Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: Lester on May 06, 2006, 09:44:17 pm
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Since I am too cheap to paid BG $25.00, I will just post here at LL.
I have up grade from my P25 to P45, at first I really did not want to do the up-grade, because of all the stories about the color cast on the P45. I really did try to get a Aptus 75 but the cost was too much. So, I up grade to the P45 because of the cost. When BG was free, someone was really mad at Phase One because he had color cast on his P45, I pm him and he told me that Phase One had switch backs with him and he was on his third back, with all of them with the same amount of color cast and that he did not get it with his P25.
This is my story, I finally did up grade my P25 to the P45. I did have a color cast problem with my P25, but it all depend on the subject matter, on how much color cast was in my image, but the LCC in C1 did correct the problem. When I got my P45, it has a weaker color cast then my P25, in fact alot of my images, I did not detect any color cast. I do shoot a lot of fine art images and one of the biggest problem, that produce a lot of color cast, is the dry lake bed in Vegas. Because it is light/medium tan color and I like to use my 35mm lens. It did produce a small amount of color cast but the LCC in C1 correct the problem.
So, I could see that some of the tester, will not mention the color cast, because maybe they got a selected back from Phase One and they never notice the color cast. I did not get one of those select back, I am just a average Joe that might of got lucky. Now I love the back.
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A color cast has nothing to do with the camera/back at all, but rather the profiles used to convert the RAW files, the white balance setting chosen, and the monitor profile. If you have enough money to invest in a P45 back but not enough to acquire decent color management hardware, you need to seriously re-evaluate your spending priorities.
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Lester,
I have had no problem either with two P25's or the P45 I now use. Results on a Mamiya 645 AFD with 35mm and 80mm lenses have been color correct The P45 has had firmware at 1.94 and 2.20 and I have/am using Capture One 3.73 and 3.74.
Note that 3.7.3 does incorrectly state color temperature numbers for the P45 but the images are fine, in my case. Carpture One 3.7.4 corrected the color temperature number issue, so all has been well in my experience.
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A color cast has nothing to do with the camera/back at all, but rather the profiles used to convert the RAW files, the white balance setting chosen, and the monitor profile. If you have enough money to invest in a P45 back but not enough to acquire decent color management hardware, you need to seriously re-evaluate your spending priorities.
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Jonathan,
With all due courtesy, this issue has little in common with color-management. The original poster Lester is referring to a non-uniform, position-dependent color shift which arises on some backs as a result of interactions between the sensor technology (eg. microlenses) and some wide-angle lenses. He should not have used the term color-cast, but everyone here knows what is meant.
I am sure that now you understand what is meant you will wish to rejoin the discussion constructively ...It seems that the software delivered with the Phase backs has some ability to correct for these color shifts, and this involves taking some sort of sample image.
BTW: people are very good at detecting color differences in near-whites, so I expect that color-shifts will be strongly seen in photos taken against seamless white backgrounds ...
Edmund
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Hi Lester
I am glad that you have not had major lens cast issues with your new P45. I suspect I am the guy you reference in your post, so let me update you on my saga.
After countless hours of trouble shooting (involving three different backs) and trying to work around the problem using the LCC tool, I was ready to switch to another back brand, despite the enormous cost difference. At that point, my dealer suggested switching to the H2 mount, as people using the Fuji and Mamiya lenses were reporting a more manageable amount of lens cast (I use Hassy V Zeiss lenses).
Phase One offered to switch my back free of charge, but I still had to upgrade all my gear. Although I expect to have some lens cast with the Fuji lenses, I am hoping that it will be manageable through a standardized LCC library instead of a reference shot for each capture or set of captures.
I have also switched my LF lenses from Schneider Digitars to Rodenstock HRs, because the latter are retrofocus and produce much less cast. In my tests, the HRs still produce cast that is visible in C1 previews, but it is removable with the LCC tool and again hopefully won't require a reference shot for every capture.
I will let you know once I receive all the new stuff.
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I really hope that the problem could be fix, with your P45. I know how big of a problem it is, I did not have extreme amount of Lens Cast (I used Color Cast, but it just confuse some people) on my P25 but I know the problem of getting it out of the images. My P45 is on a Mamiya 645 AFD and it seems that it has a very weak Lens Cast and it only show up on light tone images. On some of the more heavy color images I don't have to used the LCC at all. Glad to hear that Phase One is trying to take care of your problem. I guess that is the only right thing to do. Keep us posted on your adventure on those HR lenses.
I am also glad to see some of the RB people here, they are more knowlegde type and should make this forum a better place.
Hi Lester
I am glad that you have not had major lens cast issues with your new P45. I suspect I am the guy you reference in your post, so let me update you on my saga.
After countless hours of trouble shooting (involving three different backs) and trying to work around the problem using the LCC tool, I was ready to switch to another back brand, despite the enormous cost difference. At that point, my dealer suggested switching to the H2 mount, as people using the Fuji and Mamiya lenses were reporting a more manageable amount of lens cast (I use Hassy V Zeiss lenses).
Phase One offered to switch my back free of charge, but I still had to upgrade all my gear. Although I expect to have some lens cast with the Fuji lenses, I am hoping that it will be manageable through a standardized LCC library instead of a reference shot for each capture or set of captures.
I have also switched my LF lenses from Schneider Digitars to Rodenstock HRs, because the latter are retrofocus and produce much less cast. In my tests, the HRs still produce cast that is visible in C1 previews, but it is removable with the LCC tool and again hopefully won't require a reference shot for every capture.
I will let you know once I receive all the new stuff.
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I read all these posts (and others) about LCC on P45, and when mine arrived I approached it with caution, and went through the (quite simple) LCC correction set up as supplied in Capture One.
just feel I should say I could see no lens cast at all on my 55mm or 80mm lenses (Contax). It seems this is being talked up a lot, (with the possible exception of those who use 35mm or wider lenses of the biogon design on their digiback) and as I am a straight shooter, using wide-standard-tele lenses, its simply a non-issue.
very odd.