Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: markowich on August 12, 2006, 07:47:08 am
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Dear friends,
I just noticed a very disturbing issue on (actually all) my leaf aptus 75 files.There
is a sharp color shift/contrast change across the vertical middle line of the images. It is noticable in very bright zoes and even more so in very dark zones.
When looking at the Aptus 75 sensor it becomes apparent that it consists of two equally big parts which are joined together veritically. Is it possible that the color shift stems from this sensor design issue? Actually, I should add that this color shift occurs on all my files, sometimes worse and sometimes less noticable, independent of whether I capture the images with my ALPA SWA (with Schneider Digitar lenses, 24mm and 47mm) or with my Hasselblad H1 using various lenses. I uploaded two (very big) jpgs, which show this ugly effect, on my pbase page:
www.pbase.com/markowich
in the gallery entitled : leaf_aptus_75_test. To see it clearly, look for the vertival middle line of the images.
Both files were converted to jpg using ACR (please believe me that the colorshift also occurs when converting with Leaf Capture!!!), no postprocessing done.
I would be grateful for an explanation and for a (software?) fix, or for advice on how to proceed further. In particular, a response of Jair, who has been very helpfully active on this forum would be highly appreciated. Of course I can provide
the original RAW files via ftp.
With best regards, Peter Markowich
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Hi Peter,
I have seen this before.
Contact user 'rehnniar'. He worked with the developer of http://www.brumbaer.de/Tools/Tools.html (http://www.brumbaer.de/Tools/Tools.html)
to optimise the developer for the e75.
At first there was the same problem you have seen, but they tweaked the processor and the seam became invisible.
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Hi Peter,
I have seen this before.
Contact user 'rehnniar'. He worked with the developer of http://www.brumbaer.de/Tools/Tools.html (http://www.brumbaer.de/Tools/Tools.html)
to optimise the developer for the e75.
At first there was the same problem you have seen, but they tweaked the processor and the seam became invisible.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=73130\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thanks for the reply! But please... let me say that I find this kind of performance
completely inacceptable for a 30 000.- Euro technology. I am expecting a fix from Leaf in their Capture software or, maybe, my sensor is particularly bad such that it has to be replaced.
Best, Peter
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Thanks for the reply! But please... let me say that I find this kind of performance
completely inacceptable for a 30 000.- Euro technology.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=73133\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hello, I am an outsider in this topic because I only shoot a normal 24x36 DSLR, I have now seen this vertical line issue several times. What I dont really understand is that IF the sensors are really 2 24x36mm stitched together, I am a bit amazed about the price of those camera backs. A 24x36sensor doesn't seem to cost that much anymore to manufacture, however the MF backs - which have of course more advantages than just sensor size and pixels - are much much more...
Peter, I have looked at your other galleries, I was impressed by your 2005 Brazil pictures, and particulary by the Iguassu shots. Were they made with film or digital? And if digital, with a MF back or a DSLR?
regards, Bernhard
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Hello, I am an outsider in this topic because I only shoot a normal 24x36 DSLR, I have now seen this vertical line issue several times. What I dont really understand is that IF the sensors are really 2 24x36mm stitched together, I am a bit amazed about the price of those camera backs. A 24x36sensor doesn't seem to cost that much anymore to manufacture, however the MF backs - which have of course more advantages than just sensor size and pixels - are much much more...
Peter, I have looked at your other galleries, I was impressed by your 2005 Brazil pictures, and particulary by the Iguassu shots. Were they made with film or digital? And if digital, with a MF back or a DSLR?
regards, Bernhard
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=73153\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hi Bernhard,
thanks for the compliment! The Brazil shots were taken with a Kodak 14nx.
Best, Peter
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Thanks for the reply! But please... let me say that I find this kind of performance
completely inacceptable for a 30 000.- Euro technology. I am expecting a fix from Leaf in their Capture software or, maybe, my sensor is particularly bad such that it has to be replaced.
Best, Peter
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=73133\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
There is a beta version of the Custom Gain Adjuster which will eventually find it's way into LC 10 that is available. This will eliminate the variance, although it also has the effect of raising the gamma a bit, so be aware that you don't blow highlights out. Leaf will have an adjustable slider to adjust for the gamma at a future date.
For now it is a stand alone app, and in beta form. If anyone requires it, please contact me offline: shendrix@ppratlanta.com.
So far, I have only had one customer who has reported this, so at least at this stage, it appears to be not widespread. Recall also that all digital back sensors have variances and bad pixels as a result of the manufacturing process. There is no such thing as a pristine, perfect sensor. That is why all digital backs either have a calibration file imbeddded into the firmware or on a separate CD that is essentially a re-mapping of that individual CCD, to make an adjustment for the variances and bad pixels. When you do a custom gain file, you're basically creating a re-map of that intial factory calibration.
Steve Hendrix
PPR Digital
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There is a beta version of the Custom Gain Adjuster which will eventually find it's way into LC 10 that is available. This will eliminate the variance, although it also has the effect of raising the gamma a bit, so be aware that you don't blow highlights out. Leaf will have an adjustable slider to adjust for the gamma at a future date.
For now it is a stand alone app, and in beta form. If anyone requires it, please contact me offline: shendrix@ppratlanta.com.
So far, I have only had one customer who has reported this, so at least at this stage, it appears to be not widespread. Recall also that all digital back sensors have variances and bad pixels as a result of the manufacturing process. There is no such thing as a pristine, perfect sensor. That is why all digital backs either have a calibration file imbeddded into the firmware or on a separate CD that is essentially a re-mapping of that individual CCD, to make an adjustment for the variances and bad pixels. When you do a custom gain file, you're basically creating a re-map of that intial factory calibration.
Steve Hendrix
Hi Steve,
thanks for the comments and hints. I agree completely with you, there is certainly a lot of variance in the sensors....but I am wondering if mine isn't far below average....in any case I have never seen this kind of sensor behavior and I wonder if it is not
intrinsically related to the Salsa sensor architecture. I also have a P45, which does not have this problem.....
In any case I would really like to have Leaf come up with a solution soon. I just came back from a trip to China where I used the Leaf back extensively and today I realized what I got....my mistake, I should have done more extensive testing before....
Best, Peter
PPR Digital
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=73155\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
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[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=73158\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
sorry, of course it should be Dalsa instead of Salsa...
Peter
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sorry, of course it should be Dalsa instead of Salsa...
Peter
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=73159\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
ps: Yair just emailed me saying that my back has to be replaced. I appreciate his fast response!
Peter
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Hello Peter,
I have the same issue. Leaf is replacing the back. I will be stuck with this one until they do. Using the Custom Gain Adjuster is the only workaround (aside from switching to retrofocus lenses which don't sit so close to the sensor. In the short term think of this as an education in what shooting super wide with the P45 is like... shoot a photo, shoot a plastic card, shoot a photo, shoot a plastice card....
I believe the problem is with a batch of sensors that LEAF received. The problem has only been known for a few weeks I'm guessing. The vast majority of backs are used by people on H1's and other cameras with retrofocus lenses. As soon as you move the lens further from the sensor the problem goes away (although I am supprised this is not the case for you). As a result, only those of us with these large format style wide angle lenses will have a problem. I have the issue with my 60mm digitar. It does not manifest on the H1 I use. Lens movements also can cause the problem.
On another note, I have an Alpa 12SWA with the 24, 35, and 60 digitars. I really want the 47 also. How do you like your 47 on your Alpa. It is the Helvetar, correct? Any chromatic abberation? Would you buy it again? I am about ready to throw down the cash.
Thanks,
Eric
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ps: Yair just emailed me saying that my back has to be replaced. I appreciate his fast response!
Peter
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=73163\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Leaf is always fast to respond to a problem .
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A friend of mine,Steffen Jahn from Germany,had a similar problem with his A-75.
Leaf replaced his back as well.
Some of the Sinar eMotion's had a similar problem.
Obvious the problem lays with Dalsa!
Regards,
Willem.
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Hello Peter,
I have the same issue. Leaf is replacing the back. I will be stuck with this one until they do. Using the Custom Gain Adjuster is the only workaround (aside from switching to retrofocus lenses which don't sit so close to the sensor. In the short term think of this as an education in what shooting super wide with the P45 is like... shoot a photo, shoot a plastic card, shoot a photo, shoot a plastice card....
I believe the problem is with a batch of sensors that LEAF received. The problem has only been known for a few weeks I'm guessing. The vast majority of backs are used by people on H1's and other cameras with retrofocus lenses. As soon as you move the lens further from the sensor the problem goes away (although I am supprised this is not the case for you). As a result, only those of us with these large format style wide angle lenses will have a problem. I have the issue with my 60mm digitar. It does not manifest on the H1 I use. Lens movements also can cause the problem.
On another note, I have an Alpa 12SWA with the 24, 35, and 60 digitars. I really want the 47 also. How do you like your 47 on your Alpa. It is the Helvetar, correct? Any chromatic abberation? Would you buy it again? I am about ready to throw down the cash.
Thanks,
Eric
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=73182\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
hi eric,
the 47mm lens i have is a schneider digitar. just wonderful, (almost) no chromatic abberation, great microcontrast!
best, peter
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Obvious the problem lays with Dalsa!
If I have understood the problem correctly, it is Leaf's fault, not Dalsa. The electonics (by Leaf) which extract data from the sensor and create the captured image should be mapped to handle the differences between adjacent sensor 'panels', much the same as they map out any dead pixels.
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This is very helpful info. I've been on a product shoot using the A75 for the last week using LF with a sliding back and 80/120 Digitars. No problems with colorshift, and the files are beautiful. Only problem has been when shooting a really sparkly and shimmery subject, the back occasionaly freaks out. Quitting the app and/or trashing prefs solves the problem.
Overall, as a dedicated Phase user and P25 owner, I am very impressed with the A75. I think WA LF is an area that needs improvement/refinement on both Phase and Leaf systems.
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Is the sensor,that is used in the A75,actually two separate smaller components that
are joined or is the problem that some are experiencing the result of some
inconsistency in the dual readout process that Leaf employs?
Mark
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After a little more testing with my new Aptus 75 I am also a winner,
Leaf Aptus 75 Sample (http://www.johngibbel.com/leafAptus75_line.jpg)
I guess they need to start testing these backs before they ship them? Lets just hope I can take care of this before my shoot next week. I was able to get a clean file with the gain adjuster but that’s not always an option. Sometimes I want to use the center filter.
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This is disturbing to see and hear. I'm still waiting on a Leaf 65, but I'm certainly now going to look very closely.
For those of you with this problem, can you post when you received your backs so we can see if there is a pattern that might imply a bad batch. If the dates are scattered, then it might suggest a more pervasive problem.
Thanks,
Robert
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A quote from a trusted colleague!
" Aptus 75: With the introduction of the 7.2/6.8 micron sensors the color cast problem became much more prominent with symmetrical high-end lenses but also with retrofocal lenses. The "centerfold" problem that came up also (Dalsa sensors, but only in some extreme lighting conditions or with extreme movements, same problem with the Sinar eMotion 75) is a rather nasty one. Both can get cured with an up to come gain calibration tool.
So in the end ALL backs from ALL manufacturers need a calibration/correction in one or the other way.
This is hardly acceptable.
The overall performance of the Leaf backs is still better but this is a personal opinion. I hope that Leaf is correcting the residual problems very soon (Canon 22 MP ante portas) as some of our customers with faulty sensors run crazy where others are absolutely happy campers."
IOW , no back is perfect!
Hopefully the next generation will give us less time in post!
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A quote from a trusted colleague!
" Aptus 75: With the introduction of the 7.2/6.8 micron sensors the color cast problem became much more prominent with symmetrical high-end lenses but also with retrofocal lenses. The "centerfold" problem that came up also (Dalsa sensors, but only in some extreme lighting conditions or with extreme movements, same problem with the Sinar eMotion 75) is a rather nasty one. Both can get cured with an up to come gain calibration tool.
So in the end ALL backs from ALL manufacturers need a calibration/correction in one or the other way.
This is hardly acceptable.
The overall performance of the Leaf backs is still better but this is a personal opinion. I hope that Leaf is correcting the residual problems very soon (Canon 22 MP ante portas) as some of our customers with faulty sensors run crazy where others are absolutely happy campers."
IOW , no back is perfect!
Hopefully the next generation will give us less time in post!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=73452\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Unfortunately this is an unaccptable situation. I have been waiting almost 6 weeks for a replacement back from Leaf with no firm date as to when the replacement will arrive. In fact, I know two other APtus 75 photographers who have had their backs replaced and are experiencing the same problem with the replacements.
Imagine, 1 out of every 125 or so Aptus 75's have this problem as reported by a reliable source at Leaf! What does this mean for the company? Can they replace all of the backs? Why are they not working overtime to create a firmware solution?
The PC only crowd does not have a solution as the new gain adjustment softaware is Mac only and is barely a work around as it changes the gamma of ther raw file. pretty sad IMO.
These backs cost photographers a lot of money. Is it too much to ask that they work as advertised?
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I agree 100%, this is a major problem. I have been waiting about 4 -5 weeks for a replacement back. I even spoke with Leaf in Israel about this last night. I was originally told I should have a new back in 2 weeks. When I spoke to Leaf in Israel, they now have no time line. They are having a hard time finding sensors that do not create this problem. The problem sounds like it is with Dalsa, but Leaf is ultimately stuck with the problem.
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Sounds like a clear mandate for Phase One.
I say this with no intention to buy either since I have had zero problems with 4x5 film At least none that were not caused by me.
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I have received several emails from people who are having the same problem.
This evening one fellow mentioned that he purchased an Aptus 65, it had the centerfold issue, it has now been replaced by Leaf for the third time and the back still has the problem.
The problem also exists with the Aptus 22 but I really don't know to what extent. This is a huge problem, assuming that the info provided by leaf is correct and there are hundreds if not thousands of these backs with the centerfold defect.
Can Leaf recall them all? Replace them all?
How might this affect sales and service?
I am not sure where this is all going, but appears that from what people have told me Leaf know of this issue at the begining of the year and said nothing, issued no technical bulletin, and just continued to sell backs.
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Sounds like a clear mandate for Phase One.
I say this with no intention to buy either since I have had zero problems with 4x5 film At least none that were not caused by me.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=76017\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Doug, Phase their own set of issues.
I wouldn't even consider going there, you know the glass house thing.
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My replacement came in two weeks (arrived to Sept 1). It still had the Centerfold issue, and added to that two large diffuse pink blotches (ala Phase One LCC for those of you who know what that looks like). This is all fixed with the Gain Utility, so the problem in not any worse than the first back. It seems that among this crowd, I might be one of the first to have received a replacement. Apparently the people at Leaf headquarters did not know what they were looking for while testing the backs. FYI, The back works as it should with an H1 ... No Centerfold, and no color casts. For anyone using a camera with a mirror box this is a non-issue... ( at least until you try to sell the Digi-back and have no way yourself to tell an architecture, landscape, or view camera shooter whether the back you are selling has the centerfold feature or not).
-Eric
Update... Apparently Leaf sent me the wrong back, during the Friday afternoon office jugling contest the one they sent me accidentally ended up in the good pile.
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Hello.
I have a Aptus 75 on a H2 camera.
I better test it a.s.a.p on a view camera to see if there is a problem.
Can someone who has the problem describe how to test for this problem.
Thanks.
Krister
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Hmm, that does sound like a serious issue .... It'd be interesting to hear some official comment on the matter.
What I find most disturbing is that a replacement can take up to two weeks; in such a case, I'd expect 24 hrs, 48 hrs tops .....
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even after gain adjustment by the viennese leaf representative it turned out that the centerfold problem showed up again. for me as a windows user 80% of the aptus 75 files are unusable. i hope thet leaf will exchange my back for a functioning one.
peter
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for me as a windows user 80% of the aptus 75 files are unusable. i hope thet leaf will exchange my back for a functioning one.
peter
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=76871\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I thought Leaf backs were Mac only? I checked the Leaf America site, and there's nothing listed for Windows. Can you please enlighten me?
Or maybe Leaf could give you a MacBookPro??
Kumar
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You can open a Leaf .mos file on any pc with photoshop raw.
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Any news LEAF. Have you guys found any backs that don't have the line? We need updates.
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Hi John,
I have not heard anything. I call Rick once a week. I will let you know as soon as I receive my replacement. Please do the same.
Best Regards,
Eric
p.s. John: I have posted over on the Leaf Forum about their support of DNG. Could you contribute? I am trying to gather momentum for having more portable and flexible metadata for archiving puposes with the Leaf files.
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For those with the centerfold problem try eMotionDng.
It will convert the mos file to an dng and, when the destich checkbox is marked, will remove the centerfold. The dng can be opened with ACR or Raw Developer. Give it a try.
http://www.brumbaer.com/Tools/Tools.html (http://www.brumbaer.com/Tools/Tools.html)
Regards
SH
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I received a new Aptus 75 to replace my Aptus 75 with the split screen line. On the good side I did get a very clean 30 sec exposure
See Sample of new back image.
(http://www.johngibbel.com/blankdisknewbacksmall.jpg)
(http://www.johngibbel.com/aptus75newsmall.jpg)
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I received a new Aptus 75 to replace my Aptus 75 with the split screen line. On the good side I did get a very clean 30 sec exposure
See Sample of new back image.
I am still wiating, it has been about 2 months maybe a bit more.
I have recently been told that Leaf is getting very close to a fix.
Your going to love this, I heard that there are Leaf Reps still telling people that this is an isolated problem that only 2 people worldwide have had, Leaf fixed the problem for them and all is well.
What is wrong with this picture?
Cautiously Optomistic
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Pixjohn, are these pictures from the new Aptus 75? I hope not because I see the centrefold line clear as day. I kid you not and I am using an IBM X40 laptop which does not have the greatest screen in the world.
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izaack, I was being a little sarcastic
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AH! That must really suck big time. What is Leaf going to do now to 'solve' the problem for you?
I don't envy your situation. It is not kosher for Leaf to leave (pun intended) their customers to find out the problem on their own.
I'm gonna make like a tree...
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I have been told by Leaf that a fix be it firmware/hardware is still several months away. This is very concerning. The new Aptus S backs most probably will have the problem solved by Dalsa but they are also several months away before shipping from what I am told.
I am at the end of my rope.
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I see yaya (Yair) on this forum answering other questions but this one. Why is he NOT addressing this issue? It seems as if he is deliberately evading this problem.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=79349\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Give the poor guy a break, he's polite and helpful. No point in putting him between a rock and a hard place.
This issue should be directed straight at the main tech support team at Leaf, and their answer or non-answer posted here. Ask them whether their products are suitable for wide-angle photography with short-throw lenses.
Edmund
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ATT:LEAF/Mr.Yair
Dear Yair
Please, re-read my previous posts and your answers from two months ago and let the Leaf Just Do It this time.
Perhaps, now you could see that Leaf is better of making their forum public. I personally new about the problems before Mr. Markovich posted his. However, this was in time when Michael was going to do the test with Leaf vs. Phase and I didn’t want to sound like I am in favor of the Phase One. So my dear Yair, let the Leaf forum be public it is much healthier for the business.
Yet again, I hope I’m not asking too much.
Your effort is highly valued and appreciated
Regards
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izaak
I think you absolutely right in your comments. I went to Photokina last week to look primarily at the Leaf products, most probably to be mounted on a Cambo WDS, so this centrefold problem is very relevant to me and many others. Fortunately I haven't made the purchase yet but I wasn't far away from doing so. Yair is a really helpful guy, flew back with him from Photokina to the UK. However, all that said these problems are very serious. At present all of the above is making me looking again at the Phase backs which I had previously discounted because of their more prominent lens cast issue. But at least P1 do have a solution to the problem.
Steve
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Someone at Leaf needs to be pushed to adress this, and find a solution for the photographers affected. I just don't think it should be Yair, he looks to be at the bottom of the food chain, and may even be frightened to get caught in the fallout.
This is one of those cases where the internet allows consumers to circulate the negative features of a product. Keep posting, and something will give ...
Edmund
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Caracalla, you are not missing that much on the Leaf forum. You will see mostly the same topics. I would like to see the Leaf forum read only for none Leaf owners.
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To Leaf,
I am at the point that I do not see a solution to this problem. Something changed between the back I tested and production. Everything I posted here is not news to Leaf. I even heard from someone that they see the same problem shooting the Aptus 65 on a H1.
I have spent a lot of money on my Aptus 75 and live video dongle. I would like to give Leaf a chance to make good on a new working back. Either an Aptus 75 or next generation back. My other option is to go with a phaseone P45+ since it now has live video.
I see and read a lot of promises from DB manufacture, but they cannot live up to them. It is not just Leaf,
1) Where is the beta for 10.1? When I first purchased my back I was told live video would be in version 10 in a few months. (6 months later?)
2) I have figured out a software work around for the centerline, but its very time consuming. The other issue I have with the gain filter it limits the look to my files. Sometimes with longer lenses I want the lens fall off, but can’t achieve the look because of the line. How long before Leaf builds the custom gain into V10 with 1 single shot? The standalone gain adjuster does not work for my style of shooting tethered and V8 takes way to long to shot a gain adjuster.
3) Another issue I have it resale. Is my back going to be worth less $$ one day because of the centerline?
I have been on the phone with Leaf from Israel, NY and CA. When I spoke to NY today I got the impression that, it’s just the way it is. I do believe Leaf needs to stop making people feel likes it’s only a few backs that have the problem. Stop taking the Bush administration point of view.
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All,
First, I would like to apologize for keeping it silent for more than 2 hours on a Friday night...some of you states side may forget that here on the island we are some 5-8 hours ahead of you, but anyway.
Anyone who follows this forum, knows that since the first post regarding the "centrefold" issue, I have been passing on any information I had that could have helped, in both directions.
Any current user who contacted us with this issue, has being taken care of in the best possible way under the circumstances, either on or off-line.
There is no magic here and our people are working hard to find a solution, as crude or as elegant as it may be and we are doing our best to keep these customers informed with any updates.
To put things into perspective, off the several hundreds of Aptus 75 backs that were shipped so far, there are only 15-20 cases world-wide that are currently being dealt with. This is by no means to diminish any of these cases.
The ultimate solution has yet to be found. This may turn out to be a design update at the sensor level, or a firmware/ software fix. We currently have several faithful customers helping us in testing a few of these options.
There is a Leaf Custom Gain Adjuster utility that allows the user to correct any effected file. This app not only fixes the "Centrefold", but it also addresses any colour shifts and lens fall-off/ vignetting. This is not the most elegant and straightforward fix - more likely serving as a test bed for a new algorithm later to be implemented into our capture software.
If at any point down the line, a change in sensor design comes up and resolves this issue, this will of course be everyone's most desired solution.
Wide-Angle photography seems to be the most challenging for digital devices, most certainly when non retro-focal lenses are in use and shifts are being applied.
All digital backs suffer from it to some extent, in one way or another. The solutions from the manufacturers are different to one another, some work better than others.
So at the moment, if one is to choose a back for this type of work. The Aptus 75 is still one of the most capable of producing great results. It may require additional steps to achieve that, but this is, as I said before, a temporary measure until a final solution has been set.
For any further info and direct communication with our support team, you are most welcome to email them via leaf.support@creo.com
Please note that I was never appointed to represent Leaf on this forum. I have started contributing several months ago out of personal interest.
If it turns out that I have to take the fire here, then be it, but I would appreciate it if the discussion can be kept on a professional level, saving any personal attacks. I'd also appreciate it if anyone pointing fingers could post under a real name, makes the conversation allot more comfortable.
Have a good weekend
Yair
Creo UK Ltd., a subsidiary of Kodak.
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Yair Shahar | Leaf EMEA | Regional Manager |
yair.shahar@creo.com | www.leaf-photography.com
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Without going into a lot of detail and naming names (I have agreed not to repeat a lot of what has been told to me by Leaf, their reps and others) I have spoken at length with folks in Israel, the USA and others. The problem is acknowledged by Leaf and is NOT limited to the Aptus 75 and cameras with movements. A number of Aptus 22's have had the problem as far back as a year orso ago. So Leaf has know about this for quite some time.
In fact, I received a call from a film director friend of mine who tells me that one of the major HDTV cameras is also suffering from the centerfold issue. I don't know if that device uses the Dalsa chip but in my opinion this is a Dalsa problem and Leaf and Sinar are having to deal with it.
After I returned by Aptus 75 to my dealer who sent it to Leaf I received an Aptus 22 loaner. It is a nice gesture but took way too long after I continually demanded a loaner. I was asked to be patient as Leaf was working on the issue and on the verge of a solution. The solution unfortunately is a gain adjustment file that leaves the file looking unacceptable for my use.
I bought my Aptus 75 February 26, 2006....it was not delivered until late June. I found the centerfold problem in mid July and returned the unit August 8. It is now October 6 and still there is no fix in sight. Today I was notified it could be another month to three months until I receive a new back. 6 months is a long time to have this kind of money tied up.
As far as the suggestion that tha Aptus is not appropriate for wide angle lenses and cameras with movements I can only say that I was assured that the Leaf back was more appropriate than the Phase product due to the significant color fringing the Phase exhibits with camera movements. This was not an issue, was discussed and deemed a good architectural solution.
Yair is a first class guy! He is genuinely concerned and has done everything he can to help even though his not a USA rep. Anyone who takes him to task is off base and should apologize. Yair should be commended for his participation in these forums and not chided.
It is also my opinion and feeling that the Leaf position is comprised of political talking points that trickle down through the internet by proxy. They are comprised of some fact and some optomistic pandering. The reality of the situations is that there are significantly more than 15-20 backs with this problem. I personally know almost that many people who are experiencing the problem.
As time goes on I am confident that Leaf will solve the problem whether it is a software or hardware fix. The Aptus is a great product and has huge potential. I just hope that Leaf comes clean and publicly addresses the issue because I fear that this is a serious problem that may damage them significantly and none of us want to see that happen.
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If I have so presumed erroneously, then I apologise to you, Yair. However, you are speaking on Leaf's behalf, even though it is in your private capacity. The fact that you sign off as you do makes you an official rep, even though you disclaim it. Perhaps you should add a line that you are speaking in your private capacity and do not represent the position of Leaf.
That said, I am not about to launch into you. However, you do know that the majority of those who buy your $30 000.00 backs are professionals whose reputations live and die on their ability to deliver desired results.
Do you expect a professional to live with the problem until you find a solution...if at all? Meanwhile, what is he going to tell his client?
It is my humble estimation that Leaf Israel has taken this problem far far too lightly. You are not making backs for rich hobbyists or doctors, lawyers or dentists. Those who buy your backs are professionals who need them to work. There can be no ifs ands or buts. Either we deliver or we perish.
Since the introduction of the Aptus, something has happened at Leaf. Promised features do not work. Promises on delivery are often missed; 'soon' often means one year or more.
A product like this should never have made it to market. It is, in plain English, defective. Your buyers are not your beta-testers. We have enough to worry about on a commercial campaign without also stressing out over our camera gear without which we won't be called photographers! We have only one chance to look good to our clients. An unwanted Centrefold is not what makes us look good.
Can we count on Leaf any longer?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=79374\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
My signature is there so whoever joins or reads this conversation will know who the person behind the words is.
I am sorry but I feal very uncomfortable discussing such a serious matter with an alias.
If this puts you in an awkward position, please feal free to contact me off-line on my email address above, or directly to our support team with any suggestions/ requests that you may have, in order to convert this discussion into actions and not to leave it as a general attack.
Best
Yair
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In fact, I received a call from a film director friend of mine who tells me that one of the major HDTV cameras is also suffering from the centerfold issue. I don't know if that device uses the Dalsa chip but in my opinion this is a Dalsa problem and Leaf and Sinar are having to deal with it.
Over the past couple of months I've had access to all the 35-39 Mp backs currently
discussed regularly on this forum.
During the course of that testing I came across a situation where one of the NON Dalsa
chipped backs had a fairly pronounced centerfold issue.
It only occurred on a few frames (long exposure with even tone blue sky) and didn't repeat
itself in any other situation that I could determine.
I don't want to post the example yet,or name the brand,until the dealers,who have been very
generous in getting me access,and manufacturer have had a chance to review and respond.
The center split was much less obvious that the A75 example posted,here, earlier today but
present nevertheless so i would urge non-Dalsa back users to keep their eyes peeled for something similar.
In my particular case it occurred on dusk exposures of 12-15 seconds with a dominance
of continuous tone blue sky in the frame which made the line easy to spot.
Used a fixed lens camera (non shifting) with a wide angle lens.
Apologies for seeming evasive but I don't want to be responsible for creating an unneccessary
'internet stampede' if it's determined that what i saw was prompted by something I did
inadveretantly,etc.
Mark
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Over the past couple of months I've had access to all the 35-39 Mp backs currently
discussed regularly on this forum.
During the course of that testing I came across a situation where one of the NON Dalsa
chipped backs had a fairly pronounced centerfold issue.
It only occurred on a few frames (long exposure with even tone blue sky) and didn't repeat
itself in any other situation that I could determine.
I don't want to post the example yet,or name the brand,until the dealers,who have been very
generous in getting me access,and manufacturer have had a chance to review and respond.
The center split was much less obvious that the A75 example posted,here, earlier today but
present nevertheless so i would urge non-Dalsa back users to keep their eyes peeled for something similar.
In my particular case it occurred on dusk exposures of 12-15 seconds with a dominance
of continuous tone blue sky in the frame which made the line easy to spot.
Used a fixed lens camera (non shifting) with a wide angle lens.
Apologies for seeming evasive but I don't want to be responsible for creating an unneccessary
'internet stampede' if it's determined that what i saw was prompted by something I did
inadveretantly,etc.
Mark
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=79381\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Mark hi,
If only for the fairness of giving all the manufacturers the same share of grief. May I suggest that once a reasonable period of time has passed without you getting a response from that other manufacturer, you do go ahead and post that sample image.
I think I know what you are talking about and I also know the cause of the problem, but it would be interesting to see if any other rep (under an alias or not) will be willing to take the heat.
Thanks
Yair
PS Steve I'll be happy to show you our (temporary) solution at any time
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If only for the fairness of giving all the manufacturers the same share of grief.
What! You mean you'd want to share the limelight
Certainly,and for balance,I think it would be fair to post the sample once the neccessary people
have had a chance to review the affected files properly.
Mark
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I will add my name to the list of people with the "centerfold" problem. So I guess we are now 16-21 people worldwide
I took delivery of my Aptus 75 for H1 not too long ago, and has already had it show up in a large amount of photos. My rep is currently looking into the problem.
Meanwhile I am keeping my Aptus22.
best regards
Svein Erik Sundsteigen
Ph +47 922 44 976
www.Sundsteigen.com
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I will add my name to the list of people with the "centerfold" problem. So I guess we are now 16-21 people worldwide
I took delivery of my Aptus 75 for H1 not too long ago, and has already had it show up in a large amount of photos. My rep is currently looking into the problem.
Meanwhile I am keeping my Aptus22.
best regards
Svein Erik Sundsteigen
Ph +47 922 44 976
www.Sundsteigen.com
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=79527\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Could we for a change hear from someone who DOESN'T have this problem with his or her Aptus 75?
If this 'centrefold' is a freak occurence, surely there must be many.
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Could we for a change hear from someone who DOESN'T have this problem with his or her Aptus 75?
If this 'centrefold' is a freak occurence, there must be many.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=79528\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I agree, let's have some reports from people who don't have the issue - we now have it reported on Alpa or similar and on H1 - can someone who use Mamiya report, hopefully that (s)he doesn't see it ? Can people who don't use wides state that they don't see it ? Surely, if people have been using the camera commercially on an everyday basis the effect must be sufficiently restrained, so that in many cases one can say that it is of no practical importance ?
Edmund
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I will add my name to the list of people with the "centerfold" problem. So I guess we are now 16-21 people worldwide
I took delivery of my Aptus 75 for H1 not too long ago, and has already had it show up in a large amount of photos. My rep is currently looking into the problem.
Meanwhile I am keeping my Aptus22.
best regards
Svein Erik Sundsteigen
Ph +47 922 44 976
www.Sundsteigen.com
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=79527\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Ah, the "rep is looking into the problem" response.
Well, welcome to the very exclusive club of Aptus 75 users who have fallen victim to this Leaf/Dalsa defective product. Leaf claims that there are only about 15-20 people worldwide sufferingf rom this affliction. I think they have it wrong, there may be a high degree of probability that out of thousands of back sold only 15-20 do not have the problem.
As you can probably gather from the tone of my writing my limit has been reached.
Buyer beware!
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I do find it interesting that such a large proportion of those 15-20 people worldwide have posted to this particular thread at this particular website.
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I have no centerfold problem with my Leaf 65. I'ved used it with the following lenses: Digitar 24XL, Mamiya 35, 45, 55, 80, 120macro, 150, and 300. No problems. Exposure times have varied from 2 sec to maybe 1/1000 or so.
Regards,
Robert Jones
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I have had one Aptus 22 and three Aptus 75's. The 22 had no issues at all. All three Aptus 75's performed perfectly on an H1 with the 50-110mm zoom and 1 of them I even tested on the H1 with the 35mm lens with no problems. No color shifts, No centerfold. The retrofocus world was perfect.
In contrast, the same three Aptus 75's showed centerfold and colorcasts when used with the 24, 35, 47, and 60mm Schneider digitars.
I suspect that the number of circa 15 people having this problem has more to do with the number of people who own or use wide angle Schneider Digitar and Rodenstock HR lenses. It is not the fact the lenses are wide but that, because of their design, they sit very close to the sensor.
-Eric
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I have no centerfold problem with my Leaf 65. I'ved used it with the following lenses: Digitar 24XL, Mamiya 35, 45, 55, 80, 120macro, 150, and 300. No problems. Exposure times have varied from 2 sec to maybe 1/1000 or so.
Regards,
Robert Jones
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=79573\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Robert
I am very interested in your findings. Perhaps you would be kind enough to tell us if you have used the 24xl with any shift, though I realise there isn't much scope for this with the A65. I am no expert on lens design but it does appear to me that this centrefold issue is exacerbated when light is focused on the sensor, hitting it at a very oblique angle i.e. with wide angle lenses close to the senor, further exaggerated with shift maybe.
Steve
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Steve,
I use the Leaf 65 on an Alpa SWA with the 24XL (I believe it is the same set-up as Eric's; I'm still waiting for a 47XL).
There is very little room to shift. Mathematically, I believe the lens can cover and shift 2-3mm on the Leaf 65 (its 2-4mm shorter in each dimension than the Leaf 75), which is about the extent that the baffle about the rear element on the 24XL will allow the lens to move on the SWA when the back is in place. I have not tried shifting this lens, but will try it out and report back.
Robert
_____
Addendum:
I shifted the lens and had no problems with 24XL: no centerfold or CA noted. Images were taken between f8 and f11, and processed with Raw Developer. There was no color cast difference between the images. (As I mentioned on this forum in another thread about hyperfocal length, avoid f5.6 to minimize CA with this lens.)
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I have just realised that if I shoot high ISO (400 or 800) I get the "centerfold" on every photo, with every lens. Even my 150mm 3.2, where the rays should be hitting the sensor a lot more in line.
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I have just realised that if I shoot high ISO (400 or 800) I get the "centerfold" on every photo, with every lens. Even my 150mm 3.2, where the rays should be hitting the sensor a lot more in line.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=79590\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Hi
I noticed from an earlier reply that you have both the A75 and A22. The problem you are highlighting here applies just to the 75?? The A75 and the A22 are two of the backs on my shortlist so I am particularly interested.
Regards Steve
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I have just realised that if I shoot high ISO (400 or 800) I get the "centerfold" on every photo, with every lens. Even my 150mm 3.2, where the rays should be hitting the sensor a lot more in line.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=79590\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Just a hunch, but if I were a betting man I would bet that the problem with the Leaf/Dalsa product is far more reaching then Leaf would have us all believe.
I believe that there is a method to Hasselblads maddness regarding their stance to provide lens corrections within the back. I think that the current centerfold issues, color fringing and cast issues on the Phase are but only the begining. There will be solutions and fixes, but at the cost of these back the R&D should have been done before the products were released.
I am not an attorney nor an advocate of class action litigation, but I would hate to see some young shark get hold of Leaf, Sinar, and Dalsa on this one, my fear is that it is only a matter of time unless Leaf finds a firmware or hardware fix as soon as possible. These software gain file solutions are kludgy and half baked at best.
Just my opinion.
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I believe that there is a method to Hasselblads maddness regarding their stance to provide lens corrections within the back. I think that the current centerfold issues, color fringing and cast issues on the Phase are but only the begining. There will be solutions and fixes, but at the cost of these back the R&D should have been done before the products were released.
Just my opinion.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=79593\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
You may be right; H presenting lens/back integration as an improvement when in fact it is a necessity.
Edmund
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You may be right; H presenting lens/back integration as an improvement when in fact it is a necessity.
Edmund
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=79595\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Yup, I think that it is inevitable. Leaf and Sinar will undoubtably do the same thing is the Hi'ya6 or AF'oye.
The technology is in it's infancy and will need to mature to solve the issues at hand.
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Hi
I noticed from an earlier reply that you have both the A75 and A22. The problem you are highlighting here applies just to the 75?? The A75 and the A22 are two of the backs on my shortlist so I am particularly interested.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=79592\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
I have not had any such problem on my A22 back shooting with everything from Hassy 905swc to 24mm digitars.
I have to admit I am thinking of maybe "going back" to just the A22. For my work (fashion/commerical) the shooting speed of about 1 frame per 3sek of the A75 is really slow. The A22 shoots as fast as the winder on my old 503cw could pull in c-mode.
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Thanks for the reply! But please... let me say that I find this kind of performance
completely inacceptable for a 30 000.- Euro technology. I am expecting a fix from Leaf in their Capture software or, maybe, my sensor is particularly bad such that it has to be replaced.
Best, Peter
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=73133\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Agree 100%, one shouldnt have to worry about those issues with a $900 dslr MUCH less a $30k back. Its absurd on has to find out about the issue and then figure out a solution when the MFG should have found that stuff out in testing of the unit before even marketing it. I would be furious. I would want my money back and then some.
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Just a hunch, but if I were a betting man I would bet that the problem with the Leaf/Dalsa product is far more reaching then Leaf would have us all believe.
Indeed it is further reaching than you'd think- the Sinar eMotion 75 has the same problem, so it's clearly a Dalsa issue.
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To sum it up:
- with the Aptus 75 , there is a high likeliness of having the centerfold issue when using non-retrofocus wide angle lenses ( all view camera lenses ), even worse while using shift / tilt, as needed for still life/ architecture photography.
- the software solution offered by Leaf is considered acceptable by some, but alters the file in a possibly undesirable way and requires shooting some white plastic sheet along with the actual shot.
- some users reported they experienced the problem with non wide angle lenses ( 60 mm and longer ) and the Hasselblad H1 .
I assume the Leaf R&D team has been made aware of the issue, and have all sorts of equipment at their disposal for testing.
Even though, there is no official statement by Leaf which addresses the problem...
I was really close to getting the Aptus 75, but now my local Leaf rep will have to deal with a tough customer regarding warranty and replacement.
Judging by the posts I've read, you guys affected must have the patient of a saint, waiting for weeks for a replacement or repair.
As a professional, I expect a free loaner or replacement back within a day, 2 days tops.
If Leaf can't provide that, they can not be considered a viable partner for pros.
Best,
Tom
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Hi Tom,
Just regarding summing it up....
The white plastic sheet is called a "Gain Diffuser" by Leaf. It is a tranlucent white plexi disc about 3" round which is placed over the lens. It's function is nearly identical to the white 6" x 8" plexi that Phase One provides. The Phase One LCC feature uses the image of the white plexi to remove the color casts that can occur with shifts, tilts, and wide angle non-retrofocus lenses. The eMotion backs come supplied with a similar plexi card for the same purpose.
With the Kodak chip the irregularities are in the form of color shifts. With Dalsa Chips there are both Color shifts and on some A75's and Emotion 75's the now famous "Centerfold" line.
The distressed Aptus users bought Aptus 75's being told by reps and dealers months ago that we would be free of a workflow requiring the photography of special plexi diffusers and the use of special steps in processing. Shooting with the Aptus 22 was a dream. Just shoot the picture and process it. No color shifts, no centerfold. The Aptus 75 was supposed to be the same, just more pixels. We are dissapointed. Leaf is working to help us... but ....
Physics being what they are in state of the art sensor design, Kodak and Dalsa are doing the best they can. You cannot escape these issues by buying a Phase One, Imacon, or a Sinar MFDB.
You should know that with the eMotion and Aptus backs that the software solution creates a new file which has been corrected. This means you can move forward and process your files in ACR or RAW developer. This is not true of Phase one. As long as their LCC is written as a set of processing instructions then you will spend the rest of your life with RAW files which must be processed in special Phase One software.
I also have experience using the "Pattern Noise Redution" in C1 pro. It does a good of removing the pattern noise that can occur with wide digitars and Phase One backs, but it steals away detail as well.
The Leaf and eMotion solutions also provide an easy abitliy to eliminate Lens Fall-off utilizing the calibration shot you've made to eliminate the Centerfold and colorcast. Phase one does not.
If you can spend some time doing demos with the backs, that is best. If you are comfortable enough, then rent the backs for several jobs. There are also good dealers who will spend hours with you at their stores showing you the workflow of the different systems. This way you would not have to spend soo much time installing and poking around the software the night before a big shoot.
It is more difficult with the wide digitars, Cambos, and Alpas because most reps and dealers are more prepared to show you the MFDB's on H1's with retrofocus lenses. The experience of using these backs that way is very different.
-Eric S
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Thanks for the information, Eric,
I will certainly do some extensive testing with the Aptus backs before I purchase one.
Fortunately, my local Leaf rep in Hamburg has been very helpful and forthcoming in the past.
As a still life photographer, I do 2-3 shots a day, so I can live with a less than perfect workflow, but not with a damaged file out of the camera wich needs to be corrected.
Imagine a lab sends your 4x5 sheets back cut in half, with a download link for stitching software... .
Best,
Tom
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I assume the Leaf R&D team has been made aware of the issue, and have all sorts of equipment at their disposal for testing.
Even though, there is no official statement by Leaf which addresses the problem...
Best,
Tom
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=79850\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Tom hi, I must be using some kind of invisible ink...since I've responded several times on this forum in various threads on this subject<_<
But anyway, thanks to Eric you now have a more complete answer and I'm sure they guys at Calumet will be able to show you the ins and outs of the solution.
Best
Yair
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With my personal experience, Calumet does not even know how to turn the digital back on.
Basically they are clueless.
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With my personal experience, Calumet does not even know how to turn the digital back on.
Basically they are clueless.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=79906\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
John we are talking Europe here The guy in Hamburg knows his stuff...
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Hi Yair,
Can you ship some of the guys form Hamburg to Los Angeles? We could use them out here. I understand where John is coming from (because I am here).
-Eric
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Tom hi, I must be using some kind of invisible ink...since I've responded several times on this forum in various threads on this subject<_<
But anyway, thanks to Eric you now have a more complete answer and I'm sure they guys at Calumet will be able to show you the ins and outs of the solution.
Best
Yair
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=79903\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Yair,
You got that wrong, sorry if I didn't express myself properly, 'official' was referring to a clear statement by Leaf, the company, on the issue with a listing of possibly affected configurations.
Like many others, I much appreciate your input and assistance in all things Leaf on a public forum, keep up the good work !
Brown-nosing aside , I'll get in touch with Calumet Hamburg as soon as I'm back in Germany and report my findings.
Best,
Tom
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John we are talking Europe here The guy in Hamburg knows his stuff...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=79909\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
That was my impression, too, and he won't bullshit you.
Hi Yair,
Can you ship some of the guys form Hamburg to Los Angeles?
-Eric
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=79911\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Not gonna happen, you go find your own skilled reps !
Tom
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Yair,
You got that wrong, sorry if I didn't express myself properly, 'official' was referring to a clear statement by Leaf, the company, on the issue with a listing of possibly affected configurations.
Like many others, I much appreciate your input and assistance in all things Leaf on a public forum, keep up the good work !
Brown-nosing aside , I'll get in touch with Calumet Hamburg as soon as I'm back in Germany and report my findings.
Best,
Tom
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=79972\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
No problem, thanks to the many posts here and on our users forum, we are preparing a ducument that will be made public that covers the various issues with modern sensors and wide-angle LF lenses and current technology overview.
It will also cover the current solutions/ remedies and will be ready in a few days time, along with the requested statement from the company.
Yair
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mkravit, my understanding from the Leaf forum that you are going to return your Aptus 75?
EricStaud, Your comments also on the Leaf forum regarding preproduction backs and testing are right on. I also based my purchase on the test I shot with the Aptus 75 and the article about shooting architectural photography with the leaf back.
http://www.leaf-photography.com/files/user...rdonBarHama.pdf (http://www.leaf-photography.com/files/userstories/Testimonial-ArdonBarHama.pdf)
http://www.digitar.alpavision.ch/ (http://www.digitar.alpavision.ch/)
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No problem, thanks to the many posts here and on our users forum, we are preparing a ducument that will be made public that covers the various issues with modern sensors and wide-angle LF lenses and current technology overview.
It will also cover the current solutions/ remedies and will be ready in a few days time, along with the requested statement from the company.
Yair
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=79984\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thanks Yair,
That's good news !
Best,
Tom
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I posted the following on the Leaf User forum this evening.....
"Today I received a telephone call from Leaf in Israel. I was asked to allow Leaf to send me a replacement back with a new Dalsa Chip that is said to be tested and free of the centerfold issue. It was difficult to make the decision to leave Leaf as I really believe their product is the best for architectural photography and has the nicest look of any back I have tested.
I was so impressed by the personal committment of Leaf and their personnel that I felt it would be unfair to not allow this company another shot. I am no one in the scheme of things, but Leaf has made me feel like someone special. I sincerely hope that the new chip and back perform as promised, you have made a friend and a customer for a long, log time. I would ask that as difficult as it may be, to find a methodology whereby Leaf can keep their customer base informed of issues, problems and efforts to resolve the problems. It is the lack of communication that festers in ones soul and creates dissatisfaction.
Thank you for your efforts and I look forward to many fine images down the road. "
Warmest regards,
Michael
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I was also told the replacement back I recived was going to be free of the center line. Lets hope they got it right this time.
(http://www.johngibbel.com/blankdisknewbacksmall.jpg)
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Hi John,
What has Leaf decided to do with your replacement back? Give you a replacement's replacement?
What have you decided to do about it? Are you keeping it?
Curious minds want to know.
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i received my replacement aptus 75 a few days ago. initial tests with the digitar 24XL on the ALPA SWA show no centerfold split at all and no visible color shift. of course i will conduct further tests with the 47mm XL and with the H1 sytem. at the moment it looks very good! thanks Yair&theleafcrowd!
peter
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GREAT NEWS! Peter,
I am sure it will work better then fine. I truly believe if they fix their shortcomings
they are not far from a leading position in the industry.
REGARDS
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i received my replacement aptus 75 a few days ago. initial tests with the digitar 24XL on the ALPA SWA show no centerfold split at all and no visible color shift. of course i will conduct further tests with the 47mm XL and with the H1 sytem. at the moment it looks very good! thanks Yair&theleafcrowd!
peter
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=83058\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Congratulations, I am sure you will enjoy the use of one of the finest photographic tools available on the market. As reported earlier my replacement back is also 100% free of the vertical centerfold.
Leaf has once again shown that they are committed to the photographic industry. Their customer service is 2nd to none and they continue to improve an already incredible product.