Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: Stephen Scharf on February 16, 2017, 01:33:52 am
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Just reading Patrick LaRoque's blog today and he states that the Fuji GFX will have Capture One support.
This is also substantiated by a thread in GetDPI forums:
GFX and Capture One support (http://www.getdpi.com/forum/medium-format-systems-and-digital-backs/60962-fuji-gfx-capture-one.html)
My guess is Fuji and/or Sony ponied up some bucks to make it happen, and presumably, if true, Phase One wisely decided not to turn down the revenue they could obtain from selling Capture One licenses for what could possibly be tens of thousands of GFX customers.
If true, excellent news. Capture One 10 is REALLY good. Now, if they could add support for Compressed X-Pro2 and X-T2 RAF files, we'd really be sitting pretty.
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Is Fuji about to acquire P1? ;)
Cheers,
Bernard
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Is Fuji about to aquire P1? ;)
Cheers,
Bernard
Funny you should ask, Bernard, that thought has crossed my mind as well. I would wager that money from Fuji was involved, just as it was for Sony when they obtained Phase One support.
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Funny you should ask, Bernard, that thought has crossed my mind as well. I would wager that money from Fuji was involved, just as it was for Sony when they obtained Phase One support.
It would be interesting to know what's going on.
Judging from me, I have started to use LR-CC 2015.8 for my H6D-100c and I am impressed by the progress since I last tried. I may decide to stop renewing my C1 Pro licenses for my DSLRs.
I guess that many Fuji GFX users probably already use C1 Pro for their DSLR and odds are that they would probably go for LR as well if the GFX were not supported by C1 Pro.
So the impact for P1 would be double:
- non sale of P1 backs
- loss of C1 Pro revenue
I hope they realize the same will happen with X1D users.
Cheers,
Bernard
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It would be interesting to know what's going on.
Judging from me, I have started to use LR-CC 2015.8 for my H6D-100c and I am impressed by the progress since I last tried. I may decide to stop renewing my C1 Pro licenses for my DSLRs.
I guess that many Fuji GFX users probably already use C1 Pro for their DSLR and odds are that they would probably go for LR as well if the GFX were not supported by C1 Pro.
So the impact for P1 would be double:
- non sale of P1 backs
- loss of C1 Pro revenue
I hope they realize the same will happen with X1D users.
Cheers,
Bernard
I use a mix of both as I use Fuji X-cams, X-T1, X100T, and X-T2 (which is a helluva camera). For the majority of my work, I use LR but Iridient Developer as a LR plug-in for Fuji RAF demosaicing as I find it still to be superior to LR/ACR for proper sharpening as well as shadow/highlight recovery. For portfolio quality or where I want maximal image quality, I think Capture One 10 is really quite good.
I have to admit I have a bit of a love-hate relationship with Capture One; the basic app is really good, but Phase One has some annoying corporate behaviors that resemble passive-aggressiveness about how they constantly require re-registration for software updates (even for very minor X.0.1 upgrades), how they provide tech support, support for various cameras, the whole non-support for non-Phase One MF thang not withstanding. Until this announcement of support for the GFX, they seemed happy to cut their nose off to spite their face regarding turning down significant licensing revenue to force people to buy Phase One backs if they wanted C1 MF support. They still do not support compressed X-Pro2 and X-T2 files when Iridient, Luminar and LR can, and there are very limited C1-produced Fuji lens profiles as well. I am sure they do this with other camera makes, as well. I've also had a number of issues with earlier versions corrupting catalogs and losing access to my images and dealing with Capture One tech support in Denmark for this was completely exasperating and a major PITA.
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With C1P support, now I just need a Phase/Mamiya mount adapter with electronic aperture control for the GFX and the GFX would become the backup to my XF system. I hate not having a MF backup but rather having to use a 35mm camera with a separate lens set as a backup.
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I am keeping my fingers crossed that this comes to pass, GFX and C1 what a marriage made in heaven.
A Schneider LS P1 lens to Fuji GF mount would be nice too. :) :)
And a F mount, can't forget that.
Paul Caldwell
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This would be good news. I like my a7rII, but I think I might be swayed to the GFX as my "smaller" camera for challenging hikes and backup system. It seems a safe assumption that 75 or even 100mp is in the future, especially if these two new cameras impact MF sales volume like it appears they will, so it should get better as we go along. Hopefully a 75mp+ back illuminated sensor is in the works at Sony.
Wonder if Fuji is considering doing what Sony did with C1 and make include it as "their" raw processor. Not sure what software Fuji includes with their cameras for this.
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Wonder if Fuji is considering doing what Sony did with C1 and make include it as "their" raw processor. Not sure what software Fuji includes with their cameras for this.
I believe they were shipping with a version of Silkypix due to X-Trans sensors oddities.
Cheers,
Bernard
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Yes, a very very stripped down version of Silkypix is what Fuji ships with the camera. The interface is similar to a program written to Windows 3.1, it's just that bad.
Fuji would be moving greatly in a forward direction if they found a way to do what Sony did and have the C1 version made for them. C1 currently has one of the best raw conversions for the X-trans files and since the GFX is NOT X-trans (thankfully) you could expect a very good conversion from P1 if they so choose.
What is interesting is the harsh fall out on this subject on other forums. If P1 chooses to keep their head in the sand, that is their call, I am sure others like Iridient, ON-1, LR/ACR, and DxO will all eventually support the format. It's also very possible that a exif hack might allow C1 to support the files anyway since everything is based on the same sensor. Fuji claims that their version of the sensor has some differences however.
There are several professional photographers now claiming that that C1 will support the GFX, which means some discussions have taken place for sure, or I can't see them making such a claim. I realize this would be a first for P1 however.
Paul Caldwell
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Yes, things got pretty heated over at getDPI. From what I've gathered ...
several sources/photographers are reporting GFX support by C1. However, from I can tell, all of them are based on this video (https://www.facebook.com/fujifilmme/videos/1435676683142941/), the applicable part occurs approximately 47 minutes in, where "someone" supposedly from Fuji stated it would. The main presenter of the video states he is sure it will support it because it supports his other Fuji files, but I'm guessing he is unaware of Phase One's policy to not support other medium format cameras with C1.
As to the person who claims it will support it, I don't think anyone knows who he is, it is assumed he is from Fuji because the presenter poses the question to him. But he could also be "uninformed", assuming C1 will support it because it's a Fuji camera and it supports all of the other Fuji cameras but he may very well also not be aware of Phase's policy to not support other MF systems.
So after reading all of this, watching the video, etc. personally I'm pretty skeptical at this point.
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Yes, things got pretty heated over at getDPI. From what I've gathered ...
several sources/photographers are reporting GFX support by C1. However, from I can tell, all of them are based on this video (https://www.facebook.com/fujifilmme/videos/1435676683142941/), the applicable part occurs approximately 47 minutes in, where "someone" supposedly from Fuji stated it would. The main presenter of the video states he is sure it will support it because it supports his other Fuji files, but I'm guessing he is unaware of Phase One's policy to not support other medium format cameras with C1.
As to the person who claims it will support it, I don't think anyone knows who he is, it is assumed he is from Fuji because the presenter poses the question to him. But he could also be "uninformed", assuming C1 will support it because it's a Fuji camera and it supports all of the other Fuji cameras but he may very well also not be aware of Phase's policy to not support other MF systems.
So after reading all of this, watching the video, etc. personally I'm pretty skeptical at this point.
The person at Gulf Photo Plus Dubai in Dubai who told Zach Arias that the GFX would have Capture One support in response to gerald.d's question was Francois Koumyoujian, Fujifilm Product Manager, Electronic Imaging Products, Fujifilm Middle East. Given that this information came directly from a Fujifilm GFX product manager, does lend it at least some level of veracity, I would think. I certainly hope it proves to be true, and would not be too surprised if it was. I've written to Fujifilm Middle East's FB page, where Mr. Koumyoujian works, to see if we can get a confirmation.
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I posted this one getDPI as well...
I just left a meeting with a Fujifilm UK representative where I had the chance to have a play with the GFX, and the last question I asked him was regarding Capture One.
Unfortunately, he said it is not true that Capture One will support the GFX RAW files, and the Fuji rep in Dubai should not have said this.
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Capture One sells Phase One cameras, I think it's an very important factor in that people choose Phase One over the other alternatives.
In other words, supporting GFX or other medium format competitors would be a mistake. It's expensive to develop software as huge and complicated as C1, and you can't really make up for that by only selling to medium format users, you need lots more volume, ie selling to smaller format users, or sell super-expensive cameras that goes with it. Phase One does both.
I think they make more money getting the extra P1 camera sales than the extra software sales they would get for supporting GFX. To me it's just guessing, but to anyone at Phase One which has the numbers it's quite easy to calculate the business case.
That they would actually gain from supporting medium format competitors I think is wishful thinking from us users... maybe if some medium format model really goes up in volume, and I guess the trend is going towards that, but there's no hurry. They could wait and see how the MF market evolves.
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Should the subject have been handled differently, yes. If Fuji is working on a P1 C1 solution that is not been announced, that is the way it should have stayed. The camera is supposed to ship on the 1 of March. I have reservations on that, since currently no one is working yet with RAW files and we are real close to the 1st. It's also irresponsible of other photographers most likely under a NDA to mention "they" know C1 will be supported. It's up to Phase One to make that announcement or P1 and Fuji together.
It's a bit tragic if a marketing rep who has heard rumblings of a possible C1-GFX solution choose to go public. As that could have the adverse effect with P1. For sure, Fuji needs something in the way of software. Their current solution of using a dumbed down (very very dumbed down) version of Silkypix for the X-trans cameras is a joke. That is the worse piece of software I have used in years. Fuji has also been quite content to let Adobe keep using their less than ideal X-trans raw conversion. There has been plenty written on that. And that should have been the first thing that Fuji address years ago. So knowing that C1 has an excellent raw conversion for the X-trans, it's only makes sense that Fuji would attempt to work closer with P1 and C1 on the GFX, especially for the studio shooter when you consider the excellent tethering that C1 offers.
The camera is supposed to ship early March, odds are if C1 support is coming, we will all know by then. If C1 holds off, Oh Well, there will always be other software out there to use.
Paul Caldwell
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I guess I don't follow your logic completely or I'm not understanding your statement. It would seem to me the question is does Phase One sell more cameras because people want to use C1. My decision to buy a Phase camera had nothing to do with the software.
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I guess I don't follow your logic completely or I'm not understanding your statement. It would seem to me the question is does Phase One sell more cameras because people want to use C1. My decision to buy a Phase camera had nothing to do with the software.
There are a lot of medium format photographers who feel very passionately about C1, and they absolutely would not buy a medium format system that wasn't supported by C1.
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A Schneider LS P1 lens to Fuji GF mount would be nice too. :) :)
And a F mount, can't forget that.
Paul Caldwell
Done - https://fotodioxpro.com/collections/lens-mount-adapters/gfx EF/Contax/M645/F/OM all to GFX
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Capture One sells Phase One cameras, I think it's an very important factor in that people choose Phase One over the other alternatives.
In other words, supporting GFX or other medium format competitors would be a mistake. It's expensive to develop software as huge and complicated as C1, and you can't really make up for that by only selling to medium format users, you need lots more volume, ie selling to smaller format users, or sell super-expensive cameras that goes with it. Phase One does both.
I think they make more money getting the extra P1 camera sales than the extra software sales they would get for supporting GFX. To me it's just guessing, but to anyone at Phase One which has the numbers it's quite easy to calculate the business case.
That they would actually gain from supporting medium format competitors I think is wishful thinking from us users... maybe if some medium format model really goes up in volume, and I guess the trend is going towards that, but there's no hurry. They could wait and see how the MF market evolves.
You're absolutely correct in everything you wrote.
Steve Hendrix/CI
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Done - https://fotodioxpro.com/collections/lens-mount-adapters/gfx EF/Contax/M645/F/OM all to GFX
Hello,
With M645 support does not mean Schneider LS support! LS needs the contacts, the electronic,...
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I was at the Fuji Roadshow in Vienna yesterday. One of the Fuji representatives said that, yes, Capture One would support RAW-files from the GFX. However, tethered shooting will only be possible through some kind of "intermediate software" from Fuji.
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I wrote to Fujilfiln Middle East (where Francois Koumyoujian, the Fujifilm Product Manager who answered Gerald Donovan's question about Capture One at GPP, works at Fujifilm Middle East), for a confirmation that Capture One would support GFX RAF files, and they wrote back and said, "Yes, we can confirm it."
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I wrote to Fujilfiln Middle East (where Francois Koumyoujian, the Fujifilm Product Manager who answered Gerald Donovan's question about Capture One at GPP, works at Fujifilm Middle East), for a confirmation that Capture One would support GFX RAF files, and they wrote back and said, "Yes, we can confirm it."
Hi Stephen,
Thanks for that. Now, if Phase One confirms it then I'll really believe it ...
It would probably also mean that there's more going on, behind the scenes.
Cheers,
Bart
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Then he needs to have Fuji to make a public announcement on this subject, period. And it needs to be done sooner than later, as a lot of damage has been done over the past few days. I doubt it will get done, not anytime soon. Fuji has handled this whole issue in a less than professional way which I have found a bit surprising based on their past product rollouts.
One needs to remember, that if the camera does ship on 03/01/17, then raw support needs to be enabled, which currently it has not. None of the beta tester reports I have seen including the one from Dubai, were shooting raw. And 03/01 is less than 2 weeks away, and if Fuji has not turned on raw support yet, I doubt they can get much testing done in the time frame, which also leads me to believe the camera will not be shipping until late March if then. If all we are taking about is jegs or tifs from the GFX, then yup C1 supports those right now.
No Dot release of LR handles the raw either, so Fuji might want to get on the stick pretty quickly.
Paul Caldwell
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Then he needs to have Fuji to make a public announcement on this subject, period. And it needs to be done sooner than later, as a lot of damage has been done over the past few days. I doubt it will get done, not anytime soon. Fuji has handled this whole issue in a less than professional way which I have found a bit surprising based on their past product rollouts.
One needs to remember, that if the camera does ship on 03/01/17, then raw support needs to be enabled, which currently it has not. None of the beta teste reports I have seen including the one from Dubai, were shooting raw. And 03/01 is less than 2 weeks away, and if Fuji has not turned on raw support yet, I doubt they can get much testing done in the time frame, which also leads me to believe the camera will not be shipping until late March if then. If all we are taking about is jegs or tifs from the GFX, then yup C1 supports those right now.
No Dot release of LR handles the raw either, so Fuji might want to get on the stick pretty quickly.
Paul Caldwell
The reason that RAW support is not "enabled" yet is because cameras are not available for sale. When has any camera ever had RAW support before it's actually been released for sale? With all due respect, there is virtually no data to support that RAW support is not enabled in actuality, just that photographers using pre-production prototypes are not allowed to export RAW files, which is not the same thing. Also, no one knows how much work has been done, or can by done, to "turn on" RAW support in a given unit time because none of us work there and have any data to know exactly their software development "cadence" is (they likely use a form of "agile" software/firmware development comprised of "scrums" and "sprints".)
Lastly, what "damage" has actually been done? Has any party legally been made "less that whole" by the discussion here?
My guess is that the GFX will have RAW support at launch through their version of SilkyPix. ACR/LR and hopefully, C1 Pro support will follow in due course.
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Hi Stephen,
Thanks for that. Now, if Phase One confirms it then I'll really believe it ...
It would probably also mean that there's more going on, behind the scenes.
Cheers,
Bart
Hi Bart,
Yes, this is my thought as well. Probably a lot more...
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Let's look at this way. In the US the Oakland Raiders were going to move to Las Vegas until someone from the team made some discussions that upset the overall decision.
P1 may be taking to Fuji on this issue. But if P1 allows this support it will be the first time it's ever been done. By leaking this information out they way it's been done it's quite possible P1 may just drop it.
For sure the current P1 dealer network seems to believe it will not happen and I am sure they are also giving feedback to P1.
It should have been kept quiet until both sides were ready.
Paul Caldwell
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Btw. Most cameras I am aware of are testing raw files before release including Fuji. Nikon Canon Phase One all have tested raw before release. P1 issues beta versions of C1 to work with the files. Canon and Nikon both have had their own software to use in the past. Hasselblad had LR support for raw months before the X1D shipped.
Testing raw before release to me is very important.
Paul Caldwell
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There are already raw converters available that will handle GFX raws in both compressed and uncompressed form - current versions of AccuRaw and PhotoRaw on the Mac and iOS respectively for one. Lightroom and Photoshop will certainly follow in their next release. Capture One is a different issue for the obvious reasons. Bear in mind, when I last checked, C1 still doesn't support X-Trans compressed raws. So Fuji is not high on the C1 priority list.
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I hope and believe that C1 and LR CC 2017 will support the GFX when it comes out or in the first two weeks of it.
Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk
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There are already raw converters available that will handle GFX raws in both compressed and uncompressed form - current versions of AccuRaw and PhotoRaw on the Mac and iOS respectively for one. Lightroom and Photoshop will certainly follow in their next release. Capture One is a different issue for the obvious reasons. Bear in mind, when I last checked, C1 still doesn't support X-Trans compressed raws. So Fuji is not high on the C1 priority list.
I do not compress my XT2 RAWS and C1 supports those. IMHO C1 is not a software most use for compressed images.
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I do not compress my XT2 RAWS and C1 supports those.
You don't, others do. If a program claims to support a camera's raw format, it's valid to complain when it fails to do so.
This was P1 support's answer (case #232257). The link is my interpretation of their words.
Me: "Do you have any plans to support the compressed RAFs produced by the Fuji XT2?"
Support: "Yes, but I cannot say when unfortunately. (http://www.kafka-online.info/before-the-law.html)"