Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Cameras, Lenses and Shooting gear => Topic started by: Manoli on June 14, 2018, 05:11:21 am

Title: Leica's new global shutter sensor ?
Post by: Manoli on June 14, 2018, 05:11:21 am
48MP sensor introduced by CMOSIS

" 4.6μm pipelined 8T global shutter pixels which allow exposure during read out ... "
https://gmpphoto.blogspot.com/2018/06/48mp-sensor-introduced-by-leica-sensor.html
Title: Re: Leica's new global shutter sensor ?
Post by: kers on June 15, 2018, 05:42:18 am
i dont understand it is as wide as fullframe but has a 4:3 size and...costs 3800$
a not much used mixture of qualities.


Title: Re: Leica's new global shutter sensor ?
Post by: Christopher Sanderson on June 15, 2018, 02:32:20 pm
i dont understand it is as wide as fulframe but has a 4:3 size and...costs 3800$
a not much used mixture of qualities.
Except perhaps for high-end video capture?
Title: Re: Leica's new global shutter sensor ?
Post by: Telecaster on June 15, 2018, 03:16:53 pm
48mp (8K) global shutter at a 4:3 aspect ratio sounds good to me. Brings back the framing/cropping versatility of using 35mm motion picture film.

-Dave-
Title: Re: Leica's new global shutter sensor ?
Post by: Malina DZ on June 15, 2018, 04:27:05 pm
Why Leica's? The CMV50000 sensor is produced by AMS and is available to everyone.
Here's a link to their PR: https://ams.com/-/high-resolution-high-speed-cmos-image-sensor-for-machine-vision-systems-goes-into-mass-production
Title: Re: Leica's new global shutter sensor ?
Post by: eronald on June 16, 2018, 05:24:44 pm
48MP sensor introduced by CMOSIS

" 4.6μm pipelined 8T global shutter pixels which allow exposure during read out ... "
https://gmpphoto.blogspot.com/2018/06/48mp-sensor-introduced-by-leica-sensor.html

You have found the new iPhone sensor :)

Edmund
Title: Re: Leica's new global shutter sensor ?
Post by: shadowblade on June 16, 2018, 11:29:14 pm
Sony also recently demonstrated this.

I would anticipate this to show up in the next generation of high-end Sony and Leica cameras, as well as those made by anyone else with the technology.

For the A9ii, it would be the logical next step, completely eliminating 'banding' issues with the electronic shutter and any movement-related readout distortions (e.g. golf clubs and helicopter blades), cementing it as a premier action camera. For the A7r4/A9r, it would also be useful, although not critical, in its role as a studio/'outdoor studio' camera, since it would completely eliminate flash sync speed as a limitation and allow even speedlights to easily overpower the sun (much easier with a 1/2000 exposure than a 1/200 exposure).

And, if the A9ii has it, everyone else will also add it in short order, if only to compete (although Leica largely exists in its own space, sustained as much by legacy and name as by actual performance).
Title: Leica's new global shutter sensor? Unlikely: low DR
Post by: BJL on June 18, 2018, 10:24:34 am
It is unlikely that this or any variant will be used in a still camera: its dynamic range is too low, as is the case with all global shutter sensors so far. Relatedly, note the limit to 12 bit output.
Title: Re: Leica's new global shutter sensor? Unlikely: low DR
Post by: shadowblade on June 18, 2018, 08:38:20 pm
It is unlikely that this or any variant will be used in a still camera: its dynamic range is too low, as is the case with all global shutter sensors so far. Relatedly, note the limit to 12 bit output.

All technology is junk in its first iteration. First-generation Exmor was useless past ISO 400 or so. And now look at it.

We'll see global shitter in stills cameras sooner rather than later.
Title: Re: Leica's new global shutter sensor? Unlikely: low DR
Post by: Peter McLennan on June 18, 2018, 09:20:49 pm
It is unlikely that this or any variant will be used in a still camera: its dynamic range is too low...

How does dynamic range in dB translate to stops of exposure latitude? 
That chip advertises about 64dB of dynamic range.

Title: Re: Leica's new global shutter sensor? Unlikely: low DR
Post by: SrMi on June 19, 2018, 12:24:18 am
.. global shitter..

Yep :-).
Title: Re: Leica's new global shutter sensor? Unlikely: low DR
Post by: BJL on June 19, 2018, 05:12:55 am
We'll see global shutter in stills cameras sooner rather than later.
I am also hopeful about that; just not with this generation of CMOSIS sensors. For now, a major impediment is that part of each photosite is used to store electrons “away from the light” after the frame’s exposure is ended, while they await the somewhat sequential read-out. That reduces well capacity and thus DR at base ISO speed. However, that is probably no impairment to low light performance, so global shutters might arrive first in still cameras oriented to action, and with an emphasis on both still and motion capture.

To Peter McLennan: the rough conversion is 6dB per stop, so 64dB is about 11 stops.
Title: Re: Leica's new global shutter sensor ?
Post by: Manoli on June 19, 2018, 08:22:44 am
That reduces well capacity and thus DR at base ISO speed. However, that is probably no impairment to low light performance, so global shutters might arrive first in still cameras oriented to action, and with an emphasis on both still and motion capture.

... such as the Sony A7s II replacement - short on DR but big on lowlight ISO. I doubt it's a 'might' more a question of 'when'.
Title: Re: Leica's new global shutter sensor ?
Post by: Manoli on June 19, 2018, 08:24:08 am
You have found the new iPhone sensor :)

Good to see you back, Edmund ..

Title: Re: Leica's new global shutter sensor ?
Post by: fredjeang2 on June 19, 2018, 02:55:59 pm
Except perhaps for high-end video capture?
Man, have you seen the prices of the anamorphic lenses?
Title: Re: Leica's new global shutter sensor ?
Post by: BernardLanguillier on June 20, 2018, 03:58:57 pm
My impression was that the techno announced by Pana a few months ago in terms of global shutter was significantly superior.

We’ll only know for sure when cameras using it will start to roll out.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: Leica's new global shutter sensor ?
Post by: BJL on June 22, 2018, 06:21:48 am
My impression was that the techno announced by Pana a few months ago in terms of global shutter was significantly superior.

We’ll only know for sure when cameras using it will start to roll out.

Cheers,
Bernard
Agreed: the description at
https://news.panasonic.com/global/press/data/2018/02/en180214-2/en180214-2.html
is far more promising; eliminating the roughly halving of well capacity (one stop headroom loss) that previous global shutter methods suffer from.
Title: Re: Leica's new global shutter sensor ?
Post by: eronald on June 28, 2018, 12:06:26 am
Agreed: the description at
https://news.panasonic.com/global/press/data/2018/02/en180214-2/en180214-2.html
is far more promising; eliminating the roughly halving of well capacity (one stop headroom loss) that previous global shutter methods suffer from.

I have the impression there used to be a global shutter chip called the CCD or BBD or something like that :) I mean the one used for video with one half of each photosite masked out :)

Edmund
Title: Re: Leica's new global shutter sensor ?
Post by: BJL on June 28, 2018, 03:38:39 am
I have the impression there used to be a global shutter chip called the CCD or BBD or something like that :) I mean the one used for video with one half of each photosite masked out :)

Edmund
Yes, that is the Frame Transfer type of CCD, with the same drawback of halving well capacity: http://hamamatsu.magnet.fsu.edu/articles/frametransfer.html

P. S. Not to be confused with the Full Frame type of CCD, as in all the Kodak CCDs for MF backs.

Title: Re: Leica's new global shutter sensor ?
Post by: eronald on June 28, 2018, 06:57:13 am
Yes, that is the Frame Transfer type of CCD, with the same drawback of halving well capacity: http://hamamatsu.magnet.fsu.edu/articles/frametransfer.html

P. S. Not to be confused with the Full Frame type of CCD, as in all the Kodak CCDs for MF backs.

Such a simple idea :) Plus ca change plus c'est la même chose.

Edmund