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Site & Board Matters => About This Site => Topic started by: theophilus on June 02, 2006, 10:49:41 am

Title: canon ipf5000
Post by: theophilus on June 02, 2006, 10:49:41 am
Hi Michael-

You mentioned in the printer forum you'd be posting straight away with some first impressions on this printer.  I'm extremely interested in any initial details regarding the setup, intial ink usage, build quality compared with the 4800, etc.  I'm in the market for a printer and have been waiting eagerly for the Canon offering.

As always, thanks for sharing your opinions.
Title: canon ipf5000
Post by: Brian Gilkes on June 02, 2006, 09:04:44 pm
Perhaps Mark could be persuaded to conduct a cost analysis on ink usage for the new Canon.
I'm sure prints look great . We know the gamut is a little wider than the Epson UC K3 inkset from other reports.The dynamic range is critical as is B&W quality. Tendency to clog , drying times and outgassing are also very important. There have been reports of noticable dots in smooth areas. If that is so, and if there is not a fix, the printer is out. What I am most interested in, and what is seldom reported, is the linearity of the inkset. This was one of the main reasons why people went for the K3 inkset over the older Ultrachrome (K2) set. Performance of the Epson on matte papers with the matte black ink is frankly poor to the point of unacceptability on art papers with images with deep blacks and shadow detail. If Canon can sort this one out they could have a winner.
I am watching these reports with anticipation that we might get answers to these issues.
Many of us will be relying on this sort of information before considering purchasing the bigger machines that will hopefully be released later this year.
How is the rumour mill Bernard?
Cheers,
Brian
www.pharoseditions.com.au
Title: canon ipf5000
Post by: BernardLanguillier on June 02, 2006, 10:02:25 pm
Quote
How is the rumour mill Bernard?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=67224\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Nothing new on my side unfortunately...

Cheers,
Bernard
Title: canon ipf5000
Post by: theophilus on June 03, 2006, 05:18:10 pm
I should mention that I'm also really looking forward to Michael's detailed review on how the printer interacts with the 5D via the Direct Print button  

I did find this review from Red River Paper, for others interested in the printer:
http://www.redrivercatalog.com/infocenter/...rafipf5000.html (http://www.redrivercatalog.com/infocenter/articles/canonprografipf5000.html)
Title: canon ipf5000
Post by: ericaro on June 03, 2006, 05:25:11 pm
Brian,
           What other report has shown a wider gamut? I am anxiously waiting too.
                             Louis Bouillon
Title: canon ipf5000
Post by: Kenneth Sky on June 03, 2006, 07:18:52 pm
The Red River test seems to show the iPF 5000 produces a sharper, more detailed print than the Epson 4800 but at a cost of smoothness. Of course this is without specific ICC profile or a RIP. Maybe I've switched from "pixel peeping" to "dot dithering"
Title: canon ipf5000
Post by: Brian Gilkes on June 04, 2006, 07:19:26 pm
Quote
Brian,
           What other report has shown a wider gamut? I am anxiously waiting too.
                             Louis Bouillon
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=67294\")

Louis,
Now I can't find the gamut report I read.
The review at
[a href=\"http://www.inkjetart.com/canon/wide/iPF5000.html#review]http://www.inkjetart.com/canon/wide/iPF5000.html#review[/url]
has a couple of unsettling features.
The demonstations of enlarged prints shows a disturbing degree of obvious dots. Perhaps firmware updates, dither or a RIP may overcome this.
The other comment was that gloss differential and bronzing was similar to the 4000 ie worse than the much improved K3 inkset as on the 4800. This will be much harder to fix as it is an ink based problem.
I remain to be convinced that this is the printer of our dreams.
Damn. I would live to be "gobsmacked".
Of course Canon has a reputation for rapid improvement and updates in it's product range and this is it's first venture into the pigment inkjet market.
Still if further reviews confirm these early tests , we could be waiting for a while.
In the interim I think it more likely that Epson will fire back first.
They will have to fix the PK/MK hassle and may well go to 12 inks and larger or twin printheads.
If they can do this and adress the poor blacks especially on matte papers then their dominance in wide format art printers will be assured for some time.
Cheers,
Brian,
www.pharoseditions.com.au
Title: canon ipf5000
Post by: rapope on June 09, 2006, 10:21:47 pm
Quote
Louis,
Now I can't find the gamut report I read.
The review at
http://www.inkjetart.com/canon/wide/iPF5000.html#review (http://www.inkjetart.com/canon/wide/iPF5000.html#review)
has a couple of unsettling features.
The demonstations of enlarged prints shows a disturbing degree of obvious dots. Perhaps firmware updates, dither or a RIP may overcome this.
The other comment was that gloss differential and bronzing was similar to the 4000 ie worse than the much improved K3 inkset as on the 4800. This will be much harder to fix as it is an ink based problem.
I remain to be convinced that this is the printer of our dreams.
Damn. I would live to be "gobsmacked".
Of course Canon has a reputation for rapid improvement and updates in it's product range and this is it's first venture into the pigment inkjet market.
Still if further reviews confirm these early tests , we could be waiting for a while.
In the interim I think it more likely that Epson will fire back first.
They will have to fix the PK/MK hassle and may well go to 12 inks and larger or twin printheads.
If they can do this and adress the poor blacks especially on matte papers then their dominance in wide format art printers will be assured for some time.
Cheers,
Brian,
www.pharoseditions.com.au
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=67389\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

FWIW, I grabbed a sample print from an internet-based dealer for both the Canon ipf5000 and the Epson Stylus Pro 7800 and the grain issue that some have commented about was not apparent unless I took a magnifying glass to the prints.  At that point, both showed grain.  To me, it appeared that grain wouldn't be an issue even at closer than normal viewing distances.  However, there were some subtle differences between the ipf5000 and the 7800.  I couldn't decide which one I liked the most!  I was impressed with both!  I would need more prints to evaluate, with bigger subjects.  


HTH,

Rocky
Title: canon ipf5000
Post by: BernardLanguillier on June 09, 2006, 11:19:54 pm
Quote
Of course Canon has a reputation for rapid improvement and updates in it's product range and this is it's first venture into the pigment inkjet market.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=67389\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

If I am not mistaken, the 6400 and 8400 released last year were already using pigment inks.

It is therefore the second generation of Canon pigment printers.

Regards,
Bernard
Title: canon ipf5000
Post by: Mark D Segal on June 10, 2006, 10:56:50 pm
Bernard, I've now had an opportunity to view several of the SAME images printed on an Epson 4800 and Canon IPF5000 on both matte and glossy media. I would like to confirm definitively from my personal observation that both printers produce continuous tone photographs and neither of them show visible grain without a loupe. Since I look at prints to see the photographs and not printer dots, I do not use a loupe and the underlying dot structure is irrelevant, because it isn't visble to the naked eye.
Title: canon ipf5000
Post by: BernardLanguillier on June 11, 2006, 03:29:29 am
Mark,

Thanks for the confirmation. It is good to have objective reports from reliable people on the topic.

Michael also mentioned that he didn't see any dots in his tests prints.

These are very good news. Did you have the chance to compare the gloss differential and metamerism,... of the prints as well?

Regards,
Bernard
Title: canon ipf5000
Post by: Mark D Segal on June 11, 2006, 09:02:13 am
Bernard, comparing for gloss differential and metamerism is a bit tricky and to be honest, I wasn't looking-out for those issues, and very often what you don't look for you don't see. I think in general gloss differential is an over-rated issue because whether you see it depends on the angle at which you look at the print, and generally speaking for non-matte surfaces the angle that minimizes distracting reflectance of the media itself also minimizes the visibility of gloss differential. As for metamerism, one would need to look for it quite carefully under controlled conditions, and I was looking at prints with D50 illumination. That much said, I think in this day and age Canon would be committing commercial "hari-kiri" to produce a printer in that price range which suffers metamerism to any significant extent. For me, neither of these factors would be a deal-breaker on this printer, but that's just me - I have no doubt for many others these issues are more "prioritaire". I was particularly interested in the questions raised elsewhere about non-continuous tone and grain, because the presence of either of them WOULD DEFINITELY BE deal-breakers, and the fact that these are non-issues keeps the IPF5000 on my radar.
Title: canon ipf5000
Post by: Mark D Segal on June 11, 2006, 09:34:18 am
Quote
Perhaps Mark could be persuaded to conduct a cost analysis on ink usage for the new Canon.
........................................Brian
www.pharoseditions.com.au
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=67224\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Brian, yes - if I buy this printer and if its ink consumption data allows, I would certainly be cloning my costing model and starting it over for this printer. That said, let me make three preliminary observations.

(1) From what I hear and read, this printer will be SUBSTANTIALLY more expensive than an Epson 4800. Here in Canada there is a price blitz on the 4800 - obviously someone knows what's around the corner and they're trying to sustain sales. This is good competition. Perhaps it could induce Canon AT LEAST to include the roll paper holder as standard equipment covered in the base price and not a 300 dollar option. Even with that however, Canon will still be costlier than the competition.

Which brings me to point (2): their printer would need to have clear aesthetic, operational and economic advantages over the 4800 to make the investment differential worthwhile. On the aesthetic side, we'll all be best informed with Michael's testing and observations, and we all know this will be done with the seriousness and thoroughness it deserves. On the operational side, the fact that this printer allows one to change media without wasting 150 dollars of ink (Epson) round trip could already justify the investment for those who like to switch media. The number of times one needs to make the round-trip between media depends on the investment cost differential between the SP4800 and the IPF5000. But just for example - to put some initial dimensioning on it: assuming roughly a 1200 price difference between the two machines roller included, (a difference that will slide around as competition evolves)  one only needs 4 round-trips a year over 2 years to make it worth buying the Canon, and that excludes the value of time spent nursing the Epson through the flushing process.

Point (3), and this is really important as my very recent experience on the 4800 is showing, the all-in cost of ink can be very sensitive to the usage pattern of the printer - not in respect of the cost of ink solely used on paper - that remains quite stable in my case at about 0.65 ml per 54 sq. in of Enhanced Matte coverage, but in respect of clogging and cleaning. Based on the Epson experience, I would want to use any new machine under varying operational intervals over a period of three to six months at least to get a reliable fix on clogging and cleaning, which can heavily impact on overall ink consumption per unit of production. Going back to where I started, if I buy this machine and the data allows, I shall do exactly that.
Title: canon ipf5000
Post by: BernardLanguillier on June 11, 2006, 11:16:43 am
Quote
Bernard, comparing for gloss differential and metamerism is a bit tricky and to be honest, I wasn't looking-out for those issues, and very often what you don't look for you don't see.

...

I was particularly interested in the questions raised elsewhere about non-continuous tone and grain, because the presence of either of them WOULD DEFINITELY BE deal-breakers, and the fact that these are non-issues keeps the IPF5000 on my radar.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=67911\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Mark,

I agree with you about the relative priority of things. I was only just wondering whether you had noticed something or not.

How the printer behaves in terms of clogging is indeed key also. I didn't have much time to print recently, and had to go through a power clean up, 3 nozzles clean up and print 2 A2 prints until I got a decent print from my 4000 this afternoon... I don't even want to know much the 4 images I printed today will end up costing...

Regards,
Bernard
Title: canon ipf5000
Post by: Mark D Segal on June 11, 2006, 01:12:43 pm
Quote
Mark,

............I don't even want to know much the 4 images I printed today will end up costing...

Regards,
Bernard
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=67914\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

A bundle!

But you can take some consolation in the fact that if you are a slave to your printer and you keep it busy just about every day henceforth, you will be able to amortize that investment in cleaning over a larger volume of prints.
Title: canon ipf5000
Post by: Brian Gilkes on June 11, 2006, 07:06:21 pm
Bernard,
Thanks for the info on Canon's earlied pigmented ink printers, I am lax in my homework.
I did have information that all Canon printers in the Pro area , up fo the current offering/s had linearuty problems resulting in difficult profiling , especially for monochrome.
Mark,
Thanks also. If you obtain this printer many people will be very interested in your analysis.

Just to make things interesting Canon Europe looks like releasing the iPF9000 this month. 12 Lucia inks, 60" wide. I can't find anything on price yet. At 60" this should give Roland , Imaki and Mutoh a stirr as well as Epson. It is not intended for the fine art market that most of us are in, with 50" being usually the widest art paper width. Still the range seems to be filling up and I would expect intermediate printers sooner rather than later now.

Speed will be a very important factor if quality is at least as good as the Epsons, and I am still concerned about linearity.
Cheers,
Brian,
www.pharoseditions.com.au
Title: canon ipf5000
Post by: BernardLanguillier on June 11, 2006, 07:16:59 pm
Quote
Just to make things interesting Canon Europe looks like releasing the iPF9000 this month. 12 Lucia inks, 60" wide. I can't find anything on price yet.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=67939\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I saw a price of 15.000 US$ recently, not sure whether that was list price or not.

I also don't know how much this will end up costing in other geos, including Japan.

This printer was actually demoed as a proto during the CIE in Tokyo in March. The prints looked good, but it is difficult to judge in show conditions.

Regards,
Bernard
Title: canon ipf5000
Post by: rapope on June 18, 2006, 12:31:02 pm
Quote
But just for example - to put some initial dimensioning on it: assuming roughly a 1200 price difference between the two machines roller included, (a difference that will slide around as competition evolves)  one only needs 4 round-trips a year over 2 years to make it worth buying the Canon, and that excludes the value of time spent nursing the Epson through the flushing process.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=67912\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Mark,

I'd like to commend you on a very thorough analysis.  You've obviously out a lot of time and thought into this subject.

I am contemplating getting either the Epson Stylus Pro 4800 or the Canon iPF5000.  I was very pleased to see that someone has analyzed this subject, making it much easier for someone such as myself to make an informed choice.

I have samples from the iPF5000 and SP7800, and there are some subtle differences.  I didn't see the grain issue that has been discussed here.  I could choose either (preferably both).

I do have one question.  You stated that you found a $1200 price difference between the two (with the roll feed added in for the Canon).  Is that figure in Canadian dollars?  The reason I ask is that I've seen the Canon going for $ 1,945.95 at one particular NYC dealer.  While they didn't have a price listed for the roll feed, I'll use your $300 figure.  This comes to $ 2245.95.

This dealer is selling the Epson for $ 1,819.95.  The difference comes out to $426, which is starting to look more reasonable than $1200.   But if I were to get the Epson, I'd have to get the Pro package, both because it comes with a RIP and because it comes with an Ethernet interface.


Regards,

Rocky
Title: canon ipf5000
Post by: Mark D Segal on June 18, 2006, 01:52:42 pm
Rocky, thanks, but that was far from a thorough analysis. It was just some rough dimensioning based on preliminary information. The thorough analysis may come later. Re the price differential, yes I am working in CAD. The price I hear the Canon will cost here in Canada when released is about 2400~2450 plus another 300 for the roll holder, bringing it to about 2750. Regarding the Epson 4800 - one dealer here in Toronto now has it on sale for about 2000 after a mail-in rebate. As the Epson includes the roll holder, this is a fair price comparison. So that brings the difference to about CAD 750, which after taxes amounts to a difference of about 850. Some weeks ago there was a short-term extra-special on the Epson which brought the difference several hundred higher, but that is gone now.

I don't think we know enough about the operating cost of the Canon yet to make a fully informed choice based on comparative costs alone (which for most purchasers in this market niche would not likely be the most important criterion in any case) - but it is nonetheless obvious that provided other factors don't knock Canon's costs out of line, the smaller the price difference between the two machines the more advantageous the Canon will be for any one wanting to switch frequently between matte and glossy media. My sense is that print quality, flexibility and ease of use will be the decisive variables for most purchasers.
Title: canon ipf5000
Post by: rapope on June 18, 2006, 09:22:21 pm
It's pretty strange how the prices can vary from the US to Canada!  Even taking into account the dollar fluctuations, it's crazy.

I'm hoping to take a ride into New York (I live on Long Island) soon, and I'm hoping to see if the store has a Canon unit to check out.  I'd like to actually check this thing out in person before deciding on one or the other (based on the sample prints I acquired).  The Epson is a known entity.

One thing that goes away from the Canon is the fact that they ship the unit with "starter" cartridges.  It comes out to $900 (US) to buy all 12 ink cartridges at once.  That would possibly be the only time one would have to buy all 12 inks at once, that is unless there was a pile of prints to be made.  If I were just printing out my personal work I wouldn't blow all 130ml of ink at once!


Regards,

Rocky
Title: canon ipf5000
Post by: nigeldh on June 30, 2006, 12:08:08 am
Quote
Perhaps Mark could be persuaded to conduct a cost analysis on ink usage for the new Canon.
... deleted
Cheers,
Brian
www.pharoseditions.com.au
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=67224\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Mike missed it but the iPF500 print log shows ink usage according to the Red River Paper website, look at the end of their review: www.redrivercatalog.com/infocenter/articles/canonprografipf5000.html

Nigel
Title: canon ipf5000
Post by: aussiephil on June 30, 2006, 10:39:28 am
Nigel and others that are interested.

whilst the job log seems to have a limit of the last 32 print jobs, i believe it can still be constructively used to gain a better understanding of ink usage.

I have written a parsing script to take the contents and make database rows, this will allow for stats to be gathered on ink usage based on Paper type and volume

Here's an example of the processed file before adding to a db.

Qimage - 06/30/2006 09:33:56pm|phil|1|Comp|2006/06/30 21:31|2006/06/30 21:35|255|297|420|124740|Coated Paper|USB|1.1
Qimage - 06/30/2006 09:11:19pm|phil|1|Comp|2006/06/30 21:14|2006/06/30 21:20|329|210|297|62370|PhotoPlusSemiGl|USB|0.5
Qimage - 06/30/2006 09:11:19pm|phil|1|Comp|2006/06/30 21:12|2006/06/30 21:15|142|210|297|62370|PhotoPlusSemiGl|USB|0.4
Qimage - 06/30/2006 09:11:19pm|phil|1|Comp|2006/06/30 21:08|2006/06/30 21:13|298|210|297|62370|PhotoPlusSemiGl|USB|0.2
Qimage - 06/30/2006 08:24:24pm|phil|1|Comp|2006/06/30 20:21|2006/06/30 20:25|244|297|420|124740|Coated Paper|USB|1.0
Qimage - 06/30/2006 06:52:40pm|phil|1|Comp|2006/06/30 18:53|2006/06/30 18:55|164|210|297|62370|High Resolution|USB|0.4
Qimage - 06/30/2006 06:52:40pm|phil|1|Comp|2006/06/30 18:49|2006/06/30 18:53|254|210|297|62370|High Resolution|USB|0.3

The last numbers are mls of ink.

I plan to put this into a web published DB, with totals and averages for overall and by paper type.

If other iPF5000 users would like to send their log files to me at
support@incanberra.biz
i will add the data to the db so we can all have a better guess at ink usage.

anyone interested?
Title: canon ipf5000
Post by: bob mccarthy on June 30, 2006, 12:10:02 pm
Quote
A bundle!

But you can take some consolation in the fact that if you are a slave to your printer and you keep it busy just about every day henceforth, you will be able to amortize that investment in cleaning over a larger volume of prints.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=67917\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Really the Epson is best in a high usage situation. We use our Epson 7600, nearly every day and each job is lots of Sq ft. I can't remember the last clog we had. It has functioned flawlessly.

My 2200 is a pain in the arse, clogs up frequently, but then it is used intermittantly.

If Canon or HP solves the nozzle clogging issue, it will be a real advantage over Espon for the average user.

Bob
Title: canon ipf5000
Post by: Mark D Segal on June 30, 2006, 05:00:56 pm
Quote
Nigel and others that are interested.

I plan to put this into a web published DB, with totals and averages for overall and by paper type.

If other iPF5000 users would like to send their log files to me at
support@incanberra.biz
i will add the data to the db so we can all have a better guess at ink usage.

anyone interested?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=69518\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

If I buy this printer I would be interested in working with you on this, but I am seriously considering cancelling my order for this printer until Canon sorts out the key problems identified to date. Generally the language these corporations understand best is money.
Title: canon ipf5000
Post by: aussiephil on July 01, 2006, 07:25:34 am
Quote
If I buy this printer I would be interested in working with you on this, but I am seriously considering cancelling my order for this printer until Canon sorts out the key problems identified to date. Generally the language these corporations understand best is money.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=69537\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Mark,

Well, if you do continue with your order, i would be happy to accept your input, i should have the page up in the next couple of days. I need to refresh my mysql/php memory.

Sadly, one person here, one there will not be enough for Canon to care as there are a large number of people like myself that are ready to move up to 17" or wider and are not prepared to go to Epson with the highly talked about clogging and cleaning cycle issues not to mention the black change.

cheers
Phil
Title: canon ipf5000
Post by: Brian Gilkes on July 01, 2006, 05:01:37 pm
Phil,
I would not get too spooked about rants that have increasingly emerged about Epson printer problems now the IPF Canons have come onto the market. The Epsons are superb printers. The 800 series with the K3 inkset do not clog nearly as often as the previous models using the Ultrachrome (K2) inks . Mark's excellent analysis highlights this and my experience with the Epson 4000 and the 9800 says the same thing. Problems are minimal if printers are turned off once a day , directions to Power Clean are ignored, and a couple of 50% grey (or substitute ) sheets are printed whenever small gaps appear in the tests. Most clogging under average user conditions occurs because loose crap has collided with the printing head. Dust covers will reduce this, as will electrostatic dust removers in the studio. The worst culprits are the fine art papers with loose surfaces and particularly fibres at the ends of rolls or the edges of sheets. These can be reduced by careful vacuuming when the material is first unpacked, and in the case of some manufacturers products , the vacuuming of each sheet or roll section to be printed, just prior to printing.
Of course any ink application technology that reduces these tedious measures is most welcome.
The ink swop problem is a real pain for which Epson deserve a rap over the knuckles. It was only a matter of time before someone did it , and Canon has stepped in.
There is a tendency to leap onto new offerings and turn against the old love.
With market pressure, particularly from company bean counters, many new products are prematurely released.
This may not be the case with the new Canon printers, but indicates that caution is sensible.
We must be assured that colour output is consistent before moving to these printers.
If we have to wait a week for inks to stabilise, then no one in a production environment will touch these things. The much more rapid stabilisation of the K3 inkset over the K2 was a major reason to upgrade to the latest Epson printers. No one would move backwards for a marginal increase in printing speed (at highest quality) and a small increase, perhaps purity in blues (offset by less red gamut) and dubious advantages of 12 bit data flow. Any other reasons for colour inconsistency , if firmly established, are more serious.
The black swop problem has to be , and I believe will be, addressed by Epson.
Both companies should be searching for a better matte black. Eboni ink indicates this is possible.
Mark's caution is wise.
Cheers,
Brian
www.pharoseditions.com.au
Title: canon ipf5000
Post by: nigeldh on July 02, 2006, 05:10:36 am
Quote
...
Sadly, one person here, one there will not be enough for Canon to care as there are a large number of people like myself that are ready to move up to 17" or wider and are not prepared to go to Epson with the highly talked about clogging and cleaning cycle issues not to mention the black change.

cheers
Phil
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=69575\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Phil,
Speaking of clogged ink heads, many folks have said that with an Epson 4800 etc. it is foolish not to buy the service contract. One ink head replacement and one has more than recovered the service contract cost.

With a Canon iPF5000 etc the ink head is an FRU, field replaceable unit. A cost advantage for the Canon iPF5000 that I haven't seen mentioned before.

Plus with a Canon, the first set of full cartridges may be ~$US 900 but you are buying 12, not 6. And you are probably not going to buy all the cartridges at once but say a couple at a time.

And thanks for offering to do an ink usage web page.

Nigel
Title: canon ipf5000
Post by: aussiephil on July 02, 2006, 09:01:36 am
Quote
Phil,
I would not get too spooked about rants that have increasingly emerged about Epson printer problems now the IPF Canons have come onto the market. The Epsons are superb printers.
Mark's caution is wise.
Cheers,
Brian
www.pharoseditions.com.au
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=69600\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Brian,

I was personally not spooked by all the rants but it was fairly obvious that constant use was a near mandatory requirement, how well the Canon does on this is yet to be seen, guess i will be a guinea pig on this.
My usage for personal use will be sporadic but when i print i print quite a bit so it will be an interesting journey anyway.

I have profiled my various papers using PrintFix Pro and i now have consistant colours across the range of papers i use, i will reprofile in about three weeks to check  i guess.

Using both Gloss and Matte papers on a regular basis meant the Epson was a no go for me.

I have just finished printing a sample pack from an Austalian paper manufacturer to see what i like, pity they only sent me one A4 sheet of each paper.

I understand and agree with your comments on stability of output for professional use though.

Cheers
Title: canon ipf5000
Post by: aussiephil on July 02, 2006, 09:13:52 am
Quote
Phil,
 at a time.

And thanks for offering to do an ink usage web page.

Nigel
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=69627\")

Nigel - All

A basic page is now available at

[a href=\"http://www.incanberra.biz/ppweb/ipf5000inkusage.html]http://www.incanberra.biz/ppweb/ipf5000inkusage.html[/url]

I have grouped and sub totalled by paper type with totals on the last page.
just noticed that the column heading don't line up, (to be fixed)

Cheers
Phil
Title: canon ipf5000
Post by: leonvick on July 03, 2006, 12:41:29 am
Quote
How the printer behaves in terms of clogging is indeed key also. I didn't have much time to print recently, and had to go through a power clean up, 3 nozzles clean up and print 2 A2 prints until I got a decent print from my 4000 this afternoon... I don't even want to know much the 4 images I printed today will end up costing...

Hey Bernard,
I'm with you all the way on this one. I haven't had as much work to do on my 4000 recently as previously and now find that several inks have clogged every time I want to make a print -- if it's been more than a few days since the last print. Like you, I don't want to know what it's really costing me, but my guess is that I'm now spending more money on cleaning heads than on making prints. If the iPF5000 has substantially fewer problems with clogged inks it will save me money just sitting unused! It's no secret that Epson has created a cash cow with their replacement ink income, but I'm tired of being milked.
Title: canon ipf5000
Post by: Brian Gilkes on July 04, 2006, 02:38:11 am
Quote from: leonvick,Jul 3 2006, 04:41 AM
Hey Bernard,
I'm with you all the way on this one. I haven't had as much work to do on my 4000 recently as previously and now find that several inks have clogged every time I want to make a print -- if it's been more than a few days since the last print. Like you, I don't want to know what it's really costing me, but my guess is that I'm now spending more money on cleaning heads than on making prints. If the iPF5000 has substantially fewer problems with clogged inks it will save me money just sitting unused! It's no secret that Epson has created a cash cow with their replacement ink income, but I'm tired of being milked.




Hi Leon,
I know what you mean, but it's hot dry stuff that does it, and I think that might be your situation.
You could turn the printer on each day to let it do its little clean routine, and then turn it off.
A humidifier is a good idea.
A damp (not wet!) towell over the machine is a low cost possibility.
To avoid the problem in an alternative world more humidicants are added to the inks. This may well be part if Canons solution. If so there will probably be slower drying, longer times to obtain colour stability and more outgassing.
There are early indications that this may be the case.
Let's wait a while..
Cheers,
Brian,
www.pharoseditions.com.au
Title: canon ipf5000
Post by: Lisa Nikodym on July 04, 2006, 11:31:09 am
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I know what you mean, but it's hot dry stuff that does it, and I think that might be your situation.
You could turn the printer on each day to let it do its little clean routine, and then turn it off.
A humidifier is a good idea.
A damp (not wet!) towell over the machine is a low cost possibility.

Based on what I've seen, I'd guess that humidity might very well help.  I've read various peoples' complaints about Epson's 2200 clogging, but I don't recall mine even once having a clogged print head in the several years I've had it, despite frequently not being turned on for several weeks at a time (sometimes even a month).  This is my third or fourth Epson photo printer over the years, and I've never had clogged heads more than a couple of times.  However, I live in a coastal climate that never gets very dry; that may be the difference.

(For that matter, Japan, home of Epson's headquarters, is a pretty damp place too.  Maybe clogging is just never a problem for the printer designers.)

Lisa
Title: canon ipf5000
Post by: leonvick on July 04, 2006, 05:07:44 pm
Quote
I know what you mean, but it's hot dry stuff that does it, and I think that might be your situation.
You could turn the printer on each day to let it do its little clean routine, and then turn it off.
A humidifier is a good idea.

The climate here is much like nearby Las Vegas: hot in the summer and dry the year around. So I looked up some humidifier data and may give one a try. They're a lot cheaper than a new printer and the 4000 is a most satisfactory printer anyway -- when it works. Thanks for the advice. I'll let you know what I do and how it works out...