Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Mirrorless Cameras => Topic started by: Rdmax on April 24, 2017, 09:38:39 pm

Title: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
Post by: Rdmax on April 24, 2017, 09:38:39 pm
Got a Canon 5DS and thinking of making the jump to A7RII... any thoughts?
Title: Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
Post by: Marek_Wojtaszek on April 24, 2017, 11:45:17 pm
I've moved from sony a700 to a6000. No way that I could return.
Title: Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
Post by: aduke on April 25, 2017, 12:51:24 am
I recently moved from a Canon 7D system to a Sony A6000. There is no reason to consider going back to Canon. I had begun to struggle with the weight of the Canon kit and now, my camera with 18-55 mm, 55-210 and a Zeiss 12mm and the vest that carries them all, plus space batteries and cards weighs about 5 lbs, total.

While image quality seems to be comparable, it was seemingly easier to achieve the quality I look for with the Canon gear, but with sufficient care, the Sony will equal or exceed the Canon.

Alan
Title: Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
Post by: ErikKaffehr on April 25, 2017, 01:40:40 am
Hi,

I use a Sony A7rII, mostly with Canon lenses (16-35/4 L, 24/3.5 TSE LII and 24-105/4L).

For slow work that I mostly do the Sony A7rII is quite OK. I would probably not use it for action, at least not with Canon lenses.

Next lens I buy will probably be, Canon's 100-400/4.5-5.6 L (or what it is called?!). To that lens I would also probably buy a Canon 7DII, for shooting birds.

The advantages of mirrorless are:

- Accurate manual using magnified live view
- Vibration free
- Accurate AF
- Works well in dark places (good visibility)

Disadvantage is viewfinder lag, view is delayed. In an SLR you see the image in real time, with an EVF there is some delay.

Shutter response on an EVF may be faster than on a DSLR, though.

Best regards
Erik

Got a Canon 5DS and thinking of making the jump to A7RII... any thoughts?
Title: Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
Post by: Paulo Bizarro on April 25, 2017, 04:31:26 am
Yes. Just look at the lenses, and see if they have what you require.
Title: Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
Post by: mbaginy on April 25, 2017, 05:43:02 am
I’m absolutely delighted since switching from Canon 5D and 5D MkIII to Fujifilm X-T1, X-Pro1 and X100T.

My main reason for initially looking closely at Fujifilm was the aperture ring on most lenses.  I’m more of an analog-style photographer.  Since switching, I really like the ability to check for blow out highlights in the viewfinder before taking a shot.

The only piece of gear I’m missing is a true macro lens with tripod collar for the X-mount.  Such a beast will probably never see the light of day  :(  so I’ll stick with my Minolta MD 100 macro (with Novoflex adaptor).

I love the smaller and lighter gear and really notice, how others no longer notice the camera I’m carrying.  :)
Title: Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
Post by: Guillermo Luijk on April 25, 2017, 08:08:40 am
Couldn't be happier. Switched from Canon APS/FF to MFT and Sony FE. Completely changed my user experience from a mainly trial & error approach to a single shot WYSIWYG exposure, saved weight and size, and gained IQ (for the MFT this happened when Olympus started to use Sony sensors).

Regards
Title: Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
Post by: Martin Kristiansen on April 25, 2017, 10:24:22 am
After years of shooting various Canon 1DS and 1D bodies got rid of every scrap of Canon gear except for two body caps that turned up in a drawer.

Replaced it all with an A6000 and A6300. Various lenses and flashes. Happy with everything except the 55 to 210 lens. It's a dog.

I won't go back to DSLR. No way. Love the EVF. Love the weight and size of the cameras. I'm a commercial product photographer. Images seldom go bigger than A5. I shoot a lot of personal work in quite dangerous areas. The little sonys are the business. Taking no them to Tibet for July. I'm totally confidant that if I don't get good images that it will be my fault and not the cameras.

Bit of a learning curve. Sony menus are a bit odd but I'm comfortable with them now. Amuses me when I see signs saying no professional cameras and I stroll past with a smile. People don't take the little cameras seriously.
Title: Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
Post by: mecrox on April 25, 2017, 10:27:04 am
Got a Canon 5DS and thinking of making the jump to A7RII... any thoughts?

It's a different shooting experience with mirrorless. Not better or worse, just different. I'd suggest renting or some kind of trial to make sure you are happy with it.

I went from Pentax DSLRs to Olympus M43. The EVF allows precise adjustment of focus and exposure settings, so you can see when you are off. My keeper rate has gone up, things are generally easier. The weight/size saving is significant at least with primes and smaller lenses, and I like Oly's modern M43 lenses which are fast, optically good and so far trouble-free.  But ... there is still something a little soulless about the mirrorless experience. It's very high tech and efficient with it, and generally I am very pleased indeed with the change, but something in me still misses analogue a bit or at least a more analogue style. As I said, test first to make sure it's for you. There seem to be plenty of adapters which will allow you to use Canon lenses on Sony or Olympus and probably others. If Canon come out with a cracking mirrorless offering in the future then the adapter approach means you could probably keep your Canon lenses against a return later. Just sayin', though most folks seem to switch the lot and that's it.
Title: Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
Post by: Alan Smallbone on April 25, 2017, 10:39:53 am
A former Canon owner, 5DmII and 1DM4 and many previous iterations, moved to Fuji X cameras and love it. No regrets.

Alan
Title: Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
Post by: Eric Brody on April 25, 2017, 11:35:13 am
In the film era, I used Nikons, Hasselblad, Mamiya 7, and 4x5. In the digital era I used Nikon, Olympus, and now Fuji. As others have said there is a different workflow with mirrorless, a more efficient, easier, more pleasant workflow in my view. I also agree you should rent or borrow a mirrorless camera for long enough to understand and appreciate these differences. The entire concept of exposure in mirrorless is simplified, you see, you get, and with a current histogram in the finder if you wish, without a loupe on the back of the camera in clumsy live view. It's always live view, with lots of information... or none at all, depending on your style. The difference is almost as profound as digital vs darkroom printing. In darkroom printing you iterate with lots of sheets of paper guessing each time if this print will be "the one." In digital printing, with a calibrated system, you get it right on the monitor and often get it right or very close with the first print. I enjoy using my lighter easier to carry about mirrorless camera a lot. You may or may not. Be aware that while the M4/3 and Fuji systems have many small excellent lightweight lenses, the full frame mirrorless, e.g. Sony, require larger often heavier lenses to be fast and cover the full frame sensor. There are smaller primes in the Sony system but the best zooms are pretty big. That may or may not be a deal breaker for you. I put together a spreadsheet with the weights of the bodies and common lenses for Fuji and Sony. PM me if you'd like to look at it. Try not to fall into the trap of thinking you'll realistically use your "legacy" lenses just because you can mount them. Most do not work as well and significantly complicate things except of certain exotics (I kept my Nikon tilt shift lenses).
Good luck on your quest. Ask the hard questions, what do I gain, what do I lose, is it worth the money? But have fun.
Title: Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
Post by: Otto Phocus on April 25, 2017, 12:39:35 pm
I still have my big DSLR brick.  If I go out specifically to take photographs, I might take it along.

But since buying the x100T, that's the camera that I take with me more often.

Am I going to ditch my DSLR?  Probably not.  But it may end up spending more of its time on the shelf where as the mirrorless is spending more time with me.
Title: Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
Post by: rdonson on April 25, 2017, 04:09:53 pm
I got my first Canon pro SLR in 1970 (F1).  I've been shooting Canon DSLRs for well over a decade.  From early DSLRs to 1DM2 to 5D to 7D, etc. and a number of L glass lenses.  They now do a fine job of keeping a shelf in my space from floating away.

I tried the Fuji X-T1 a couple of years ago as my walkabout camera and was blown away by the ergonomics and image quality.  I still have it as a backup but now mostly shoot with my X-T2.  I also have a growing collection of Fuji lenses.

No way do I envision going back to DSLRs.  Too many benefits to mirrorless for me to backtrack. 
Title: Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
Post by: adriantyler on April 25, 2017, 04:29:25 pm
i went from film 2 1/4 hasselblads, 4x5, nikons & leica m6 to the digital nikon d3x, then the d800, then to sony.  i love the rx1 as much as my old hasselblad swc.  the a7rII has an incredible sensor, just incredible what you can pull out of those raw files.  so if the change from nikon to sony mirrorless was a good one for me, the change form the a7II to the a7rII has been amazing...
Title: Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
Post by: Telecaster on April 25, 2017, 05:14:57 pm
I love the mechanics of SLRs. Film SLRs, that is.  ;)  D-SLRs are IMO "one foot in the door, the other refusing to budge" affairs. Once I got my hands on an interchangeable lens EVF-equipped gizmo I thought, "Ah, this is a proper electronic camera!" Been mostly sans mirror ever since.

-Dave-
Title: Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
Post by: David Sutton on April 25, 2017, 05:55:26 pm
Moved from 5DII to XT-1 and now XT-2.
- no more calibrating lenses for focussing errors
- no longer having to think of losing detail due to mirror slap (moving the mirror up on a DSLR is not always an option)
- I can focus using the electronic viewfinder with 10 stops of ND filter on the front of the lens
- big difference in total system weight (not applicable if you are looking at a 35mm sensor size)
- WYSIWYG. I no longer rely on the histogram.

The usual rules apply though. You need to test drive a camera system to see if the ergonomics will suit you. Does the system have lenses that suit your needs? And some people are driven mad with an electronic viewfinder. I really like it.
David
Title: Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
Post by: luxborealis on April 25, 2017, 08:04:56 pm
I went a step further to a Sony RX10iii from a complete D800E system. DR is less and it's a different experience with the EVF (I'm not quite used to it for close-up work), but it's my go to camera for travel photography, hiking, and any other time I don't want to be weighed down with larger and heavier gear.

Glad to hear the Oly experience has improved. I'd go that route, but the comparably slight gain in IQ is, at least to me, not worth doubling the $ outlay
Title: Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
Post by: Osprey on April 25, 2017, 09:39:00 pm
The size and weight benefits of my Olympus Micro 4/3rds is great, and the quality is quite good for the size.  My old Nikons handled much better as far as buttons and setup, however.  I can fit 3 EM-10s attached to zoom lenses in a bag that fits a Nikon DSLR with one of the equivalent zoom lenses. Very worth it, IMO.
Title: Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
Post by: TonyVentourisPhotography on April 25, 2017, 11:28:43 pm
I am so much more satisfied shooting Olympus.  Lenses are great and tiny, and the bodies allow customization and functionality that no canon ever got close to.  I am making images that were impossible on my canons.  Quality has been better generally.  Nothing to miss. 
Title: Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
Post by: RichDesmond on April 26, 2017, 06:46:02 pm
Been using m4/3 gear in preference to a Canon APS-C setup (that I still have) for about 5 years now. Zero regrets, and over that time the only use I've had for the Canon was when I needed a long telephoto, the 70-300 worked better (mainly the stabilization) than the m4/3 gear did. With the improved IBIS on the G85 combined with Dual IS2 on the new 100-300, the Canon stuff may get retired permanently.

No reason to go back, nothing I commonly shoot is better served by a mirror-flapper. :)
Title: Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
Post by: David S on April 26, 2017, 06:53:11 pm
Went from Nikon film to Canon digital and then to Panasonic mirrorless and now to Fuji. Just works better for me.

Dave S

Title: Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
Post by: graeme on April 26, 2017, 08:29:53 pm
http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2017/04/recently-top-has-had-some-comments-about-the-weatherproof-qualities-of-olympus-pro-gear-i-can-tell-you-that-its-hard-to-exa.html
Title: Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
Post by: Rand47 on April 27, 2017, 03:32:58 pm
Moved from 5DII to XT-1 and now XT-2.
- no more calibrating lenses for focussing errors
- no longer having to think of losing detail due to mirror slap (moving the mirror up on a DSLR is not always an option)
- I can focus using the electronic viewfinder with 10 stops of ND filter on the front of the lens
- big difference in total system weight (not applicable if you are looking at a 35mm sensor size)
- WYSIWYG. I no longer rely on the histogram.

The usual rules apply though. You need to test drive a camera system to see if the ergonomics will suit you. Does the system have lenses that suit your needs? And some people are driven mad with an electronic viewfinder. I really like it.
David

+1  Echoes my experience pretty much exactly, except that I was shooting Sony FF A-mount bodies prior to moving to Fuji X system.  First time I realized that I was focusing "through" my Lee BigStopper, I freaked out.   ;D
Fuji glass is as good as any I've ever used, and better than most.

I was one of those "you'll take my OVF out of my cold, dead, hands" guys... Now I look through an OVF and my first thought is, "Man this camera has a low IQ.  It doesn't tell me/show me much!"  How times change!

I love the "direct control" of most major parameters of Fuji X.  Rumor has it that Fuji is working on a very high-end X-T type body  . . . will be interesting to see what comes next.

Rand
Title: Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
Post by: rlearner on May 07, 2017, 07:27:33 am
I went from Nikon to Fuji, and in most situations and very happy with the switch.  Check out my article of a few days ago on this site for more detail:

My Fuji Journey (https://luminous-landscape.com/my-fuji-journey/)
Title: Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
Post by: JoachimStrobel on May 19, 2017, 02:12:59 am
I went straight from analog to the A7. The EVF is a love and hate relationship. Playing Piano, one knows that the instrument one plays influences the way one does play - the feedback of the key response, the vibrations.
Now, with an EVF I see a JPEG world. Not the real colors and not the colors I might get after processing.
I also wonder, if an EVF would ever reveal the difference between a 100 and a 1000 USD lens - how could it with such a resolution? Makes these super expensive Sony lenses a bit rediculus.
Any feedback that a great lense gives to a photographer is gone.  I am not in the league to be really concerned. But I assume that an EVF is Ok for me as I have practiced photography enough by now, but am concerned that learning with such an EVF would not have worked out for me.

And I need to say: Nothing beats the feel of an F1 and moving an Fd aperture ring. Should there ever be a kind of digital film capsule for analog cameras, then I will happily sell my Sony.
Title: Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
Post by: Farmer on May 19, 2017, 07:32:06 am
The Sony EVF (as an example) has over 2,000 DPI resolution - you're not processing that level of detail with a human eye, just as you're not with an OVF. 

The colours you got with on OVF weren't the colours you were going to capture or get post processing, or on film.  Both on OVF and EVF can reveal differences in lens, but not to the extent that the final image will (which is no different to how it was with OVF).  A high quality lens for a 42mp sensor, for example, is still going be a benefit regardless of what you can see in the VF (be it O or E).

Using my GM lenses on my A7Rii is markedly different and better than my older, cheaper, lower performance lenses.  It's different with an EVF, but it's still there.
Title: Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
Post by: Robert Roaldi on May 19, 2017, 07:42:26 am
I just dabble, really, so take this with a grain of salt. Went from Pentax/Canon film cameras to a Sony R1 and from there to m4/3s, mostly Olympus. The slow lag in the Sony was not good for any non-stationary subjects, but improvements in that aspect were only ever a matter of electronic design. I mean, camcorders had been used to capture sports for years, so there was never any reason to think that EVFs could not handle fast-moving subject matter. Some systems were ok, Olympus E-3, but the Nikon 1 system showed how mainstream it had become.

As for the ability to "see" accurately through the viewfinder, I have never understood this. The only purpose for me of a viewfinder is to show composition and focus. If that could not be done with colour LCDs/EVFs then a B&W one would do, as far as I am concerned. I don't understand why people think it's important that the viewfinder show accurate colour, can't you just look at the scene itself for that. The only image that matters is the one that reaches the sensor, not the one in the viewfinder. I think that most of those complaints were just discomfort with change. But you'd think that doing away with prism/mirror alignment problems would have meant lower prices than it has. My gut tells me that modern cameras are easier to put together.
Title: Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
Post by: TonyVentourisPhotography on May 19, 2017, 08:31:59 am
I love large OVFs...it is a very alluring connection with the world you see through the lens.  A Hasselblad 500 is a good example of this.  I honestly love looking through them...but I always wished the picture I made actually looked like the viewfinder.  It never does.  The view is like the best HDR image possible, and even film never delivered on that.  I loved Leica's too...but same the reality of the rangefinder was just not the final outcome. 

Once EVFs got good it was really fascinating.  Time and time again shooting with the E-M1mkII, and the E-M1, when set up for minimal lag and virtually no blackout I often get a view of the world that literally matches my eye.  It's impressive to see the image as close to the final as possible, that still looks the way my eye sees.  In very low light it's obviously different, as is in extreme bright conditions...but in average scenes the EVF shows me what I am seeing and what i'm expecting.  This has actually allowed me to shoot better and ensure I am creating exactly what I intended.  It also increases confidence knowing I got the shot I wanted without needing to review.

In terms of color in the viewfinder...I couldn't care less in most situations, and often turn the viewfinder to black and white.  Color will be set by me in post production based on the feel that I want.  That to me is part of the creative process.  I just want fluid lag free connection and the ability to keep up when shooting.
Title: Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
Post by: Guillermo Luijk on May 19, 2017, 10:24:46 am
There are two kinds of people taking photographs: those who started taking photographs with a camera, and those who did it with a mobile phone. Among the first some prefer the OVF and some the EVF. In the second group all will prefer the EVF.

Regards
Title: Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
Post by: rdonson on May 19, 2017, 01:19:26 pm
And I need to say: Nothing beats the feel of an F1 and moving an Fd aperture ring. Should there ever be a kind of digital film capsule for analog cameras, then I will happily sell my Sony.

I put a LOT of film through my Canon F1.  When I first used a Fuji X-T1 with its analog controls that were easily accessible I fell in love.  I've added a Fuji X-T2 and stopped using my Canon DSLRs. 

There are many reasons why the Fuji-X-T2 appeals to me but a couple really standout for me.  I like low light work and being able to brighten the EVF to suit my needs blows the OVFs I used into the weeds. 

Another thing that really suits me from time to time is the ability to actually see in B&W with the Fuji.  I enjoy setting up one of the B&W film emulations tailored to just the way I like it and then shooting RAW+JPEG.  Seeing in B&W simplifies the ability to see shape, form, lines, tones, etc. for me.  I really enjoy the ACROS emulations. 
Title: Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
Post by: JoachimStrobel on May 20, 2017, 03:14:48 am
More then 90% of the time I was disappointed that my photo did not turn out as I had seen it in my OVF (the ratio was better for slides than for prints). So an EVF is a fine thing for sure. It may be similar to the MP3-CD-DvdAudio comparisons, where MP3s sound great at first, but after hours of listening they seem to cause more fatigue than a CD for some people.
I ask myself, if I do have the same enthusiasm for a composition with an EVF compared to an OVF. I notice that I work more mechanically and less enthusiastically with an EVF. That might be a good thing as it rationalises composing and therefore creates repeatable success where shooting-by-enthusiasm can lead to total failure.
Ron, thanks for the hint on the Fuji. Do they not have the split OVF/EVF system too? I will have a look.
Title: Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
Post by: rdonson on May 20, 2017, 12:02:58 pm
Joachim,

The Fuji X-Pro2 is a hybrid EVF/OVF rangefinder with interchangeable lenses.  The Fuji X100F is a hybrid EVF/OVF rangefinder with a fixed lens.
Title: Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
Post by: TonyVentourisPhotography on May 21, 2017, 09:09:01 am
Joachim,

The Fuji X-Pro2 is a hybrid EVF/OVF rangefinder with interchangeable lenses.  The Fuji X100F is a hybrid EVF/OVF rangefinder with a fixed lens.

Its not technically a rangefinder...focus is still contrast based...but the ovf pretends and even shows parallax adjustment in framing.  The "distance" measurements in the manual focus mode have always been a been a nice visual, but rarely good enough to use for real.

The OVF's are nice...but when you have both you find the electronic starts making a lot more sense in many situations.  I started out using the X100 almost completely as an OVF.  Now I rarely if ever use the OVF.  With the XPro it is the same...OVF is nice until the telephoto lenses get used.  Same reason real rangefinders were rarely useful past 90mm.  Even with a magnifier 135mm was difficult. 

Regardless, the OVF/EVF hybrid that fuji does is a slick way to have both.  Now if we could find a way to do that with a through the lens view and keep the size down, that would be amazing. (doubtfully possible...)
Title: Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
Post by: David S on May 21, 2017, 10:24:22 am
Fuji OVF for shorter primes and EVF for all the rest.

The added benefit is the information available on both EVF and OVF. Surprising something similar is not available (as far as I know) on DSLRs.

Dave S
Title: Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
Post by: JoachimStrobel on May 21, 2017, 03:29:13 pm
One could think of an half transparent mirror. The display could then be a hybrid of a prism and an EVF. As an add on, one could think of a electronic controlled mirror, that becomes fully transparent when needed for low light. This could be packaged as slim as in an A7 to accommodate all lenses...
Title: Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
Post by: luxborealis on May 22, 2017, 09:22:53 am
Interesting discussion on EVF vs OVF. I'm still on the fence using both D800E and RX10iii (which has a fairly up-to-date Sony EVF, but perhaps not quite as good as their FF mirrorless).

With the EVF, I find it very difficult to see the more subtle changes from rotating a polarizing filter, for example reducing glare from foliage. Often, I need to remove the POL and rotate it in front of my eye then re-install it. Alternatively, I use the arrow mark lined up to the sun, which will provide 100% polarization, but there are times when I want less, and that's where the EVF fails. Furthermore, with the constantly bright EVF, it's easy to forget I have a POL on the front.

Also with the EVF, I often miss subtle details, especially when working close-up; details I would not have missed with the clarity of an OVF.

On the "bright" side, as someone mentioned previously, I can compose and focus with the EVF when using a strong ND filter.
Title: Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
Post by: Jim Pascoe on May 22, 2017, 09:53:44 am
Have we had a response from the OP yet?  This thread has become quite wide-ranging considering they were asking about moving from one full-frame system to another.

Moving from a Canon 5DS to an Olympus EM-1 for instance would be a very different proposition I would think.  I have both and they can not be compared (well they can obviously) for file quality and user experience.  The Canon is way ahead in image quality and far simpler to use when under pressure.  For a location portrait shoot I will often use the Canon with an 85mm 1.8 prime - so easy and quite light enough for an hours work.

But, the Olympus is also a great little camera.  Image quality is good enough most of the time, it is very light (as are the prime lenses), the EVF is very good, the fold-out screen makes shooting from a low angle easy, it is quiet and much more unobtrusive than the Canon.  There are many differences and I've only mentioned a few.  The truth is that any of these newer cameras - and even some of the older ones, can be adapted to almost any sort of shooting.  It just depends on your priorities.

If you could only have one camera then you would need to do some careful thinking.  But my guess is that many here have more than one system.  If you could have three cars - would you not have a variety for different things.  A 4-wheel drive for adventure holidays, a small hybrid for popping out to the store, a Porsche for fun days out on the open road?  Cameras are no different, it's just that many internet forums seem to spend a lot of time trying to determine which is best - when it's "horses for courses".
Title: Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
Post by: Guillermo Luijk on May 22, 2017, 02:22:27 pm
Also with the EVF, I often miss subtle details, especially when working close-up; details I would not have missed with the clarity of an OVF.

On the "bright" side, as someone mentioned previously, I can compose and focus with the EVF when using a strong ND filter.

You can also zoom the preview image and distinguish details totally out of reach for a OVF.

Regards
Title: Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
Post by: TonyVentourisPhotography on May 22, 2017, 05:03:28 pm
You need to have exposure locked when rotating to see the effect otherwise exposure changes make the screen lighten or darken sometimes.  This was always a nightmare on Fuji.  Olympus has been. Easier to work with polarizers in this regard.

If you actually mean the subtle details, as mentioned zooming is the way to go.  I can manually focus an evf way better than an ovf when it comes to specific details.

Interesting discussion on EVF vs OVF. I'm still on the fence using both D800E and RX10iii (which has a fairly up-to-date Sony EVF, but perhaps not quite as good as their FF mirrorless).

With the EVF, I find it very difficult to see the more subtle changes from rotating a polarizing filter, for example reducing glare from foliage. Often, I need to remove the POL and rotate it in front of my eye then re-install it. Alternatively, I use the arrow mark lined up to the sun, which will provide 100% polarization, but there are times when I want less, and that's where the EVF fails. Furthermore, with the constantly bright EVF, it's easy to forget I have a POL on the front.

Also with the EVF, I often miss subtle details, especially when working close-up; details I would not have missed with the clarity of an OVF.

On the "bright" side, as someone mentioned previously, I can compose and focus with the EVF when using a strong ND filter.
Title: Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
Post by: luxborealis on May 22, 2017, 06:12:50 pm
You can also zoom the preview image and distinguish details totally out of reach for a OVF.
If you actually mean the subtle details, as mentioned zooming is the way to go.  I can manually focus an evf way better than an ovf when it comes to specific details.

Yes, zooming is the way to go for some details. The details I'm referring to, though, are those that are slightly out of focus that I can't tell are out of focus through an EVF. As well, there have been times when I completely miss an out-of-focus branch or blade of grass that I know I would have seen through an OVF. EVFs are different; it's just a matter of me getting used to their idiosyncrasies after using OVFs for decades.
Title: Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
Post by: owinthomas on May 22, 2017, 07:39:11 pm
One happy bunny here.

I went the Fujifilm route (X-Pro1, X-T1 and a bunch of lenses. I've recently traded the X-Pro1 for X-Pro2) from Canon.

I've never regretted the move and my back and shoulders thank me every time I go out shooting.
Title: Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
Post by: Del on May 22, 2017, 10:51:12 pm
It took me a long time to pull the trigger, much longer than I even imagined in the face of most of my friends leading the way.  I went from Canon and a lot of glass to Fuji Xpro-2 and three lenses to date (just into it about 6 weeks at this point).  I feel liberated.  I still have my Canon's and some glass for birding, etc.

I also print a lot (shows my age apparently), but I just love it. I don't really regret not jumping on the bandwagon, but am glad I now have.  But hey, I still buy Vinyl to play on my 1977 Vintage Stereo Equipment-and I don't see that changing-ever.
Title: Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
Post by: bernie west on May 24, 2017, 02:13:35 am
I've just sold all my nikon full frame gear and moved to fujifilm x.  I've used a X100 a couple of years ago, but had pretty much forgotten the feeling.  The first thing that I really miss is looking through a big TTL viewfinder.  It's hard to beat that clarity and feeling.  While the EVF's are great, it's just not the same.  I guess it's just a matter of getting used to them.
Title: Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
Post by: Petrus on May 24, 2017, 05:11:26 am
I have a full complement of pro Nikons and lenses provided by the publishing company I work for, but during the last few years I have started to use my own set of Fujis more and more, especially on reportage type assignments. First X-Pro1, then X-T1 and now 2 X-T2 bodies. They are just so much lighter and smaller and lack nothing in image quality (well, 800e still has a slight edge). They are also much quieter, an extra bonus sometimes.

After retirement (just 5 weeks left...) I am not going to take the DSLRs with me but plan to use just the Fujis, and also my wife's Sony RX10 III for birding. Technology has come a long way, not only during my whole 40 year career, but only during the past few years. Faster, lighter, optically better cameras with great sensors. Cheap.

Sometimes OVF is better,  though, but not anymore often enough to warrant the size, weight and cost.
Title: Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
Post by: David S on May 24, 2017, 07:28:32 am
As others have said, it is to some extent a matter of personal choice and something I will call "fit." My last film camera was a Nikon 90 but my first digital camera was an early Konica and initially I had issues but with better EVF they no longer bother me. I am happy with the Fuji line but there it isn't just the EVF or OVF but how the camera feels in my hands and how I and the camera work together. Wouldn't work for others but sure works for me.

Dave S
Title: Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
Post by: Hywel on May 25, 2017, 07:06:56 am
Up until the last few days I would have said yes, I am happy with my mirrorless system.

I just did an intensive three-day multi-model vintage fashion shoot. I had eight shooting areas set up, and was flitting between them.

This client needs web images, and I know they can handle Canon files and have liked Canon colours before now. So as on previous shoots with them, my main workhorse camera was a Canon 7D (mark one) with 24-70 mm f/2.8 L (mark one). A bit primitive by modern standards, I thought. For my own website I usually shoot either Hasselblad H3D31ii or latterly Sony A7Rii. The Hassy is out of the question for this client (I'm not teaching them the ins and outs of Phocus workflow, and if Moire happens, it can be intolerable for this client's clothes).

But because I needed a backup system, I brought along the Sony and shot with it for some sets.

And oh my god it was a reminder how far Sony have to go to sort out ergonomics and user interface.

It was a bit of a revelation how much faster and more confidently I could work with the Canon - a camera which never actually was my workhorse (I bought it for video at the start of the dSLR revolution, to replace a 5D Mark I which had been a workhorse but which has different control layout). The Sony has been my go-to camera for well over a year now, with me racking up maybe 100,000+ shots on it. You'd have figured that the camera I use daily would seem more familiar than the old one I'd not shot with in almost a year, wouldn't you? But it didn't.

Now the results of the Sony are duly impressive on the technical front, no doubt. I likely won't be printing any of the 7D shots to 24" x 36" for gallery display.

But bloody hell, it was a lot easier and more productive to shoot with than the cussed Sony, whose user interface still pretty much guarantees menu hunting and many more missed shots. The Sony has a mode for everything, but to get the shot you need to change to the right mode. The model starts to move or do some walking shots? You'd better switch to AFC and the right sort of AF settings and get your zones sorted. If you press and hope, it'll mess up. The Canon has lots of modes too, but my experience was that in use, if I forgot to change over when the model stared to move, the camera would do a pretty workmanlike job of getting it right regardless.

The Sony felt like a fussy highly-strung old maid by comparison. Capable of excellent results. But if you don't get the settings just so, it'll sulk and may not shoot a single usable frame until you change modes. Oh, and you won't get through a day's shoot on a single battery like you will with the Canon either. 

So the Sony remains a technical tour-de-force, with great lenses, a lot lighter than the Canon (essential for mountain photography) and very many fantastic features.

I'd dearly love someone to take the same A7Rii innards into a completely redesigned camera. Like completely rethought and re-engineered layout and physical design and everything.

The shoot has made me rediscover the virtues of a solid dSLR with a decent zoom lens (the 35-135 equivalence of a 24-70 on APS-C is just perfect for people/fashion photography). I'm keeping my Canon kit, and I will look at a 7D Mark II when I finally burn out the shutter on the 7D.

Of course, mirrorless systems are just getting going whereas the dSLR has 15-ish years of development, and borrow a lot of tech from the film era. I think there's more strengths and weaknesses in the mirrorless systems: I much prefer the UI of the GH4 to that of the Sony, but the GH4 can't compete with 42 megapixels full frame and dynamic range of the Sony, for example. dSLR's are Swiss Army Knives- do anything, but not quite as well as an actual screwdriver or saw. Mirrorless systems are more like a single-purpose tool. It'll cut you angles at exactly 90 degrees or exactly 45 degrees, but it won't let you bodge through when you want 63 and a half degrees.

It confirmed my prejudice that if I had to pick just ONE camera system to shoot everything with, I'd still go for a Canon dSLR, regardless of how it all looks on paper.

Cheers, Hywel




 
Title: Re: Previous DSLR users, are you happy with your mirrorless system?
Post by: rdonson on May 25, 2017, 09:40:14 am
Hywel, the recently released A9 may point the way to improved ergonomics for the Sony future offerings.  Sony faithful are optimistic with what they see in the A9.