Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: WillyV. on October 03, 2006, 01:02:02 pm
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Hi! I would really like to get some feedback on the Mamiya ZD from the users on this forum. I don´t want to hear about other digital backs or thoughts but feedback from you guys who really use the camera. What kind of software do you use? Why? The camera has gotten a though start with everybody saying different stuff about the camera but have they really tested it? I really think there´s a lot of thinking and not testing... In advance thanks for your time and feedback!
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I too would be interested in a report of the ZD. I have been shooting Canon Digital for a few years now and would really like to try out medium format for the first time. I must say though that I dont want to invest $30k to do this which is why the ZD (and maybe the Pentax if they ever get it out) is so attractive.
Andy
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hi
Ive had my ZD for a couple of months now. It was a big step for me because where i live, Johannesburg, there is no backup and any services would have to go back to Europe! . (Although thats the same for the other digital backs too) At least the ZD was a lot less and not much more than a 1dsii. so far so good. I use cs2 for working on my raw files and the mamiya software for browsing and opening the files quickly.On location I would use a 12inch laptop to view as the screen is blue and very contrasty. A new 3.2 ghz dual core and 2gigs of ram seem to be ok for relatively fast processing. I havent timed it. As far as filling up the buffer goes I have only on one occasion had a problem.( this elephant was really close and I just kept my finger on the shutter!) up to 200 ISO its ok, long exposures do get some noise but really only visible at 100% and mostly shadows only.
I have just returned from a week at Victoria falls and 2 weeks at Mana Pools, Zambezi river. Very dusty hot and humid, and no electricity the last week! Although the sensor picked up a fair amount of dust, everything worked perfectly! Very handholdable, I even did a shot of some buffaloes with the 150 at 200iso at sunset and cropped I got a great a 10x13 inch print (on A3+ epson r1800) I have literally stopped using my canon because i like this camera so much. I am busy printing some images from this Zimbabwe trip and the images are great, pin sharp with smooth tonalities. When I could I used a tripod(manfrotto magfibre) which seems to be adequate for all the lenses except my 300mm.( I tend to get shutter vibration at lower shutter speeds, although with a heavier tripod this disappears.)
I like this camera because compared to the canon it slowes me down but not as much as my 4x5 used to and the quality is great. I havent experimented with different software because frankly I find all this endless debate and speculation on all these finer points a bit above my intellectual capabilities! I try to stick with what i've got and concentrate on taking more photographs.
The way I see it is that some guys tend to agonize for ever on what camera to buy and what will be the ultimate system. the price of the ZD takes alot of the angst out of the buying decision and I think enough owners have indicated their satisfaction with the image quality on these forums not to worry about that aspect of the camera. I would rather look at the negatives and decide if you can live with them, bearing in mind the price advantage. And thats a big advantage!
Thanks Ivan
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I have also owned my ZD for a couple of months. I am very pleased with it. Like most cameras, it has some faults, but the positives are many.
Image quality at low ISO is very high, at least the equivalent for good 6x7 drum scanned film (I have a drum scanner and used to shoot 6x7 film so I think I am qualified to say this). In its standard set up, it has no AA filter, so images are sharp and detailed, but you get occasional colour artifacts at the limits of resolution. These can be removed by using appropriate software, and generally I don't have an issue with this.
Dynamic range is also high. I use the camera for stock photography landscape etc. Its not a fast camera, so its no good for sports.
On the negative side, the rear screen is poor, with no 100% preview. All its good for is checking composition and histograms. I have no idea why Mamiya did not include a better screen, but maybe its to keep heat down, or maybe its a cost saving measure. You get used to it, and shooting tethered in a studio, its not an issue.
If you compare the ZD to some other medium format solutions, it looks like, and is, excellent value. As Ivan said, the price, compared with other megabucks solutions, takes the angst out of buying (although its hardly cheap). Its just a big dslr, with vastly superior image quality at low ISO.
I posted some samples in this thread:
http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=11724 (http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=11724)
They are not perfect, but give an idea at least of performance at just above base ISO.
Also read the most recent ZD review on this site, as its quite useful.
I strongly recommend using SilkyPix raw decoder with the ZD. Its better than the bundled PhotoStudio (which is OK). Ramp up the quality settings in SilkyPix to the max, reduce sharpening, and its a quick and efficient way to work, with great results. I rate SilkyPix above any other raw decoder currently available for the ZD.
Quentin
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This thing may be the deal of the century.
You can get a 150mm portrait lens used at B&H for $500:
[Mamiya Telephoto 150mm f/3.5 Autofocus Lens for 645AF]
And a new wide angle 35mm for $1350.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller...arch&Q=&ci=5326 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=NavBar&A=search&Q=&ci=5326)
Takes the sweat out of getting into MF.
I can not wait until this camera is available in the states!
QUESTION: how is the shooting speed when tethered to a computer?
Thanks!
-ronno
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Good point, the excellent AF lenses are not that expensive; the non-AF lenses that work in stop down mode are a giveaway. Goodness only knows what Hassy are thinking of with their pricing
As to shooting speed tethered, um, not sure, because although I have and do shoot tethered, I am not shooting quicky. It all works well enough, but it takes a few seconds to transfer each file by firewire to the computer. Mamiya digital PhotoStudio is actually reasonably good for tethered shooting.
Quentin
This thing may be the deal of the century.
You can get a 150mm portrait lens used at B&H for $500:
[Mamiya Telephoto 150mm f/3.5 Autofocus Lens for 645AF]
And a new wide angle 35mm for $1350.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller...arch&Q=&ci=5326 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=NavBar&A=search&Q=&ci=5326)
Takes the sweat out of getting into MF.
I can not wait until this camera is available in the states!
QUESTION: how is the shooting speed when tethered to a computer?
Thanks!
-ronno
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=78994\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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QUESTION: how is the shooting speed when tethered to a computer?
Thanks!
-ronno
Hi
It is easy to shoot into a computer & I have shot in both MAC/PC with no problems. The capture rate is the same as with flash cards incliuding the buffer. I always shoot RAW and now process my files with www.iridientdigital.com/products/rawdeveloper.html which does an amazing job with these files and is super fast! I also use a Canon 5D but the ZD is my camera of choice now. I use the ZD mostly with the 55-110 Zoom handheld. I tend to shoot at iso 50 most of the time. When Mamiya sells this camera they should inclide RAW processor. If Phase One comes on board just think how they could improve this camera. One thing about the ZD is that it has the same Dalsa chip as the Sinar E-motion 22 & Aptus 22. On Ad job I rent the Aptus 22 back and have the Zd as back up.
Thanks Denis
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Question to Ivan, Quentin and Denis:
Have you shot in low/available light? Can you post any examples? Do you think there is any significant noise? I'm waiting for the ZD back!
Thanks,
Kumar
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On Ad job I rent the Aptus 22 back and have the Zd as back up.
Thanks Denis
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=79007\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Out of curiosity Denis, why do you do this?
Why not use the ZD for the ad jobs?
-ronno
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Out of curiosity Denis, why do you do this?
Why not use the ZD for the ad jobs?
-ronno
Hi
We do a lot of people and shoot quickly so the buffer rate with the ZD fills up to quick. However if I am shooting editorial I use the ZD with the Canon 5D as backup. One Ad job we did recently we had to shoot an extra item to finish the AD and I used the ZD. Now with the new RAW processor developer the ZD files are very close to Aptus 22 files at iso 50. But one thing Mamiya has to do with the ZD is speed up the buffer rate. I also own a 645 AFDII & AFD body. If Phase comes on board with Mamiya the ZD could be improved. We have also just quoted a job and if we get the sign off both the Aptus 22 & ZD will be used on two different set ups to save time.
Thanks Denis
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Question to Ivan, Quentin and Denis:
Have you shot in low/available light? Can you post any examples? Do you think there is any significant noise? I'm waiting for the ZD back!
Thanks,
Kumar
Hi
What do you mean by this I could send you some MEF files by mail. My DSL is a pain. Contact me direct. Also Phase could be doing something with Mamiya by the end of OCT. ( If Mamiya walks away from the table on this one............... I truely think this is a good oportunity with the current market!!!) I shoot studio, plus I also take personal photos with the ZD (stock).
Thanks Denis
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Hi
What do you mean by this I could send you some MEF files by mail. My DSL is a pain. Contact me direct. Also Phase could be doing something with Mamiya by the end of OCT. ( If Mamiya walks away from the table on this one............... I truely think this is a good oportunity with the current market!!!) I shoot studio, plus I also take personal photos with the ZD (stock).
Thanks Denis
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=79035\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Denis, I shoot architecture and interiors, so that's what I'm looking for. Perhaps a restaurant or nightclub. If it's difficult to post images, it's okay. You could give us your impression of the noise levels in the kind of images you shoot. If Phase does a deal with Mamiya, we would have a choice of Dalsa or Kodak sensors, with the same software!
Cheers
Kumar
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I tried a 4 sec exposure on a church interior at 50 ISO and it was almost zero noise, decoded with SilkyPix.
Quentin
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Thanks for the feedback, I have a few more questions:
What makes the ZD files inferior to the Aptus files?
Do you think said differences will show in print? At what size?
Also, how would you compare the ZD's dynamic range to that of your Canon cameras?
Thanks@!
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I tried a 4 sec exposure on a church interior at 50 ISO and it was almost zero noise, decoded with SilkyPix.
Quentin
What about longer? 4 seconds is not really that challenging for digital capture these days.
As landscape photography fills a significant place in my revenue stream I often find myself
working in poor weather with marginal light and sometimes use a polarizer to remove
reflections from wet foliage in rainy or wet conditions.
Under these conditions it is not rare to find myself with exposure times of 20-30 seconds,even
during daylight hours.
Have you seen evidence that the ZD would perform well at exposures of this length.
My limited experience with recent generation Leaf backs (which use chips from the same
source as the ZD) suggests that this is not the case and this is a major impediment that
has,thus far,kept me from dropping the $$ on one of their products.
Thanks,
Mark
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Quentin
Under these conditions it is not rare to find myself with exposure times of 20-30 seconds,even
during daylight hours...
..My limited experience with recent generation Leaf backs (which use chips from the same
source as the ZD) suggests that this is not the case and this is a major impediment that
has,thus far,kept me from dropping the $$ on one of their products.
Thanks,
Mark
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=79064\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Mark, is this just with leaf backs or all digital backs you may haev tried?
Thanks,
Marc
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4 secs is the longest I have gone so far.
Dynamic range: I come from a Kodak 14nx which is known for its high dynamic range and the Mamiya beats it. If another back has more, my view is, so what? In absolute terms, the ZD has very wide dynamic range, and that's all that matters. Eventually you have to stop comparing and start using.
Quentin
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Mark, is this just with leaf backs or all digital backs you may haev tried?
Marc,
In recent weeks,I've had access to Phase P45, Hasselblad CF-39,and Leafs Aptus75 for
various lengths of time.
Based on what I'm seeing firsthand,the P45 is champion when it comes to long exposure
noise control and it isn't a stretch to get almost perfectly clean files with exposure times
well in excess of 60-90 seconds. Phase claims much longer,but I don't have any firsthand
knowledge.
The CF-39 files were very clean (with only a handfull of hot pixels) up to the 45 seconds
I tested it to for a long exposure city skyline well after sunset when the building lights
balanced with the afterglow in the sky. This was nice to see because the experience I have had
with previous 22Mp backs from Imacon was thet the previous models seemed to max out
around 20 seconds before hot pixels became so numerous as to render the image useless
for most applications in print.
The Aptus75,unfortunately seemed to max out when exposure times exceeded 10-12 seconds
and,to date,I haven't been shown a solution that deals with the numerous hot pixels in any
significant way nor have i seen anything that suggests my processing techniques or test back
is sub standard.
Mark
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In absolute terms, the ZD has very wide dynamic range, and that's all that matters. Eventually you have to stop comparing and start using.
Unfortunately,it's not all that matters if one regularly works under certain conditions and a
product being considered for purchase can't meet professional standards that are met with
other choices.
BTW,I'm not suggesting the ZD doesn't meet these needs only that I haven't seen anything
posted that indicates that it does.
Mark
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BTW,I'm not suggesting the ZD doesn't meet these needs only that I haven't seen anything
posted that indicates that it does.
Mark
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=79073\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Mark, what specific standards are you referring to?
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Mark, what specific standards are you referring to?
I suppose I used the wrong term. I guess using professional 'expectations' would
more accurately reflect what I was trying to say.
In my particular case,I would professionally 'expect' that a 16 x 20 print offered for sale
would not exhibit a high hot pixel count when using a particular digital back at long
exposures and low ISO setting.
As well,I just want to clarify that I was referring to only the single aspect of long exposure
noise characteristics in my previous posts and did not intend to characterize the overall
performance of one back or another as sub standard.
It's pretty obvious that everything on the market can deliver an amazing file in most situations
and the trick is to find the specific back which meets as much of our individual needs as
possible.
The ZD,with its attractive pricepoint,is certainly a contender but if it has similar long exposure
characteristics as I've seen on other Dalsa chipped backs then it's probably not going to be
the right fit for me regardless of price
That now seems to be more poiltically correct :>))
Mark
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I too am sitting on the fence on the purchase of the ZD but the only desision i need to make is whether to go for the ZD SLR or the ZD Back (assuming it appears-soon!!), taking price into the equation, I really can't see what the competition is. The Aptus 22 is obviously an amazing piece of kit but the main difference between it and the ZD seems to be in terms of shooting speed rather than image quality- Is this statement correct or is there really an obvious difference in the quality of the files produced? (that question is aimed squarely at Dennis -aka MCPHOTO who uses both systems!)
For me personally, I am not prepared to pay over twice the price for a faster image buffer,- remember how long it took to change a roll of 120 ?
Quentin mentions how he finds the quality coming from his ZD to be equal to that of a 6x7 drumscan! What more do we really need?
If the great Ansel Adams was about today and you gave him a ZD, do you think we would be looking at the results and thinking "mmm, if only he had used an Aptus or Phase one"
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If the ZD back was behind glass at Photokina, I doubt it's coming out soon. I have a post elsewhere on this forum with links to hires files of the Mamiya ZD and eMotion22. It's a decent camera, built like a brick shit-house, but you REALLY DO have to take care about noise though, anything above 100ASA is unnacceptable in my view. Why don't you rent one and see for yourself?
And yes, if Ansel Adams were around today, he'd probably be using Phase One! (on a view camera of course)
How much time do you have before you spend the $$$ ? The ZD should tumble soon in price.
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Um, who's atually selling it?
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I'm guessing you're in the USA? No luck then, it's for sale in Europe. I use these guys in London;
http://www.teamworkphoto.com/ (http://www.teamworkphoto.com/)
Nick
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Nick Vasilopoulos
http://www.stoqq.com (http://www.stoqq.com)
Um, who's atually selling it?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=79102\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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I'm guessing you're in the USA? No luck then, it's for sale in Europe. I use these guys in London;
http://www.teamworkphoto.com/ (http://www.teamworkphoto.com/)
Nick
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Nick Vasilopoulos
http://www.stoqq.com (http://www.stoqq.com)
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=79105\")
I purchased mine from Robert White, who were selling at well below anyone elses price as part of a summer discount, including a 80mm lens. Not sure if they have any new stock left. [a href=\"http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/]http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/[/url]
I'll give a 30 sec exposure a go. I'd probably switch to 8x10 film for that
Quentin
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Quentin
What about longer? 4 seconds is not really that challenging for digital capture these days.
hi
so its about 11pm here and I have just shot a couple of exposures at 8, 15 & 30 sec's.
Quite interesting exercise. I have not used the cs2 noise reduction before! so I am not quite sure what settings to use. At 15 sec viewed at 50% before sharpeing and noise reduction - noise only just visible in black areas. (Photographed my office with a 300w tunsten bounced of a white ceiling, light spillingthrough door onto floor and walls outside with a weak fluorescent light outside, green, and streetlamps. sky black with little detail in street.) Using a slider to increase blacks improved noise in black areas. With noise reduction I managed to elimate 90-95% of noise in black areas. Sharpening afterwards with focalblade set at soft didnt change much. But as I said I am a novice at noise reduction! Very little noise inareas where there were enough detail, texture and light. This is viewed at 50% on my 19inch monitor.
For myself, so far, wont have a problem exposing up to 15 sec.
Quentin - I am going to try silky pix. Is there a fee and howmuch? Any suggestions on noise reduction techniques?
Thanks and goodnight - Ivan
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Ivan,
SilkyPix is available as a fully functioning demo, therafter you have to buy, about $100 I believe. I have had my copy for some time. I keep coming back to it.
There is a quality slider that I usually make sure is set at the max (99). I reduce sharpening to "a little weak" or "weak", and generaly leave the NR setting set by SilkyPix alone as its set low and works well. At low ISO, no post development NR is needed.
Do read the online manual. Not all the settings are self explanatory, and the workflow is a little weird until you get used to it, then you realise its very intuitive. There are some very useful built in CA and distortion corrections, including perspective correction etc. For example, the Mamiya 35mm has some moustache distortion. Silkypix alows this to be corrected very well at the decoding stage - useful.
Quentin
Quentin
What about longer? 4 seconds is not really that challenging for digital capture these days.
hi
so its about 11pm here and I have just shot a couple of exposures at 8, 15 & 30 sec's.
Quite interesting exercise. I have not used the cs2 noise reduction before! so I am not quite sure what settings to use. At 15 sec viewed at 50% before sharpeing and noise reduction - noise only just visible in black areas. (Photographed my office with a 300w tunsten bounced of a white ceiling, light spillingthrough door onto floor and walls outside with a weak fluorescent light outside, green, and streetlamps. sky black with little detail in street.) Using a slider to increase blacks improved noise in black areas. With noise reduction I managed to elimate 90-95% of noise in black areas. Sharpening afterwards with focalblade set at soft didnt change much. But as I said I am a novice at noise reduction! Very little noise inareas where there were enough detail, texture and light. This is viewed at 50% on my 19inch monitor.
For myself, so far, wont have a problem exposing up to 15 sec.
Quentin - I am going to try silky pix. Is there a fee and howmuch? Any suggestions on noise reduction techniques?
Thanks and goodnight - Ivan
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=79107\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Thanks for that,Ivan. Sounds promising!
The 'noise' that I have had a problem with is less of the more normal chroma sort but a
type that manifests itself as very bright hot (red,white,and to a lesser degree blue) pixels.
Check out my post in these same Medium Format forums with the title 'Aptus Assist'
Here you will see a 100% crop of what I've been getting.
Thanks again for the test
Mark
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Ivan,
Thanks for doing the test. That's exactly the kind of image I'm looking for. Now if there was a way to get the raw file to Quentin, he could process it in Silkypix and post it for all of us to see.
Quentin,
I'm looking forward to your test as well, and if possible, to your interpretation of Ivan's image.
Cheers
Kumar
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I too am sitting on the fence on the purchase of the ZD but the only desision i need to make is whether to go for the ZD SLR or the ZD Back (assuming it appears-soon!!), taking price into the equation, I really can't see what the competition is. The Aptus 22 is obviously an amazing piece of kit but the main difference between it and the ZD seems to be in terms of shooting speed rather than image quality- Is this statement correct or is there really an obvious difference in the quality of the files produced? (that question is aimed squarely at Dennis -aka MCPHOTO who uses both systems!)
For me personally, I am not prepared to pay over twice the price for a faster image buffer,- remember how long it took to change a roll of 120 ?
Quentin mentions how he finds the quality coming from his ZD to be equal to that of a 6x7 drumscan! What more do we really need?
Hi
The way I shoot is in the studio ayt iso 50-100 as I want the best quality a back can deliver. I have used the ZD on location flash fill for editorial and the quaility is amazing. I have compared the same file to the Aptus 22 at iso 50 & the Aptus has the slight edge. I am blowing them up on the sreen to a 100% in the blue channel. The ZD was processed in RAW which made the huge jump in the ZD files ( night & day compared to MPS ).Even when I am shooting with the Apyus 22 I will always stay at iso 50 sometimes I have shot at iso 100. Overall I really like the feel & weight of the ZD. The screen is useable & readable outside. I have put a Delkin hood on it. The viewfinder has a bar showing how much is left in the buffer. Really get one and test it for yourself. I cannot believe that it hasn't been released in the US yet!! There is no camera like it at that price point and if they sold it with both SILK PIX & RAW they would have some very happy customers!!! If Phase comes on board & allow the ZD to work with Phase software that is going to be a bonus.
Thanks Denis
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Why do people periodically say that Mamiya is going out of business? Is there any solid evedence of this?
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Why do people periodically say that Mamiya is going out of business? Is there any solid evedence of this?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=79125\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
They don't look like they're going out of business. On the other hand, they look like they have organisational problems in the US, due to product line conflicts in the MAC group.
My feeling is that the ZD may at the moment be the bestselling MF camera in Europe.
Edmund
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My feeling is that the ZD may at the moment be the bestselling MF camera in Europe
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=79151\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I dont think so - I think robert white and teamwork both the one each that they cant sell hence slashing the price periodically
Make em an offer
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I wouldnt buy one because..
125 flash synch - and no low ISO unlike film - so restrictive for flash portrature outside on a sunny day
Mechanical failure of the body will render the back out of service
No view camera option reduces the options for T/S stitching etc
Hard to clean chip
An upgrade to 39mp will doubtless require desposal of the whole unit
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In terms of getting a hot pixel image the test must be something really dark - shadow areas on long exposures
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There are of course situations where this camera makes sense - say for a studio based mamiya afd owner with lens collection on a 'limited' budget or for natural light shooters who love the 'look' of '645' images and the joy of looking through a nice big screen
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Why do people periodically say that Mamiya is going out of business? Is there any solid evedence of this?
There's little evidence thus far that their distribution in NA is a sure thing. No one's talking, at least, audibly.
I've tried corresponding with the MAC group without success. B&H still has their listing with no delivery date forecast. I have had a brief discussion with Brian Lewington at Harry's Pro Shop in Toronto. Since that discussion he has posted pricing for the ZD on his website (http://harrysproshop.com/Mamiya_ZD/mamiya_zd.html). I plan on taking a trip there if he can get a demo sorted out. This thread is certainly a useful step forward. I appreciate you guys posting your impressions.
On the other hand, they look like they have organisational problems in the US, due to product line conflicts in the MAC group.
I'm not sure what you mean by this eronald? It appears more like synergy from my perspective.
As for the pricing, Robert White in the UK was selling the ZD recently for as low as 6k BP.
I'd be interested to hear about anything related to the IR & Low pass filter usage.
JBM
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"What about longer? 4 seconds is not really that challenging for digital capture these days."
I tried 30sec at 400ISO and it's simply not usable: there are along with tons of noise a lot of colour blotches populating the file, looks like some poor art student tried to imitate Seurat. I know it's a hard test but this long an exposure is sometimes necessary (had to do exactly this with my 5D two weeks ago and no problem at all).
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"What about longer? 4 seconds is not really that challenging for digital capture these days."
I tried 30sec at 400ISO and it's simply not usable: there are along with tons of noise a lot of colour blotches populating the file, looks like some poor art student tried to imitate Seurat. I know it's a hard test but this long an exposure is sometimes necessary (had to do exactly this with my 5D two weeks ago and no problem at all).
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=79158\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Did you try 30~45 sec at 100ISO?
Kumar
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hi
Thanks Quentin. I downloaded silkypix. Actually seems to be a very nice program so far.
30sec exposure: For all practical purposes no noise. A few lost, mainly blue pixels, in the black areas. Thanks. I learned something today. Silkypix is great for noise reduction and the ZD can easily handle 30sec exposures at 50iso with this program! Definately easier to use than CS2 - everything is done automatically! will try longer exposures and 100 iso later.
Thanks Ivan
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I dont think so - I think robert white and teamwork both the one each that they cant sell hence slashing the price periodically
Make em an offer
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I wouldnt buy one because..
125 flash synch - and no low ISO unlike film - so restrictive for flash portrature outside on a sunny day
Mechanical failure of the body will render the back out of service
No view camera option reduces the options for T/S stitching etc
Hard to clean chip
An upgrade to 39mp will doubtless require desposal of the whole unit
-------------
In terms of getting a hot pixel image the test must be something really dark - shadow areas on long exposures
-------------
There are of course situations where this camera makes sense - say for a studio based mamiya afd owner with lens collection on a 'limited' budget or for natural light shooters who love the 'look' of '645' images and the joy of looking through a nice big screen
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=79154\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hi So what camera would you buy?
Wouldnt a back upgrade require disposal of the old back as well. The ZD unit is far less expensive than just the competitions backs alone?
The shift lens will give you some flexibility for stiching.
It is easy to remove the ir filter and clean that.
I havent tried it yet but I know there are some lmanual leafshutter lense for mamiya. I dont know if they will work on the ZD. My shift lens works easily enough on manual focus and a spotmeter.
For me the competition is so restrictive on my wallet. That is one negative that I cant seem to solve. Meanwhile I will just go out and shoot a couple of pics today while some of you guys keep on agonizing which is the best remaining 'open' system to to spend a fortune on.
goodluck and thanks. Ivan
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I dont think so - I think robert white and teamwork both the one each that they cant sell hence slashing the price periodically
Make em an offer
------------
I wouldnt buy one because..
125 flash synch - and no low ISO unlike film - so restrictive for flash portrature outside on a sunny day
Mechanical failure of the body will render the back out of service
No view camera option reduces the options for T/S stitching etc
Hard to clean chip
An upgrade to 39mp will doubtless require desposal of the whole unit
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In terms of getting a hot pixel image the test must be something really dark - shadow areas on long exposures
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There are of course situations where this camera makes sense - say for a studio based mamiya afd owner with lens collection on a 'limited' budget or for natural light shooters who love the 'look' of '645' images and the joy of looking through a nice big screen
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=79154\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hi, If you buy a camera now (ZD) I´m sure that the Mamiya dealer will take your "old" unit as a trade-in when the new ZD (with 39MP will be out, if it will be). There´s always somebody that wants to pay a bit less than a new camera... So this is not a real problem, talk with your local dealer. Of course you can get problems with a digital solution and that´s the same with all brands. I don´t think there has been many problems with the ZD or am I wrong?
The chip is not to hard to clean and so far we´ve had very little trouble with dust on the sensor.
So as many has said before, test the camera and see for yourself! Thanks for all the nice feedback so far.
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I bet Mamiya wish they could have generated this much interest in the ZD earlier on. Their web sites are a disaster; they need better marketing.
Its probably premature to talk about a ZD Mk II when the current ZD is not yet on sale in the US All the recent reviews I have read have been very positive. I'm taking mine to Egypt at the end of October and hope to return with some decent shots.
Quentin
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Ivan..
"So what camera would you buy"
That depends so much on need and what you have - for ZD money ??
Probably a 5d and a tethered V system, maybe a 1DS2 alone and loads of lenses - maybe a ZD
PERSONALLY being big on outdoor flash I would go not ZD
"Wouldnt a back upgrade require disposal of the old back as well. The ZD unit is far less expensive than just the competitions backs alone?"
Fair point. the body is 'free'.
But what happens IF Mam bring out a body with a 'must have feature' maybe multipoint AF - your chip goes in the 'bin'. (Until last week) with a Hassy etc. you just got the new body - now all backs seem headed for the bin !!!
"some of you guys keep on agonizing"
I have a hassy and eyelike - the agony is over - my major error was to get a Proback/Mamiya on the cheap (for cash) and then sell it at a loss due to dark screen, focus errors, wide angle restriction and low flash synch - the more expensive solution has provided me with much better value becuase it actually does everything I want and in terms of a cost per month over three years the price difference it is only a small % of my business anyway - and it claimable back as an expense
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Willy
"I don´t think there has been many problems with the ZD"
The point I was making is that your kid/dog/assistant can snap the mirror out of any body or drop it onto its prism
With an integrated system (ZD) you are fully out of action until this is sorted with a MF system you can use a second body
The weak link in the chain is the mechanical bits, having these tied to the electronic expensive bit seems dangerous to me
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Ivan..
The weak link in the chain is the mechanical bits, having these tied to the electronic expensive bit seems dangerous to me
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=79210\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
You mean like every dslr made? I don't see 1Ds II owners fretting about their camera design being "dangerous"
Quentin
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But what happens IF Mam bring out a body with a 'must have feature' maybe multipoint AF - your chip goes in the 'bin'. (Until last week) with a Hassy etc. you just got the new body - now all backs seem headed for the bin !!!
I have a hassy and eyelike - the agony is over - my major error was to get a Proback/Mamiya on the cheap (for cash) and then sell it at a loss due to dark screen, focus errors, wide angle restriction and low flash synch - the more expensive solution has provided me with much better value becuase it actually does everything I want and in terms of a cost per month over three years the price difference it is only a small % of my business anyway - and it claimable back as an expense
With an integrated system (ZD) you are fully out of action until this is sorted with a MF system you can use a second body
Hi.
the ZD already has multipoint focus. You can choose via the rear controller which point to use.
Mamiya has a 35mm, same as others.
So far the Mamiya does everything I want.
Sure I have a problem if the body packs up, but where I come from all the cameras have that. Anything digital in med format has to be sent back to europe. Canons local service in any case, in my experience takes weeks.
My buying decision was made knowing that I will not buy anything else for the next four years.Had a look at the 5d. Was not that impressed and really made up my mind for me to go ZD route. Already had lenses for it and since then I've picked up really good and cheap others. 300mm for about 180usd! I am quite satisfied that the ZD will give me the quality and versatality I'm looking for, and so far I have not been disappointed in my expectations. The only people complaining are my clients, and thats because of the file size!
Thanks Ivan
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AF - I meant a newer faster version - sorry to be inaccurate
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I would fret about having ONE any thing - and have been since my ONE D100 went down at a wedding (years ago) luckily I had a few rolls of that funny stuff with me and a F100 - but the coolscan post production sucked big style. Ever since then I have considered DSLRs to be 'disposable'. I would go for 2 D200s over 1D2x two 5ds over a 1ds2 etc. I have three D1s - all bust - I am expecting my SLRn to die soon - the batteries are already an embarrasment
Most canon pros have a 5d or older 1 series for back up
As a client I would never employ any shooter with one digital body
Having back ups is part of my professional offer
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Two years ago on RG I was banging on about phase and leaf backs being tied into one system (as opposed to eyelike which take plates for different systems) It seems that the Hassy owning phase crowd are begining to see it 'my way' as they look to bale from hassy and can't
As with all MFDB gear I hope that these forums encourage exchange of information and viewpoints, the actual choice is always made by the individual in the end but forewarned is forarmed
Any way guys I am not saying the ZD is a bad thing - I think if the right set of circumstances are in place it could be a very good thing
Typically for non flash reliant Mam systems owners looking to go digital,
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Pardon my ignorance, but I simply don't travel ouside the US so don't have a clue. What is involved in getting a ZD to the United States? Is it simply a matter of the camera not being warranted here, or are the import fees 100% of the cost, or are they simply not allowed in this country for some reason? What about a tourist buying one in England and then brining it back to the US - is there anything other than import fees involved? It would be great if someone could educate this woodsman from the hills. Thanks!
Tim Ernst in Arkansas
www.Cloudland.net
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Pardon my ignorance, but I simply don't travel ouside the US so don't have a clue. What is involved in getting a ZD to the United States? Is it simply a matter of the camera not being warranted here, or are the import fees 100% of the cost, or are they simply not allowed in this country for some reason? What about a tourist buying one in England and then brining it back to the US - is there anything other than import fees involved? It would be great if someone could educate this woodsman from the hills. Thanks!
Tim Ernst in Arkansas
www.Cloudland.net
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=79319\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
tim, the buying part is easy...there are several places mentioned in this thread, there are several ZDs from respectable sellers on ebay...the import is less of a problem then you think...i have stuff shipped from europe all the time, customs never stopped any of my packages...i am sure that is something the dealers will explain to you...my big concern would be warranty...i would not want to rely on having to ship my camera overseas for repair....and as long as mamiya does not release the camera in the US that would be the only way....
i would not be surprised if mamiya does release it in the US before the end of the year, for a price under 10,000...it would be the only way they could sell any...to really make a noise and shake things up they would have to sell it head to head with the canon, so around 8,000...but they better hurry, i am sure the new canon will compete with the resolution of the ZD and will blow it out of the water in regards to speed, asa, noise and general handling....
don't forget the P20 is now officially 8,000 list price...
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I'm not interested in the ZD body, but I just wish the ZD back AND the ZD body were released at the same time. I would consider the ZD back to put on the RZ, but not the ZD camera.
Why did they hype the back and the body, and then only release the body? (not in America, of course).
This is simply the worst marketing I've ever seen. I can't even comprehend what these people are thinking.
They would've sold so many units in North America by now, I'm very sure of that. You know why? Because photographers like to buy lots of crap, and try them out, then possibly put them away in a closet, camera bag, or sell them on ebay.
But that ZD back could've been useful, if it was released 2 years ago.
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Oh, another thing:
Quentin, have you tried developing ZD files in Raw Developer? That program is working magic for Canon, Leaf, and Phase One users. You might wanna give it a try if you haven't already, or if you're on a Mac at least.
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Oh, another thing:
Quentin, have you tried developing ZD files in Raw Developer? That program is working magic for Canon, Leaf, and Phase One users. You might wanna give it a try if you haven't already, or if you're on a Mac at least.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=79338\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Not on a Mac. I'm now very comfortable with the SilkyPix workflow.
Much as I love my ZD, Mamiya should have given the ZD back priority and should have released it two years ago. The installed user based of Mamiya cameras would have lapped it up.
Quentin
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Oh, another thing:
Quentin, have you tried developing ZD files in Raw Developer? That program is working magic for Canon, Leaf, and Phase One users. You might wanna give it a try if you haven't already, or if you're on a Mac at least.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=79338\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
[/qu
Hi
I use the ZD as my main camera now especially for editorial & personal and now use Raw Developer. It is a fantastic program and takes 10 sec (ZD) & 7sec for my 5D. Amazing program for a $99.00 USD!!. I just came back from a trip and shot with the ZD with a 55-110 zoom on the plane out the window. It is a great camera for hand held stuff. But with RAW Developer it is even a better camera now. The files are very close to Aptus 22 files at iso 50. We shall see if Phase comes on board so we can run the ZD with PHASE software, that will be a big bonus.
Thanks Denis
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FYI:
I just looked at the Dalsa site. They have just anounced an 1100 MP 4" X 4" CCD sensor developed for the Naval Observetory.
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You mean like every dslr made? I don't see 1Ds II owners fretting about their camera design being "dangerous"
Quentin
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=79215\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I am on my third 1Ds shutter now.These camera do fail but Canon after sales is very good. I would say this camera design is like a Mercedes, lasts forever of you do the maintenance. But you have to do the maintenance. Canon has their superb CPS system for pros which can turn a camera around in a day.
Edmund