Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: rainer_v on September 17, 2006, 05:10:40 pm
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what a pity, that several and as i suppose mostly experienced, photographers disappeared in "secret" places to discuss their mf equipement. they want to be among them and can choose who is worth to participate and who not..... ( me ad example i was rejected ).
it feels so strange if you want to come in a forum and some anonym guy, who you have not idea who he is and why he decides so,- sais that you are not "worth" to participate in a forum, for whatever reason it might be. you are not famous enough? not experienced enough?or the opposite? too experienced? to critical? or someone dont like you? who knows...... its just disappointing and feels very discrimative.
and its a pity that the few good forums in the net are not longer used to share with people who have lower experience, as it was done over the last years mostly in a nice way in RG, LL, FM and Dp, probably all this happened since this unlucky censorship some months ago in RG.
suppose this are now the same people who cried out loud about this censorship,- just to do in their way the same ....
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Don't let it get you down Rainer, I'll be happy to chat away all you like about medium format architectural photography! It's not my day job, but I've been slowly building up an architectural photographic business over the last two years. I use Hasselblads for interiors and a Linhof for exteriors, both with film and digital.
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what a pity, that several and as i suppose mostly experienced, photographers disappeared in "secret" places to discuss their mf equipement. they want to be among them and can choose who is worth to participate and who not..... ( me ad example i was rejected ).
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=76698\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Seeing that this thread already has more than 80 viewings in the few hours since you started it, I would say that *right here* is a very nice place to talk about MF. I have been getting quick and knowledgable feedback to the set of MF equipment-related questions I asked here today.
The "secret" D64 society seems to have totally dried out, by the way.
Edmund
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right *where* ?
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right *where* ?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=76716\")
FIGHT CLUB
[a href=\"http://prodigital.proboards98.com/index.cgi]http://prodigital.proboards98.com/index.cgi[/url]
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FIGHT CLUB
http://prodigital.proboards98.com/index.cgi (http://prodigital.proboards98.com/index.cgi)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=76719\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
What is that board about ? It can't be accessed, nor can you register ....
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Who belongs to that forum?
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Who belongs to that forum?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=76784\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
some photographers, some well known + some less well known, who want to share among other some more or less known photographers, or some who feel themeself like that, but beeing proud to be selected from the forumowner,- .....
mostly fashion, several well known here especially from RG before beeing banned or before they have quit after censorship of RG there.
try to subscribe. probably you will like what follows and esp. the style how it is done, as i did also.
#
just funny that several of this guys already have sent me private emails in the past to want to ask this or to that. i will be very helpfull to everybody from there in future also,- for sure.
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How do you request to become a member?
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How do you request to become a member?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=76787\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
its easy. give your (real)name in the register field, that they knwo who you are, select a codeword and than wait if they will accept you after they have sent you some code to your email for activation.
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Looks like fight club has gone into administration or just bolted down the hatches.
This forum is a good place to be right now. If the 'about to become' MF users do buy the kit others have reccomended we will have a good core of real users.
Damien.
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The old RG days were 'Classic' but they did fall apart.
They led me to a pretty wide understanding of MF options and helped me buy the most expensive thing I have ever bought apart from my house
One advantage was that most signed with a real name and a website
Here there is no culture of doing that
Also on RG there was a bit of repect - people - especially those further down the ladder posted with great care and were seen to listen and appreciate advice
I never posted at all until I had a new back that no one had ever tested before me - at that point I had something to share
There are some good names showing up here - I have found most on google or they where already in my Favs from RG times - we need to listen to them - something I dont see happening
If people show who they are - listen to those who know - and chip in when ONLY they can really add - and thank when advised - then this can become a good place
I hope it does..
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There are some good names showing up here - I have found most on google or they where already in my Favs from RG times - we need to listen to them - something I dont see happening
If people show who they are - listen to those who know - and chip in when ONLY they can really add - and thank when advised - then this can become a good place
I hope it does..
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=76815\")
Aww, come on, it's already a very nice place. And many of us do sign with our real names !
My feeling is we're already well over critical mass here now, and very useful information is getting posted Look at the responses to my query about backs, in particular the multipliers and incredible detail on weights collated by Robert:
[a href=\"http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=12176]http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=12176[/url]
It's obvious that the guys and gals here know exactly how much care needs to go into buying this sort of system ...
The old rg forum was where we also went for discussing the "look" of things - this mix between the tech and the result or rather choosing the tech in view of the result ... and we've seen this start to happen here too again, with James coming back...
In summary, I think we have the crowd for a good party !
Edmund
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"Aww, come on," Why that language ??
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Anyway..
That thread was exactly one I was thinking of.
Mr Crosslin made a very valid point - very abruptly admitedly - but I am very sure there are thoughts and experience behind it
Mr Crosslin shows us his website - looks like a succesfull commercial photographer who I would look up to and listen to
"Stay with Canon" was exactly what I thought when when I saw your enquiry in the ROBUST thread but I didnt post because you already had that thought put your way
The thread continues with important points about the slowness of MF on the move camera shake all leading to stay with canon argument
And you rate the post about what the stuff weighs posted by someone we dont know who they are !!!!!!!!!
I promise Mr Crosslins 'use canon' post was highly valid and considered why was there no 'please expand' on your thoughts from you
As a user of an H1 back AND nikon AND working in an agency where we have two snappers on 1ds2s and two 5d users I can vouch that there are many situations where using a DSLR is the right thing
In fact there are very few situations where the H1 wins over canon
We can explain what they are - and if they meet your criteria all well and good - and if they dont meet your criteria and you stick with DSLR then we have just saved you the price of a new car - so please listen
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Things have been coming along well here. Every now and again someone steps out of line, but all in all it is becoming clear that there is a very serious, dedicated group of MF back users who are willing to exchange views and information in a public forum. MR should be commended for letting us move past the RG rants, and settling down into what has been lately a very good forum.
Ranier, while we can do nothing about those who choose not to share in a public fashion, we can move forward on our own. I very much appreciate you sharing your insight and experiences, and I always look forward to seeing a Viertlbock post.
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(Cross posting : This is ref Eronald)
My last post was off topic and I am going to start a new thread - MF dont bother !
ps
Just seen TroyHouse looking at this thread please join in !
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I learned a lot from the RG forums for years - right back to when I purchased a Kodak 760.
It was great to be able to know all the issues about specific equipment before purchase. When I had something to add I did. The 760 and 14n were cameras with many issues but handled correctly the deficiencies could be overcome and results could be spectacular.
Rainer's posts were and are most welcome and I have followed much of his experience and advice, and found his posted examples rigourously executed and invaluble. I was great to compare the Kodak 14nx and Canon 1ds2 before purchase as Rainer had been there well before me , along with James Russell and others who posted regularly.
It never turned iinto the slanging match that DP review can be sometimes and all involved highly skilled and well informed.
I have gone the Imacon back route and while I monitor the flexcolour forum, much of the information is technical and specific to those backs only - I can't say I have needed much help as I have had few problems apart from learning the beast that is Flexcolour ( but what a beast!).
I still appreciate the opportunity to compare and learn about other backs - I recently purchased Capture one for my 1ds2 thatnks to information on this and other forums, it seems to be a much better production tool than Canon or Adobe software but I hadn't looked at it because I don't own a Phase one back.
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Sorry to post so much tonight - its fun !
I think for this Forum to head forward in a valuable manner some informal rules could be constructed
-Real Name / Website where possible
-Only owners of specific kit should reply to questions about it
-Try to ask questions making clear your mission
A mission could be 'Candid People', 'Formal Architecture' , 'General Commercial' etc
Those things made RG good
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Please keep any rules loose and welcome in aspirational as well as inspirational photographers. I like Edmonds "Aww come on" It adds character and tone welcome in a thread lacking any pictures. Good evening - it has been:-)
D.
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Mr Crosslin made a very valid point - very abruptly admitedly - but I am very sure there are thoughts and experience behind it
Mr Crosslin shows us his website - looks like a succesfull commercial photographer who I would look up to and listen to[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=76821\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Aw man, I wasn't trying to be flip with my response. There's NOTHING wrong with Canon - I still shoot with a 5D and a 1D MII. Many of the images on my site were shot with a Canon. If it's got a hole and I can pass light sensitive material behind it I'll try and make an image with it!
I'm just a guy looking for reliable information on this medium format digital stuff just like everyone else. I was active in the Canon area at the RG forum and lurked mostly in the medium format forum because I didn't have a back. I learned a TON from guys like Mark, James and Von and my work is the better for it. The RG forum was one of a kind but this forum has the potential to be an amazing resource. With guys like James, Steve Hendrix, Rainer and others there's a great base of knowledge.
Let's keep it rolling.
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DAMIAN.. please note the word 'informal' !!
I quote my self on the "tough" thread..
"That doesnt mean even college kids dont have a lot to contribute
Linking to sites just helps gain a picture of who's talking"
When you saw who was talking on RG you listened (well I did anyway)
BOB
"I wasn't trying to be flip with my response. There's NOTHING wrong with Canon "
Exactly. I was attempting to point out to Edmund that your post was serious and considered and not to be ignored and to gain full value he should have considered questioning you more
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Looks like fight club has gone into administration or just bolted down the hatches.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=76803\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Yeah, this kind of place never really makes it, no understanding of how an online message board works, imho. After all, too many restrictions and censorship killed RG's.
By the way, a poster's real name never did anything for me. What's the point ?
Personally, I will never give away my real name or work email on the internet; it's unsafe, might hurt your reputation if a forum is googlable, and adds nothing to a post.
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By the way, a poster's real name never did anything for me. What's the point ?
Personally, I will never give away my real name or work email on the internet; it's unsafe, might hurt your reputation if a forum is googlable, and adds nothing to a post.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=76960\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Both points of view can be used: If you post interesting stuff, it enhances your reputation, and sometimes people offer you work
Edmund
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The RG forum worked and most used thier real names and linked to thier often wonderful sites
Showing example of images and being able to see at what style/level the person works made RG invaluable
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The RG forum worked and most used thier real names and linked to thier often wonderful sites
Showing example of images and being able to see at what style/level the person works made RG invaluable
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=76967\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I know this is an old post, but i keep getting hits on my web site from these prodigital.proboads98 forums and have know idea what it is, I figure if they are using my content then they could atleast invite me to the party.
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I know this is an old post, but i keep getting hits on my web site from these prodigital.proboads98 forums and have know idea what it is, I figure if they are using my content then they could atleast invite me to the party.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=132407\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
profoto community or whatever it is called is the 'new' name for RG forums - people are still reading your old posts and clicking through to your site??
S
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Yeah I posted a little app on another forum and a few days later I noticed getting alot of hits from the proforums. Does anyone have an email address for them I figure that if they are using my app then I should be able to get on the boards.
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Rick, its a 'pay' forum now--here's the URL
http://www.prophotohome.com/ (http://www.prophotohome.com/) I believe there are a couple free forums, but when Drew bought the forum from RG--it became a pay for use forum. Since I was once a member, I get the emails also.
Diane
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If you are getting content stolen, simpl block the URL in your htaccess.
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hi rainer,
i am totally with you on this. i for my part had a very strong recommandation from somebody in the knows for this secret forum and was rejected with a very rude mail by the moderator whose photographic and technical skills are orders of magnitudes below mine (and i know my limitations very well). their loss after all.
peter
what a pity, that several and as i suppose mostly experienced, photographers disappeared in "secret" places to discuss their mf equipement. they want to be among them and can choose who is worth to participate and who not..... ( me ad example i was rejected ).
it feels so strange if you want to come in a forum and some anonym guy, who you have not idea who he is and why he decides so,- sais that you are not "worth" to participate in a forum, for whatever reason it might be. you are not famous enough? not experienced enough?or the opposite? too experienced? to critical? or someone dont like you? who knows...... its just disappointing and feels very discrimative.
and its a pity that the few good forums in the net are not longer used to share with people who have lower experience, as it was done over the last years mostly in a nice way in RG, LL, FM and Dp, probably all this happened since this unlucky censorship some months ago in RG.
suppose this are now the same people who cried out loud about this censorship,- just to do in their way the same ....
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=76698\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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Rick, its a 'pay' forum now--here's the URL
http://www.prophotohome.com/ (http://www.prophotohome.com/) I believe there are a couple free forums, but when Drew bought the forum from RG--it became a pay for use forum. Since I was once a member, I get the emails also.
Diane
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=132480\")
Someone not reading the whole thread! I am a member of prophotohome I'm talking about this one [a href=\"http://prodigital.proboards98.com/index.cgi]http://prodigital.proboards98.com/index.cgi[/url]
@kaelaria Noone is stealing I posted a app that I gave away to the world, you can download yourself if you like.
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Oh OK, I thought you meant someone is linking to your pics and posting them in the forums.
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I wouldn't even be interested in such place as I can't stand by people that need such a secret place with so much obstacles to be a part of a "circle" to think they have something better.
It doesn't make them better. And to be proud of being just a part of something I think they actually are "poor".
I prefer read this forum where F... photographers take time to help first timer.
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Friendly
Fantastic
Photographers ?
Anyway, with all the spammers nowadays almost every board is kind of closed. I don't get these so-called elitist on invitation-only boards either.
I am very glad boards like LL exist where people are trying to help out others and share knowledge. Besides that it is also a nice social pastime.
I have found there are pros that are anxious to share knowledge since they fear to make a potential competitor better than themselves. These pros obviously still haven't found out that skills & knowledge are not perse the most important things to succeed as photographer.
Oh, well with the places I already visit I have no need to participate in one of these secret forums. They don't have much to offer to me.
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Good gezegd Dustbak!
Hoe is het fotografie leven in Holland?
Groetjes,
Willem.
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Good gezegd Dustbak!
Hoe is het fotografie leven in Holland?
Groetjes,
Willem.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=132639\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hi Willem,
Gaat wel lekker hier, stevige concurrentie dat wel
Your Dutch is quite well. Probably better than my English.
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some anonym guy, who you have not idea who he is and why he decides so,- sais that you are not "worth" to participate in a forum, for whatever reason it might be. you are not famous enough? not experienced enough?or the opposite? too experienced? to critical? or someone dont like you? who knows...... its just disappointing and feels very discrimative.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=76698\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
The photographic industy has always had more than it's fair share of twats like this poncing around - always will.
I reckon it's insecurity - they're scared shitless by the openness that the internet & the digital age has afforded photography and probably realise that they're not nearly as good as they believed themselves to be.
F**k 'em - leave them to it - they're really not worth taking seriously & you'll get all the info you need from open, knowledgable & friendly places such as here.
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I think it was W.C. Fields that said:
"I'd never want to belong to a club that would consider having me for a member"
The photographic industy has always had more than it's fair share of twats like this poncing around - always will.
I reckon it's insecurity - they're scared shitless by the openness that the internet & the digital age has afforded photography and probably realise that they're not nearly as good as they believed themselves to be.
F**k 'em - leave them to it - they're really not worth taking seriously & you'll get all the info you need from open, knowledgable & friendly places such as here.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=132822\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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I think it was W.C. Fields that said:
"I'd never want to belong to a club that would consider having me for a member"
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=132837\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Excellent quote
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Actually it was Groucho Marx who said that.
Hence the naming of 'The groucho club' in London.
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Friendly
Fantastic
Photographers ?
Anyway, with all the spammers nowadays almost every board is kind of closed. I don't get these so-called elitist on invitation-only boards either.
I am very glad boards like LL exist where people are trying to help out others and share knowledge. Besides that it is also a nice social pastime.
I have found there are pros that are anxious to share knowledge since they fear to make a potential competitor better than themselves. These pros obviously still haven't found out that skills & knowledge are not perse the most important things to succeed as photographer.
Oh, well with the places I already visit I have no need to participate in one of these secret forums. They don't have much to offer to me.
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=132621\")
Every day in our private life we decide whom we want to allow into our circle of friends. We base our decision on our individual likings and not on someone's worthiness to be our pal. If I choose not be a friend with another photographer it does not mean that he is not a good photog. It also does not mean that he is too good of a craftsmen and that I would be intimidated by his presents.
It only means that for some reason we did not clicked and I would not feel comfortable to share my private time with. We may work and associate together but we will not make friends.
Additionally after we choose somebody for a friend with time we may decide to exclude him from our circle. It is so natural and understood in reality and it should be the same on Web.
My understanding of Board98 is that it is a close small circle of friends and as such it has all the rights to be exclusive. They survive a year in keeping it this way so more power to them.
Close groups bring a lot of benefits to it's members and also allow added feeling of intimacy. All of this however comes with a cost which sometimes is not realized at the beginning.
As history shows all very closed socialties with time tend to degraded. NO fresh blood and fresh ideas always creates dictatorship. The strongest and the loudest arise to leadership position and slowly but surely keeps implementing his ideas.
If hypotetically we would assume that board98 leader was a strong and loud Contax645/aptus believer we can also assume that in a matter of few months his fellow club members would be influenced to buy Contax bodies. If in matters of 6 months he would discover that Phase One P45 is the best back so would the rest short after. Viva economy. Viva "Fotographers" Club - of course hypotetically.
So for all of us outsiders, be happy of what we have here. Be sure that boards98 members are among us as well and that talking about their Club only validates their believes and need for privacy. Think about this way: in a year+ since the creation of board98 there are no leaks on internet about their detailed activities. This is better that USA government with all it's CIA and FBI.
Nobody left the group in a year? ( North Korea ? ) or a real group of friends regardless of circumstancies. It would mean that once a fotographers club member - always photographers club member.
[a href=\"http://Andrenapier.com]http://Andrenapier.com[/url]
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Sorry to have opened this can of worms now. I WAS just interested because of the number of hits I was getting from them and wondered what it was they were saying about me. Not sure I really care too much now.
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Every day in our private life we decide whom we want to allow into our circle of friends. We base our decision on our individual likings and not on someone's worthiness to be our pal. If I choose not be a friend with another photographer it does not mean that he is not a good photog. It also does not mean that he is too good of a craftsmen and that I would be intimidated by his presents.
It only means that for some reason we did not clicked and I would not feel comfortable to share my private time with. We may work and associate together but we will not make friends.
Additionally after we choose somebody for a friend with time we may decide to exclude him from our circle. It is so natural and understood in reality and it should be the same on Web.
My understanding of Board98 is that it is a close small circle of friends and as such it has all the rights to be exclusive. They survive a year in keeping it this way so more power to them.
Close groups bring a lot of benefits to it's members and also allow added feeling of intimacy. All of this however comes with a cost which sometimes is not realized at the beginning.
As history shows all very closed socialties with time tend to degraded. NO fresh blood and fresh ideas always creates dictatorship. The strongest and the loudest arise to leadership position and slowly but surely keeps implementing his ideas.
If hypotetically we would assume that board98 leader was a strong and loud Contax645/aptus believer we can also assume that in a matter of few months his fellow club members would be influenced to buy Contax bodies. If in matters of 6 months he would discover that Phase One P45 is the best back so would the rest short after. Viva economy. Viva "Fotographers" Club - of course hypotetically.
So for all of us outsiders, be happy of what we have here. Be sure that boards98 members are among us as well and that talking about their Club only validates their believes and need for privacy. Think about this way: in a year+ since the creation of board98 there are no leaks on internet about their detailed activities. This is better that USA government with all it's CIA and FBI.
Nobody left the group in a year? ( North Korea ? ) or a real group of friends regardless of circumstancies. It would mean that once a fotographers club member - always photographers club member.
http://Andrenapier.com (http://Andrenapier.com)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=132875\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Yeah, But it's still bollocks