Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Capture One Q&A => Topic started by: Alexander Svet on February 15, 2017, 11:28:19 am
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Hello, everyone!
Recently, I’ve got a chance to test a full Tangent Element Kit with Capture One Pro 10.
I've recorded a short video review - https://youtu.be/6Pu0q_HE3XU
And here is the full review - http://captureoneblog.com/tangent-element-with-capture-one-pro-10-review/
If you have any questions regarding Tangent and Capture One, feel free to ask here :)
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Hello, everyone!
Recently, I’ve got a chance to test a full Tangent Element Kit with Capture One Pro 10.
I've recorded a short video review - https://youtu.be/6Pu0q_HE3XU
And here is the full review - http://captureoneblog.com/tangent-element-with-capture-one-pro-10-review/
If you have any questions regarding Tangent and Capture One, feel free to ask here :)
Hi Alexander,
It's a really nice review, but I think that one important aspect is missing. Using Tangent devices has a huge advantage over any traditional input device (keyboard/mouse/graphic tablet), it lets the user change multiple parameters synchronously, for example adjusting exposure and contrast at the same time by using two knobs. I think it can speed up the image editing by some margin.
Cheers,
Tamas
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Hi Alexander,
It's a really nice review, but I think that one important aspect is missing. Using Tangent devices has a huge advantage over any traditional input device (keyboard/mouse/graphic tablet), it lets the user change multiple parameters synchronously, for example adjusting exposure and contrast at the same time by using two knobs. I think it can speed up the image editing by some margin.
Cheers,
Tamas
Hi Tamas,
Thank you! I agree with you, but, unfortunately, I had not much time to test the panels. It requires more experience with panels to work with two knobs simultaneously :)
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Thanks!
After watching your video, I purchased the KB Panel. It comes in Friday. I have a strong feeling I'll be getting the Ripple next (If its supported).
People complain about the price, but think of it this way: You have 12 adjustments. Now those 12 adjustments have an alternate.
Now you have 24. There are three banks. If I'm thinking right, that gives you a total of 72 adjustments with a panel that has fairly small foot print.
I just bought a Palette Gear Pro setup in December. In LR, it was the bomb. In C1, it sucked. Too limited in functionality plus the footprint/function ratio wasn't good. Now its on eBay.
When I get to play with the Tangent, I'll chime in again. I'm optimistic. Lets just see how this plays out.
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Thanks!
After watching your video, I purchased the KB Panel. It comes in Friday. I have a strong feeling I'll be getting the Ripple next (If its supported).
People complain about the price, but think of it this way: You have 12 adjustments. Now those 12 adjustments have an alternate.
Now you have 24. There are three banks. If I'm thinking right, that gives you a total of 72 adjustments with a panel that has fairly small foot print.
I just bought a Palette Gear Pro setup in December. In LR, it was the bomb. In C1, it sucked. Too limited in functionality plus the footprint/function ratio wasn't good. Now its on eBay.
When I get to play with the Tangent, I'll chime in again. I'm optimistic. Lets just see how this plays out.
your maths is correct Jimmy!
In my opinion, if you use Local Adjustments, the Mf panel is a good next choice.
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Baby steps, I'm not a paid pro photog. I get by, here and there.
Since playing with the VS version, I better understand the convenience of buttons. So now i'm looking at the button panel next. Back down the rabbit hole I go....
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Well crap! Got the KB and it is sweet. You are right. It seems as though the MF is a good next step. I'll just see how this plays out.
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Thanks!
After watching your video, I purchased the KB Panel. It comes in Friday. I have a strong feeling I'll be getting the Ripple next (If its supported).
People complain about the price, but think of it this way: You have 12 adjustments. Now those 12 adjustments have an alternate.
Now you have 24. There are three banks. If I'm thinking right, that gives you a total of 72 adjustments with a panel that has fairly small foot print.
I just bought a Palette Gear Pro setup in December. In LR, it was the bomb. In C1, it sucked. Too limited in functionality plus the footprint/function ratio wasn't good. Now its on eBay.
When I get to play with the Tangent, I'll chime in again. I'm optimistic. Lets just see how this plays out.
I saw your gear on eBay. Was interested until the bid went up. I use pallet gear with C1. Just the buttons and knobs. It took hours to program though. Not the best but I got the gear as xmass present from wife in December , so no returns. Have fun with tangent.
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I saw your gear on eBay. Was interested until the bid went up. I use pallet gear with C1. Just the buttons and knobs. It took hours to program though. Not the best but I got the gear as xmass present from wife in December , so no returns. Have fun with tangent.
I really wanted to like the Palette Gear. However I had two crashes due to that setup. The kinda crash that made me have to hold the power button on my tower. Not good.
Like I said in the listing, its the bomb in LR. Plus you can map all kinds of other applications like Photo Mechanic, Mail, and Safari. Just not so much in C1.
One more thing. The mapping is crazy extensive. It goes way beyond keyboard shortcuts.
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The MF panel came in.
I can see the setup (KB and MF) as a time saver.
The biggest difference between it and Palette is the amount of control. It's actually intimidating. It doesn't seem like there is a limit to the modes and layouts. I'm gonna be spending a lot of time trying to plot everything out.
Another thing: In Palette the main module tells you what adjustments you are making while you are making them. However, if you aren't fooling with a knob or button, you have to rely on memory which button does what.
Of course you can go to the menu and see the layout, but this is easier.
In Tangent, the adjustments are constantly on the display. Kinda nice.
When I first bought Palette, I was a bit disappointed at the control vs $$ for C1. So I bought the expanded panel. It was better, but I just wasn't using it.
The Tangent does cost more, and at first glance, a lot more. However after using it, the price difference is irrelevant, apples to oranges. I actually use it.
Adjustments are plentiful and smooth.
I do see a ripple in the future, because color grading sounds like fun:)
I just gotta pay off the KB and MF before I move forward,
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The Tangent stuff looks pretty cool, but a bit too steep for my blood. I'd rather buy lenses! :)
What about the Palette works poorly with C1?
How does the Palette or Tangent work "better" than a Wacom Tablet (with its buttons and single dial)?
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I'd rather buy lenses! :)
I agree with you on that one :)
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The difference between Tangent and Palette is Tangent is actually working as an integral part of C1. Palette is kinda limited in it's interaction with C1. Palette is working on this.
There are some adjustments ,like exposure, that work OK. However, a lot of functions are basically mapped out keyboard shortcuts. I guess this is why I found the buttons to be most useful. The Palette sliders are useless in C1.
In LR, Palette works great. But bear in mind that to get the kind of immediate control, you would need at the minimum, the expert kit, and most likely the Pro kit would serve you better.
I just did some math. This is assuming that Palette fully supports C1.
A Tangent KB+BT will run you $1510.50 from BH Photo. Can be had cheaper on eBay.
The basic Palette runs $199. In order to add enough buttons and knobs to match the Tangent, it would cost you $1028.00. However, Palette has a limited number of modules that can be attached so I doubt it would work anyway.
Even if it worked, the footprint would be enormous. Each Palette module takes about as much space as four Tangent controls.
I believe once everything is mapped out, you would have very little need for the tool bar or browser, which gives you a much bigger picture to work with.
Now as far as the Wacom goes, I found that the brush adjustment is much easier with the Tangent MF. I use the tracker ball for brush size and hardness. The wheel that surrounds the ball, I use for opacity.
You could easily map out four knobs for all the brush adjustments.
I imagine you could map out the buttons on the Wacom and that would work out just as well for those adjustments.
As far as buying lenses goes, I understand.
However, I now look forward to editing the photos.
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Tangent sounds cool. If I can ever get C1 working well for me (I just had a complete OS crash this morning while copying/pasting adjustments), I may have to save up for some Tangent gear.
Does Tangent stuff work with Lr, too? Or is it custom to only C1?
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Its not setup for LR. However it does support other Adobe products aimed towards film. It supports ALOT of motion editing softwares.
I don't fool with movies, but one never knows....
I really hate you are having so many issues. I'm gonna send you a PM about something else to try.
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Sounds like you and I are in same boat with starting out in C1 from LR..
I have palette gear and ordered a trackball to try out. If I didnt have palette gear I would get a midi before tangent because of cost..
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People complain about the price, but think of it this way: You have 12 adjustments. Now those 12 adjustments have an alternate. Now you have 24. There are three banks. If I'm thinking right, that gives you a total of 72 adjustments with a panel that has fairly small foot print.
Actually you can add as many banks as you wish (see attached pic with 99 banks, but you can go even higher). You need to right click at the Knob Bank arrow in the Tangent Mapper and choose one of the options, Add Bank At End is the most obvious choice (see the second attached pic).
Of course, a lot of banks would not make any sense, because you circle the banks, but with Phase One's standard mapping there are 61 sliders that can be mapped provided, which means that 6 banks is enough to map them all.
I mapped my banks according to my custom workspaces.
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I have the Tangent Wave on loan and use it with Capture One. It is less costly than the bigger model and does a great job. I'm kind of getting itno the grove with it now. I mapped a few things into it to fit my workflow.
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It looks great Kevin.
Just to let you know that you can add Knob and Button banks also for the Wave (see pic below). But to toggle between the banks you need to sacrifice a button for each, because the Wave does not have a dedicated B button for next bank as the Elements do.
See my second pic below. I have dedicated the F7 and F4 buttons to toggle between knob and button banks and I have mapped the second knob bank with the BW controls (sliders) ;)
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Perhaps you could include a segment on using Tangent when you do the new Capture One tutorial ?
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How we3ll does it work with C1 11?
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I had the Tangent Element series on loan some time ago and was very impressed by their rugged design, precise adjustments and how well they integrated with Capture One. If you are interested, my review can be found at https://imagealchemist.net/using-tangent-with-capture-one/
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How we3ll does it work with C1 11?
Amazingly well!
I have the Element Kb and Tk that I use alongside the C1 Logic Keyboard and the Wacom Intous. I have all the adjustment sliders mapped to the Kb and I have also mapped the RGB Levels controls to the Kb. I use the Tk for color grading.
I have no need for the Bt or Mf because I have all the shortcuts available on the C1 Logic Keyboard and I have added 20 new ones myself.
Please see the attached .pdfs for details.
My only complaint for the Kb would be that you have to be very careful not to accidentally hit any of the knobs because they change very easily.
I didn't map the brush size, pen size and spot radius because I do that with my Wacom Intous.
I think that Kb+Tk+Logic Keyboard+Wacom is a winner combination for the C1 11.
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My experience with the Wave has been great. Takes some getting used to and I find myself out of habit reaching for the mouse. We will do a segment in the tutorial with the Tangent products.
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Amazingly well!
I have the Element Kb and Tk that I use alongside the C1 Logic Keyboard and the Wacom Intous. I have all the adjustment sliders mapped to the Kb and I have also mapped the RGB Levels controls to the Kb. I use the Tk for color grading.
I have no need for the Bt or Mf because I have all the shortcuts available on the C1 Logic Keyboard and I have added 20 new ones myself.
Please see the attached .pdfs for details.
My only complaint for the Kb would be that you have to be very careful not to accidentally hit any of the knobs because they change very easily.
I didn't map the brush size, pen size and spot radius because I do that with my Wacom Intous.
I think that Kb+Tk+Logic Keyboard+Wacom is a winner combination for the C1 11.
That's an outstanding setup.
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Excellent job Tibor!
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I have the Element Kb and Tk that I use alongside the C1 Logic Keyboard and the Wacom Intous. I have all the adjustment sliders mapped to the Kb and I have also mapped the RGB Levels controls to the Kb. I use the Tk for color grading.
Hi Tibor,
Thank you for sharing the mapping. Could you please upload a photograph of your work space. I'm right handed and my work flow / space editing tools include a (small) wacom with a Apple wireless keyboard. The element system sounds great, I just want to get a idea of the physical placement of the Kb, Tk, wacom, keyboard and etc on my work desk. It would be great to hear about your workflow. When I edit with my wacom, I rarely put the pen down. Would you put the element system infront of the keyboard/wacom or put them to left of the keyboard?
Happy New Year.
Jeffery
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Could you please upload a photograph of your work space.
At this time I wouldn't be too happy to do this publicly because my work space is in the middle of rearranging the cables and I also have other stuff on my desk (like an electric teapot, a mini sound mixer, a table lamp...). If you PM me I can send you a pic on your e-mail at the end of this week or so.
I did however plan everything upfront in 3D and I can show you how my desk looks without all that clutter (see attached). My desk is 240 cm (7.87 feet) wide and 100 cm (3.28 feet) deep.
I'm right handed and my work flow / space editing tools include a (small) wacom with a Apple wireless keyboard. The element system sounds great, I just want to get a idea of the physical placement of the Kb, Tk, wacom, keyboard and etc on my work desk. It would be great to hear about your workflow.
I'm right handed too. I work in Sessions and I use Catalogs only for the archive of the very best pics. I have 11 Custom Workspaces defined (see the attached list). In some Workspaces I work only with the Logic Keyboard and the Trackpad (like when in Library, Client Review, Process or Cataloging). When doing just adjustments without masking I mainly use just the Logic Keyboard and the Element Kb (like when in Shoot or Technical Review). When also working in layers I use the Wacom alongside the Logic Keyboard and the Element Kb (like when in Edit BW, Edit Color, Edit Skin Tone and Sharpening). The Element Tk is only used when in Color Grade workspace. For that reason I have mapped the Lightness controls from the Color Balance tool also to the Kb panel (see page 2 of my Kb mapping). Feel free to try my workspaces (attached) just bear in mind that they are made for 27" display (2.560 x 1.440) for pics in portrait mode only! I shoot exclusively in the portrait format with 3:4 aspect ratio.
Would you put the element system infront of the keyboard/wacom or put them to left of the keyboard?
Wacom first! When it is not needed I just disconnect it and put aside. Kb is to the right, next to it is the Trackpad. When I put the Wacom aside I like to put the Trackpad in front of the keyboard (like you have it with notebooks). Tk is behind the keyboard but you can easily reach it when needed. Because I usually do more than one variant when color grading it is not practical to have the Tk in front of the keyboard (I can do a new variant, move among them etc. all with just the keyboard). Also, in my opinion it is better to color grade with your arms stretched ;)
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Excellent job Tibor!
Thank you David.
Actually, I would say that I owe it much to you and your webinars that I regularly follow. Among other things I based my Edit Skin Tone and Color Grade workspaces and workflows on your tips & tricks from the webinars. Keep up the excellent work!
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(like an electric teapot, a mini sound mixer, a table lamp...)
You forgot to mention the cat which somehow finds a way to lay across your keyboard during deadline editing....
Man! Your generosity rocks. Thank you, Thank you and Thank you!
Let me know if I can ever return the favor. Cuban cigars?
Be well.
Jeffery