Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Cameras, Lenses and Shooting gear => Topic started by: ben730 on October 19, 2016, 06:27:30 AM

Title: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: ben730 on October 19, 2016, 06:27:30 AM
The new PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED looks good but not world-shaking and it's expensive...
Until now there is no hood announced.

http://www.cameraegg.org/pc-nikkor-19mm-f4e-ed-tilt-shift-lens-sample-images/

Regards,
Ben

Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: alan_b on October 19, 2016, 01:04:57 PM
Hard to tell much from those samples - look good, but not pushed very far.  No CA, distortion, but perhaps corrected in post?

MTF looks good, and with a healthy grain of salt - better than the Canon 17.  Price is higher as well - worth it to me if the performance is there.  Tilt/shift axes are now independent.  I see the knobs are larger than the 24, thankful for that!  Also looks like a new shift mechanism - maybe a worm/screw mechanism rather than the rack & pinion of the other PC-Es?

Congratulations Nikon, hope it's a hit!  Now keep the momentum going and update the 24 to match.  And how about a 35 while you're at it?
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: ben730 on October 19, 2016, 01:47:27 PM
I'm also not happy with the knobs of the 24 PC. But if the knobs are larger,
won't it be more difficult and clumsy to rotate and handle the lens with a D8xx?
The included flash is really disturbing and I never used it.

But when the performance in the extreme corners is good and it handles
back light situations well, it will be worth the money for me,
also in the clumsy combination with a D8xx.
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: Torbjörn Tapani on October 19, 2016, 03:43:42 PM
Looks encouraging. Will be interesting to see some actual reviews. Some mechanical interferance with D800, not a show stopper but unfortunate.
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: Alan Klein on October 19, 2016, 03:47:04 PM
It seems that the indoor pictures have the camera about half way between the floor and ceiling or higher.  Am I right?  If so, what does that mean from a shooting standpoint?
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: ben730 on October 19, 2016, 04:17:10 PM
Also looks like a new shift mechanism - maybe a worm/screw mechanism rather than the rack & pinion of the other PC-Es?

Thanks Alan for the hint, it really looks like a new mechanism. The knob has moved 90 degrees.
That must be a more comfortable transmission. That's great!  :)
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: ben730 on October 19, 2016, 04:26:16 PM
It seems that the indoor pictures have the camera about half way between the floor and ceiling or higher.  Am I right?  If so, what does that mean from a shooting standpoint?

Yes, I also think the camera position is "half way between the floor and ceiling or higher". I normally try to avoid this angle, if it's not needed to see for example into something like a very special washbasin etc., because the rooms appear lower than they are...
Maybe the photographer did it, to have a reason to shift down.
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: lhodaniel on October 20, 2016, 02:42:46 PM
I'm really angry at Nikon over the 19mm. The lens is at least $1000 over priced. Oh, and I have to add a D810 to fully use it? It won't fully work with the D800E! Might as well buy a 5DMk4. The excellent Canon 17mm TS-E is wider, has independent tilt shift orientation (all ts's should have this...much more important than electronics) and costs $2150. Nikon is thinking they are Leica and they soon will have Leica's market share.

I've shot Nikon since 1983 and it's too expensive for me to switch to Canon right now. But, the minute I can work that out, I'm gone.

Lloyd
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: alan_b on October 20, 2016, 03:47:10 PM
I'm really angry at Nikon over the 19mm. The lens is at least $1000 over priced. Oh, and I have to add a D810 to fully use it? It won't fully work with the D800E! Might as well buy a 5DMk4. The excellent Canon 17mm TS-E is wider, has independent tilt shift orientation (all ts's should have this...much more important than electronics) and costs $2150. Nikon is thinking they are Leica and they soon will have Leica's market share.

I've shot Nikon since 1983 and it's too expensive for me to switch to Canon right now. But, the minute I can work that out, I'm gone.

Lloyd

If it makes you feel better to be angry, so be it.  I doubt the pricing is a personal attack or attempt to gouge.  Are you angry that the 5D4 is $1000 more than the D810 with lower resolution & dynamic range?

The Canon 17mm was first in this case, but the Nikon 19mm will be better optically.  If the Canon works for you, great - one can find good deals on them used!

Do you have the 24 PCE?  If so, you should be familiar with the "limitations" on D800 bodies: mainly a minor inconvenience in rotation flexibility.  The new 19 looks to improve on that situation.
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: lhodaniel on October 20, 2016, 04:19:53 PM
I just read that the 19 might have geared movements a la Schneider. That mitigates my price/value feelings a bit.
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: Ghibby on October 21, 2016, 09:37:30 AM
From the positions of the adjustment knobs it looks like the shift mechanism is on a worm gear but the tilt looks like it is still most likely to be rack and pinion. On the Canons it is the tilt movements that are more prone to wear and loosening over time than the shift which is very solid.  They are easily tightened at servicing or you can even do this yourself if you are brave, just a pair of spring loaded clamps with 4  screws to adjust friction.
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: kers on October 21, 2016, 10:00:17 AM
looking at the images of the lens it seems it has 12mm of shift.
That is a lot.
If it still can deal with a 36MP in the corner fully shifted @ f8 it is certainly worth the money.
In that case you have to compare the price with a 19mm MF lens. One that does not exist.
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: shadowblade on October 21, 2016, 11:59:02 AM
Hoping for an adapter that allows aperture control, to use it on E-mount bodies.
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: ErikKaffehr on October 21, 2016, 12:33:39 PM
Hi,

Check this page: http://briansmith.com/where-are-the-nikon-af-lens-adapters/

Best regards
Erik


Hoping for an adapter that allows aperture control, to use it on E-mount bodies.
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: alan_b on October 21, 2016, 01:01:06 PM
Pic of the new shift mechanism here:
https://www.dpreview.com/news/2699183163/hands-on-with-nikon-af-s-nikkor-70-200mm-f2-8e-and-pc-nikkor-19mm?slide=11 (https://www.dpreview.com/news/2699183163/hands-on-with-nikon-af-s-nikkor-70-200mm-f2-8e-and-pc-nikkor-19mm?slide=11)
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: BernardLanguillier on October 25, 2016, 10:55:42 PM
Mine is scheduled to be delivered on Friday and I may have the chance to use it for landscape work this weekend.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: kers on October 26, 2016, 04:10:30 AM
Mine is scheduled to be delivered on Friday and I may have the chance to use it for landscape work this weekend.

Cheers,
Bernard
I hope it is a very good lens, clearly standing out from the other PCE's that came out in the 12MP era.
I still hold on to the 85mm and 45mm PCE, especially for tilt. I like the character of the 45mm PCE.
How much in enjoyed my 24mm 1.4G and the 24mm PCE nikkor- They were complicated lenses to work with.
I replaced both for the 24mm 1.8G ; a lens that is uncomplicated and delivers very good image quality.
For really wide angle photography i rely on stitching and my good old 14-24mm.
The 14-24's main problem is flare. Hope the 19mm does a better job.
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: BernardLanguillier on October 26, 2016, 05:03:46 AM
I hope it is a very good lens, clearly standing out from the other PCE's that came out in the 12MP era.
I still hold on to the 85mm and 45mm PCE, especially for tilt. I like the character of the 45mm PCE.
How much in enjoyed my 24mm 1.4G and the 24mm PCE nikkor- They were complicated lenses to work with.
I replaced both for the 24mm 1.8G ; a lens that is uncomplicated and delivers very good image quality.
For really wide angle photography i rely on stitching and my good old 14-24mm.
The 14-24's main problem is flare. Hope the 19mm does a better job.

Indeed. I also replaced my 24mm f1.4 and 24mm T/S by the 24mm f1.8. ;)

I stitch a lot also but have been using a Sigma 20mm f1.4 for cases when stitching doesn't work. The sigma is great as a MF lens, pretty useless as an AF lens on the bodies I own. I intend to sell the Sigma and replace it by the 19mm T/S.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: kers on October 26, 2016, 05:37:44 AM
Indeed. I also replaced my 24mm f1.4 and 24mm T/S by the 24mm f1.8. ;)
I stitch a lot also but have been using a Sigma 20mm f1.4 for cases when stitching doesn't work. The sigma is great as a MF lens, pretty useless as an AF lens on the bodies I own. I intend to sell the Sigma and replace it by the 19mm T/S.
Cheers,
Bernard

I do not understand your choice completely;
you replace the 20mm Sigma with the 19mm Nikkor.
If the AF of Sigma does not work well let us say it is a manual focuslens as is the Nikkor.
The Nikkor has to be good even shifted so possibly is not as sharp as the Sigma in the central area.
The Nikkor has probably better flare control than the Sigma...
(The Sigma is much cheaper than the nikkor)

From your posts i get the impression that you enjoy absolute lens quality.
It is not likely that you are going to find that on a shifted 19mm image... or Nikon has produced a miracle...
(Also it is more work to correct the distortion of a shifted image)
can you explain?









Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: BernardLanguillier on October 26, 2016, 05:52:57 AM
I do not understand your choice completely;
you replace the 20mm Sigma with the 19mm Nikkor.
If the AF of Sigma does not work well let us say it is a manual focuslens as is the Nikkor.
The Nikkor has to be good even shifted so possibly is not as sharp as the Sigma in the central area.
The Nikkor has probably better flare control than the Sigma...
(The Sigma is much cheaper than the nikkor)

From your posts i get the impression that you enjoy absolute lens quality.
It is not likely that you are going to find that on a shifted 19mm image... or Nikon has produced a miracle...
(Also it is more work to correct the distortion of a shifted image)
can you explain?

With great pleasure.

It is quite simple in fact, I just try to avoid as much as possible owning 2 lenses in the same focal length.

I won't sell the Sigma until I test the Nikkor of course, but I expect the Nikkor to be in the same ballpark non shifted considering its modest maxim aperture. My copy of the 24mm T/S non shifted was outstanding.

When maximum image quality is needed, I do stitch anyway.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: kers on October 26, 2016, 06:36:54 AM
With great pleasure.

It is quite simple in fact, I just try to avoid as much as possible owning 2 lenses in the same focal length.

I won't sell the Sigma until I test the Nikkor of course, but I expect the Nikkor to be in the same ballpark non shifted considering its modest maxim aperture. My copy of the 24mm T/S non shifted was outstanding.

When maximum image quality is needed, I do stitch anyway.

Cheers,
Bernard
Ok, my copy of the 24mm PCE was not that good @ infinity- indoors it was outstanding ( curved field of focus)
If money is not an issue i understand your choice, still, there is also the 15mm zeiss...
( a less complicated mechanism- so more steady and reliable perhaps)

Looking forward to see your findings with the 19mm... especially maximum shifted

PK
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: BernardLanguillier on October 30, 2016, 09:52:33 AM
(https://c5.staticflickr.com/6/5484/30545212772_2b677f1bb8_o.jpg)

(https://c4.staticflickr.com/6/5636/30575244891_1f55894e31_o.jpg)

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: kers on October 30, 2016, 07:30:58 PM
Bernard , thanks for posting...

colors look very nice

it shows me a few things:

i do no see any vignetting in the sky...? did you correct it?
- sharp- unsharp looks very smooth for 19mm ( did you use a bit of tilt in the leaves picture..?









Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: BernardLanguillier on October 30, 2016, 07:52:15 PM
i do no see any vignetting in the sky...? did you correct it?
- sharp- unsharp looks very smooth for 19mm ( did you use a bit of tilt in the leaves picture..?

No, I didn't correct vignetting at all. I believe that this image was shot with a slight rise, like 2 or 3mm. That was shot at f8 though.

Yes, the leaves image was shot with probably 2-3 degrees of tilt.

Overall the lens seems well behaved. The extreme corners with 10-12 mm of shift do of course show weaker corners when examined at 100%, but it is still pretty good when looking at prints. In the center the image quality seems nearly Otus like.

The lens is easy to use thanks to the independent shift/tilt action (something Canon T/S users have been benefiting from for years), build quality is second to none. The lens cap is great.

The only issue is going to be flare as feared.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: kers on October 31, 2016, 05:52:49 AM
About flare-
The 14-24 suffers from it as we know.

If it is the kind of flare that can be helped by using your hand to keep the sun out flare- it is ok with me,
But the 14-24 also showed flare in an other way:
For instance a close photo in the evening of a building with large lit windows. ( so the lens has to solve this problem on its own)
This photo took me some work because of that.
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: shadowblade on October 31, 2016, 08:46:05 AM
How are the corners when fully shifted, on a 36Mp sensor?
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: BernardLanguillier on November 01, 2016, 07:03:30 PM
How are the corners when fully shifted, on a 36Mp sensor?

Not perfect when looked at 100% on screen, but fairly decent in actual prints.

However I have only tried so far hand held on trees with moving leaves located a bit too close, I need to try on a building.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: kers on November 01, 2016, 08:03:53 PM
and i am curious to see the kind of field of sharpness it has...

Ideally for my purpose it would be rounded at close distance up to 5 meter for interiors and flat at infinity for landscape/ external architecture.

I still did not see the lens appear in the Netherlands to check it out myself.

BTW
lens rentals checked out the new 105mm (101mm) lens and think it is stellar.
Nikon seems to have found the way up.
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: wallpaperviking on November 02, 2016, 03:53:41 AM
Bernard,

             Do you know if this lens behaves the same as other Nikon PC lenses and only allows aperture control via electronic communication?

Would love to have a wide angle lens that enabled movements to be used on my Hcam master and also allowed aperture control.  This is possible with normal Nikon G lenses and an adapter but not with the PC lenses right?

Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: shadowblade on November 02, 2016, 07:58:53 AM
I'd like to see a side-by-side comparison at some stage, against the Canon TS-E 17 and TS-E 24, all on the same body (the A7r2 being the logical choice), to see how they all hold up in terms of image quality.
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: kers on November 02, 2016, 08:05:26 AM
I'd like to see a side-by-side comparison at some stage, against the Canon TS-E 17 and TS-E 24, all on the same body (the A7r2 being the logical choice), to see how they all hold up in terms of image quality.

Without having the 19mm or even looked at it i already know it will be the better lens in this comparison.

why?
It is the latest made TS lens, 1.5x more expensive than the Canons and Nikon knows it has to do better than Canon or this 19mm has no buyers.
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: shadowblade on November 02, 2016, 07:15:36 PM
Without having the 19mm or even looked at it i already know it will be the better lens in this comparison.

why?
It is the latest made TS lens, 1.5x more expensive than the Canons and Nikon knows it has to do better than Canon or this 19mm has no buyers.

No, it doesn't have to do better than the Canons. It only has to do better than the previous Nikons.

The Canons won't fit onto a D810. If you want to use it on a Nikon body, it'll have to be a Nikon lens.
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: BernardLanguillier on November 02, 2016, 08:54:00 PM
No, it doesn't have to do better than the Canons. It only has to do better than the previous Nikons.

The Canons won't fit onto a D810. If you want to use it on a Nikon body, it'll have to be a Nikon lens.

I don't think that Nikon has given up trying to convince Canon users to switch over. In fact I think that this remains their main objective.

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: ben730 on November 04, 2016, 11:21:35 AM
My 19 PC arrived this morning and I made a short test at infinity
and compared it with the Nikkor 14-24 mm and the Schneider Super Digitar 28XL with P40+.
I'm quite happy with this lens for the moment. After some jobs I can tell more. Until now, I didn't recognize a real
interference with the D800. It's better than with the 24 PC.

This is the link to download the RAWs as EIPs for C1.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/hp5soyquuzqn6m0/AAAtTkk3zCKL0jRbbkekwd2qa?dl=0

I hope this gives you some information about this lens.
On the pictures below you can see how I made the tests. All shots where taken at F11. (That's what I need for architecture.)
Regards,
Ben
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: ben730 on November 04, 2016, 12:06:17 PM
Here is another picture (packed as EIP) with 12 mm shift up.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9yuynnu0hxs4g87/Nikkor19PC_12mmup.eip?dl=0

The distortion is visible and strong.
Sharpness is ok, CA is also strong.
But it's a 19 mm with 12 mm shift.....so I think it performs very good.



Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: kers on November 05, 2016, 09:24:00 AM
Here is another picture (packed as EIP) with 12 mm shift up.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9yuynnu0hxs4g87/Nikkor19PC_12mmup.eip?dl=0

The distortion is visible and strong.
Sharpness is ok, CA is also strong.
But it's a 19 mm with 12 mm shift.....so I think it performs very good.

hi Ben,

I do not have do not rawdigger, would prefer to download the nef file.
Just calculated 19mm means 87º horizontal  and with 12mm shift it is 115º
vertical 12 mm shift means 103º  so that is a lot.

Must say that it appears to be very difficult to make a perfect wideangle lens;
Even the Otus 28mm is not perfect. (Lenstip.com)
My solution is to make a stitch if i can and if not use the 14-24mm lens. I use a D810.
But if you use it on a MF back the 19mm is probably the best solution for obtaining the highest quality one shot ultrawide images.
PK
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: ben730 on November 06, 2016, 12:20:23 PM
would prefer to download the nef file.

Voilà,
here some NEFs from my other balcony.
PC 19 vs. 14-24
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/laws1xkh6jsv8ba/AACwVURNdH34RqlHMqdUGbjLa?dl=0

The PC19 performs a little better than the 14-24 at 19mm.
The PC19 stays very good until about 10mm horizontal shift.

This time I didn't shoot the Schneider Super Digitar 28XL with P40+ comparison,
it played in my first test in an other league.


Regards,
Ben
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: kers on November 06, 2016, 08:06:04 PM
Voilà,
here some NEFs from my other balcony.
PC 19 vs. 14-24
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/laws1xkh6jsv8ba/AACwVURNdH34RqlHMqdUGbjLa?dl=0

The PC19 performs a little better than the 14-24 at 19mm.
The PC19 stays very good until about 10mm horizontal shift.

This time I didn't shoot the Schneider Super Digitar 28XL with P40+ comparison,
it played in my first test in an other league.


Regards,
Ben

Thanks for sharing;


I am not disappointed; it seems to be a fine lens.
I think a d810 would improve the image a bit more.
Also F8 instead of F11 ( not sure if that is better 12mm shifted )
And i always check focus @ f8 with live view from corner to corner- but in this case the focus seems very uniform
regards, PK

PS just calculated: A 19mm lens with image circle of 60mm... !
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: Torbjörn Tapani on November 07, 2016, 04:06:28 AM
Thanks for the .NEFs. Looks good to me! Some CA that is to be expected I guess.
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: Ghibby on November 07, 2016, 08:05:04 AM
From these samples it is clear this is a very nice lens indeed.  Its holding it microcontrast out quite a way into the edges of the frame when fully shifted.  Significantly better than than the 14-24 at 19mm across the frame. Impressed. Its a bit little better to the right at full shift than the left but I have not yet found a TS-E or PC-E lens that performs perfectly uniformly when fully shifted.

Ben
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: ben730 on November 07, 2016, 09:01:20 AM
Maximum sharpness in the center is at F5.6.
But when shifted 5mm, F11 is best. F8 is not good enough in the corners and not
visibly better in the center.

Sorry, but I can't share these pictures.
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: Ghibby on November 07, 2016, 09:43:22 AM
These performance characteristics come as no surprise. I see similar behavior on Canon 24 and 17 TS-E's.  Best at F5.6, F8 is a good compromise aperture to maintain the micro-contrast with mild to moderate shifts but as you start to use more extreme movements F11 or so is required for detail.  I'm sure for such similar packaging / production cost constraints facing the designers of these lens types that they must end up arriving at quite similar designs and compromises in the end. 
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: wallpaperviking on November 11, 2016, 10:24:26 PM
Hi Ben730,
 
Just wondering if you were possibly able to answer this previously unanswered question?

Do you know if this lens behaves the same as other Nikon PC lenses and only allows aperture control via electronic communication?

Would love to have a wide angle lens that enabled movements to be used on my Hcam master and also allowed aperture control.  This is possible with normal Nikon G lenses and an adapter but not with the PC lenses right?

Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: ben730 on November 14, 2016, 01:22:04 PM
Hi Ben730,
 
Just wondering if you were possibly able to answer this previously unanswered question?

Do you know if this lens behaves the same as other Nikon PC lenses and only allows aperture control via electronic communication?

Would love to have a wide angle lens that enabled movements to be used on my Hcam master and also allowed aperture control.  This is possible with normal Nikon G lenses and an adapter but not with the PC lenses right?

Thanks in advance!

Sorry, I don't know, but the 19 PC has no aperture ring compared to the other PC Nikkors, that's why I think it works like a G lens.
You are welcome to come with your Hcam at my studio and check it out..... ;)
Regards,
Ben
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: wallpaperviking on November 15, 2016, 06:02:59 AM
Thanks for the reply back, much appreciated!

My guess is that it still needs electronic communication with the camera but might have to wait until I can get my hands on one to rent..

Would love to drop by your studio but might be a bit of a long journey from Australia ;)
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: ben730 on December 18, 2016, 06:48:14 PM
After some weeks and several jobs of architectural photography with this Nikkor I'm now sure that I can recommend this lens
with my best knowledge and belief. With this lens I can solve certain problems in a better way than I was able with my equipment
before. In the shorter direction at F11 you can unconcerned shift at the maximum 12 mm and sharpness stays great over the whole picture.
That's huge an is rarely needed!
To focus (with D800 and also 810) is very time consuming, here I really prefer the Schneider Digitars with MFDB. CA has to be and can be corrected in post.
I don't know why Nikon doesn't offer a professional lens hood for this lens. It is necessary in many situations and I strongly recommend to use one.

Regards,
Ben
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: kers on December 19, 2016, 07:11:17 AM
...
To focus (with D800 and also 810) is very time consuming, here I really prefer the Schneider Digitars with MFDB. CA has to be and can be corrected in post.
I don't know why Nikon doesn't offer a professional lens hood for this lens. It is necessary in many situations and I strongly recommend to use one.

Regards,
Ben

Ben, do you ever use spitview in the d810?I find it a very nice way to get control over the whole image...
It is not implement in the best possible way but it gives me some help especially when i use tilt...

Pieter Kers

Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: Shinichi Sato on December 19, 2016, 07:31:57 AM
Hi Ben,
I totally agree with you! The professional lens hood like a matte-box is a necessary item for the lens!

best regards,
Shinichi
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: ben730 on December 19, 2016, 07:54:56 AM
Ben, do you ever use spitview in the d810?I find it a very nice way to get control over the whole image...
It is not implement in the best possible way but it gives me some help especially when i use tilt...

Pieter Kers
Pieter, yes I use it and it's great but I would also like to have split view of the bottom and top in horizontal position.
I can only split left and right in horizontal position, right?
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: kers on December 19, 2016, 08:33:26 AM
Pieter, yes I use it and it's great but I would also like to have split view of the bottom and top in horizontal position.
I can only split left and right in horizontal position, right?

Yes you are right

I would like to have ti up and down to but also left -centre-right   ( so 3 splits instead of 2)
and would like it if it could remember the last used zoom and position...
now it takes too much time to set it up... a one button option would be nice...
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: Dominique_R on January 29, 2017, 03:47:37 AM
Thanks for these very interesting exchanges about the 19mm tilt-shift. I've had the 35mm PC in the 1980s, I have the 24mm now and I'm hugely bothered by the fact that I have to choose between tilt and shift on the same axis, or on different axes, with mandatory pit stop at Nikon Service in between. The 19 would be a huge improvement over this, not to mention the new shift mechanism which looks like a big improvement over that in the 24.

So, I'm seriously contemplating this 19mm, but there isn't a lot available online in terms of reviews and I was glad to find firsthand account on LL. What I have read here reinforces my interest for this lens. I already own the 14~24, the 24/1.4 and the Zeiss 15/2.8, but nothing replaces a good tilt-shift for architecture.

Thanks again for your help, and if another LL member also owns this lens already, let them contribute their input to this thread, thanks in advance.
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: alan_b on January 30, 2017, 12:41:38 PM
It's a great lens - distortion, CA, sharpness, microcontrast are all excellent.  It's vulnerable to veiling flare from stray light sources, even a bright sky/window - keep it shaded with flags, hand, etc.  The mechanics are more versatile and sturdier, if a little slower to operate (worm drive shift vs rack & pinion).

I haven't done thorough comparisons at multiple distances, but quickly at medium distance: (my single copies only)
14-24 @ 19mm: center is comparable to PCE19, corners are softer than unshifted PCE19.
17-35 @ 19mm: center slightly softer @ 5.6 than PCE19, corners softer at best aperture than unshifted PCE19 at any aperture.
PCE 24mm: similar at center, softer everywhere else than PCE19.

I don't have the Zeiss 15 or Nikon 24/1.4 to compare.  Let me know if you want  to know anything specific.
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: Blue439 on January 31, 2017, 12:26:59 PM
Thanks Alan for this valuable information. I would use that lens mostly at infinity, or close to, it being for landscape (stitching) and architecture work.

Considering the amount of money to fork out, I will of course appreciate any kind of reviews that will finish to convince me that it is indeed worth it.
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: kers on February 17, 2017, 09:44:57 AM
As you probably already found out ; there is more information here:

http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=115125.0
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: marc aurel on February 17, 2017, 03:15:13 PM
You can use the Canon TS-Es on non-Canon cameras with dumb adapters by setting the aperture on a Canon body and detaching the lens. Aperture will stay at the setting used last. Does anybody know how the PC-E 19 behaves when you do that? Does it behave similarly or does it jump to wide open or smallest aperture or whatever?
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: BernardLanguillier on February 17, 2017, 03:56:33 PM
You can use the Canon TS-Es on non-Canon cameras with dumb adapters by setting the aperture on a Canon body and detaching the lens. Aperture will stay at the setting used last. Does anybody know how the PC-E 19 behaves when you do that? Does it behave similarly or does it jump to wide open or smallest aperture or whatever?

I imagine the frustrations of Canon and Nikon engineers whose bodies end up becoming only aperture changing devices for other usage. ;)

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: marc aurel on February 17, 2017, 04:49:51 PM
I imagine the frustrations of Canon and Nikon engineers whose bodies end up becoming only aperture changing devices for other usage. ;)

Cheers,
Bernard

Maybe. But if they are cool the lens designers at Nikon could as well take it as a compliment that people even think about such an inconvenient way to work with their lens. The PC-E 19 is really amazing for such a wide shift lens.
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: alan_b on February 17, 2017, 05:09:32 PM
You can use the Canon TS-Es on non-Canon cameras with dumb adapters by setting the aperture on a Canon body and detaching the lens. Aperture will stay at the setting used last. Does anybody know how the PC-E 19 behaves when you do that? Does it behave similarly or does it jump to wide open or smallest aperture or whatever?

Yes, removing the lens with the DoF button held down keeps its aperture stopped down (just tested with a D810).
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: marc aurel on February 17, 2017, 05:37:04 PM
Yes, removing the lens with the DoF button held down keeps its aperture stopped down (just tested with a D810).

Thank you!
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: mcnash on March 15, 2017, 01:29:23 PM

Does anybody know of a filter solution for the pc-e 19mm yet?
thx
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: Blue439 on March 18, 2017, 09:58:10 AM
All right ! I took the plunge and ordered one... Just a bit over 3,000 euros. Will receive it in a few days. To be used with a D810, mostly (well, I do have a Novoflex Nikon-to-Fuji adapter to use on my X-Pro 2...).  ;D
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: Paul2660 on March 18, 2017, 11:02:58 AM
If the Novovflex works on the the 19mm, please post results.  The PC-E's all need electronic connections to camera so in the past they will will not work without a Nikon body from my experience unlike the Canon TS-E's.

Paul Caldwell
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: Eric Brody on March 20, 2017, 03:51:35 PM
Today I sold my D800E, my penultimate Nikon body. I still have my F2 from 1975.

I did keep my three PC-E tilt shift lenses (24/85/85) but before selling the D800E set each to f/5.6, where they shall remain, pending another Nikon digital body.

I still hope to try to use the PC-E's on my Fuji X T-2 but know full well, from lots of reading and question asking, that there is no way to control the aperture hence the choice to set them to f/5.6.
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: BernardLanguillier on March 21, 2017, 12:20:54 AM
I did keep my three PC-E tilt shift lenses (24/85/85) but before selling the D800E set each to f/5.6, where they shall remain, pending another Nikon digital body.

Hum... I would have picked f9.... ;)

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: voidshatter on March 21, 2017, 08:56:20 PM
Hum... I would have picked f9.... ;)

Cheers,
Bernard

Agreed. What's worse is that rumor says Sony stops selling new sensors to Nikon, which means the D800E/D810 may get their life cycle extended.
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: Eric Brody on March 25, 2017, 12:16:39 PM
Bernard and voidshatter, I would appreciate knowing why you suggested f/9 for the PC-E Nikons on my Fuji X T-2. I thought a lot about the difference between f/5.6 and f/8 and ended up choosing f/5.6 because most lenses are around their best about two stops down from wide open. The good news is that I have a number of friends with Nikon full frame bodies and while it would not be convenient to change the aperture often, it could be done.
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: kers on March 25, 2017, 12:54:37 PM
Bernard and voidshatter, I would appreciate knowing why you suggested f/9 for the PC-E Nikons on my Fuji X T-2. I thought a lot about the difference between f/5.6 and f/8 and ended up choosing f/5.6 because most lenses are around their best about two stops down from wide open. The good news is that I have a number of friends with Nikon full frame bodies and while it would not be convenient to change the aperture often, it could be done.
Although not addressed to me i think i can answer; I too have owned all three lenses.

Now the Fuji is not full frame, so f5.6 is indeed the best for the central part, however shifted strongly the sides are best :
24mm PCE F10, and 45PCE and 85PCE F8.

cheers, PK
Title: Re: PC NIKKOR 19mm f/4E ED
Post by: Eric Brody on March 25, 2017, 02:45:29 PM
Thanks kers, I pretty much use the PC-E's either "straight" as a macro lens, or often tilted. It's rare for me to shift them.

I'll consider changing them to f/8 the next time I get a chance.

Eric