Luminous Landscape Forum
The Art of Photography => The Coffee Corner => Topic started by: enduser on June 23, 2018, 10:48:02 pm
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From the other side of the world it is very saddening to see the great USA tearing itself to pieces. We believed there was "something" about the US that held to the idea of better world view. It seems that the election of Mr Trump has divided the nation permanently.
Not for us to say right or wrong but we do observe a decline in government policy that holds things like achieving greater public good, sense of high purpose and moral leadership to be important. The US government used to be the "stand-out" on such things but I fear the neo-liberalism of Thatcher and Reagan, which preaches an "every man for himself" has taken hold throughout the West.
Anyway, good luck, and there's always New Zealand. (US nationals are second highest group migrating to New Zealand currently, Chinese being the largest. No, I'm not a New Zealander)
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From the other side of the world it is very saddening to see the great USA tearing itself to pieces. We believed there was "something" about the US that held to the idea of better world view. It seems that the election of Mr Trump has divided the nation permanently.
No, I think it was long before that. Obama certainly did his share of polarization with crap like guy's going pee in the women's room etc. And, it was going on long before that. I honestly think it's the 24 hr. media that is driving most of it. Virtually all of them have become little more than propaganda sites. Just try to find a single one that will give you a straight take on the news. I've been unable to find any that do it consistently, and most are obviously in the ideology business now.
Kent in SD
Kent in SD
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I honestly think it's the 24 hr. media that is driving most of it. Virtually all of them have become little more than propaganda sites. Just try to find a single one that will give you a straight take on the news.
Finding unbiased news isn't hard. Ya just gotta look for it. I find sources here: Media Bias/Fact Check - Least Biased (https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/center/)
Some notables sources are; AP (https://apnews.com), cookpolitical.com (http://cookpolitical.com), Financial Times (https://www.ft.com), International Consortium of Investigative Journalists (https://www.icij.org), McClatchyDC (http://www.mcclatchydc.com), Politifact (http://www.politifact.com/), Reuters (https://www.reuters.com), That’s Nonsense (http://www.thatsnonsense.com), The Conversation (https://theconversation.com/us), The Humanist Magazine (https://thehumanist.com), The Knife (https://www.theknifemedia.com), The Moderate Voice (http://themoderatevoice.com), The TruthSetter (https://truthsetter.com), Transpartisan Review (http://www.transpartisanreview.org)ThoughtCo (https://www.thoughtco.com), TruthOrFiction.com (https://www.truthorfiction.com), United Press International (UPI) (https://www.upi.com), USA Facts (https://usafacts.org), World Economic Forum (https://www.weforum.org), World Politics Review (https://www.worldpoliticsreview.com), World Press Review (http://worldpress.org), World Resources Institute (WRI) (http://www.wri.org) to name a few...
As Fox Mulder said "the truth is out there", all ya gotta do is look for it. If you settle for CNN or Fox, you are missing a lot.
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In addition to Jeff's list, publicly funded sources such as Propublica (https://www.propublica.org/) and The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/us) both have good investigational teams that go in depth on stories. If one wants 'balanced' op-ed writing, the Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/regional/) is perhaps the best available as they feature conservative columnists such as Michael Gerson and George Will along with the liberal ones. they also routinely invite administration and Congressional leaders to author columns on top issues. This past week, Senator Lamar Alexander penned a decent defense of the Administration's new approach to solving what they perceive as the weaknesses of Obamacare.
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In addition to Jeff's list, publicly funded sources such as Propublica (https://www.propublica.org/) and The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/us) both have good investigational teams that go in depth on stories. If one wants 'balanced' op-ed writing, the Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/regional/) is perhaps the best available as they feature conservative columnists such as Michael Gerson and George Will along with the liberal ones. they also routinely invite administration and Congressional leaders to author columns on top issues. This past week, Senator Lamar Alexander penned a decent defense of the Administration's new approach to solving what they perceive as the weaknesses of Obamacare.
Except, of course, that The Guardian is a mouthpiece for the left.
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Except, of course, that The Guardian is a mouthpiece for the left.
ONE man's opinion. So it doesn't sync up with the same data as the other's posted here or all those posted here are a mouthpiece for the left, sans actual data?
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From the other side of the world it is very saddening to see the great USA tearing itself to pieces. We believed there was "something" about the US that held to the idea of better world view. It seems that the election of Mr Trump has divided the nation permanently.
Not for us to say right or wrong but we do observe a decline in government policy that holds things like achieving greater public good, sense of high purpose and moral leadership to be important. The US government used to be the "stand-out" on such things but I fear the neo-liberalism of Thatcher and Reagan, which preaches an "every man for himself" has taken hold throughout the West.
Anyway, good luck, and there's always New Zealand. (US nationals are second highest group migrating to New Zealand currently, Chinese being the largest. No, I'm not a New Zealander)
Thanks for the moral lecture, End. Of course, while they become Chinese colonies, neither Australia nor New Zealand would think of allowing political controversies like the ones we have in the U.S. Don't misunderstand what I'm saying. I've always thought the world of Aussies, at least since I spent time working with an Australian fighter squadron detachment at Ubon Ratchathani in Thailand in 1964 and 65. Except for their weird pronunciation Aussies are closer to Americans than any other English-speaking group.
But the current problem you're having understanding what's going on in the U.S. is caused by the garbage you read, provided by our almost wholly left-wing "news" media. Just relax. Nothing really has changed except for the sound level. If you look at US history you'll find things like fistfights on the floor of the House of Representatives, even a shooting or two. People in the United States never have been passive bystanders. With the election of the current administration we've become a free people again. Hooray!!!
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Thanks for the moral lecture, End.
Just that sentence and the snarky-ness behind it illustrates that Jeremy will once again have to shut down a political thread. Just when I was hoping Rob would explain, in his non typical snarky style how The Guardian among other perhaps is a 'mouthpiece for the left.
Define the left, explain if the writers write solely what 'the left' tells them (hence mouthpiece), etc. It's sometimes interesting and useful to see how other people's minds work if you have a tiny respect for their intelligence. That usually starts with comments that don't open your POV by being dismissive and snarky.
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1. From the other side of the world it is very saddening to see the great USA tearing itself to pieces. We believed there was "something" about the US that held to the idea of better world view. It seems that the election of Mr Trump has divided the nation permanently.
2. Not for us to say right or wrong but we do observe a decline in government policy that holds things like achieving greater public good, sense of high purpose and moral leadership to be important. The US government used to be the "stand-out" on such things but I fear the neo-liberalism of Thatcher and Reagan, which preaches an "every man for himself" has taken hold throughout the West.
Anyway, good luck, and there's always New Zealand. (US nationals are second highest group migrating to New Zealand currently, Chinese being the largest. No, I'm not a New Zealander)
1. No, I don't think many non-Americans ever imagined that the US of A had a wonderful world view. What we did imagine was that it was the land of enterprise, where the belief was that success lay in one's own hands, to achieve or not to achieve. Of course, it could have been an innocent assumption born of Hollywood. I'm told that many British women married UK-based GIs in the vain expectation of ending up in Beverly Hills only to discover that back at the ranch there wasn't really anything at all.
2. Hardly; Mrs T was the daughter of a shopkeeper. All she was espousing and generating was the value of self-reliance and the taking of responsibility for one's own life. Remove that, and you have created the "entitlement generation". That's predicated on the assumption that somebody else will permanently pull your chestnuts out of the fire for you. Trouble is, it's never made clear who that somebody else is going to be, and from whence will flow the money that's going to be lavished upon you by the imaginary, devoted, bigger brother you never met.
;-)
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Of course, while they become Chinese colonies, neither Australia nor New Zealand would think of allowing political controversies like the ones we have in the U.S.
What tripe.
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Just that sentence and the snarky-ness behind it illustrates that Jeremy will once again have to shut down a political thread. Just when I was hoping Rob would explain, in his non typical snarky style how The Guardian among other perhaps is a 'mouthpiece for the left.
Define the left, explain if the writers write solely what 'the left' tells them (hence mouthpiece), etc. It's sometimes interesting and useful to see how other people's minds work if you have a tiny respect for their intelligence. That usually starts with comments that don't open your POV by being dismissive and snarky.
Your lunch - or breakfast, depending on time-zones - has obviously been more replete with vino than mine!
Rob
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But the current problem you're having understanding what's going on in the U.S. is caused by the garbage you read, provided by our almost wholly left-wing "news" media. Just relax. Nothing really has changed except for the sound level. If you look at US history you'll find things like fistfights on the floor of the House of Representatives, even a shooting or two. People in the United States never have been passive bystanders. With the election of the current administration we've become a free people again. Hooray!!!
You would do well to read Richard Hofstadter's fine essay the Paranoid Style in American Politics (https://harpers.org/archive/1964/11/the-paranoid-style-in-american-politics/). His Pulitzer Prize winning book, "Anti-Intellectualism in American Life" is also valuable as it describes the provincialism in American society (still present) and distrust of cosmopolitan big city intellectualism.
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Mrs T was the daughter of a shopkeeper. All she was espousing and generating was the value of self-reliance and the taking of responsibility for one's own life. Remove that, and you have created the "entitlement generation".
I understand that points sometimes need to be made in an un-nuanced manner, if for no other reason than to avoid too many sub-clauses that confuse things.
There has NEVER been a time where people were self-reliant. There was always a safety net of some form, some backdrop, sometimes formal, sometimes not, some friendly power structure, depending on the social structure of the time. Pendulums swing and mostly overshoot, then come back. This is probably because of societal momentum, not many large entities can turn on a dime. So unions become entrenched and wield too much power. Other times, coal companies kill their employees to save a dime and coerce the health authorities into ignoring the data or even deliberately hide it.
It's easy to feel proud of your achievements when you've slogged your whole life and it's a valid thing to do, but it doesn't mean that everyone else was a lazy ass.
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Your lunch - or breakfast, depending on time-zones - has obviously been more replete with vino than mine!
Rob
Vino and deserts with breakfast is AOK with this dog.
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Define the left.
We don't have to, Andrew. You're doing a great job illustrating what it is. No further definition needed.
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We don't have to, Andrew. You're doing a great job illustrating what it is. No further definition needed.
Assumptions, speculation, rubbish. Let Rob answer if he wants, as you cannot!
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You would do well to read Richard Hofstadter's fine essay the Paranoid Style in American Politics (https://harpers.org/archive/1964/11/the-paranoid-style-in-american-politics/). His Pulitzer Prize winning book, "Anti-Intellectualism in American Life" is also valuable as it describes the provincialism in American society (still present) and distrust of cosmopolitan big city intellectualism.
You said you were leaving The Coffee Corner, Alan, so Jeremy wouldn't pester you any longer. You change your mind?
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You said you were leaving The Coffee Corner, Alan, so Jeremy wouldn't pester you any longer. You change your mind?
I suspect I just wanted to receive more of your troll-like posts for which you have been reported.
ADDED: I shall ignore every one of your comments going forward and not respond.
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You said you were leaving The Coffee Corner, Alan, so Jeremy wouldn't pester you any longer. You change your mind?
Can you direct me to a post where Jeremy stated this “pestering”? It is entirely possible. I honestly don’t know so I’m asking as that data would be useful for me to understand several “issues” in this forum. TIA!
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It's an unfortunate regression to childhood, where seeking to hide behind maternal skirts and teachers was an easy alternative to everything disagreeable.
Leave poor Jeremy in peace, on his beloved ice; there's absolutely nothing for him here on this thread about which to get excited. Heysoos, if every differing point of view requires a referee, we may a well close shop and go home and watch television.
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1. No, I don't think many non-Americans ever imagined that the US of A had a wonderful world view. What we did imagine was that it was the land of enterprise, where the belief was that success lay in one's own hands, to achieve or not to achieve. Of course, it could have been an innocent assumption born of Hollywood. I'm told that many British women married UK-based GIs in the vain expectation of ending up in Beverly Hills only to discover that back at the ranch there wasn't really anything at all.
2. Hardly; Mrs T was the daughter of a shopkeeper. All she was espousing and generating was the value of self-reliance and the taking of responsibility for one's own life. Remove that, and you have created the "entitlement generation". That's predicated on the assumption that somebody else will permanently pull your chestnuts out of the fire for you. Trouble is, it's never made clear who that somebody else is going to be, and from whence will flow the money that's going to be lavished upon you by the imaginary, devoted, bigger brother you never met.
;-)
Chances are she was just channelling Rand, Hayek even Greenspan and others for whom the success of the individual is all that matters. If you are poor then that’s a choice: you simply didn’t want to be successful enough. And almost nothing - whether poverty, inequality, healthcare, education or culture - should be allowed to impinge on the right of the successful to be even more successful.
In fact we now know that humans evolved to cooperate in groups and that there is a constant tussle in our psyche between serving the group (altruism) and getting ahead in the group (selfishness). It’s just how we’re wired up. Anything which tries to pretend otherwise is going to end in tears. All we’re seeing now is the endgame of the latest experiment in living a lie, in this case neoliberalism. We are social beings through and through.
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I suspect I just wanted to receive more of your troll-like posts for which you have been reported.
ADDED: I shall ignore every one of your comments going forward and not respond.
It's a terrible temptation, Alan, to say, "that's a relief." But I don't want to be snarky, so I won't say that.
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Can you direct me to a post where Jeremy stated this “pestering”? It is entirely possible. I honestly don’t know so I’m asking as that data would be useful for me to understand several “issues” in this forum. TIA!
The recently closed down thread by Jeff Schewe that both you and I contributed to.
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Chances are she was just channelling Rand, Hayek even Greenspan and others for whom the success of the individual is all that matters. If you are poor then that’s a choice: you simply didn’t want to be successful enough, etc. In fact we now know from science that humans evolved to cooperate in groups and that there is a constant tussle in our psyche between serving the group (altruism) and getting ahead (selfishness). It’s just how we’re wired up. Anything which tries to pretend otherwise is going to end in tears. All were seeing now is the endgame of the latest experiment in living a lie, in this case neoliberalism. We are social beings, not success-monsters.
I'm not Atlas and neither was Maggie; that said, conclusions such as those you have just attributed to "science" have the problem that results from inequality: the inequality of each and every human example of us. Consequently, I'd be reluctant to accept such scientific generalities as meaning all that much.
Insofar as being a " social being", I can think of few people further removed from that mould than myself. As I've pointed out before, having to work in a group of photographers is my current picture of hell. I am the last person that would sign on to any workshop or joint travel venture. I would feel miserable not being able to smile, jump into the car and get the hell away and back to my own world.
So no, I don't accept at all the generalisation that that's just the way we are wired; yes, some surely do have that circuitry, but not I!
Rob
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...serving the group (altruism) and getting ahead in the group (selfishness)...
If the mankind hasn't been supporting getting ahead in the group, we would be still plowing fields with horses and wooden plows, as those "serving the group" still do. Or hunt our lunch with bow and arrow.
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... I was hoping Rob would explain... how The Guardian among other perhaps is a 'mouthpiece for the left...
Since Andrew, apparently, only understands things on a literal level, here is the proof in a language closer to that level:
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Leave poor Jeremy in peace, on his beloved ice; there's absolutely nothing for him here on this thread about which to get excited. Heysoos, if every differing point of view requires a referee, we may a well close shop and go home and watch television.
Sadly, Rob, I'm off the ice and sweltering in an unusually sunny and very warm Manchester: the grass is going brown, and that's not a sight we see very often in this rain-sodden part of England. I'm beginning to think we're going to have a proper summer here, not the usual two hot days and a thunderstorm before autumn returns.
Your second sentence is quite right, however. As to the topic, I've read nothing here yet which offends against the principles I posted a few months ago.
A couple of points are worth making (as participant, in case anyone's in any doubt, not as moderator - and yes, I do feel I am able to combine the roles). The first is that the Guardian (or Grauniad, as many call it due to its recurrent misprints which sometimes extended even to its own name) is not publicly funded: it's a private enterprise and has been since it was founded in 1821 not far from where I live, as The Manchester Guardian. The second is that whether or not it can properly be described as a mouthpiece of the left, there is no doubt at all that its general political stance is very much to the left of centre.
Before anyone draws, or rather attempts to draw, any conclusions about my own political leanings, I should say that I read The Times, The Guardian, The Telegraph and The Daily Mash pretty much every day and sometimes, but only when I'm really bored, The Independent.
Jeremy
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... Define the left...
Probably nothing better than this BBC skit:
https://www.facebook.com/raheemkassam/videos/840600849482584/
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If the mankind hasn't been supporting getting ahead in the group, we would be still plowing fields with horses and wooden plows, as those "serving the group" still do. Or hunt our lunch with bow and arrow.
I would argue that the attributes which spawn invention and innovation are curiosity and resourcefulness, rather than ambition and greed.
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... Define the left..
Another contribution to the definition:
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Another contribution to the definition:
Slobodan, where did you get the statement above the photo? It is not in the article accompanying that photo.
PS I have a subscription to NYT.
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The recently closed down thread by Jeff Schewe that both you and I contributed to.
Sorry, cannot find it. Maybe that’s why Alan didn’t answer my question.
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Another contribution to the definition:
Nope!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definition
Generally, a definition delimits or describes the meaning of a concept or term.
You can only write in Metaphors it seems.
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Slobodan, where did you get the statement above the photo? It is not in the article accompanying that photo.
PS I have a subscription to NYT.
Here is the link to the article and contributors to this forum can judge for themselves whether the one who posted the photo was being truthful: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/20/us/white-minority-population.html
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Here is the link to the article and contributors to this forum can judge for themselves whether the one who posted the photo was being truthful: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/20/us/white-minority-population.html
My judgement is fake news definition. More of the usual hypocrisy from the same side.
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Here is the link to the article and contributors to this forum can judge for themselves whether the one who posted the photo was being truthful: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/20/us/white-minority-population.html
Are you saying that I am lying?
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Slobodan, where did you get the statement above the photo?...
Omer,
This is a snapshot from a Facebook post from one of my FB friends on the left. I cut his/her name out, as it would not be fair to them. This, by the way, is not the first time I hear that sentiment in Facebook posts.
Reposting to include recognizable FB elements:
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I you saying that I am lying? That would be a new low for you.
Are you being truthful, can you prove to those asking about the photo YOU posted the question asked about the photo.
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Are you saying that I am lying? That would be a new low for you.
True fact: The caption above the photograph was never part of the story and a true journalist would have made that clear. It only was in a subsequent post that you identify it as coming from a friend's Facebook post. Your original post should have cropped the caption out or identified it as somebody's (unidentified) comment. Please show me where I stated that you are lying. I'm stating in this post that what you did was pretty sloppy and I think your subsequent post points that out.
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My judgement is fake news definition. More of the usual hypocrisy from the same side.
Are you being truthful, can you prove to those asking about the photo YOU posted the question asked about the photo.
Are you saying that I am lying? That would be a new low for you.
Whoa guys, slow down. This is a forum, not a scientific publication. I asked Slobodan and he was kind enough to answer. Not a problem.
Phew, enough said, eh?
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True fact: The caption above the photograph was never part of the story and a true journalist would have made that clear. It only was in a subsequent post that you identify it as coming from a friend's Facebook post. Your original post should have cropped the caption out or identified it as somebody's (unidentified) comment. Please show me where I stated that you are lying. I'm stating in this post that what you did was pretty sloppy and I think your subsequent post points that out.
Fair enough.
It didn't occur to me that it might be interpreted as a part of the NYT story. I see now how it could have been, though it was not my intention.
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But why would it matter from whence the caption?
In this context, here and now, I can see all sorts of racial aspirations coming into play, poetic justice, even, or perhaps a foretaste of what's awaiting Italy and Spain and has already made parts of Paris impossible to police.
It's just another of the politically incorrect truths that are to be ignored until death. I wonder how the new structures will respond to political correctness when they hold the whip? And all achieved so democratically through arithmetic with a side diish of sex.
SloMo train-wreck.
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But why would it matter from whence the caption?
In this context, here and now, I can see all sorts of racial aspirations coming into play...
For what it is worth, my FB friend is white.
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For what it is worth, my FB friend is white.
https://newrepublic.com/article/90059/gop-rick-santorum-best-friend-defense
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From the other side of the world it is very saddening to see the great USA tearing itself to pieces. We believed there was "something" about the US that held to the idea of better world view. It seems that the election of Mr Trump has divided the nation permanently.
Not for us to say right or wrong but we do observe a decline in government policy that holds things like achieving greater public good, sense of high purpose and moral leadership to be important. The US government used to be the "stand-out" on such things but I fear the neo-liberalism of Thatcher and Reagan, which preaches an "every man for himself" has taken hold throughout the West.
Anyway, good luck, and there's always New Zealand. (US nationals are second highest group migrating to New Zealand currently, Chinese being the largest. No, I'm not a New Zealander)
I am a New Zealander and I wish you good luck with this thread. I tried one similar on cultural tribalism and the polarisation of thought, and enough wackos thought it was about Tr*mp to get it closed down.
Here is alternative view:
With the collapse of the Soviet Union, America's ruling class and their liberal supporters no longer have a use for the middle classes. They are eliminating them by shifting their jobs overseas, limiting free enterprise by putting power in the hands of a few giant corporations, bankrupting them through healthcare and education costs and ruining their children with debt and smartphone addiction.
At the same time they are quite happy about illegal immigration because it provides a supply of servants. You hear them talk about how much they get paid and how hard they work. All under the table of course because holiday pay, sick leave and a pension never enter into the equation.
The rest of the US is aware of this. Those who haven't committed suicide and who aren't on opioids are not so quietly sharpening their pitchforks.
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True fact: The caption above the photograph was never part of the story and a true journalist would have made that clear. It only was in a subsequent post that you identify it as coming from a friend's Facebook post. Your original post should have cropped the caption out or identified it as somebody's (unidentified) comment. Please show me where I stated that you are lying.
Nonsense; and re-read your posts.
It didn't occur to me that it might be interpreted as a part of the NYT story. I see now how it could have been, though it was not my intention.
You're being very kind. I don't see how anyone could possibly have interpreted the comment over the image as being part of the story from the NYT.
Jeremy
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https://newrepublic.com/article/90059/gop-rick-santorum-best-friend-defense
Ah, the New Republic! Whatever is in liberal magazines must have real value and must be true. What a knee-jerk reaction, Andrew.
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Ah, the New Republic! Whatever is in liberal magazines must have real value and must be true. What a knee-jerk reaction, Andrew.
What a foolish reaction. First, the article had some interesting history about the use of 'my best friends'. Are you telling us due to it being in the New Republic, that history is ALL wrong? Do provide any leaning or non leaning reference that dismisses what was written in the article. IF you can....
Next, I learned quite a bit of history from the article I actually fully read, unlike some here who's knee-jerk reaction and close minds didn't read the article and decided outright, it's all a lie. The reason I posted the ULR is due to what I learned and thought some, at least those with open minds and an interest in learning some history would also find it interesting. Clearly you don't fall into that camp. You saw the source and decided outright it was bogus. Now you can attempt to dismiss what was written (once you actually read it). I suspect that's far too difficult a task to ask; easier to show a knee-jerk reaction by utterly dismissing the article. I wonder how you ever learned anything anywhere. :'(
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What a foolish reaction. First, the article had some interesting history about the use of 'my best friends'. Are you telling us due to it being in the New Republic, that history is ALL wrong? Do provide any leaning or non leaning reference that dismisses what was written in the article. IF you can....
Next, I learned quite a bit of history from the article I actually fully read, unlike some here who's knee-jerk reaction and close minds didn't read the article and decided outright, it's all a lie. The reason I posted the ULR is due to what I learned and thought some, at least those with open minds and an interest in learning some history would also find it interesting. Clearly you don't fall into that camp. You saw the source and decided outright it was bogus. Now you can attempt to dismiss what was written (once you actually read it). I suspect that's far too difficult a task to ask; easier to show a knee-jerk reaction by utterly dismissing the article. I wonder how you ever learned anything anywhere. :'(
It may shock you but some of my best friends are liberals. See, I can do it too. And yes, I read the whole article before responding.
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And yes, I read the whole article before responding.
Once again, you were asked a question who's answer would show the silliness of your post about the article referenced. You say you read the piece, it's all wrong, mostly wrong, partially correct? It's from a source you call, with a knee jerk reaction, a liberal magazine. If that magazine printed the Earth is round, and in a right leaning magazine, it stated the Earth was flat, it doesn't matter the politics, what matters is the facts.
I posted the piece that has for me, interesting historical data, you dismissed it based on the magazine; typical knee-jerk ....
So, again, the article has merit or, as you stated, it doesn't because it came from New Republic?
YOU stated this sir:Ah, the New Republic! Whatever is in liberal magazines must have real value and must be true.
Answer a question IF you can: there is NO value in the article and it is untrue; prove it. Otherwise, the text above in italic is a massive and wrong knee-jerk reaction.
Think before answer if you even answer.
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... once you actually read it...
Ok, so I actually read it. So? What that has to do with what I said?
I was not defending anything. I was not defending myself from accusations that I do not have liberal friends. I do, but I am not using it as an excuse for anything. I was not defending myself against accusations that I am not anti-liberal. I am.
So, once again, what that has to do with what I said?
You seem to have a knee-jerk reaction to whatever I post, feeling the need to immediately attack it and dispute it, even when I am simply stating a fact, and EVEN when I, rarely, agree with you.
My post was right after Rob mentioned a racial aspect. I said that my FB friend is white simply to remove any suspicion that the death wish to whites is some sort of racial vengeance.
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Once again, you were asked a question who's answer would show the silliness of your post about the article referenced. You say you read the piece, it's all wrong, mostly wrong, partially correct? It's from a source you call, with a knee jerk reaction, a liberal magazine. If that magazine printed the Earth is round, and in a right leaning magazine, it stated the Earth was flat, it doesn't matter the politics, what matters is the facts.
I posted the piece that has for me, interesting historical data, you dismissed it based on the magazine; typical knee-jerk ....
So, again, the article has merit or, as you stated, it doesn't because it came from New Republic?
YOU stated this sir:Ah, the New Republic! Whatever is in liberal magazines must have real value and must be true.
Answer a question IF you can: there is NO value in the article and it is untrue; prove it. Otherwise, the text above in italic is a massive and wrong knee-jerk reaction.
Think before answer if you even answer.
Slobodan posts a funny remark about best friends and you find it necessary to post a link to a liberal magazine article that, wonder oh wonder, slams a republican. That's the knee-jerk reaction I alluded to. And yes, liberals tend to quote liberal media to support their issues because of their "whatever is in liberal magazines must have real value and must be true" inclinations.
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Slobodan posts a funny remark about best friends and you find it necessary to post a link to a liberal magazine article that, wonder oh wonder, slams a republican. That's the knee-jerk reaction I alluded to. And yes, liberals tend to quote liberal media to support their issues because of their "whatever is in liberal magazines must have real value and must be true" inclinations.
Clearly a few here missed the value by throwing the baby (white, Republican or otherwise) out with the bath water. Stuck in the bubble.
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Clearly a few here missed the value by throwing the baby (white, Republican or otherwise) out with the bath water. Stuck in the bubble.
What value exactly are you talking about?
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Those who haven't committed suicide and who aren't on opioids are not so quietly sharpening their pitchforks.
Funny you should mention opioids...
Study: Trump Carried Counties With High Opioid Use (https://www.newsmax.com/us/trump-opioid-voters-addiction/2018/06/23/id/867872/)
(and before you ask, this is from Newsmax (https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/newsmax/) which is a RIGHT BIAS media according to Media Bias/Fact Check (https://mediabiasfactcheck.com)
U.S. counties with high rates of prescription painkiller use voted heavily in favor of Donald Trump in the 2016 presidential election, a new study finds.
Researchers found that, on average, Trump got about 60 percent of the vote in counties with the greatest use of prescription opioids -- drugs such as Vicodin and OxyContin. That was in contrast to counties with relatively low opioid prescription rates; there, Trump garnered just under 39 percent of the vote, on average.
The findings add to evidence that people in communities with economic and social woes commonly threw their support to Trump in 2016. But they do not mean that people addicted to opioids voted for him, the study authors said....
BTW, I've got a variety of pitchforks at the ready of course because I'm a progressive and therefore closely associated with the devil :~)
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Yes Jeff. It was that study or one similar that prompted the pitchfork comment.
I see His Golden Greatness's election as a form of pitchfork sharpening, among other things which can't be spoken of or we get shouted at.
A similar thing is probably happening in the UK, though that is playing out as a slow motion train wreck.
Edit: I wouldn't call myself a progressive, but I haven't lost my sense of humour, so I can't be a conservative either.
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The problem with Thatcherism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's assets to flog off.
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The problem with Thatcherism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's assets to flog off.
Yes, the very same assets that other colours of political thought had appropriated to the state in years past.
Some circles are more vicious than others. It all depends at which station of the particular cross you decide to opt in.
Rob
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What value exactly are you talking about?
The one's you, by admission (the actual history) missed. ;D
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BTW, I've got a variety of pitchforks at the ready of course because I'm a progressive and therefore closely associated with the devil :~)
They better friggin watch out!
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From fake news CNN, fake photo's from a fake director (?) but.... at least it's got something to do with photography:
https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2018/06/entertainment/stanley-kubrick-cnnphotos/index.html (https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2018/06/entertainment/stanley-kubrick-cnnphotos/index.html)
Take a moment from all this political nonsense and open your minds to an amazing talent!
Then you can return to this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_and_religious_beliefs_of_Stanley_Kubrick
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From the other side of the world it is very saddening to see the great USA tearing itself to pieces. We believed there was "something" about the US that held to the idea of better world view. It seems that the election of Mr Trump has divided the nation permanently.
Not for us to say right or wrong but we do observe a decline in government policy that holds things like achieving greater public good, sense of high purpose and moral leadership to be important. The US government used to be the "stand-out" on such things but I fear the neo-liberalism of Thatcher and Reagan, which preaches an "every man for himself" has taken hold throughout the West.
Anyway, good luck, and there's always New Zealand. (US nationals are second highest group migrating to New Zealand currently, Chinese being the largest. No, I'm not a New Zealander)
Don;t believe every liberal article you read. Except for the political class, the rest of us are busy 98% of the time dealing with grandchildren, credit card debt, weddings, finding a better job, death, and birth, finding a good new restaurant to eat at and other family and social pastimes. My direct involvement with politics recently is that I voted last Saturday for a bond issue to finance a new fire house and fire engine for my town. No, they didn't ask me for ID when I voted. I just told the person my name, she looked it up and gave me the ballet to vote with. I asked her if I could vote for my wife too since she couldn't make it. She laughed but drew the line there.
I do agree that there seems to be more angst. People are more on edge. But I remember the 1960's and 1970's with the Chicago riots at the Democrat convention, cities burning down when Martin Luther King was assassinated, Black Liberation Army blowing things up, the Weathermen, Vietnam riots, Kent State, Mutually Assured Destruction as the Soviets and Americans had their ICBM's on instantaneous launch. Personally I was an airman in the Strategic Air COmmand where we had B-52 Bombers with A bombs on 15 minute launch alert in case the Ruskies attacked or we decided to attack first. So I was personally involved in the insanity. But things worked out. The Soviets are gone, Eastern Europe is free, Chicago is dealing now with a gang problem, and American is still standing a free nation. There's Medicare and Obamacare and loads of other benefits to achieve "the public good" whatever that means. People speak down other people and are asking them to leave restaurants. At least they're not shooting them or blowing them up like back then. Well mostly, anyway.
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Don;t believe every liberal article you read.
Don't believe every conservative article or conservative poster you read. Read many differing sources and look for consistency. Worry about anything being called fake without proof from multiple sources that there's anything at all fake about what's reported; today that's the mantra for dismissing what other's disagree with.
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Shame you guys do not like or follow Football World Cup in Russia, much more interesting than this:)
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Shame you guys do not like or follow Football World Cup in Russia, much more interesting than this:)
Breaking my rule of not commenting!!!
I've probably watched all but two matches so far. I was hoping Iran would defeat Portugal yesterday and move on to the round of 16 which would have been pretty good. Spain don't look good at all these days and Germany could still go out which would also suit me just fine. France and Denmark just played a lifeless 0-0 draw once Peru went up on Australia and there was really no point in pushing on hard for a goal.
I guess if there are favorites it might be Croatia and Belgium and wouldn't it be great if they met in the final!!!
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Wow, four locked topics in four days. Looks like this place to hell in a hand basket while I was gone.
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Wow, four locked topics in four days. Looks like this place to hell in a hand basket while I was gone.
Just substitute "The Coffee Corner" for Chinatown:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cWnubJ9CEw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cWnubJ9CEw)
I could go on a conspiracy theory that the reason this one forum remains here is it gets lots of hits which the advertisers may like.
I really do believe Chris and Kevin should consider just making it go away. Let's stick to debating photography; Nikon vs. Canon (or Sony). Epson vs. Canon (or HP). Film vs. Digital. :P
Possible proof of concept. Close the forum down for 30 days. Add up the number of locked threads. Compare to the number the prior month.
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Breaking my rule of not commenting!!! ...
Your constant "quitting" reminds me of the old joke:
"It’s Easy to Quit Smoking. I’ve Done It a Thousand Times."
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Your constant "quitting" reminds me of the old joke:
"It’s Easy to Quit Smoking. I’ve Done It a Thousand Times."
An attempt to comment via an image:
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I could go on a conspiracy theory that the reason this one forum remains here is it gets lots of hits which the advertisers may like.
You could, of course, but it would be misguided. The forum remains here, and political discussions were reintroduced (or re-allowed, if you prefer), because I offered to moderate them and persuaded Kevin and Chris that it was a good idea.
I really do believe Chris and Kevin should consider just making it go away. Let's stick to debating photography; Nikon vs. Canon (or Sony). Epson vs. Canon (or HP). Film vs. Digital. :P
Then you make your argument to them and see if you can persuade them. I would make a counter-argument, for the reasons I set out in my first post after assuming the moderator's mantle. Or the moderator's tunic of Nessus, as it sometimes seems.
Possible proof of concept. Close the forum down for 30 days. Add up the number of locked threads. Compare to the number the prior month.
There's no need to do that: the proof that more threads are locked, by me or their originators, in the CC forum than on other areas here is trivial to obtain by looking for locked threads and counting them. Of course it's true. One of the main reasons for locking threads is antagonism, and that is (obviously) more prevalent when politics are being discussed. Even among photographers.
Jeremy
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AN EXCITING NEW IDEA!
If anyone doesn't like enjoy a thread, rather than bleat to have it closed, why not just ignore it and read something else or, better, contribute something mind bendingly better of your own?
Rob
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Let's stick to debating photography; Nikon vs. Canon (or Sony). Epson vs. Canon (or HP). Film vs. Digital.
And that's your idea of a debate about photography, Andrew? That's a debate about equipment; nowadays a pretty silly debate since all of it works well enough to actually use in making photographs.
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And that's your idea of a debate about photography, Andrew? That's a debate about equipment; nowadays a pretty silly debate since all of it works well enough to actually use in making photographs.
Sarcasm impaired?
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AN EXCITING NEW IDEA!
If anyone doesn't like enjoy a thread, rather than bleat to have it closed, why not just ignore it and read something else or, better, contribute something mind bendingly better of your own?
Rob
Preferably a photograph.
;-)
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Preferably a photograph.
Hey, steady on.
Jeremy
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It's of some comfort to me that what's been said here is pretty much the same as you would here from people in my country of Australia. Not just the comments but the feelings behind them as well. Quite heartening really.