Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Computers & Peripherals => Topic started by: cbserota on January 18, 2016, 11:25:08 am

Title: Apple laptops
Post by: cbserota on January 18, 2016, 11:25:08 am
Need to buy an Apple laptop.  Not sure if this is a good time to buy--would anyone know if there are updated laptops due to be released.
                Thanks for any help-----Charley
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: rdonson on January 18, 2016, 12:25:20 pm
Since Apple doesn't publish anything until they're nearly ready to deliver products here's the best rumors I can offer.

http://www.macrumors.com/2015/12/31/what-to-expect-from-apple-in-2016/
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: cbserota on January 18, 2016, 05:33:44 pm
Ron--Thanks for the info---Charley
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: rdonson on January 18, 2016, 08:34:05 pm
You're welcome, Charley
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Jeremy Roussak on January 19, 2016, 04:05:13 am
This part (http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#Mac) of the macrumors site isn't unhelpful either.

Jeremy
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: rdonson on January 19, 2016, 10:07:19 am
Yep, we should see a refresh of Apple's lineup in the coming months with the move to the latest Skylake Intel processors and Thunderbolt 3.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: mkihne on September 23, 2016, 02:29:57 pm
Yep, we should see a refresh of Apple's lineup in the coming months with the move to the latest Skylake Intel processors and Thunderbolt 3.

Rather than new post, just reviving this one. Any new opinion on whether or not new MacBook Pro this year. I know there have been one or more OS "hints". I'm hearing maybe this fall yet. Anyone else have 2 cents?
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: BobShaw on September 23, 2016, 05:07:57 pm
What does it matter what happens in the future? If you need a new MBP now then you buy one. I understand the new OS will run on my 2010 model which runs every application and camera I use.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: N80 on September 23, 2016, 05:28:42 pm
What does it matter what happens in the future?

Better machine for the same money a week after you buy. No need to obsess, but it doesn't hurt to pay attention to the upgrade cycle.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: NancyP on September 26, 2016, 02:09:37 pm
This wait, for me, is the gamble as to which event occurs first: 1. mid-2010 laptop screen or other element gives out 2. Skylake 15" MBP becomes available in "souped-up" version. I have been putting up with a vertical lines screen defect for about 2 years now, livable mostly because it is at the far left and affects only the directory panel most times (LR user).  ???
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: N80 on September 26, 2016, 02:40:35 pm
My first MacBook (the white one) lasted only four years and just up and died. My current MacBook Pro, late 2008, is working just fine other than getting much hotter than it used to.

I spent years culling and editing photos on this MacBook Pro. It is not a Retina Display. When I recently purchased a 5k iMac I could not believe how much better the display is over the laptop. My bad photos look worse on the iMac but my good and marginal photos look way better.

So as this MacBook ages out I am not sure what I will replace it with. Other than web browsing, word processing, email and now very limited photo work I don't use it for much else. With that being the case I may just get an iPad Pro, which, if I don't need to do serious photo editing and DAM, should do everything else I need it to do in a much more portable and versatile package.

However, I will need to re-eval the latest MacBooks with Retina displays. They are likely far superior to my old on in terms of image quality and that might convince me to stick with a MacBook, which could run Capture One, Nik stuff and PS if I needed it to.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: NancyP on September 30, 2016, 12:04:19 pm
The Retina displays are indeed impressive, but they are annoyingly shiny. That's one thing I like about my mid-2010 non-Retina MBP - I got a "non-glare" version which is more pleasing to my eye.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: rdonson on September 30, 2016, 01:06:22 pm
I love my retina MBP, no more glare than my iPad or iPhone though.   

I just bought some black foam core and with the help of a hot glue gun built my own hood for it. No more glare. An inexpensive fix.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: NancyP on October 03, 2016, 12:41:51 pm
Yes, I suspect that I will be doing the same.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Ken Bennett on October 03, 2016, 06:15:13 pm
I'm due for a new laptop at work, and our tech guy is insisting that we wait for the expected new models of Macbook Pro. I'll trust his judgement. :)
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: NancyP on October 03, 2016, 06:52:32 pm
Mac Rumors indicates that new MBP will appear late October or later.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: NancyP on October 19, 2016, 03:43:29 pm
October 27th : announcement of a number of new Apple products. New Retina MBPs are expected to be part of the list.  :)  My current mid-2010 non-retina MBP hasn't developed any more screen defects or other problems...
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: NancyP on October 27, 2016, 07:36:49 pm
October 27 is here, and so are the new Retina MacBook Pros.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Christopher Sanderson on October 27, 2016, 08:01:06 pm
I must be missing something.

My current 4.5 year old MacBook Pro has the same processor but a _tiny_ bit slower clock speed (i7 2.6gHx vs the 'new' i7 2.7 gHz). It has the same 16 GB RAM but does have an arguably slower video card.

I have an SD card slot, 2 TB ports, 2 USB-3 slots, an HDMi output and it is a bit fatter and heavier. Why on earth would I want to upgrade at several thousand $$?
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Farmer on October 27, 2016, 08:23:27 pm
You're not really a Mac user at heart, are you, Chris? ;-)

To be fair, the reduction in weight and size won't have come cheap and the newer processor is more power efficient and more powerful, regardless of clock speed.  The new GPU is better.  For higher end models you get the touchbar, which looks doubtful to be highly useful but will probably be OK and may lead to more useful such concepts.  The lack of SD is going to be annoying to Photographers (who also almost certainly use keyboard shortcuts for Ps that are much faster than the touchbar, but not as pretty :-) ), but with TB giving a USB-C style connection, you do have USB available, just less ports.

It is a hard sell, though, if you already have a good machine and you're not in the need of always having the latest.  Even more so with the latest Surface Book that was announced.

What I do expect is that the next generation, or perhaps a mid-life update, that improves on the concept of the touchbar, could be very interesting and I applaud Apple for at least thinking about new concepts like this even if this one doesn't really seem to hit the mark.

As for the price - it's an Apple - you pay a premium (as you do for the Surface Book) because both Apple and MS are the biggest fish in the sea and they are offering things that no one else is (whether any given individual particularly likes them or not).  Given Apple's primary revenue stream long ago moved to iPods and iPads, if they can't make a decent margin on their Macbooks, they probably can't justify continuing with them.

So I don't think you're really missing anything :-)
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Christopher Sanderson on October 27, 2016, 10:24:35 pm
You're not really a Mac user at heart, are you, Chris? ;-)...
Ah, but I am and have been since the late eighties - that's what makes the slide in Apple's regard for the pro user so galling.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Farmer on October 27, 2016, 10:43:10 pm
Ah, but I am and have been since the late eighties - that's what makes the slide in Apple's regard for the pro user so galling.

I was really being TIC, but, yeah, I get where you're coming from.  Apple's user base has changed, unfortunately - and I say that as "not a Mac user at heart" because many people I know in related industries love and rely on them, but like you, they're finding the love to be lacking as pro users :(  My third computer was an Apple IIe - they've done many amazing things (and some not so great ones, but that's any company).  Maybe they'll surprise us, but I feel that the pro user has very much taken a back seat for the last 5 years, if not a little longer.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: davidgp on October 28, 2016, 01:39:54 am
My current 4.5 year old MacBook Pro has the same processor but a _tiny_ bit slower clock speed (i7 2.6gHx vs the 'new' i7 2.7 gHz). It has the same 16 GB RAM but does have an arguably slower video card.

Don't compare the intel processors just by the speed... the are several generations of i7s... the performance speed is much more than the ghz speed will let you know... Intel has been using the i7 name since 2008... but each year, more or less, releases a new model with 5% to 10% performance speed depending on the task... the GPU inside the processor is even much better...

Saying that... the event of yesterday wasn't that exciting... not that convinced with that touch bar since I rarely look at the keyboard, 4 USB-c/thunderbolt 3/usb3.1 gen 2 ports are ok with me... but now that the projectors around the world have typically an hdmi connector for presentations... apple drops it...

Curios times when the Microsoft event of two days ago was more exciting...



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Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: SZRitter on October 28, 2016, 09:15:20 am
I'm 50/50 on the update. I personally rarely use the function keys, so context sensitive switching on the bar is kind of cool, but I don't know if it will work in the long run or is just a gimmick. Yes, only having four USB-C ports is disappointing in the short term, but the one that really annoys me is the lack of an SD Card reader. I use mine all the freaking time, and it is super convenient when traveling.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: N80 on October 28, 2016, 09:47:33 am
Very unimpressed with the new MacBooks. The prices, however, are quite impressive. My current MBP is pushing 8 years old and starting to show it. This new lineup is uninspiring to me and I have found that I do not get the best possible results when doing post on a laptop. This has me wondering if the iPad pro might not be a better upgrade path for me as I do not rely on my MBP for much else than internet, email and word processing. The iPad Pro would be fine for viewing and sorting images when away from home, even light post processing. Just not sure I'm willing to spend close to $3000 on a high end MBP or even $1500 for a small low end one.

Has anyone else considered ditching their laptop for a high end pad?
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Christopher on October 28, 2016, 03:54:20 pm
Nope, but ditching the MBP for a windows based version. As I have to use C1 a iPad is no alternative...


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Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Endeavour on October 28, 2016, 04:08:25 pm
pro users are increasingly niche to Apple and to a certain extent MS too.

if you aren't doing intensive tasks, i.e. just regular office work - then a new surface is viable as a complete desktop replacement

Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Farmer on October 28, 2016, 05:57:19 pm
They might be niche to MS - I'm not sure - but they're definitely being targeted.

https://youtu.be/BzMLA8YIgG0

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-studio/tech-specs

Add to that the new Surface Book and the expected updates to the Surface Pro - that's extraordinarily high end specs for a non-pro user and they are poignantly not that great for gaming (you can, but it's not a key experience) which is a nice that might otherwise be prepared to play in that price range.

Yes, it's a start - it's an iMac on steroids for want of a better description, and that's not the not the same as  Mac Pro, for example, but the Surface Book 100% targets the MacBook Pro.

MS has had great success with Surface and they also benefit from the closed architecture that Apple has had for so long as a major plus for OS X (Windows biggest problem has always been trying to support all the third party hardware out there - something it does remarkably well overall excluding certain releases we all know about).

If Surface Studio has any real level of success, you can expect them to look at even higher spec hardware that would be in the Mac Pro space.

So, yeah, it may or may not be niche, but it's definitely targeted by them and I think more so that Apple currently.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Benny Profane on October 28, 2016, 07:45:48 pm
A good rant.

https://medium.com/charged-tech/apple-just-told-the-world-it-has-no-idea-who-the-mac-is-for-722a2438389b#.jb65en6fh

I predicted something like this would happen after they threw dirt on Jobs. That man was special, one of a kind. I wake up today in the bizarro world where Microsoft releases the more exciting desk PC. Sigh. Enjoy your IPhones, but, you can't do Photoshop on one of those things. Well, a little, but, don't show me.

Btw, I despise this IPad I'm typing on right now. If somebody puts a nice Android tablet in my hands at a fair price, I'll switch. I only use it to surf, basically, but it can't even do that effectively 20% of the time.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Chris_Brown on October 28, 2016, 08:09:45 pm
. . . I predicted something like this would happen after they threw dirt on Jobs. That man was special, one of a kind. I wake up today in the bizarro world where Microsoft releases the more exciting desk PC. Sigh.   .. . . . .

+1

Last winter, one of my sons bought a quad-core i7 Lenovo. With 16GB RAM, 500GB SSD, touch screen, USB 3.0. New. $954USD. I can't get a used Macbook for that price.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Wayne Fox on October 28, 2016, 09:58:58 pm
Graphics card is a pretty big boost, especially if you opt for the top card.  System memory operates at over 10% increased speed, and SSD speed is up to 100% faster.  There's a lot more to speed than the CPU clock speed.  Certainly depends on the types of applications you are running ... I don't do video, but it seems this machine would handle 4K video editing better than the current one ... maybe even all video editing.  Raided SSD external storage with Thunderbolt3 speeds would make external storage access amazing fast.

The new display sounds like the new increased gamut is substantial enough to be interesting, not sure how well it translates to higher end image work. Won't compete with a nice high end NEC, but maybe more useful than the current one.

 The display bar is intriguing, but of course the usability will depend on how well the programs you use leverage it. I hate trying to remember what function key does what, so it would amazing if Photoshop actions assigned as a function key showed up in the bar with the name.  I think it could be very useful and cool if the applications leverage it's functionality.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: davidgp on October 29, 2016, 08:45:33 am
Graphics card is a pretty big boost, especially if you opt for the top card.  System memory operates at over 10% increased speed, and SSD speed is up to 100% faster.  There's a lot more to speed than the CPU clock speed.  Certainly depends on the types of applications you are running ... I don't do video, but it seems this machine would handle 4K video editing better than the current one ... maybe even all video editing.  Raided SSD external storage with Thunderbolt3 speeds would make external storage access amazing fast.

The new display sounds like the new increased gamut is substantial enough to be interesting, not sure how well it translates to higher end image work. Won't compete with a nice high end NEC, but maybe more useful than the current one.

 The display bar is intriguing, but of course the usability will depend on how well the programs you use leverage it. I hate trying to remember what function key does what, so it would amazing if Photoshop actions assigned as a function key showed up in the bar with the name.  I think it could be very useful and cool if the applications leverage it's functionality.


Yes, from a technical perspective the upgrade is quite good... and reading ars technical analysis, http://arstechnica.com/apple/2016/10/15-hours-with-the-13-macbook-pro-and-how-apples-t1-bridges-arm-and-intel/ , looks like the touch bar was more complicated to look that one will think... they explain why the ram is only 16gb, but I would give the user the option to sacrifice battery for power...

But creating the event, only present this, without even updating the rest of mac line... looks like something is missing and not going in the direction some people, even me, would like...

Anyway, my MacBook still has three years on it... I don't like the idea of going to windows to use Lightroom... more a unix guy here...


http://dgpfotografia.com
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: owinthomas on October 29, 2016, 09:18:04 am
Add the fact that, for the U.K. at least, Apple has just increased their prices for MBP by around 20%.

Due to downturn in GBP (£) after the Brexit result.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: rdonson on October 29, 2016, 10:11:16 am
Wayne, for me the touchbar is also interesting and perhaps quite useful for its fingerprint capability.  1Password just announced they'd be supporting fingerprint on the new MBP like they do on the newer iPhones and iPads.

Alas, I'm not looking for a new MBP.  This one still has another couple of good years in it unless Adobe pays no attention to RAM consumption with PS and LR.

Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Christopher on October 29, 2016, 11:36:16 am
My problem is the slow graphic card and cpu in the 13in model.

I currently have the 15in and it's just heavy and big. I do t need that big screen and really want something smaller. However, I'm not sure if the smaller mac would handle sorting and checking IQ3100 files with C1. Any opinions?


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Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Kevin Raber on October 29, 2016, 11:37:42 am
I ordered one and will report back in early December.  I'm away in Antarctica until the 30th and it delivers to the store on the 25th.  I know where my first stop will be. 
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Christopher on October 29, 2016, 12:18:32 pm
Did you order a 13in model?


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Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: kers on October 30, 2016, 07:36:45 pm
I was hoping for a rose-gold one  ;)

Then they could call it the macbook blink
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: kers on October 31, 2016, 06:04:14 am
...
I mean, if they say that the audio port is dated technology (which is not) why keep it on the Macbook Pro? And if you want to make everything thunderbolt, why leave the lightning port on the phone?

I agree they are not very consistent...
Like with the iPhone SE without haptic touchscreen- making it different to work with than the other iPhones.
But must say it is typical for Apple to walk upfront with usb-c. In some years they think it will be the ultimate plug for all the devices.
In the past  they dumpt floppy disc/ dumpt DVD/ etc; the lightning connector that for years had only few items that could be attached.
The only difference was ; it was a small company- now they are effecting the use for many more people.
Windows machines always solve that problem by making many many different ports...old and new.
resulting in ugly hardware but convenient to attach to other hardware.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Ken Bennett on October 31, 2016, 06:54:54 am
I understand Apple's motivation wrt the USB-C connector (and with the Lightning connector for audio on the iPhone) -- they can drive the entire industry in that direction given their size and market share, while no single Android maker could do so.

I do not understand the removal of useful ports on a "professional" laptop -- specifically the SD card reader slot and HDMI. I'm also going to seriously miss the mag-safe power connector, considering how many times my laptop didn't fly off the table when I (or someone else) walked past and tripped on the power cable.

If I weren't in serious need of a new computer, I'd wait another year or two. I looked at buying the previous-gen 15 inch MBP, but they've removed the option for the separate video card. Sigh.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: kers on October 31, 2016, 08:52:15 am
I understand Apple's motivation wrt the USB-C connector (and with the Lightning connector for audio on the iPhone) -- they can drive the entire industry in that direction given their size and market share, while no single Android maker could do so.

I do not understand the removal of useful ports on a "professional" laptop -- specifically the SD card reader slot and HDMI. I'm also going to seriously miss the mag-safe power connector, considering how many times my laptop didn't fly off the table when I (or someone else) walked past and tripped on the power cable.

If I weren't in serious need of a new computer, I'd wait another year or two. I looked at buying the previous-gen 15 inch MBP, but they've removed the option for the separate video card. Sigh.

As i understand they changed the placing of the magnetic connector from the laptop to the powersupply; so that end is magnetic and comes loose. Good solution i guess.
In one way they are consistent- the trend to design the mac as clean as possible; a digital core unit that you can use at the heart of any digital output as long as you have the right cable.

Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: N80 on October 31, 2016, 09:01:17 am
I find Apple becoming less and less relevant to me. Aperture was the first big issue. Then dumbing down of its programs like Pages and Numbers. Every year I get closer and closer to jumping ship. And now this MacBook lineup which to me is totally uninspiring and indicative of Apple turning away from actual pros and creatives. (Why do would a pro want to carry around a bag full of (expensive!!!) cables, dongles and adapters? Why would anyone?)

And to put things in perspective, I am a lifelong Apple user. I started with an Apple IIe and have never owned a desktop, laptop or cell phone that was not from Apple. I think when it is time to replace my 2009 MacBook Pro, I very well may be looking elsewhere.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Christopher Sanderson on October 31, 2016, 02:52:05 pm
Oh joy! Look what you may have to buy along with your new MacBook Pro (http://www.macworld.com/article/3136583/macbook-accessories/macbook-pro-thunderbolt-3-adapter-guide-how-to-connect-an-iphone-display-hard-drive-and-more.html)

The author, a senior editor at MacWorld, states in the Comments that he "felt a little ridiculous writing it."
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Chris Kern on October 31, 2016, 03:53:02 pm
they explain why the ram is only 16gb, but I would give the user the option to sacrifice battery for power...

The memory limit was a disappointment to me, as well.  I do most of my post-processing on a 2013 Mac Pro with 64 GB of memory, and its performance running Lightroom and Photoshop (and launching Photoshop from Lightroom) is excellent.  Although demand-paging is fast on a solid-state drive, my experience is that the amount of primary memory is the most important factor in determining the subjective speed of a platform for image-editing.  I was prepared to invest in a new laptop to replace my obsolescent Macbook Air, but I think I'll skip this cycle.

Quote
I don't like the idea of going to windows to use Lightroom... more a unix guy here...

True for me, as well.  Nothing against MS Windows, per se — Microsoft has finally turned it into a quite credible single-user operating system — but I'd wind up banging my head against a wall whenever I wanted to automate something.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Chris_Brown on October 31, 2016, 04:34:11 pm
Oh joy! Look what you may have to buy along with your new MacBook Pro (http://www.macworld.com/article/3136583/macbook-accessories/macbook-pro-thunderbolt-3-adapter-guide-how-to-connect-an-iphone-display-hard-drive-and-more.html)

And on that page is a link to this nice laptop: http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-systems/razer-blade-pro
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Dan Wells on October 31, 2016, 07:13:18 pm
I am disappointed by the dongle-for-everything design. As a photography teacher at a university and a landscape photographer, I would be looking at a minimum of three unavoidable dongles (no, a new cable wouldn't fix any of them - I'm not counting my own external drives, which I COULD re-case or re-cable). One of them is actually a DOUBLE dongle to replace a function built in to my current MBP... I'm defining a dongle as "anything that has an additional connection point to fail", and a double dongle as "an abomination that generates two additional connection points"

From least to most annoying:

1.) HDMI. For years, Apple used only non-standard video ports, then they finally got this one right on the Retina. We have a few old projectors around my university that DO require a VGA dongle, but I can usually beg a classroom that has an HDMI-capable projector for image review, because our decent-resolution projectors also tend to be HDMI compatible. Right now, I plug in a single cable with no extra connector to come loose - this machine would step me back to a few years ago, when the dongle inevitably came out while we looked at some poor student's images...

2.) USB. Even if I updated all my personal drives (I'm adept with a screwdriver, and re-casing my portables would only be a minor pain - desktop drives and the printer could be handled dongle-free with a new cable), I'd still have to use a dongle to read students' USB memory sticks! It will be several years before double-ended memory sticks with standard USB-A and USB-C are common, and longer still before they're ubiquitous. I suspect it'll be the best part of a decade before "freebie" memory sticks, which students love to hand me, are USB-C. I know double-ended memory sticks exist, but they're expensive enough that I don't want to hand them out when I may not get them back, and I certainly can't require students to hand them to ME...

3.) SD!!!! Not only is the SD reader missing, B+H doesn't even stock a small, direct connect USB-C reader (they do for Micro SD, but not full size SD). The options are either a larger cable-connected  reader ( 2 extra connection points - card to reader to cable to computer) or a small USB 3 reader attached to a dongle (2 extra connection points - card to reader to dongle to computer). A double dongle for a daily function is COMPLETELY unacceptable. Yes, we'll probably see a compact USB-C reader for SD (and CF) before too long, bringing it down to a single dongle, but it'll be a hard to get reader for a while - carry a backup unless you're shooting in NYC on a day that B+H is open. Conventional USB SD card readers are drugstore items, and it'll be a while until USB-C readers are.

I own the immediate previous model (bought refurbished a few months ago), and I have the same RAM, a CPU that is within 10%, a SSD that is as large as you can get on the new one without paying over $4000 (and I suspect OWC will do a 2 TB upgrade for my machine within 6 months, which I WOULD consider - the Samsung SSD exists). My GPU is 50% slower, and I'm missing some screen gamut, but I have a machine that works with everything. By the time of my NEXT Mac, I suspect USB-C will be more palatable, and I hope Apple reintroduces the card reader...

Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: kers on November 01, 2016, 05:58:00 am
There is already a long list of phones using USB-C connectivity, while the new iPhone is still using the proprietary Lightning Connector. IMO that doesn't sound like walking upfront to me.

Yes, not clear why they did not use USB-C  - o
Seems they are a bit off focus spending too much time and money on making Cars, Televisions and spaceship offices ...
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Ken Bennett on November 01, 2016, 09:48:27 am
Here is a direct connect USB-C card reader for SD cards. (http://www.apple.com/us_edu_465251/shop/product/HKR62ZM/A/sandisk-extreme-pro-sd-uhs-ii-card-usb-c-reader?fnode=8b) Yes, it's expensive and yet one more thing to have to buy several of. I'll probably get two or three.

For use in the studio, I am going to buy the Lexar card reader hub which holds 4 card readers of various types (SD, CF, etc.). Each reader is capable of only USB-3 speeds, but the hub connects with a Thunderbolt 2 cable, which should mean that I can use all four readers at the same time without the MASSIVE slowdowns I experience now with multiple USB3 readers. Yes, I will need a dongle to connect the Thunderbot-2 to the USB-C on the laptop. Not great - it would be nice to find an actual cable that connected both (like those FW400-to-FW800 that were popular the last time Apple changed the ports on the Macbook Pro).

Our Mac support tech guy suggests that the true improvement in processing power on the new MBP is significant -- it's a much later generation i7 processor, and the RAM is much faster; he expects a 100-140% improvement in raw processing speed over the 2015 MBP. Heck, I would take half that, considering I am replacing a 4.5 year old Macbook Air. I would certainly not be buying a new Macbook Pro if I had a recent model.

Totally agree on the removal of the HDMI and the SD card ports. In five years, I might be able to walk into a classroom and find a projector with a USB-C cable -- but then my new Mac will have eliminated the USB-C ports in favor of the new USB-X standard. :(


Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Christopher Sanderson on November 01, 2016, 09:51:55 am
....Our Mac support tech guy suggests that the true improvement in processing power on the new MBP is significant -- it's a much later generation i7 processor, and the RAM is much faster; he expects a 100-140% improvement in raw processing speed over the 2015 MBP.

Love to get some independent verification of this since that would obviously be quite significant for those of us doing rendering & compression of visual files
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: N80 on November 01, 2016, 03:48:13 pm
Recent Google news headline "Is New Mac Book Pro Fastest Laptop On the Planet?"

Of course, the answer could be "no".

I didn't click the link since I have no plans to get one. Yawn.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: kers on November 01, 2016, 05:28:48 pm
Just went to the Apple-shop to help a friend choose a new laptop.

In the end he choose the 'old' 13 inch macbook pro.
He writes a lot and did not like the keyboard of the new one. ( the macbook keyboard is worse even)
Also he likes to plug in an usb cable in without hassle.

The cheapest new macbook pro costs 1700 € in Holland (incl VAT)
if you plug in the power - it has only 1 USB-C port left!



Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Farmer on November 01, 2016, 07:33:30 pm
Love to get some independent verification of this since that would obviously be quite significant for those of us doing rendering & compression of visual files

Subject to being able to process it in RAM, yes, otherwise the bottleneck will be storage media (be it SSD or whatever).  There is no doubt, Chris, that current RAM and processor power (and GPU where applicable), simply through architecture improvements, will provide a significant boost.  However, the bandied figures are at maximum bandwidth and throughput, something that you rarely if ever achieve for very long.  Real world improvements are going to be far more modest, even if you avoid having to access storage media.

This is applicable to all platforms, of course.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Kevin Raber on November 01, 2016, 08:26:51 pm
I have ordered a new MacBook Pro and it will arrive late November.  I'll pick it up on Dec 1st when I am back from Antarctica and will share my experiences.  I committed sin today though and visited a Microsoft store in the same shopping center as the Apple store.  Not a soul in the store.  I did have a helpful sales guy show me the new Surface desktop.  Pretty impressive but it wouldn't work for him a few times during the demo as he tried to show me the puck gadget and pen.    Sometimes we can get wowed by the cool looks.  In the end, the machine has to work.  By the way, the Apple store just quadrupled in size here in Indianapolis and it was still packed.  I think I'll do a rant on my experiences.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: NancyP on November 01, 2016, 08:41:13 pm
I hope to visit the Apple store and see one for myself. Yes, it is beyond stupid that the iPhone 7 and the new MBP won't connect without an extra dongle not provided as standard in either the phone or the MBP. And dealing with all my FireWire backup drives - gaah. I will need a number of cords just to duplicate the current set-up (belonging to a mid-2010 MBP). Yes, eventually you will see some new monitors, external drives (FireWire and other), SD/CF readers, direct ethernet connectors, etc native to the new ports.

Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Stephen Scharf on November 05, 2016, 03:38:31 pm
I just received a brand new "just discontinued" Apple MacBook Pro Retina Display 15.4-Inch Laptop with Intel Quad-Core i7 2.8GHz, 1TB Flash Storage, 16GB DDR3 Memory, AMD Radeon R9. I ordered it the night the new MBPs debuted on the 27th, and I'm pleased to have gotten one as they were already off the Apple and B&H web sites as discontinued. I moved three years of images from my current MBP onto an external T-bolt HD, freed up 600 GB of space, and migrated my remaining docs and over the new Macbook via Migration Assistant last night. Worked seamlessly. Migration Assistant is one of the few really good applications that Apple has not f**ked up of late (unlike iTunes and the Podcast app).

To those considering getting a new one should view this real-world "review" by repair guru Lou Rossman of the Rossman Repair Group. He shows how simply connecting a USB microscope (that is not recording video, merely connected) via a USB-A to USB-C adapter slows down the computer to the point where it will not load web pages...at all.

He also demonstrates using a 3-port "dongle" with HDMI port causing the output video to flicker really badly at all resolutions when connecting an HDMI cable to a display. Last, the same adapter does not provide enough power to drive a 2.5" USB SATA laptop hard drive. So much for power over USB-C.

Well worth a look, at least for the first half-hour.

Caveat emptor....

New Macbook Pro can't walk and chew gum at the same time.... (https://youtu.be/NYVjIjBMx6o)

Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: kers on November 05, 2016, 03:51:46 pm
...Yes, it is beyond stupid that the iPhone 7 and the new MBP won't connect without an extra dongle not provided as standard in either the phone or the MBP. ...
:)
Yes, it is such a big company one division hardly communicates with the other...

In a reaction Apple has put down the prices of some cords... Till 2017.
Making it the ideal christmas gift ;)
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Stephen Scharf on November 05, 2016, 04:18:29 pm
:)
Yes, it is such a big company one division hardly communicates with the other...

In a reaction Apple has put down the prices of some cords... Till 2017.
Making it the ideal christmas gift;)

The whole situation is absolutely ridiculous. The current consensus among long-time Apple users is that Apple has completely given up caring about what customers actually want, or as many have pointed out here, the needs of pro photographers, videographers and graphics artists that comprised its professional base for many years. Watching the Apple Special Event, it was clear that the top guys at Apple....Cook, Federighi, Schiller and Ives are in love with themselves and completely inward-focused. Or, to put it simply, they all have their heads up their *ss.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: degrub on November 05, 2016, 08:03:40 pm
Apple marginalized itself the last time Steve left the company.....
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: rdonson on November 05, 2016, 08:20:59 pm
The whole situation is absolutely ridiculous. The current consensus among long-time Apple users is that Apple has completely given up caring about what customers actually want, or as many have pointed out here, the needs of pro photographers, videographers and graphics artists that comprised its professional base for many years. Watching the Apple Special Event, it was clear that the top guys at Apple....Cook, Federighi, Schiller and Ives are in love with themselves and completely inward-focused. Or, to put it simply, they all have their heads up their *ss.

Really?  Are you an Apple customer or simply channeling others thoughts?  How is Apple failing the creative market?

Myself, I'm happy with Apple.  I'm not enamored with the constant claims of thinner/lighter on the MacBook Pros but my retina MacBook Pro is a solid machine. 

They're typically are ahead of the curve on many tech standards in their products.  I look forward to 1Q17 and the Kaby Lake desktops.  Thunderbolt 3, USB C,  is the way forward for me.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Chris_Brown on November 06, 2016, 09:04:08 am
 ;D ;D

https://youtu.be/-XSC_UG5_kU
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: landscapephoto on November 06, 2016, 10:18:47 am
What I would like to know is whether the new Macbooks support the firewire adapter. I am dependent on firewire for tethering my camera. At present, I use a thunderbolt to firewire adapter on a macbook air. Does somebody know whether the usb/TB3 to TB2 adapter will allow to connect the TB to firewire adapter?
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Leszek Piotrowski on November 06, 2016, 03:26:57 pm
Chris,....  thanks for the link,... got my laugh for the day.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: rdonson on November 06, 2016, 08:15:48 pm
What I would like to know is whether the new Macbooks support the firewire adapter. I am dependent on firewire for tethering my camera. At present, I use a thunderbolt to firewire adapter on a macbook air. Does somebody know whether the usb/TB3 to TB2 adapter will allow to connect the TB to firewire adapter?

http://www.apple.com/search/Thunderbolt-to-Firewire-Adapter?src=alp

Note:  That's the old Thunderbolt port NOT the USB-C
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: landscapephoto on November 07, 2016, 01:35:39 am
http://www.apple.com/search/Thunderbolt-to-Firewire-Adapter?src=alp

Note:  That's the old Thunderbolt port NOT the USB-C

I already have this adapter. The question is whether it works on the TB3 to TB2 adapter on the new laptops.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: SZRitter on November 07, 2016, 11:29:10 am
I think something to keep in mind, is the "Pro" base they are going after may not be the graphic arts anymore. With a large web developers and almost all app developers going to Apple, this is probably the single biggest "Pro" market.

Also, my bet on the loss of the SD card slot was to prevent people from buying smaller HDD configurations and using the SD card slot to work as a second HDD. I do it on one of my ultrabooks, and it works decently well.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: rdonson on November 07, 2016, 11:56:17 am
I already have this adapter. The question is whether it works on the TB3 to TB2 adapter on the new laptops.

This is the best device I've seen so far.

https://eshop.macsales.com/preorder/owc-thunderbolt-3-dock/

There's a good chance Caldigit may offer something similar as well but it's not announced. I have 2 Caldigit Thunderbolt stations and they've been rock solid for me.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: landscapephoto on November 07, 2016, 12:45:35 pm
This is the best device I've seen so far.

https://eshop.macsales.com/preorder/owc-thunderbolt-3-dock/

There's a good chance Caldigit may offer something similar as well but it's not announced. I have 2 Caldigit Thunderbolt stations and they've been rock solid for me.

Thank you. Good to know that somebody is designing a TB3 hub with firewire.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: elliot_n on November 07, 2016, 12:58:44 pm
Thank you. Good to know that somebody is designing a TB3 hub with firewire.

But no TB1/TB2.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: E.J. Peiker on November 07, 2016, 05:28:54 pm
New Apple slogan in the vein of "there's an app for that":

...there's a dongle for that  :P
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Stephen Scharf on November 07, 2016, 11:44:34 pm
Really?  Are you an Apple customer or simply channeling others thoughts?  How is Apple failing the creative market?

Myself, I'm happy with Apple.  I'm not enamored with the constant claims of thinner/lighter on the MacBook Pros but my retina MacBook Pro is a solid machine. 

They're typically are ahead of the curve on many tech standards in their products.  I look forward to 1Q17 and the Kaby Lake desktops.  Thunderbolt 3, USB C,  is the way forward for me.

I've been an Apple customer since 1988, and I honestly feel that they have forgotten about customers and are completely wrapped in themselves internally with how "cool" they think they are. I say this as a "Voice of the Customer" professional who feels Apple has lost its way.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Stephen Scharf on November 07, 2016, 11:47:21 pm
I think something to keep in mind, is the "Pro" base they are going after may not be the graphic arts anymore. With a large web developers and almost all app developers going to Apple, this is probably the single biggest "Pro" market.

Also, my bet on the loss of the SD card slot was to prevent people from buying smaller HDD configurations and using the SD card slot to work as a second HDD. I do it on one of my ultrabooks, and it works decently well.

Possible, but from what I've read, the developers are pretty unhappy about not having an Escape key.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Stephen Scharf on November 07, 2016, 11:49:41 pm
I already have this adapter. The question is whether it works on the TB3 to TB2 adapter on the new laptops.

So, you're saying you think you will need an adapter for an adapter to connect your Firewire device? If so, I feel for you...this should not be necessary.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Stephen Scharf on November 08, 2016, 12:09:07 am
This is the best device I've seen so far.

https://eshop.macsales.com/preorder/owc-thunderbolt-3-dock/

There's a good chance Caldigit may offer something similar as well but it's not announced. I have 2 Caldigit Thunderbolt stations and they've been rock solid for me.

This would be fine except for two things 1) it's really only convenient when using the MBP as a "desktop" computer; its too big to be convenient for portable use; it also probably weighs at least a pound, and would be too heavy to transport around and 2) it's missing Thunderbolt 2 ports.

Here's an interesting statement by Steve Foksett as quoted on The Verge: "Consider a simple USB-C HDMI adapter: It could implement HDMI over USB 3.0 or it could use Alternate Mode (native) HDMI. It could also use HDMI “multiplexed” with Thunderbolt Alternate Mode or even (theoretically) implement HDMI over Thunderbolt using an off-board graphics chip! Of these options, only the newest computers, like the MacBook Pro, would support all three. Can you imagine the consumer confusion when they purchase a “USB-C HDMI adapter” only to find that it doesn’t work with their MacBook or Pixel or whatever?"

Good grief.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: davidgp on November 08, 2016, 01:02:00 am
Possible, but from what I've read, the developers are pretty unhappy about not having an Escape key.

Escape key is a minor thing... I'm a developer, the 16 GB limit it is what it really worries me.

But I think the problem are not the dongles or specifically the ram limit, it is the sensation Apple is creating to the PRO community... being developers, photographers, videographers... etc. It is that they don't care too mucha about us...

Long periods between updates... an even that... the last Mac Pro, many videographers were not really happy with it... the Mac mini is already forgotten, the iMac has not been updated this year... not even a minor spec bump... and then the stellar upgrade of the MacBook Pro is just a touch bar... with a worst keyboard (that it is important for developers) and limited RAM (I am sure that if they upgraded to Kaby Lake next year that problem will go away... if you can wait for the upgrade)

And Apple has a past... many remember that they were forgotten when they stopped doing Aperture to focus on Photos... not just a Pro application... many are still piss with the moving from Final Cut to Final Cut X... and many, because of the previous things, have already move to non Apple apps...

And I think that it is a problem for Apple... because if you are not tied to their apps... and people think they are not doing powerful machines to perform their work, with regret they can jump ship...




http://dgpfotografia.com
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Stephen Scharf on November 08, 2016, 01:06:57 am
Escape key is a minor thing... I'm a developer, the 16 GB limit it is what it really worries me.

Right with you on that one.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: landscapephoto on November 08, 2016, 02:24:42 am
So, you're saying you think you will need an adapter for an adapter to connect your Firewire device? If so, I feel for you...this should not be necessary.

Frankly, it is not that much of a problem if it works. The adapters are simple short pieces of cable.

And firewire support is not much better in the windows world. I am not aware of a recent windows notebook with firewire support either. The only solution I know is using an expresscard and these are becoming less and less common.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: rdonson on November 08, 2016, 09:21:37 am
A quote from Apple's Phil Schiller

“To put more than 16GB of fast RAM into a notebook design at this time would require a memory system that consumes much more power and wouldn’t be efficient enough for a notebook.”

Note: "FAST RAM" suggests they were unwilling to compromise at this time on slower RAM

Lots of speculation out there that this will be remedied in 2017 with new components but if you have to buy a MacBook Pro now and you require more than 16 GB RAM you're SOL
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: SZRitter on November 08, 2016, 09:48:58 am
Possible, but from what I've read, the developers are pretty unhappy about not having an Escape key.

I'm a developer also, and never have used the escape key. I think it depends on your IDE/Environment.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: NancyP on November 08, 2016, 05:43:01 pm
Re: FireWire: I have the same issues. I don't mind buying a new set of drives, but I have to get the stuff transferred from the legacy drives. See lloyd chambers blog https://macperformanceguide.com/ for a post about FW (yep, I am the culprit asking him that question).
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: landscapephoto on November 09, 2016, 02:05:22 am
Re: FireWire: I have the same issues. I don't mind buying a new set of drives, but I have to get the stuff transferred from the legacy drives. See lloyd chambers blog https://macperformanceguide.com/ for a post about FW (yep, I am the culprit asking him that question).

Why not buy the new set of USB drives now and copy the old drives to the new drives with your present computer?

I don't need firewire for drives, BTW, but for a camera. New MF cameras were sold with firewire for tethering as late as 2015.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: NancyP on November 16, 2016, 05:05:59 pm
Thanks, landscape. D'oh to me.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: rdonson on November 16, 2016, 06:06:37 pm
https://www.owcdigital.com/products/thunderbolt/thunderbolt-3-dock-overview
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: NancyP on November 21, 2016, 01:46:23 pm
Available starting February 2017, says OWC....
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: N80 on November 21, 2016, 05:48:23 pm
I know Apple wants the product to be sleek and light. I'd rather have it larger and more versatile.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: scyth on November 21, 2016, 06:28:02 pm
I know Apple wants the product to be sleek and light. I'd rather have it larger and more versatile.

PC & Hackintosh are your friends then... you can have a Xeon, desktop-class chipset and dual GPU of GTX1080M class notebook as a desktop replacement, but alas it won't work in Starbucks
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Craig Lamson on November 21, 2016, 07:48:22 pm
PC & Hackintosh are your friends then... you can have a Xeon, desktop-class chipset and dual GPU of GTX1080M class notebook as a desktop replacement, but alas it won't work in Starbucks

Gotta love those Hacks.....
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Endeavour on November 21, 2016, 08:14:01 pm
hackintosh are always fun to play with, but rarely a business critical solution.

there is always something which doesnt work, usually wireless or sound
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Craig Lamson on November 21, 2016, 09:11:45 pm
hackintosh are always fun to play with, but rarely a business critical solution.

there is always something which doesnt work, usually wireless or sound

Absolutely untrue.   I've had more than one and they have never let me down as a full time production machine. 
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Endeavour on November 22, 2016, 10:17:30 am
Absolutely untrue.   I've had more than one and they have never let me down as a full time production machine.

maybe you are the rarity
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Craig Lamson on November 22, 2016, 12:01:32 pm
maybe you are the rarity

Spend some time at TonyMac.   Lots of people sucsessfully running hacks professionally.  The key is to specify the proper equipment.  I recently made the upgrade to Sierra with zero problems and glitches. 

Now, if Apple decides to finally upgrade the Mac Pro ( and I'm not really a fan of the form factor) I may finally ditch the hack and become all Apple.  I own a mountain of Apple, from Watches, to iOS, multi retina MacBook Pros and even a couple of I7 quad hot rod Mac Minis.  I would prefer a workstation option from Apple that fit my needs but Apple has chosen not to supply it. 
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Endeavour on November 22, 2016, 12:49:24 pm
Spend some time at TonyMac.   Lots of people sucsessfully running hacks professionally.  The key is to specify the proper equipment.  I recently made the upgrade to Sierra with zero problems and glitches. 

Now, if Apple decides to finally upgrade the Mac Pro ( and I'm not really a fan of the form factor) I may finally ditch the hack and become all Apple.  I own a mountain of Apple, from Watches, to iOS, multi retina MacBook Pros and even a couple of I7 quad hot rod Mac Minis.  I would prefer a workstation option from Apple that fit my needs but Apple has chosen not to supply it.

we were talking about laptops/macbooks though - not speccing up custom workstation hardware.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: scyth on November 22, 2016, 01:00:52 pm
hackintosh are always fun to play with, but rarely a business critical solution.

there is always something which doesnt work, usually wireless or sound

always means during the setup... and if you don't do the homework before buying or can't buy with the card you need the you can have them through USB... and please do not call mac notebooks "business critical solution" either :) - they are as "business critical solution" as you the owner
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Craig Lamson on November 22, 2016, 01:43:20 pm
we were talking about laptops/macbooks though - not speccing up custom workstation hardware.

Thats correct.  I've never tried but again plenty of people make hack laptops.  Sound and wifi are only a usb port away....
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Alex Waugh on November 22, 2016, 10:10:55 pm
Im thinking about getting the new 13" with 2.9ghz dual core i7 & 16gb of ram for day to day work. Probably hook it up to one of the fancy HP screens for color critical scenarios. I'd spring for the 15" but it starts at 4k AUD base model with 16gb ram and its not in my budget. I've considered moving to windows (Dell XPS) but it would be a pain and i like OSX. The only camera i shoot these days is my Olympus EM1 (soon to be mk II). Will i be able to zip through m43 20mpx files on the 13"? I probably have around 5-10 layers on serious work images in PSCC.

If the 13 is good enough for those files its all i need, if not - windows time.

EDIT: Good lord i was somehow on the US site when i was looking at the 13. Its actually $3000 for a dual core i5 and 16gb ram/256SSD. Gosh......
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: vampire on November 23, 2016, 07:51:41 pm
The price difference once you get into the high end version of the 13" isn't that big a difference. Both computers, the 13" and 15" fully spec'd out (with the 1TB SSD) only has a difference of about $600 USD. The Apple stores are starting to get some in stock, I got lucky and found one by just walking in the other day. Now I have to get all the adapters, RAID setup, etc. The expense really adds up quickly coming from the old Mac Pro Tower.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: graeme on November 24, 2016, 10:55:16 am
The price difference once you get into the high end version of the 13" isn't that big a difference. Both computers, the 13" and 15" fully spec'd out (with the 1TB SSD) only has a difference of about $600 USD. The Apple stores are starting to get some in stock, I got lucky and found one by just walking in the other day. Now I have to get all the adapters, RAID setup, etc. The expense really adds up quickly coming from the old Mac Pro Tower.

I noticed that a couple of years ago: a 13" with extra memory, upgraded SSD, processor etc will be almost as expensive as the 15". Go for the 15" if it's your only computer for image editing.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: orc73 on November 26, 2016, 03:23:22 am
if you shoot tethered and/or use external usb disk and/or use external monitors don't go for the usb-c only models.
They have problems with the adapter as well as with native usb-c connections.
spread the word
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: N80 on November 27, 2016, 05:37:28 pm
if you shoot tethered and/or use external usb disk and/or use external monitors don't go for the usb-c only models.
They have problems with the adapter as well as with native usb-c connections.
spread the word

Wow. Never in my life have I considered a Windows computer. Now I am.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: orc73 on November 28, 2016, 01:28:06 am
yes checking the windows options now as well.
If it's just firmware, then there is hope they can fix it. Looks like tha latest mbp also have problems reported already.
Some links here:
https://discussions.apple.com/message/31023707?ac_cid=tw123456#31023707
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/266823-usb-c-tether-issues-with-sl/
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: NancyP on November 28, 2016, 05:31:50 pm
So. Disappointed.
I tried to get a maxed-out 15" MBP from the mid 2015 lot - gone. I suppose that I might try to keep the mid-2010 going until someone actually makes a functional model. Maybe windows....
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: N80 on November 28, 2016, 06:13:58 pm
I think now more than ever Apple has lost its way.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Chris_Brown on November 28, 2016, 10:08:42 pm
Apple's future died with Steve Jobs.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: rdonson on November 28, 2016, 10:51:19 pm
Yep, sell all your Apple stock and gear.  The end is nigh.  Microsoft shall rule all.   :P
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: N80 on November 29, 2016, 09:01:48 am
Yep, sell all your Apple stock and gear.  The end is nigh.  Microsoft shall rule all.   :P

As one who started with an Apple IIe (before the Macintosh), hung with Apple when their stock was $12 and has never owned a Windows computer I do not think I qualify as a Chicken Little. Yet I am no fanboy and do qualify as a savvy consumer. I'll buy the brand and gear that fits my needs. Since 1983 that has been Apple. In 2017 it may not.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Chris_Brown on November 29, 2016, 09:32:28 am
Microsoft shall rule all.

I'm rootin' for Linux.   8)
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: BrownBear on November 29, 2016, 10:36:30 am
I gratefully switched to Apple with the advent of the IIe as well, and have never seen a need to switch. Still don't.

I have found one thing that bugs heck out of me about the 13" MacBook Air I bought in April. It might help explain the USB3 instability issues I'm hearing about.  BOTH USB fittings on the machine are loose. It takes very little to partially dislodge a cord. I've tried replacements cords, both aftermarket and Apple, and they're all lose. Clearly it's the fittings on the Air rather than bad cords. There's no way I can use my Air for tethered shooting, short of a big old wad of duct tape to stabilize the cords.

Worse yet, every time a cord jiggles a little, Apple's accursed Photos program relaunches. If I buy another Apple, it will include a single-click option in System Preferences to shut of Photos. For me it's a downright rude imposition on users, and outside the "spirit" of Mac.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: rdonson on November 29, 2016, 10:48:00 am
George, I agree.  Everyone should seek out the gear that fits their need. 

I'm holding out for a new iMac with Kaby Lake to replace my 2011 iMac.  I'm not in dire need of a new MacBook Pro.  My mid 2012 RMBP currently meets my needs but I'm sure towards the end of 2017 I'll be looking to replace it. 

All this said, I don't think Apple has lost its way.   At least not yet.  They're a different company from the other personal computer makers and Microsoft.

I'm in a good position to be patient and I'm confident that both iMacs and MBPs will be upgraded to Kaby Lake processors in 2017 and there will be improvements.   Will they ditch USB-C connectors?  That seems unlikely.  For connectivity I currently use CalDigit Thunderbolt Stations on both machines.  I'd be surprised if CalDigit didn't see an opportunity for a Thunderbolt Station that supports Thunderbolt 3 and USB-C connections.

Personally, I have no desire to return to the realm of Windows machines. 
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: rdonson on November 29, 2016, 10:51:48 am
I gratefully switched to Apple with the advent of the IIe as well, and have never seen a need to switch. Still don't.

I have found one thing that bugs heck out of me about the 13" MacBook Air I bought in April. It might help explain the USB3 instability issues I'm hearing about.  BOTH USB fittings on the machine are loose. It takes very little to partially dislodge a cord. I've tried replacements cords, both aftermarket and Apple, and they're all lose. Clearly it's the fittings on the Air rather than bad cords. There's no way I can use my Air for tethered shooting, short of a big old wad of duct tape to stabilize the cords.

Worse yet, every time a cord jiggles a little, Apple's accursed Photos program relaunches. If I buy another Apple, it will include a single-click option in System Preferences to shut of Photos. For me it's a downright rude imposition on users, and outside the "spirit" of Mac.

Have you taken the MB Air back to an Apple Store?

It's not too difficult to neuter Photos on a Mac

http://www.idownloadblog.com/2015/12/28/how-to-stop-photos-mac-auto-launch/
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: E.J. Peiker on November 29, 2016, 11:20:54 am

It's not too difficult to neuter Photos on a Mac

http://www.idownloadblog.com/2015/12/28/how-to-stop-photos-mac-auto-launch/
That only works until you format the card, then you have to do it again.  Every time you format a card, Apple interprets it as a completely new device.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: N80 on November 29, 2016, 11:28:46 am
That only works until you format the card, then you have to do it again.  Every time you format a card, Apple interprets it as a completely new device - just one of many really badly flawed things in the Apple universe over the last couple of years.

Agreed. A disturbing trend of our-way-or-the-highway. Each iOS upgrade seems to give less and less choice. I want to turn all app sounds off. Can't. Don't want the clock background black. Too bad. Etc. etc. etc. Apps like Pages dumbed down to work across all devices. Aperture abandoned. Hardware that no longer captures my imagination. Feeling regret over my recent iMac purchase. I did not do enough research. My bad.

So I stick by my assessment that Apple has lost its way. That does not mean they can't find it again. They've been lost plenty of times before. But right now I do not get the impression that they still care about Macintosh. I know they do not care about the serious photographer or pro. And the last two iPhones (6&7) have been underwhelming.

What will be the 'next great thing'? I don't know. I would like for the next great thing to be Apple not assuming I'm just another fanboy/conspicuous consumer.

I have worked with Windows computers most of my working life. I don't like them. Quality seems hard to find. But I'm assuming you can find a well made Windows based laptop with more than one kind of port.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: NancyP on November 29, 2016, 11:36:21 am
I am hoping that my mid-2010 MBP hangs on for another year or so. Maybe I will find a refurbished mid-2015 MBP 16G with Radeon graphics chip. After I read the review by digilloyd, I went looking for a new mid2015 MBP with maxed out specs, all gone!Maybe the next iteration of the MBP USB-C (or operating system) will fix the stupidity and apparent poor performance, and by late 2017-2018, there should be plenty of peripherals without incompatibilities. Why o why didn't Apple think to make it easy to physically connect the new iPhone and the new MBP? Am I the only one who doesn't keep everything in the cloud? It is really discouraging to see that the new MBP does not seem to perform as well as the old MBP 2013 in Photoshop rendition speed per digilloyd/MPG. Apparently there are some good features in the new MBP, one of the very intriguing possibilities being possible external battery use, and hopefully that will be worked out - good for off-grid work.

As for neutering Photos, I have become accustomed to just quitting Photos on each launch - 1 action.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: rdonson on November 29, 2016, 11:39:11 am
Scroll down for the global solution to Photos on the Mac.  This is what I did when Photos came out and it's worked like a champ.  As with all trips to TERMINAL make sure you enter things exactly as shown

https://havecamerawilltravel.com/photographer/prevent-photos-app-mac-osx
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: davidgp on November 30, 2016, 02:44:23 am
I'm in a good position to be patient and I'm confident that both iMacs and MBPs will be upgraded to Kaby Lake processors in 2017 and there will be improvements.   Will they ditch USB-C connectors?  That seems unlikely.  For connectivity I currently use CalDigit Thunderbolt Stations on both machines.  I'd be surprised if CalDigit didn't see an opportunity for a Thunderbolt Station that supports Thunderbolt 3 and USB-C connections.


OWC already released a thunderbolt 3/usb-c station... I'm quite sure CalDigit, Belkin and others will follow closely...



http://dgpfotografia.com
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: N80 on November 30, 2016, 10:05:04 am

OWC already released a thunderbolt 3/usb-c station... I'm quite sure CalDigit, Belkin and others will follow closely...



http://dgpfotografia.com

Right. Pay top dollar for a sleek Apple laptop. Spend more money on a brick to make it functional.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: NancyP on November 30, 2016, 10:16:25 am
Well, it all depends. If I upgraded every year or two, I would be using a PC. The 3 Mac laptops I have owned have lasted the 6 to 7 years between upgrades and were "retired" in working condition. The PC laptops at work tend to be more fragile.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: N80 on November 30, 2016, 10:32:04 am
Agreed. I have gone through 3 Dell laptops in 9 months at work. Junk. My first MacBook only lasted 4 years. But my current MacBook Pro is a 2008 and runs Capture One 9 reasonably fast. So I can't complain.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: rdonson on November 30, 2016, 10:56:25 am
An interesting post that may allay some fears....  Kaby Lake likely to come to MBP lineup

http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/11/30/kaby-lake-suitable-for-macbook-pro-said-to-debut-at-januarys-consumer-electronics-show
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: kers on November 30, 2016, 11:36:35 am
An interesting post that may allay some fears....  Kaby Lake likely to come to MBP lineup

http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/11/30/kaby-lake-suitable-for-macbook-pro-said-to-debut-at-januarys-consumer-electronics-show

indeed, maybe it is better to wait before buying this 2016 Macbookpro...

Kaby Lake features the same CPU core and performance per MHz as Skylake. Features specific to Kaby Lake include:

Increased clock speeds across all CPUs models (increased by up to 300 MHz)
Faster clock speed changes
Improved 14 nm manufacturing process
Improved graphics core
200 series chipset (Union Point) on socket 1151
Up to 16 PCI Express 3.0 lanes from the CPU, 24 PCI Express 3.0 lanes from PCH
Support for Intel Optane Technology


OPTANE technology appears to be very interesting if we believe Intel...

http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/architecture-and-technology/non-volatile-memory.html?wapkw=optane

Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Hans Kruse on November 30, 2016, 12:33:46 pm
I got the 2016 MBP and here are my impressions so far:

Better display with higher color gamut which shows side by side with a 2015 MBP (both calibrated using Spyder 4).
The speakers are much improved. 
The fingerprint scanner is nice to have like on an iPhone.
Smaller form factor and lighter which is nice.
New touch bar is really nice and I look forward to more apps supporting it.
USB and thunderbolt dongles have worked without problems with USB drives, thunderbolt drives and USB hub.
My Dell 32" 4K monitor did not work via the thunderbolt adapter, but the Apple thunderbolt display does. So now I use an HDMI adapter for the Dell. This is only a short term solution anyway as I want to order the 5K LG monitor as soon as it can be ordered in Denmark. The HDMI adapter will be needed for my projector on my workshops.
I'm moving to a USB-C only environment soon anyway. The dongles were needed to make the transition and all worked without any issues.

My previous MBP was the 2015 15" 2,9Ghz 1TB SSD model. The 2016 is the 2,7Ghz Radeon Pro 4GB GPU and 1TB SSD.

Using Lightroom there are some significant differences. When generating 1:1 previews on the 2015 model and on the 2016 model, the performance was 23:05 minutes on the 2015 and 3:25 minutes longer for 262 files (5Ds R and D810 in a mix). The 2015 MBP started the fan at full speed almost immediately and continued for the entire generation. The 2016 MBP was quiet all the way through. Slower due to the slower clock speed and some other factor which is unknown to me. In general the 2016 MBP is very quiet. It will start the fan when editing in Lightroom, but stops again quickly. The performance is snappy when editing 50MP 5Ds R files (I ordered the biggest GPU because of Lightroom rather than the faster CPU). So a very nice difference to the 2015 MBP where the fan noise had annoyed me. It will be remained to be seen what difference getting the 5K monitor will make relative to the 4K monitor.

It is not because of general performance that an upgrade to the 2016 MBP makes sense. It is all the other factors mentioned. I really like that Apple took the step to USB-C for all ports. They are so much nicer than the old fashioned USB plugs. The LG 5K monitor will drive everything including charging through a single cable! I have ordered one new desktop drive and one portable drive USB-C. I needed more space anyway. The older drives will be backup drives.

I don't think a 2015 15" MBP instead of the 2016 MBP is a good choice!

All in all I cannot see the downside of the 2016 MBP. It is a very nice laptop and in my case it is my only machine. I think Apple did an excellent job on this one.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: NancyP on November 30, 2016, 01:34:57 pm
There's some rumor that the late 2017 MBP will have a 32 G RAM option. Unclear if Kaby Lake lower power chip will be available for Apple until fall.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Hans Kruse on November 30, 2016, 04:51:08 pm
There's some rumor that the late 2017 MBP will have a 32 G RAM option. Unclear if Kaby Lake lower power chip will be available for Apple until fall.

I don't see that Lightroom will benefit significantly from more RAM than 16GB. One can always wait, but if what you have now is great, then why wait?
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: rdonson on November 30, 2016, 09:10:21 pm
I don't see that Lightroom will benefit significantly from more RAM than 16GB. One can always wait, but if what you have now is great, then why wait?

Many photogs get by just fine with 16GB RAM.  Those who create very large files, 2GB or larger with loads of layers are likely to want more.  My wife finds 40GB RAM with her new iMac to be just about right.  ;)

Those working on video production can't seem to get enough RAM.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: davidgp on December 01, 2016, 02:52:28 am
Many photogs get by just fine with 16GB RAM.  Those who create very large files, 2GB or larger with loads of layers are likely to want more.  My wife finds 40GB RAM with her new iMac to be just about right.  ;)

Those working on video production can't seem to get enough RAM.


For me it is not just that today I'm ok with 16GB of RAM... That I'm... But I use my laptops for 5 years... Will be ok LR or whatever other software in 3 to 5 years with 16GB of RAM?

About Kaby Lake processors... The equivalent ones that Apple likes for laptops will be released beginning next year. They will support LPDDR4 type of memory... And in configurations higher than 16GB... The actual skylake chips that Apple uses also supported more than 16GB of RAM but using DDR4 memory... That consumes a bit more of energy and Apple does not like that...

That does not mean that Apple will update the processors... Apple is Apple... For example, Mac Pro is already several processor generations behind...


http://dgpfotografia.com
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Hans Kruse on December 01, 2016, 05:15:59 am

For me it is not just that today I'm ok with 16GB of RAM... That I'm... But I use my laptops for 5 years... Will be ok LR or whatever other software in 3 to 5 years with 16GB of RAM?

About Kaby Lake processors... The equivalent ones that Apple likes for laptops will be released beginning next year. They will support LPDDR4 type of memory... And in configurations higher than 16GB... The actual skylake chips that Apple uses also supported more than 16GB of RAM but using DDR4 memory... That consumes a bit more of energy and Apple does not like that...

That does not mean that Apple will update the processors... Apple is Apple... For example, Mac Pro is already several processor generations behind...


http://dgpfotografia.com

I checked memory usage running mail, safari with 20 tabs, Photoshop opening 20 50MP 5Ds R files as layers and Lightroom generating 1:1 previews all at the same time. While opening the many 5Ds R files there was a brief memory pressure indicated by the Activity Monitor. Afterwards Lightroom was using 4GB memory and Photoshop 8,5GB and no memory pressure was reported any more. I never use that many layers in Photoshop that would take up as much space as this and the file size was about 8GB. It is hard to look 5 years out in the future for sure, but I wouldn't worry about the 16GB as a photographer doing stills. Video I'm not into so can't comment on this. Resolution of cameras does not go up that fast. 8 years ago I got the Canon 1Ds III which was 21MP and now I have the 5Ds R at 50MP so in 5 years we may have 80MP which will not make a huge difference.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: davidgp on December 01, 2016, 05:45:39 am
It is not just the resolution... The programs and OS evolve... and they use more memory to do same thing at the same time...

Personally, although for photography it may be ok for me, since I also do software development and some video editing I like to be in the safe side of things


http://dgpfotografia.com
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: N80 on December 01, 2016, 09:18:05 am
Just got my 4th new Dell laptop due to failures and flaws. Two screws on the back fell out.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Hans Kruse on December 01, 2016, 11:56:47 am
It is not just the resolution... The programs and OS evolve... and they use more memory to do same thing at the same time...

Personally, although for photography it may be ok for me, since I also do software development and some video editing I like to be in the safe side of things


http://dgpfotografia.com

Yes agreed. I only mentioned one aspect which of course does affect performance very significantly. Looking 5 years back  and to my next monitor (LG 5K for the MBP) the screen resolution goes 4x in resolution from what I used 5 years ago. So that is major too. Will that have changed in 5 years from now? We could already be at 8K at the time and the current MBP would not support that. In terms of software I think Lightroom with current functionality will work as well 5 years from now as now, but the big question is, what new functionality will we get for editing images especially and how that will impact requirements. Personally I use the MBP as my only machine and for my business, so I upgrade whenever I feel it justified for what I do, but for many others it is not like this. The same goes for my cameras. 

Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: NancyP on December 01, 2016, 01:25:50 pm
Well, I will go look at the new MBP soon. I tend to max out all specs and use a laptop for 6 to 7 years. I am on year 6 of my current non-Retina MBP, and have not upgraded to a high-MP camera, still working with 20 MP files. The one time my computer really coughs is with ginormous panorama merges, that's with 8 G RAM and ~20 20MP images. So 16 G RAM should be fine for me for now. So whenever I get around to upgrading, I will have a real shock, what with move to Retina, vast improvement in speed of everything, ....
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: N80 on December 01, 2016, 02:40:44 pm
Retina vs non-Retina is huge. I have come to regret a good bit of the post-processing I've done over the years on my non-Retina MBP.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Chris D on December 02, 2016, 08:12:45 am
So I just bought my first PC ever.  Like most people I was incredibly underwhelmed with the recent mbp updates, so stated looking at non-mac options, and have to say there is a lot of cool stuff out there for photographers and creatives.  I started with the surfaces, but they don't really seem powerful enough for anything other than very basic editing or tethering, and have a small gamut screen.  This let me to the vaio z canvas, which has an incredible screen(95% aRGB), but gen 4 chipset, and a screen that is slightly too small(15in would be perfect).  I finally found the dell precision mobile's and ordered one this week when it was on sale.  64gb ram max, 2 hd bays and a full aRGB coverage screen were the main selling points.  It also has 3 years of pro support with next day on site repair, so no more need to waste time at the genus bar...

I'm still a bit in shock that I'm going to be using a pc, but it's become abundantly clear that apple doesn't want my business anymore...  why don't they have high gamut monitors? laptops like the surface books where you can use a stylus on screen? multiple hd options? aRGB instead of P3? more ram? etc? 

The great thing about the advent of cloud computing is that I can go back and forth depending on who releases the best devices.  I can just deactivate adobe cc and capture one on a mac, and activate on a pc, or vice versa.  The only issue is data storage, and that's something I'm trying to figure out.  It looks like there are at least a few good options to have external hd's and a raid available for both mac and pc's. 

I don't really care who makes my computer, just that it works and makes my workflow faster and easier, and at this point apple isn't doing that...
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: rdonson on December 02, 2016, 10:57:25 am

...  why don't they have high gamut monitors?...  aRGB instead of P3?


Do you have concerns with P3 as a color space?  Its pretty common for digital cinema projection.

http://www.astramael.com/
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Chris D on December 02, 2016, 11:58:50 am
Do you have concerns with P3 as a color space?  Its pretty common for digital cinema projection.

http://www.astramael.com/


Of course - aRGB is standard for still images. aRGB is and has always been the standard - just another example of apple fixing what's not broken!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: scyth on December 02, 2016, 04:56:01 pm
The great thing about the advent of cloud computing is that I can go back and forth depending on who releases the best devices.  I can just deactivate adobe cc and capture one on a mac, and activate on a pc, or vice versa.

this is nothing to do with a cloud though... it is a simple remote activation/deactivation of your licenses... cloud here is nothing more but marketing plug.

Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: rdonson on December 02, 2016, 05:18:51 pm

Of course - aRGB is standard for still images. aRGB is and has always been the standard - just another example of apple fixing what's not broken!

Other than P3 not being a still image standard what problem do you have with the color space itself?  I've not heard of anyone complaining about P3 negatively affecting their still photography.

Kind seems like Apple trying to be inclusive for the video producers.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Chris D on December 02, 2016, 05:58:33 pm
this is nothing to do with a cloud though... it is a simple remote activation/deactivation of your licenses... cloud here is nothing more but marketing plug.

I guess I mis-typed.  What I mean is that it's not like the old days where you buy a copy of photoshop that either works on PC or Mac... You can just download whatever version you need.

Other than P3 not being a still image standard what problem do you have with the color space itself?  I've not heard of anyone complaining about P3 negatively affecting their still photography.

Kind seems like Apple trying to be inclusive for the video producers.

I don't have anything against the color space itself, just that it's not a current standard.  As far as I know(and this is a bit beyond my immediate knowledge) most video editors use NEC and eizo monitors that are aRGB monitors. 

I deliver images in aRGB and then they are converted to cmyk(which is tiny of course) for press.  Using wide gamut aRGB monitors has greatly simplified my workflow.  It's removed all the guesswork and having to get to know your monitor... it's wysiwyg.  Having that in a laptop display so I can not just start but get into the nitty gritty of grading and tweaking files in C1 on the road is a game changer.  When the entire world is calibrated for aRGB, P3 isn't a help.

If P3 were the standard, then of course I'd think that apple(and everyone else) should be using it...  They're all very usable spaces, so I don't care what the standard is.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Hans Kruse on December 03, 2016, 03:45:08 pm
There is one thing I noticed on the new MBP 15" and that is that the default scaling is 1680x1050 which means that it is not scaling 1:1 to the native resolution of the display which is 2880x1800. The correct scaling is 1440x900 which will map one image pixel to a screen pixel when you zoom into images 1:1. Previous MBP's had 1440x900 as the default scaling. When I get my 5K display the scaling need to be 2560x1440.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Hans Kruse on December 06, 2016, 04:22:04 pm
One reason for slightly slower performance of the 2016 MBP is the turboboost is lower on the maxed out 2016 BP than the maxed out 2015 model. 2016: 2.9Ghz and turbo boost 3.8Ghz and 2015 was 2.8Ghz and turbo boost 4.0Ghz.This guy has some more details on the differences https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHYmtgik1iY&t=958s
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: softite on December 08, 2016, 09:36:00 am
Ok, so first of all I would like to recommend taking the MacBook pro because they're the most advanced computers, and yes, definitely get a mac they are the best laptops/computers out there.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Christopher on December 10, 2016, 03:11:58 am
I would say the nicest or have the best case and great display. But the best? What is the best? They certainly aren't the fastest.

In regards to desktop computers, I would never consider a slow and expensive mac. It would just be a frustration and a waste of money.

I think the current laptop models are great. I probably still wait for their hardware upgrade in 17.


Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: NancyP on December 13, 2016, 01:15:59 pm
I got a decent deal on a factory refurbished mid-2015 top-of-line 15" MBP, so I now have money ready for that Canon 24mm tilt shift lens, also refurbished ...
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Chris_Brown on December 13, 2016, 07:39:31 pm
I got a decent deal on a factory refurbished mid-2015 top-of-line 15" MBP, so I now have money ready for that Canon 24mm tilt shift lens, also refurbished ...

I'm with ya. I just bought a 2011 17" MBP (the last year they were made), with matte screen, quad-i7, 16GB RAM, 500GB SSD, with a few dents for less than $1k. Now my "legacy" core-2 duo can be recycled. The speed bump is gladly noticeable. Since it's used on location, and not for post production, it should last me another few years.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: NancyP on December 13, 2016, 08:29:26 pm
Those giant 17" MBPs were nice.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: kers on December 14, 2016, 04:30:39 am
Those giant 17" MBPs were nice.
and if you put an SSD and some RAM in it they are very fast...more than fast enough.
you will only miss USB3
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: N80 on December 23, 2016, 11:36:37 am
Nothing about these new MBPs appeals to me at this point. Seems like a box of gimmicks with real world application completely neglected.

Consumer Reports (http://money.cnn.com/2016/12/23/technology/consumer-reports-macbook-pro/index.html)
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Hans Kruse on December 27, 2016, 08:13:47 am
Nothing about these new MBPs appeals to me at this point. Seems like a box of gimmicks with real world application completely neglected.

Consumer Reports (http://money.cnn.com/2016/12/23/technology/consumer-reports-macbook-pro/index.html)

I have now used the 15" MBP 2016 for about a month and despite the move to TB3/USB-C which has annoyed many I don't see this as an issue. I really like to 4 identical ports rather then 2 different types. The touch bar is not supported by all applications yet but is quite nice. I'm waiting to have this on an external keyboard as well. The screen is great and the sound system is much better than than previously. By far the best feature for me is how quiet it runs compared to the 2015 model when editing photos. Battery life is reported to be inconsistent. I have not been running mine a lot off the power supply but has not noticed any real life difference from the old one. I don't see any gimmicks here and I think when the battery issue is resolved or explained and the people have over come the transiton to USB-C all will love this laptop.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: rdonson on January 10, 2017, 01:03:05 pm
http://www.consumerreports.org/apple/apple-releases-fix-to-macbook-pros-in-response-to-consumer-reports-battery-test-results/
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: N80 on January 10, 2017, 03:35:36 pm
I saw that. No big deal of course. But it still seems like getting a Ferrari and finding that brakes don't work right. With top dollar comes top expectation.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Hans Kruse on January 11, 2017, 09:11:36 am
http://www.consumerreports.org/apple/apple-releases-fix-to-macbook-pros-in-response-to-consumer-reports-battery-test-results/

I saw that and wondered if my 2016 15" MBP also varied a lot in battery life. Without doing any "scientific tests" I can say that I don't find any really variations in normal use on battery. It can run e.g. Netflix for at least 5-6 hours, which is more than I need :) Lightroom I have not really tested on battery but that would be quite a bit shorter no doubt. Normal web browsing and e-mail would no doubt be longer, but have been testing this. So far I have not seen the OS fix mentioned.

I had the 2015 model before and I can say that for my use the 2016 is a significant improvement over the old one. The screen is a significant improvement and the fan noise is much less than old one. I like the tb3/usb-c setup and the smaller form factor and weight. All in all from me a thumbs up for the 2016 MBP which for me makes a desktop unnecessary. I was close to buying an iMac 5K and going through the pain of having two machines because of the fan noise on the old MBP 2015, but I put it off as I hoped the new one would have that problem solved. I did also not choose the fastest cpu option which I had on the 2015 and this was no doubt a contributing factor to the noise and a mistake on my part to take that.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: N80 on January 11, 2017, 10:45:16 am
I have found that fan noise increases with the age of the laptop in general. Not sure why. Dust build up, certainly. Maybe additional strain from increasingly demanding OS and software as time goes by.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: NancyP on January 11, 2017, 05:38:32 pm
My 2010 MBP got sufficiently warm to induce sweat when used on the lap, and fan was on 100% of time. I use one of those plastic laptop stands with a built-in fan powered by USB.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Hans Kruse on January 12, 2017, 05:50:29 am
My 2010 MBP got sufficiently warm to induce sweat when used on the lap, and fan was on 100% of time. I use one of those plastic laptop stands with a built-in fan powered by USB.

The old MBP's were dual core and they produced a lot of heat. The newer quad core models differed and one parameter is definitely what I said, but it was a bit difficult to judge since Lightroom started to used the GPU about the time when I switched from the 2014 model to the 2015 model and I suspected the GPU also produced a lot of heat. I have an app running that shows the temperature of the CPU cores and the GPU and on my 2015 model the GPU always came out the hottest immediately when editing in Lightroom. But all in all the new 2016 MBP runs way cooler. The fan still does come on from time to time when Lightroom runs hot in exports, 1:1 preview generation and editing, but much less than before which means for me that I have stopped my thoughts about getting a desktop to avoid the noise, which drives me crazy ;)
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: Hans Kruse on January 13, 2017, 05:16:12 am
http://www.consumerreports.org/apple/apple-releases-fix-to-macbook-pros-in-response-to-consumer-reports-battery-test-results/

This is now fixed http://www.macrumors.com/2017/01/12/consumer-reports-recommends-new-macbook-pro/ and it was a Safari (rare) bug that caused the testing issue.
Title: Re: Apple laptops
Post by: N80 on January 13, 2017, 08:25:04 am
Again, Ferrari price, Dodge issues.