Luminous Landscape Forum

Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: Digi-T on April 06, 2006, 06:39:05 pm

Title: Uncurling roll paper
Post by: Digi-T on April 06, 2006, 06:39:05 pm
Does anyone have any tips or suggestions on uncurling roll paper after it has been printed on? I like using this type of paper but trying to flatten it out so I can work with the prints easier is a pain in the butt. My methods of laying something big and heavy on the prints is only partially effective. I'm not too worried about prints that I matt and frame because the matt and frame takes care of the curling but it is the prints that I sell unmatted that I am concerned about. I don't see the customer being too pleased trying to handle and view a print that has a curl to it. Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

Tim
Title: Uncurling roll paper
Post by: eleanorbrown on April 06, 2006, 07:23:36 pm
Quote
Does anyone have any tips or suggestions on uncurling roll paper after it has been printed on? I like using this type of paper but trying to flatten it out so I can work with the prints easier is a pain in the butt. My methods of laying something big and heavy on the prints is only partially effective. I'm not too worried about prints that I matt and frame because the matt and frame takes care of the curling but it is the prints that I sell unmatted that I am concerned about. I don't see the customer being too pleased trying to handle and view a print that has a curl to it. Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

Tim
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=62043\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


get a D Roller from inkjetart.com or shadesofpaper.com.  works very well. I use mine daily. eleanor
Title: Uncurling roll paper
Post by: Digi-T on April 06, 2006, 07:36:08 pm
Quote
get a D Roller from inkjetart.com or shadesofpaper.com.  works very well. I use mine daily. eleanor
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=62046\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks for the link. It looks like a great system but I guess it should be at that price.    Maybe I will try to amke my own version of that roller, since I can't afford that kind of money just yet.

T
Title: Uncurling roll paper
Post by: Tim Gray on April 06, 2006, 07:36:54 pm
I've made my own and it works fine...
Title: Uncurling roll paper
Post by: kbolin on April 06, 2006, 08:46:23 pm
Great tip and I too will be making my own... why not if you can save $260 and put that torwards some other piece of photography gear.  
Title: Uncurling roll paper
Post by: mdijb on April 07, 2006, 04:56:34 pm
Quote
Great tip and I too will be making my own... why not if you can save $260 and put that torwards some other piece of photography gear.   
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=62056\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I also made my own easily using a 3" mailing tube and insert the print between two sheets of acid free paper and it works well.

MDIJB
Title: Uncurling roll paper
Post by: Dale_Cotton on April 07, 2006, 05:58:37 pm
MDIJB: alternate approach: go to a cloth store, buy 3 yards of heavy canvas, tape one end of the canvas to the 3" tube, roll a yard of the canvas around the tube, insert prints, roll the rest of the canvas around prints and tube, allow to set.  

Courtesy Greg E., DFA (http://www.dfaprinting.com/).
Title: Uncurling roll paper
Post by: photopat on March 06, 2007, 02:41:23 am
Since I realised that its going to be hard to get my favorite papers in 17"x25 cut sheets.

I have done alot of searching on the web on this subject ,and I have tried alot of designs of (my own made) "d-rollers".
But whatever I do I fail at this.

Especially with Innovas new FibaPrint Ultra Smooth Gloss 285 gms (http://www.innovaart.com/news.php) which I really love.

All designs are based on 3" tubes and I always end upp with some dents on the paper  where the beginning of the paper meets the surface  of the paper when rolled.( these new glossy fine art papers are really sensitive ).

I also have to leave the paper in the deroller for over 2 1/2 h to get it flat enough to print through my 3800.

But not flat enough for selling unmatted prints.

Does anybody have experience with uncurling Crane's silver Rag and Innovas glossy Fine art papers that can give me some advice on how to handle the curl on these papers ?

Thanks Patrick.
Title: Uncurling roll paper
Post by: Brian Gilkes on March 06, 2007, 05:49:03 am
I find Crane papers  usually flatten OK if left for a while. Higher humidity helps. I do notice that narrower rolls have more problems but I am mainly using 44". Back rolling on a 3" core works but you have to be very careful of paper will kink. I use acid free tissue on the paper and on the core as I roll too.
Hahnemuele papers seem to flatten a little more easily and have no experience with Innova. Crane papers have up to 6 coats to stop penetration and hold the ink. That makes them stiff and contributes to their roll inertia. The old photo papers were worse.
Cheers,
Brian
www.pharoseditions.com.au
Title: Uncurling roll paper
Post by: picnic on March 06, 2007, 10:45:23 am
Quote
Since I realised that its going to be hard to get my favorite papers in 17"x25 cut sheets.

I have done alot of searching on the web on this subject ,and I have tried alot of designs of (my own made) "d-rollers".
But whatever I do I fail at this.

Especially with Innovas new FibaPrint Ultra Smooth Gloss 285 gms (http://www.innovaart.com/news.php) which I really love.

All designs are based on 3" tubes and I always end upp with some dents on the paper  where the beginning of the paper meets the surface  of the paper when rolled.( these new glossy fine art papers are really sensitive ).

I also have to leave the paper in the deroller for over 2 1/2 h to get it flat enough to print through my 3800.

But not flat enough for selling unmatted prints.

Does anybody have experience with uncurling Crane's silver Rag and Innovas glossy Fine art papers that can give me some advice on how to handle the curl on these papers ?

Thanks Patrick.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=104958\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I wondered about that.  I was going to buy the Innova also--and I use my own homemade roller which works fine for luster paper.  I had reservations about the heavier weight papers.  Consequently I am either not going to buy the Innova or will buy the 17 x 22 sheets and crop in camera to 4 x 5 format for future prints--and cut the 17 x 22 to the other sizes I need.  I am seriously thinking of buying one of the Hawk's Mt. 17 x 25 Condor (natural w/o OBA or Britewhite) fine art paper.  Its a lovely paper--priced well.  In the past I've used HPR or Epson FAV for up to 13 x 19.  I just don't think that I will use the D roller enough to warrant that cost so will just adjust to 16 x 20 prints if I go to the Innova Semimatte (which I like a lot).

Diane
Title: Uncurling roll paper
Post by: photopat on March 06, 2007, 01:01:13 pm
Picnic wrote:
Quote
I was going to buy the Innova also--and I use my own homemade roller which works fine for luster paper. I had reservations about the heavier weight papers. Consequently I am either not going to buy the Innova or will buy the 17 x 22 sheets and crop in camera to 4 x 5 format for future prints--and cut the 17 x 22 to the other sizes I need.
The semi good thig is that Innova sell their papers in European standard sizes  in Europe ( where I live).
So the paper is avaliable in A2 (420mmx594mm or 16,5"x 23,4"). But then I can "only print  aprox 15"x22,5" if I want no crop of the image ( instead of my desiered 16"x24" )

So I guess It's almost the size I want...I just want the 17"x25"  size

I have made a new design of my deroller and are trying it atm...but I guess the  paper need to be in it atleast 3h to uncurl enough..quite a timeconsuming operation...and I have a hard time thinking a De-roller from Bienfang would do it any faster...( since I belive they have a 3" roll aswell )

Brian Gilkes wrote:
Quote
The old photo papers were worse.
Yea but Then you just put them in a  ( dont know the english word) heat press for a couple of min and they where fine
Title: Uncurling roll paper
Post by: richardhagen on January 12, 2008, 12:17:48 am
Keeping my prints flat is driving me to distraction. I've also tried to use a couple of home-made thigamagigs - but to no avail. So, I think I'm going to spring for the Bienfang D-Roller.

I use Hahnemuhle 24" roll paper. Which model D-Roller would be appropriate for rolls of this width? I assume I would use the 24" wide model.

Any further thoughts or comments (other than the fact that it is very $$) on the use. quality, or whatever of this product?

Richard
Title: Uncurling roll paper
Post by: Gary Brook on January 12, 2008, 05:41:40 am
Hi all,

for the last couple of years I've been dealing with this simply by reverse rolling the 24" rolls that I have bought and leaving them to take a new set for a couple of weeks.  After that I simply roll them out and cut to length, usually 18x24, and they stay flat.  I have used this with HP Premium Plus Photo Stain/Gloss and Epson Premium Lustre 260 successfully over several rolls.  5 days doesn't seem to be enough and fouir weeks or longer just creates a reverse curl version of the original problem.  Don't know how you'd go with HPR 308 or similar but it works for me and is cheaper than buying a d-roller or whatever.  Cheers,

Gary.
Title: Uncurling roll paper
Post by: Craig Murphy on January 12, 2008, 10:22:30 am
I put prints in my vacu-press.  Four minutes, 180 degrees.  Flattens anything.
Title: Uncurling roll paper
Post by: JesseSpeer on January 12, 2008, 11:07:30 am
Richard, I use the 24" D-roller for my 24" roll papers (Photo Rag, Ultrasmooth FA). It's a perfect match. Flat prints in less than a minute, with no hassle, no paper markings, no worries, etc. (due to the materials and design used). Considering what it does for me, it was one of my best gear purchases last year.

Shades of Paper also offers a nice discount on roll paper if you buy a D-roller.
Title: Uncurling roll paper
Post by: richardhagen on January 12, 2008, 12:19:26 pm
At least in my case, I think it pays to get the d-roller. I'm tired of using makeshift solutions that take long to work - if it works at all - and is "messy" and time consuming to use. Thank you JesseSpeer for confirming my thoughts on size and the buying tip re: Shades of Paper.

Richard
Title: Uncurling roll paper
Post by: rdonson on January 12, 2008, 01:47:56 pm
De-roller for me as well.  Its extremely well made, works all the time and looks like it will outlast me on this planet.
Title: Uncurling roll paper
Post by: neoprinter on January 17, 2008, 09:54:56 pm
D-Roller is a hell of a waste of money, when all you have to use is the end of a roll of cheap paper, like Epson Enhanced Matte (or whatever they're calling it these days).  Also, being rolled up in paper helps to wick the humectant out of the image, which is necessary if you're going to be framing behind glass.
Title: Uncurling roll paper
Post by: rdonson on January 18, 2008, 08:22:29 am
Quote
Also, being rolled up in paper helps to wick the humectant out of the image, which is necessary if you're going to be framing behind glass.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=167898\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I always let my prints dry for a day or two before using the de-roller.
Title: Uncurling roll paper
Post by: Adam L on January 18, 2008, 09:51:31 am
Has anyone tried to use a window blind for this task?  As I watched the video journal demonstration that thought jumped into my head.
Title: Uncurling roll paper
Post by: KeithR on January 18, 2008, 10:22:05 am
Quote
Has anyone tried to use a window blind for this task?  As I watched the video journal demonstration that thought jumped into my head.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=167953\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

If your refering to the pull down shade type, I would think that the diameter would be too small for decurling purposes. Rolling on too small of a diameter might damage the surface. If you'll notice, most derollers(that I've seen) are about 3 inch in diameter.
Title: Uncurling roll paper
Post by: eyebeam on January 18, 2008, 11:10:52 am
There was a similar topic on de-curlers discussed in September 2007. The reference is below

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....9753&hl=eyebeam (http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=19753&hl=eyebeam)

I have used my homemade de-curler on IJA microceramic luster, Epson Luster, Hahn Fine Art Pearl, Hahn Photo Rag with very good results.
Title: Uncurling roll paper
Post by: framah on January 18, 2008, 11:29:54 am
I cut the blind off the tiny tube it is on and attach it onto a 3" tube and it works just fine for any paper art that comes into my shop.
After I roll it up, I put a rubber band around it and put the whole thing into a larger tube and let it set for an hour or so.
Title: Uncurling roll paper
Post by: jdoyle1713 on January 19, 2008, 03:29:33 pm
Well I guess I have seen them all..

Just watch the video that Michael did in his review section on the d-roller. It takes minutes Not Hours no tubes no cutting this and that.. If anyone is going to PMA We will have one in our booth for you to try.

The last time I Checked The carpenter forum nobody was trying to figure out how to make a Hammer..I guess you could use a Rock and bang a nail.

Anyway I understand the expense that is why we do the 50.00 off with a roll of paper deal...if I could get the cost lower I would.

Feel Free to come by our booth at PMA and give it a try

Cheers
Jim Doyle
http://www.shadesofpaper.com (http://www.shadesofpaper.com)
Title: Uncurling roll paper
Post by: JPrimgaard on January 19, 2008, 04:41:20 pm
I took advantage of the $50 off with a roll order from Jim some months back.  

I'm also a do it yourself type of guy.  I have a complete woodshop and make a lot of my own woodshop tools.  But this is one of those tools that I just didn't want to mess around trying to make better what was already well done.  

To each his own, but I like the materials and build quality of the D-Roller and don't want to spend the time and effort required to duplicate.  If your budget is tight that's certainly understandable.  But time is money, and time is shorter for some than money.
Title: Uncurling roll paper
Post by: richardhagen on January 20, 2008, 04:21:57 pm
No one is arguing that the d-roller does the job well and quickly. The problem is the price. There is no question that it is waaaaay too expensive. For artists who don't do volume, it probably doesn't pay to buy this product at that price. You could buy a couple of rolls of paper for that price and find another way to flatten out the paper.

And then there's the question - If you could give $50 off for the d-roller if you buy a roll of paper, why can't you just give the 50 bucks off for the purchase of the d-roller. It's a simple product that doesn't require a bunch of complicated technical support. It just gets shipped out the door.

Richard


Quote
Well I guess I have seen them all..

Just watch the video that Michael did in his review section on the d-roller. It takes minutes Not Hours no tubes no cutting this and that.. If anyone is going to PMA We will have one in our booth for you to try.

The last time I Checked The carpenter forum nobody was trying to figure out how to make a Hammer..I guess you could use a Rock and bang a nail.

Anyway I understand the expense that is why we do the 50.00 off with a roll of paper deal...if I could get the cost lower I would.

Feel Free to come by our booth at PMA and give it a try

Cheers
Jim Doyle
http://www.shadesofpaper.com (http://www.shadesofpaper.com)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=168231\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: Uncurling roll paper
Post by: eyebeam on January 20, 2008, 07:42:52 pm
Whether one selects to purchase a de-curler or make their own is a personal choice. Some prefer to save their money, and enjoy the process and challenge of building one and developing a technique to make it work. Others would prefer not to spend time that way and buy a high quality product.

A do-it-yourself decurler costs less than $20 and a bit of time. To purchase one costs more than 10 times this amount. (The hammer analogy given in a previous post is not quite fair. A hammer does not cost $200). In my case, I built one with the idea that if it did not flatten well and/or was awkward to use, I would purchase one. The one I built works fine. It may not be as easy to use as the commercial version, but just requires a bit more care in the process.

Either way, (build or buy) you can have a de-curler that works effectively and efficiently, and you can end up with a flat sheet of paper with no marks or blemishes from the de-curling process. No-one will be able to distinguish how it was flattened.
Title: Uncurling roll paper
Post by: jdoyle1713 on January 22, 2008, 09:56:13 pm
Hey Richard

fair question..Why Dont I Just give the 50.00 dollars off.. Because If I Did I would Lose Money And depending on the roll one buys I Still do Lose money after Free Shipping, but I am OK with that since I look at a Long term relationship rather than a one time sale.  

And Eyebeam..The Hammer Analogy works..Rock $0 Eastwing 30.00.00 So That looks like about 10x the cost.. LOL

Anyway you are all correct as long as the paper gets flat who cares how it gets there..
Cheers
Jim Doyle
http://www.shadesofpaper.com (http://www.shadesofpaper.com)
Title: Uncurling roll paper
Post by: djgarcia on January 24, 2008, 09:12:36 pm
My solution to the (lack of) 17x25 Hahnemuhle Photo Rag paper problem is 17x24 paper: I buy the 25 sheet box of 36x24, use my matt cutter and end up with 50 perfectly flat (well, almost) 17x24 sheets of HPR for less than $200. Plus you have 25 2x24 strips left over for passport pictures . You can get it from Jim ...