Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Landscape Photography Locations => Topic started by: mike517x on September 29, 2006, 04:19:41 pm
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On 10/31,I leave for a 4 week tour of Thailand.
I arrive in Bangkok,then travel north to ChiangMai,I will be in Chiang Mai for 8 days.
I return to Bangkok,then go south for 2 weeks to Hua Hin.
Can anyone recommend some places of interest to do some photography,as this is my first trip to SouthEast Asia.
Thanks for your help,
Mike
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The major temple complexes of Bangkok have much interesting photogenic architecture, utterly different from the western tradition.
If you like photographing photogenic old ruins, an easy day trip by train from Bangkok is to Ayutthaya (there are various ways it's spelled in English etc.), an earlier important capital of Thailand (back vaguely around the 1600's or so, if I recall correctly); it has endless old temples in various states of decay that are a lot of fun to wander about.
Haven't been to northern Thailand or the Hua Hin area, so no comments on those. If you can get farther south to Phang Nga Bay, however, it's incredibly photogenic, with cliff-edged small jungle islands you can visit by boat.
I was there several years ago, and found excellent food in Bangkok in a nice little restaurant called "Tongue Thai" (I promise the food is better than the name!) on a side street a couple of blocks from the Mandarin Oriental Hotel. "Hot Lime Sauce Beef", yummmmm!
Be prepared for serious heat and humidity, though.
Lisa
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On 10/31,I leave for a 4 week tour of Thailand.
I arrive in Bangkok,then travel north to ChiangMai,I will be in Chiang Mai for 8 days.
I return to Bangkok,then go south for 2 weeks to Hua Hin.
Can anyone recommend some places of interest to do some photography,as this is my first trip to SouthEast Asia.
Thanks for your help,
Mike
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=78307\")
Hi Mike
It depends what you are looking for. There is a awful lot to see.
How did you plan to travel around? Hire a car, Bus or Fly? Its along way from BKK to Chang Mai, Hau Hin is only a short trip from BKK.
Try these sites:
[a href=\"http://www.photographythailand.com/Forum/]http://www.photographythailand.com/Forum/[/url]
Mark Shultz's site, Register and ask members mostly living in Thailand.
http://www.trekearth.com/gallery/Asia/Thailand/ (http://www.trekearth.com/gallery/Asia/Thailand/)
Type in your final destinations for other peoples images of those areas.
http://www.thaivisa.com/ (http://www.thaivisa.com/)
Is the 2 weeks in Hua hin a "beach" holiday? If so, I would follow Lisas advice and go further south, Phang Nga Bay is the location of James Bond Island. The waters and beaches are cleaner also.
I extremly doubt if Lisa's nice little restaurant called "Tongue Thai" is still there though.java script:emoticon(':(')
smilie
Philip
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Mike,
If you have flexibility in your itinerary and timing, I would recommend some changes. 8 days in Chiang Mai is too much time for the town alone. The interesting part of it is within the town walls and this is a rather small area that you can cover adequately for both tourism and photos over a couple of days. A must while there is an excursion to Doi Suthep. This is the key highlight of Chiang Mai.
Bangkok is worth AT LEAST a week, because it is just so rich in temple complexes and palaces, markets, outdoor stuff worth photographing (Chinatown day and night for example) - one of those inexhaustible cities unless you are living there.
Lisa's suggestion to go to Ayutthaya is a very good one, but not by train. Ayutthaya is actually a very large area with a number of different complexes that are worth seeing and photographing, but you need transportation to get from one to the other. She is right about the heat and humidity - it is deadly under conditions of over-exertion if you are not accustomed to it. The best thing is to go in an organized bus tour that covers all the highlights there. Download some info about it from the net and select a tour that covers the key places - including the country Royal Palace complex.
Also a most important spot that you should NOT MISS is the Sukhothai area. You can fly there with Bangkok Airways (good airline) from BKK. Once there, you spend two days, and hire a driver to take you to the complexes of Sukhothai Historic Park and Sisatchanalai Historic Park, where there are huge photographic opportunities of ancient ruins embedded in rich oriental landscapes. This is the historic heart of ancient Siam and has informed a certain amount of modern Thai architecture giving a modern idiom to these ancient styles. Which reminds me - while in Bangkok visit the Sukhothai Hotel - a very special place.
It's a wonderful country with much to do, well organized for tourism, and people are gentle and helpful. If you do run into any issues - one word of advice - it is a culture which does not tolerate confrontation especially from outsiders - settle everything low-key with a smile. Enjoy.
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Mike,
If you have flexibility in your itinerary and timing, I would recommend some changes. 8 days in Chiang Mai is too much time for the town alone. The interesting part of it is within the town walls and this is a rather small area that you can cover adequately for both tourism and photos over a couple of days. A must while there is an excursion to Doi Suthep. This is the key highlight of Chiang Mai.
Bangkok is worth AT LEAST a week, because it is just so rich in temple complexes and palaces, markets, outdoor stuff worth photographing (Chinatown day and night for example) - one of those inexhaustible cities unless you are living there.
Lisa's suggestion to go to Ayutthaya is a very good one, but not by train. Ayutthaya is actually a very large area with a number of different complexes that are worth seeing and photographing, but you need transportation to get from one to the other. She is right about the heat and humidity - it is deadly under conditions of over-exertion if you are not accustomed to it. The best thing is to go in an organized bus tour that covers all the highlights there. Download some info about it from the net and select a tour that covers the key places - including the country Royal Palace complex.
Also a most important spot that you should NOT MISS is the Sukhothai area. You can fly there with Bangkok Airways (good airline) from BKK. Once there, you spend two days, and hire a driver to take you to the complexes of Sukhothai Historic Park and Sisatchanalai Historic Park, where there are huge photographic opportunities of ancient ruins embedded in rich oriental landscapes. This is the historic heart of ancient Siam and has informed a certain amount of modern Thai architecture giving a modern idiom to these ancient styles. Which reminds me - while in Bangkok visit the Sukhothai Hotel - a very special place.
It's a wonderful country with much to do, well organized for tourism, and people are gentle and helpful. If you do run into any issues - one word of advice - it is a culture which does not tolerate confrontation especially from outsiders - settle everything low-key with a smile. Enjoy.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=78435\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hi Again,
Want to thank all of you for your thorough replies and info.
Yes ,this is a tour starting in NY ,I got connected with one of the Thai communities here in NYC.
Chiang mai,is just one of the cities we will be visiting in northern Thailand,and yes,this is a bus tour.We land in Bangkok,stay 1 night,then fly to Chiang Mia.
So the first 8 days we will be visiting a few other cities in the north.
Then we are on our own.
One question though...I was told that this time of year .. is the Thai winter....should I expect very humid ,and hot weather,as you said?
Also,I'm bring 1 dslr,and 3 lenses,do you think that this might be overkill...I Do not want to be lugging around my camera bag,if its 105 degrees?
Lisa,I'll let you know if I find your favorite restuarant??? "tongue Thai"{very clever}
Thanks Again;
Mike
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I've been in Thailand ten times over a two year period, and let me assure you that the concept of "winter" is relative. If you are North American or EUropean, the place is hot and humid year round - it just gets a wee-bit less so this time of the year. Your gear is not overkill. The photo ops are extremely varied so you will use everything from wide angle to telephoto. Once you are on your own after Chiang Mai, this is how I would arrange the rest of the trip if it were me (because I've done it all except the South - I'm not a beach/sea person): I suggest you fly Bangkok Airways from there to Sukhothai, spend a couple of days there, then if you like World Class Monumental History, take Bangkok Airways from Sukhothai to BKK, transfer in BKK to Siem Riep Cambodia where you can spend a couple of days doing the Angkor Wat complex (need to hire a driver, the place is huge). I took hundreds of photos there - the place is UNBELIEVABLE until you've been there to experience the sheer scale and drama of it yourself. Once in that part of the World if that kind of stuff interests you it is a MUST. Then fly back to BKK for a week there, and finish up in the South.
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I've been in Thailand ten times over a two year period, and let me assure you that the concept of "winter" is relative. If you are North American or EUropean, the place is hot and humid year round - it just gets a wee-bit less so this time of the year. Your gear is not overkill. The photo ops are extremely varied so you will use everything from wide angle to telephoto. Once you are on your own after Chiang Mai, this is how I would arrange the rest of the trip if it were me (because I've done it all except the South - I'm not a beach/sea person): I suggest you fly Bangkok Airways from there to Sukhothai, spend a couple of days there, then if you like World Class Monumental History, take Bangkok Airways from Sukhothai to BKK, transfer in BKK to Siem Riep Cambodia where you can spend a couple of days doing the Angkor Wat complex (need to hire a driver, the place is huge). I took hundreds of photos there - the place is UNBELIEVABLE until you've been there to experience the sheer scale and drama of it yourself. Once in that part of the World if that kind of stuff interests you it is a MUST. Then fly back to BKK for a week there, and finish up in the South.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=78481\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Markds,
Thanks,more great info...
Yes,I was mis-informed about the weather,I did a google check and they said 18-32C...in Bangkok...the north, a little cooler-you were right.
I will definetly take your advise,and try to get over to Cambodia,this trip,if not ,next year.
My girlfriend {who was born in Bangkok}has not been home for 24 years,so,she has some catching up to do .{relatives,and school buddies}
My gear is simple,a canon dslr,a 17-40L,a 70-200L,nd a 50mmF1.8 for indoor shots.
I'll post some shots when I return,and let you know how I made out.
Thanks again,
Mike
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Mike,
Have a very good, safe trip and enjoy yourselves. Looking forward to seeing the photos.
Mark
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Hi Mike,
Sure it will be an exciting trip.
As mentioned earlier Bangkok and Thailand streetscape offer plenty of photo opportunities. Midday sun is very hard but morning and late afternoon has nice lights. Dont forget to just head out to some small town that is not on the tourist map, early mornings, eat some rice porridge and enjoy the atmosphere.
Around Hua Hin you have Kaeng Krachan National Park as well as Sam Roi Yod National Park, the last one in nearby Pranburi. Both offer good nature photography.
Both Ayutthaya and Sukhothai were mentioned. Ayutthaya is worthwile to take a tour, there by bus and back by boat on the river. Very nice to float down the chao praya river and arrive in Bangkok.
If you feel your camera bag is too light you may want to top up on equipment at www.fotofile.net, they also arrange 7% VAT return when you depart the country.
Thai people are very polite by nature, dont forget to return that politeness when taking photos.
Lastly a warning! You may like it so much here you may return over and over again.
Enjoy your trip,
Peter
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Hi Mike,
Sure it will be an exciting trip.
As mentioned earlier Bangkok and Thailand streetscape offer plenty of photo opportunities. Midday sun is very hard but morning and late afternoon has nice lights. Dont forget to just head out to some small town that is not on the tourist map, early mornings, eat some rice porridge and enjoy the atmosphere.
Around Hua Hin you have Kaeng Krachan National Park as well as Sam Roi Yod National Park, the last one in nearby Pranburi. Both offer good nature photography.
Both Ayutthaya and Sukhothai were mentioned. Ayutthaya is worthwile to take a tour, there by bus and back by boat on the river. Very nice to float down the chao praya river and arrive in Bangkok.
If you feel your camera bag is too light you may want to top up on equipment at www.fotofile.net, they also arrange 7% VAT return when you depart the country.
Thai people are very polite by nature, dont forget to return that politeness when taking photos.
Lastly a warning! You may like it so much here you may return over and over again.
Enjoy your trip,
Peter
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=78708\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hi Peter,
Thanks for the info about the river trip back to Bangkok..I will definetly take it.
NO,NO,NO on topping off my camera bag!!!I'm in hot water already,we dont want to go there...if you know what I mean??
I'll post some shots ,when I return.
Thanks Again,
Mike
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Mike,
I forgot to mention to you - when in BKK there are two important sites - the Grand Palace and Wat Pho (one is just down the street from the other) that you should do first thing in the morning - i.e. get to the ticket booth before they open. You will need most a morning for each. The reasons are: (1) primarily these places are seriously over-run by literally 1000s of tourists daily photographing eachother in front of the very places where you would like to make serious photographs; therefore you need to get there before most of them do. (2) The heat - you are walking around in large uncovered expanses of extremely hot air and pavement - by the way take a hat and bottled water. It is a bit more bearable in the early morning. (3) The light - the quality of the light around 8:30 AM is very nice and begins to get too harsh by around 10:30.
Mark
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Mike,
I forgot to mention to you - when in BKK there are two important sites - the Grand Palace and Wat Pho (one is just down the street from the other) that you should do first thing in the morning - i.e. get to the ticket booth before they open. You will need most a morning for each. The reasons are: (1) primarily these places are seriously over-run by literally 1000s of tourists daily photographing eachother in front of the very places where you would like to make serious photographs; therefore you need to get there before most of them do. (2) The heat - you are walking around in large uncovered expanses of extremely hot air and pavement - by the way take a hat and bottled water. It is a bit more bearable in the early morning. (3) The light - the quality of the light around 8:30 AM is very nice and begins to get too harsh by around 10:30.
Mark
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=78906\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hi Mark,
Thanks for this info...actually my better half is familar with these 2 temples....she grew up in this area.
However ,I will take your advise and get there early,we were told to get there around 11am.Is this info incorrect?
RSVP-me on this if you can,as I do want to visit these two temples.
Mike
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Hi Mark,
Thanks for this info...actually my better half is familar with these 2 temples....she grew up in this area.
However ,I will take your advise and get there early,we were told to get there around 11am.Is this info incorrect?
RSVP-me on this if you can,as I do want to visit these two temples.
Mike
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=79227\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Mike they open at 8:30 AM, close at noon and open again at 13:30.
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As you will probably be returning to Thailand, the suggestion to take a side trip to "Siem Riep Cambodia where you can spend a couple of days doing the Angkor Wat complex" is a great one. The complex is the most impressive sight in all my travels throughout the world. There are air travel tours of Vietnam, Cambodia, and Thailand, similar to the old days of England, France, and Germany, that are quite reasonable.
In addition to the photo gear you mentioned I would also take a small flash unit. The insides of the temples can be quite dark and well as the market places and other spots for photography and a little flash goes a long way to adding light and brightening colors.
I would also take a laptop and burn my images to DVDs during the course of the trip and travel with the DVDs in a separate piece of luggage. I take a plastic case that holds 10 blank DVDs and burn them as I go. The images are on the laptop and on the DVDs so I have an excellent chance of bringing them home with me.
Bruce
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Frankly, DVDs are not the best idea for image back-up. They can be unreliable due to burn problems and issues with the media itself. This technology is not as matured as CD-burning. I travel with a laptop for sure, with a large enough internal hard-drive to contain my whole photo shoot. As well I have a small LaCie portable USB drive 80 GB - it is about the size of a pack of cigarettes, has more than enough capacity and works very well off the laptop. I download everything from the laptop to the Lacie. Thirdly, I keep a set of RAW files in my Epson P-2000 up to its capacity. This takes CF cards directly, or can work with the laptop.
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Frankly, DVDs are not the best idea for image back-up. They can be unreliable due to burn problems and issues with the media itself. This technology is not as matured as CD-burning. I travel with a laptop for sure, with a large enough internal hard-drive to contain my whole photo shoot. As well I have a small LaCie portable USB drive 80 GB - it is about the size of a pack of cigarettes, has more than enough capacity and works very well off the laptop. I download everything from the laptop to the Lacie. Thirdly, I keep a set of RAW files in my Epson P-2000 up to its capacity. This takes CF cards directly, or can work with the laptop.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=90402\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I returned from my Thailand trip,and just wante to say thank you for all your help,and advise.
You were right...It's hot!!!..In a hasty moment,I managed to DELETE 2gbs of shots from my memeory card by mistake.I was reviewing a shot I had just taken ,and went to delete it..and hit the delete ALL button.A word of cautuon to anyone going to Thailand,sometimes the heat can to you..make sure you review your images when you are well rested,and in a air conditioned space.
Here's a few images I did mange to keep.[attachment=1359:attachment][attachment=1360:attachment][attachment=1361:at
tachment][attachment=1362:attachment][attachment=1363:attachment][attachment=1364
:attachment][attachment=1365:attachment]
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Mike,
Sorry to hear about the misfortune of losing all those shots, especially as the ones you posted are very attractive. That is so frustrating. This unfortunate experience reinforces my paranoia about deleting anything on a CF card until the whole thing is backed-up in at least two other places. I thought maybe I am a bit "hyper", but your story confirms strict adherence to this practice. Yes, the heat in Bangkok can cause one to make mistakes. Now, if you are using Sandisk (and perhaps this works for others too - I don't know) and if you haven't over-written that card yet, Sandisk provides a utility called RescuePRO Recovery Software that may be helpful for such rescue operations. They say: "Esnures your photos will always be there (even if you accidentally delete them) - your case exactly. They say to visit: www.lc-tech.com/rescuepro or phone 1.866.603.2195 for their tech support hotline.
Turning to the stuff that did work: could you please tell us where these were taken - especially the large white temple, and the one with the two decorated cement elephants.
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Mike,
Sorry to hear about the misfortune of losing all those shots, especially as the ones you posted are very attractive. That is so frustrating. This unfortunate experience reinforces my paranoia about deleting anything on a CF card until the whole thing is backed-up in at least two other places. I thought maybe I am a bit "hyper", but your story confirms strict adherence to this practice. Yes, the heat in Bangkok can cause one to make mistakes. Now, if you are using Sandisk (and perhaps this works for others too - I don't know) and if you haven't over-written that card yet, Sandisk provides a utility called RescuePRO Recovery Software that may be helpful for such rescue operations. They say: "Esnures your photos will always be there (even if you accidentally delete them) - your case exactly. They say to visit: www.lc-tech.com/rescuepro or phone 1.866.603.2195 for their tech support hotline.
Turning to the stuff that did work: could you please tell us where these were taken - especially the large white temple, and the one with the two decorated cement elephants.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=90427\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Mark..thank you for that info about rescuepro recovery.
We did 9 temples in 7 days..and...to be honest ..I was a little Templed-out,but the white temple was really something to see.
The white temple,or"Wat Rong Karn"..was taken in Chiang Mai.
The Buddha shot was taken in ChiangRai,very near to the Burmese border,the golden triangle area.
Here's a few more images from the White Temple area..same location
Mike[attachment=1367:attachment][attachment=1368:attachment]
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Thanks alot Mike. We missed that temple when we were in Chiang Mai - maybe there will be a next time. Looks like a great site.
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I just returned yesterday from one month at Siem Rieap, one month in Nepal mostly trekking in the mountains, and 3 weeks in Thailand. I took with me a very compact Dell laptop with 80GB HD & DVD drive, a LaCie pocket 100GB external drive and about 20 blank DVD discs.
Before I left Cambodia, I'd filled the LaCie external drive, used all the blank DVDs and had to buy another 25 DVD spindle of blanks in Siem Reap.
As a rough estimate, I've shot about 200GB of images on my 5D and 20D, all recorded twice on a combination of either the LaCie external drive, the laptop HD and/or DVD disk.
The temples around Angkor Wat are the most amazing photographic opportunity on the planet, but there's one major drawback... those damned tourists!
They get in the way all the time. It seems everyone wants to be photographed standing next to, or in front of, anything amazing and wonderful. Sometimes a tourist guide leading a group of 20 or so Koreans carries a bag containing all members' P&S cameras. The whole group will pose in front of some amazing root structure growing over a ruined temple, and the guide will slowly take a photo with each member's camera, sometimes having difficulty operating the camera, which causes further delay. In the meantime, yours truly is waiting patiently in the wings for the crowd to disperse, wondering if any purpose will be served by returning half an hour later, by which time another group might well have taken the place of the first group.
BTW, I lost 10kgs trekking in Nepal. Better than any diet .
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Hi Ray,
I just LOVED your description of the photography conditions at Angkor Wat. Firstly, I agree with you - it is one of the planet's greatest photography locations, and secondly - yes, one has to keep reminding onself that other people have photography rights also and there are hoardes of them and they can't resist being photographed square in front of the best shots one could hope to make. There are two solutions to this problem: (1) go there off-season and off-peak hours (which I was fortunate to have been able to do) or (2) just have enormous amounts of patience. One has exactly the same problem - actually multiplied - in China, where DOMESTIC tourism has taken off with a vengeance - and you know - I respect that - those folks were so couped-up and deprived for so many decades - they now have the freedom and the means to see their own country and they are doing it in spades. Good for them, and a true test of perseverance on the rest of us!
And yes, trekking around those sites with gear is an excellent way to get in shape -and lose weight (not that I have much lose). It's the motivation.
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There are two solutions to this problem: (1) go there off-season and off-peak hours (which I was fortunate to have been able to do) or ....[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=90697\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Mark,
I thought I was going off-season when I arrived in mid September. There was still quite a bit of rain around. The Tonle Sap was at its height. The Siem Reap streets got quickly flooded on the days it rained, but tourism seemed at least as high as it was the previous year in December, so what it's like right now I shudder to think.
This is a place where tourist numbers or on the rise. It's probably the most 'booming' place in Cambodia with new hotels springing up all over the town.
When I visited in April this year, a shower of rain flooded 'Pub Street' (the tourist centre with restaurants such as 'Angkor What?' and 'Funky Buddha') to such an extent that local kids rushed out with mock polystyrene boats, paddling up and down the street, having great fun.. 5 months later, the drainage has been fixed and the street seems immune to flooding.
If anyone is is seriously interested in photographing the Angkor Wat area, I recommend you get in there fast before it becomes impossible to take a shot without a horde of tourists in the foreground.
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Ray,
The advice I got from the Manager of the hotel I stayed in was that September is actually the best month of the year for photography there, because it is supposed to be when the rainy season is just trailing off (NORMALLY - but nothing is normal these days), so the vegetation is at its greenest. So if enough people know this, it would not be the off-season any longer! Anyhow, from my experience, given the sheer size and varied economic profiles of the populations in East Asia, I think the concept of *off-season* is probably a misnomer. For our purposes it will be on-season year-round.
Yes, I know it is the fastest growing tourist area in the country. My purpose in being there was actually to help evaluate economic options for improving power supply, because with all the tourist infrastructure being developed and related population influx there was an urgent need for increased electricity supply - as well as all other infrastructure. When you think of it, this kind of explosive commercial growth puts tremendous stress on the environment and on all the ancillary services such as water, roads and power needed to support it.
Well, all the more power to them if they can carry it off successfully.
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My purpose in being there was actually to help evaluate economic options for improving power supply, because with all the tourist infrastructure being developed and related population influx there was an urgent need for increased electricity supply - as well as all other infrastructure. [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=90703\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Mark,
Is that so? I gathered that an electricity link with Thailand was under construction at the time I was in Siem Reap, and due for completion in a few months. In fact, when I left Siem Reap, throwing away my cheap airline ticket with Air Asia from Pnom Phen to Bangkok, preferring to travel by road to the Thai border, I noticed the power line poles, under construction, along the highway.
Did I say highway? . That trip was also an amazing photographic opportunity. Parts of the road were under such extreme flooding that cars and taxis were queueing up to be towed by tractor through 4 ft or more of water. The water flowed into the floor of my taxi causing my feet to get soaked. I was left with the feeling that the cost of my taxi fare was far less than the cost of the damage to the taxi as a result of this flooding, but oddly enough, the taxi driver quite enjoyed the experience, as I did. I guess it wasn't his taxi.
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Ray,
Yes - that's the project - at the early preparatory stage my job was to help assess the generic merits of a link with Thailand versus local alternatives. They are doing the right thing.
If you have a chance to post some pictures or point to a website that would be a real treat.
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If you have a chance to post some pictures or point to a website that would be a real treat.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=90728\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Well, I've got thousands of images to process and the monitor I'm on at the moment hasn't been calibrated for 6 or 9 months (it's not mine ) but it's good enough to knock up a few snapshots to give you an idea of the road conditions and state of progress of the construction of those power lines. I suspect they are more than a bit behind schedule.
I think this could accurately be described as the worst road I've had the excitement of travelling along .
[attachment=1381:attachment] [attachment=1382:attachment] [attachment=1383:attachment]
[attachment=1384:attachment] [attachment=1385:attachment] [attachment=1386:attachment]
[attachment=1387:attachment]
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Ouch.
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Thanks for posting those Ray. What a huge disaster.
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Mark,
I got the impression this sort of thing happens every year. Some people say the reason this road from Seam Reap to the Thai border has not yet been upgraded has to do with issues of economic trade between Siem Reap and Cambodia's capital, Pnom Phenh. A good road link to Thailand would result in a massive amount of trade coming through to Siem Reap, which is already prospering because of the huge influx of tourists. The fear is that Pnom Phenh would tend to get left behind in economic development.
The road between Siem Reap and Pnom Phen is apparently quite good, although I haven't travelled along it, preferring to get from Pnom Phenh to Siem Reap by speed boat along the Tonle Sap.
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Angkor Wat in this thread is described as "the most impressive sight in all my travels throughout the world" and "one of the planet's greatest photography locations".
Have you been to the Great Walls, the Pyramids, or Machu Picchu, etc.? Similar to Angkor Wat, these locations also offer photo ops of bygone civilizations and architectures. While each location offers something special, does Angkor Wat offer something extra?
Not doubting your claims, just wondering how Angkor Wat stands out above the rest in your opinions.
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Not doubting your claims, just wondering how Angkor Wat stands out above the rest in your opinions.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=90956\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Angkor Wat is just one major temple, perhaps the most impressive, surrounded by a moat 1km on each side. There are in fact hundreds of temples within an area of several hundred square kilometres of jungle, some more accessible than others and some in a greater or lesser state of disarray.
What seems to distinguish the ruins around Angkor Wat from other impressive ruins, such as the Egyptian pyramids and the Great Wall of China, is the sheer amount of decorative sculpture, carvings and bas reliefs on almost every square inch of rock.
The fact that all this is set in a damp jungle environment where massive tree roots can be seen clinging to, and gradually breaking up the even more massive stone structures, creates a sense of dynamism and mystery which I find very alluring.
From the photographic point of view, there's an enormous variety of texture, light and shade, shape and form, which varies from season to season and time of day. It's the sort of place one really needs to spend a year or two. The combination of variable weather and large numbers of tourists makes if frequently difficult to get the shot one has in mind, at a particular spot. For example, the sun's just right, the subject has interesting shadows, but a group of tourists are busy photographing each other. One waits patiently for them to move on. They eventually do, but the sun then moves behing a cloud. So one waits a bit longer for the sun to come back out, and just as it does, another group of tourists arrives on the scene to repeat the same charade of photographing each other.
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You'll have a fantastic time no matter where you go, Mike, and I can't really add much to the thread that hasn't already been covered -- some great advice in here!
I was in Thailand and Cambodia for two months about 3 years ago and think about going back basically every day. Especially to Cambodia, it's such an incredible place.
Here are just a few shots from that trip. (http://homepage.mac.com/hannaimaging/travel/index.html) I haven't really managed to get any of the others scanned and cleaned up yet
Quite a few were taken in Bangkok, actually. I spent about three weeks there total, since it was just too fascinating.
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When we were in the Angkor Wat region a few years back (something like 2003), we found the best way to avoid crowds for photography purposes was to do it during the standard noonish-to-twoish break when the tours go back to town for lunch. There were about one-tenth the visitors during other hours, and few if any group tours. Whether this is still true, I don't know.
Lisa
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They eventually do, but the sun then moves behing a cloud. So one waits a bit longer for the sun to come back out, and just as it does, another group of tourists arrives on the scene to repeat the same charade of photographing each other.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=90974\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
There should be a law.............
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When we were in the Angkor Wat region a few years back (something like 2003), we found the best way to avoid crowds for photography purposes was to do it during the standard noonish-to-twoish break when the tours go back to town for lunch. There were about one-tenth the visitors during other hours, and few if any group tours. Whether this is still true, I don't know.
Lisa
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=90981\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Lisa, I also heard that. It's probably still true to a degree, but as the place gets more crowded, those quiet periods also get more crowded. In any case, the sun is not necessarily ideal at that time of day, especially for bas reliefs, and some interesting spots may not be illuminated at all during those hours.
I was surprised to find that most of the sun worshippers who congregate on the banks of the lake at 5.30am to shoot Angkor Wat at dawn, seem to be anxious to return to their hotels for breakfast after the sun has risen. The seems an ideal time to climb those steep steps to the top of the temple and photograph the early morning sun on the carvings.
(But I shouldn't be mentioning this . Next time I visit the place, those early morning quiet periods will probably be lost also.)
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Lisa, I also heard that. It's probably still true to a degree, but as the place gets more crowded, those quiet periods also get more crowded. In any case, the sun is not necessarily ideal at that time of day, especially for bas reliefs, and some interesting spots may not be illuminated at all during those hours.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=90984\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
It seems to me that there's a pattern for most visitors. They seem to start with Angkor and Bayon - the first temples one encounters when entering the area - and then move north.
A good strategy might be to move quickly to the more northern sites and work your way back south as the day proceeds. The hot, middle of the day, lunch break time is a good time for interior shots.
Some of the temples such as Bayon with its massive carved faces call for morning light as they generally are located on the eastern sides of the temple. Angkor faces west and late afternoon shots might be best once the tourists have worn themselves out for the day.
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Additionally, I ran across a site which offers to 'fix' your photos of popular places in order to get rid of the tourists. Basically the technique is to take multiple exposures (best off a tripod) so that you have frames in which can be combined to create a tourist-free image. Layer up your frames and erase the tourists.
It won't work if there are constant streams of tour groups, but it will take care of the annoying few souls who wander into your frame. (I plan on trying it out starting in a couple of weeks as I head back to SEA.)
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In this discussion of impressive historical sites, don't leave out Bagan (Patan) in Myanmar (Burma - for you Brits who can't let go of Empire).
Two thousand temples and two thousand piles of bricks that used to be temples. Massive temples such as Gawdawpalin Pahto and Thatbyinnyu Pahto. Incredible light during the 'golden hour' due to the atmospheric dust.
And a taste of life as it used to be. Men who have yet to adopt western 'pants', people traveling by ox cart and farming with animals. A rare chance to see back into the past.
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You'll have a fantastic time no matter where you go, Mike, and I can't really add much to the thread that hasn't already been covered -- some great advice in here!
I was in Thailand and Cambodia for two months about 3 years ago and think about going back basically every day. Especially to Cambodia, it's such an incredible place.
Here are just a few shots from that trip. (http://homepage.mac.com/hannaimaging/travel/index.html) I haven't really managed to get any of the others scanned and cleaned up yet
Quite a few were taken in Bangkok, actually. I spent about three weeks there total, since it was just too fascinating.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=90977\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Gabe,
I agree ,this is one of the best photography sites on the web.....
Yes,it was unfortunate.....I was one unhappy "falang"..Luckily though ,my better half,did manage to get some of the shots I deleted,or similar ones.
Some shots of Sukhothai were lost,but ,now ,I have a good excuse to re-visit Thailand.
Mike
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A good strategy might be to move quickly to the more northern sites and work your way back south as the day proceeds. The hot, middle of the day, lunch break time is a good time for interior shots.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=90993\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Another secret revealed!! I suppose when I try to visit Preah Khan at 8am on my next visit, the place will be be swarming with photographers .
Still, I've already got my shots.
[attachment=1393:attachment]
Oops! Someone standing in the way again .
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Oops! Someone standing in the way again .
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=91070\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Another one of those blankety-blank tourists, no doubt. I think she's holding a fingernail cam.
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Another one of those blankety-blank tourists, no doubt. I think she's holding a fingernail cam.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=91087\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The truth is, I hired the dancer to accompany me to Preah Khan in the early morning when I believed there would be few tourists around. Unfortunatelyh, the sun did not co-operate and the lighting was flat, but what could I do!!
For those not familiar with Khmer culture, almost all the temples are adorned with bas reliefs of celestial nymphs called Apsaras. Prince Sihanouk's mother tried to revive this ancient tradition of dancing, so today in certain reastaurants in Siem Reap, the tradition is continued and one can see it and photograph it for the price of a buffet dinner.
Unfortunately, the backdrop on stage is a bit tacky. A modern Apsara against the original, ancient backdrop would be preferrable, I thought.
But what to do with those masses of tourists? I did exactly as Bob has now suggested. Went to the outer temples early in the morning.
Actually, the reaction of other tourists is rather amusing when they came across me photographing a contemporary Apsara(s). Most of them wanted to be photographed standing next to the dancer. They weren't at all interested in photographing the dancer in front of a spectacular piece of ancient architecture.
It seems to me, that for the most part, the average tourist is most intereasted in placing himself/herself in front of, or beside, any thing (or person) interesting and exotic.
Can we draw some deductions and inferences with regard to, perhaps, the mundane, suburban existence of the average tourist who perhaps craves for any association at all with the unusual and exotic? Or am I being too analytical?
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I certainly draw some deductions and inferences, but I won't show them here on this family-oriented website.
Joking aside, I like your photo very much, Ray. And I think the soft lighting shows the dancer and the temple to very good effect. Thanks for sharing it.
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Thanks for the kind comment, Eric.
I'm now going to ask anyone reading this to offer a critique, to blast it if they like, to rubbish it if they like, to tell me what they don't like about the image.
Any offers?
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Ray, that photograph is technically very well implemented and it draws the viewer - it has a bit of mystery - is it an exotic fashion shot, a poster for a Khmer dance performance, or simply a lady in traditional dress posing in dance mode at the Angkor complex? Could be any or all of the above. I liked it and would draw no other inferences about it - good for family viewing and commentary.
As for the tourists - let's face it - they have their rights too. I get just as frustrated as anyone else - having recently returned from Barcelona where the scenario is identical at the key attractions. I also experienced the same things in Paris 50 years ago (yes, five-zero). Like the flu, this is just a fact of life we photogs just have to "grin and bear it and work around it". Their motivation: simple: - "I've been there - here's the evidence - and look at who I hung-out with! We all want our moment in the limelight or in the something special, don't we?
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Thanks, Mark, but I get a sense of political correctness here. There must be some serious flaws in the image. What about the orientation of her pose in relation to the background, the conflict between the detail in her surroundings and the detail in her person, the lack of a suitably plain background for those marvelously intricate hand movements. These are the sorts of things that worry me.
The fact is, in the words of the Rolling Stones pop group, I can't get no satisfaction.
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Thanks, Mark, but I get a sense of political correctness here. There must be some serious flaws in the image. What about the orientation of her pose in relation to the background, the conflict between the detail in her surroundings and the detail in her person, the lack of a suitably plain background for those marvelously intricate hand movements. These are the sorts of things that worry me.
The fact is, in the words of the Rolling Stones pop group, I can't get no satisfaction.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=91178\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
If there are flaws, I don't see them. I went back to look at it again (because I like the image ), and this time I observe that both hands are located in front of darkish background areas, which shows the fingers off very well. And the reverse curvature of the fingers shows clearly that she is a trained dancer, and not simply a "lady in traditional dress posing in dance mode." (Just try it yourself!)
And now I see that some of the curves in the stone archway echo the curves of the dancer's arms and fingers.
So, Ray, we're just going to have to agree to disagree: I say it's a very nice photo.
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So, Ray, we're just going to have to agree to disagree: I say it's a very nice photo.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=91197\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Eric,
You are too kind! I can't believe this is a good photo. It's contrived and lacklustre. Artificial and staged. The lady is beautiful but the context is ridiculous.
C'mon you critics! Let's have some real criticism. Where's your voice? Am I on the wrong forum?
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Actually, the reaction of other tourists is rather amusing when they came across me photographing a contemporary Apsara(s). Most of them wanted to be photographed standing next to the dancer. They weren't at all interested in photographing the dancer in front of a spectacular piece of ancient architecture.
It seems to me, that for the most part, the average tourist is most intereasted in placing himself/herself in front of, or beside, any thing (or person) interesting and exotic.
Can we draw some deductions and inferences with regard to, perhaps, the mundane, suburban existence of the average tourist who perhaps craves for any association at all with the unusual and exotic? Or am I being too analytical?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=91202\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I suspect it's not being too analytical, but misunderstanding purpose.
You're approaching the situation as a photographer. Your interest is in taking a good picture.
The "tourists" are not interested in making a work of art image, they're after a personal record. They are using their cameras to capture an "I was there!" moment that they can show to the folks back home and use to sharpen their memories decades from now.
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Eric,
You are too kind! I can't believe this is a good photo. It's contrived and lacklustre. Artificial and staged. The lady is beautiful but the context is ridiculous.
C'mon you critics! Let's have some real criticism. Where's your voice? Am I on the wrong forum?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=91202\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Contrived, lacklustre, and staged pretty much sums up my thoughts when I saw it.
That and poorly posed.
That direct enough for you? ;o)
The pose - shot too much from the front. Her raised foot is obscured. And she is looking directly at the camera which eliminates any "caught in the moment" feeling.
I think you might have pulled off something interesting had you looked for an intact as possible part of a temple. And had her actually dance so that you could rip off a bunch of shots in hopes of capturing a feeling of movement as opposed to a static pose.
Against this background, the partially tumbled temple and dominating tree trunks, she doesn't belong. She's too intact, too fresh.
Perhaps dancing in the foreground with a fog shrouded Angkor in the background.
Perhaps darting past an open doorway.
Somehow more of a fleeting spirit caught out of time.
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Contrived, lacklustre, and staged pretty much sums up my thoughts when I saw it.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=91210\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Well, there you are! An honest critique at last. It almost echos my thoughts. It's nice. The lady is beautiful. The background is exotic. I like the moss on the rocks. etc, but the staging is not quite right, and I'm the director, after all.
I want you to know, Bob, that I'm not going to assasinate you for that opinion .
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So do I get credit for goading Bobtrips into giving you a good, honest critique?
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Well, there you are! An honest critique at last. It almost echos my thoughts. It's nice. The lady is beautiful. The background is exotic. I like the moss on the rocks. etc, but the staging is not quite right, and I'm the director, after all.
I want you to know, Bob, that I'm not going to assasinate you for that opinion .
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=91214\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
In case you change your mind, how about we go with a "first come, first served" policy?
That, of course, would mean taking yourself out first. I did copy your post to a great extent.
But, that aside, what are your thoughts now that you've left the scene of the crime?
How would you redo your apsara shoot? (Looks to me as if you're another guy with a SEA monkey on his back, like me. I suspect you'll return to the scene. ;o)
I shoot a lot of people candids when I travel. And because of that I value long lenses - superzooms. Having a lot of zoom allows me to reach in and grab things that I could never arrange, such as this....
(http://img3.jeber.com/Photos/4/f/2297.jpg)
I've never attempted to pose a subject. I suspect that is a skill that would not come easy.
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Critique depends on context and purpose as much as on technical nitty gritty. To critique this photograph in itw own right, one needs to start from the premise that it was a deliberately posed photograph that can serve any of a number of purposes I mentioned above. As a deliberately posed photograph intended to show a cultural aspect of a performer in an evocative historical context, it does that. I like the way she is poised on the stone step and framed by the tree root. Yes, the pose is contrived, but purposely so. It's important to the context to see what is in the background, so blurring it would not have been a good idea. If this were intended to be anything else than what it is, there are other things one could say about it, as Bobtrips mentioned before. But I'm taking it for what it is. Could you have made a different kind of photograph for a different purpose? Yes. Could it have been better? Always a possibility. But I think it important to distinguish between a critique of the intent and a critique of the work.
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Contrived, lacklustre, and staged pretty much sums up my thoughts when I saw it.
That and poorly posed.
That direct enough for you? ;o)
The pose - shot too much from the front. Her raised foot is obscured. And she is looking directly at the camera which eliminates any "caught in the moment" feeling.
I think you might have pulled off something interesting had you looked for an intact as possible part of a temple. And had her actually dance so that you could rip off a bunch of shots in hopes of capturing a feeling of movement as opposed to a static pose.
Against this background, the partially tumbled temple and dominating tree trunks, she doesn't belong. She's too intact, too fresh.
Perhaps dancing in the foreground with a fog shrouded Angkor in the background.
Perhaps darting past an open doorway.
Somehow more of a fleeting spirit caught out of time.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=91210\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Bob,
I think I should critique the critique here. You make some good points in general but which might not apply to this specific situation.
The contrast of the new and old was deliberate. That was the intention, so your suggestion that she's too fresh seems way off mark. These temples are full of bas reliefs depicting fresh, young ladies, statically posing and staring directly at the viewers as though inviting them in. The apsara style of dancing generally lacks dynamic movement. Movements are meticulously slow and deliberate, seeming to consist of just a series of poses with different gestures of hand and feet. In fact I was surprised to learn there are about 4000 different gestures of hand and feet which all mean something, like 'flower', 'leaves', 'fruit' etc, but it's difficult to find out what exactly most of them do mean. The internet is not throwing up much, apart from a few basic examples and unfortunately, this young lady I hired as a model spoke very little English. Most of the time, I just allowed her to get into whatever pose she thought appropriate.
What would I do different? It's difficult to say at this point. I have literally hundreds of shots of this lady in different poses against different backgrounds. It's going to take time to sort through them and find what works and what doesn't.
I think you might have pulled off something interesting had you.....
What!! You didn't even find it interesting?
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(http://img3.jeber.com/Photos/4/f/2297.jpg)
I've never attempted to pose a subject. I suspect that is a skill that would not come easy.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=91227\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Bob,
I think perhaps I should return the favour and offer a comment on your candid shot of the tattooed ..errh.. lady.
First I should mention that I have my own prejudices and a slight prejudice against tattooed people is one of them. I simply don't understand the desire of anyone who wants to be tattooed, if it's permanent. I suspect the tattoos in this shot are not permanent, but one can't be sure. One can't even be sure if the subject's a lady or a bloke.
It's a candid documentary style shot of a very colorful freak show. Because I don't understand the motivation for this sort of thing, I would have preferred to see the whole person, which might have given me more insight.
It's interesting for sure, but I can't say I actually like the image. It sort of reminds me of a potentially nice shot of a bunch of flowers with dying petals that have not been removed. Perhaps a little bit grubby. Lacking in the exquisite and the esthetic, but worth photographing.
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Bob,
I think perhaps I should return the favour and offer a comment on your candid shot of the tattooed ..errh.. lady.
First I should mention that I have my own prejudices and a slight prejudice against tattooed people is one of them. I simply don't understand the desire of anyone who wants to be tattooed, if it's permanent. I suspect the tattoos in this shot are not permanent, but one can't be sure. One can't even be sure if the subject's a lady or a bloke.
It's a candid shot of a documentary nature and also a bit of a freak show. Because I don't understand the motivation for this sort of thing, I would have preferred to see the whole person.
It's interesting for sure, but I can't say I actually like the image. It sort of reminds me of a potentially nice shot of a bunch of flowers with dying petals that have not been removed.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=91714\")
Actually it's not tattoos, it's henna.
The woman was a quite beautiful Indian bride who was visiting the Rama Sita temple in Orchha. Her (probably) sisters and friends had spent hours decorating her hands and feet with elaborate patterns using henna paste which temporarily dyes the skin.
And notice that she has adopted the red and white bangles which indicate her status as a married woman. No longer will she be free to pick among the multitude of interesting colors.
As for the dying petals, yes, they are dying. Old fashioned roses that don't hold up well after cutting. The petals were cascading from her adornment and I failed to capture the movement, but froze them in time.
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That said, I share your dislike for tattoos, or at least a lack of understanding why people would do that to their bodies. I'm of an age that when I became old enough to do something like that to myself I frequently saw the military guys who had come back from WWII with their dancing girls, hearts, etc. And those most likely once nicely done decorations had degraded to something that looked more like an angry bruise.
I suppose that in the next decade or so we'll have a not-so-expensive and less-painful-than-what-we-have-now way of removing tattoos.
But more than that I wonder what the next generation will have to do to establish it's rebel-ness?
As a school kid of the '50s we tweaked the establishment with our flattops and then went on to offend by wearing sneakers rather than proper shoes.
In our second childhood of the sixties we grew our hair and quit shaving. We wore the strangest clothing that we could scrounge.
Later generations have moved on to electrically colored hair, piercing, tattoos, and even a bit of branding (yes, the cattle type).
The next generation, what's left for them?
Amputations?
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Now all that OT stuff aside - how about some help here....
Why does the same shot look different on two different sites? The one that displays here is darker than where I originally posted it here on [a href=\"http://www.trekearth.com/gallery/Asia/India/Central/photo3203.htm]Trek Earth[/url].
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The woman was a quite beautiful Indian bride who was visiting the Rama Sita temple in Orchha. Her (probably) sisters and friends had spent hours decorating her hands and feet with elaborate patterns using henna paste which temporarily dyes the skin.
Bob, just goes to show how images can be misinterpreted. I could have sworn it was a hippie trying be different.
Why does the same shot look different on two different sites? The one that displays here is darker than where I originally posted it here on Trek Earth (http://www.trekearth.com/gallery/Asia/India/Central/photo3203.htm).
Both images look about equally dark to me, however, on my calibrated monitor the LL image shows a warmer skin tone on the hands, perhaps too warm, ie. a slight orange cast. The trekearth image I would describe as being slightly more neutral, but if I'd seen the original scene I might change my mind.
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Just returned from Thailand and Cambodia. Like some of the other guys, I cannot recommend highly enough a side trip to Siem Reap in Cambodia. I'd say you need three/four days there to really make the most of it and the advice to hire a driver ($15 a day) is well worth it - they can get you away from some of the crowds. Some of the smaller temples are the most atmospheric and worth getting to see. It's also worth an afteronon at the floating villages on Tonle Sap lake nearby.
Whilst in Chiang Mai, try a day at a Thai cooking school - unusual but great fun
Enjoy
Paul
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Contrived, lacklustre, and staged pretty much sums up my thoughts when I saw it.
That and poorly posed.
That direct enough for you? ;o)
The pose - shot too much from the front. Her raised foot is obscured. And she is looking directly at the camera which eliminates any "caught in the moment" feeling.
I think you might have pulled off something interesting had you looked for an intact as possible part of a temple. And had her actually dance so that you could rip off a bunch of shots in hopes of capturing a feeling of movement as opposed to a static pose.
Against this background, the partially tumbled temple and dominating tree trunks, she doesn't belong. She's too intact, too fresh.
Perhaps dancing in the foreground with a fog shrouded Angkor in the background.
Perhaps darting past an open doorway.
Somehow more of a fleeting spirit caught out of time.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=91210\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Not only are your comments overly harsh, but you missed the point of the photo completely.
It is obviously a documentary or enviromental portrait shot. Her right hand is trying to remove something from her left foot. Leading the viewers to wonder what she just stepped on (that white thing next to her right foot?). Her pleasant facial expression says, "It's no big deal, that's how life is in the third world."
I suggest that you pay close attention to an image before criticizing it. <g>
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Not only are your comments overly harsh, but you missed the point of the photo completely.
It is obviously a documentary or enviromental portrait shot. Her right hand is trying to remove something from her left foot. Leading the viewers to wonder what she just stepped on (that white thing next to her right foot?). Her pleasant facial expression says, "It's no big deal, that's how life is in the third world."
I suggest that you pay close attention to an image before criticizing it. <g>
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=91925\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Correct you are! The photographer was quite harsh in his critique of his work. Read post #46.
Had I not been paraphrasing the photographer I would have been at least a bit more diplomatic in my dumping on the image.
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Attempted humor aside, I didn't get what I wanted from the discussion. I applaud Ray for the effort he made in dragging a dancing girl out to the temples and trying to use her to get an interesting atmospheric shot. I agree with Ray. He didn't pull it off, at least in the presented shot.
I'm looking for ideas for how to make something like this work. How does one shoot someone in period clothes and a discordant background and make something more appealing than a tourist postcard?
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I'm looking for ideas for how to make something like this work. How does one shoot someone in period clothes and a discordant background and make something more appealing than a tourist postcard?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=91944\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I don't know, Bob. Is the background in the following shot less discordant for you. This is the other side of the wall in the previous shot, just a bit further along.
[attachment=1415:attachment]
Interesting that the first shot uses the 5D auto WB in ACR (as shot), but in the conversion of this second image I've used ACR's 'daylight' WB. I feel there shouldn't be this much difference between the two.
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Don't come one step closer, buddy!
(Hey! I'm getting conflicting messages here.
[attachment=1416:attachment]
Apologies to folks who are actually looking for locations in Thailand, but Khmer ancient dancing appears to have had an enormous influence on classical Thai dancing, so the digression is not too far out.
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I don't know, Bob. Is the background in the following shot less discordant for you. This is the other side of the wall in the previous shot, just a bit further along.
[attachment=1415:attachment]
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=92034\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I'm a little uncomfortable with replying Ray. I have a feeling that you aren't comfortable with having people say less than flattering things about your pictures even though you ask for feedback.
That said, I'll venture out onto thin ice.
I find this scaled a bit better. But as a picture is doesn't work for me.
It's very posed and artificial. Were it a "perfect" shot it would make a good postcard for the tourist trade. If that was what you were after then this is better (IMO) than your first post.
What might have helped in this particular pose would have been using a box/stand to move your model higher or finding a place where you maintained a diagonal line through belly buttons (or whatever part of bodies work best). In this frame the woman is positioned too close and too low in relation to the carved dancers.
And the direct stare into the camera just kills it for me.
All that said, a lot of this feedback feedback verges away from what I would call good photographic critique. It's more about personal preferences which is a separate issue.
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I returned from my Thailand trip,and just wante to say thank you for all your help,and advise.
You were right...It's hot!!!..In a hasty moment,I managed to DELETE 2gbs of shots from my memeory card by mistake.I was reviewing a shot I had just taken ,and went to delete it..and hit the delete ALL button.A word of cautuon to anyone going to Thailand,sometimes the heat can to you..make sure you review your images when you are well rested,and in a air conditioned space.
Here's a few images I did mange to keep.[attachment=1359:attachment][attachment=1360:attachment][attachment=1361:at
tachment][attachment=1362:attachment][attachment=1363:attachment][attachment=1364
:attachment][attachment=1365:attachment]
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=90423\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
If you hapen to do this agan keep your card separate and recover the images using PC Inspector File Recovery or simular softwair
Robert
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Attempted humor aside, I didn't get what I wanted from the discussion. I applaud Ray for the effort he made in dragging a dancing girl out to the temples and trying to use her to get an interesting atmospheric shot. I agree with Ray. He didn't pull it off, at least in the presented shot.
I'm looking for ideas for how to make something like this work. How does one shoot someone in period clothes and a discordant background and make something more appealing than a tourist postcard?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=91944\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
See my following reply to Ray.
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Don't come one step closer, buddy!
(Hey! I'm getting conflicting messages here.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=92042\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
All kidding aside, here are some comments.
- If I post an image, I'm thick skinned enough to expect all kinds of comments.
- As pointed out in Terry Barrett's book, photo criticism should be treated as a communal and ongoing thing: it should include comments from all critics and over a long time.
- Some photographers shoot for their own pleasure and reasons, and don't care what others have to say. Some shoot for an audience and do care deeply how the shots are received. Some are in the middle.
- If I shoot images like yours and Bobtrips' for my own pleasure, I tend to be less "careful" since they are documenting something I have experienced personally. But if I want to share these with others, I will take into consideration who the audience are and what I want to convey.
- As a photographer, one of the most difficult things of shooting such images is to convey my experience to an audience who are not present and may be clueless of the background. Unlike the photographer, they have no sense of the culture, the scale, the smell, the humidity, etc. ect. It is therefore not surprising for someone "ignorant" like myself to arrive at the conclusion that Ray's dancer is wiping something off her foot! One way I handle this kind of shot is trying to put myself in the shoes of such an audience and ask myself will the shot work.
This is way OT, and perhaps a new forum dedicated for image posting and comments is needed.
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As a photographer, one of the most difficult things of shooting such images is to convey my experience to an audience who are not present and may be clueless of the background. Unlike the photographer, they have no sense of the culture, the scale, the smell, the humidity, etc. ect. It is therefore not surprising for someone "ignorant" like myself to arrive at the conclusion that Ray's dancer is wiping something off her foot! One way I handle this kind of shot is trying to put myself in the shoes of such an audience and ask myself will the shot work.
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Chris,
I shoot for my own interest. If someone doesn't like an image or find it interesting, that's fine by me. You're entitled to poke a bit of fun at what appears to be going on . No hard feelings on my part.
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Ray, your Cambodian dancer photos *almost* work really well, but don't quite. Having the dancer looking straight at the camera is too contrived-looking. If the dancer had been standing off in a doorway or somewhere partially obscured, looking elsewhere, looking like you've spontaneously caught her dancing unawares, *then* it would probably have been a great photo. (Though a less honest one...) Still, a fine idea.
Lisa
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Ray, your Cambodian dancer photos *almost* work really well, but don't quite. Having the dancer looking straight at the camera is too contrived-looking. If the dancer had been standing off in a doorway or somewhere partially obscured, looking elsewhere, looking like you've spontaneously caught her dancing unawares, *then* it would probably have been a great photo. (Though a less honest one...) Still, a fine idea.
Lisa
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Lisa,
That's a fair comment which I'll bear in mind when I process the many other images I have of this dancer. Perhaps I should have learned the Cambodian phrase for 'don't look at the camera', before I embarked on this expedition .
But you must have noticed when you were at Angkor that many of the apsaras depicted in the bas reliefs on the temple walls also appear to be looking directly at the viewer.
Unfortunately, in that environment, I was fighting against too many variables to do as good a job as I'd liked to have done. I had to choose my locations carefully to avoid as much as possible the hordes of tourists with P&S cameras. Certain backgrounds which I'd found to be the most interesting at certain times of the day, with the best lighting, I had to avoid because of potential crowds. The weather was also very variable. One day, I decided to go out to Beng Mealea in the morning, one of the outer temples that is mostly visited in the afternoons. It turned out to be relatively crowd-free, but by the time we arrived there, a sunny morning had turned into a dull, overcast day.
Has anyone used Corel's KnockOut ? Looks as though I might have to start cheating.
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I guess it's inevitable that I'll show off a few more shots of my favourite Khmer dancer.
Here's her preparing for a few studio shots.
[attachment=1432:attachment]
The guy on her right is her dancing tutor (who runs a dancing school separate from the restaurant, where she works). The woman crouching is the dancer's mother, tenderly attending to her daughter's skirt; the lady on the far left is a studio employee, slightly bored and perhaps wishing that she were the centre of attention.
Here's another ruined shot because she's looking at the camera man. (Dam it! If only I wasn't so attractive!)
[attachment=1433:attachment]
And here's a shot that could be useful because she's not looking at the camera.
[attachment=1435:attachment]
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I'm a little uncomfortable with replying Ray. I have a feeling that you aren't comfortable with having people say less than flattering things about your pictures even though you ask for feedback.
That said, I'll venture out onto thin ice.
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You might try this under "The difficulty of an honest critique" thread started by Ray.
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I don't know where Bob gets the idea that I am not comfortable with people saying less than flattering things about my images, considering that I deliberately goaded him into saying unflattering things.
The embarrassing thing for me in all this, is that I have probably unwittingly insulted a few Indian brides.
As for constructive criticism, the point made about the subject looking directly at the photographer seems perfectly valid. Just goes to show how little experience I have with this type of shooting. I now see that too many of my shots of this lady have the same problem. Am I a victim of my own vanity or just plain incompetent? (No need to answer that rhetorical question ).
Whilst it's true that many of the apsaras in the bas reliefs directly face the viewer or visitor, sculptures tend not to have eyeballs and in many instances the eyelids are closed and the face often (not always) is slightly averted.
[attachment=1439:attachment]
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i had a very good experience at Angkor Wat a couple years ago spending what it took to get a good guide and driver - he new the tour bus schedules, which entrances to use, etc. -- we went out mostly early in the morning and in the afternoon with a midday siesta