Luminous Landscape Forum

Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: BradH on October 20, 2006, 01:52:57 pm

Title: ipf5000 output quality
Post by: BradH on October 20, 2006, 01:52:57 pm
Several of the early reviews mention grainy output.
The Inkjet art people initially mentioned it then recinded, but their scan from various printer output still shows noticable grain to my eye.

InkJetArt link (http://www.inkjetart.com/canon/wide/iPF5000.html)

I also went to the local store and had them print a few my own photos, and I can clearly see grain that I don't see on my Epson prints.

Yet, Michael says there is none after doing a head-alignment.  Although in the InkJetArt review they said they had done a head-alignment.

What are you ipf5000 owners seeing?


I'm sick of Epson clogging problems, and would like to change brands, but I'm concerned about the Canon output.  I've ruled out HP because of their ridiculously high ink costs of the 9810.
Title: ipf5000 output quality
Post by: BradH on October 20, 2006, 01:58:21 pm
And i'm not talking about looking at it with a magnifying glass or anything.  I'm talking about viewing a couple of feet away.
Title: ipf5000 output quality
Post by: michael on October 20, 2006, 02:16:46 pm
No dots. iPF5000 image quality is every bit as good in this regard as that from the Epson 4800.

The Inkjetart review is old news.

Michael
Title: ipf5000 output quality
Post by: Archimago on October 20, 2006, 02:53:11 pm
Hi,

I am new to this forum and have been following some threads for a couple of weeks.

I am an architect, doing visualisations. I have used since 1998 an Epson Stylus Pro 5000, which died on me 3 weeks ago.

I was planning to replace the machine next year, since it died I will replace it a bit earlier.

As many of you I am looking at about 4 to 7 possible replacements:


A3+ sizes
1. Epson 3800
2. HP 9180

A2  sizes
3. Epson 4800
4. Canon IPF5000

A1 sizes
5. Epson 7800
6. HP Z2100 24 inch
7. HP Z3100 24 inch

For my budget I think A2 sizes are what I can afford, only A1 maybe I could afford is the HP Z2100.

Concerning the Epson 4800/7800 the Black ink problem is a major issue to me as I often swith from matte paper to glossy. I need both in one printer. Adding the Imageprint RIP is to cost expensive compared to going for othe rmachines.

However I was always very pleased about the output quality of Epson machines despite paperhandling problems, poor drivers, controller errors, print head problems. The final prints I needed where always very good, I also did larger prints on Epson 9800 outside of my office mostly on matte papers.



To me for my budget only 3 options seem available:


1. Canon IPF 5000

I am very seduced by the Canon IPF5000, but ....

Are the images really up to par in sharpness, color, saturation, etc... to the Epson 4800 ?

Are the standard papers from Canon also good ???


2. Epson 3800

If the canon is not up to par with Epson 4800 then  I tend to lean to the new Epson 3800, however I would loose A2 and the roll option ? I would be left mainly with what I had with my Epson 5000, only faster and better quality.

Will the Epson 3800 be better in quality then the 4800 or is this just marketing hype by Epson ???


3. HP Z2100

The other option would be the HP Z2100 24 inch standard version.

Advantage would be larger size, however I am very weary of print quality, why ?

I have test prints from HP 130 and 90 and they are not up to par even with my Epson 5000 in some areas, oversaturated blues etc...


What would you do ???

Still I like the Canon ?

What would you buy:
Epson 3800, Canon IPF5000 or HP Z2100

Christophe from Belgium
Title: ipf5000 output quality
Post by: SKinsey on October 20, 2006, 05:25:38 pm
To my eyes .. no dots and very smooth tonal transitions.  

I've just recently (this week) purchased the IPF5000 and in the process of doing some testing.  So far I am extremely pleased with the output.  As far as the head alignment story, Canon must have listened to someone as it was part of the automated installation proceedure with my machine.

The user interface is a little confusing at times and having to set paper types twice is a little of a bother, however the images I'm producing are no less than I would expect from a "Canon" product.

The bottom line is that I decided on this printer because 1) no fussing with changing photo and matte black inks, 2) the 12 ink system - I'm not seeing my shadows block up any more, and 3) since I am not an everyday printer, I hate dealing with clogs, I was looking for a printer that could sit for a while and not throw a fit, but we'll have to see about that as I've been testing every day so far.

One thing I did see today was some bronzing on some Ilford Smooth Pearl, but it's not a big concern to me as I generally print my B/W's on matte papers.

Good luck
Title: ipf5000 output quality
Post by: Gary Damaskos on October 20, 2006, 05:55:04 pm
Had the iPF5000 since June. At that time is was difficult for me to acquire Canon papers, so I just used Epsons. That as been no problem that I can recongnize. The gamuts are sooo much wider than even the old SC3000 with dye inks in it that I feel blessed. In fact I have to be careful about cranking up the color and saturation too much - because the printer can handle it. Most of the use issues seem actually minor and in the category of 'getting a new complex whatever' that forces me to learn some new protocols, when once learned - no real problem, at worst annoyance. Some people on the list have had some real problems with annoyances I have noticed, so I guess they will stay with Epson or move to HP (like that will perfect - not likely).  As you must realize going from glossy to matte can be done literally instantaneously. Very much appreciated. I do feel those who do not create their own profiles, that generally the supplied profiles are likely to very satsifactory to the majority of users, and then there will be those that go ballistic who really should buy an HP or a profile creator I suspect. In summary - this has been a great 4 months with this printer. I have left it off for up to maybe a week ( I hope not, but may have) and though I do not yet know how much ink clearing takes, I do know that I have only replaced 2 cartridges so far, and I have done a lot of 16x20 and 8x10s, from my subjective view, it is pretty good on ink use - which others have reported also as good. And no I cannot see dots, do not understand what they did to come up with that - other than feed the printer a file from a scan or picture that was tuned for say matte/art paper and then printed it on gloss and voila - so much more detail shows they think the "grain" is the printer when it is indeed the file used. I have experienced exactly that and when I either rescanned or cleaned up the file, the print from the Canon was as smooth as I imagine it ever needs to be. Good luck in any case with your process.
Gary

quote=Archimago,Oct 20 2006, 11:53 AM]
Hi,

I am new to this forum and have been following some threads for a couple of weeks.

I am an architect, doing visualisations. I have used since 1998 an Epson Stylus Pro 5000, which died on me 3 weeks ago.

I was planning to replace the machine next year, since it died I will replace it a bit earlier.

As many of you I am looking at about 4 to 7 possible replacements:
A3+ sizes
1. Epson 3800
2. HP 9180

A2  sizes
3. Epson 4800
4. Canon IPF5000

A1 sizes
5. Epson 7800
6. HP Z2100 24 inch
7. HP Z3100 24 inch

For my budget I think A2 sizes are what I can afford, only A1 maybe I could afford is the HP Z2100.

Concerning the Epson 4800/7800 the Black ink problem is a major issue to me as I often swith from matte paper to glossy. I need both in one printer. Adding the Imageprint RIP is to cost expensive compared to going for othe rmachines.

However I was always very pleased about the output quality of Epson machines despite paperhandling problems, poor drivers, controller errors, print head problems. The final prints I needed where always very good, I also did larger prints on Epson 9800 outside of my office mostly on matte papers.
To me for my budget only 3 options seem available:
1. Canon IPF 5000

I am very seduced by the Canon IPF5000, but ....

Are the images really up to par in sharpness, color, saturation, etc... to the Epson 4800 ?

Are the standard papers from Canon also good ???
2. Epson 3800

If the canon is not up to par with Epson 4800 then  I tend to lean to the new Epson 3800, however I would loose A2 and the roll option ? I would be left mainly with what I had with my Epson 5000, only faster and better quality.

Will the Epson 3800 be better in quality then the 4800 or is this just marketing hype by Epson ???
3. HP Z2100

The other option would be the HP Z2100 24 inch standard version.

Advantage would be larger size, however I am very weary of print quality, why ?

I have test prints from HP 130 and 90 and they are not up to par even with my Epson 5000 in some areas, oversaturated blues etc...
What would you do ???

Still I like the Canon ?

What would you buy:
Epson 3800, Canon IPF5000 or HP Z2100

Christophe from Belgium
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=81391\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
[/quote]
Title: ipf5000 output quality
Post by: rmarien on October 20, 2006, 06:31:40 pm
I have had the ipf 5000 since July. I use it to print 10-20 prints a week, often going 4-5 days between sessions. The ability to switch between matte and glossy, pearl at will has been great. It allows you to pick the best paper for the given picture and to try out different papers one after the other.

I have not seen any dots. The output has been superb using the supplied profiles on canon paper and with the ilford profiles on smooth pearl.

Bob
Title: ipf5000 output quality
Post by: jclacherty on October 21, 2006, 01:52:18 am
Quote
If the canon is not up to par with Epson 4800 then  I tend to lean to the new Epson 3800, however I would loose A2 and the roll option ? I would be left mainly with what I had with my Epson 5000, only faster and better quality.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=81391\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The 3800 is an A2 printer, just missing the roll option.

Justin.
Title: ipf5000 output quality
Post by: Archimago on October 21, 2006, 03:29:54 am
--- The 3800 is an A2 printer, just missing the roll option. ---

You are right, however I find it nice to print easily longer then A2 with a roll.

BTW 17inch by 22 inch is shorter then A2 which I find annoying. Meaning I have to use self precut sheets on the epson 3800 if I need exactly A2, which I often do.

Thanks everyone for your feedback

I am more an more leaning to the Canon IPF5000, instead of the epson 3800 or 4800 for a couple of reasons just one more questions.

Which RIP software currently already supports the Canon ?

Christophe
Title: ipf5000 output quality
Post by: neil snape on October 21, 2006, 03:46:57 am
One advantage of the Z printers is the ability to add the HPGL2 CAD upgrade which let's you use the printer in both CAD apps, and photographic, and prepress printing all with the same printer.
The Canon is not as good at CAD printing as the HP.
Title: ipf5000 output quality
Post by: wilsonrob on October 21, 2006, 06:15:02 am
Quote
--- The 3800 is an A2 printer, just missing the roll option. ---

You are right, however I find it nice to print easily longer then A2 with a roll.

BTW 17inch by 22 inch is shorter then A2 which I find annoying. Meaning I have to use self precut sheets on the epson 3800 if I need exactly A2, which I often do.

Christophe
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=81474\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


The 3800 will print to 37 inchesif you use a custompaper size. The Japanese version states that it will print A2 borderless.  As for longer than the 37 inches which EPSON has stated, we will need to see if there is a banner or roll setting in the driver. My R800 has a roll setting despite not having a roll feeder or a rear slot for long paper.

If there is such a setting then QIMAGE will print to any length of cut paper.

I am thinking of getting the 3800 because I do not have the room for either the 4800 or the Canon.
Title: ipf5000 output quality
Post by: Archimago on October 21, 2006, 07:57:39 am
Quote
One advantage of the Z printers is the ability to add the HPGL2 CAD upgrade which let's you use the printer in both CAD apps, and photographic, and prepress printing all with the same printer.
The Canon is not as good at CAD printing as the HP.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=81475\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: ipf5000 output quality
Post by: Archimago on October 21, 2006, 08:10:39 am
Yeah I know that the HP has the HPGL2 option, and I looked at that.

However I have an OCE 5250 as my main colour-CAD printer A0 whith HPGL2 support, good machine for a CAD printer, and good speed for an inkjet, compared to more expensive B&W lasers from OCE.

I would like to use the Canon or Epson also as a printer for showing clients predesigns before going to a larger scale. I did that with my Espon 5000 and although the machine had no HPGL2, I still could make good prints for that purpose out of Autodesk Architectural Desktop without a problem, using the standard windows driver.

I expect that to be possible wih the Canon and any Epson, unless someone else says differently ?
Title: ipf5000 output quality
Post by: ericaro on October 21, 2006, 02:30:12 pm
Have been using IPF 5000 for 2 months .NO grain whatsoever( I have no clue what the inkjet art poeple were looking at) and the output is suberb on the papers I use: han rag, entrada natural,han pearl, museo silver rag. Just stunning!
                         Louis Bouillon
Title: ipf5000 output quality
Post by: K.C. on October 21, 2006, 08:00:14 pm
Quote
I have no clue what the inkjet art poeple were looking at…

If you read their site it's pretty clear that they're more interested in selling Epson printers.
Title: ipf5000 output quality
Post by: David White on October 22, 2006, 01:21:22 am
I've been an owner since late June.  No dots, no clogging and no switching ink when switching papers.  I've been making my own profiles and they are definitely larger than the supplied profiles.  It makes beautiful prints.  I never even think about the interface anymore.  The ability to switch seamlessly between the roll feeder is a real plus since I use both interchangeably.
Title: ipf5000 output quality
Post by: mcfoto on October 22, 2006, 02:50:15 am
Quote
Several of the early reviews mention grainy output.
The Inkjet art people initially mentioned it then recinded, but their scan from various printer output still shows noticable grain to my eye.

InkJetArt link (http://www.inkjetart.com/canon/wide/iPF5000.html)

I also went to the local store and had them print a few my own photos, and I can clearly see grain that I don't see on my Epson prints.

Yet, Michael says there is none after doing a head-alignment.  Although in the InkJetArt review they said they had done a head-alignment.

What are you ipf5000 owners seeing?
I'm sick of Epson clogging problems, and would like to change brands, but I'm concerned about the Canon output.  I've ruled out HP because of their ridiculously high ink costs of the 9810.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=81378\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
[QUOT

Hi
We are using the Canon iPF5000 with a Quato monitor and are loving it. we just did some B&W prints for a friend today and it was easy. Great printer!!!!!
Thanks Denis
Title: ipf5000 output quality
Post by: K.C. on October 22, 2006, 06:24:20 am
Have anyone compared a print from a 2200 with IP to the iPF5000 ?
Title: ipf5000 output quality
Post by: tbonanno on October 22, 2006, 08:00:42 pm
Quote from: BradH,Oct 20 2006, 11:52 AM
Several of the early reviews mention grainy output.
The Inkjet art people initially mentioned it then recinded, but their scan from various printer output still shows noticable grain to my eye.

Brad,

I've been using the 5000 since Aug 2nd.  Everything that other posters mention in this thread seem to be on target.  I've gone through 4 "starter" ink cartridges so far, which seems to be reasonably economical ink usage considering how much I've been printing.  NO clogs whatsoever.   I've been out of the country for a couple of weeks on assignment, but I would bet money that when I return to the studio, the printer will crank out prints with no need for nozzle cleanings or anything else..  No way could I say that about any Epson I've had.

Regarding the dots.  Under "magnification", there appears to be a "grainier" dithering pattern with the iPF5000 compared to the Epsons and I suspect that is what some of the pixel peepers are referring to.  To be honest, if I blow up my files to 100% on a 21" screen, what I see on the screen appears to be closer to the Canon output than the Epson output.  It's almost as if the Epson "smooths" the transitions somewhat.  

Anyway, unless you using using stacked pairs of reading glasses at 8 inches, I don't think you'll have any complaints about "graininess".

Tony Bonanno
Title: ipf5000 output quality
Post by: Dale Allyn on October 22, 2006, 11:53:12 pm
Hello,

I've enjoyed reading here in this forum for a long time, and finally registered so I could post. I really appreciate the flow of information in this forum and appreciate everyone returning to report their updated findings.

Quote
but I would bet money that when I return to the studio, the printer will crank out prints with no need for nozzle cleanings or anything else.. 

Tony Bonanno
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=81666\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Tony: it would be VERY helpful to hear of your experience upon returning to your studio regarding clogging. I travel outside the U.S. (I live in the U.S.) for extended periods and am hoping that the iPF 5000 will handle the clogging much better than Epsons. I can have someone print a page now and then, but this is not always convenient, as you probably know.

The "dots" issue, or lack of apparent continuous tone, has been troubling to me and I'm glad to hear that with proper workflow this may not be a real issue. I'm looking at adding the Canon iPF 5000, but I'm also looking at the HP 9180 + one of the Z series model. My thinking is that I can get by with the 5000 while the Z3100 is being refined, or I learn that the z2100 is right for me. I've ordered sample prints from HP, but have never received them. Waiting for HP to look in to it.

This is a frustrating time to be buying printers because so many (possibly) great options are just on the horizon. Epson's clogging and ink swapping is a deal breaker for me, but HP and Canon seem to be raising the bar which will certainly push Epson too.

Tony, please do post back when you return to your printer after your trip. It would be so very helpful to learn from your experience.

Regards, Dale
Title: ipf5000 output quality
Post by: neil snape on October 23, 2006, 03:25:45 am
The print samples I have from the recent, not the first prototypes 5000 are absolutely grain free at viewing distances the prints are made for. In fact I find them too smooth, lacking of bite compared to Epson or HP.
Title: ipf5000 output quality
Post by: Dale Allyn on October 23, 2006, 03:39:52 am
Quote
The print samples I have from the recent, not the first prototypes 5000 are absolutely grain free at viewing distances the prints are made for. In fact I find them too smooth, lacking of bite compared to Epson or HP.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=81715\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thank you for the additional input, Neil. I'm looking forward to receiving my sample prints. I've not heard this remark of the Canon iPF 5000 before. I've ordered a sample from InkjetArt from the Canon and hope that it's a useful sample.
Title: ipf5000 output quality
Post by: Gary Damaskos on October 23, 2006, 12:59:39 pm
Did you bother to tune the file for the printer? I mean statments like this suggest that the file has nothing to do with the print, or that different printers actually do not require (minor?) adjustments to accomodate the uniqueness of that model /brand printer (but they do). Or am I to believe (which I do not) that the Epson produces more bite than a Canon period. Education not promotion please, even if that was not your intention. I do not mean to pick on you - but folks, the file matters, and even changing papers within the same printer means changing your profile, or your sharpenss, etc... if you care about maximizing the result towards what you want (and of course most  of you do). So things are not so Black and White (between color printers output).
rant over
Gary


Quote
The print samples I have from the recent, not the first prototypes 5000 are absolutely grain free at viewing distances the prints are made for. In fact I find them too smooth, lacking of bite compared to Epson or HP.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=81715\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: ipf5000 output quality
Post by: K.C. on October 24, 2006, 03:00:19 am
Quote
The print samples I have from the recent, not the first prototypes 5000 are absolutely grain free at viewing distances the prints are made for. In fact I find them too smooth, lacking of bite compared to Epson or HP.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=81715\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Sounds like a Tri-X versus Plus-X preference to me.

Without any real information on the images, and a side-by-side comparison with an Epson print, your statement really says little if anything.

(Personally I prefer HP5   )
Title: ipf5000 output quality
Post by: tbonanno on October 24, 2006, 03:20:08 am
Quote
Tony, please do post back when you return to your printer after your trip. It would be so very helpful to learn from your experience.

Regards, Dale
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=81696\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi Dale,

I'll be back in Santa Fe on Oct. 27th.  Will crank up the iPF5000 and report my findings regarding any need to do a nozzle cleaning, etc.

Tony
Title: ipf5000 output quality
Post by: tonywh on October 24, 2006, 08:17:26 am
Had the printer since june and are well into the second set, no grain problems. We are also away for a upto a week and sometimes the printer is left on or turned of. On returning I just print without thinking about it. When we first got the the printer we printed a 24x16 as a test, straight of the printer on kodak paper which was seen by a master printer of 35 yrs standing. He was knocked out about the quality and that inkjet printers could do that level of work.

tony
Title: ipf5000 output quality
Post by: michael on October 24, 2006, 08:26:21 am
I've had an iPF5000 and an Epson 4800 sitting next to each other in my office for the past 4 months. I have used them both intermittently on different printing assignments and can say that to my eye output is essentially identical, without a direct side-by-side comparison.

When such a comparison is carefully done the only difference that I can see is that the Canon shows somewhat wider gamut (easily also seen as well in a profile gamut comparison on ColorThink).

This conclusion was reinforced when a half dozen of the industries leading experts on inkjet printing (including some who are firmly in the Epson "camp") spent a couple of hours at my place a while back, shortly after the 5000 was announced. We pixel peeped for about an hour, on prints done with different substrates, and we all pretty much agreed with the conclusion that I just wrote above.

Over these four months I have made many hundreds of prints, and never had a head clog. The printer is left on all the time (even when I am away travelling) and once a day it runs a brief self-check cleaning cycle. This is recommended by Canon as the best way to treat the printer. Ink wastage from this is unmeasurable.

In that same time the 4800 has clocged a couple of times and I've had to run cleaning cycles that do use a fair amount of ink. No really serious clogs though that require a power cleaning.

My bottom line is that for anyone needing a 17" desktop printer the Epson 5000 is the best choice, but. The but is that the documentation is truely dreadful, and the printer is a nag, requiring that you set both the front panel and the driver with the same information when changing papers, and if you don't get it just right, it either nags or refuses to print.

This will change in a few weeks when one of the major RIP makers announces their product for the 5000, and one will be able to comopletely bypass the Canon firmware and driver.

Michael

Ps: I have recently sold my Epson 4800, as the Canon 5000 does the same job, just somewhat better.
Title: ipf5000 output quality
Post by: Tim Gray on October 24, 2006, 08:38:10 am
Quote
My bottom line is that for anyone needing a 17" desktop printer the Epson 5000 is the best choice, but. The but is that the documentation is truely dreadful, and the printer is a nag, requiring that you set both the front panel and the driver with the same information when changing papers, and if you don't get it just right, it either nags or refuses to print.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=81952\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'm sure the reference to Epson in this paragraph is just a "senior's moment".  
Title: ipf5000 output quality
Post by: photographist on October 24, 2006, 08:53:35 am
Quote
I'm sure the reference to Epson in this paragraph is just a "senior's moment". 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=81957\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

It's the sprit of Epsons past that are out to befuddle him......
Title: ipf5000 output quality
Post by: ronno on October 24, 2006, 08:54:17 am
Quote
I can see is that the Canon shows somewhat wider gamut (easily also seen as well in a profile gamut comparison on ColorThink).

..................


My bottom line is that for anyone needing a 17" desktop printer the Epson 5000 is the best choice, but. The but is that the documentation is truely dreadful, and the printer is a nag, requiring that you set both the front panel and the driver with the same information when changing papers, and if you don't get it just right, it either nags or refuses to print.

.................

Ps: I have recently sold my Epson 4800, as the Canon 5000 does the same job, just somewhat better.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=81952\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Michael, how specifically does the wider gamut show itself in the prints you have made?

Thanks.
-ron
Title: ipf5000 output quality
Post by: michael on October 24, 2006, 12:30:40 pm
Senior moment. Who me?

The wider gamut is most obviously seen in the blues, where there is much less of a cyan cast than seen with Epsons. The 12 inks addition of Red. Blue, and Green inks does make a difference, but its most visible in the blues.

Michael
Title: ipf5000 output quality
Post by: bjanes on October 24, 2006, 03:12:33 pm
Quote
Senior moment. Who me?

The wider gamut is most obviously seen in the blues, where there is much less of a cyan cast than seen with Epsons. The 12 inks addition of Red. Blue, and Green inks does make a difference, but its most visible in the blues.

Michael
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=82004\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Michael,

It is a bit perplexing that you say that the Epson is the best choice but that you have sold yours and are apparently using the Canon.

Bill
Title: ipf5000 output quality
Post by: DarkPenguin on October 24, 2006, 03:14:40 pm
Quote
Michael,

It is a bit perplexing that you say that the Epson is the best choice but that you have sold yours and are apparently using the Canon.

Bill
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=82041\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

He said the "Epson 5000" meaning the "Canon 5000" and not the "Epson 4800".  That would be the "senior moment" mentioned above.
Title: ipf5000 output quality
Post by: jonreid on October 24, 2006, 03:36:18 pm
I have been using the ipf5000 for the last couple of months to print photobooks.  I also have an Epson R2400 and while the Epson is slightly sharper (when you look close), the Canon gives the better overall image quality for my application.

I was not present when my ipf5000 was installed but I believe a auto-head adjustment was run then.  However I recently did a manual adjustment and this has reduced the 'grain' slightly - most people would not see the difference.  I am not sure if the improvement is because doing it by eye is more accurate or whether the original auto-alignment was done on a different paper ?

Overall the 5000 is my best option at the moment, the only issue I have is that it has very visible banding in the trailing edge when printing on sheets unless you run on the highest resolution (slow).  I am hoping this is something Canon will fix with a firmware upgrade........?
Title: ipf5000 output quality
Post by: David White on October 24, 2006, 08:06:59 pm
Quote
I am not sure if the improvement is because doing it by eye is more accurate or whether the original auto-alignment was done on a different paper ?
I am hoping this is
Overall the 5000 is my best option at the moment, the only issue I have is that it has very visible banding in the trailing edge when printing on sheets unless you run on the highest resolution (slow).
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=82048\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I believe that the recommendation to to load up the printer with the paper that you will be normally printing on for the head alignment procedure.  I print on a variety of papers and haven't noticed any differences in quality between one paper and another.

I've never seen the banding issue.
Title: ipf5000 output quality
Post by: jonreid on October 24, 2006, 08:18:41 pm
Quote
I've never seen the banding issue.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=82112\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

What version of firmware do you have in your ipf5000 ?  I have seen the banding issue on more than one printer locally so I know it is not just mine.

The local Canon distributor has acknowledged the problem but has no idea how to fix it so have just escalated it up the chain.

I wonder if we have an older firmware version ??
Title: ipf5000 output quality
Post by: serf on October 24, 2006, 08:34:05 pm
I've been using the iPF5000 for a few weeks, coming from an Epson 2200 as a novice, more or less.  The print output is excellent.  I printed a reference image from Calumet's Brilliant paper web page using the posted profile, and the print was awesome.  But there are problems already mentioned above which I won't repeat.  Some additional issues/questions:

1.  I simultaneously switched to a Mac Pro (because my XP died & I had heard Mac is a great environment for graphics) only to find that the Canon driver does not work on Intel Macs (only the Photoshop Plug-In works on Intel Macs).  I'm not aware of a current correction or work around, until if/when Canon issues a driver update (or ColorByte issues a new version supporting iPF5000).

2.  The printer frequently reports that the magenta cartridge is not present, when it is present.  This requires opening the lid, pulling the cartridge & reinserting, which results (so far) in re-recognition.  I don't know, yet, if this is just a bad cartridge.  I'll try ordering a replacement or calling Canon support.

3.  Can you get spare spindles for roll paper?  If so, where?

4.  I had banding at the tail 1/2 inch of prints, called Canon support and they had me run, as I recall, a nozzle check & either that or adjusting to a different paper type, which I also did, cured the problem.
Title: ipf5000 output quality
Post by: chickman on October 24, 2006, 08:50:11 pm
I had the problem with grain when I first got my printer.  After performing the head allignment the problem went away and the output looks great.
Title: ipf5000 output quality
Post by: tbonanno on October 31, 2006, 08:58:41 pm
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Tony, please do post back when you return to your printer after your trip. It would be so very helpful to learn from your experience.

Regards, Dale
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HI Dale,

Just returned from my trip..  Printer not used for more than two weeks.  Powered it up and it did some kind of cleaning exercise on its own.  Did a nozzle check.. Perfect.. Made some prints 11x14 and 13x19 cut sheet and some 16" canvas roll.. all prints looked great.  No nozzle issues at all.  Makes me smile   .

Tony
Title: ipf5000 output quality
Post by: K.C. on October 31, 2006, 11:08:13 pm
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Printer not used for more than two weeks.  Powered it up and it did some kind of cleaning exercise on its own.  Did a nozzle check.. Perfect.. Made some prints 11x14 and 13x19 cut sheet and some 16" canvas roll.. all prints looked great.  No nozzle issues at all.

As a professional printer should work.

Now if Epson introduces another printer and it still has the same issues, clogging etc., what will be their excuse ?
Title: ipf5000 output quality
Post by: Verooon on November 01, 2006, 06:11:57 pm
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Which RIP software currently already supports the Canon ?

Christophe
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ONYX ProductionHouse 7.0... works great!
Title: ipf5000 output quality
Post by: K.C. on November 01, 2006, 06:31:08 pm
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ONYX ProductionHouse 7.0... works great!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=83302\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

And Image Print will be available by the end of November.
Title: ipf5000 output quality
Post by: Dale Allyn on November 02, 2006, 07:39:22 am
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HI Dale,

Just returned from my trip..  Printer not used for more than two weeks.  Powered it up and it did some kind of cleaning exercise on its own.  Did a nozzle check.. Perfect.. Made some prints 11x14 and 13x19 cut sheet and some 16" canvas roll.. all prints looked great.  No nozzle issues at all.  Makes me smile   .

Tony
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Hi Tony,

Thanks very much for your previous reply and of course this one too. I've just returned to Bangkok from the Thai-Burma (Myanmar) border, so I'm just getting to some internet "work" now. Back to the States next week.

This is great news regarding your homecoming. Did you leave your printer in a sleep mode or powered completely off? I've heard that some leave it on to allow some minor maintenance routines to be run and others power it down completely.

Welcome home and thanks again.

Dale
Title: ipf5000 output quality
Post by: tbonanno on November 02, 2006, 09:59:21 am
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Hi Tony,

.......Did you leave your printer in a sleep mode or powered completely off? I've heard that some leave it on to allow some minor maintenance routines to be run and others power it down completely.

Welcome home and thanks again.

Dale
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Should have mentioned that normally leave the computer on and let it go into sleep mode, but for this trip I DID cut the power completely.  

T.
Title: ipf5000 output quality
Post by: Dale Allyn on November 02, 2006, 10:29:56 am
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Should have mentioned that normally leave the computer on and let it go into sleep mode, but for this trip I DID cut the power completely. 

T.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=83373\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Great. Thanks for the information.

Be well,

Dale
Title: ipf5000 output quality
Post by: palderm on November 03, 2006, 04:01:04 pm
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Hi,

I am new to this forum and have been following some threads for a couple of weeks.

I am an architect, doing visualisations. I have used since 1998 an Epson Stylus Pro 5000, which died on me 3 weeks ago.

I was planning to replace the machine next year, since it died I will replace it a bit earlier.

As many of you I am looking at about 4 to 7 possible replacements:
A3+ sizes
1. Epson 3800
2. HP 9180

A2  sizes
3. Epson 4800
4. Canon IPF5000

A1 sizes
5. Epson 7800
6. HP Z2100 24 inch
7. HP Z3100 24 inch

For my budget I think A2 sizes are what I can afford, only A1 maybe I could afford is the HP Z2100.

Concerning the Epson 4800/7800 the Black ink problem is a major issue to me as I often swith from matte paper to glossy. I need both in one printer. Adding the Imageprint RIP is to cost expensive compared to going for othe rmachines.

However I was always very pleased about the output quality of Epson machines despite paperhandling problems, poor drivers, controller errors, print head problems. The final prints I needed where always very good, I also did larger prints on Epson 9800 outside of my office mostly on matte papers.
To me for my budget only 3 options seem available:
1. Canon IPF 5000

I am very seduced by the Canon IPF5000, but ....

Are the images really up to par in sharpness, color, saturation, etc... to the Epson 4800 ?

Are the standard papers from Canon also good ???
2. Epson 3800

If the canon is not up to par with Epson 4800 then  I tend to lean to the new Epson 3800, however I would loose A2 and the roll option ? I would be left mainly with what I had with my Epson 5000, only faster and better quality.

Will the Epson 3800 be better in quality then the 4800 or is this just marketing hype by Epson ???
3. HP Z2100

The other option would be the HP Z2100 24 inch standard version.

Advantage would be larger size, however I am very weary of print quality, why ?

I have test prints from HP 130 and 90 and they are not up to par even with my Epson 5000 in some areas, oversaturated blues etc...
What would you do ???

Still I like the Canon ?

What would you buy:
Epson 3800, Canon IPF5000 or HP Z2100

Christophe from Belgium
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Title: ipf5000 output quality
Post by: marcmccalmont on November 03, 2006, 04:22:24 pm
The print quality (Photographic) of the iPF5000 is second to none using the 16 bit plugin.

Canon papers are easily surpassed. The best quality for the money is the Ink Jet Art papers others are better at a higher price
Fuji Pro                                (Gloss, best resolution of any paper)
Oriental FB Gloss                  (Look and feal of a darkroom print)
Innova F Gloss                      (Fine Art semi Gloss)
Innova Soft textured art         (Matt)
Hahnemuele William Turner    (Matt)

For general purpose the IJA are very white, high resolution and affordable. I find the Canon and Epson papers yellow and over priced.

Only my opinion
Marc
Title: ipf5000 output quality
Post by: haefnerphoto on November 03, 2006, 07:58:05 pm
Oriental Museum weight fiber based gloss, how many people have used it?  Having seen it mentioned in the above reply I ordered a box to try.  Now after a bit of research I'm finding that it's hardly a new product (introduced in 2004) and carried by a handful of suppliers.  With so many people looking for the traditional air dryed F surface look you'd think we'd all have heard about it.  Those of you who use the paper please let me know your thoughts on the product.
Title: ipf5000 output quality
Post by: JPrimgaard on November 05, 2006, 05:09:01 pm
Soooo......

Did anyone get a chance to see (in person) the release of ImagePrint for the ipf5000?  Look good?

Michael, any ideas as to when you might be reviewing the software?

I'm waiting to see if an ipf5000 with ImagePrint is going to be a worthwhile trade off in size and price over an HP Z3100 24".

As I understand it, ImagePrint will not only give you a RIP, but access to profiles, negatting the need for sending out targets or doing it yourself (with the added cost and learning curve).  The HP will give you built in profiling, but A) will it be good enough, and B ) will the HP software do enough to negate the need for a RIP?

With the ipf5000's now getting dropped by $500 it should be a good $1500 (that's with the RIP) less than the Z3100 24".  Is a 7" difference going to be worth the $1500?   That's certainly going to be a different equation for each individual.

I'm on the sidelines until ImagePrint for the ipf5000 and the Z3100 are both knowns.  Can hardly wait!!!!!!  

Jake
Title: ipf5000 output quality
Post by: K.C. on November 05, 2006, 05:29:26 pm
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As I understand it, ImagePrint will not only give you a RIP, but access to profiles, negatting the need for sending out targets or doing it yourself (with the added cost and learning curve).  [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=83734\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

As an IP user with an Epson I can tell you that you'll get superior image quality, better ink management, very good profiles and the many other advantages of a true rip. There is no reason to believe that IP will the Canon will be anything less.