, without back: the prices have been communicated to our distributors already. So YES, it is available from Sinar as a standalone camera, and NO, you must not buy our back.

Best regards,
Thierry
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Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: thsinar on May 21, 2007, 08:41:53 PM
Dear William,

I am actually not in position to give this information for the US or other countries: prices vary from one country to another and depending on the local situation.

Then, each distributor is free to set its own price: Sinar does not "force" but only recommend a market price, for the same reasons as above.

All I can give you is the recommended market price as applied in Switzerland = Euro 3'152.- for the body. This prices when ordered separately and without any digital back.

But I would contact our distributor SBI or Matt Lapointe from SBI here on this forum (member "mattlap2"): they will be able and willing to give you any price information.

Best regards,
Thierry

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Thierry,

Could you please tell us the actual price in US dollars of the standalone camera (not with the digital back)? Communicating it to your distributors is one thing, but communicating it to us is another.

Thanks!
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Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: mattlap2 on May 21, 2007, 09:51:07 PM
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Dear William,

I am actually not in position to give this information for the US or other countries: prices vary from one country to another and depending on the local situation.

Then, each distributor is free to set its own price: Sinar does not "force" but only recommend a market price, for the same reasons as above.

All I can give you is the recommended market price as applied in Switzerland = Euro 3'152.- for the body. This prices when ordered separately and without any digital back.

But I would contact our distributor SBI or Matt Lapointe from SBI here on this forum (member "mattlap2"): they will be able and willing to give you any price information.

Best regards,
Thierry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=118919\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

William,

Pricing is being worked on and should be out very shortly.  

Matt LaPointe
Sinar Bron Imaging
National Sales Support Specialist
(219) 670-9905
[email protected]
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: william on May 22, 2007, 09:32:52 AM
Thanks Matt and Thierry.  I look forward to official US pricing info.

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William,

Pricing is being worked on and should be out very shortly. 

Matt LaPointe
Sinar Bron Imaging
National Sales Support Specialist
(219) 670-9905
[email protected]
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Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: vgogolak on May 23, 2007, 10:24:06 PM
It is interesting; looks like a Contax with an H series handle. Promise of good glass. Don't know that I would find any reason to switch from Contax, but certainly not if it doesnt have a Phase back.

Any word on that. (and with my 65 year old eyes, I apologize I havent tried to read all the posts!)

regards
Victor
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: thsinar on May 24, 2007, 12:17:27 AM
Dear Victor,

FYI: the Sinar Hy6 handle and grip is quite different than the one of the H series. The weight distribution and the hold-feeling are completely different. I would recommend you to test both cameras and hold them in your hand, side-by-side, to make a comparison.

Best regards,
Thierry

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It is interesting; looks like a Contax with an H series handle. Promise of good glass. Don't know that I would find any reason to switch from Contax, but certainly not if it doesnt have a Phase back.

Any word on that. (and with my 65 year old eyes, I apologize I havent tried to read all the posts!)

regards
Victor
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Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: Khun_K on May 24, 2007, 02:30:26 AM
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Dear Victor,

FYI: the Sinar Hy6 handle and grip is quite different than the one of the H series. The weight distribution and the hold-feeling are completely different. I would recommend you to test both cameras and hold them in your hand, side-by-side, to make a comparison.

Best regards,
Thierry
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I have both Contax (with or without extra battery grip) with P45 and H3D39 and they are totally different. With Contax, the handle is a structure of the camera while on H3D39 it is a moveable part (the battery itself) so I will vote without doubt the Contax gives much more confidence when you hold and shoot the camera, and its ergonomic is simply superior. The H3D39 battery grip is designed with an angle only comfortable when you are actually shooting, not when you carry the camera - when you are not shooting. It gets worse when you consider usually H lenses are bulky and heavy.
On the other hand, I also have the old 6008 Professional with the rotational handle grip, and because it has very good locking mechanical and able to change its angle to get better gripping, is also a better grip than the modern H3D39. I hope the Hy6 grip is equal or an improvement over the 6008 Pro and if it is, I will without doubt think it is better grip than H system.
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: vgogolak on May 24, 2007, 07:36:00 AM
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I have both Contax (with or without extra battery grip) with P45 and H3D39 and they are totally different. With Contax, the handle is a structure of the camera while on H3D39 it is a moveable part (the battery itself) so I will vote without doubt the Contax gives much more confidence when you hold and shoot the camera, and its ergonomic is simply superior. The H3D39 battery grip is designed with an angle only comfortable when you are actually shooting, not when you carry the camera - when you are not shooting. It gets worse when you consider usually H lenses are bulky and heavy.
On the other hand, I also have the old 6008 Professional with the rotational handle grip, and because it has very good locking mechanical and able to change its angle to get better gripping, is also a better grip than the modern H3D39. I hope the Hy6 grip is equal or an improvement over the 6008 Pro and if it is, I will without doubt think it is better grip than H system.
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Thank you for the feedback. I have enjoyed the Contax system for years, and I hsvr both finders (not the new $800 WLF, but the original $300 one  :-) )

I have found both comfortable, esp. as you say the Contax is very 'confident' in the hand

Abd one other feature; it is heavy but SMALL. It is actually a smaller feel on my hand than an old Kodak SLR/c that I assume feels like many larger digital Nikon/Canon SLRs.

I do see the enthusiasm of the the crowd for the new Rollei/H6y. However, as pointed out above can you use

Contax
V series glass
Pentax ANNNDDD!
LEICA

I have recently tested older Visoflex SM (L39) lenses with the Contax/P45 and the image circle is 6x7

I think the short registry difference of Contax (64mm) opens to a whole world of glass that Hassy and Rolly miss out on

But I must say, this system, IFF, and that is big IF, it has access for the Phase backs seems to be thinking right,

Is that still an open issue? the Phase backs???

regards
Victor
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: thsinar on May 24, 2007, 09:30:04 AM
Dear Victor,

let's move on concerning this issue as well: it is still an open issue in that that it has to be answered not by Sinar/Jenoptik, but by the interested people/companies, in ther words by the manufacturer you mention below.

This has been discussed and answered so many times here.

Thanks and best regards,
Thierry

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But I must say, this system, IFF, and that is big IF, it has access for the Phase backs seems to be thinking right,

Is that still an open issue? the Phase backs???

regards
Victor
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Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: edwinb on November 26, 2008, 02:21:20 PM
Quote from: vgogolak
Thank you for the feedback. I have enjoyed the Contax system for years, and I hsvr both finders (not the new $800 WLF, but the original $300 one  :-) )

I have found both comfortable, esp. as you say the Contax is very 'confident' in the hand

Abd one other feature; it is heavy but SMALL. It is actually a smaller feel on my hand than an old Kodak SLR/c that I assume feels like many larger digital Nikon/Canon SLRs.

I do see the enthusiasm of the the crowd for the new Rollei/H6y. However, as pointed out above can you use

Contax
V series glass
Pentax ANNNDDD!
LEICA

I have recently tested older Visoflex SM (L39) lenses with the Contax/P45 and the image circle is 6x7

I think the short registry difference of Contax (64mm) opens to a whole world of glass that Hassy and Rolly miss out on

But I must say, this system, IFF, and that is big IF, it has access for the Phase backs seems to be thinking right,

Is that still an open issue? the Phase backs???

regards
Victor
Title: Rollei Hy6: final design update
Post by: EricWHiss on November 26, 2008, 03:47:26 PM
Wow this is an old thread!  I got fooled into thinking there was a new version of the Hy6!