Luminous Landscape Forum

Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: Sheldon N on March 18, 2006, 12:59:43 am

Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: Sheldon N on March 18, 2006, 12:59:43 am
Okay, I know this is off topic rambling, but I really wanted to get this off my chest and this seemed the best place to do it...

I've been a long time avid reader of the Rob Galbraith forums, and found them to be quite informative and entertaining. In particular, the Medium Format Digital forum was IMHO the absolute best forum on the internet, a congregating place for top pro photographers discussing real issues about their art, their gear, and their work.

The two photographers who were among the most prolific posters were Mark Tucker and James Russell. Both are phenomenal photographers, and were always helpful, as well as extremely entertaining. I consider them to be the life blood of that particular forum, since they set the lighthearted tone, and could always speak with authority. Anyhow, as the result of a thread that got off topic, they appear to have both been banned from the forums, along with several others.

This is not meant to critize Rob or Mike, who run a tight ship, but it sure is sad to see them go without a note or explanation. Any posts which appear to have touched on the topic have been censored.

I just wanted to say how bummed I am to have lost my favorite forum, and what was at times easily the best photography related reading on the net.

Moderators feel free to delete this if you like...
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: Sfleming on March 18, 2006, 02:36:45 am
I agree.  I'd go off on a rant here about the utter ridiculousness of such dictatorial hard-line tactics but even this sentence is enough to get me banned over there.  I'm an observant Christian and if anybody might have been offended by the joking that caused the banning and crackdown over there it's me.  However I was not.  If the godless want to make jokes about religion ... let them.  I figure it's worth putting up with some foolishness to get such good input as Tucker and Russel provide.  Galbraith has put his own pectoralis major in the wringer.
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: Ray on March 18, 2006, 07:32:04 am
I've just been looking at a 20 page thread in the MF section of Rob Galbraith's sforum entitled, "Ultimate Image Quality" inspired by Michael's new Linhof/P39/Rodenstock system.

The thread ends with 4 posts deleted by Rob Galbraith. I've no idea what for. But I have to say this thread did not seem to be getting anywhere. My first impression was, 'here's a thousand words with no picture'. In fact there are a couple of links to small jpeg compressed images, showing off the artistic skills of the photographer, but really nothing to do with the subject of the thread.

I have to say it was a rather tedious read which didn't enlighten me much at all on image quality, by which was meant, I assumed, technical image quality.

I'm sure there are many of us who would really like to know what sort of increased quality a system that costs as much as a luxury automobile can deliver.

This thread would have disappointed all such people, I feel.
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: JJP on March 18, 2006, 08:29:40 am
Hopefully, I'm not off topic.
The language really can get out of control quickly.  I've seen it,...as you've all... without a doubt.  It amazes me how something we all love to do  ie..photography...can bring out the worst of verbal assaults.  And so, how can you not respect somebody who runs a tight shift?....more power to Mr Galbraith.

However, after having read all 20 or so replies, I think I'll sit on the fence for this one. (edited March 20th, 06)  
jj
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: Jonathan Wienke on March 18, 2006, 09:47:06 am
I got banned from the Galbraith forums a few years ago for telling a guy (who admitted that he went to sporting events where there was already a contracted photographer for the event, shot photos and attempted to sell them behind the backs of the organizers, and was claiming he had an innate "right" to do so) that he was an unprofessional jerk and the kind of person who gives aspiring newcomers a bad name in the event photography business. Rob has the right to run his forums as he sees fit, but IMO the moderation in his forums throws out the baby with the bathwater in many cases.
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: Ray on March 18, 2006, 06:34:21 pm
Quote
I got banned from the Galbraith forums a few years ago for telling a guy ......[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=60561\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Would that have been around the time you started posting on LL, Jonathan? Welcome back to the forum   .
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: Nigelfrommanchester on March 18, 2006, 06:49:45 pm
I confess that I was also missing the entertainment on the Galbraith forum. There was good information on digital medium format equipment but even more insight into high-end editorial/ fashion photography. It wasn't a dialogue I was qualified to join, but I did enjoy listening.

I certainly tend to take technology for granted, but of you step back a little the whole concept of a web forum is amazing. A bunch of 'like-minded' individuals take the time to share views and information even though most of them will ever meet in person.

Nigel
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: Camdavidson on March 19, 2006, 03:11:46 pm
I was one of the people who had a post deleted.  I wrote a thoughtful and intelligent response to the thread and my concern about James and Mark leaving the forum.  At the time, I did not know that there was a rule stating that you could not post comments about forum posts or the thread.  Rob and I have written since then and I believe all is well.

Rob runs his site tightly - as is his right.  I mentioned that the MF forum was arguably, the best forum for professional photographers due to its honesty, intelligence and vigor.

Mark and James are friends.  I've known Mark  since the nineties.  They gave of themselves to the community because they believed that what they learned about digital would be helpful to others - plus they learned.  The frank and open discussions were a break from pushing pixels and I will miss the conversations.

I try to be an observant Christian. I was not offended by the WWJS comments.  Yes, they got off thread a bit, but the thread came back around and back on track.

I believe that most of what is read in forum postings and how they are understood - has as much to do with the readers frame of mind, as the writers intentions.
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: Sheldon N on March 19, 2006, 09:11:32 pm
I think Cam has summed it up perfectly.

I guess all we can say is that Mark & James (and others) will be missed on the Rob Galbraith forums.
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: ddolde on March 19, 2006, 09:43:23 pm
Gailbraith and company have lost a few great contributors due to their severe lack of humor and Nazi like posture.  

They don't realize that their forum is sucessful BECAUSE of the interesting people who post there.   Otherwise it's just a blank page.

Who needs Gailbraith anyway?  They ban the people who write something useful and knowledgeable then keep the ones who know little or nothing.   I suggest boycotting his forums.

Or better yet send him an honest email about how you see this then quit.
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: James Russell on March 20, 2006, 12:08:15 am
Something good was happening in the Medium Format section of the RG forums.

Real professionals that work on large, pressured projects were sharing.

Technique, style, wants, desires, headaches, humor, even fears were openly discussed.

In my career I have never seen anything like it and I can't begin to explain how rare that is.

To me the forums are a nice way to share, but with no disrespect, any forum is just an empty room until people come in and add value.

The true worth of a forum is the participants and opposite of some, I believe these forums really are a social club.  

It fascinating to me that a photographer in Austin,  Paris or Hong Kong goes through a day that almost exactly parallels mine and it was somewhat reassuring to know that my challenges were not unique.

Maybe a social club is not the right word.  Maybe these forums are a 12 step program.

After all most of us work in a very solitary industry where few people go public about anything.

Concerns of clients, competitors, rumors, or even fear that some camera company will get angry  and not give full support are on everyone's mind the moment they chose to hit the send, or delete button.

Once again, that level of honesty was rare and to some extent brave.

I and others can speculate on the reasons for the banned members, but without knowing what was in someone's mind and heart, any discussion of reason would be pure speculation and unfair.

Still, it was nice to start the morning around the water cooler, talk about something we have in common, have a laugh, maybe solve a problem and then get to work.

As far as that single thread that mentioned Jesus, I didn't originate that thought, but  I am positive that no one involved ever meant any disrespect to anyone's spiritual beliefs.

Actually I am still at a loss as to what the issue was because I didn't know that mentioning Jesus in any part of the western world was forbidden,  but then again that really isn't the point of me writing this.

The reason I am writing this is to thank all the people who I have met, shared with and learned from on the RG forums.

What is important is I made a lot of new friends, reacquainted myself with some old friends and enjoyed myself.

Still, the outcome of my leaving that forum really changes nothing.

Prior to the existence of any forum I freely shared in private and will continue to do what I have always done.

For the record I respect RG's right to run their business in any way they see fit.

Personally, I am uncomfortable with any form of censorship, especially partially edited censorship,  but still respect the right of a private enterprise to go their own direction.

Just as I have the right not to participate and go my own way.

I only look at the RG forum with good thoughts.   I made some lasting friends and in the last few days have received hundreds of e-mails from probably a dozen countries from people I previously shared with.

You can't look at that type of result with any negative thought.

Best,

James Russell
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: Quentin on March 20, 2006, 05:38:13 am
I agree with much of what has been said.   If you allow greater freedom on the forums, you can hardly complain if people use it.

However, instead of going over old ground, I would propose an amnesty, with all cancelled accounts restored.  Otherwise, they will become a sort of knitting circle for people with nothing useful (or controversial) to say.

Quentin
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: Ed Jack on March 20, 2006, 07:48:56 am
Quote
Okay, I know this is off topic rambling, but I really wanted to get this off my chest and this seemed the best place to do it...

I've been a long time avid reader of the Rob Galbraith forums, and found them to be quite informative and entertaining. In particular, the Medium Format Digital forum was IMHO the absolute best forum on the internet, a congregating place for top pro photographers discussing real issues about their art, their gear, and their work.

The two photographers who were among the most prolific posters were Mark Tucker and James Russell. Both are phenomenal photographers, and were always helpful, as well as extremely entertaining. I consider them to be the life blood of that particular forum, since they set the lighthearted tone, and could always speak with authority. Anyhow, as the result of a thread that got off topic, they appear to have both been banned from the forums, along with several others.

This is not meant to critize Rob or Mike, who run a tight ship, but it sure is sad to see them go without a note or explanation. Any posts which appear to have touched on the topic have been censored.

I just wanted to say how bummed I am to have lost my favorite forum, and what was at times easily the best photography related reading on the net.

Moderators feel free to delete this if you like...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=60553\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well there is nothing to stop them posting here.... although I know they have made there own plans with regarsd
to a new forum site for the select - without control freaks sensoring them!

I can not disclose this new site as it wouldn't be fair on MR, this site deserves good posting too!

Ed
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: Ed Jack on March 20, 2006, 07:55:29 am
to a new forum site for the select - without control freaks sensoring them!


Ed
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=60672\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
[/quote]


I just realised I worte sensoring rather than censoring - must have nbeen a freudian slip!  
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: GabiHirit on March 20, 2006, 08:12:39 am
James ,
         I can't tell you how happy I am to see you on-line again ! I hope Mark and others will show up too ! I feel like I found an  dear  old friend !

         I got banned from the RG forum too . Somebody started a thread about what happen with James and Mark and I dared to contribute with the "courageous" phrase "I don't understand either ..."  That's all I have posted about . Being banned just for that  is strange ! ...  I don't know what RG expected from me and others like me ... to pretend I did not  noticed  , or did not care  that the names of  2 of the most important contributors has been silently deleted and replaced by "Anonymous"?  Or to keep my mouth shut fearing of not being deleted ? (The ridiculous "anonymous" was now substituted  by the more decent  "former member" ).
         I was regularly reading the MF section on RG forum and learned a lot .  Thank you Rob Galbraith for that ! But I absolutely agree that any forum is just an empty page  without its contributors  . And yet the forum is about digital photography , the photographers are not digital , they are just people . People have feelings ,  make mistakes , exaggerate , make inappropriate jokes and so on ... photographers get always more or less emotional  when they talk about their tools . What's important is that they share  experience , learn from each other and don't feel isolated . Photography is a solitary profession . These forums can help .  I hope I will read  your posts here  from now on . This forum is a good place  . I am a regular reader of this site too .
         
       
Gabi Hirit
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: Guy Mancuso on March 20, 2006, 09:23:04 am
Morning to all in regards to the RG site i have been banned for over 6 months now and it was for other reasons than political , relgious or any but pure censorship on there part. I bought a DMR in August and ran a huge test against the 1dsMKII and posted my results on RG that the DMR is really showing up the 1dsMKII in many ways. Remember there is no leica thread on the board at the time so anyway I was questioned about my testing from a member I replied and maybe a harsh word or two nothing serious mind you but within minutes I was banned and than my posts were not only censored but edited and left on there with my name and account closed. First and formost i don't belive in censorship and editing of my posts is a crime against my rights maybe not legally but ethical it is. The moderators have no right to do this in any fashion either delete the whole post or leave it alone. So i do not wish them well at all sorry for being not forgiving and loving and all that. the problem with financial advertised sites is running the risk of  upsetting the advertisers on that site. In this case canon a huge supporter of RG, in the case of the MF thread it was Phase One, i can still read the threads but not post. The owner and moderator have taken there own stand to protecting there advertisers and resorted to the old fashion way of running there site by fist instead of using there head. If that is the way they want to run there site than have fun , i will not be part of it when i show a valued test to the difference between 2 camera's that BTW is still going on over at FM that is over 700 pages and is the most in depth review of the DMR on the globe than the lose out on all the folks that have given to that thread. To Mark and James some very good friends of mine , i do feel sorry that they were treated in such a way but given the moderation let's just say i am not surprised on what happened.  Lastly i have no ill will towards anyone but will not partcipate in censorship at all and will never go back to RG to post.
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: dazzajl on March 20, 2006, 11:42:22 am
Just to throw in another 2p's worth (or probably 2 cents to most folks here) from someone who isn't a user of the RG site.

When you use a web forum it's a little like sitting in someones house and having a chat. They will always have the right to ask you to leave, not talk about certain subjects or express certain opinions. This may look like censorship and it may stop people from having a fully open discussion but surely we all know this when we register to post.

When things like this happen and the fallout starts to spill onto other forums it nearly always follows the same pattern. The people involved turn up and say stuff like "Oh well" and "I never meant to cause any bad feelings". Then others turn up and a swell of bad feelings can start to take on a life of it's own. As someone who moderates a forum elsewhere, I know if I was running this site I would be keeping a very close eye on this thread. A forum flame war can easily start from a small spark and ultimately does no-one any good.

It is a shame though when people make friends as part of an online community which then gets fragmented, for whatever reason.
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: Sheldon N on March 20, 2006, 11:56:28 am
I think it's important to watch that this doesn't become a "I got banned, too" or "Isn't Rob a meanie" thread. It's sad that his site lost a wealth of knowledge and experience, but the real issue isn't about how he chooses to moderate his forum.

This needs to be about working towards having our actions create the type of environment that foster open, honest, and insightful communication. That way, it doesn't matter if the conversation is happening at Rob Galbraith, or FM, or here  - but hopefully not an exclusive forum that so many of us would miss out on!  

Mainly, this thread is about expressing appreciation to James, Mark, and all the others who have been living the above.

It's good to see you here James, stop by anytime!
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: Quentin on March 20, 2006, 01:31:07 pm
Surely the point is this.  The good moderator will step in and prevent any conduct of which he or she does not approve before it becomes a major issue.  The occasional gentle warning will normally do the trick.  That way everyone knows where they stand.

In contrast, what seems to have happened on the Galbraith medium format forum is there was an informal relaxation of the rules, and then without any warning there was a sudden tightening, leading to members banned and a general sense of "what the heck is going on all of a sudden?".  Sorry, but that is just bad moderation, and the moderators must take a major share of the blame.  There ought to be an amnesty and better moderation in the future - although I fear the forums may well have been ruined for many.  

Quentin
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: Ed Jack on March 20, 2006, 01:49:29 pm
Quote
As someone who moderates a forum elsewhere, I know if I was running this site I would be keeping a very close eye on this thread. A forum flame war can easily start from a small spark and ultimately does no-one any good.


[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=60692\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yes I think we should all hold are tungues on this matter for the time being... otherwise Michael will have a right old shock when he gets back from the trip he's on at the moment!

He'll probably be faintly embarressed that he's poached all the best photographers from Rob's site without even trying  

Ed
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: peter_c on March 20, 2006, 04:31:58 pm
Quote
Something good was happening in the Medium Format section of the RG forums.

Real professionals that work on large, pressured projects were sharing.

Technique, style, wants, desires, headaches, humor, even fears were openly discussed.

In my career I have never seen anything like it and I can't begin to explain how rare that is.

To me the forums are a nice way to share, but with no disrespect, any forum is just an empty room until people come in and add value.

James Russell
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=60657\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

It was only this morning I realized what had happened. The value I and many others got out of the "rambling" aspect of the forum was invaluable.  Sure there was a ton of techno based knowledge but for me it was more the colour, wit and intangible experiences.  Rare indeed.  I've let the RG mods know I believe their forum is now the poorer, with the many significant departures.
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: RobertJ on March 20, 2006, 06:14:54 pm
Yup, I still post in the RG forums, and have not been banned yet, (I haven't talked about Jesus...yet), but I think the forum is almost useless without James there.  

Another thing, is that every few posts seem to be edited by Rob Galbraith in one way or another.  

Anyway, it's still a great forum, but going downhill, IMO.  I'm waiting for the next James Russell to show up.
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: James Russell on March 21, 2006, 07:17:34 am
edited by James Russell
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: JJP on March 21, 2006, 01:22:08 pm
Quote...James Russell
Quote
To me the forums are a nice way to share, but with no disrespect, any forum is just an empty room until people come in and add value.
One way forum users could add even more value is to police themselves.  What I mean is:  the forum "rules" should be looked after by the owner as is status quo.  However, I'd suggest that each of the forums have an "etiquette" which users would be responsible for moderating.  For example, each user would be given demarite points and if a user wrote something which offended "X" number of users, then that user is gone for a month.  If the same user wrote something which offended "XX" number of users, then your gone for a year.  And if the same user offended "XXX" number of users, then you're toast....permanent gone.  Since the users would be policing themselves, then that would take some of the responsibility away from the forum owner, and so some of what would normally be considered as rules could be placed in the etiquette category.
Of course, none of this means a hill of beans unless the board owner would agree to it.
any yeas?
jj
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: Bobtrips on March 21, 2006, 01:50:31 pm
Quote
Quote...James Russell

One way forum users could add even more value is to police themselves.  What I mean is:  the forum "rules" should be looked after by the owner as is status quo.  However, I'd suggest that each of the forums have an "etiquette" which users would be responsible for moderating.  For example, each user would be given demerit points and if a user wrote something which offended "X" number of users, then that user is gone for a month.  If the same user wrote something which offended "XX" number of users, then your gone for a year.  And if the same user offended "XXX" number of users, then you're toast....permanent gone.  Since the users would be policing themselves, then that would take some of the responsibility away from the forum owner, and so some of what would normally be considered as rules could be placed in the etiquette category.
Of course, none of this means a hill of beans unless the board owner would agree to it.
any yeas?
jj
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=60776\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I think a version of this should work well on most forums.

Tweak the idea a little.  Let the site owner assign more 'weight' to trusted users.  And zero weight to people who cause problems.  

The final decision to ban should probably be left in the hands of the site owner but a system along these lines would largely take the site owner off the hot seat and give the users some feeling of control.
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: BJL on March 21, 2006, 02:28:04 pm
Quote
Quote...James Russell

One way forum users could add even more value is to police themselves... each user would be given demarite points and if a user wrote something which offended "X" number of users, then that user is gone for a month.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=60776\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
One fear is that in some forums, just saying too many nice things about brands other than the market leader offends many forum participants who are blindly loyal to that market leader, and could get one "voted off the forum". As a user of an Olympus DSLR (and Pentax manual focus SLRs and Macintosh computers), I would be fearful of "mob rule".
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: James Russell on March 22, 2006, 12:41:25 am
Quote
One fear is that in some forums, just saying too many nice things about brands other than the market leader offends many forum participants who are blindly loyal to that market leader, and could get one "voted off the forum". As a user of an Olympus DSLR (and Pentax manual focus SLRs and Macintosh computers), I would be fearful of "mob rule".
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=60780\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Of the hundreds of e-mails I have received lately the overriding theme has been about telling the truth.

Everyone that has emailed me has been kind and supportive but something that is repeated numerous times is the number of people that are fearful to publicly post their experiences.

Some just don't like censorship, or would be embarrassed to be banned from a forum.  

Some have heard that if they protest their IP address could be blocked by a forum and they rely on these forums for new thoughts and fixes.

Others are worried about being shouted down by other participants but more than a few are worried about how they will be perceived by the manufacturers.

I won't say they fear manufacturer retribution, (though a few have voiced this), but most are just worried if they complain loudly they will find themselves in the back of the queue for repairs and/or tech assistance.

Valid or not that last point is a concern.

After all digital cameras are expensive and few can wait weeks or months to get a resolve to an issue, so rather than complain, or go public, they just hold their thoughts to themselves, or worse post only positive experiences hoping a manufacturer will notice and  give them better service.

What I believe is needed is a no fear forum where posts can be shared, fears can be put aside.

Lately I have seen proposals of building a forum that is private, or underground, where a select group can share and speak thier mind.

Maybe that's the safest way, but how sad that all that knowledge and experience goes virtually unheard.  

Are we potentially working ourselves into a position where the only information we receive about digital capture is well thought out PR releases?

Still I beleive that from where we are today, vs. where we were a week ago, we are all the poorer.



JR
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: KristerH on March 22, 2006, 02:59:20 am
Quote
Still I beleive that from where we are today, vs. where we were a week ago, we are all the poorer.
JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=60799\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Hi all.

I so much agree with james.

I am a pro photographer who works in the countryside of sweden. My days are spent shooting
ordinary things and ordinary people. There is no one to discuss my work with and I have to
go to camera dealers if I have any questions. Everything that is about practical pro photographer stuff I have to figure out myself .
Then suddenly I found this place on RG forum. Amazing. It was like the best photographers in the world had suddenly decided to build their studio in my small town of sweden. I could stopp by every morning before work and hang out for an hour or so.
There around the coffee table where Mark and James and all the other photographers discussing real world problems. If I had any questions I could ask and they would always answer.

I learned so much in this "cyberstudio".
It became very clear to me a couple of weeks ago when visiting the Hasselblad world tour in Stockholm. I was asking questions and suddenly the pro hasselblad guy sayd.
- Man, you really know what questions to ask. You must be a long time user of MF backs.
I smiled and just thougt  
- No, but I know Mark and James.

So please, dont  hide  this info behind barbed wire and fences.


Reg

Krister Halvars


sorry about my english. it is not my nativ language
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: dazzajl on March 22, 2006, 05:07:34 am
Quote
What I believe is needed is a no fear forum where posts can be shared, fears can be put aside.

I've yet to see any manufacturer bias here, unless I'm missing something. Some people do tend to state views pretty forcefully but I think we're all big enough to deal with that.

And of course setting up a forum is not all that hard to do yourself, if you have a very specific vision you would like to see become a reality. Getting a good user base is the hard bit I guess.
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: JJP on March 22, 2006, 07:25:08 am
Quote by Dazzajl
Quote
And of course setting up a forum is not all that hard to do yourself
Quote by James Russell
Quote
Lately I have seen proposals of building a forum that is private, or underground, where a select group can share and speak thier mind
IMO, it would take major sacrifice, not to mention dollars, expertise & time to set up your own forum.
What we currently have is the cats meow...as long as users respect each other and respect the forum owner's rules....which is not unreasonable.
Take this analogy:  Have you ever seen a camera that did not come with an owner's/operation manual?  Of course not.  And so, even a private or underground forum would have some form of "manual" ie..rules for its users.
jj
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: michael on March 22, 2006, 11:26:43 am
James and all,

I have been offline for the past 8 days, and missed the furor at Galbraith.

It saddens me that it happened. But, I have no desire to jump into that fray at this late date.

What I do wish to do is propose to the medium format community that they are always welcome here. The only constraints that I put on discussions on these forums is that people act like adults, and not engage in either slander or outright stupidity.

If people wish I can also set up private discussion forums that are password protected. It all depends on what people want.

Michael
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: BJL on March 22, 2006, 12:44:29 pm
Quote
The only constraints that I put on discussions on these forums is that people act like adults, and not engage in either slander or outright stupidity.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=60819\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Thanks, and I am glad that you even allow us all a quota of grumpiness and stupidity too!

That approach is all that has ever been needed here. The only thing I might want to add to any forum I use is personal "kill" or "ignore" lists. But at this site, posters who I prefer to ignore are extremely rare, and tend to disappear fairly quickly (whether banned or bored, I do not care.)
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: Wim van Velzen on March 22, 2006, 03:03:33 pm
I have been following the RG mf-back forum and the forum here and learn a lot - even if I won't be able to buy a mf-back within the next two years (or thereabout).

Please, whenever someone makes a private discussion forum on this topic, don't let it be just for the owners of a mf-back, but also for all those who want to go that route in the future!


But why not get this forum here even better? Always enough to talk about What would Michael shoot  
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: digitaldog on March 22, 2006, 04:14:14 pm
Both Jeff Schewe and I were banned. I think I posted several thousand posts (most color management advise). Rob is super political! This may sound like the "grassy knoll conspiracy" theory but I think he's backed money wise for the forums and who knows what else and is far more interested in political motivations backed by the big bucks than anything else. I found it interesting he just wrote a glowing "review" of Aperture 1.1 when I know for a fact no one outside of Apple has a copy. Then I see ads for it on his site. Censorship is unamerican (well OK, he's in Canada <g>).

Ever notice how many posts are locked or deleted over there? It's astounding. Let's bring folks over here (it's a far better site and the forum software since the update seems rock solid).
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: digitaldog on March 22, 2006, 07:17:15 pm
So it seems the Galbraith forums are down. Coincidence or bad garma?
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: DarkPenguin on March 22, 2006, 08:10:29 pm
Were you one of the "crazy people" RG mentions?
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: digitaldog on March 22, 2006, 08:10:47 pm
Another good site for pro's (which unfortunately doesn't get much traffic) is the PDN site. They too are discussing the Galbraith censorship issues:

http://www.pdngallery.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ulti...ic;f=5;t=001988 (http://www.pdngallery.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=001988)
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: digitaldog on March 22, 2006, 08:26:31 pm
Quote
Were you one of the "crazy people" RG mentions?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=60833\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Who me? I didn't see any post about "Crazy People" although I'm pretty crazy <g>

I can't even get onto the forums know. Are they down?
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: stevenrk on March 22, 2006, 08:38:37 pm
Agree so strongly with what has been said.  As someone listening in, it was often a fascinating conversation.  Genuinely challenging and illuminating on so many fronts.   A conversation amongst a group making photographs all over the world that was well spirited (and hope sometimes pun intended), thoughtful, insightful, and often inspiring.  Quite stunning.  

As I can read here, the loss even greater for other working photographers who had found an oasis of reason and solid advice -- with often astounding work to back it up -- to the most complex of questions in a profession seemingly growing ever more complex and opaque.

And such a needless loss.  And agree with James Russell that we shouldn't ascribe improper motives to anyone.  Bad judgement, yes.

I think Michael's offer is a very generous one.  To the extent a separate forum is set up on LL -- rather than just seeing if people will migrate to the existing ones here -- I would add my voice to hoping that it is not one open only to a select list of pros.  Certainly, one can appreciate the temptation to do just that.  But, I think the RG forum at its best benefitted greatly -- was enriched -- by the voice of amateurs, students, and just plain people enjoying such a high level of discussion, thought, images.  Without us and that mix (I include myself in at least a couple of these categories) I think it would have been a less interesting conversation.  Less interesting, not in terms of technical information or questions of technique, but for the contribution of the different perspectives, and on occasion interesting questions that a pro wouldn't have thought of or had the time to ask -- but once engaged found value in both the question and the conversation about it.  Besides the fact that it seemed that part of the pleasure of it for those who contributed most was how many they were engaging and teaching.  And certainly appreciated tremendously for the many of us listening in and gaining knowledge and inspiration from the spirited banter.  

Steven
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: digitaldog on March 22, 2006, 08:49:32 pm
Censorship is just wrong. I'm seriously considering putting a link to this and the other sites that have discussed Rob's inappropriate behavior on my web site (I get a few thousands hits a week). Or maybe emailing his sponsors. Or should I just ignore this bonehead?
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: davaglo on March 22, 2006, 09:19:11 pm
I would like to also request that the forum be open. As a novice I have been able read and glean nuggets of information about this hobby that I have not gotten anywhere else. I have read a plethera of books and magazines, the knowledge that they impart does not have the depth that this forum gives me. I may not be able to sit around the table and discuss the professional techniques but I do get to stand behind you and listen, and once in awhile ask a pedestrian question which someone is kind enough to answer.

Jerry
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: DarkPenguin on March 22, 2006, 09:53:50 pm
Quote
Who me? I didn't see any post about "Crazy People" although I'm pretty crazy <g>

I can't even get onto the forums know. Are they down?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=60835\")

The forums are up for me.

Quote
For those of you that missed it, last week we posted an administrative notice here in which we made it clear that the forum rules would once again fully apply to this topic area. This was after a several month period in which some really great discussion about medium format digital photography, as well as the craft and business of photography in general, was regularly being stomped on by a small but vocal minority of, well, crazy people.

And unfortunately, the crazy people were winning. In fact, they were outstripping our ability to try and keep the area free and clear for the useful discussion. The situation wasn't helped by the number of normally calm members that were getting caught up in the frenzy. By the middle of last week, we realized our attempt to try a more hands-off approach in this topic area had failed.

*etc etc*

[a href=\"http://forums.robgalbraith.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=413268&an=0&page=0#413268]Thread at RG's.[/url]
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: ddolde on March 22, 2006, 10:02:07 pm
Quote
Censorship is just wrong. I'm seriously considering putting a link to this and the other sites that have discussed Rob's inappropriate behavior on my web site (I get a few thousands hits a week). Or maybe emailing his sponsors. Or should I just ignore this bonehead?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=60838\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Attack him fido.  Kill. Maim.
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on March 23, 2006, 12:17:16 am
I hadn't visited RG's forum in quite a while, but this thread piqued my interest (like ambulance chasing). I had no trouble getting in and saw that there is still somewhat of a thread about MF digital. I also read Rob's disclaimer/apology/rant(?) as quoted by Dark Penguin, which prompted me to read his Forum Rules, too.

I sure wouldn't want to get pulled over by his Forum Cops, so I think I'll stay away.

Since I've been perusing the LL forum, there have certainly been a few disagreements that have become a little heated, but they tend to be short-lived, and people are generally pretty good about clarifying their points, and even apologizing if they have inadvertently offended someone.

And the bad apples (and, I should add, "bad pc's", so I'm not slamming one brand . . .      ) generally go away pretty quickly. The discussions tend to be 97% quite civilized, and generally very informative. Perhaps one of the reasons Michael's generally hands-off approach to forum oversight works so well is that there are a number of long-time regulars who will offer reasonably tactful (but never wishy-washy) warnings to posters who overstep the bounds of civillity. To me this really feels like a community of friends --- and friends can disagree without getting disagreeable about it!

I'm sorry for the RG regulars who have now apparently lost some good people.

Long live LL!!  

Eric
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: James Russell on March 23, 2006, 01:54:10 am
I love the "Crazy People" quote.

Really do.

Actually let me look this up on google.

cra·zy   Audio pronunciation of "crazy" ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (krz)
adj. cra·zi·er, cra·zi·est

   1. Affected with madness; insane.
   2. Informal. Departing from proportion or moderation, especially:
       

I guess it fits, at least partially #1, most definatley #2.

You have to be crazy to do this for a living.  Huge overhead, lots of vairable,s massive hours and all the time being judged by a few little pictures.

I just flew across country sitting next to a guy my age that just sold his real estate company.

Sold it for bank.  Has one year left on the contract and he is off to Miami or Capri or someplace that rich good looking tan people hang out.

I thought wow, now that's how to do it . . . work hard and sell it for bank.

He asked me what I did and I told him and he wanted to see some photographs so I handed him my I-pod and he went nuts showing it to his associates, saying wow what a life.

I just laughed and said yea maybe it looks interesting, but you will probably end your days lying in the sun with those little chilled cucumbers on your eyes while some guy named Rolf sparys you with Evian, but me, I'll check out in some dirty mud puddle downtown, holding a camera in my hand and telling the first assistant to make sure these shots get on the web site.

Ok, that's the last comment from me on crazy people.

Now to forums, cameras, photography.

You know I see posts all the time from people that I would swear don't like me.  I may rebut them, disagree with them, but I really like the exchange of thought.

The value of any forum is the sharing, then the knowledge, then the exchange of thought.

If we all just wanted knowledge we would only read the manuals and never talk to anyone.

It's the human interaction, good and bad that keeps it interesting.

All IMO

JR
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: Gandalf on March 23, 2006, 03:04:28 am
Well I think I'll be hanging out here a lot more often. Like Michael R. I came to the RG house cleaning party a bit late, but since the last of the brain trust is gone, no point hanging around a stale party.

Although I have had an account on here for long enough to have to reregister after a few crashes, hacks and moves I have not posted much because I always got what I needed at RG and much as I hate to admit it, my landscape photography time has severely dwindled over the past few years (right about the time that the monthly critiques went away).

Michael, thanks for letting us hang out here and saving us from [this post has been edited by Rob Galbraith].
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: Rick_Allen on March 23, 2006, 05:57:45 am
Cant see the forest for the trees over there. There loss.... any other consoling cliches.....
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: digitaldog on March 23, 2006, 09:03:55 am
Quote
Attack him fido.  Kill. Maim.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=60847\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I prefer "Crush-Kill-Destroy"

I got back on the fourms as a lurker and did get to see Rob's post about crazy people. Load of BS and more propaganda. I hope he doesn't really believe that nonsense.
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: Paul Jameson on March 23, 2006, 09:50:58 am
Hello All! I'm new here now, I hope I am welcome and look forward to getting to know you all.

I was banned from another site (without warning) in that recent string of events. I made a post asking why all these threads had been deleted and was instantly banned.


It was like I was wearing a Boy George outfit at a Klan rally or something.


All that censorship leads me to question the authenticity of any information on that site. It appears they have too much to protect or hide.

It appears to me that that forum is there to build a "certain somebodys" name, however he seems to care little for the opinions and expressions for those that are there building his name unless they are in a very strict keeping with his own.

I for one couldn't care less for any site which chooses to reduce my craft and passion to a mere self serving, commercial pack horse where no one can speak their mind. I would rather pull my own teeth.

On a highly positive note, I think all this backlash only shows me the strength of the photogrpahic comunity in challenging times of the greatest change we have ever seen in our (well at least mine!) lives (ie-digital revolution). It's refreshing to see that sponsors are not in control, at the end of the day and that we don't want to be a part of "the third mall from the sun". The truth is not hidden at all.

Best Wishes to you all and I'm very happy to have found you  
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: Nigelfrommanchester on March 23, 2006, 09:54:47 am
As I explained at the top of the thread I'm sad to see what has happened, but I don't see much point in the tirades against Rob Galbraith. Everyone has sat around his coffee table for months/ years and had a great time there. It was good of him to invite us all in because he didn't have to, he chose to. If he makes money out of it then its a 'win-win' isn't it?

I suspect that most people over the years have offended at least one friend by email without intending to. Its even easier with people you don't know and haven't met. Taking offence can be even easier.  

In Rob's ammended post he himself says (and I'm paraphasing) that he may not of made the intervention in the right way, and that he regrets at least some of the consequences. He's still providing a great service free of charge to users; I still visit there most days along with LL and Fred Miranda. The time I spend in each one just depends on who's turned up and what they have to say.

So, lets recommence sharing information with a little banter.

Oh, and apologies if I've offended anyone.  

Nigel
nigelatkinson.biz (http://nigelatkinson.biz)
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: John Camp on March 23, 2006, 10:10:44 am
There are a number of people posting on the MF forums at Galbraith's that I'd hate to lose track of; if they'd settle here, that'd be great. If they settle somewhere else, I hope they let us know where.

The best forums that I've been on, or that I've read (like this one and the rangefinder forum) have always had unspoken agreements that we'll be adults -- and that includes understanding that there'll be some disagreements, and occasional harsh words, and so on, but also to understand that we don't let it get out of control. Recently on the rangefinder forum, a thread seemed to be getting out of control, and members gently hijacked it with a discussion of fine wines, and absolutely killed off the dispute. No rebuke, but the point was made.

What happened at the Galbraith forum (which I still read on occasion) was odd, to say the least. Most sites would kill to have Russell and Tucker and Schewe and digitaldog and the other guys on-board. I've have no ambitions in pro photography at all, but to see some of these guys answering questions from struggling beginner-pros was pretty inspiring; it's like the best of what the net was supposed to be for.

Hope they stop here. I'd like to see Michael post his "ultimate system" shootout and then have those guys comment on it. (Along with comments from some pretty good guys who already come here.) That'd be worth a book by itself...

JC
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: kmanphoto on March 23, 2006, 11:09:27 am
is the place to hang out now ????? or what???
personnaly  i feel if RG is going to police his joint that way - it is his choice
but with every action there is a reaction
so now maybe LL is the "place" to be now

thanks
Kent
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: Fritzer on March 23, 2006, 12:26:20 pm
Hello there,

Another RG forum refugee here, ...

First of all, kudos to Michael for allowing for this sort of discussion; I used to moderate a few fora myself, and, frankly, some of the comments in this thread I would have chosen to 'edit' ....

That said, Rob and his Cerberus Mike seem to be not too familiar with the way an internet community works; you just can't run it like a boot camp and treat grown-ups like that.
The MF crowd on that message board is the most mature and civilized community I ever came across, apart from the moderators, that is  , I believe the measures taken were absolutely uncalled for.

I managed to get banned from RG's four times in only a few weeks, without warning, for reasons I yet have to grasp.

Anyways, I truely hope this forum or some other place ( no offence, Michael  ) will become a replacement for the unique, but no longer admissible MF digital message board at RG's .

For some reason, there are hardly any places online for advertising pros to hang out and chat, and one of them has just been shut down, sort of ....

Best,
Thomas
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: Bobtrips on March 23, 2006, 03:01:02 pm
Perhaps it's time to close off this thread and start talking about cameras and photography.



Just a thought....
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: Paul Jameson on March 23, 2006, 03:06:26 pm
Quote
You know I see posts all the time from people that I would swear don't like me.  I may rebut them, disagree with them, but I really like the exchange of thought.

The value of any forum is the sharing, then the knowledge, then the exchange of thought.

If we all just wanted knowledge we would only read the manuals and never talk to anyone.

It's the human interaction, good and bad that keeps it interesting.

All IMO

JR
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=60856\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]




(((((((applause)))))))

IMO x 2
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: michael on March 23, 2006, 05:41:33 pm
I think that everything that needs to be said on this topic, likely has been.

Now, back to MF / digital.

Michael
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: AndreNapier on March 28, 2006, 05:20:44 pm
I am happy to be able to post here. I am the newest "CRAZY" from Rob's site.  I got banned today March 28 2006 because.......
So, Hello new friends, I am a 6 years DB user, I hope I found a new home here.
www.AndreNapier.com
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: digitaldog on March 28, 2006, 09:08:05 pm
Quote
I got banned today March 28 2006 because.......

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=61213\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Welcome to an ever increasing club.
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: Gustavo_Marx on March 29, 2006, 01:28:25 pm
Me too!
I got banned on March 17th after I said that Mark's and James's ghosts were around
inspiring us with their thoughts.
But I sent them an email asking why and they put me back.

Anyway I believe after my post here I'll be banned for good.

Gustavo
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: eronald on March 29, 2006, 07:26:06 pm
Hi, guys -

 I'm here too. Happy to see James here, unhurt - let's go and get Mark and continue where we left off ...

Edmund
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: heyandy on March 29, 2006, 09:40:18 pm
Quote
Hi, guys -

 I'm here too. Happy to see James here, unhurt - let's go and get Mark and continue where we left off ...

Edmund
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=61317\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'm not banned at RG (yet), but am glad to find things picking up here.  Andrew, your generous contributions to many public forums were a significant part of an invaluable resource for me back in the days when not many people were shooting digitally...  Your voice always seemed to rise above the nonsense.  I'm amazed that RG would have banned you - I just assumed you went elsewhere on your own.  

I'd like to see a general shop-talk or watercooler type of forum opened here to give a space for threads that don't necessarily fit the specific topics already here.  Just a thought...
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: digitaldog on March 30, 2006, 09:08:40 am
What's most interesting is the number of times this post has been read (to date, over 4500 viewings). I wonder how the numbers are over on RG since this all started. I'd also love to know what Rob's true agenda is. Unlike this site and these forums, it's not about gathering people to discuss imaging! So ironic considering that one silly post here about this site and commercialism. That's so far from the truth. The Galbraith forums and site appear to all be about commercialism hence the need for severe censorship.
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: mtomalty on March 31, 2006, 01:36:11 am
Quote
What's most interesting is the number of times this post has been read (to date, over 4500 viewings).


I think this number reflects nothing more peole trolling for gossip and controversy.

There's really no point to it and, unfortunately, many  interesting threads here sit
idle for days.

MT
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: lonna.tucker on March 31, 2006, 09:51:10 am
Quote
I think this number reflects nothing more peole trolling for gossip and controversy.

There's really no point to it and, unfortunately, many  interesting threads here sit
idle for days.

MT
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=61408\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I respectfully agree with Mark, and don't want to offend those with their reasons for leaving RG. I wish whatever happened - hadn't.

The Rob Galbraith forum is still the best site for professionals and the moderation keeps it that way IMO. Their forum format is still the best. It is the easiest to scan for information, see who is posting, what's new, etc.

Lonna Tucker
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: Fritzer on March 31, 2006, 02:41:47 pm
Quote
I think this number reflects nothing more peole trolling for gossip and controversy.

There's really no point to it and, unfortunately, many  interesting threads here sit
idle for days.

MT
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=61408\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

With all due respect, this whole forum section sat idle from the beginning, but started picking up after that RG incident   .

The RG MF forum archive remains the #1 source for everything Digital Back for the time being, but has lost it's most resourceful contributers, judging by the postings made in the past few weeks.

What you find here are people searching for an alternative place to discuss the professional use of high end digital capture, preferably run by more capable moderators.
Such a thing simply doesn't exist right now, thus the overwhelming interest in the topic.

I don't think RG and Mike should be compared to a certain German right wing party of the forties or blamed of being a slave of their advertisers, I believe it comes down to poor judgement, a lack of experience in online discussions and the guts to admit and correct a mistake.

This way they destroyed a unique and lively international community of DB users, and there is no replacement in sight at the moment.

Best,
Thomas
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: KenRexach on March 31, 2006, 08:33:35 pm
Hi all!

Im also a frequent RobG Forum poster and was totally surprised by what happened with JR and MT.

One day there was a great MFDB discussion, the next gone and their names removed from every post they ever made there. Unreal.

Although no discussion is free from some degree of subjectivity (for whatever reason, buyers justifying their purchase unconciously, brand loyalty etc even if its slight) a LOT of facts about the somewhat "mysterious" MFDB's were revealed there along with a lot of insight from actual users. (that in it self is rare since most people who talk about X piece of gear on the net probably have never actually used it other than maybe handling it at a store)

Then, they were censored! wow. That is such an extreme measure for something that im sured couldve been resolved by talking.

I am starting to beleive that MFDB mfg's are purposely trying to stomp these discussions. I understand that they might be afraid of unfounded slander and misinformation but the RG forums are far from being like the out of control DPR forums or others out there. Maybe MFDB mfg's dont want us to know much about their products other than what they tell us even from credible sources (maybe "they" are more afraid of those). But the Forums serve a purpose.

Thanks to the Forums I didnt buy a Kodak 14n or SLRn (we know what disaster that camera was, its extintion probably accelerated by internet discussions no question despite Kodak's continous efforts to try to fix it and being a very good camera within its capability) and steered away from shady broklyn retailers.

Im glad I found you guys again!
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: med007 on March 31, 2006, 11:58:53 pm
Quote
Censorship is just wrong. I'm seriously considering putting a link to this and the other sites that have discussed Rob's inappropriate behavior on my web site (I get a few thousands hits a week). Or maybe emailing his sponsors. Or should I just ignore this bonehead?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=60838\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Andrew,

I write as one who has learned so much from all of you and tried to handle with care and patience, people who where struggling with issues I have mastered.

Nowhere on the web was such a stellar international collection of generous color, fashion, commercial, landscape and other experts joking, ribbing one another and challenging marketing mythology by telling the truth as expeirence dictates.

Rather lonely, over the river, stands one lone man, testing and reporting on DB's in his own eccentric way. His opinions too are eclectic, but he merelly struggles like we all do to do his job well and be honest.

Now, the circle is completed, and everyone is together here.

I must say that on RG forum, where extoling the Leica DMR, outing a dishonest event stealer  or mentioning J.C. caused dismissal. However, the repeated posting of vile ethnocentric phraseology almost quoted from the most notorious texts, concerning the pious orthodox man in the famous di Ciorica case, was given a free pass. Still, RG did allow my posts..to date.

DPReview was THE premier site then success made it grow commercial and many were driven off. I believe that colorful talk is expected with unique successful photographers. This society actually polices itself, because ill-informed comments get exposed as such.

I'm happy to say I have never dissed MR!

Asher
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: med007 on April 01, 2006, 12:41:25 am
Quote
Still, RG did allow my posts..to date.

Asher
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=61480\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Oops, spoke too fast! I have now been banned too it seems!

Well, I have written to Mike Sturk to get a reason, but I guess, they are following this thread!

It's something like getting knighted! Hit by a sword and honored at the same time!!

Asher:)
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: Henry Goh on April 01, 2006, 01:16:46 am
.....walks in with a wooden stool in one hand and a cup of coffee in the other....sits down.....
I'm so glad to find you guys again!  I have always lurked and read your posts on RG so here I am again... to lurk and learn.

Please carry on....



...slurps up coffee drip at edge of mouth....

Henry
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: ericevans on April 01, 2006, 02:19:52 am
Quote
Gailbraith and company have lost a few great contributors due to their severe lack of humor and Nazi like posture.   

They don't realize that their forum is sucessful BECAUSE of the interesting people who post there.   Otherwise it's just a blank page.

Who needs Gailbraith anyway?  They ban the people who write something useful and knowledgeable then keep the ones who know little or nothing.   I suggest boycotting his forums.

Or better yet send him an honest email about how you see this then quit.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=60652\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
This is my first post here and I hope this forum can pick up where RG left off . Someone asked today where James and Mark had went and I posted a response and got the boot as well . RG for a while had a lot of great info until the best posters were banned or left . I posted a comment today that said that the great forum was ruined because the owners and moderators think too highly of themselves and that they were driven by money and that they are nothiong without posters . I think I will just hang out here from now on .
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: med007 on April 01, 2006, 08:43:21 pm
Well, im reinstated, unblocked and unlocked!

Well, maybe the thunderstorm will pass.

Who else is persona-grata?

Asher
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: izaack on April 03, 2006, 03:09:31 pm
Given the shoddy treatment handed out to JR, MT and others, why would you want to go back?
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: James Russell on April 04, 2006, 02:22:33 am
Quote
Given the shoddy treatment handed out to JR, MT and others, why would you want to go back?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=61677\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Nobody wishes bad on those RG forums, at least not in public.  (Insert smiley face here.)

It is amazing to me the number of like minded people that want to talk, share, exchange viewpoints, but for so many reasons just are not comfortable doing it in public.  The recent events pretty much illustrate why someone would be hesitant.

What most of us wanted was an outlet to talk and learn about more than just cameras, or sensors, but when you step back and look at it, the medium format area of a technical forum really isn't the envrioment  to do this.

The problem is only talking techique, without a human side gets pretty boring, pretty quick.

In a way it's a shame because the wealth of knowledge that passes through my e-mails is really amazing and many of the people I never would have met, if it were not for public forums.

It also amazes me that so many people that are edited or deleated on those forums are some of the largest purchasers of digital equipment.

Logcially, you would think a commercial forum would love that level of participation.

JR
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: awofinden on April 04, 2006, 09:24:56 am
I was banned a few months ago as I didn't realise that you had to use your real name to post, I hadn't read the fine print. I wanted to use a different name as I realised that a google search on my name returned results of me posting about how I had problems with my camera, not what you want a client to see ideally speaking. Anyhow, I realise that I broke the rules of the forum, fine, I would have changed my username, however the moderator was unbeleavably rude to me so I told him to stuff it. A little bit of human decency goes a long way and I'm glad that his forum has paid the price of his unpleasant manner. I am however saddened that us the users have lost out also.
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: ronno on April 04, 2006, 11:03:52 am
If this dearth of a place to chill for pros keeps up, I am going to start one myself. And I agree, it should not be strictly a tech forum.

No one wanted to post in Rob’s “commercial/advertising/industrial”  section for some reason. Wonder why?

Perhaps the pro area should require some credentials before posting, like Canon’s CPS? (although Rob’s site never needed this, and the users seemed to do a pretty good job of weeding out the riff raff on their own…)
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: bwpuk on April 04, 2006, 12:25:21 pm
Like many other people I've been saddened by the silly behaviour by the moderators at the RG forum. These guys gave all this information for free. It was hard won no-nonsense professional advice and opinion, for all to share and absorb.

The people who are going to suffer are those that run that forum. All that will happen is that everybody that was banned will go somewhere else along with the hundreds of photographers that logged on and read their posts. For me it was required reading several times a day. It was the one place where you could be certain of unbiased professional information free of the bull**** that you get from a dealer behaving like a second hand car dealer trying to sell you a flawed MFDB solution.

If the moderators wanted to keep a tight ship then they should have applied their rules as stuff got posted that they didn't like, not wait until a thread developed after a few weeks. I am suspicious of their behaviour in this regard, maybe this is what they wanted. By doing it the way they did they have got rid of all the highly talented guys that were critical of certain bits of gear and software and weren't afraid to say so. If there was a hidden agenda how can anyone have confidence in any reviews that get posted on the RG site.

Mark, James and all the rest, where are you guys ?  I miss my daily fix !
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: mediahound on April 04, 2006, 03:13:01 pm
There are things that can be done. For example, writing to the advertisers on the RG site, explaining what happend and that you feel they should be aware of what they are supporting, etc.
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: eronald on April 04, 2006, 04:48:29 pm
Quote
If the moderators wanted to keep a tight ship then they should have applied their rules as stuff got posted that they didn't like, not wait until a thread developed after a few weeks. I am suspicious of their behaviour in this regard, maybe this is what they wanted. By doing it the way they did they have got rid of all the highly talented guys that were critical of certain bits of gear and software and weren't afraid to say so. If there was a hidden agenda how can anyone have confidence in any reviews that get posted on the RG site.

Mark, James and all the rest, where are you guys ?  I miss my daily fix !
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=61764\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'm still waiting for Mark to show up ...


I expressed a number of opinions critical of several of the big brands that RG himself writes good things about, and I never suffered for it in any way - so I do not believe in a commercial conspiracy here - has anyone considered that some people of a religious bent might have complained ?

Edmund
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: Kumar on April 04, 2006, 06:32:43 pm
Michael Kravit, an architect and photographer who has always participated in a  mature and professional manner on the RG forums, has just had a thread deleted. Michael was away on a job for 10 days, and asked where Mark was and BOOM, the axe fell.

Is that a Pavlovian thing? The mere mention of Mark, even in a perfectly normal, civilized manner sets them off foaming at the mouth?

So, can we end the mourning, and start hanging around the water-cooler again?

Kumar
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: mediahound on April 04, 2006, 06:47:57 pm
My www.robgalbraith.com account was deleted/blocked simply because I said in one of the forums that some people have been deleted lately. Boom, as soon as I said that, I too was a goner.

Rob Galbraith and Mike Sturk have some real problems and frankly, are total jerks.
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: eronald on April 04, 2006, 06:51:47 pm
Quote
My RG account was deleted/blocked simply because I said in one of the forums that some people have been deleted lately. Boom, as soon as I said that, I too was a goner.

Rob Galbraith and Mike Sturk have some real problems and frankly, are totally jerks.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=61819\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Anyway, I'm still interested in all this MF stuff, I think there is som eMF kit in my future - I could almost imagine getting an Aptus 65 for my SWC ...

Edmund
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: William_Good on April 04, 2006, 07:32:12 pm
I don't find the response here regarding "RG banning"  frivolous in any way.
The confusion and frustration  speaks volumes.
In looking back at the threads in RG medium format forum, I see a high level of discusssion between professionals, which I personally felt was an infomation goldmine. I saw nothing "crazy". ....But I guess those threads have been deleted..... ; )

In the aftermath, Its absurd !!! that well meaning photogs have been deleted or banned for JUST asking about or discussing banning......

Well kudos to ML & all at luminous for letting us express ourselves.
Perhaps this forum will benefit from "migrating" talent & experience.

William
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: digitaldog on April 04, 2006, 08:46:39 pm
Quote
There are things that can be done. For example, writing to the advertisers on the RG site, explaining what happend and that you feel they should be aware of what they are supporting, etc.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=61780\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That's an excellent idea! Even if we all sign a single "form" letter. Count me in.
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: mediahound on April 04, 2006, 11:11:07 pm
soon, there will be zero users left over there:

http://forums.robgalbraith.com/showflat.ph...=0&fpart=1&vc=1 (http://forums.robgalbraith.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=417721&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1)


Just Rob and Mike left twiddling each others thumbs.

Everyone is leaving in droves and word is getting around in the pro and consumer photo communities that www.robgalbraith.com is a place to avoid and not support. Their advertisers will be catching on shortly and I encourage everyone to write to the advertisers. I did.
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: Bruce Wilson on April 05, 2006, 12:15:50 am
After reading this thread I feel like I'm the last one to finally figure out where everyone went! I've been on RG site for 3 or 4 years and have found it to be the best, until last month. It's great to see so many names of people I feel like I know are here on this site. I could'nt figure out where they all went! Now when I go to the "Medium Format Digital" forum on RG it shows about 3 to 4 people viewing. Sad, but at least I think I have found a new home for learning and sharing from some great photographers.

Bruce
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: free1000 on April 05, 2006, 03:47:59 am
Just joined LL this morning... not banned yet from RG.

But I think Michael Kravit is now sailing close to the wind and a number of us have supported his views.

I think RG is the crazy one for being willing to lose so many excellent contributors.  (I don't think that this language is immoderate, given his own comments).

I am now really close to my MFDB purchase and I wouldnt be where I was without the help of quite a few of the banned people.

Perhaps the manufacturers should talk to RG about his policy as it is doing their business no good at all.

It may only be a rumour that the presence of advertisers has influenced the moderation on that forum. Either way, the rumour will happen simply because of the presence of advertising.

Overall the vendors are helped immensely by open forums. Sure. If a particular product   does not come up to the mark, then an open forum will savagely attack it. But then the vendor knows instantly what the market perception is, and can put it right.

And in any case. There are as many positions and opinions on different products are there are photographers. Manufacturers can only gain from openness if their products are up to scratch.

It would probably be hurtful to me to read a forum full of my ex-clients views of me! But boy would it help me improve my work and my business.

Anyway... to quote

"The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn, like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes "Awww!”"
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: digitaldog on April 05, 2006, 05:05:29 pm
Quote
soon, there will be zero users left over there:

http://forums.robgalbraith.com/showflat.ph...=0&fpart=1&vc=1 (http://forums.robgalbraith.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=417721&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=61842\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

What a shock, seems that post is gone. Those boys are busy as ever.
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: David Kern on April 05, 2006, 05:19:08 pm
Quote
What a shock, seems that post is gone. Those boys are busy as ever.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=61939\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I believe I was a party to that post. Michael Kravit was asking where everyone had gone. There were some other posts expressing interest also. I posted that a lot of us have ended up here. Also wrote a PM to Michael in case he didn't get back to the thread before it disappeared. Woke up this morning and the thread was gone. Presto! Like magic.


David
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: Kumar on April 05, 2006, 06:11:35 pm
Well, this morning I found that I was banned for participating in that thread. In response to Michael Kravit's post, I had written that we are all guests in RG's forums, and one guest could ask why one of the other guests had left. Apparently you can't ask that question..

Kumar
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: ddolde on April 05, 2006, 08:21:17 pm
Yea Kravit got kicked off this am.  I was amazed that thread lasted as long as it did.  For a while I though RG and MS (is that Mrs. G) had gone soft.
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: mcfoto on April 05, 2006, 10:32:08 pm
Quote from: James Russell,Mar 23 2006, 01:54 AM
I love the "Crazy People" quote.

Really do.

Actually let me look this up on google.

cra·zy   Audio pronunciation of "crazy" ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (krz)
adj. cra·zi·er, cra·zi·est

   1. Affected with madness; insane.
   2. Informal. Departing from proportion or moderation, especially:
       
Hi James
Glad you are back really missed your posts on RG. So I just joined this one.

Thanks Denis Montalbetti  
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: rethmeier on April 07, 2006, 04:47:18 pm
Dennis,
good to see you here as well!
Willem.
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: eric_may on April 07, 2006, 05:25:10 pm
I just signed up for this forum too and also just sent an email to the admin over at RG asking to delete my account.  Hopefully he will do this!!  I too would love to sign a letter to send to these advertisers who are currently supporting RG
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: digitaldog on April 07, 2006, 05:30:53 pm
Quote
I just signed up for this forum too and also just sent an email to the admin over at RG asking to delete my account.  Hopefully he will do this!!  I too would love to sign a letter to send to these advertisers who are currently supporting RG
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=62113\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

They have a new trick. They must have spotted my IP address and I can't log on (well of course I can, I have multiple ways of getting on the web). Anyway, if we can get a list together of the advertisers to hit, I'd be willing to draft a letter. In fact, I leave tomorrow for the WPPI show. Not sure if anyone of any stature will be there representing his advertisers but heck, they need to know that censorship at this level is un-American (or un-whatever country you wish to use). Time for the "scorched earth" tactics. <G>
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: foamx on April 07, 2006, 06:25:50 pm
Quote
I just signed up for this forum too and also just sent an email to the admin over at RG asking to delete my account. Hopefully he will do this!! I too would love to sign a letter to send to these advertisers who are currently supporting RG

good luck with that.  I sent 2 mails asking politely to be removed and was ignored until I went on the forum and asked to be removed publicly.  I'm convinced that they were doing some kind of damage control by ignoring private email requests so that the exodus seemed smaller than it actually was.

Lawrence
http://www.lawrencesmithphotography.com (http://www.lawrencesmithphotography.com)
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: digitaldog on April 07, 2006, 06:46:49 pm
Quote
I'm convinced that they were doing some kind of damage control by ignoring private email requests so that the exodus seemed smaller than it actually was.
http://www.lawrencesmithphotography.com (http://www.lawrencesmithphotography.com)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=62119\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

As long as the exodus is larger, we win.
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: eric_may on April 07, 2006, 08:02:31 pm
I guess I am going to have to go for a post to see if I can't just get kicked out...... Might as well make a public statement.....
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: Dennishh on April 09, 2006, 10:45:16 pm
RG has been so boring without all you "banned ones"!!! I think I will go back and post about the creative exodus and get banned to. We should be able to say any dame thing we like about photography, or what's left of it. It makes my day to find this site.
Dennis
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: mkravit on April 10, 2006, 08:54:31 pm
As most know my initial post was deleted from RG, my next post was deleted and I was banned. A pity but the loss of these wonderul guys like Russell and Tucker, etc is really RG's loss not ours.

I have been very busy with work so I have not posted much. LL is a wonderful forum and I appreciate MR for allowing us the space to congregate ;-)

My suggestion is to leave RG alone.  Being vendictive and writing to his advertisers is not productive and certainly not worth our time. My suggestion would be to build the interest here and make this forum the place where MFDB users really want to be.

Michael
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: robbegibson on April 15, 2006, 04:01:49 pm
Well,it looks like RGforums has some other problems. As of today, they're not accepting new posts and the forums are for sale.

Too bad, really.

Robbe Gibson


Quote
....
I have been very busy with work so I have not posted much. LL is a wonderful forum and I appreciate MR for allowing us the space to congregate ;-)

My suggestion is to leave RG alone.  Being vendictive and writing to his advertisers is not productive and certainly not worth our time. My suggestion would be to build the interest here and make this forum the place where MFDB users really want to be.

Michael
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=62321\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: digitaldog on April 15, 2006, 06:52:43 pm
Quote
Well,it looks like RGforums has some other problems. As of today, they're not accepting new posts and the forums are for sale.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=62637\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Cool! They did it to themselves. Lets hope to see some of the original gang from the forums over here.

Can't say this isn't the best news I've heard today <g>. Nice to see Rob and Mike implode under their own doing.
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: BernardLanguillier on April 15, 2006, 07:20:04 pm
Quote
Well,it looks like RGforums has some other problems. As of today, they're not accepting new posts and the forums are for sale.

Too bad, really.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=62637\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Yep, that's a real pity.

The value is in the community, and that is probably mostly lost forever.

Regards,
Bernard
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: stevenrk on April 15, 2006, 07:25:02 pm
Quote
Well,it looks like RGforums has some other problems. As of today, they're not accepting new posts and the forums are for sale.

Too bad, really.

Robbe Gibson
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=62637\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I agree with you Rob.  It was a loss all around.  No need to repeat what I said earlier in this thread, but even though this is a very good forum of itself, the RG MF forum was for a brief moment quite an amazing spot.

And I liked that people had to use their real names rather screen names.  I think that added a level to the dialog and spirit of that forum, and hope we can start doing the same here.

Steven Kinberg
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: plugsnpixels on April 15, 2006, 08:50:41 pm
I'm a regular visitor to many Photoshop and photography-related forums (working off my list at http://www.plugsnpixels.com/links.html) (http://www.plugsnpixels.com/links.html)), and I even managed to post at the RG forums 8 times recently without getting banned! (Should I be embarrassed-?)

During my visit there today while making the rounds I read the news of the closure, and then found this and related threads which helped explain the reason. Too bad. I wonder how the sale will go?

More to the point, I work in higher education (IT Consultant, Mac labs) and we recently bought a Leaf MF digital back for students to use in our photo studio with 4x5 and Hasselblad, believe it or not (let's take bets on how long it will last!). How do you guys feel about the Leaf 10.0.0 software? I found some dopey bugs that were confirmed by the dealer here in LA. IMHO, and I have not used the back much myself, but judging by what I have seen others go through when shooting tethered, I think shooting straight to CF and editing later in Camera RAW seems a better workflow (aside from the small preview).

In other news, Andrew (digitaldog), please email me about promoting PixelGenius software. I've already got you guys on my website (Jeff sent me some NFR's back in 9/03), but I'd like to add a PhotoKit Color 2.0 promotion to my site's directory and I haven't worked with it (or the earlier version) yet.

Mike
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: rethmeier on April 16, 2006, 12:03:49 am
I was hoping we could bring all the prominent RG posters to start posting here?
I certainly received some great info  and advise on the RG forum.
However I've also become a lot more insecure about certain photographic equipment.
At the end of the day,your own testing is paramount,it can be a be  costly exercise.
Regards,
Willem.
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: SeanFS on April 16, 2006, 12:18:47 am
Nice to see the missing RG members over here . Because they are now closed I have followed. I guess I have been looking at them once a day for five years or more.  The MF forum has been pretty dull lately I have to admit

I have always appreciated the info picked up from those forums whether colour management or the range of new equipment out there.

Just reccently I bought a 1ds2 based on information ( and samples!) from Mark tucker and James Russell - I knew by the time I held it in my hand what any issues were and what I could expect . It went like that all the way back to the  DCS 760 I bought when originally moving over into digital. More recently I have moved to an imacon 132c back but knew exactly what I was getting into before I paid out the not insubstantial  cash.

Andrew Rodney's posts on Colour management was invaluble back then too ( what is a colour profile again?) and much appreciated.
Just the other day thanks to a post and discussion by a member over there I bought  the Dan Margulis book on Photoshop and kicked my knowledge of colour control up another dozen notches.

 Sure the forums got a bit silly on occasion but I thought they were pretty good mostly. Fewer but of far better quality than DP review.

And nice to see problems talked about that seem universal to photography wherever you are working in it.

I expect these forums will be as valuble.
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: free1000 on April 16, 2006, 03:44:49 am
Well that is that then. Thanks to people like Andre Oldani, James Russell, Tim Griffith, Ashley Morrison and many, many more I have managed to complete the arduous task of selecting my route through this technological minefield to the point where I am finally able to make this significant move.  

I really don't know what I would have done without this help. I'm sad to see that resource go, but I guess the sprit of the internet is more alive in this forum. So it will pick up where the other left off.

I'm not convinced that the forum is being sold because of the issue of moderation of the MF forum though! More likely that there is a good profit to be made from selling it. I assume that the buyer needs to convert the old forum content to a new format and that is why they are freezing new posts.
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: Bobtrips on April 16, 2006, 12:07:51 pm
Quote
I'm not convinced that the forum is being sold because of the issue of moderation of the MF forum though! More likely that there is a good profit to be made from selling it. I assume that the buyer needs to convert the old forum content to a new format and that is why they are freezing new posts.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=62692\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


If one had a  forum that they wanted to sell it seems that the best strategy would be to get membership/traffic as high as possible and keep it going while looking for a buyer.

Their strategy seems more like running the tank dry, draining out the oil, letting the air out of the tires, breaking out the glass, and then putting a 'For Sale' sign on the windshield.

---

I haven't followed all this, but didn't it start with someone religious sensitivities being offended?  Would that be the same religion that forbids lying?

Just wondering....
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: Lester on April 16, 2006, 12:37:24 pm
It the knowledge people that make a great forum, kick them off and you will have a so so one.

Their religion is, say good thing about their advertiser and never speak the truth no matter how bad it is.
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: Bob Laughton on April 16, 2006, 02:31:40 pm
Just like to say that I too am now a migrant to this site, having been an RG subscriber in the past - they really did shoot themselves in the foot with their narrow-minded moral attitudes.

No point in me repeating what has already been said on many of the excellent posts above, other than to add that it's a real shame things have panned out the way they have. Although I made my feelings clear to RG at the time that all this nonsense was flying about, I didn't actually manage to get myself banned. I'd like to think it's because my comments were thoughtful and sensible and had a ring of truth - but more probably they weren't provocative enough!

Anyway, it's good to see some familiar names on here - it will only serve to enhance an already superb site. I also opted to use my real name, as I think it's important on many levels, but that's just my personal choice.

Now then - time to start talking photography again . . .

Cheers

Bob
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: CorySilken on April 17, 2006, 05:22:00 pm
Another migrant here...walked over to the water cooler after clocking in this morning and found everybody now huddled around the copier...

I've been participating in the RG site for many years, although more of a lurker recently- spending more time trying to figure out how to make money with equipment I've got, rather than joining y'all playing with new toys.

I was annoyed to see so many of you vanish recently, and very sad now that the forums are effectively gone. Clearly it had been well managed to attract those of us who were there for so long (and keep out the riffraff) and, despite any recent shortcomings, I appreciate having had it and am a better photographer for it.

-C
Studio6x7.com (http://www.studio6x7.com)
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: Walt Roycraft on April 18, 2006, 09:03:48 am
Quote from: CorySilken,Apr 17 2006, 05:22 PM
Another migrant here...

Yes, me too.  

I have really appreciated the RG forum.  I visited the MF digital back and the Kodak site almost everyday.  Sometimes work would get in the way:)

Somehow I missed out on all the wild debate that got people banned.  Whew!

I look forward to belonging to a new community.
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: SeanBK on April 18, 2006, 09:51:18 am
I have my doubts @ what is going over at RG. In medium format forum, lately Uwe from Outback was being a temp. administrator (his name was in green) and was answering all the pertinent questions very well. I do believe the forum will reopen with a different format, but pretty much the subject matter intact (best part). The new format probably will have banner adds from Canon, Phase One, Leaf & other usual suspects AND THERE WILL BE A SUBSCRIPTION FEE!!.
    Isn't that is now a norm, with Getty trying own their Stock portfolio. At PDN one can't read the articles unless you subscribe to mag. May be a portion of forum will be ask the expert, with a subscription fee. So bottom line will be no free exchange of info, and all the self promoted experts will dispense the advises, since market for photographers is getting diminished & cost of new equipment is rising.
    So the photographers are just morphing into.....
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: Henry Goh on April 18, 2006, 10:21:54 am
Post moved to a new topic
HERE (http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=10645)
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: Sfleming on April 18, 2006, 10:37:28 am
Quote
This place is getting nicer everyday.  More old names are coming over so we need to get some contents going to make it even better.  May I be so brave as to get some discussion going?

I am a complete newbie to MF backs although I have shot 4 x 5 and Hasselblads for a long time and Nikon DSLRs for 3 years.  My question to Gurus here is what is the best and most economical way to get into MFDB from this point on?  Of course several years back the entry point must have been different but considering current products as well as decent used products available, what would your advice be?

I shoot mostly portraits and some catalog products in the studio, most of the time, if that is relevant.

Thanks in advance.

Henry
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=62936\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Henry,

Might I sugges starting a new thread with your question?  You will probably have more luck that way.

Scott
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: Henry Goh on April 18, 2006, 12:08:27 pm
Quote
Henry,

Might I sugges starting a new thread with your question?  You will probably have more luck that way.

Scott
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a] (http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=62942\")

You are right Scott.  Thanks and I have moved it [a href=\"http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=10645]HERE[/url]
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: Hendrik on April 18, 2006, 12:37:33 pm
It’s a really sad. I loved the RG forums, although I must say I noticed a decline in quality the last couple of months. Maybe this forum will be a good substitute with the same quality as RG once was. Especially the color management forum was very educating.

I also expect a wave of new members at Fred Miranda; hope not too many before Fred update his forum code.  
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: Fritzer on April 18, 2006, 03:21:44 pm
Quote
The new format probably will have banner adds from Canon, Phase One, Leaf & other usual suspects AND THERE WILL BE A SUBSCRIPTION FEE!!.
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Now that doesn't make much sense; granted, a forum is provided at a cost , but without the contributor's input, there would be no advertisers.
Also, running a message board isn't very expensive - money-wise, that is - especially when you need a host for your website anyways. RG's figures are a little off here, too.

That said, I consider it a little dubious that a message board can be sold, as it's content and popularity depend on the users; even more so if the archives are part of the deal - intellectual property, to name only one issue...

And then pro photographers are supposed to pay for the privilege of sharing their knowledge ?
I don't think so.
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: ddolde on April 18, 2006, 10:35:01 pm
Who the hell cares?  I have forgotten about RG so quit reminding me !
Title: Mourning the loss of a great forum...
Post by: kyle on April 19, 2006, 05:17:55 am
I'm not a regular MF shooter although I do use MF Film equipment from time to time.

I have been considering an MF digital back and found a lot of the information on Rob G's Forum extremely helpful -- stuff from highly respected full time working Professionals with years of experience in the MF arena.  Totally different from a lot of posts on Forums elsewhere which seem to be obviously written by 13 year old wanabbes with nothing else to do with their time.

However the site started going downhill rapidly once it became sponsored and many people got BANNED for posting anything less than STELLAR comments about some of the products made by the sponsors of the site, and others started leaving due to what seemed really heavy handed moderation.

Serious photography is a serious business and certainly in the digital realm there often can be different methods over achieving what we all want - the bset possible result we can provide for ourselvesand our customers.

As such there will always be debates and why not - we all learn a lot from these discussions and it was sad to see the way that particular Forum was going.

Still why not enjoy this place (MR has always had very interesting even if at times controversial articles) and just let the other place R.I.P.

Cheers

-K