Luminous Landscape Forum
The Art of Photography => But is it Art? => Topic started by: nrantoul on August 09, 2017, 07:17:59 am
-
I have written before about Briot's over analysis articles, but this recent one put me over the top. While I don't mean to criticize his pictures I find little redeeming in them and object to seeing similar things three times in each. I find his approach over wrought, over worked and his writing so detailed as to be excruciating. Please do not continue to publish this man's articles! Making art by formula, the methods listed like a recipe, "follow my words and you too will make great art"... except that his pictures are not great art! They are predictable and dull, I believe.
-
That may be a bit harsh, rantoul. Alain makes technically excellent photographs of the usual tourist sights. Nobody's going to experience the kind of jolt from Alain's photographs one gets from actual art, but they should be appealing to people decorating law offices and banks. They're decorative, familiar, understandable; not the kind of thing that's going to make you react emotionally. As far as Alain's formulas are concerned, why not publish them? They'll help others produce the same kind of stuff he's producing. There's a good market for that kind of pap in commercial decoration and advertising.
-
We have been publishing Alain's articles for years on a monthly basis. He has made a career out of selling and making prints successfully for quite some time. Not too many people can say that. In addition, he shares openly how he has done this. If you don't like his articles then skip over them. We are a large site with a large audience and I know based on feedback his columns have helped many people. If you don't like his images fine, but his content and methods are proven to work.
-
Kevin, maybe its time for a change. His approach is way too commercial like photocopier salesmen in the 70's.
There are hundreds of better photographers who could add something fresh to LL rather than continuing for the sake of it.
-
Workshops, books, master classes, are the way that a lot of pros are going these days. With the market being flooded by endless photos of iconic locations, pros have to diversify to survive. In this regard, I respect Alain's work, he is one of the few that masters the technical side, and the business side.
The downside, to me, is that I find his articles less and less interesting, due to the increase in "recipe" and "marketing" content. Of course it can help others immensely, to pursue similar avenues. But his articles come to me as sterile and not inspirational; compared to his articles from 6 or 10 years ago, it was a big change.
-
Well, I don't think it has anything definitive to do with either Alain or LuLa.
I think Alain does what he chooses to do very well, and as far as anyone knows, he has made a good living out of that, so great! He is doing it for business reasons, so what else did anyone expect him to do but cater to the market he has found for himself? LuLa is also interested in staying alive and making money where it can. Why not? So was/am I.
If there's a problem, I think it lies elsewhere, and I think I have just realised where and what it is. It lives in the Internet, and is called overexposure to photographic works. Nothing means much anymore; we've seen everything a thousand times over. We have entered the Kindgdom of Glazed Eyes, where the three-minute-mind is a luxury, never mind the long, one-minute-look at anything.
I live in the eternal hope of selling up, and today I found the strength within myself to face the little matter of clearing out junk just in case I get the chance to fly away. Well, I did that for about an hour, and depression set in when I found myself tearing up several albums of photographs I'd made over time using the different printers that came my way. What a gigantic waste of my time making those things; what a waste of funds on the machines I'd bought with which to make them, and the little rivers of extortionately priced Epson and HP inks that were consumed in such fruitless pursuits! What in hell was I thinking during all those long hours of earnest toil? Thank goodness HP abandoned the B 9180 and thus saved me from myself.
The above episode this afternoon convinces me that the era of happy home printing is well and truly dead but for the few people with the name and marketing power to make it profitable. For the rest of us, one is best served just admiring one's work in the website. It's far cheaper and the stuff probably looks better.
Russ said he imagines that something will happen, and life find its equilibrium again. I think he's right, and that state of equilibrium will see photography firmly back in its box as a minor hobby, with painting returned to its rightful place at the head of the world of graphic art.
Oddly enough, it just struck me that porn will probably do the same for sex: a worldwide revulsion to porn will eventually set in; honest, inter-human sex will be pushed away into the personal background and retained for its functional raison d'être whilst a new romanticism sweeps the world... no, wait: all those bloody Valentines! Maybe mankind can't handle honest.
Rob
-
~on approach, a very healthy reset Rob! Life oughta be like painting!
-
Well, I don't think it has anything definitive to do with either Alain or LuLa.
If there's a problem, I think it lies elsewhere, and I think I have just realised where and what it is. It lives in the Internet, and is called overexposure to photographic works. Nothing means much anymore; we've seen everything a thousand times over. We have entered the Kindgdom of Glazed Eyes, where the three-minute-mind is a luxury, never mind the long, one-minute-look at anything.
I live in the eternal hope of selling up, and today I found the strength within myself to face the little matter of clearing out junk just in case I get the chance to fly away. Well, I did that for about an hour, and depression set in when I found myself tearing up several albums of photographs I'd made over time using the different printers that came my way. What a gigantic waste of my time making those things; what a waste of funds on the machines I'd bought with which to make them, and the little rivers of extortionately priced Epson and HP inks that were consumed in such fruitless pursuits! What in hell was I thinking during all those long hours of earnest toil? Thank goodness HP abandoned the B 9180 and thus saved me from myself.
The above episode this afternoon convinces me that the era of happy home printing is well and truly dead but for the few people with the name and marketing power to make it profitable. For the rest of us, one is best served just admiring one's work in the website. It's far cheaper and the stuff probably looks better.
Rob
That's a little bleak!
I find on-line/on-screen images have a numbing sameness due to the convergence of optimizing for the same glowing phosphors everyone else uses. I still see a fine print as the final form of the best photographs I take, and other people seem to like them well enough to buy some of them, enough to keep me in paper and ink. There really is a distinction between a physical print on cotton rag paper and an sRGB screen image.
Sure, there are a zillion photos out there, and if I see yet another version of 'sunrise under Mesa Arch' taken at a workshop I might have to hurl. But there's still a place for beautifully crafted, heartfelt, lovely images of something folks haven't seen before.
I respect Alain for building a very successful business on his art, and for sharing what he does. One can quibble about the aesthetics of his photos, but that's half the fun of art; different strokes and all that. I'd agree that his work strikes me as a bit over the top in terms of cranked-up saturation and forced drama. I like a quieter aesthetic. But enough people like it enough to pay good money for it, more power to him.
-
I can't agree more...
Peter
Small world!
I greatly enjoyed taking your painting workshop last August in Milford, PA; still use things I learned from you every week. And six weeks after your workshop I won 'People's choice' at Seneca Lake plein air with this nocturne:
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5797/30168912535_ba7bd9750c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/MXVyCp)Six thirty am (https://flic.kr/p/MXVyCp) by Geoffrey Wittig (https://www.flickr.com/photos/geoffdoc/), on Flickr
Thank you for the excellent teaching.
Not sure whether I enjoy painting or photography more, so I still spend a lot of time doing both.
-
This seems like the debate Australia is having atm on gay marriage: it's not something I'd want to do, but I don't see why I should have a problem with those who do. There's no proposal to make anything compulsory...
-
This seems like the debate Australia is having atm on gay marriage: it's not something I'd want to do, but I don't see why I should have a problem with those who do. There's no proposal to make anything compulsory...
& his photos aren't going to frighten the horses.
-
This seems like the debate Australia is having atm on gay marriage: it's not something I'd want to do, but I don't see why I should have a problem with those who do. There's no proposal to make anything compulsory...
Take it to the next level: what if they adopt kids? Do you guess they will grow up keeping an even keel in life? Will it affect their own views on what's normal and what's not? I think most understand what normality is, so I shall not go into silly arguments over that aspect. My general opinion? It's a rotten hand to have been dealt in life, but that's no reason to perpetuate and place neutral, already vulnerable (by their circumstance) kids into such positions. Let the adults do as they choose, but leave kids alone to find their own way on such matters, not scramble their innocent heads at "home".
IMO.
Rob
-
& his photos aren't going to frighten the horses.
Horses are too dumb to be frightened.
You dispute how dumb? They let people ride them, that's how dumb, when they could flick 'em off as easy as pie!
Rob
-
Small world!
I greatly enjoyed taking your painting workshop last August in Milford, PA; still use things I learned from you every week. And six weeks after your workshop I won 'People's choice' at Seneca Lake plein air with this nocturne:
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5797/30168912535_ba7bd9750c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/MXVyCp)Six thirty am (https://flic.kr/p/MXVyCp) by Geoffrey Wittig (https://www.flickr.com/photos/geoffdoc/), on Flickr
Thank you for the excellent teaching.
Not sure whether I enjoy painting or photography more, so I still spend a lot of time doing both.
It was indeed a pleasure to meet you and share the week...and to hear from you on this forum is a fun thing. Also a big congratulations to you on your award.
Peter
Peter
-
Take it to the next level: what if they adopt kids? Do you guess they will grow up keeping an even keel in life? Will it affect their own views on what's normal and what's not? I think most understand what normality is, so I shall not go into silly arguments over that aspect. My general opinion? It's a rotten hand to have been dealt in life, but that's no reason to perpetuate and place neutral, already vulnerable (by their circumstance) kids into such positions. Let the adults do as they choose, but leave kids alone to find their own way on such matters, not scramble their innocent heads at "home".
IMO.
Rob
We're wandering far from the original post. I have no statistics, only the minimal personal experience of two same-sex couples with children among my circle of friends. In both cases, their children (1 child with one pair, 2 with the other) are now healthy, well-adjusted, socially productive, heterosexual adults as it happens. And no extraordinary angst or problems/issues growing up, either – even in the "teen" years. They certainly "found their own way" on matters of sexuality, and their "innocent heads were never scrambled"; they are delightful young adults. I expect that normality to them (based on what I know of them and their parents) is to seek a relationship that involves love, respect and trust.
As to Alain Briot's article, there may be a number of members who are interested and appreciative, and a number who are not. Kevin's post suggests that he/someone monitors these things. Personally, I don't feel irritated by individual articles that are not of interest to me. There are other articles and other features of interest here at LuLa.
-
As to Alain Briot's article, there may be a number of members who are interested and appreciative, and a number who are not. Kevin's post suggests that he/someone monitors these things. Personally, I don't feel irritated by individual articles that are not of interest to me. There are other articles and other features of interest here at LuLa.
Agreed.
If there's a problem, I think it lies elsewhere ... It lives in the Internet, and is called overexposure to photographic works. Nothing means much anymore; we've seen everything a thousand times over. We have entered the Kindgdom of Glazed Eyes, where the three-minute-mind is a luxury, never mind the long, one-minute-look at anything.
I live in the eternal hope of selling up, and today I found the strength within myself to face the little matter of clearing out junk just in case I get the chance to fly away. Well, I did that for about an hour, and depression set in when I found myself tearing up several albums of photographs I'd made over time using the different printers that came my way. What a gigantic waste of my time making those things; what a waste of funds on the machines I'd bought with which to make them, and the little rivers of extortionately priced Epson and HP inks that were consumed in such fruitless pursuits!
Rob
I know how you feel, Rob. Every time I go down to the basement and see my 4x5 equipment and complete darkroom, I cringe and think along the same lines. I know I grew as a photographer at that time as a result of working in large format and doing my own printing, but...
I still do, however, enjoy the art and craft of photographic print-making, but then again, I'm not at quite the same stage of life.
-
Once again we have a sales pitch headline post masquerading as an editorial piece from Briot.